<div dir="auto">Hi dear Bruna<div dir="auto">Without holding brief for Thato the issue of inviting ICANN to share some insights on their expectations was not new and was shared in our Panama meeting with both C's chair and report then to our immediate communities and we had no objection as far as I can recall. And was also to help NCSG have a direction on ICANN tasks of demand on FC. <span style="font-family:sans-serif">So it's not new.</span></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">It's unfortunate that the only thing people see in FC is about travels, forgetting FC actually has to wear the NCSG cap to populate it to relevant communities with aim of fundraising. Much of these Stephanie pointed out in earlier submissions as a big chores, conversely, brand marketing for sponsorship deserves full option which include face to face in relevant events.</div><div dir="auto">FC did not have a specific direction on who submits ABR or not and be that as it may, it was never intended in bad faith knowing fully well its an open document/process and holding it against anyone is discouraging if not dehumnising. Agreed mistakes were made along the line including use of NCSG chair name which may have been done by the iCANN secretariat. Without mistakes it beome impossible especially where an ocean of communication gap exist to learn.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I am sure you must have seen communications on having FC reps in the Excom. Why not? So that those reps will have a feel or body language where things are going and ask relevant questions and also take direction for smooth co-existence.</div><div dir="auto">Though not very surprised that auditors everywhere are not appreciated, hence the assignment/mandate of FC goes beyond mere auditing. This I had pointed out earlier needs to be revisited and FC devolved into auditors, financial Secretariat and fundraising committee if we so desire and want things worked out.</div><div dir="auto">The complexity of these trio is what is making things a bit muddled up and if we must make progress, FC must have some level of autonomy for effective auditing, beginning with the review of our NCSG charter.</div><div dir="auto">And finally our leadership and membership inability to appreciate these facts based on unharmonised charter and on what FC roles are and mandates should be, will keep us with same circle unless we just want o'Yes members in FC as reps.</div><div dir="auto">We can't have a twin and favour one and expect the other one not to shout, otherwise it goes into oblivion.</div><div dir="auto">Best of the day</div><div dir="auto">Remmy</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Wed, 20 Feb 2019, 11:30 p.m. Bruna Martins dos Santos <<a href="mailto:bruna.mrtns@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">bruna.mrtns@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Hey Thato, <div><br></div><div>I sincerely don't know how to deal with so many FC incidents. You have been claiming for the so-called 'independence' but all I have seen so far is a huge disregard for NSCG and its constituencies. So far you have added stuff to your Operating procedures that were not agreed with neither suggested by membership (such as the attempt of granting travel slots to the FC), submitted ABRs that involved the SG and its Constituencies activities without even notifying the leadership teams and now we have this invitation for staff to join the FC meeting in Kobe without, once again, consulting with membership - even despite the fact that on the thread about NCSG bank account several members considered that asking staff for advice at such stage (of the FC) would not be advisable. Sincerely it has been really hard trying to work with the FC when I know that despite of the advice that we might add to any discussions will be simply ignored. <br><br>With regards to 'announcements for FC members replacement' I guess there is a little misunderstanding on your behalf here. All NCSG/NCUC/NPOC leadership positions have terms, even the appointed ones. And you might recall that back in Barcelona, when I became NCUC chair, we announced that the calls for NCUC appointees to all NCSG committees would be done at the beginning of this year. So this is not an attempt to shut down any committee, but simply NCUC complying with its operating procedures. If you have any interest in continuing at this position you should apply to be once again the NCUC appointee to the FC, and the EC will deliberate on this - I dont have a say in votings unless we have a tie. <br><br>Other than coming back and forth with such discussions, I think the FC could be doing a little inreaching to membership. I am pretty sure that the FC members are all capable of doing these discussions and I would personally like to see you being involved with the ICANN Strategic Plan for Fiscal Years 2021 – 2025 and maybe even being the penholders of this comment. Or even asking the mailing lists about what discussions they would like to see at the FC meeting in Kobe. </div><div><br></div><div>Best, </div><div>Bruna </div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Em qua, 20 de fev de 2019 às 18:26, Stephanie Perrin <<a href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a>> escreveu:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">I think you must have meant this for Bruna, Thato. I am not the head of the NCUC, nor of NPOC. the heads of those constituencies are in charge of managing the selection of their members of the Finance Cttee, not
me. ccing Bruna so she can respond. Other responses in line.<br>
</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande"></font></font>Stephanie<br>
</p>
<div class="m_-317676440078683831m_6250644652044756381gmail-m_-3010353513857470182moz-cite-prefix">On 2019-02-20 15:53, thatomfikwe wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Hi,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>When things are happening in parallel, with announcements for FC members replacement, makes the entire planning process for the Kobe meeting a mission.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It would have been better if such announcements were made after ICANN64, they put the FC in a difficult position and the Kobe meeting is planned to revive the FC not create uncertainty and uncomfortable situations with members who will be leading deliberations.
Not sure if such actions were well thought of or well planned.</div>
</blockquote>
see Bruna and Joan<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am not exactly sure how we are going to proceed despite serveral attempts to hold a meeting with members before Kobe in order to discuss the planned agenda in detail and emerging issues.</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Do you have any idea how busy council is, and the epdp, and the WHOIS review cttee, and the comments process in general? We are running ragged. WE need more members to staff the working groups.</p>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>ICANN staff is just an email away, the Charter requires the FC to work with ICANN finance so if the committee is to be effective then it needs to establish or revive critical connections that will ensure that NCSG and its constituencies are fairly supported.</div>
</blockquote>
First we determine our own policy positions. Do we want paid memberships? Do we want to establish an entity, if so what? These are not issues to discuss with staff, they would not be authorized to express an opinion, nor should they.<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regarding the strong position of the community, what issues are they arguing? Do you think they are valid and what were the reposnes of members during that time?</div>
</blockquote>
not sure what this question is addressing<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If you carefully review comments, they.were centered around </div>
<div>- the bank account and incorporation of NCSG. This is currently being dealt with and in progress, to also be further discussed and decided upon</div>
<div>- the role of the FC, many disagree with a lot of what is stipulated on the Charter, whereas the Charter uses simple language</div>
</blockquote>
Indeed, I cannot figure out for the life of me what the drafters of the Charter had in mind. Establishing an entity has serious financial repercussions. I have no idea where the money for that would come from. Fund raising is difficult at the best of times,
to support us at ICANN....likely to be quite a chore.<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>When we review we need to be objective, even though it might seem like the vocal in the mailing list are the majority. If the FC is designed to have no autonomy then its efforts to correct mistakes of the past will always go unnoticed and unrecognised.</div>
</blockquote>
<p>what specific mistakes are you talking about?</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thato Mfikwe.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div id="m_-317676440078683831m_6250644652044756381gmail-m_-3010353513857470182composer_signature">
<div style="font-size:85%;color:rgb(87,87,87)">Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.</div>
</div>
<div style="font-size:100%;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div>-------- Original message --------</div>
<div>From: Stephanie Perrin <a class="m_-317676440078683831m_6250644652044756381gmail-m_-3010353513857470182moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
<stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca></a> </div>
<div>Date: 20/02/2019 21:59 (GMT+02:00) </div>
<div>To: Thato Mfikwe <a class="m_-317676440078683831m_6250644652044756381gmail-m_-3010353513857470182moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:thatomfikwe@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
<thatomfikwe@gmail.com></a> </div>
<div>Cc: Maryam Bakoshi <a class="m_-317676440078683831m_6250644652044756381gmail-m_-3010353513857470182moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:maryam.bakoshi@icann.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
<maryam.bakoshi@icann.org></a> </div>
<div>Subject: Re: [Ext] ICANN64 FC meeting preparations </div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">The event where the FC Chair, without informing his colleagues on Council or the PC, invited senior ICANN staff to one of the first FC meetings. Nobody was prepared. Most of us were unable to attend the last minute
meeting. Surprises are rarely appreciated, and noone knew the conditions under which staff had been invited. If you check back in the email archives you will be able to see the grumbling that ensued after that meeting. Senior people are exceptionally busy
at ICANN meetings....we don't invite them unless we have consensus that we are ready to meet them.<br>
</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">We are by nature a consultative group. The FC should always be consulted, so there is an open record for members to consult. Many members have strongly held views on the FC and its mandate, and check the email
archives. If there is nothing there, it is insufficiently transparent, at least in my view. I believe that is a commonly held view.</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">Stephanie<br>
</font></font></p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="m_-317676440078683831m_6250644652044756381gmail-m_-3010353513857470182moz-cite-prefix">On 2019-02-20 13:51, Thato Mfikwe wrote:<br>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hi Sephanie,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What was an embarrasment?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thato Mfikwe.<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 8:40 PM Stephanie Perrin <<a href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">Personally, I do not think we are ready to meet with ICANN Finance staff. However, it appears the request has gone. We have already gone through this when Ed was chairing the Finance Committee, and it was an embarrassment
in my opinion.</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande"><br>
</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">Cheers Stephanie</font></font><br>
</p>
<div class="m_-317676440078683831m_6250644652044756381gmail-m_-3010353513857470182gmail-m_-5425083856951057798moz-cite-prefix">On 2019-02-20 03:27, Maryam Bakoshi wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">Hi Thato,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Good morning I hope this email meets you well. I have forwarded this request to Mary Wong, ICANN Staff. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am also cc’ing Stephanie, so she is in the loop. <br>
<br>
<div id="m_-317676440078683831m_6250644652044756381gmail-m_-3010353513857470182gmail-m_-5425083856951057798AppleMailSignature" dir="ltr">
<div>—</div>
<div>Many thanks,</div>
<div><b><br>
</b></div>
<div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><b><br>
</b></span></div>
<div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><b>Maryam Bakoshi</b> | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator </span></div>
<div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><b>ICANN</b> | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers </span></div>
<div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><b>S</b>: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | <b>T</b>: +44 7846 471777</span></div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
On 20 Feb 2019, at 00:25, Thato Mfikwe <<a href="mailto:thatomfikwe@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">thatomfikwe@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hi Maryam,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Is it possible that we request the presence of one of ICANN Finance staff and ICANN legal in the FC meeting in Kobe which will be taking place on Wednesday, 15h15 - 16h45.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Main support needed from ICANN staff:</div>
<div>- Elaboration on legal implications on incorporation of NCSG and what it will mean for ICANN.</div>
<div>- Advice on alternative sources of fundraising and opening a bank account in the name of NCSG.<br>
</div>
<div>- Recommendation on how to best set up the Operational Procedures and ways of working with ICANN finance to support NCSG and constituency initiatives and activities.</div>
<div>- Provision of clarity on how community comments are reflected in current and future ICANN operational and financial plans.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We only have 2 weeks before the meeting. I hope this message, finds you well, thanks.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thato Mfikwe.<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="m_-317676440078683831m_6250644652044756381gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><b><i>Bruna Martins dos Santos </i></b></div><div><br></div><div><div>Skype ID: bruna.martinsantos<br></div><div>@boomartins<br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
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<a href="mailto:NCSG-FC@lists.ncsg.is" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">NCSG-FC@lists.ncsg.is</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-fc" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-fc</a><br>
</blockquote></div>