[NCSG-FC] [Ext] ICANN64 FC meeting preparations

[Remmy Nweke]

Hi dear Bruna
Without holding brief for Thato the issue of inviting ICANN to share some
insights on their expectations was not new and was shared in our Panama
meeting with both C's chair and report then to our immediate communities
and we had no objection as far as I can recall. And was also to help NCSG
have a direction on ICANN tasks of demand on FC. So it's not new.

It's unfortunate that the only thing people see in FC is about travels,
forgetting FC actually has to wear the NCSG cap to populate it to relevant
communities with aim of fundraising. Much of these Stephanie pointed out in
earlier submissions as a big chores, conversely, brand marketing for
sponsorship deserves full option which include face to face in relevant
events.
FC did not have a specific direction on who submits ABR or not and be that
as it may, it was never intended in bad faith knowing fully well its an
open document/process and holding it against anyone is discouraging if not
dehumnising. Agreed mistakes were made  along the line including use of
NCSG chair name  which may have been done by the iCANN  secretariat.
Without mistakes it beome impossible especially where an ocean of
communication gap exist to learn.

I am sure you must have seen communications on having FC reps in the Excom.
Why not? So that those reps will have a feel or body language where things
are going and ask relevant questions and also take direction for smooth
co-existence.
Though not very surprised that auditors everywhere are not appreciated,
hence the assignment/mandate of FC goes beyond mere auditing. This I had
pointed out earlier needs to be revisited and FC devolved into auditors,
financial Secretariat and fundraising committee if we so desire and want
things worked out.
The complexity of these trio is what is making things a bit muddled up and
if we must make progress, FC must have some level of autonomy for effective
auditing, beginning with the review of our NCSG charter.
And finally our leadership and membership inability to appreciate these
facts based on unharmonised charter and on what FC roles are and mandates
should be, will keep us with same circle unless we just want o'Yes members
in FC as reps.
We can't have a twin and favour one and expect the other one not to shout,
otherwise it goes into oblivion.
Best of the day
Remmy

On Wed, 20 Feb 2019, 11:30 p.m. Bruna Martins dos Santos <
bruna.mrtns at gmail.com wrote:

> Hey Thato,
>
> I sincerely don't know how to deal with so many FC incidents. You have
> been claiming for the so-called 'independence' but all I have seen so far
> is a huge disregard for NSCG and its constituencies. So far you have added
> stuff to your Operating procedures that were not agreed with neither
> suggested by membership (such as the attempt of granting travel slots to
> the FC), submitted ABRs that involved the SG and its Constituencies
> activities without even notifying the leadership teams and now we have this
> invitation for staff to join the FC meeting in Kobe without, once again,
> consulting with membership - even despite the fact that on the thread about
> NCSG bank account several members considered that asking staff for advice
> at such stage (of the FC) would not be advisable. Sincerely it has been
> really hard trying to work with the FC when I know that despite of the
> advice that we might add to any discussions will be simply ignored.
>
> With regards to 'announcements for FC members replacement' I guess there
> is a little misunderstanding on your behalf here. All NCSG/NCUC/NPOC
> leadership positions have terms, even the appointed ones. And you might
> recall that back in Barcelona, when I became NCUC chair, we announced that
> the calls for NCUC appointees to all NCSG committees would be done at the
> beginning of this year. So this is not an attempt to shut down any
> committee, but simply NCUC complying with its operating procedures. If you
> have any interest in continuing at this position you should apply to be
> once again the NCUC appointee to the FC, and the EC will deliberate on this
> - I dont have a say in votings unless we have a tie.
>
> Other than coming back and forth with such discussions, I think the FC
> could be doing a little inreaching to membership. I am pretty sure that the
> FC members are all capable of doing these discussions and I would
> personally like to see you being involved with the ICANN Strategic Plan for
> Fiscal Years 2021 – 2025 and maybe even being the penholders of this
> comment. Or even asking the mailing lists about what discussions they would
> like to see at the FC meeting in Kobe.
>
> Best,
> Bruna
>
> Em qua, 20 de fev de 2019 às 18:26, Stephanie Perrin <
> stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> escreveu:
>
>> I think you must have meant this for Bruna, Thato.  I am not the head of
>> the NCUC, nor of NPOC.  the heads of those constituencies are in charge of
>> managing the selection of their members of the Finance Cttee, not me.
>> ccing Bruna so she can respond.  Other responses in line.
>>
>> Stephanie
>> On 2019-02-20 15:53, thatomfikwe wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> When things are happening in parallel, with announcements for FC members
>> replacement, makes the entire planning process for the Kobe meeting a
>> mission.
>>
>> It would have been better if such announcements were made after ICANN64,
>> they put the FC in a difficult position and the Kobe meeting is planned to
>> revive the FC not create uncertainty and uncomfortable situations with
>> members who will be leading deliberations. Not sure if such actions were
>> well thought of or well planned.
>>
>> see Bruna and Joan
>>
>>
>>
>> I am not exactly sure how we are going to proceed despite serveral
>> attempts to hold a meeting with members before Kobe in order to discuss the
>> planned agenda in detail and emerging issues.
>>
>> Do you have any idea how busy council is, and the epdp, and the WHOIS
>> review cttee, and the comments process in general?  We are running ragged.
>> WE need more members to staff the working groups.
>>
>>
>> ICANN staff is just an email away, the Charter requires the FC to work
>> with ICANN finance so if the committee is to be effective then it needs to
>> establish or revive critical connections that will ensure that NCSG and its
>> constituencies are fairly supported.
>>
>> First we determine our own policy positions.  Do we want paid
>> memberships?  Do we want to establish an entity, if so what?  These are not
>> issues to discuss with staff, they would not be authorized to express an
>> opinion, nor should they.
>>
>>
>> Regarding the strong position of the community, what issues are they
>> arguing? Do you think they are valid and what were the reposnes of members
>> during that time?
>>
>> not sure what this question is addressing
>>
>>
>> If you carefully review comments, they.were centered around
>> - the bank account and incorporation of NCSG. This is currently being
>> dealt with and in progress, to also be further discussed and decided upon
>> - the role of the FC, many disagree with a lot of what is stipulated on
>> the Charter, whereas the Charter uses simple language
>>
>> Indeed, I cannot figure out for the life of me what the drafters of the
>> Charter had in mind.  Establishing an entity has serious financial
>> repercussions.  I have no idea where the money for that would come from.
>> Fund raising is difficult at the best of times, to support us at
>> ICANN....likely to be quite a chore.
>>
>>
>> When we review we need to be objective, even though it might seem like
>> the vocal in the mailing list are the majority. If the FC is designed to
>> have no autonomy then its efforts to correct mistakes of the past will
>> always go unnoticed and unrecognised.
>>
>> what specific mistakes are you talking about?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thato Mfikwe.
>>
>> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>
>> <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>
>> Date: 20/02/2019 21:59 (GMT+02:00)
>> To: Thato Mfikwe <thatomfikwe at gmail.com> <thatomfikwe at gmail.com>
>> Cc: Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org> <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Ext] ICANN64 FC meeting preparations
>>
>> The event where the FC Chair, without informing his colleagues on Council
>> or the PC, invited senior ICANN staff to one of the first FC meetings.
>> Nobody was prepared.  Most of us were unable to attend the last minute
>> meeting.  Surprises are rarely appreciated, and noone knew the conditions
>> under which staff had been invited.   If you check back in the email
>> archives you will be able to see the grumbling that ensued after that
>> meeting.  Senior people are exceptionally busy at ICANN meetings....we
>> don't invite them unless we have consensus that we are ready to meet them.
>>
>> We are by nature a consultative group.  The FC should always be
>> consulted, so there is an open record for members to consult.  Many members
>> have strongly held views on the FC and its mandate, and check the email
>> archives. If there is nothing there, it is insufficiently transparent, at
>> least in my view.  I believe that is a commonly held view.
>>
>> Stephanie
>>
>>
>> On 2019-02-20 13:51, Thato Mfikwe wrote:
>>
>> Hi Sephanie,
>>
>> What was an embarrasment?
>>
>> Thato Mfikwe.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 8:40 PM Stephanie Perrin <
>> stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> Personally, I do not think we are ready to meet with ICANN Finance
>>> staff. However, it appears the request has gone.  We have already gone
>>> through this when Ed was chairing the Finance Committee, and it was an
>>> embarrassment in my opinion.
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers Stephanie
>>> On 2019-02-20 03:27, Maryam Bakoshi wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Thato,
>>>
>>> Good morning I hope this email meets you well. I have forwarded this
>>> request to Mary Wong, ICANN Staff.
>>>
>>> I am also cc’ing Stephanie, so she is in the loop.
>>>
>>> —
>>> Many thanks,
>>>
>>>
>>> *Maryam Bakoshi* | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
>>> *ICANN* | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
>>> *S*: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | *T*: ‭+44 7846 471777‬
>>>
>>> On 20 Feb 2019, at 00:25, Thato Mfikwe <thatomfikwe at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Maryam,
>>>
>>> Is it possible that we request the presence of one of ICANN Finance
>>> staff and ICANN legal in the FC meeting in Kobe which will be taking place
>>> on Wednesday, 15h15 - 16h45.
>>>
>>> Main support needed from ICANN staff:
>>> - Elaboration on legal implications on incorporation of NCSG and what it
>>> will mean for ICANN.
>>> - Advice on alternative sources of fundraising and opening a bank
>>> account in the name of NCSG.
>>> - Recommendation on how to best set up the Operational Procedures and
>>> ways of working with ICANN finance to support NCSG and constituency
>>> initiatives and activities.
>>> - Provision of clarity on how community comments are reflected in
>>> current and future ICANN operational and financial plans.
>>>
>>> We only have 2 weeks before the meeting. I hope this message, finds you
>>> well, thanks.
>>>
>>> Thato Mfikwe.
>>>
>>>
>
> --
> *Bruna Martins dos Santos *
>
> Skype ID: bruna.martinsantos
> @boomartins
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