[PC-NCSG] Fwd: Vice Chair Position -- CSG support
Avri Doria
avri
Tue Feb 12 03:29:54 EET 2013
Hi,
I think that with Chris' intervention, that will not happen. It is certainly not the intent.
Don't get me wrong, I have not become a trusting soul, I just don't think he is being that sneaky.
avri
On 11 Feb 2013, at 18:06, Robin Gross wrote:
> I see your concern, Mary. Thanks. Steve's a slippery one. What if we re-worded point 2 as follows?:
>
> "2. NCSG is entitled to put forward the initial sole candidate for the following year (2013-14). This candidate would have to get 8 votes to be selected."
>
> It is currently:
> "2. NCSG will have the privilege to put forward a candidate for the following year (2013-14). This candidate would have to get 8 votes to be selected."
>
> Would that fix the possible difference in interpretation?
>
> Thanks again,
> Robin
>
>
> On Feb 11, 2013, at 2:57 PM, <Mary.Wong at law.unh.edu> wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Robin - and thanks for shepherding this whole thing through this long-drawn out process. Just one question - does Steve M's email stating that NCSG will have the "privilege" of putting up a candidate next year mean that there is NO agreement on rotation, i.e. that CSG may well also put up its own candidate, in which case there'll be a contested election and the winner will need 8 votes?
>>
>> Cheers
>> Mary
>>
>>
>> Mary W S Wong
>> Professor of Law
>> Director, Franklin Pierce Center for IP
>> Chair, Graduate IP Programs
>> UNIVERSITY OF NEW HAMPSHIRE SCHOOL OF LAW
>> Two White Street
>> Concord, NH 03301
>> USA
>> Email: mary.wong at law.unh.edu
>> Phone: 1-603-513-5143
>> Webpage: http://www.law.unh.edu/marywong/index.php
>> Selected writings available on the Social Science Research Network (SSRN) at: http://ssrn.com/author=437584
>>
>>
>>>>>
>> From:
>> Robin Gross <robin at ipjustice.org>
>> To:
>> NCSG-Policy <PC-NCSG at ipjustice.org>
>> Date:
>> 2/10/2013 11:31 PM
>> Subject:
>> [PC-NCSG] Fwd: Vice Chair Position -- CSG support
>> FYI
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>>> From: Chris LaHatte <chris.lahatte at icann.org>
>>> Date: February 9, 2013 10:28:15 PM PST
>>> To: Robin Gross <robin at ipjustice.org>, "Metalitz, Steven" <met at msk.com>
>>> Cc: Avri Doria <avri at acm.org>, Tony Holmes <tonyarholmes at btinternet.com>, Marilyn Cade <marilynscade at hotmail.com>, Kristina Rosette <krosette at cov.com>, "Wendy Seltzer (wendy at seltzer.com)" <wendy at seltzer.com>, Wolfgang Kleinw?chter <wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
>>> Subject: RE: Vice Chair Position -- CSG support
>>>
>>
>>> And I confirm I am happy to facilitate such discussions
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Chris LaHatte
>>> Ombudsman
>>> Blog https://omblog.icann.org/
>>> Facebook http://www.facebook.com/ICANNOmbudsman
>>> Webpage http://www.icann.org/en/help/ombudsman
>>>
>>>
>>> Confidentiality
>>> All matters brought before the Ombudsman shall be treated as confidential. The Ombudsman shall also take all reasonable steps necessary to preserve the privacy of, and to avoid harm to, those parties not involved in the complaint being investigated by the Ombudsman.The Ombudsman shall only make inquiries about, or advise staff or Board members of the existence and identity of, a complainant in order to further the resolution of the complaint. The Ombudsman shall take all reasonable steps necessary to ensure that if staff and Board members are made aware of the existence and identity of a complainant, they agree to maintain the confidential nature of such information, except as necessary to further the resolution of a complaint
>>>
>>> From: Robin Gross [mailto:robin at ipjustice.org]
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 11:07 AM
>>> To: Metalitz, Steven
>>> Cc: Chris LaHatte; Avri Doria; Tony Holmes; Marilyn Cade; Kristina Rosette; Wendy Seltzer (wendy at seltzer.com); Wolfgang Kleinw?chter
>>> Subject: Re: Vice Chair Position -- CSG support
>>>
>>> Thank you Steve. Yes, we can agree to this process to move us forward with the issue of a Vice Chair for our house. The only additional request is that we'd like for the ombudsman to participate in the negotiations to set the procedures for 2014 (point 3 below).
>>>
>>> Thanks again,
>>> Robin
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 5, 2013, at 11:10 AM, Metalitz, Steven wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Chris,
>>>
>>> Thank you again for facilitating our brief but productive meeting last week in Los Angeles.
>>>
>>> I can now confirm that the CSG can support the following approach which emerged from the meeting:
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. Wolf-Ulrich Knoben will continue as vice chair until the 2013 annual meeting (Buenos Aires). There will be no election.
>>> 2. NCSG will have the privilege to put forward a candidate for the following year (2013-14). This candidate would have to get 8 votes to be selected.
>>> 3. We will meet as a house no later than the London (mid-2014) meeting to set the procedures that would apply for the term following the 2014 annual meeting (and perhaps beyond).
>>>
>>> (When we met in LA I was under the impression that the second meeting of CY 2014 was in Singapore. It seems ? though the ICANN announcement is not explicit ? that it will be in London. In any case, the reference in point 3 is to the second meeting of CY 2014 as the outside date for this discussion.)
>>>
>>> If the NCSG representatives can confirm their SG?s approval of this approach, then I believe we can put this matter behind us.
>>>
>>> Thanks again to all for your respective roles in reaching this conclusion.
>>>
>>> Steve Metalitz
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Chris LaHatte [mailto:chris.lahatte at icann.org]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 4:26 PM
>>> To: Metalitz, Steven
>>> Cc: Robin Gross; Avri Doria; Tony Holmes; Marilyn Cade; Kristina Rosette; Wendy Seltzer (wendy at seltzer.com); Wolfgang Kleinw?chter
>>> Subject: RE: Vice Chair Position
>>>
>>> I am on my way
>>>
>>> Chris LaHatte
>>> Ombudsman
>>> Blog https://omblog.icann.org/
>>> Facebook http://www.facebook.com/ICANNOmbudsman
>>> Webpage http://www.icann.org/en/help/ombudsman
>>>
>>>
>>> Confidentiality
>>> All matters brought before the Ombudsman shall be treated as confidential. The Ombudsman shall also take all reasonable steps necessary to preserve the privacy of, and to avoid harm to, those parties not involved in the complaint being investigated by the Ombudsman.The Ombudsman shall only make inquiries about, or advise staff or Board members of the existence and identity of, a complainant in order to further the resolution of the complaint. The Ombudsman shall take all reasonable steps necessary to ensure that if staff and Board members are made aware of the existence and identity of a complainant, they agree to maintain the confidential nature of such information, except as necessary to further the resolution of a complaint
>>>
>>> From: Metalitz, Steven [mailto:met at msk.com]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 1:23 PM
>>> To: Chris LaHatte
>>> Cc: Robin Gross; Avri Doria; Tony Holmes; Marilyn Cade; Kristina Rosette; Wendy Seltzer (wendy at seltzer.com); Wolfgang Kleinw?chter
>>> Subject: Re: Vice Chair Position
>>>
>>> Mockapetris room is available. Shall we convene there?
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 30, 2013, at 12:14 PM, "Chris LaHatte" <chris.lahatte at icann.org> wrote:
>>> I am in room 412 which is a bit small-depending on who can make it here-It could fit about 6-7 at the most
>>>
>>> Chris LaHatte
>>> Ombudsman
>>> Blog https://omblog.icann.org/
>>> Facebook http://www.facebook.com/ICANNOmbudsman
>>> Webpage http://www.icann.org/en/help/ombudsman
>>>
>>>
>>> Confidentiality
>>> All matters brought before the Ombudsman shall be treated as confidential. The Ombudsman shall also take all reasonable steps necessary to preserve the privacy of, and to avoid harm to, those parties not involved in the complaint being investigated by the Ombudsman.The Ombudsman shall only make inquiries about, or advise staff or Board members of the existence and identity of, a complainant in order to further the resolution of the complaint. The Ombudsman shall take all reasonable steps necessary to ensure that if staff and Board members are made aware of the existence and identity of a complainant, they agree to maintain the confidential nature of such information, except as necessary to further the resolution of a complaint
>>>
>>> From: Metalitz, Steven [mailto:met at msk.com]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:48 AM
>>> To: Chris LaHatte
>>> Cc: Robin Gross; Avri Doria; Tony Holmes; Marilyn Cade; Kristina Rosette; Wendy Seltzer (wendy at seltzer.com); Wolfgang Kleinw?chter
>>> Subject: Re: Vice Chair Position
>>>
>>> So about 1:30?
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 30, 2013, at 11:41 AM, "Chris LaHatte" <chris.lahatte at icann.org> wrote:
>>> I can meet at lunch-we will need to find somewhere, but I am sure we can
>>>
>>> Chris LaHatte
>>> Ombudsman
>>> Blog https://omblog.icann.org/
>>> Facebook http://www.facebook.com/ICANNOmbudsman
>>> Webpage http://www.icann.org/en/help/ombudsman
>>>
>>>
>>> Confidentiality
>>> All matters brought before the Ombudsman shall be treated as confidential. The Ombudsman shall also take all reasonable steps necessary to preserve the privacy of, and to avoid harm to, those parties not involved in the complaint being investigated by the Ombudsman.The Ombudsman shall only make inquiries about, or advise staff or Board members of the existence and identity of, a complainant in order to further the resolution of the complaint. The Ombudsman shall take all reasonable steps necessary to ensure that if staff and Board members are made aware of the existence and identity of a complainant, they agree to maintain the confidential nature of such information, except as necessary to further the resolution of a complaint
>>>
>>> From: Robin Gross [mailto:robin at ipjustice.org]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:38 AM
>>> To: Chris LaHatte
>>> Cc: Steven Metalitz; Avri Doria; Tony Holmes; Marilyn Cade; Kristina Rosette; Wendy Seltzer (wendy at seltzer.com); Wolfgang Kleinw?chter
>>> Subject: Re: Vice Chair Position
>>>
>>> Thanks, Chris and Steve. How about a chat after the CEO speaks during lunch?
>>>
>>> Robin
>>>
>>> On Jan 30, 2013, at 11:14 AM, Chris LaHatte wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for this. I have seen at least some of the exchanges. I am available except for a meeting at 3 today for about an hour, and tomorrow at 10, and at 1 to 3.45 tomorrow for a meeting with the board. I can meet early morning late evening-whenever suits.
>>>
>>> Can I encapsulate the issue as to
>>>
>>> 1. Was the agreement to rotate the nomination a long term agreement or one off only?
>>> 2. Is there any reason why, if it was one off only, why you could not agree to let the nomination proceed?
>>> By use of the term ?you? I mean both constituencies.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Chris LaHatte
>>> Ombudsman
>>> Blog https://omblog.icann.org/
>>> Facebook http://www.facebook.com/ICANNOmbudsman
>>> Webpage http://www.icann.org/en/help/ombudsman
>>>
>>>
>>> Confidentiality
>>> All matters brought before the Ombudsman shall be treated as confidential. The Ombudsman shall also take all reasonable steps necessary to preserve the privacy of, and to avoid harm to, those parties not involved in the complaint being investigated by the Ombudsman.The Ombudsman shall only make inquiries about, or advise staff or Board members of the existence and identity of, a complainant in order to further the resolution of the complaint. The Ombudsman shall take all reasonable steps necessary to ensure that if staff and Board members are made aware of the existence and identity of a complainant, they agree to maintain the confidential nature of such information, except as necessary to further the resolution of a complaint
>>>
>>> From: Metalitz, Steven [mailto:met at msk.com]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:07 AM
>>> To: Chris LaHatte; Robin Gross
>>> Cc: Avri Doria; Tony Holmes; Marilyn Cade; Kristina Rosette; Wendy Seltzer (wendy at seltzer.com)
>>> Subject: RE: Vice Chair Position
>>>
>>> Chris,
>>>
>>> CSG remains glad to speak with you and with NCSG and welcomes your efforts to resolve this. Perhaps we could find a few minutes this afternoon (I note the slot from 1:30 to 3 includes the possibility of break out sessions.
>>>
>>> We disagree with the characterizations below on factual grounds. As you already have the documentation on what the agreement and where things now stand, I won?t repeat it here. Glad to focus on solutions going forward.
>>>
>>> Steve Metalitz, IPC
>>>
>>> From: Chris LaHatte [mailto:chris.lahatte at icann.org]
>>> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 8:26 PM
>>> To: Robin Gross
>>> Cc: Avri Doria; Metalitz, Steven; Tony Holmes; Marilyn Cade; Kristina Rosette; Wendy Seltzer (wendy at seltzer.com)
>>> Subject: RE: Vice Chair Position
>>>
>>> I am available to talk and perhaps discuss matters separately or together. I just bumped into Marilyn Cade who does want to talk, so perhaps something can be done
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Chris LaHatte
>>> Ombudsman
>>> Blog https://omblog.icann.org/
>>> Facebook http://www.facebook.com/ICANNOmbudsman
>>> Webpage http://www.icann.org/en/help/ombudsman
>>>
>>>
>>> Confidentiality
>>> All matters brought before the Ombudsman shall be treated as confidential. The Ombudsman shall also take all reasonable steps necessary to preserve the privacy of, and to avoid harm to, those parties not involved in the complaint being investigated by the Ombudsman.The Ombudsman shall only make inquiries about, or advise staff or Board members of the existence and identity of, a complainant in order to further the resolution of the complaint. The Ombudsman shall take all reasonable steps necessary to ensure that if staff and Board members are made aware of the existence and identity of a complainant, they agree to maintain the confidential nature of such information, except as necessary to further the resolution of a complaint
>>>
>>> From: Robin Gross [mailto:robin at ipjustice.org]
>>> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 5:21 PM
>>> To: Chris LaHatte
>>> Cc: Avri Doria; Steven Metalitz; Tony Holmes; Marilyn Cade; Kristina Rosette; Wendy Seltzer (wendy at seltzer.com)
>>> Subject: Re: Vice Chair Position
>>>
>>> Dear Chris,
>>>
>>> I would definitely like to resolve this situation this week in LA while we are here. However, we thought we had come to an agreement to rotate turns nominating VC candidates, and if the CSG is not willing to honor that agreement we wonder how useful it would be to try to reach a "new" agreement with them. Since their VC continues on indefinitely, as long as they don't agree to do anything else, there is no incentive for CSG to make or to honor agreements. Given CSG's refusal to rotate turns means their candidate remains VC indefinitely, why would CSG agree to do anything?
>>>
>>> Hope you have some useful suggestions for how we can resolve this impasse. Or does NCSG need to file a "complaint" with the ombudsman to get CSG's attention?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Robin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 28, 2013, at 2:30 PM, Avri Doria wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> To be honest, I do not see any way beyond this impasse. NCSG believes we had an agreement that was unilaterally abrogated by CSG. CSG seems to beleive there was no agreement.
>>>
>>> I see no point on coming to any further agreements without some expectation that the agreement would be honored.
>>>
>>> I suggest we just tell the g-council chair that the NCPH, such as it is, is unable to come to agreement on how to elect a vice chair and go without one. It is obvious that the leadership of the g-counci is permanently in CPH hands, so we might as well sit back, relax and quit trying to find agreement in a circumstance where agreement is illogical.
>>>
>>> Chris, thanks for your willingness to moderate this issue, but I do not see the point of trying.
>>>
>>> avri
>>>
>>>
>>> On 28 Jan 2013, at 13:48, Chris LaHatte wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear people
>>> I thought I should mention that I am in the Los Angeles office and available if needed on this issue. I leave on Saturday 2nd February at 10 pm so subject to my meetings schedule, I am able to meet if you want to
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Chris LaHatte
>>> Ombudsman
>>> Blog https://omblog.icann.org/
>>> Facebook http://www.facebook.com/ICANNOmbudsman
>>> Webpage http://www.icann.org/en/help/ombudsman
>>>
>>>
>>> Confidentiality
>>> All matters brought before the Ombudsman shall be treated as confidential. The Ombudsman shall also take all reasonable steps necessary to preserve the privacy of, and to avoid harm to, those parties not involved in the complaint being investigated by the Ombudsman.The Ombudsman shall only make inquiries about, or advise staff or Board members of the existence and identity of, a complainant in order to further the resolution of the complaint. The Ombudsman shall take all reasonable steps necessary to ensure that if staff and Board members are made aware of the existence and identity of a complainant, they agree to maintain the confidential nature of such information, except as necessary to further the resolution of a complaint
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> IP JUSTICE
>>> Robin Gross, Executive Director
>>> 1192 Haight Street, San Francisco, CA 94117 USA
>>> p: +1-415-553-6261 f: +1-415-462-6451
>>> w: http://www.ipjustice.org e: robin at ipjustice.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> IP JUSTICE
>>> Robin Gross, Executive Director
>>> 1192 Haight Street, San Francisco, CA 94117 USA
>>> p: +1-415-553-6261 f: +1-415-462-6451
>>> w: http://www.ipjustice.org e: robin at ipjustice.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> IP JUSTICE
>>> Robin Gross, Executive Director
>>> 1192 Haight Street, San Francisco, CA 94117 USA
>>> p: +1-415-553-6261 f: +1-415-462-6451
>>> w: http://www.ipjustice.org e: robin at ipjustice.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
> IP JUSTICE
> Robin Gross, Executive Director
> 1192 Haight Street, San Francisco, CA 94117 USA
> p: +1-415-553-6261 f: +1-415-462-6451
> w: http://www.ipjustice.org e: robin at ipjustice.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> PC-NCSG mailing list
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