[For comment] Membership approval guidelines

Tue Sep 11 06:53:34 EEST 2018

Tapani,

Sorry I am so surprised that I have to ask: you mean how the removal
procedure got approved given that they are subject to membership approval?
The procedures I sent the link to and are on our website?

On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 3:47 AM Tapani Tarvainen <ncsg at tapani.tarvainen.info>
wrote:

> Hi Farzaneh,
>
> Given that our charter specifically requires them to be subject
> to membership approval, how was that done?
>
> Tapani
>
> On Sep 11 03:20, farzaneh badii (farzaneh.badii at gmail.com) wrote:
>
> > Tapani
> >
> > Those removal procedures were approved a couple of months ago and now on
> > the website:
> >
> https://community.icann.org/display/gnsononcomstake/Operating+Procedures#OperatingProcedures-169034239
> >
> > I did in the other document that I shared mention that if we ever want to
> > remove individual members that are official members of organizations, we
> > can add the provisions to the removal procedures.
> >
> > But we are not gonna do any of that now, so it's ok. If any future chair
> > and Exec Committee and NCSG community decided to revisit the rule they
> > should remember to add it to the removal procedure.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Farzaneh
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 3:13 AM Tapani Tarvainen <
> ncsg at tapani.tarvainen.info>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Farzaneh,
> > >
> > > What is the status of member removal procedures (that have
> > > been worked on for some time now)?
> > >
> > > Since all approaches to the "dual voting" scenario would seem to imply
> > > at least threat of removal, don't you think rules for handling them
> > > should be considered and ideally approved together with the removal
> > > procedures?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Tapani
> > >
> > > On Sep 11 02:48, farzaneh badii (farzaneh.badii at GMAIL.COM) wrote:
> > >
> > > > I thought about this Raoul again and read the previous threads
> looked at
> > > > the past discussions, looked at the dual members. I think I am going
> to
> > > > take the convenient approach and that is removing section 5 from the
> > > > document. As you said you are the only opposition (I think I saw a
> plus 1
> > > > from Farrell as well to one of your comments) but also I don't see
> much
> > > > discussion here in its support of the paragraph.  I guess you don't
> have
> > > an
> > > > opposition to the rest of the document? can we approve that with the
> EC?
> > > > People have been asking us for some guidelines for membership
> approval.
> > > > Would be good to have them in place before Stephanie becomes chair.
> > > >
> > > >  I was after documenting NCSG processes so that leading and running
> it
> > > > would be easier and less ad hoc and arbitrary.
> > > >
> > > >  I have added Robin Gross here. During Robin's term as chair, the
> > > practice
> > > > was that official reps could not be individual reps. This is just to
> > > > reassure the members that I am not creating things out of thin air
> and
> > > want
> > > > to impose them here before I leave!. But looking at some of Robin's
> > > > communications I have the impression that she could also agree with
> you
> > > > that when it comes to voting, dual members can just choose.I cc'd her
> > > here
> > > > to correct me or see if she wants to weigh in.
> > > >
> > > > I have provided my reasons as to why I don't agree with your
> approach. I
> > > > won't reiterate them. I still think I have a point. But a compromise
> here
> > > > doesn't really harm NCSG. So I let it go.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Farzaneh
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 8:45 AM Raoul Plommer <plommer at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > It would be a all too convenient to silence pretty much the only
> vocal
> > > > > opposition you've had to this arbitrary guideline so I'm not going
> to
> > > > > recuse myself.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've posited us an alternative solution that I think is far less
> > > > > bureaucratic and burdensome for our members and the EC. Until you
> can
> > > give
> > > > > me a better solution, I'm going to oppose these new guidelines.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Raoul
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, 10 Sep 2018 at 14:15, farzaneh badii <
> farzaneh.badii at gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Not that exactly Raoul. Joly was not an individual member in the
> first
> > > > >> place. But of course since he was a member for so long and doesn't
> > > seem to
> > > > >> have changed the noncommercial nature of his activities in DNS it
> can
> > > be an
> > > > >> easy fix.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> And we have not yet agreed on the rule not to have dual
> membership of
> > > > >> official reps as individual members too so really we don't remove
> > > those for
> > > > >> now, also applicable to you as you are still an individual member
> and
> > > an
> > > > >> official rep.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> if  there is enough agreement to do that among the EC members and
> the
> > > > >> NCSG in the future, we can do so and put the rule down hopefully
> > > before the
> > > > >> next elections.  since you are exactly in that situation I believe
> > > you have
> > > > >> to recuse yourself and let others talk. But that's my personal
> > > opinion and
> > > > >> will see what the rest of the EC and NCSG members think.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 6:26 AM Raoul Plommer <plommer at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> Joly's case is exactly what I mean by unnecessarily removing him
> as a
> > > > >>> member of the NCSG and having to apply for a membership again.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> -Raoul
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> On Mon, 10 Sep 2018 at 05:28, farzaneh badii <
> > > farzaneh.badii at gmail.com>
> > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> Hi Joly
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> I think that is a good idea and we should add this somewhere
> either
> > > in
> > > > >>>> this doc or somewhere that people who generally want to leave
> look
> > > for. If
> > > > >>>> you want to be an individual member, you can apply again at this
> > > link:
> > > > >>>> https://members.ncsg.is/membership_application
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Maryam had sent you a confirmation email that our record has
> been
> > > > >>>> updated and Shilli is the primary rep. Seems like you have not
> been
> > > > >>>> unsubscribed from the NCSG mailing list.  I wonder if you have
> been
> > > from
> > > > >>>> NCUC since you sent an email to that list and resigned
> specifically
> > > from
> > > > >>>> NCUC. That is another thing that procedurally we need to think
> but
> > > can be
> > > > >>>> relatively easy.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> For now, you can re-apply, and we can unsubscribe you until your
> > > > >>>> membership is evaluated and announced.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Farzaneh
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 9:48 PM Joly MacFie <joly at punkcast.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>> So what is the process for someone like me, who no longer
> > > represents
> > > > >>>>> an org?
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> I recently formally announced my resignation to the list. I
> note
> > > that
> > > > >>>>> I am yet to be suspended / removed.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> My suggestion would be that should happen, along there be some
> > > formal
> > > > >>>>> notice  - "Thank you for your service. Here's how to apply for
> > > individual
> > > > >>>>> membership.."
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> j
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 9:43 AM, farzaneh badii <
> > > > >>>>> farzaneh.badii at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Raoul
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> These guidelines say that individual members cannot be
> official
> > > > >>>>>> representative of their orgs. We have to discuss the latter
> but
> > > we had many
> > > > >>>>>> conversations before the election whether individuals can be
> > > official reps
> > > > >>>>>> of their org as well and many agreed that no they should not
> be
> > > because
> > > > >>>>>> they get voting rights. Are you against the  paragraph below?
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> "5. Can I be an individual member as well as the
> representative
> > > > >>>>>> member of my organization?
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> No, that is not possible. You need to decide whether you want
> to
> > > be
> > > > >>>>>> the official representative of your organization at NCSG, or
> if
> > > you want to
> > > > >>>>>> be an individual member and not represent your organization. "
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> We could clarify the last sentence that they can represent
> their
> > > > >>>>>> organization as an additional member of the org if they wish.
> But
> > > they
> > > > >>>>>> won't have voting rights.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 6:07 AM Raoul Plommer <
> plommer at gmail.com>
> > > > >>>>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> I would not go for removing the dual membership. I see no
> harm in
> > > > >>>>>>> having the individual having a personal and an organisational
> > > identity in
> > > > >>>>>>> the NCSG. It will create many repeat applications from people
> > > that are
> > > > >>>>>>> already active in our community, when they change
> organisation
> > > or they want
> > > > >>>>>>> to give room for new organisational representatives. They
> would
> > > then have
> > > > >>>>>>> to apply again and that's just a waste of time for everyone.
> IF
> > > we need to
> > > > >>>>>>> change something about it, it would be to remove the voting
> > > right of the
> > > > >>>>>>> other identity, basically, whichever had less weight.
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> -Raoul
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> On Sun, 9 Sep 2018 at 01:22, farzaneh badii <
> > > > >>>>>>> farzaneh.badii at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> I have incorporated your comments as much as I could and
> sent
> > > this
> > > > >>>>>>>> document to the Executive Committee for approval as well.
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> This is to be reviewed by 14th of September.
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Best
> > > > >>>>>>>> Farzaneh
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 3:59 AM farzaneh badii <
> > > > >>>>>>>> farzaneh.badii at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> All
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> This is a brief membership approval process and members
> > > > >>>>>>>>> application guideline.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> It is in the format of Q and A so that it's easier to read
> and
> > > > >>>>>>>>> follow.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Please comment, this is not a complete document and we
> would
> > > like
> > > > >>>>>>>>> to complete it with your help:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Membership approval guidelines
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > >
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vb4a7KnsDwqQlKCMkQx2y8DlykYkT2z3ODxMweGcxTE/edit?usp=sharing
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> We will have until 21 August to finalize, add and remove
> from
> > > the
> > > > >>>>>>>>> document and then send to NCSG EC for comments.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Best
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Farzaneh
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> --
> > > > >>>>>> Farzaneh
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> --
> > > > >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >>>>> Joly MacFie  218 565 9365 Skype:punkcast
> > > > >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >>>>> -
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>> --
> > > > >> Farzaneh
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > >
>
-- 
Farzaneh
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