[NCSG-PC] Fwd: Re: [Epdp-dt] EPDP Scope
Stephanie Perrin
stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
Tue Jul 17 22:16:31 EEST 2018
We are getting railroaded towards the finish line here. Here is my latest.
SP
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Re: [Epdp-dt] EPDP Scope
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 15:04:19 -0400
From: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>
To: epdp-dt at icann.org
Ok, I will surrender to the will of the group (as usual). Just out of
interest though, who of you who said lets all trust in good faith are
planning to work on the EPDP? there is nothing like eating your own
cooking to improve the drive for perfection.....
The purpose of a well scoped Charter and set of deliverables is to make
the task of the working group clear and simple. I humbly submit, for
the record, that we have left a number of vague terms and timing
criteria in there, and it may cause problems later. A stitch in time
saves nine, as the old proverb says.
Cheers Stephanie Perrin
On 2018-07-17 08:11, Erika Mann wrote:
> This group is tasked with (a) difficult goal(s). I share Pam's concern
> concerning a 'harmonized access' model but this shouldn't prevent this
> group from starting the work.
>
> As long as we keep in mind that we're searching for a WHOIS (access)
> model that is workable - and legally acceptable - in different
> jurisdictions, and as long we don't become orthodox in our approaches,
> we should be able to see a solid outcome emerging.
>
> Heather, framed it well in her last email:
>
> "We need to resist the temptation of usurping the work of the EPDP
> Team. If language is redundant, they will work around it. If it is not
> perfect, we will empower them to refine, and come back to Council with
> questions where necessary. Let's get this team started, and see if
> these last minute issues are truly obstacles to their work."
>
> Kind regards,
> Erika
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 16, 2018, at 9:11 PM, Austin, Donna via Epdp-dt
> <epdp-dt at icann.org <mailto:epdp-dt at icann.org>> wrote:
>
>> Very well said Heather.
>>
>> *From:*Epdp-dt [mailto:epdp-dt-bounces at icann.org] *On Behalf Of
>> *Heather Forrest
>> *Sent:* Monday, July 16, 2018 5:43 PM
>> *To:* Epdp-dt at icann.org <mailto:Epdp-dt at icann.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Epdp-dt] EPDP Scope
>>
>> Colleagues,
>>
>> We have travelled a long distance together, and the small group has
>> worked almost non-stop on the scope for nearly 2 weeks now, up
>> against work and family pressures and the tantalising photos of
>> others' summer family holidays. The weight of the task is pushing us
>> to our limits, and it kills me to see the significant efforts at
>> compromise from Panama and the two weeks since come undone in the
>> final 3 days.
>>
>> We've said many times - but I'll repeat it here as now it's urgent
>> and very real - that the community's perception of the Council's
>> ability to deliver on its Bylaws mandate by running this EPDP is at
>> stake on Thursday. If we are unable to agree on the charter, there is
>> a live risk that Pandora's box opens.
>>
>> We had a text that was fairly stable as of Sunday, based on the
>> timeline that we agreed in the DT call last Wednesday. We need to
>> resist the temptation of usurping the work of the EPDP Team. If
>> language is redundant, they will work around it. If it is not
>> perfect, we will empower them to refine, and come back to Council
>> with questions where necessary. Let's get this team started, and see
>> if these last minute issues are truly obstacles to their work. If we
>> do not get them started, we may never find out. If you are willing to
>> work with the text we have as per Keith's Sunday email and let the
>> Team push forward, now is the time to speak up.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Heather
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 8:21 AM, Pam Little
>> <pam.little at alibaba-inc.com <mailto:pam.little at alibaba-inc.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Paul,
>>
>> Thank you for the feedback.
>>
>> To me, the goal of the Temp Spec and this EPDP effort is very
>> simple: to comply with the law. "Avoid the fragmentation of
>> WHOIS" or the idea of harmonization as a premise or goal is
>> fundamentally flawed. As you know, there is already fragmentation
>> of WHOIS in the cc world. As far as I know, .JP does not even
>> have a WHOIS service.
>>
>> More importantly, I would like to point out the latest
>> guidanceregarding Codes of Conduct and Accreditation in the EDPB
>> letter (see page 6
>> https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/jelinek-to
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_en_system_files_correspondence_jelinek-2Dto&d=DwMFaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=CwipU91YB6EkpFXK9ynnT_QUef4yC5p7jpsDm8cU97g&m=wQW2DCZFumEvcBcjrLYjWHhNX_WnA3nWfj5ZdnjZDak&s=rZ0OyCS9JwuSdabv4b6EZcmL-H0wrXCUaiB5LqM6zRI&e=>-marby-05jul18-en.pdf).
>> Specifically:
>>
>> 1. Certification and/or accreditation are voluntary measures, not
>> mandatory.
>>
>> 2. The responsibility for designing a model that will provide
>> the assurance [of compliance with the GDPR] is, in the first
>> instance, up to the data controllers.
>>
>> The previous langauge and your latest suggested language
>> pre-suppose there should be a "community-wide model for access or
>> similar framework", which in my view, is inconsistent with the
>> above guidance.
>>
>> I hope this explains my thinking for my proposed edits.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Pam
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Sender:Drazek, Keith <kdrazek at verisign.com
>> <mailto:kdrazek at verisign.com>>
>>
>> Sent at:2018 Jul 17 (Tue) 01:58
>>
>> To:PMcGrady at winston.com <mailto:To%3APMcGrady at winston.com>
>> <PMcGrady at winston.com <mailto:PMcGrady at winston.com>>; PAMELA
>> LITTLE <pam.little at alibaba-inc.com
>> <mailto:pam.little at alibaba-inc.com>>; Epdp-dt at icann.org
>> <mailto:Epdp-dt at icann.org> <Epdp-dt at icann.org
>> <mailto:Epdp-dt at icann.org>>; marika.konings at icann.org
>> <mailto:marika.konings at icann.org> <marika.konings at icann.org
>> <mailto:marika.konings at icann.org>>
>>
>> Subject:RE: [Epdp-dt] EPDP Scope
>>
>> Hi Pam and Paul,
>>
>> Attached is an updated version incorporating Pam’s edits and
>> responding to her questions. I incorporated Paul’s suggested
>> language below for Section J.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Keith
>>
>> *From:* McGrady, Paul D. <PMcGrady at winston.com
>> <mailto:PMcGrady at winston.com>>
>> *Sent:* Monday, July 16, 2018 7:37 AM
>> *To:* Pam Little <pam.little at alibaba-inc.com
>> <mailto:pam.little at alibaba-inc.com>>; Epdp-dt at icann.org
>> <mailto:Epdp-dt at icann.org>; marika.konings at icann.org
>> <mailto:marika.konings at icann.org>; Drazek, Keith
>> <kdrazek at verisign.com <mailto:kdrazek at verisign.com>>
>> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] RE: [Epdp-dt] EPDP Scope
>>
>> Hi Pam,
>>
>> Thank you for your proposed edits. However, I do think that
>> they eliminate an important concept that we were trying to
>> get at and would prefer the question revert to its previous
>> formulation.
>>
>> If the DT decides to eliminate the concept of
>> reconciliation/avoiding an unharmonized approach, I still
>> think your proposed changes need some work.
>>
>> If we change to “Can the obligation to provide “reasonable
>> access” be clarified or defined…” I think that leads us down
>> the wrong path. J1 already focuses on clarifying and
>> defining reasonable access. I think we could ask “Can the
>> obligation to provide “reasonable access” be further
>> clarified and/or better defined through the implementation of
>> a community-wide model…” We lose the idea of harmonization,
>> which was the purpose of the question in the first place, but
>> ultimately those working on the answer will hopefully take
>> into account issues that would tend to bring a discordant
>> result and try to avoid those outcomes.
>>
>> So, Keith, we would prefer that the question revert. If we
>> can’t get that, we would be OK with:
>>
>> “Can the obligation to provide “reasonable access” be further
>> clarified and/or better defined through the implementation of
>> a community-wide model for access or similar framework which
>> takes into account at least the following elements:”
>>
>> Best to all,
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> *From:* Epdp-dt [mailto:epdp-dt-bounces at icann.org] *On Behalf
>> Of *Pam Little
>> *Sent:* Monday, July 16, 2018 1:50 AM
>> *To:* Epdp-dt at icann.org <mailto:Epdp-dt at icann.org>;
>> marika.konings at icann.org <mailto:marika.konings at icann.org>;
>> Drazek, Keith <kdrazek at verisign.com
>> <mailto:kdrazek at verisign.com>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Epdp-dt] EPDP Scope
>>
>> Hi Keith
>>
>> Many thanks to you and the small drafting team for the
>> "final" draft.
>>
>> Because of time zone differences, I have not had an
>> opportunity to discuss this with my RrSG councillors or RrSG
>> members but, in the interest fo time, I have made some
>> suggested edits and queries to the final draft. Most of them
>> are intended to correct minor errors or add more clarity and
>> consistency so I hope they are not controversial, except
>> perhaps my proposed change to J2 below:
>>
>> "J2) Can the obligation to provide “reasonable access” be
>> clarified or definedreconciled with the objective of
>> avoiding, to the extent possible, an unharmonized approach to
>> third-party access to registration data, , without the
>> implementation of a community-wide model for access or
>> similar framework which takes into account at least the
>> following elements:"
>>
>> It seems to me neither the langauge in the previous draft (re
>> fragmentation of WHOIS) nor the final draft was helpful hence
>> my proposed change to try to make it more neutral.
>>
>> I also have a question regarding the last paragraph in the
>> final draft:
>>
>> /"The EPDP Team shall respect the //timelines//and
>> deliverables as outlined in Annex A and A-1 of the ICANN
>> Bylaws and the EPDP Manual. As per the GNSO EPDP Working
>> Group Guidelines, the EPDP Team shall develop a work plan
>> that outlines the necessary steps and expected timing in
>> order to achieve the milestones of the EPDP as set out in
>> Annex A and A-1 of the ICANN Bylaws and the EPDP Manual and
>> submit this to the GNSO Council. Any significant updates to
>> the work plan are expected to be communicated in a timely
>> manner to the GNSO Council with an explanation as to why the
>> work plan needed adjustment." /
>>
>> The final draft Charter has set timelines for Deliverable
>> 2. Is the EPDP Team expected to develop a work plan for all
>> three deliverables?
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Pam
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Sender:Drazek, Keith via Epdp-dt <epdp-dt at icann.org
>> <mailto:epdp-dt at icann.org>>
>>
>> Sent at:2018 Jul 16 (Mon) 13:08
>>
>> To:Epdp-dt at icann.org <mailto:To%3AEpdp-dt at icann.org>
>> <Epdp-dt at icann.org <mailto:Epdp-dt at icann.org>>;
>> marika.konings at icann.org <mailto:marika.konings at icann.org>
>> <marika.konings at icann.org <mailto:marika.konings at icann.org>>
>>
>> Subject:[Epdp-dt] EPDP Scope
>>
>> Hello again everyone….
>>
>> Now attached is the final draft of the EPDP WG Charter scope
>> section for your review and our vote on the 19^th .
>>
>> I have attached the redline version (against the version
>> circulate to the DT last Wednesday) and the clean version.
>>
>> Thanks for your patience and for the constructive input of
>> all parties.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Keith
>>
>> *From:* Drazek, Keith
>> *Sent:* Sunday, July 15, 2018 10:28 AM
>> *To:* Drazek, Keith <kdrazek at verisign.com
>> <mailto:kdrazek at verisign.com>>
>> *Cc:* Epdp-dt at icann.org <mailto:Epdp-dt at icann.org>;
>> marika.konings at icann.org <mailto:marika.konings at icann.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [EXTERNAL] [Epdp-dt] EPDP Scope
>>
>> Hi all. Please wait before reviewing. I may have jumped the
>> gun and we may have more suggested edits incoming from NCSG.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Keith
>>
>>
>> On Jul 15, 2018, at 8:44 AM, Drazek, Keith via Epdp-dt
>> <epdp-dt at icann.org <mailto:epdp-dt at icann.org>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> As discussed on Wednesday’s EPDP Drafting Team call, attached
>> is the final draft of the EPDP charter scope section.
>>
>> I received a few suggested edits from Stephanie and Darcy and
>> did my best to incorporate/address them. The small group has
>> reviewed and agreed this is ready for approval at the 19 July
>> Council meeting.
>>
>> Thanks to everyone for your contributions to this effort.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Keith
>>
>> <Updated Scope Section 15 July 2018 -- Consolidated Edits.docx>
>>
>> <Updated Scope Section 15 July 2018 -- Consolidated Edits
>> CLEAN.docx>
>>
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