[NCSG-FC] Notes of the meeting

Wed Oct 3 05:49:03 EEST 2018

Hi all
Hope we are all good.
I am greatly concerned that some of us are still trying to mislead this
committee by interpreting the Charter and FC functions as if they are
setting up an adhoc committee. Hence, I decided to share an extract from
the charter on whether 'oversight' is part of the role of FC or not and
even some suggestion on FC intervention to be on demand from
Constituencies. I wish to state that that was not the simple interpretation
of the charter which was written in simple English. So, I wonder where the
difficulty is coming from.

And here is the extract defining FC for our information:

"NCSG Finance Committee (NCSG-‐FC): The NCSG Finance Committee is
responsible for establishing a firm financial footing for the NCSG and
administering NCSG funds within a defined framework that meets relevant
legal requirements as well as requirements imposed by ICANN.

The NCSG-‐FC’s responsibilities include fund raising, setting voluntary
contribution levels for members, *determining procedures for the
distribution of funds, and for monitoring the utilization of funds.*

The NCSG-‐FC will also be responsible for the Treasurer function.
Formation of the NCSG-‐FC, its composition, and duties within the
NCSG-‐FC are set out in Section 2.6."

Therefore, I would like to ask, when a given entity is "determining
procedures for the distribution of funds, and for monitoring the
utilization of funds." What is the closest phrase to that than 'oversight'
which must be done with human face. This was the same argument that brought
about the insertion of the Section 2.6 into the Operating Procedure to make
it clearer and some of us went on to tweak it further in the name of
wording.

I have explained the issue of bank severally, I do not have another option,
except if those rejecting the idea of SPV can come up with one. SPV will
save us the trouble of registering yet another entity and search for the
trustees and management team outside our leaders as most of us are not in
US.

What matters to me is transparency and understanding. Yes, we may have that
relatively now, what happens when people who have a wide gap of the
understanding assumes our current leadership positions. We must be
futuristic and think stability of NCSG in general.

Lastly, like I had suggested in the past, with the ambiguity in manner of
interpretation of charter to our caprices, it will be better to review the
charter afresh now that some of the clauses we put their are getting
clearer or complicated as some will choose to claim.

*@thatomfikwe *

I saw the note that myself and Farz resolve some issues on Operating
Procedure, that will not work frankly speaking except we make out time for
a meeting and take them from page 1 to end and resolve them as a
team/meeting procedure allows. That is where we cant agree, a vote can be
taken and we progress. We can have one or two meetings before Farz leaves,
so it does not sound like someone is waiting for her exit to progress.

So, I will suggest you call for a meeting after affecting the corrections
you elect to do before now. Starting with doodle will be good.

Also, like I pointed out before now, until we recognise the fact that FC is
a statutory Committee in NCSG, and accord it full compliment and support,
rather than placing it like a subcommittee; we may continue the
merry-go-round.

Best of the day
Remmy Nweke
On Mon, Oct 1, 2018 at 11:19 PM Thato Mfikwe <thatomfikwe at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Farzi,
>
>
>
> I said they edited and not commented on the document and I agree with the
current language but you may change the term “oversight” to a better term
as opposed to changing the intention of the clauses themselves. Check
carefully who made edits.
>
>
>
> Thato Mfikwe.
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
>
>
> From: Bruna Martins dos Santos
> Sent: Monday, 01 October 2018 22:21
> To: ncsg-fc at lists.ncsg.is
> Subject: Re: [NCSG-FC] Notes of the meeting
>
>
>
> Dear all,
>
>
>
> I am afraid I did not agree with or suggested any language regarding the
FC having oversight on constituencies, as I cannot speak on behalf of NCUC
and dont think our constituency would agree with. What I believe my comment
was suggesting was to set a definition and trace limits to such oversight
and maybe even starting a conversation with the broader community.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Bruna
>
>
>
> Em seg, 1 de out de 2018 às 17:09, farzaneh badii <
farzaneh.badii at gmail.com> escreveu:
>
> Thato
>
>
>
> I don't see any comment from Bruna agreeing with FC having oversight on
constituencies. I see one change by Joan. I have come up with a language
that is better than direct oversight and in accordance to the charter. I
suggest removing the constituencies and add to  3(VI)
>
>
>
> NCSG Finance Committee, at the request of the constituencies, might
provide advice for management of constituencies funds.
>
> I do not agree on this as it leave so FC venerable on what to do and what
what not to do and dedicat
>
> If you and Remmy don't agree with this, then we can go to NCSG list and
itemize the issues and seek consultation, if not then the only way is to
send it to NCSG EC. if you want to do that in November so that I'd be gone,
then by all means do so. I will enumerate all my concerns and submit them
to NCSG EC and the chair.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 1, 2018 1:32 PM, Thato Mfikwe thatomfikwe at gmail.com wrote:
>
> Hi Farzaneh,
>
>
>
> Bruna and Joan, made some good edits on the section, please checkout the
current version on the link below, they also believe that the FC should
have some level of insight, monitoring and review function on constituency
affairs, for me, the current statement/section is good enough. I also
removed the management notion in regard to constituency expenditure.
>
> :
>
>
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XBL9khOhzxRRu5BiwCNeGu4suSfAw3tHFnNldeirnJQ/edit#
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 1, 2018 at 4:15 PM farzaneh badii <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Hi Thato
>
>
>
> Did you carry this out? Thato to review  3.(III), 3(IV), 3(V), 3(VI) -
review the oversight and remove and reword then provide to NCSG FC to
comment
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 9:29 AM, Thato Mfikwe thatomfikwe at gmail.com wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> 1. Finally I get a little bit of time to help push for submission of the
draft OP of the NCSG FC, our initial timelines were not met but if we can
push to submit by end of November that would not be a train smash.
>
> 2. Remmy or Farzi, please start integration changes and comments on the
OP Draft document so that we can prepare for submission to the EC by
November 2018, and remember to close comment from the community
>
> 3. I think we need to hold another meeting towards end of October in
order to finalise the Draft OP before submission to the EC
>
> 4. We need to exercise fairness and consistency in our decision, please
kindly see my input inline below, thanks.
>
>
>
> Thato Mfikwe.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 4:31 PM farzaneh badii <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Answers in line Remmy
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 8:31 PM Remmy Nweke <remmyn at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Farzaneh
>
> Thanks for the notes. My comments inline please and in colour.
>
> 1.   Stephanie will become NCSG chair either before or after Barcelona
meeting, automatically a member of FC according to the charter.
>
> 2.   Observers: chairs of committees and constituencies within NCSG can
be invited to FC/Thato wants the chairs to be automatically observers/
Farzaneh disagrees, Remmy doesn't think that Policy Committee chair should
become an observer automatically (I hope I got that one right) I am also in
line with Thato on this and you are correct on my rejection on automatic
observer for chair for PC.
>
> The issue of constituency chairs has been agreed upon (2/3) and minority
view (1/3) will be recorded, secondly, the observer status of PC chairs is
good for enhancing synergy and coordination amongst  committees and
constituencies, provided that the FC chair will also receive observer
status on the NCG PC (what are you thoughts on this, because at some point
the FC and the PC need t see eye to eye and this process will create that
desired platform).
>
>
>
>
>
> Well I disagree with any chair being automatically an observer because I
think the FC should be able to invite members and observers and chairs
involvement with FC should happen as needed. But I wonder why you are
specifically against pc chair being an observer? Can you please provide
your reasons?
>
> 1.
>
> 2.   2.6 of charter was inserted in the NCSG Finance Committee Operating
Procedure (accepted_
>
> 3.   Constituencies can seek advice about financial matters from the
finance committee which will be nonbinding/ Discuss on the mailing list
>
> 4.   Remove section 5- replace with creating a bank account for NCSG
(Joan, Stephanie and other FC members to discuss this, I believe Joan and
Stephanie are in a good position to work together on this. (Considering the
difficulty of managing the proposed new/separate account model for NCSG
including the issue of residency and frequency of officers/signatories, its
going to be a hardnut and pray we thinker on yet another option of that if
Special Purpose Vehicle [SPV] is not taken entirely/partly.)
>
> I think we need to see how treasury functions at constituency level,
there might be some lessons to learn on how to administer and manage the
bank account (NCUC chair would be of help in this instance).
>
>
>
>
>
> Special purpose vehicle term was not accepted but this doesn't mean
others won't think about the right avenues for creating ncsg account.
>
> 1.
>
> 2.   Thato to review  3.(III), 3(IV), 3(V), 3(VI) - review the oversight
and remove and reword then provide to NCSG FC to comment
>
> 3.   ABR submission/ A lightweight process for submission/ Members
consultation etc
>
> 4.   Thato discussed how to receive travel allocation from ICANN.
Farzaneh disagreed that there is a need but provided some suggestions as to
how he can approach the issue.
>
> Farzi, please list those suggestions
>
> 1.   The wording of FC members attending AGM was not changed since Thato
and Remmy supported it, Farzaneh dissented and will send her dissent. (Is
sending a dissent to EC part of the Charter requirement on decision making
in NCSG and FC precisely, especially when one does not agree with majority
or is it because it still has to go to EC where you preside? What of if FC
decision stops at FC. Even with this comment here, is dissent already? I do
not think its necessarily so and should not be encouraged). If a decision
is taken as Committee despite our various positions, I think it should
suffice and be respected, rather than creating impression of a divided
house. IMO. We can disagree to agree eventually.
>
> Again minority views will also be recorded.
>
>
>
> You disregarded members comments on this issue and my comments and did
not want to come to a reformed language that does not necessarily require
FC be in ICANN meetings, is in line with our charter but also if the
opportunity arises enables FC to attend ICANN and other meetings. Hence I
would like to tell NCSG EC that I don't agree with these provisions that
you have passed and that it was not a consensus decision. I have discussed
this many many times and I have no desire to continue and I find it quite
amusing that you first don't want to come to a compromise and consensus
 and then ask me not to do a dissent. FC is in charge of creating resources
for NCSG to do policy. It's not to be a strain on resources.
>
>
>
> Sorry I thought I sent this on the day of the meeting. Seems like I have
not.
>
>
>
> Thanks again, great work.
>
> ____
>
> REMMY NWEKE, mNGE,
>
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>
> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 8:19 AM farzaneh badii <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Stephanie will become NCSG chair either before or after Barcelona
meeting, automatically a member of FC according to the charter
>
> Observers: chairs of committees and constituencies within NCSG can be
invited to FC/Thato wants the chairs to be automatically observers/
Farzaneh disagrees, Remmy doesn't think that Policy Committee chair should
become an observer automatically (I hope I got that one right)
>
> 2.6 of charter was inserted in the NCSG Finance Committee Operating
Procedure (accepted_
>
> Constituencies can seek advice about financial matters from the finance
committee which will be nonbinding/ Discuss on the mailing list
>
> Remove section 5- replace with creating a bank account for NCSG (Joan,
Stephanie and other FC members to discuss this, I believe Joan and
Stephanie are in a good position to work together on this.
>
> Thato to review  3.(III), 3(IV), 3(V), 3(VI) - review the oversight and
remove and reword then provide to NCSG FC to comment
>
> ABR submission/ A lightweight process for submission/ Members
consultation etc
>
> Thato discussed how to receive travel allocation from ICANN. Farzaneh
disagreed that there is a need but provided some suggestions as to how he
can approach the issue.
>
> The wording of FC members attending AGM was not changed since Thato and
Remmy supported it, Farzaneh dissented and will send her dissent
>
> Sorry I thought I sent this on the day of the meeting. Seems like I have
not.
>
>
>
>
>
> Farzaneh
>
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> --
>
> Farzaneh
>
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>
>
>
> Farzaneh
>
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>
>
>
> Farzaneh
>
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>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Bruna Martins dos Santos
>
>
>
> Skype ID: bruna.martinsantos
>
> @boomartins
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>
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