Attendance and Recording of the NCSG Policy Call on 03 July 2018 at 1200 UTC

[Maryam Bakoshi]

Dear All,

Please find attendance and recording of the NCSG Policy Call on 03 July 2018 at 1200 UTC

Attendance: Ayden Férdeline, Caleb Ogundele, Farell Folly, Elsa Saade, Farzaneh Badii, Gustavo Paiva, Ioana Stupariu, James Njoeoge Gitau, Joan Katambi, Krishna Seeburn, Louise Marie Hurel, Milton Mueller, Poncelet Ileleji, Rafik Dammak, Razoana Moslam, Renata Aquino Ribeiro, Shah Zahidur Rahman, Stephanie Perrin, Tatiana Tropina, Tomslin Samme-nlar, Vernatius Okwu Ezeama, Zhou Heng

Mp3: Attached

Viewing Link: https://participate.icann.org/p2cd4nzxgm9/

AC Chat:

  Maryam Bakoshi:Dear all, welcome to the NCSG Policy Call on Tuesday 03 July 2018 at 1200 UTC
  Ayden Férdeline:strange echo
  Gustavo Paiva:Yes
  Rafik:hello
  Ayden Férdeline:no Rafik, i can hear you speak - followed by a very strange echoing sound
  Ioana Stupariu:Hello everyone.
  Elsa Saade:Hey all
  Ayden Férdeline:hi all
  Tatiana Tropina:hi everyone
  Maryam Bakoshi:Welcome all
  Razoana Moslam:hey everyone
  Shah Zahidur Rahman:hi everyone
  Ayden Férdeline:let's wait a few seconds pls, Stephanie just logging in now
  Farzaneh Badii:oh the adobe connect link is theree too I will send him the link in a messagee
  Stephanie Perrin:Thanks Ayden, wow no idea why I am having so much trouble with AC but finally got in.
  Zhou Heng:Hi, all
  Tatiana Tropina:https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_document_d_1-5FRtCroFrgWT3rfJVkC-5FPfqjogSRcWEirovJzA1cWqV8_edit&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=m1o1e6rdpQtF1x7EVC2xR9pYzWbLnhZ2oaJYfhgCGV4&s=bfUdX6akSrBZmPw9uSrGuTDWXgUsyT3b8tzvpPBiqU8&e=
  Tatiana Tropina:Can I repluy Rafik?
  Tatiana Tropina:please?
  Tatiana Tropina:please
  Tatiana Tropina:Immediate response - but okay
  Tatiana Tropina:will reply here. The arguments they put forward is theat it's not a usual PDPD so we have to be mindful, flexible and whatever. We should use the same argument when we are drafting consensus rules to compensate the imbalance
  Elsa Saade:It's great language
  Zhou Heng:Pardon for I am new to this topic
  Elsa Saade:It's not a usual PDP and at this point, our group is the one who has always advocated for privacy and it only makes sense that we take part on an equal footing.
  Zhou Heng:I am pretty interesting in involving the EPDP discussion, I guess basically we are trying to fight  for more membership for NCSG?
  Milton Mueller:I lost sound
  Maryam Bakoshi:All, please mute your mic when you are not speaking. Thank you!
  Maryam Bakoshi:@Milton, please could you try re-entering the room?
  Milton Mueller:I am in the room
  Maryam Bakoshi:Is the sound back now?
  Milton Mueller:yes
  Maryam Bakoshi:Ok thank you for confirming
  Zhou Heng:May anyone send the full text of the EPDP team comments table.pdf or any other meeting materials?
  Stephanie Perrin:I would just like to point out that I spent quite a bit of time going over the whole document on THursday Morning, sent it in.....and put a strong comment on the numbers.  Two council members (atleast) immediately read it.  THey caught the issue.  Do not understand why the rest have ignored it.  So we are being played here.  I think we cannot compromise on this.
  Zhou Heng:Sorry for that happens
  Farzaneh Badii:yes . we need super majority. we can stop it
  Stephanie Perrin:We just completed a ridiculous process on RDS where compromise became doodle polls....where a zillion IP lawyers completed the poll.  WE never did figure out how to play that one....we got all members to do the poll some weeks, they set that poll aside as unrepresentative.
  Ayden Férdeline:yes, we use supermajority to stop this - we MUST!
  Stephanie Perrin:So what I am saying is we might as well get disruptive right now, or be steamrolled later.
  Tatiana Tropina:Ayden, I agree and I am ready to. I was asking yesterday if we are going to use it and if we are ready for consequences
  Ayden Férdeline:those polls were ONLY unrepresentative when the NCSG was a majority of the respondents... if the IPC was 80% of the votes, we accepted the results...
  Tatiana Tropina:We can hear you MM
  Stephanie Perrin:Exactly Ayden.
  Tatiana Tropina:But I am a bit concerned and I think we can pull both ways - language (we need it anyway for good) and representation. I don't understand why "either or"
  Stephanie Perrin:We also need to make the point that if this whole thing is going to be yet another stitchup, we will find other options to make our point.
  Tatiana Tropina:but I am ready to go as far as necessary. 9 CSG vs 9 all others is unacceptable
  Farzaneh Badii:of house
  Stephanie Perrin:I agree with Tat, we need to fix language also
  Farzaneh Badii:NCSG can stop it
  Tatiana Tropina:Yes council for the charter approval
  Ayden Férdeline:No, we can't.
  Ayden Férdeline:We need support from both houses
  Farzaneh Badii:it's not super majority of each house?
  Poncelet Ileleji:The Language issue has to be sorted
  Ayden Férdeline:agree with Milton. this is not a nuclear option, it is a matter of fairness
  Stephanie Perrin:FOrget justice arguments, they are not even bothering to read our posts.
  Milton Mueller:sorry but "nuclear option" means you are blowing up something - all we are saying is that the charter is wrong
  Milton Mueller:and will not be passed
  Milton Mueller:exactly, TT
  Stephanie Perrin:Which is why I keep bringing up the issue of the GNSO review, if we let this distribution of seats pass, get ready for restructuring.
  Milton Mueller:and if you do block the charter be prepared for them to think of some way to undermine that vote
  Stephanie Perrin:I have heard several GNSO councillors talking about reducing participant funding for budget reasons.  They know this would hit us the hardest
  Milton Mueller:it's very simple, isn't it?
  Elsa Saade:I'd suggest we send our final language and insinuate our strong disagreement with the charter if our changes are not taken into consideration.
  Ayden Férdeline:@Stephanie - is that just for this EPDP, or for the Council in general?
  Tatiana Tropina:Milton I believe we will get all the shit thrown on the fan once we threaten to do this or do this.
  Farzaneh Badii:well other councilors are not here but yes we must stop the charter if it's not balance representation
  Elsa Saade:if the changes are not made in time, then the vote should definitely be opposing
  Stephanie Perrin:no ICANN in general....
  Milton Mueller:of course, Tatiana, that's why you have to be clear and firm.
  Tatiana Tropina:That was my main question - are we going to vote against. It seems that I got my answer, am happy about it.
  Tatiana Tropina:the way they treat us in negotiation of this charter is unacceptable.
  Stephanie Perrin:I will certainly vote against it.
  Ayden Férdeline:i could not care less how they react
  Milton Mueller::-)
  Ayden Férdeline:it is very disrespectful to us
  Elsa Saade:how could they react rly? What's the worst that could happen?
  Ayden Férdeline:accuse us of being political... as if they aren't in proposing this unacceptable language
  Tatiana Tropina:Elsa, what could happen? Nothing really except that the netire community will accuse noncommercials in being disruptive, but I don't care
  Stephanie Perrin:NOt sure what the worst would be Elsa, but there is a long history of ignoring us and working around us.
  Tatiana Tropina:we have to be clear that we are going to vote against.
  Stephanie Perrin:This latest caper deserves an article in Domain Incite...
  Ayden Férdeline:yes, deferred by 2 days, from 17 July to 19 July
  Tatiana Tropina:and if they decide they are not ready for vote - fine, bring it back and negotiate with us as equals.
  Milton Mueller:if you can get him (DI) to do it, yes
  Tatiana Tropina:I can't attend the call and they don't even allow me to have proxy, but Rafik can tell he is aware of my voting preferences.
  Elsa Saade:well all those sound ok to me. They should respect all groups in this process. And I saw how many times we've sent emails and got ignored. If sounding our NO is what it takes for them to listen, then definitely let's do it
  Stephanie Perrin:Disruptive?  we need to wrap ourselves in the argument that we are the ones who have throughout history of ICANN fought foruser rights, and we are being sidelined while the commercial players are lining up their plans to consolidate.
  Milton Mueller:who is "the host"?
  Tatiana Tropina:Elsa, they ignored Ayden's email until we joined the forces and then they accused we never raised objection
  Elsa Saade:Exactly stephanie
  Tatiana Tropina:Milton, the host is the god probably as I don't see the real host leaving :-)
  Elsa Saade:yes I saw that.. It's quite disrespectful T.
  Milton Mueller:Tell them it is disruptive to change the rules of representation
  Farzaneh Badii:there wwere objections during the meeting on 27 June as well
  Farzaneh Badii:by Tatiana and Ayden
  Tatiana Tropina:There were objections every meeting. Rubens, in all fairness replied on the thread that we raised them so accusing us of not raising them is not fair
  Ayden Férdeline:and i objected on the list on 3 seperates dates
  Elsa Saade:Yes Rafik, GAC and ALAC
  Elsa Saade:Could you tell us more about that?
  Tatiana Tropina:they just live in a different reality it seems. First get the math wrong, then twist all this upside down
  Stephanie Perrin:Good for Rubens, he read my lengthy comment right away in the meeting.
  Elsa Saade:I'm starting to doubt it was even a math issue
  Rafik:@tatiana there is no vote in DT, so indeed no need for proxy
  Stephanie Perrin:Exactly Milton.
  Krishna Seeburn:+1 MM
  Stephanie Perrin:they may not be allies, we cannot count on them
  Tatiana Tropina:I agree with MM that it's a part of a bigger problem, it's like walking in minefield the rules are bing adjusted and bent in whatever preferences and not really in our advantage
  Krishna Seeburn:they have their own agenda
  Stephanie Perrin:Hello, gnso restructuring.  going to keep repeating this over and over, pay attention folks
  Milton Mueller:Steph - it's not the issue at this time
  Stephanie Perrin:the CCNSO did not bother to participate in the RDS review team...
  Elsa Saade:Could be something we need to prepare for on the long run
  Krishna Seeburn:it looks like the previous WG that was doomed....
  Stephanie Perrin:Not now Milton, coming soon to a battlefield near you...
  Milton Mueller:why should they Elsa? they are not affected byb it
  Elsa Saade:yes definitely! I agree with you Milton!
  Zhou Heng:@Milton, I have read the full text of Interim Regulation for WHOIS. The article 4.4 of interim regulation is listed for the goal and mission of WHOIS. I guess some missions of WHOIS is related to SSAC.
  Milton Mueller::D
  Milton Mueller:Yes, Zhou SSAC has a lot of legitimate things to say about Whois, but they are Advisory Committee not policy makers
  Elsa Saade:+1 Tanya!!
  Zhou Heng:So, maybe you are suggesting they better to become observers?
  Milton Mueller:yes
  Elsa Saade:All ACs should be observers, but not weigh in, in the voting. They're not policy makers, as Milton said.
  Tatiana Tropina:no, participants
  Elsa Saade:Only makes sense
  Tatiana Tropina:members (GNSO), participants (others), obersvers
  Milton Mueller:participants, yes. SSAC should have a lot of constructive things to say. But they do not count in the consensus
  Krishna Seeburn:well that is the usual process
  Stephanie Perrin:There is more than voting, remember, there is the ability to speak.  They can run the clock out vy speaking all the time if they are participants.
  Tatiana Tropina:I definitely have it on the records but eyes rolls in response were not recorded :-)
  Zhou Heng:I guess we share the same understanding here, thanks!
  Milton Mueller:so can we Stephanie
  Krishna Seeburn:@Stephanie very true
  Stephanie Perrin:Then the voting partners who are trying to minimize us do not have to do the dirty work, just shrug and move on.
  Stephanie Perrin:Sets the team up for a real donnybrook like we had on the rDS
  Krishna Seeburn:exactly stephanie...very true
  Stephanie Perrin:Milton, you are talking to the noisiest person  here....at least chuck let me speak all the time.  Not sure new chair will....
  Ayden Férdeline:let them speak, but perhaps reps from SO/ACs should be given a 2 minute timer, max 1 x 2 minute intervention per call...
  Elsa Saade:Stephanie, you also mentioned the need for RDS evaluation during Panama.. This should definitely be taken into consideration as we go.. could prove our points easily
  Tatiana Tropina:am very talkative today hehehehehe
  Milton Mueller:I still find it hard to believe that the registrars won't back us on this
  Zhou Heng:@ rafik, would you mind to read the email?
  Stephanie Perrin:Elsa I think it would be useful.  As it is, we are going to have to fish in the records for our evidencel
  Elsa Saade:seems like it
  Stephanie Perrin:Milton like I keep saying, they are happy to rag the puck this time and not get a new policy.  They might be doing this whole caper to waste a month (just speculating)
  Stephanie Perrin:Their motivations are not pure.
  Elsa Saade:maybe in our statement we could mention this? The fact that we are speculating that the other house is dragging the process indirectly, knowing that NCSG would  advocate for equal footing on the EPDP as mentioned in Panama
  Elsa Saade:It could get some of the spotlight to them
  James Njoeoge Gitau:Hello everyone! Stepping out for a while!
  Stephanie Perrin:well it would certainly be a feature of a domain incite article Elsa.  Now, there will be allegations of acting in bad faith as a councillor...but I am out in October anyway, feel somewhat liberated
  Elsa Saade:hahaha
  Farzaneh Badii:no Stephanie they want to start so that they get people off their back and then delay the process
  Krishna Seeburn:Delaying the process  and perhaps kill it for some time is nothing new and it may be one of the agenda items.....doesn't astound me at all
  Stephanie Perrin:Yes there are a few stock tricks here Kris....
  Krishna Seeburn:well ponted stephanie
  Stephanie Perrin:it is most likely being discussed in the registrars GDPR group that we were kicked out of in the meeting...
  Stephanie Perrin:Some of the registrars have been saying thick is dead
  Stephanie Perrin:but you might have noticed that this is not one of the "impacted policies" in my mind itis...
  Ayden Férdeline:i like that language Farzi, we should make that edit...
  Krishna Seeburn:On ASO side --the RIRs have already implemented RDAP  more or less and in RIPE i know for sure they have already setup there end. Others RIRs are going for it as another layered protocol. Until all RIRs are aligned. But of course the ccNSO side --registry/registrars ..re and should be also concerned.
  Farzaneh Badii:Milton is trying to talk I think Rafik
  Tatiana Tropina:I got this email as well that as it's not a council meeting - we can't warrant a proxy
  Tatiana Tropina:I would like to appoint MM as an alternate
  Milton Mueller:an alternate is not a proxy. nothing to do with voting, just speaking
  Tatiana Tropina:for the 5th of July.
  Farzaneh Badii:so an alternate
  Tatiana Tropina:Can we have my alternate for one day?
  Ayden Férdeline:we are short on Thursday - no Tatiana, no Arsene, no Martin
  Tatiana Tropina:Let me reply to her email
  Tatiana Tropina:YES I hope so
  Tatiana Tropina:let's do it
  Tatiana Tropina:I want to have MM as my alternate
  Milton Mueller:I nominate you
  Stephanie Perrin:Arsene is not here, better make sure you have a proxy for him as well
  Milton Mueller:I could do it but have a 10 am shooting sessions
  Tatiana Tropina:they say we can't have proxy
  Ayden Férdeline:we have 3 apologies from the NCSG for Thursday - we can take all of you!
  Milton Mueller:video shooting not guns
  Farzaneh Badii:oh Milton the super star
  Tatiana Tropina:MM, it's 12 UTC
  Farzaneh Badii:gun shooting is more fun
  Milton Mueller:ah, good Ayden
  Tatiana Tropina:are you shooting early morning?
  Farzaneh Badii:oh no I can't believe I sent that messaage on chat ...
  Tatiana Tropina:like what, morning shooting workout?
  Milton Mueller:12 utC = 8 am here, if the meeting goes 2 hours I will have a problem
  Tatiana Tropina:meeting is 1,5 hours.
  Milton Mueller:recording online course
  Tatiana Tropina:please be my alternate.
  Milton Mueller:ok
  Stephanie Perrin:What I dont understand is why they are sayiing we dont get proxies.  HOw is this process going to run?
  Farzaneh Badii:3 council members cant aattend?
  Tatiana Tropina:good we have an alternate for me. So I agree to appoint an alternate on the 5th of July for 1 day because of my travels and kindly ask to do so
  Farzaneh Badii:because they wont vote
  Tatiana Tropina:They picked up this time and apologiesed at the working session -- it's on the record.
  Milton Mueller:Tatiana: ask for alternate first, before you tell them it's me ;-)
  Farzaneh Badii:I can just appoint you Milton
  Milton Mueller:I suspect staff and leadership will deny Alternate
  Stephanie Perrin:ok so we had better watch the vote call on the charter very carefully indeed.  WHo is going to submit that motion?
  Milton Mueller:lets put it this way: who WILL be there from NCSG?
  Farzaneh Badii:you are hereby appointed to the distinguished position of Tatiana alternate
  Tatiana Tropina:No i think the NCSG chair can just tell them we appoint an alternate for 1 day because the time pikced means that not all the councillors can attend and we are disadvantaged.
  Milton Mueller:ok good
  Ayden Férdeline:and that is true, by the Council Chair's own admission, she chose the date where many people were unavailable
  Stephanie Perrin:Staff objected right off the bat to my extensive comments, wanted a summary.
  Ayden Férdeline:^ that's absurd @Stephanie
  Tatiana Tropina:they said they picked up "not the time indicated by the most participants in the doodle poll but other time" how nice is that
  Farzaneh Badii:hahaha
  Farzaneh Badii:that's a joke
  Tatiana Tropina:I am relived now, at least we can try to have an alternate.
  Ayden Férdeline:meanwhile @Stephanie they just copy and paste in comments from Keith!
  Stephanie Perrin:exactly.  Make me do a summary.  They are going to get the summary all right, but today.
  Tatiana Tropina:ah that.... :-)
  Ayden Férdeline:they chose the date when the IPC had 100% availability and we had limited availability
  Tatiana Tropina:thanks for clarification... That was the only time when am on the plane ... and can use only telepathy for communication (no smoke signals)
  Farzaneh Badii:Heather is IPC :)
  Farzaneh Badii:hahaha
  Ayden Férdeline:come on Rafik.
  Stephanie Perrin:I think we should start being very clandestine about our agendas, dont make it easy to exclude it by indicating travel, funeral, and day job demands
  Ayden Férdeline:who is chairing this call if not Heather? i thought she said she was not available - but would rearrange things
  Tatiana Tropina:LOL am sorry
  Elsa Saade:good luck all!
  Ayden Férdeline:you or Donna?
  Stephanie Perrin:Thanks Elsa!!
  Tatiana Tropina:thanks Rafik and all - speak soon
  Ayden Férdeline:because if you, we have just Steph and I
  Farzaneh Badii:bye
  Zhou Heng:bye
  Tomslin Samme-nlar:bye guys
  Krishna Seeburn:bye all
  Maryam Bakoshi:Thank you all


--
Many thanks,

Maryam Bakoshi | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
ICANN | Internet Corporation got Assigned Names and Numbers
S: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | T: +44 7846 471777

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