[NCSG-EC] Vaibhav

Robin Gross robin at ipjustice.org
Wed Jun 3 22:52:17 EEST 2020 

Yes, given his unwillingness to stop the attacks, I think he should stay under moderation until after we are able to process the complaint that was filed regarding his membership status.  We need to follow our operating procedures regarding the handling of such complaints, and the process will take time as there are considerable due process concerns to it.  We also need to be sure that we don’t forward such complaints onto ANY publicly archived mailing lists (including this EC list) because mere allegations can be quite harmful to people’s reputations, which is what we agreed last year after the complaint Ayden filed against David was erroneously forwarded to a publicly archived list and caused significant damage before any truth to it could be ascertained.

As for the complaint Vaibhav filed against Milton, we have procedures for the handling of frivolous and vexatious complaints against members and they can be summarily disposed of without wasting any time on them.  Thanks.

Best,
Robin


> On Jun 3, 2020, at 11:33 AM, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
> 
> Fine with your assessment re his complaint, but he has continued to @ Georgia Tech on Twitter as recently as this morning. 
> 
> We can still wait until the elections are over to take a decision; there is no practical difference between being suspended from the list or being under post moderation, to the extent that his posts do not reach the list without our consent, and we can consent to nothing. 
> 
> That still means his vote gets to be counted though. 
> 
> At this point I can go one way or another, depending on what others think.
> 
> Have a nice day,
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 11:43 AM Stephanie E Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
> Bearing in mind the need to ensure confidentiality of formal complaints, which Mr. Aggarwal's latest email to me indicates that this is, I reached out to Milton.  He is not prepared to apologize to Mr Aggarwal on the list.   i am about to inform Mr. A of this fact, and that I have reviewed the messages in question and not only do not think he has a valid complaint, but concur with the EC that his behaviour on the list violates our acceptable standards.  Do you agree with this assessment?
> 
> I suggest we review his membership after the elections are over.  in the meantime, if you believe that his conduct after the warning in private was issued continues to be outside the boundaries of acceptable behaviour, please point me to the evidence and I will inform him that the NCSG-EC has removed him from the list.  Period of removal should be temporary in my view, pending removal of membership if indeed he does not qualify on grounds of his commercial activities.
> 
> SP
> On 2020-06-03 10:04 a.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix wrote:
>> Hi all
>> 
>> Good morning, and I hope you all enjoyed a good night's sleep...
>> 
>> First about the guy:
>> 
>> He has shown no willingness to do anything besides continue on the same track. He posted on the list *and* on social media *after* the warning, and probably realizing he had been moderated from the NCSG list, took to the NCUC list.
>> 
>> There is also now an "official" request by James to look into his membership status (raised directly with Stephanie and Bruna (putting me in cc, hence I inform you here))
>> 
>> Irrespective of the last point, the rest is enough to me to warrant his immediate removal, his "complaint" against Milton notwithstanding. 
>> 
>> We can blame ourselves for letting things heat up and failing to moderate (technically speaking) quickly enough, but he's the one to blame for disregarding pretty much every point from our warning and actively circumventing it.
>> 
>> As to the complaint re Milton, the furthest I would be willing to go would be to send a reminder to Milton, encouraging him to exercise utmost caution in his choice of words when faced with disruptive behavior on list, in the multicultural context that is ours. 
>> 
>> I will be in touch with Bruna regarding moderating him from the NCUC mailing list as well. And let me know your thoughts on the main issue. 
>> 
>> Have a nice day, 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 5:15 AM Raoul Plommer <plommer at gmail.com <mailto:plommer at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> Milton has nothing to apologise for, as far as I'm concerned. I might've been even less polite, had I seen this ridiculous energy waster yesterday.
>> 
>> -Raoul
>> 
>> On Wed, 3 Jun 2020 at 03:36, U Of T via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>> He has sent me such a direct complaint. No specifics of course.  I guess i have to respond. He is demanding I make Milton apologize on the list.  Advice welcome.
>> Steph
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jun 2, 2020, at 20:29, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com <mailto:rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I got the confirmation from Rafik that Vaibhav is now on filter mode.
>>> 
>>> I'll start another thread to deal with the technical side of that...
>>> 
>>> But for the main issue, I suggest we leave it at that and filter everything until the election is over, and take a second look by then. 
>>> 
>>> Also, he seems to imply he wants to file a complaint against Milton. I guess we should still reply to that - something like if you want to file a complaint, you have to do it in writing to the Chair?
>>> 
>>> Let me know. Hopefully with the filter in place and maybe a few more reminders if more people try to keep the discussion rolling, we can put that behind us and move on with our lives... 
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 5:22 PM Stephanie E Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>>> Looks fine to me.  Thanks for doing this Raphael!
>>> 
>>> SP
>>> On 2020-06-02 2:19 p.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> 
>>>> This was not my initial interpretation of his message either, but I can see how and why you can interpret it that way Steph. 
>>>> 
>>>> But I'm not sure that the point you are raising should be addressed in the context of the EC. It has ramifications into both your history as a NCSG chair, and the "issues" with our rigid gender rules that now put you in a situation where you are (almost) elected by default. The interpretation you put forward is legitimate in your circumstances, but it has to be inferred, from a rather complex situation and long-standing situation. Whats going on with Vaibhav though is rather straightforward and can be addressed right away.
>>>> 
>>>> This is what I plan to send him later today, with your agreement:
>>>> 
>>>> "Vaibhav,
>>>> 
>>>> We are writing to you regarding the post you made on the NCSG mailing list at 11:50 EST in the "NCSG Election Clarifications" thread.
>>>> 
>>>> After reviewing the content of your post, we find it to be in violation of both the NCSG Charter and the ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior.
>>>> 
>>>> Article 1.2 d) of the NCSG Charter reads as follows:
>>>> "Behavioral expectations of all NCSG members, include without limitation: adhering to ICANN Bylaws/Policies; supporting the bottom-up consensus model; treating others with dignity, respect, and courtesy; listening attentively and seeking to understand others; acting with honesty, sincerity, and integrity."
>>>> 
>>>> Your recent interventions on the mailing list were generally borderline regarding these Charter committments, and the one we referred to above constitutes a direct violation. 
>>>> 
>>>> We would kindly ask you to reconsider how you understand your involvement with NCSG and withdraw the personal attacks, accusations and threats you made in that post. 
>>>> 
>>>> Any further post on the NCSG mailing list which would be found in violation of the NCSG Charter could lead to your suspension from the mailing list and a further review of your membership status by the NCSG Executive Committee.
>>>> 
>>>> We thank you in advance for your cooperation on this matter.
>>>> 
>>>> Raphaël Beauregard-Lacroix, on behalf of the NCSG Executive Committee
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 1:53 PM Robin Gross via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>>>> I didn’t interpret Milton’s message as being hurtful but more of what we face every election - people imaging ways of using the existing ballot and rules to achieve various results.  It isn’t the first time we’ve had abstain / NOTA conversations and probably won’t be the last.
>>>> 
>>>> Best,
>>>> Robin
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jun 2, 2020, at 10:04 AM, Stephanie E Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I just responded to James' comment, in hopes that this would douse the flames.  I also resent the thread of reminders about the election process....I trust it made it to the list.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I agree that whoever this Agarwal guy is, an offlist note is required.  I would really appreciate it if you did it, because frankly it looks like I am retaliating and might serve to escalate matters.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I also think Milton is out of line.  I am well aware of how much he would like me not to run, but to suggest to the list that they send me a message about how unwelcome I am, by voting abstain....well, besides being hurtful, I think it is a kind of electioneering that ought to be discouraged.  Encourage people to vote for your candidate of choice, sure.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I also think that encouraging me to step down so the EC can appoint the person they really want raises all kinds of questions about how fair the election process is.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Just my two cents.
>>>>> 
>>>>> SP
>>>>> On 2020-06-02 12:57 p.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> What he said to Milton is disrespectful, and contains specific accusations as well as threats. I think he needs to be reminded off-list of the expected standards of behavior at ICANN and encouraged to withdraw what he said and eventually apologize. If he keeps lashing on, then to me thats a case of temporary suspension from the mailing list with further review on our side. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Milton is harsh, and I also think he should exercise restraint in such circumstances, and it would be fair game to remind him. His point could be made without certain words, irrespective of their being "true" or not. But Vaibhav's surely went way over the line as far as standards of behavior are concerned, much more than Milton ever did. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I know you don't like to play the cop Steph, but I do think it's required, unfortunately. If you don't feel like it, I can volunteer, or someone else can go ahead too.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> But let's quickly discuss first; let me know what you all think.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Have a nice day, 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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