[NCSG-FC] [Ext] ICANN64 FC meeting preparations

[Thato Mfikwe]

Hey Bruna,

This conversation has no business with gender, the pejudice and gender card
is not developmental. We engaging each other as FC members, if you have
difficulty dealing with the opposite gender, then I am not sure how I can
help. Personally, in my past and current professional life, I worked with
women and have been led by them before, disagreements and resistance are
two different terms based on perception and eperience. This is actually the
first time, such a prejudice insinuation has been made in my name.

I control my emotions to uphold respect, even if I do not agree with
proceedings. I tend to listen to understand not react in potential
disagreements or arguements, that is what I meant in a more detailed sense.

Most of the suggestions made are already documented in the FC action plan
<https://community.icann.org/display/gnsononcomstake/Finance+Committee#Information--640009899>,
another challenge in moving forward with the action plan is capacity to
deliver with very few members, the new FC will also need capacity and
support to fully implement the FC action plan.

Thato Mfikwe.

On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 3:49 AM Bruna Martins dos Santos <
bruna.mrtns at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Thato and Remmy,
>
> I agree with you both that we cannot continue with so many disagreements,
> it takes far too much time from all of us (especially when I have the NCUC
> Agenda for the Kobe meeting to finalize).
>
> The reason why we opened the call for NCUC Appointee to the Finance
> committee was solely based on the end of Thato's term. I might have my
> concerns with some recent concerns regarding the FC but I havent disclosed
> them in details to the NCUC EC. Thato, I also believe your comment on the
> lack of confidence in your participation at this commitee is not very
> accurate. I have tried to chatting with you in order to understand how
> could I help you and the FC from the NCUC perspective but there seems to be
> some sort of resistance to me - or on the fact that I am a female colleague
> based on the fact that you questioned my lack of 'control' for my emotions.
>
> Once again, the reason why I am on this list (as an observer) is based on
> the fact that I do want to contribute to the FC work. And when I advised
> you to reapply for the position I really meant it, @Thato Mfikwe
> <thatomfikwe at gmail.com>. When I mentioned that I would have liked to see
> you both engaged with the comment is due to the fact that I consider you
> both apt for the job and the merit of the comment pretty much aligned with
> the FC activities. Maybe by doing this kind of work we can get you more
> fine tuned with the community and work our ways into empowering the FC -
> which is something I believe you both also want. I just dont think this
> empowerment will come from the FC acting without any community consultation
> and claiming that there was not a clear orientation on the matter.
>
> Lastly, I would once again stress that we need to work together and learn
> to respect opposite opinions, not simply lash at people and invest in petty
> attacks such as implying that I am not in control of my emotions. Being a
> woman working on the tech environment I should have gotten used to such
> implications by now, but it still offends me - especially when we are a
> group of people meaning to do the same work and simply not managing to
> understand that we are all saying the same things in different ways.
>
> Best,
> Bruna
>
> Em qua, 20 de fev de 2019 às 21:07, thatomfikwe <thatomfikwe at gmail.com>
> escreveu:
>
>> Bruna,
>>
>> As the FC we need to agree on the meeting agenda so that it does not
>> become my agenda when it goes to the mailing list. If not.interested in the
>> meeting, please state so that other members can continue in the meanwhile.
>>
>> The operational procedures intergrated community input and FC inputs. I
>> did.not put my personal opinion on the OP, feel free to comment on the doc
>> as opposed to continue lashing. This doc still has to go to the NCSG EC.
>>
>> There is nothing wrong with the FC participating in meeting in order to
>> establish itself and gain presence and confidence within the community.
>> What is the real reason the FC need not attend F2F onsite meetings?
>>
>> Travel slots should be open to all committees and members and of course
>> active and committee members must receive a significant portion. If this is
>> not fair enough then I do not know what resolve the travel slots issue
>> which is not just a FC issue but a community issue.
>>
>> Fundraising and resource mobilisation is important, the FC understands
>> what its duties but it seems like there are serious barrier within the
>> committee as it is fighting with itself.
>>
>> Lately there has been a lot of toungue lashing on the FC. Which I
>> consider disrespectful, we are not small children, nobody is better than
>> the other, we all leaders in our own personal & different capacities. I try
>> to maintain respect for all members of NCSG but if respect is not
>> returned..then what?
>>
>> Leaders are normally in control of their emotions that is why they find
>> it easy to lead diverse people.
>>
>> The charter needs review, if not the FC issues and problems will not come
>> to an end.
>>
>> @Bruna, clearly there is no confidence right now in my participation
>> within this committee, so what does the Ncuc EC really propose regarding
>> this matter?
>>
>> I do not even see how I can reapply if the situation is as bad as you
>> describe as the Chair. Its is pretty obvious what your position on this
>> matter is.
>>
>> Your statements are very confusing because you later mention that I must
>> consider being a penholder for the budget, yet you are telling me about my
>> sins.
>>
>> Initially you said my term expired as NCUC Rep then you said I must
>> continue with the meeting, please, I am not a robot, you can remote control
>> me. The NCUC EC needs to make a decision whether I continue until further
>> update as opposed to dancing to the music as it plays within the FC.
>>
>> Personal preferences are always supercedeed by community interest and
>> organisational goals in a civil society environment.
>>
>>
>> Thato Mfikwe.
>>
>> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: Bruna Martins dos Santos <bruna.mrtns at gmail.com>
>> Date: 21/02/2019 00:30 (GMT+02:00)
>> To: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>
>> Cc: thatomfikwe <thatomfikwe at gmail.com>, Maryam Bakoshi <
>> maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>, ncsg-fc at lists.ncsg.is
>> Subject: Re: [Ext] ICANN64 FC meeting preparations
>>
>> Hey Thato,
>>
>> I sincerely don't know how to deal with so many FC incidents. You have
>> been claiming for the so-called 'independence' but all I have seen so far
>> is a huge disregard for NSCG and its constituencies. So far you have added
>> stuff to your Operating procedures that were not agreed with neither
>> suggested by membership (such as the attempt of granting travel slots to
>> the FC), submitted ABRs that involved the SG and its Constituencies
>> activities without even notifying the leadership teams and now we have this
>> invitation for staff to join the FC meeting in Kobe without, once again,
>> consulting with membership - even despite the fact that on the thread about
>> NCSG bank account several members considered that asking staff for advice
>> at such stage (of the FC) would not be advisable. Sincerely it has been
>> really hard trying to work with the FC when I know that despite of the
>> advice that we might add to any discussions will be simply ignored.
>>
>> With regards to 'announcements for FC members replacement' I guess there
>> is a little misunderstanding on your behalf here. All NCSG/NCUC/NPOC
>> leadership positions have terms, even the appointed ones. And you might
>> recall that back in Barcelona, when I became NCUC chair, we announced that
>> the calls for NCUC appointees to all NCSG committees would be done at the
>> beginning of this year. So this is not an attempt to shut down any
>> committee, but simply NCUC complying with its operating procedures. If you
>> have any interest in continuing at this position you should apply to be
>> once again the NCUC appointee to the FC, and the EC will deliberate on this
>> - I dont have a say in votings unless we have a tie.
>>
>> Other than coming back and forth with such discussions, I think the FC
>> could be doing a little inreaching to membership. I am pretty sure that the
>> FC members are all capable of doing these discussions and I would
>> personally like to see you being involved with the ICANN Strategic Plan for
>> Fiscal Years 2021 – 2025 and maybe even being the penholders of this
>> comment. Or even asking the mailing lists about what discussions they would
>> like to see at the FC meeting in Kobe.
>>
>> Best,
>> Bruna
>>
>> Em qua, 20 de fev de 2019 às 18:26, Stephanie Perrin <
>> stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> escreveu:
>>
>>> I think you must have meant this for Bruna, Thato.  I am not the head of
>>> the NCUC, nor of NPOC.  the heads of those constituencies are in charge of
>>> managing the selection of their members of the Finance Cttee, not me.
>>> ccing Bruna so she can respond.  Other responses in line.
>>>
>>> Stephanie
>>> On 2019-02-20 15:53, thatomfikwe wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>
>>> When things are happening in parallel, with announcements for FC members
>>> replacement, makes the entire planning process for the Kobe meeting a
>>> mission.
>>>
>>> It would have been better if such announcements were made after ICANN64,
>>> they put the FC in a difficult position and the Kobe meeting is planned to
>>> revive the FC not create uncertainty and uncomfortable situations with
>>> members who will be leading deliberations. Not sure if such actions were
>>> well thought of or well planned.
>>>
>>> see Bruna and Joan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am not exactly sure how we are going to proceed despite serveral
>>> attempts to hold a meeting with members before Kobe in order to discuss the
>>> planned agenda in detail and emerging issues.
>>>
>>> Do you have any idea how busy council is, and the epdp, and the WHOIS
>>> review cttee, and the comments process in general?  We are running ragged.
>>> WE need more members to staff the working groups.
>>>
>>>
>>> ICANN staff is just an email away, the Charter requires the FC to work
>>> with ICANN finance so if the committee is to be effective then it needs to
>>> establish or revive critical connections that will ensure that NCSG and its
>>> constituencies are fairly supported.
>>>
>>> First we determine our own policy positions.  Do we want paid
>>> memberships?  Do we want to establish an entity, if so what?  These are not
>>> issues to discuss with staff, they would not be authorized to express an
>>> opinion, nor should they.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regarding the strong position of the community, what issues are they
>>> arguing? Do you think they are valid and what were the reposnes of members
>>> during that time?
>>>
>>> not sure what this question is addressing
>>>
>>>
>>> If you carefully review comments, they.were centered around
>>> - the bank account and incorporation of NCSG. This is currently being
>>> dealt with and in progress, to also be further discussed and decided upon
>>> - the role of the FC, many disagree with a lot of what is stipulated on
>>> the Charter, whereas the Charter uses simple language
>>>
>>> Indeed, I cannot figure out for the life of me what the drafters of the
>>> Charter had in mind.  Establishing an entity has serious financial
>>> repercussions.  I have no idea where the money for that would come from.
>>> Fund raising is difficult at the best of times, to support us at
>>> ICANN....likely to be quite a chore.
>>>
>>>
>>> When we review we need to be objective, even though it might seem like
>>> the vocal in the mailing list are the majority. If the FC is designed to
>>> have no autonomy then its efforts to correct mistakes of the past will
>>> always go unnoticed and unrecognised.
>>>
>>> what specific mistakes are you talking about?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thato Mfikwe.
>>>
>>> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>>> -------- Original message --------
>>> From: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>
>>> <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>
>>> Date: 20/02/2019 21:59 (GMT+02:00)
>>> To: Thato Mfikwe <thatomfikwe at gmail.com> <thatomfikwe at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org> <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Ext] ICANN64 FC meeting preparations
>>>
>>> The event where the FC Chair, without informing his colleagues on
>>> Council or the PC, invited senior ICANN staff to one of the first FC
>>> meetings.  Nobody was prepared.  Most of us were unable to attend the last
>>> minute meeting.  Surprises are rarely appreciated, and noone knew the
>>> conditions under which staff had been invited.   If you check back in the
>>> email archives you will be able to see the grumbling that ensued after that
>>> meeting.  Senior people are exceptionally busy at ICANN meetings....we
>>> don't invite them unless we have consensus that we are ready to meet them.
>>>
>>> We are by nature a consultative group.  The FC should always be
>>> consulted, so there is an open record for members to consult.  Many members
>>> have strongly held views on the FC and its mandate, and check the email
>>> archives. If there is nothing there, it is insufficiently transparent, at
>>> least in my view.  I believe that is a commonly held view.
>>>
>>> Stephanie
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2019-02-20 13:51, Thato Mfikwe wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Sephanie,
>>>
>>> What was an embarrasment?
>>>
>>> Thato Mfikwe.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 8:40 PM Stephanie Perrin <
>>> stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Personally, I do not think we are ready to meet with ICANN Finance
>>>> staff. However, it appears the request has gone.  We have already gone
>>>> through this when Ed was chairing the Finance Committee, and it was an
>>>> embarrassment in my opinion.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers Stephanie
>>>> On 2019-02-20 03:27, Maryam Bakoshi wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Thato,
>>>>
>>>> Good morning I hope this email meets you well. I have forwarded this
>>>> request to Mary Wong, ICANN Staff.
>>>>
>>>> I am also cc’ing Stephanie, so she is in the loop.
>>>>
>>>> —
>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Maryam Bakoshi* | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
>>>> *ICANN* | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
>>>> *S*: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | *T*: ‭+44 7846 471777‬
>>>>
>>>> On 20 Feb 2019, at 00:25, Thato Mfikwe <thatomfikwe at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Maryam,
>>>>
>>>> Is it possible that we request the presence of one of ICANN Finance
>>>> staff and ICANN legal in the FC meeting in Kobe which will be taking place
>>>> on Wednesday, 15h15 - 16h45.
>>>>
>>>> Main support needed from ICANN staff:
>>>> - Elaboration on legal implications on incorporation of NCSG and what
>>>> it will mean for ICANN.
>>>> - Advice on alternative sources of fundraising and opening a bank
>>>> account in the name of NCSG.
>>>> - Recommendation on how to best set up the Operational Procedures and
>>>> ways of working with ICANN finance to support NCSG and constituency
>>>> initiatives and activities.
>>>> - Provision of clarity on how community comments are reflected in
>>>> current and future ICANN operational and financial plans.
>>>>
>>>> We only have 2 weeks before the meeting. I hope this message, finds you
>>>> well, thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Thato Mfikwe.
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> --
>> *Bruna Martins dos Santos *
>>
>> Skype ID: bruna.martinsantos
>> @boomartins
>>
>
>
> --
> *Bruna Martins dos Santos *
>
> Skype ID: bruna.martinsantos
> @boomartins
>
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