[NCSG-PC] [URGENT] NCSG Statement on the ALAC Review

Stephanie Perrin stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
Fri Mar 24 17:15:03 EET 2017 

I tend to agree with Avri and is not really a useful comment on the 
paper, is it?

No point in starting a war with an inflammatory comment IMHO.

cheers Steph


On 2017-03-24 08:00, avri doria wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Thank you for accepting most of the edits.
>
> I read through it again since I could not find the notes on the edits
> you did not accept.  Found 2 more typos while doing it that I have
> suggested edits for.
>
> Also I see you retained:
>
>> *We are hesitant to note - but feel an obligation to lay this fact on
>> the table - that the NCSG accomplishes as much, if not more, than
>> At-Large does, while receiving only a fraction of the support.*
> to which I commented:
>
> This is boastful, and unverifiable. I wonder if it is true. And wonder
> what the metrics are for determining this.Also as pointed out a few
> times in terms of budget, the ALC/At-Large is the equivalent,
> organizationally of G-Council and GSNO. I think it adds nothing but
> fight to the note. . If budgets and output are to be compared, that
> would be a more appropriate comparison.Not that I recommend saying that
> either.  It is not a competition.
>
> In any case, as an observer, at this point will not object to this
> comment as currently offered.
>
> Avri
>
> On 24-Mar-17 04:32, Ayden Férdeline wrote:
>> Thank you for the edits, Avri. I have accepted nearly all of them, and
>> commented in the document where I have not.
>>
>> I would now like to collect individual PC signatories [Observers are
>> welcome to sign on, too].
>>
>> Unless I hear objections otherwise, I propose that if 2/3 of PC
>> members sign on, this statement be adopted as the NCSG statement. If
>> it is not adopted, those who express their support on the list now
>> will be named as signatories, and of course non-PC members may sign on
>> too. Thanks.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Ayden
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 4:00 am, avri doria <avri at apc.org
>> <mailto:avri at apc.org>> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I thank you taking on the thankless task of writing the first draft. As
>>> you know I had many issues with that first draft, and do believe I was
>>> specific about what those were.
>>>
>>> In any case, the rework Stephanie did has made it much easier for me to
>>> not object (i know i don't have a vote, just a voice). I have layered
>>> some more edits on Stephanie's revision. While I still do not agree
>>> with everything it says, I know that the things I have problems with are
>>> things others in the NCSG probably support and do not have an objection
>>> to them, though in some cases I have tried to make it a bit more
>>> diplomatic.
>>>
>>> I hope my suggested edits are acceptable.
>>>
>>> avri
>>>
>>>
>>> On 23-Mar-17 19:09, Ayden Férdeline wrote:
>>>> The statement is still a work in progress, and is not complete. I will
>>>> continue working on it tonight, and encourage others to share feedback
>>>> on how they believe it should be edited so they are comfortable
>>> with it.
>>>> Whether or not the PC endorses it is a discussion to be had tomorrow,
>>>> once it is in a more complete stage. Certainly I would hope an
>>>> endorsement was forthcoming, but if it isn't, I also understand that
>>>> is a possible outcome.
>>>>
>>>> If people would like to have a substantive discussion on the comments,
>>>> it would actually make it a lot easier to write so please feel free to
>>>> do so... :-)
>>>>
>>>> That said, if someone does not wish to endorse the comments, it would
>>>> be helpful to know specifically what within the text they do not
>>> support.
>>>> Yes, these comments have been written quickly and there has not been
>>>> much time for discussion, but we do not have a documented process for
>>>> seeking the PC's endorsement and I have been on the PC for fewer than
>>>> 3 months. Until such time as there is a process, all I can do is
>>>> propose text in the hopes that others will jump in and offer
>>>> constructive thoughts on a different direction to be taken, if
>>>> applicable.
>>>>
>>>> Ayden
>>>>
>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>> From: matthew shears <mshears at cdt.org <mailto:mshears at cdt.org>>
>>>> Date: On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 10:27 pm
>>>> Subject: Fwd: Re: Fwd: [DRAFT] NCSG Statement on the ALAC Review
>>>> To: PC-NCSG <pc-ncsg at ipjustice.org
>>>> <mailto:pc-ncsg at ipjustice.org>>,Ayden Férdeline <icann at ferdeline.com
>>>> <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>>
>>>> CC:
>>>>> Hi all
>>>>>
>>>>> I am conscious of the impending deadline for these comments
>>>>> (tomorrow). I recognize that Ayden has put time and thought into
>>>>> proposing comments for NCSG's consideration. This said, we have had
>>>>> no substantive discussion of these comments and their merit on the
>>>>> list or in the PC, nor have we had, realistically, sufficient time to
>>>>> do so. Because of this I do not feel that I, as a member of the PC,
>>>>> can endorse these comments for NCSG.
>>>>>
>>>>> The NCSG PC should have a better process in place for ensuring that
>>>>> there is time to do so in the future and we will, hopefully, be
>>>>> rectifying this promptly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Matthew
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 23/03/2017 11:33, matthew shears wrote:
>>>>>> Hello PC
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Teeing this up as comments are due tomorrow. Please review these
>>>>>> suggested inputs carefully.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Related docs can be found here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>> https://www.icann.org/public-comments/atlarge-review-draft-report-2017-02-01-en
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your thoughts/suggestions in the google doc (below) are appreciated
>>>>>> asap.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Matthew
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>>>>> Subject: [DRAFT] NCSG Statement on the ALAC Review
>>>>>> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 10:52:33 -0400
>>>>>> From: Ayden Férdeline <icann at FERDELINE.COM>
>>>>>> Reply-To: Ayden Férdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>
>>>>>> To: NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Greetings all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have drafted up on Google Docs
>>>>>>
>>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZgdafZs4KBENsb-Kl9GO0l_Bh4gYdQd6F-ORpZPr27s/edit?usp=sharing>
>>>
>>>>>> some comments on behalf of the NCSG regarding the Review of the
>>>>>> At-Large community. This is a really rough draft, and I'd welcome
>>>>>> your feedback on what arguments should be refined, what I might have
>>>>>> missed, or what we might want to remain silent on. I'm not happy
>>>>>> with it at the moment, but I figured it would be better to get some
>>>>>> words down onto paper, and we can refine this together... so please
>>>>>> take a read of the proposed statement here
>>>>>>
>>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZgdafZs4KBENsb-Kl9GO0l_Bh4gYdQd6F-ORpZPr27s/edit?usp=sharing>,
>>>
>>>>>> with the understanding that it's definitely a work-in-progress. And
>>>>>> please share your thoughts, either in the document itself or on this
>>>>>> mailing list!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Comments are due in three days, so we don't have too long to get
>>>>>> this together unfortunately. You can read the draft report here
>>>>>>
>>> <https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/atlarge-review-draft-report-31jan17-en.pdf>
>>> (PDF
>>>>>> link) if you haven't seen it already.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> /A friendly note to those ALAC members who read the NCSG mailing
>>>>>> list: this statement is a work-in-progress, it has not been endorsed
>>>>>> yet by the NCSG Policy Committee, and it will likely change between
>>>>>> now and the time it is submitted (if it is submitted)./
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ayden Férdeline
>>>>>> linkedin.com/in/ferdeline <http://www.linkedin.com/in/ferdeline>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
>>>
>>>>>> Virus-free. www.avg.com
>>>>>>
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>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> ------------
>>>>> Matthew Shears
>>>>> Global Internet Policy and Human Rights
>>>>> Center for Democracy & Technology (CDT)
>>>>> + 44 771 2472987
>>>>
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