[Ncsg-discuss] [Important] Plan for NCSG list migration

[Niels ten Oever]

Hi Rafik,

That is a very well placed point, however, ICANN is often more 
accountable to the NCSG than the Syracuse IT department has been in the 
past (even though it is great they provided this service!).

There is a risk to have this run and administered by an active member, 
especially since everyone eventually will move on - and I think it is 
important to maintain the institutional memory.

Best,

Niels



On 12/8/25 1:37 PM, Rafik Dammak wrote:
> Hi Niels,
> 
> Regarding being hosted by ICANN, while it looks to easy and 
> straightforward solution I do believe we miss one important point: we 
> lose control in our own mailing list and totally outsource to ICANN 
> staff. My personal experience with ICANN IT is not positive and they can 
> be inflexible. We are structure and organized within ICANN, we should 
> keep some level of independence as we are watchdog to some extent. I 
> would argue against that option.
> 
> Regarding archiving, I would ask Tapani to clarify.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Rafik
> 
> 
> On Mon, Dec 8, 2025, 21:07 Niels ten Oever <lists at digitaldissidents.org 
> <mailto:lists at digitaldissidents.org>> wrote:
> 
>     Hi all,
> 
>     May I suggest the export of the existing mailinglist and subsequently
>     import into new mailinglist to maintain the archive in one place?
> 
>     The issue is that the existing mailinglist software is not a mailman
>     instance, so I strongly suggest that the new one is. That would make
>     migration a lot easier.
> 
>     Is there anything against hosting it on ICANN's servers? That might be
>     helpful for consistency as well as archival purposes. Perhaps ICANN
>     staff can also support with migration? Earlier they have been very
>     helpful with mailinglist research.
> 
>     Best,
> 
>     Niels
> 
> 
> 
>     On 12/5/25 9:51 AM, James Gannon wrote:
>      > I strongly suggest moving to a hosted mailman solution, either from
>      > ICANN or a 3rd party.
>      >
>      > --
>      >
>      > James
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      > On Fri, 5 Dec 2025 at 08:42, Johan Helsingius <00001963cc94b85a-
>     dmarc-
>      > request at listserv.syr.edu <mailto:request at listserv.syr.edu>
>     <mailto:00001963cc94b85a-dmarc- <mailto:00001963cc94b85a-dmarc->
>      > request at listserv.syr.edu <mailto:request at listserv.syr.edu>>> wrote:
>      >
>      >     Fully support the migration - and yes, mea culpa, it should have
>      >     happened long ago.
>      >
>      >     I just encourage us to find a permanent solution - it is
>     great that
>      >     Tapani and EFFi are willing to host us, but we should not stretch
>      >     their goodwill too far.
>      >
>      >              Julf
>      >
>      >
>      >     On 05/12/2025 09:37, Rafik Dammak wrote:
>      >      > hi all,
>      >      >
>      >      > As you might be aware of, we have for some time had
>     problems with
>      >     our
>      >      > listserv where several emails end up in spam folders. The
>      >     listserv is
>      >      > currently hosted in Syracuse University for historical
>     reasons,
>      >     thanks
>      >      > to Prof Milton Mueller. We couldn't find how to fix those
>     issues
>      >      > permanently to avoid this issue  for those using gmail or
>     similar
>      >     mail
>      >      > and the topic was brought up to EC for discussion.
>      >      >
>      >      > I am taking my responsibility here as chair and I am thinking
>      >     that we
>      >      > should migrate our mailing list to different hosting. The
>     current
>      >     plan
>      >      > is to move on a temporary basis to be hosted by EFFi , in
>     the same
>      >      > fashion for all NCSG committees lists and then to move to more
>      >     long term
>      >      > hosting for NCSG. Tapani will kindly support the migration and
>      >     ensure a
>      >      > smooth transition. The current listserv content will be
>     archived and
>      >      > backed up. More details  such as instructions and timeline
>     will
>      >     follow.
>      >      > We still need to find a permanent hosting a managed service or
>      >     dedicated
>      >      > server and think about sustainable operation and
>     maintenance that
>      >     will
>      >      > not require a member to be a lifetime sysadmin to handle
>     the NCSG IT
>      >      > resource.
>      >      >
>      >      > It is not an easy decision as we have had this listserv
>     since NCSG
>      >      > creation and so there is some historical background. Happy to
>      >     hear any
>      >      > comments or concerns.
>      >      >
>      >      > Best regards,
>      >      >
>      >      > Rafik
>      >      >
>      >      >
>      >      >
>      >
> 
>     -- 
>     Niels ten Oever, PhD
>     Co-Principal Investigator - critical infrastructure lab - University of
>     Amsterdam
>     Assistant Professor - Department of European Studies - University of
>     Amsterdam
> 
>     W: https://criticalinfralab.net <https://criticalinfralab.net>
>     W: https://nielstenoever.net <https://nielstenoever.net>
>     PGP: 4254 ECD5 D4CF F6AF 8B91 0D9F EFAD 2E49 CC90 C10C
> 

-- 
Niels ten Oever, PhD
Co-Principal Investigator - critical infrastructure lab - University of 
Amsterdam
Assistant Professor - Department of European Studies - University of 
Amsterdam

W: https://criticalinfralab.net
W: https://nielstenoever.net
PGP: 4254 ECD5 D4CF F6AF 8B91 0D9F EFAD 2E49 CC90 C10C