Attendance and Recording of the NCSG Policy Call on 15 August 2018 at 13:30 UTC
Rafik Dammak
rafik.dammak at GMAIL.COM
Wed Aug 15 18:08:36 EEST 2018
Dear All,
Please find attendance and recording of the *NCSG Policy Call on 15 August
2018 at 13:30 UTC*
*Attendance: *Amr Elsadr, Austin Ruckstuhl, Ayden Férdeline, Benjamin
Akinmoyeje, Claire Craig, Collin Kurre, Dajana Mulaj, Ekue Farell Folly,
Elsa Saade, Farzaneh Badii, Franco Giandana, James Njoeoge Gitau, Julf
Helsingius, Martin Silva Valent, Olévié Kouami, Olga Kyryliuk, Rafik
Dammak, Shah Zahidur Rahman, Stephanie Perrin, Tatiana Tropina, Tomslin
Samme-Nlar *ICANN Org.:* Ozan Sahin
*Mp3: *Attached
*Viewing Link*: *https://participate.icann.org/p830r8rowji/*
<https://participate.icann.org/p830r8rowji/?OWASP_CSRFTOKEN=3ca943f349df87af955c8d5215db2d9eda2bd36d5f880d31234961000af1026a>
*AC Chat:*
Ozan Sahin:Dear all, welcome to the NCSG Policy call on Wednesday, 15
August 2018 at 13:30 UTC
Rafik Dammak:hello all
Tatiana Tropina:Hi all
Franco Giandana:Hello all!
Ayden Férdeline:Hi all
Rafik Dammak:we will start in 1 or 2 min
Martín Silva Valent:hi
Rafik Dammak:if you are not speaking, please mute yourself
Tomslin Samme-Nlar:hello
Stephanie Perrin:Hi all!
Collin Kurre:Hi everyone
Amr Elsadr:Hi all.
Shah Zahidur Rahman:Hi Everyone
Stephanie Perrin:Who is 1734xxx please?
Stephanie Perrin:cutting out a lot AMr
Elsa Saade:hey everyone!
Amr Elsadr:Thanks.
Julf Helsingius:Apologies for joining late - got stuck in traffic
Tatiana Tropina:I am not comfortable with voting on this motion, I agree
with Farz that we need to raise the questions, esp with regard to what GNSO
said in 2017 (there is a reference to this in our comment)
Amr Elsadr:Report here:
https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/council/attachments/20180807/ab4b45f9/red-cross-protection-policy-amend-process-final-06aug18-en-0001.pdf
Amr Elsadr:Summary of recommendations at the beginning of the report.
Tatiana Tropina:I wonder if we have to vote tomorrow.
Tatiana Tropina:I wonder if we defer what's gotta change!
Amr Elsadr:Wouldn't mind a deferral.
Tatiana Tropina:I won't mind a deferral but at the end the report won't
change and we will vote no or abstain.
Tatiana Tropina:so we can just vote no or abstain with the statements.
Claire Craig:If we defer is there a timeframe?
Farzaneh Badii:I will read it. I wonder how carefully they read it :)
Amr Elsadr:We need to get real. Nobody from NCSG participated in this WG,
and the WG is submitted to the Council with Full Consensus of its members.
The motion will pass on Council, irrespective of our views/votes.
Tatiana Tropina:okay let's asl for a deferral tomorrow
Tatiana Tropina:Amr, that's what am saying, the deferral would be only to
strategise our abstentions/nos
Tatiana Tropina:and supermajority, yes
Elsa Saade:i tend to agree with Tatiana on this one
Amr Elsadr::-)
Tatiana Tropina:I am somewhere in the middile ground, I won't mind just
to vote no tomorrow
Tatiana Tropina:It's just stand on our ground. So instead of deferral we
can just say a big no right on the spot. But deferral is better, some fuss
:-)
Farzaneh Badii:I can help with the reason
Stephanie Perrin:Can we come up with a clear paragraph as to what we are
objecting to?
Tatiana Tropina:No requires no explanation, but abstention won't count.
Hmmmm. Hard choice, let's defer
Amr Elsadr:If our councilors would like this motion to be defered, should
be for a good reason. One reason might be to investigate whether or not the
WG has made its recommendations based on a legal basis, or not. If there is
a legal basis for these names to be reserved, then the WG should
demonstrate this. If there isn't...,
Tatiana Tropina:Farzaneh, the comment you drafted is really outlining all
the reasons very good, but if there is anything else you could add - am
sure we all will appreciate....
Farzaneh Badii:sure. I just have to check if they changed anything based
on our comments. I doubt it :)
Tatiana Tropina:Amr, do you think the reason that the WG chair promised
to get in contact with us and explain how our comments were addressed etc
etc is not a good reason? The fact that we need investigate... ?
Tatiana Tropina:I saw they still had the magic number 191...
Amr Elsadr:I have no idea, Tanya. This topic has been stuck in the GNSO's
throat for years, but I haven't followed this WG's work at all. I could
imagine a scenario where folks involved are so sick of it, they want to put
it behind them, and get the GAC off their backs.
Farzaneh Badii:would have been nice to know what changes they made
Tatiana Tropina:also second level still stays. Anyway, we have time to
check
Amr Elsadr:@Farzi: As for the public comment review tool used by the WG.
Amr Elsadr:*Ask
Tatiana Tropina:Amr it looked to me like everyone is just sick, yes.
Tatiana Tropina:Farz this one is for you
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_en_system_files_files_report-2Dcomments-2Dred-2Dcross-2Dprotection-2Dinitial-2D13aug18-2Den.pdf&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=SJoAZJPf4sll7c5HM-90jeUSDBNV8i1H6DgoihUn1_U&m=51nYcDqdDOcrM8k0vz8B69xsJxClrt896QByb3--dwI&s=72g7yLR_11q3NQJ23N-1IZA358CA_ULoibP_dHAJwR0&e=
Tatiana Tropina:Our comments warrant no changes.
Tatiana Tropina:so you don't even have to check the report: "Action
Taken: None, the comments do not warrant changes to the full consensus
recommendations."
Tatiana Tropina:Explains why the chair never got back. Okay then.
Tatiana Tropina:SORRY ! I moved.
Farzaneh Badii:!
Farzaneh Badii:thank you Tanya
Stephanie Perrin:Who was the WG Chair?
Rafik Dammak:Phil and Petter
Farzaneh Badii:is this GAC consensus advice?
Farzaneh Badii:how about we sell half of the Internet land to GAC. maybe
they will be satisfied
Stephanie Perrin:Ok then yes, PHil has been briefing us pretty thoroughly
on this one, I bet they are sick of it.
Stephanie Perrin:Over to you Board....
Farzaneh Badii:yes they have been briefing us on bad recommendations ...
I remember that
Stephanie Perrin:and the legal review they commissioned was top notch
Stephanie Perrin:Bottom line, Red Cross do not want to have to pay for
internet vigilence.
Amr Elsadr:It'll be a repeat of the RC situation.
Amr Elsadr:If the Board gives in to the GAC, which is of course, unheard
of. ;-)
Julf Helsingius:Amr: oh yes, that never happens. :)
Stephanie Perrin:Getting ready for another end run vis a vis
EPDP. Elliot v Manal, stay tuned....
Tatiana Tropina:sell to GAC? They would want it for free :-(
Farzaneh Badii:yup
Farzaneh Badii:free rides
Tatiana Tropina:The WS2 .. I guess we gotta stamp it. Even though they
didn't really address our comments
Stephanie Perrin:Strategically, do we want to object every time they
ignore our commentson principle, or do we abstain and make a statement?
Farzaneh Badii:I think abstain makes sense
Tatiana Tropina:Steph, I think in this case we rather vote yes. We can
flag that we are unhappy during the discussion
Tatiana Tropina:I am not ready to abstain from voting for WS2 to be
honest.
Stephanie Perrin:There are arguments on both sides. I am mentally
preparing for our comments on the RDS Review to be not implemented.
Tatiana Tropina:but Ombuddy. Yes, it's a *problem*
Tatiana Tropina:We might want to flag it during the discussion tomorrow?
Tatiana Tropina:saying yes, we can approve, but look there is a big
problem that we are forced to rubber stamp in bulk
Stephanie Perrin:I do think the feeling would be that we are just a bunch
of whiners
Farzaneh Badii:I think that's a good idea Tatiana. if that can be done.
Tatiana Tropina:Well if we vote no for this giant work of 16058 people
because of ombuddy....
Farzaneh Badii:just for our own records even
Stephanie Perrin:We need to publish statements which detail objections
for the record
Farzaneh Badii:haha
Farzaneh Badii:16058 will be after us
Benjamin Akinmoyeje (Nigeria):@stephanie why do you think our comments
will not be implemented in the RDS Review
Tatiana Tropina:I think we can just flag unhappiness on the record
tomorrow. I am making a note to myself. I can take the floor and say that
it's unfair that we are put into the situation when we object to one rec
strongly and have to rubber stamp
Stephanie Perrin:Benjamin, I have had a hard time getting them to listen
to me on the group. The chair is anti-privacy. The RDS Review is only
looking at the 2012 recommendations, which did very little for our
issues....it was all about accuracy and compliance.
Farzaneh Badii:it's insane that an anti privacy person is appointed as
chair
Farzaneh Badii:aat least a neutral one ...
Stephanie Perrin:Basically we are saying "GDPR will have an impact on
future WHOIS, but is not relevant to this review." We are not making new
meaningful recommendations. Folks are locked in Status quo. There is one
NCSG< one Registrar, and 4 GAC 4 ALAC
Amr Elsadr:RDS Reviews are scoped on the implementation of policies
already in place, no? And there was a desire to not overlap any of its work
with other ongoing RDS projects, like the Next-Gen RDS PDP?
Amr Elsadr:@Stephanie: I'd imagine that GDPR is actually out of scope of
the Review.
Stephanie Perrin:yes, but it is a bit crazy to have recommendations about
WHOIS that ignore GDPR.
Farzaneh Badii:oops I missed what Rafik said
Amr Elsadr:Not familiar with the contents of PDP 3.0, but will look into
it. Curious.
Farzaneh Badii:I got distracted. ...
Stephanie Perrin:5 years from now, we will be reviewing recommendations
which ignore GDPR....
Benjamin Akinmoyeje (Nigeria):I am still here with you Rafik
Amr Elsadr:@Stephanie: Hopefully, 5 years from now, you'll be reviewing
how the EPDP and RDS PDP outcomes played out.
Collin Kurre:And celebrating the successes of the multistakeholder model,
of course
Amr Elsadr:So shouldn't ignore GDPR. We need to develop policies that
address GDPR, before we get around to reviewing them.
Stephanie Perrin:True, Amr....I just am losing hope. NEed vitamins
perhaps....
Tatiana Tropina:there is no amount of vitamins that can restore hope. As
in that old saying "even with all the mayonnaise in the world you can't
make chicken salad out of chicken poop"
Benjamin Akinmoyeje (Nigeria):@Stephanie is it still possible to have a
WHOIS that will ignore GDPR, certainly I believe the EU will not let that
happen.
Tatiana Tropina:I can't imagine where the volunteers are going to be
found
Stephanie Perrin:Tat :-)
Farzaneh Badii:well Tat, vegans might disagree with you
Amr Elsadr:The policy is certainly necessary, so is an IAG to ensure that
the implementation of the policy is..., implementable.
Stephanie Perrin:If it starts up, it is dangerous, we have to staff
it. Maybe move the whole EPDP with backup over.....swarming.
Amr Elsadr:And this policy goes beyond the scope of GDPR. This policy
allows for contracted parties to raise issues with whatever national law is
applicable, GDPR or other.
Collin Kurre:agree with those objections, tatiana
Stephanie Perrin:I agree with Tat. But I think we are running into
procedural issues re the number of times a motion can be deferred....
Amr Elsadr:This group is an advisory group on implementation of an
already existing policy.
Stephanie Perrin:We have to resolve the motion tomorrow.
Tatiana Tropina:Yeah we do but it's *vvaaaaaaguuuuue*
Amr Elsadr:Not a motion, right? Just a discussion topic?
Tatiana Tropina:No no motion. We approved the charter. sigh.
Stephanie Perrin:Oh my mistake, I thought we were up against the time
limit....
Elsa Saade:that was my fear back when this was still in discussion mode
Stephanie Perrin:So we have no time limit on how long we can rag this
puck now?
Elsa Saade:at what point can the charter be reviewed ?
Collin Kurre:I don't think it's a good idea to have several parallel
processes addressing the same issue. On top of straining limited resources
(volunteer hours), it also risks producing conflicting / contradicting
outcomes
Stephanie Perrin:(must be repression setting in, yes we dealt with it
last time)
Amr Elsadr:Proposed charter here:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_drafts_draft-2Dicann-2Dprocedure-2Dwhois-2Dconflicts-2Diag-2D23jan18-2Den.pdf&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=SJoAZJPf4sll7c5HM-90jeUSDBNV8i1H6DgoihUn1_U&m=51nYcDqdDOcrM8k0vz8B69xsJxClrt896QByb3--dwI&s=0JIEcFcdud39u4jFmpdXOfdiYKmWZvc2Bt8wxA3WaGQ&e=
Tatiana Tropina:The main idea behind this entire thingy was that it will
deal with additional issue
Tatiana Tropina:issues
Farzaneh Badii:I support
Tatiana Tropina:so not like in parallel. But the problem is that until
you know what's on with EPDP you can't really see what's in parallel and
what's not!
Farzaneh Badii:i mean i support travel support of rapporteurs and
co-chair of pdps
Farzaneh Badii:oh it;s not a matter for discussion? ok
Tatiana Tropina:I think we just get updates on how helpful this support
is/ was
Collin Kurre:bingo tat and it's also hard to tackle this subject in a
logical, step-by-step way when all these ad-hoc proposals and groups keep
popping up
Collin Kurre:whack-a-mole
Tatiana Tropina:Collin, yeah totally.
Farzaneh Badii:it's a bad idea. can you scrap or delay it?
Farzaneh Badii:(the WHOIS conflict I meant)
Ayden Férdeline:good question Amr
Stephanie Perrin:we have to find a way....it is NUTS to keep doing this.
Ayden Férdeline:i presume the Chair has been notified
Stephanie Perrin:I thought we did get a note from Heather
Ayden Férdeline:but the EPDP is not being kept updated
Stephanie Perrin:Who is deciding on where that money will be spent
Tatiana Tropina:WHOIS conflict - I guess we can raise so many points in
discussion that the discussion will be deferred
Ayden Férdeline:similarly, various letters on the correspondence page
pertaining to the EPDP and addressed to the chaie have not been shared with
the EPDP team on the EPDP list
Ayden Férdeline:@stephanie Yes the Council did receive the letter, but
the EPDP team did not
Stephanie Perrin:Hmn, that should be an item for staff, no? the moment a
letter appears it should be sent.
Stephanie Perrin:Seems rather basic....\
Ayden Férdeline:I would have thought it was an item for the Chair, as it
is addressed to them
Amr Elsadr:Thanks, Rafik. Some follow up on this topic would be helpful.
Amr Elsadr:@Ayden: I haven't seen any follow-up to Cherine's letter on
the Council level either. Unless I missed it.
Ayden Férdeline:there were 2 responses, from Pam Little and someone else
Amr Elsadr:Ah..., thanks. Will check those out.
Ayden Férdeline:but more 'thanks for sending it' type of communications
Amr Elsadr::-)
Amr Elsadr:Well..., that's something. :-)
Stephanie Perrin:I will skip the GNSO to do it...not like anything ever
happens with GAC
Tatiana Tropina:GNSO/GAC can be skipped for a great cause surely
Stephanie Perrin:Exactly. I am so annoyed about this, I feel like using
my grant money to rent a room in the hotel and invite the DPAs to come to a
private session. Really, it sucks to be ignored.
Amr Elsadr:@Tanya: ..., or for a petty one. ;-)
Amr Elsadr:Anything but..., :)
Collin Kurre:what?!
Ayden Férdeline:five...
Tatiana Tropina:Amr :D :D :D
Amr Elsadr:Julf is stuck with the GAC, though, so best of luck to him!!
Julf Helsingius:Thanks. :)
Stephanie Perrin:Adam was having success getting a room at Amadeu Abril's
law school, but that will involve us all leaving the conference to go
offsite
Collin Kurre:we all remember their multistakeholder policy
recommendations! I can't believe they get that much bandwidth still! I
thought the sketchiness around the IP recs would have outed them as an
interest group through and through...
Ayden Férdeline:no it is not fair to have to leave the venue, as nice as
Barcelona is
Ayden Férdeline:the Board always has spare rooms they never use
Stephanie Perrin:COmplain to the CEO!!!!!!!!!
Stephanie Perrin: you have a meeting coming up.
Collin Kurre:^^
Amr Elsadr:Yes, Farzi. That sounds like a good topic for your meeting
with the CEO.
Stephanie Perrin:I really feel that I am wasting my time doing this
research project.
Farzaneh Badii:oh I will. list of complaints getting long :)
Amr Elsadr:So we can end the call 20 minutes early? :-)
Tatiana Tropina:Amr, wishful thinking
Farzaneh Badii:oh 20 minutes of life?
Farzaneh Badii:or I can talk to you about DNA :)))
Stephanie Perrin:Shall I write to the CEO with my proposal? Just to get
it on the record?
Ayden Férdeline:there is a hand raised
Farzaneh Badii:let me handle this Steph ... dont get excited
Farzaneh Badii:Rafik, Collin wants to talk
Collin Kurre:it's cool I can wait
Amr Elsadr:Your arm will get tired.
Collin Kurre:;)
Tatiana Tropina::D
Farzaneh Badii:your hand is blue now ...
Rafik Dammak:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_public-2Dcomments-23open-2Dpublic&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=SJoAZJPf4sll7c5HM-90jeUSDBNV8i1H6DgoihUn1_U&m=51nYcDqdDOcrM8k0vz8B69xsJxClrt896QByb3--dwI&s=PVrkI4MWuO0tcdZIZpo9Bykod3QoFJ227gdXiazrStQ&e=
Amr Elsadr:Yes.
Tatiana Tropina:Yes Collin
Franco Giandana:I am sorry I have to leave sooner, something came up! I
will be waiting for the minutes!
Collin Kurre:link to workshop for reference:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.intgovforum.org_multilingual_content_igf-2D2018-2Dws-2D349-2Da-2Dmultistakeholder-2Dapproach-2Dto-2Dhrias-2Dlessons-2Dfrom-2Dicann&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=SJoAZJPf4sll7c5HM-90jeUSDBNV8i1H6DgoihUn1_U&m=51nYcDqdDOcrM8k0vz8B69xsJxClrt896QByb3--dwI&s=v9o0Gv6sgUntZbem7bDCnD5CUUXCQ6wN7rIWFc2WDN4&e=
Stephanie Perrin:Sadly, I am not getting excited, I am circling the
Slough of Despond and the Depths of Despair (for non-english speakers, this
refers to a very famous Tome written centuries ago called Pilgrim's
Progress....very Christian fantasy novel by John Bunyan, required reading
for early American Protestants.... )
Collin Kurre:There will be a LOT going on! :D
Collin Kurre:New publications, new HRIA model, tapas...
Tatiana Tropina:15 min for EPDP and AOB O_o
Farzaneh Badii:EPDP? can I leave?
Amr Elsadr:Can I come with you?
Elsa Saade:haha get going guys
Tatiana Tropina:I am leaving with no warning :-)
Stephanie Perrin:No deserters, they will be shot
Elsa Saade:and kudos to you all
Rafik Dammak:Stephanie you need to be elected first :)
Julf Helsingius:Yes, but I have also had lots of conflicts
Amr Elsadr:Geez Stephanie!! Started cursing out loud. Thought you were
quitting the EPDP for a minute!!
Tatiana Tropina:Speth is you shoot all the deserters from this call we
would have almost no one on EPDP ;-)
Julf Helsingius:As I am there already....
Tatiana Tropina:*I made a typo in Steph's name ... I think it's almost
time to leave for me
Julf Helsingius:Stephanie: if nobody else is interested, I am OK being
the last resort of the audction proceeds wg
Amr Elsadr:There are some who would prefer to continue with a pointless
Review, just to avoid a precedent in abandoning accountability
safeguards/bylaw requirements, such as reviews. Or so they say...,
Ayden Férdeline:i am happy to review the initial report of Auction
Proceeds and work on the NCSG response... but i don't have the capacity to
follow that working group every week
Stephanie Perrin:I actually accept that rationale Amr....v dangerous to
let the CEO decide to cancel.
Amr Elsadr:But like you said, it's a waste of time, effort and money.
Collin Kurre:EPDP's just going round and round
Farzaneh Badii:haha
Collin Kurre:"I will volunteer... YOU"
Stephanie Perrin:Yes it is very very wearying. Thank goodness Volker is
there.
Ekue Farell FOLLY:hahhaha funny
Ayden Férdeline:4 calls thus far
Stephanie Perrin:For those of us who were on the RDS......it is like
going in circles forever. Dante's purgatorio....
Ayden Férdeline:and constant fire firefighting, as some attempt to
rewrite basic rules, i.e. the role of an alternate
Julf Helsingius:Circles forever - or the circling leading down a
whilrpool?
Stephanie Perrin:we could rewrite the trilogy, I think Dante got it
wrong. But then he had not experienced ICANN....
Stephanie Perrin:(sorry, not inspiring the new recruits to volunteer, am
I)
Collin Kurre:great summary Amr
Amr Elsadr:Actually forgot all about the early input!! Whoops!!
Stephanie Perrin:So unless someone else comes forward, Julf is our guy on
Auction Proceeds now, I will inform the group after the election closes...
Julf Helsingius:Not keen, but... :)
Stephanie Perrin:Perfect, I need to tell them I am departing first I
think Rafik....
Farzaneh Badii:oh come on. you are keen Julf
Stephanie Perrin:Would a post mortem on it be useful?
Collin Kurre:Absolutely.
Collin Kurre:imo
Stephanie Perrin:I think so too.....we need more sessions, not similar to
this topic.
Collin Kurre:Agree that those are very useful skills, Farz
Julf Helsingius:I agree, Stephanie
Rafik Dammak:the consultant cannot help for pdp or other susbtance
matters because it is not his field
Amr Elsadr:Number 1 barrier is ability to commit time and effort. All
other barriers can be overcome, if this one can.
Farzaneh Badii:we have been working on that Stephanie.
Farzaneh Badii:I have been doing webinars on it, I share slides with
them,. it's a matter of "reading"
Collin Kurre:To be fair ICANN org doesn't always help. Their comms lately
have leant themselves to a wider interpretation of mandate (i.e. references
to fake news, etc)
Austin Ruckstuhl:Stephanie, how about you just mentor me as a newcomer!
;)
Farzaneh Badii:great idea Austin
Amr Elsadr:@Farzi: Yes..., "reading" is part of the "effort" required.
Amr Elsadr:New members should really try to ask questions, especially
during these calls. Many of us would be happy to answer any.
Julf Helsingius:"you need to be patient" applies to pretty much
everything in ICANN
Stephanie Perrin:Happy to mentor you Austin, just ask me questions!
Amr Elsadr:"you need to have thick skin" is another.
Stephanie Perrin:I think we need quizzes. When people cannot answer the
questions, we provide references. Sort of a self learning tool.
Collin Kurre:I could use some help in the CCWP-HR. I'm happy to mentor,
instruct, and parcel out small tasks to newcomers who are interested in the
topic of ICANN and human rights. Perhaps allowing people to start off
mastering one little corner of the ecosystem is a useful approach.
Farzaneh Badii:hahaha
Claire Craig:Thanks for that comment Farzaneh
Amr Elsadr:@Collin: Mastering one little corner is extremely useful.
Austin Ruckstuhl:Thanks everyone. I love the idea of a quiz! Thanks
Stephanie
Tatiana Tropina:HR group is a great way to get engaged, I can confirm :-)
Claire Craig:really appreciated, because it can be quite overwhelming
Stephanie Perrin:Mine is so thick that when Fik tells me to be concise, I
don't even hear it anymore....
Amr Elsadr:@Stephanie: haha!!
Amr Elsadr:Thanks all. Bye.
Tatiana Tropina:yay. Thanks all!
Stephanie Perrin:Thanks Fik for Chairing1
Tatiana Tropina:bye
Claire Craig:bye
Julf Helsingius:Thanks all!
Farzaneh Badii:bye all
Ayden Férdeline:thanks all
Olga Kyryliuk:Thanks, bye
Kind regards,
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