<div><div><div dir="auto">Tapani, </div></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Sorry I am so surprised that I have to ask: you mean how the removal procedure got approved given that they are subject to membership approval? The procedures I sent the link to and are on our website? </div><div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 3:47 AM Tapani Tarvainen <<a href="mailto:ncsg@tapani.tarvainen.info" target="_blank">ncsg@tapani.tarvainen.info</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi Farzaneh,<br>
<br>
Given that our charter specifically requires them to be subject<br>
to membership approval, how was that done?<br>
<br>
Tapani<br>
<br>
On Sep 11 03:20, farzaneh badii (<a href="mailto:farzaneh.badii@gmail.com" target="_blank">farzaneh.badii@gmail.com</a>) wrote:<br>
<br>
> Tapani<br>
> <br>
> Those removal procedures were approved a couple of months ago and now on<br>
> the website:<br>
> <a href="https://community.icann.org/display/gnsononcomstake/Operating+Procedures#OperatingProcedures-169034239" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://community.icann.org/display/gnsononcomstake/Operating+Procedures#OperatingProcedures-169034239</a><br>
> <br>
> I did in the other document that I shared mention that if we ever want to<br>
> remove individual members that are official members of organizations, we<br>
> can add the provisions to the removal procedures.<br>
> <br>
> But we are not gonna do any of that now, so it's ok. If any future chair<br>
> and Exec Committee and NCSG community decided to revisit the rule they<br>
> should remember to add it to the removal procedure.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Farzaneh<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 3:13 AM Tapani Tarvainen <<a href="mailto:ncsg@tapani.tarvainen.info" target="_blank">ncsg@tapani.tarvainen.info</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> > Dear Farzaneh,<br>
> ><br>
> > What is the status of member removal procedures (that have<br>
> > been worked on for some time now)?<br>
> ><br>
> > Since all approaches to the "dual voting" scenario would seem to imply<br>
> > at least threat of removal, don't you think rules for handling them<br>
> > should be considered and ideally approved together with the removal<br>
> > procedures?<br>
> ><br>
> > Regards,<br>
> ><br>
> > Tapani<br>
> ><br>
> > On Sep 11 02:48, farzaneh badii (<a href="mailto:farzaneh.badii@GMAIL.COM" target="_blank">farzaneh.badii@GMAIL.COM</a>) wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > > I thought about this Raoul again and read the previous threads looked at<br>
> > > the past discussions, looked at the dual members. I think I am going to<br>
> > > take the convenient approach and that is removing section 5 from the<br>
> > > document. As you said you are the only opposition (I think I saw a plus 1<br>
> > > from Farrell as well to one of your comments) but also I don't see much<br>
> > > discussion here in its support of the paragraph. I guess you don't have<br>
> > an<br>
> > > opposition to the rest of the document? can we approve that with the EC?<br>
> > > People have been asking us for some guidelines for membership approval.<br>
> > > Would be good to have them in place before Stephanie becomes chair.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > I was after documenting NCSG processes so that leading and running it<br>
> > > would be easier and less ad hoc and arbitrary.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > I have added Robin Gross here. During Robin's term as chair, the<br>
> > practice<br>
> > > was that official reps could not be individual reps. This is just to<br>
> > > reassure the members that I am not creating things out of thin air and<br>
> > want<br>
> > > to impose them here before I leave!. But looking at some of Robin's<br>
> > > communications I have the impression that she could also agree with you<br>
> > > that when it comes to voting, dual members can just choose.I cc'd her<br>
> > here<br>
> > > to correct me or see if she wants to weigh in.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > I have provided my reasons as to why I don't agree with your approach. I<br>
> > > won't reiterate them. I still think I have a point. But a compromise here<br>
> > > doesn't really harm NCSG. So I let it go.<br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > > Farzaneh<br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > > On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 8:45 AM Raoul Plommer <<a href="mailto:plommer@gmail.com" target="_blank">plommer@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> > ><br>
> > > > It would be a all too convenient to silence pretty much the only vocal<br>
> > > > opposition you've had to this arbitrary guideline so I'm not going to<br>
> > > > recuse myself.<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > I've posited us an alternative solution that I think is far less<br>
> > > > bureaucratic and burdensome for our members and the EC. Until you can<br>
> > give<br>
> > > > me a better solution, I'm going to oppose these new guidelines.<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > -Raoul<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > On Mon, 10 Sep 2018 at 14:15, farzaneh badii <<a href="mailto:farzaneh.badii@gmail.com" target="_blank">farzaneh.badii@gmail.com</a><br>
> > ><br>
> > > > wrote:<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > >> Not that exactly Raoul. Joly was not an individual member in the first<br>
> > > >> place. But of course since he was a member for so long and doesn't<br>
> > seem to<br>
> > > >> have changed the noncommercial nature of his activities in DNS it can<br>
> > be an<br>
> > > >> easy fix.<br>
> > > >><br>
> > > >> And we have not yet agreed on the rule not to have dual membership of<br>
> > > >> official reps as individual members too so really we don't remove<br>
> > those for<br>
> > > >> now, also applicable to you as you are still an individual member and<br>
> > an<br>
> > > >> official rep.<br>
> > > >><br>
> > > >> if there is enough agreement to do that among the EC members and the<br>
> > > >> NCSG in the future, we can do so and put the rule down hopefully<br>
> > before the<br>
> > > >> next elections. since you are exactly in that situation I believe<br>
> > you have<br>
> > > >> to recuse yourself and let others talk. But that's my personal<br>
> > opinion and<br>
> > > >> will see what the rest of the EC and NCSG members think.<br>
> > > >><br>
> > > >> On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 6:26 AM Raoul Plommer <<a href="mailto:plommer@gmail.com" target="_blank">plommer@gmail.com</a>><br>
> > wrote:<br>
> > > >><br>
> > > >>> Joly's case is exactly what I mean by unnecessarily removing him as a<br>
> > > >>> member of the NCSG and having to apply for a membership again.<br>
> > > >>><br>
> > > >>> -Raoul<br>
> > > >>><br>
> > > >>> On Mon, 10 Sep 2018 at 05:28, farzaneh badii <<br>
> > <a href="mailto:farzaneh.badii@gmail.com" target="_blank">farzaneh.badii@gmail.com</a>><br>
> > > >>> wrote:<br>
> > > >>><br>
> > > >>>> Hi Joly<br>
> > > >>>><br>
> > > >>>> I think that is a good idea and we should add this somewhere either<br>
> > in<br>
> > > >>>> this doc or somewhere that people who generally want to leave look<br>
> > for. If<br>
> > > >>>> you want to be an individual member, you can apply again at this<br>
> > link:<br>
> > > >>>> <a href="https://members.ncsg.is/membership_application" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://members.ncsg.is/membership_application</a><br>
> > > >>>><br>
> > > >>>> Maryam had sent you a confirmation email that our record has been<br>
> > > >>>> updated and Shilli is the primary rep. Seems like you have not been<br>
> > > >>>> unsubscribed from the NCSG mailing list. I wonder if you have been<br>
> > from<br>
> > > >>>> NCUC since you sent an email to that list and resigned specifically<br>
> > from<br>
> > > >>>> NCUC. That is another thing that procedurally we need to think but<br>
> > can be<br>
> > > >>>> relatively easy.<br>
> > > >>>><br>
> > > >>>> For now, you can re-apply, and we can unsubscribe you until your<br>
> > > >>>> membership is evaluated and announced.<br>
> > > >>>><br>
> > > >>>><br>
> > > >>>><br>
> > > >>>> Farzaneh<br>
> > > >>>><br>
> > > >>>><br>
> > > >>>> On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 9:48 PM Joly MacFie <<a href="mailto:joly@punkcast.com" target="_blank">joly@punkcast.com</a>><br>
> > wrote:<br>
> > > >>>><br>
> > > >>>>> So what is the process for someone like me, who no longer<br>
> > represents<br>
> > > >>>>> an org?<br>
> > > >>>>><br>
> > > >>>>> I recently formally announced my resignation to the list. I note<br>
> > that<br>
> > > >>>>> I am yet to be suspended / removed.<br>
> > > >>>>><br>
> > > >>>>> My suggestion would be that should happen, along there be some<br>
> > formal<br>
> > > >>>>> notice - "Thank you for your service. Here's how to apply for<br>
> > individual<br>
> > > >>>>> membership.."<br>
> > > >>>>><br>
> > > >>>>> j<br>
> > > >>>>><br>
> > > >>>>><br>
> > > >>>>><br>
> > > >>>>><br>
> > > >>>>><br>
> > > >>>>> On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 9:43 AM, farzaneh badii <<br>
> > > >>>>> <a href="mailto:farzaneh.badii@gmail.com" target="_blank">farzaneh.badii@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> > > >>>>><br>
> > > >>>>>> Raoul<br>
> > > >>>>>><br>
> > > >>>>>> These guidelines say that individual members cannot be official<br>
> > > >>>>>> representative of their orgs. We have to discuss the latter but<br>
> > we had many<br>
> > > >>>>>> conversations before the election whether individuals can be<br>
> > official reps<br>
> > > >>>>>> of their org as well and many agreed that no they should not be<br>
> > because<br>
> > > >>>>>> they get voting rights. Are you against the paragraph below?<br>
> > > >>>>>><br>
> > > >>>>>><br>
> > > >>>>>> "5. Can I be an individual member as well as the representative<br>
> > > >>>>>> member of my organization?<br>
> > > >>>>>><br>
> > > >>>>>> No, that is not possible. You need to decide whether you want to<br>
> > be<br>
> > > >>>>>> the official representative of your organization at NCSG, or if<br>
> > you want to<br>
> > > >>>>>> be an individual member and not represent your organization. "<br>
> > > >>>>>><br>
> > > >>>>>><br>
> > > >>>>>> We could clarify the last sentence that they can represent their<br>
> > > >>>>>> organization as an additional member of the org if they wish. But<br>
> > they<br>
> > > >>>>>> won't have voting rights.<br>
> > > >>>>>><br>
> > > >>>>>><br>
> > > >>>>>><br>
> > > >>>>>> On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 6:07 AM Raoul Plommer <<a href="mailto:plommer@gmail.com" target="_blank">plommer@gmail.com</a>><br>
> > > >>>>>> wrote:<br>
> > > >>>>>><br>
> > > >>>>>>> I would not go for removing the dual membership. I see no harm in<br>
> > > >>>>>>> having the individual having a personal and an organisational<br>
> > identity in<br>
> > > >>>>>>> the NCSG. It will create many repeat applications from people<br>
> > that are<br>
> > > >>>>>>> already active in our community, when they change organisation<br>
> > or they want<br>
> > > >>>>>>> to give room for new organisational representatives. They would<br>
> > then have<br>
> > > >>>>>>> to apply again and that's just a waste of time for everyone. IF<br>
> > we need to<br>
> > > >>>>>>> change something about it, it would be to remove the voting<br>
> > right of the<br>
> > > >>>>>>> other identity, basically, whichever had less weight.<br>
> > > >>>>>>><br>
> > > >>>>>>><br>
> > > >>>>>>> -Raoul<br>
> > > >>>>>>><br>
> > > >>>>>>> On Sun, 9 Sep 2018 at 01:22, farzaneh badii <<br>
> > > >>>>>>> <a href="mailto:farzaneh.badii@gmail.com" target="_blank">farzaneh.badii@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> > > >>>>>>><br>
> > > >>>>>>>> Hi all,<br>
> > > >>>>>>>><br>
> > > >>>>>>>> I have incorporated your comments as much as I could and sent<br>
> > this<br>
> > > >>>>>>>> document to the Executive Committee for approval as well.<br>
> > > >>>>>>>><br>
> > > >>>>>>>> This is to be reviewed by 14th of September.<br>
> > > >>>>>>>><br>
> > > >>>>>>>> Best<br>
> > > >>>>>>>> Farzaneh<br>
> > > >>>>>>>><br>
> > > >>>>>>>><br>
> > > >>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 3:59 AM farzaneh badii <<br>
> > > >>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:farzaneh.badii@gmail.com" target="_blank">farzaneh.badii@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> > > >>>>>>>><br>
> > > >>>>>>>>> All<br>
> > > >>>>>>>>><br>
> > > >>>>>>>>> This is a brief membership approval process and members<br>
> > > >>>>>>>>> application guideline.<br>
> > > >>>>>>>>><br>
> > > >>>>>>>>> It is in the format of Q and A so that it's easier to read and<br>
> > > >>>>>>>>> follow.<br>
> > > >>>>>>>>><br>
> > > >>>>>>>>> Please comment, this is not a complete document and we would<br>
> > like<br>
> > > >>>>>>>>> to complete it with your help:<br>
> > > >>>>>>>>><br>
> > > >>>>>>>>> Membership approval guidelines<br>
> > > >>>>>>>>><br>
> > > >>>>>>>>><br>
> > <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vb4a7KnsDwqQlKCMkQx2y8DlykYkT2z3ODxMweGcxTE/edit?usp=sharing" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vb4a7KnsDwqQlKCMkQx2y8DlykYkT2z3ODxMweGcxTE/edit?usp=sharing</a><br>
> > > >>>>>>>>><br>
> > > >>>>>>>>> We will have until 21 August to finalize, add and remove from<br>
> > the<br>
> > > >>>>>>>>> document and then send to NCSG EC for comments.<br>
> > > >>>>>>>>><br>
> > > >>>>>>>>> Best<br>
> > > >>>>>>>>><br>
> > > >>>>>>>>> Farzaneh<br>
> > > >>>>>>>>><br>
> > > >>>>>>>> --<br>
> > > >>>>>> Farzaneh<br>
> > > >>>>>><br>
> > > >>>>><br>
> > > >>>>><br>
> > > >>>>><br>
> > > >>>>> --<br>
> > > >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> > > >>>>> Joly MacFie 218 565 9365 Skype:punkcast<br>
> > > >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> > > >>>>> -<br>
> > > >>>>><br>
> > > >>>> --<br>
> > > >> Farzaneh<br>
> > > >><br>
> > > ><br>
> ><br>
</blockquote></div></div>
</div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><font face="verdana, sans-serif">Farzaneh </font></div></div></div>