[For comment] Membership approval guidelines

Tue Sep 11 03:09:35 EEST 2018

This on dual membership.  It seems perfectly logical to approve this. If
someone leaves the organisation they joined with they would remain members
until/unless they no longer fulfilled the core requirements for membership.
Why put them through another approval process? We have too little time for
more essential matters.  Where there is doubt the same procedures should be
followed as apply to all members.
best

On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 7:46 AM, Tapani Tarvainen <
ncsg at tapani.tarvainen.info> wrote:

> Hi Farzaneh,
>
> Given that our charter specifically requires them to be subject
> to membership approval, how was that done?
>
> Tapani
>
> On Sep 11 03:20, farzaneh badii (farzaneh.badii at gmail.com) wrote:
>
> > Tapani
> >
> > Those removal procedures were approved a couple of months ago and now on
> > the website:
> > https://community.icann.org/display/gnsononcomstake/
> Operating+Procedures#OperatingProcedures-169034239
> >
> > I did in the other document that I shared mention that if we ever want to
> > remove individual members that are official members of organizations, we
> > can add the provisions to the removal procedures.
> >
> > But we are not gonna do any of that now, so it's ok. If any future chair
> > and Exec Committee and NCSG community decided to revisit the rule they
> > should remember to add it to the removal procedure.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Farzaneh
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 3:13 AM Tapani Tarvainen <
> ncsg at tapani.tarvainen.info>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Farzaneh,
> > >
> > > What is the status of member removal procedures (that have
> > > been worked on for some time now)?
> > >
> > > Since all approaches to the "dual voting" scenario would seem to imply
> > > at least threat of removal, don't you think rules for handling them
> > > should be considered and ideally approved together with the removal
> > > procedures?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Tapani
> > >
> > > On Sep 11 02:48, farzaneh badii (farzaneh.badii at GMAIL.COM) wrote:
> > >
> > > > I thought about this Raoul again and read the previous threads
> looked at
> > > > the past discussions, looked at the dual members. I think I am going
> to
> > > > take the convenient approach and that is removing section 5 from the
> > > > document. As you said you are the only opposition (I think I saw a
> plus 1
> > > > from Farrell as well to one of your comments) but also I don't see
> much
> > > > discussion here in its support of the paragraph.  I guess you don't
> have
> > > an
> > > > opposition to the rest of the document? can we approve that with the
> EC?
> > > > People have been asking us for some guidelines for membership
> approval.
> > > > Would be good to have them in place before Stephanie becomes chair.
> > > >
> > > >  I was after documenting NCSG processes so that leading and running
> it
> > > > would be easier and less ad hoc and arbitrary.
> > > >
> > > >  I have added Robin Gross here. During Robin's term as chair, the
> > > practice
> > > > was that official reps could not be individual reps. This is just to
> > > > reassure the members that I am not creating things out of thin air
> and
> > > want
> > > > to impose them here before I leave!. But looking at some of Robin's
> > > > communications I have the impression that she could also agree with
> you
> > > > that when it comes to voting, dual members can just choose.I cc'd her
> > > here
> > > > to correct me or see if she wants to weigh in.
> > > >
> > > > I have provided my reasons as to why I don't agree with your
> approach. I
> > > > won't reiterate them. I still think I have a point. But a compromise
> here
> > > > doesn't really harm NCSG. So I let it go.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Farzaneh
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 8:45 AM Raoul Plommer <plommer at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > It would be a all too convenient to silence pretty much the only
> vocal
> > > > > opposition you've had to this arbitrary guideline so I'm not going
> to
> > > > > recuse myself.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've posited us an alternative solution that I think is far less
> > > > > bureaucratic and burdensome for our members and the EC. Until you
> can
> > > give
> > > > > me a better solution, I'm going to oppose these new guidelines.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Raoul
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, 10 Sep 2018 at 14:15, farzaneh badii <
> farzaneh.badii at gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Not that exactly Raoul. Joly was not an individual member in the
> first
> > > > >> place. But of course since he was a member for so long and doesn't
> > > seem to
> > > > >> have changed the noncommercial nature of his activities in DNS it
> can
> > > be an
> > > > >> easy fix.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> And we have not yet agreed on the rule not to have dual
> membership of
> > > > >> official reps as individual members too so really we don't remove
> > > those for
> > > > >> now, also applicable to you as you are still an individual member
> and
> > > an
> > > > >> official rep.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> if  there is enough agreement to do that among the EC members and
> the
> > > > >> NCSG in the future, we can do so and put the rule down hopefully
> > > before the
> > > > >> next elections.  since you are exactly in that situation I believe
> > > you have
> > > > >> to recuse yourself and let others talk. But that's my personal
> > > opinion and
> > > > >> will see what the rest of the EC and NCSG members think.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 6:26 AM Raoul Plommer <plommer at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> Joly's case is exactly what I mean by unnecessarily removing him
> as a
> > > > >>> member of the NCSG and having to apply for a membership again.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> -Raoul
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> On Mon, 10 Sep 2018 at 05:28, farzaneh badii <
> > > farzaneh.badii at gmail.com>
> > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> Hi Joly
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> I think that is a good idea and we should add this somewhere
> either
> > > in
> > > > >>>> this doc or somewhere that people who generally want to leave
> look
> > > for. If
> > > > >>>> you want to be an individual member, you can apply again at this
> > > link:
> > > > >>>> https://members.ncsg.is/membership_application
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Maryam had sent you a confirmation email that our record has
> been
> > > > >>>> updated and Shilli is the primary rep. Seems like you have not
> been
> > > > >>>> unsubscribed from the NCSG mailing list.  I wonder if you have
> been
> > > from
> > > > >>>> NCUC since you sent an email to that list and resigned
> specifically
> > > from
> > > > >>>> NCUC. That is another thing that procedurally we need to think
> but
> > > can be
> > > > >>>> relatively easy.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> For now, you can re-apply, and we can unsubscribe you until your
> > > > >>>> membership is evaluated and announced.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Farzaneh
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 9:48 PM Joly MacFie <joly at punkcast.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>> So what is the process for someone like me, who no longer
> > > represents
> > > > >>>>> an org?
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> I recently formally announced my resignation to the list. I
> note
> > > that
> > > > >>>>> I am yet to be suspended / removed.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> My suggestion would be that should happen, along there be some
> > > formal
> > > > >>>>> notice  - "Thank you for your service. Here's how to apply for
> > > individual
> > > > >>>>> membership.."
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> j
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 9:43 AM, farzaneh badii <
> > > > >>>>> farzaneh.badii at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Raoul
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> These guidelines say that individual members cannot be
> official
> > > > >>>>>> representative of their orgs. We have to discuss the latter
> but
> > > we had many
> > > > >>>>>> conversations before the election whether individuals can be
> > > official reps
> > > > >>>>>> of their org as well and many agreed that no they should not
> be
> > > because
> > > > >>>>>> they get voting rights. Are you against the  paragraph below?
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> "5. Can I be an individual member as well as the
> representative
> > > > >>>>>> member of my organization?
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> No, that is not possible. You need to decide whether you want
> to
> > > be
> > > > >>>>>> the official representative of your organization at NCSG, or
> if
> > > you want to
> > > > >>>>>> be an individual member and not represent your organization. "
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> We could clarify the last sentence that they can represent
> their
> > > > >>>>>> organization as an additional member of the org if they wish.
> But
> > > they
> > > > >>>>>> won't have voting rights.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 6:07 AM Raoul Plommer <
> plommer at gmail.com>
> > > > >>>>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> I would not go for removing the dual membership. I see no
> harm in
> > > > >>>>>>> having the individual having a personal and an organisational
> > > identity in
> > > > >>>>>>> the NCSG. It will create many repeat applications from people
> > > that are
> > > > >>>>>>> already active in our community, when they change
> organisation
> > > or they want
> > > > >>>>>>> to give room for new organisational representatives. They
> would
> > > then have
> > > > >>>>>>> to apply again and that's just a waste of time for everyone.
> IF
> > > we need to
> > > > >>>>>>> change something about it, it would be to remove the voting
> > > right of the
> > > > >>>>>>> other identity, basically, whichever had less weight.
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> -Raoul
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> On Sun, 9 Sep 2018 at 01:22, farzaneh badii <
> > > > >>>>>>> farzaneh.badii at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> I have incorporated your comments as much as I could and
> sent
> > > this
> > > > >>>>>>>> document to the Executive Committee for approval as well.
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> This is to be reviewed by 14th of September.
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Best
> > > > >>>>>>>> Farzaneh
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 3:59 AM farzaneh badii <
> > > > >>>>>>>> farzaneh.badii at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> All
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> This is a brief membership approval process and members
> > > > >>>>>>>>> application guideline.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> It is in the format of Q and A so that it's easier to read
> and
> > > > >>>>>>>>> follow.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Please comment, this is not a complete document and we
> would
> > > like
> > > > >>>>>>>>> to complete it with your help:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Membership approval guidelines
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vb4a7KnsDwqQlKCMkQx2y8DlykYkT
> 2z3ODxMweGcxTE/edit?usp=sharing
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> We will have until 21 August to finalize, add and remove
> from
> > > the
> > > > >>>>>>>>> document and then send to NCSG EC for comments.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Best
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Farzaneh
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> --
> > > > >>>>>> Farzaneh
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> --
> > > > >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
> > > > >>>>> Joly MacFie  218 565 9365 Skype:punkcast
> > > > >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >>>>> -
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>> --
> > > > >> Farzaneh
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > >
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-discuss/attachments/20180911/16b282b4/attachment.htm>