[NCSG-EC] Vaibhav
Stephanie E Perrin
stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
Wed Jun 3 18:43:30 EEST 2020
Bearing in mind the need to ensure confidentiality of formal complaints,
which Mr. Aggarwal's latest email to me indicates that this is, I
reached out to Milton. He is not prepared to apologize to Mr Aggarwal
on the list. i am about to inform Mr. A of this fact, and that I have
reviewed the messages in question and not only do not think he has a
valid complaint, but concur with the EC that his behaviour on the list
violates our acceptable standards. Do you agree with this assessment?
I suggest we review his membership after the elections are over. in the
meantime, if you believe that his conduct after the warning in private
was issued continues to be outside the boundaries of acceptable
behaviour, please point me to the evidence and I will inform him that
the NCSG-EC has removed him from the list. Period of removal should be
temporary in my view, pending removal of membership if indeed he does
not qualify on grounds of his commercial activities.
SP
On 2020-06-03 10:04 a.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix wrote:
> Hi all
>
> Good morning, and I hope you all enjoyed a good night's sleep...
>
> First about the guy:
>
> He has shown no willingness to do anything besides continue on the
> same track. He posted on the list *and* on social media *after* the
> warning, and probably realizing he had been moderated from the NCSG
> list, took to the NCUC list.
>
> There is also now an "official" request by James to look into his
> membership status (raised directly with Stephanie and Bruna (putting
> me in cc, hence I inform you here))
>
> Irrespective of the last point, the rest is enough to me to warrant
> his immediate removal, his "complaint" against Milton notwithstanding.
>
> We can blame ourselves for letting things heat up and failing to
> moderate (technically speaking) quickly enough, but he's the one to
> blame for disregarding pretty much every point from our warning and
> actively circumventing it.
>
> As to the complaint re Milton, the furthest I would be willing to go
> would be to send a reminder to Milton, encouraging him to exercise
> utmost caution in his choice of words when faced with disruptive
> behavior on list, in the multicultural context that is ours.
>
> I will be in touch with Bruna regarding moderating him from the NCUC
> mailing list as well. And let me know your thoughts on the main issue.
>
> Have a nice day,
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 5:15 AM Raoul Plommer <plommer at gmail.com
> <mailto:plommer at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Milton has nothing to apologise for, as far as I'm concerned. I
> might've been even less polite, had I seen this ridiculous energy
> waster yesterday.
>
> -Raoul
>
> On Wed, 3 Jun 2020 at 03:36, U Of T via NCSG-EC
> <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>
> He has sent me such a direct complaint. No specifics of
> course. I guess i have to respond. He is demanding I make
> Milton apologize on the list. Advice welcome.
> Steph
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jun 2, 2020, at 20:29, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix
>> <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com
>> <mailto:rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I got the confirmation from Rafik that Vaibhav is now on
>> filter mode.
>>
>> I'll start another thread to deal with the technical side of
>> that...
>>
>> But for the main issue, I suggest we leave it at that and
>> filter everything until the election is over, and take a
>> second look by then.
>>
>> Also, he seems to imply he wants to file a complaint against
>> Milton. I guess we should still reply to that - something
>> like if you want to file a complaint, you have to do it in
>> writing to the Chair?
>>
>> Let me know. Hopefully with the filter in place and maybe a
>> few more reminders if more people try to keep the discussion
>> rolling, we can put that behind us and move on with our lives...
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 5:22 PM Stephanie E Perrin via NCSG-EC
>> <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>>
>> Looks fine to me. Thanks for doing this Raphael!
>>
>> SP
>>
>> On 2020-06-02 2:19 p.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via
>> NCSG-EC wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> This was not my initial interpretation of his message
>>> either, but I can see how and why you can interpret it
>>> that way Steph.
>>>
>>> But I'm not sure that the point you are raising should
>>> be addressed in the context of the EC. It has
>>> ramifications into both your history as a NCSG chair,
>>> and the "issues" with our rigid gender rules that now
>>> put you in a situation where you are (almost) elected by
>>> default. The interpretation you put forward is
>>> legitimate in your circumstances, but it has to be
>>> inferred, from a rather complex situation and
>>> long-standing situation. Whats going on with Vaibhav
>>> though is rather straightforward and can be addressed
>>> right away.
>>>
>>> This is what I plan to send him later today, with your
>>> agreement:
>>>
>>> "Vaibhav,
>>>
>>> We are writing to you regarding the post you made on the
>>> NCSG mailing list at 11:50 EST in the "NCSG Election
>>> Clarifications" thread.
>>>
>>> After reviewing the content of your post, we find it to
>>> be in violation of both the NCSG Charter and the ICANN
>>> Expected Standards of Behavior.
>>>
>>> Article 1.2 d) of the NCSG Charter reads as follows:
>>> "Behavioral expectations of all NCSG members, include
>>> without limitation: adhering to ICANN Bylaws/Policies;
>>> supporting the bottom-up consensus model; treating
>>> others with dignity, respect, and courtesy; listening
>>> attentively and seeking to understand others; acting
>>> with honesty, sincerity, and integrity."
>>>
>>> Your recent interventions on the mailing list were
>>> generally borderline regarding these Charter
>>> committments, and the one we referred to above
>>> constitutes a direct violation.
>>>
>>> We would kindly ask you to reconsider how you understand
>>> your involvement with NCSG and withdraw the personal
>>> attacks, accusations and threats you made in that post.
>>>
>>> Any further post on the NCSG mailing list which would be
>>> found in violation of the NCSG Charter could lead to
>>> your suspension from the mailing list and a further
>>> review of your membership status by the NCSG Executive
>>> Committee.
>>>
>>> We thank you in advance for your cooperation on this matter.
>>>
>>> Raphaël Beauregard-Lacroix, on behalf of the NCSG
>>> Executive Committee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 1:53 PM Robin Gross via NCSG-EC
>>> <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I didn’t interpret Milton’s message as being hurtful
>>> but more of what we face every election - people
>>> imaging ways of using the existing ballot and rules
>>> to achieve various results. It isn’t the first time
>>> we’ve had abstain / NOTA conversations and probably
>>> won’t be the last.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Robin
>>>
>>>> On Jun 2, 2020, at 10:04 AM, Stephanie E Perrin via
>>>> NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is
>>>> <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I just responded to James' comment, in hopes that
>>>> this would douse the flames. I also resent the
>>>> thread of reminders about the election process....I
>>>> trust it made it to the list.
>>>>
>>>> I agree that whoever this Agarwal guy is, an
>>>> offlist note is required. I would really
>>>> appreciate it if you did it, because frankly it
>>>> looks like I am retaliating and might serve to
>>>> escalate matters.
>>>>
>>>> I also think Milton is out of line. I am well
>>>> aware of how much he would like me not to run, but
>>>> to suggest to the list that they send me a message
>>>> about how unwelcome I am, by voting
>>>> abstain....well, besides being hurtful, I think it
>>>> is a kind of electioneering that ought to be
>>>> discouraged. Encourage people to vote for your
>>>> candidate of choice, sure.
>>>>
>>>> I also think that encouraging me to step down so
>>>> the EC can appoint the person they really want
>>>> raises all kinds of questions about how fair the
>>>> election process is.
>>>>
>>>> Just my two cents.
>>>>
>>>> SP
>>>>
>>>> On 2020-06-02 12:57 p.m., Raphael
>>>> Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:
>>>>> Hi all
>>>>>
>>>>> What he said to Milton is disrespectful, and
>>>>> contains specific accusations as well as threats.
>>>>> I think he needs to be reminded off-list of the
>>>>> expected standards of behavior at ICANN and
>>>>> encouraged to withdraw what he said and eventually
>>>>> apologize. If he keeps lashing on, then to me
>>>>> thats a case of temporary suspension from the
>>>>> mailing list with further review on our side.
>>>>>
>>>>> Milton is harsh, and I also think he should
>>>>> exercise restraint in such circumstances, and it
>>>>> would be fair game to remind him. His point could
>>>>> be made without certain words, irrespective of
>>>>> their being "true" or not. But Vaibhav's surely
>>>>> went way over the line as far as standards of
>>>>> behavior are concerned, much more than Milton ever
>>>>> did.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know you don't like to play the cop Steph, but I
>>>>> do think it's required, unfortunately. If you
>>>>> don't feel like it, I can volunteer, or someone
>>>>> else can go ahead too.
>>>>>
>>>>> But let's quickly discuss first; let me know what
>>>>> you all think.
>>>>>
>>>>> Have a nice day,
>>>>>
>>>>>
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