Opening an account for NPOC, NCUC and NCSG in Estonia
Sam Lanfranco
lanfran at YORKU.CA
Wed Jan 16 12:06:32 EET 2019
Hi Farzaneh.
You are pretty much right. Three points of clarification:
* I have pulled back from the FC because of heavy (and about to be a
lot heavier) other internet related work obligations.
* The NPOC account set up by Joan and me is there, sitting idle. I
have asked Joan to take the lead in where it goes. She is waiting (I
think) for this bigger discussion to conclude.
* The process of setting up non-profit bank accounts in Canada is very
simple, the only constraint is those with signing ability (single,
double signatures, whatever) have to be resident in Canada to go to
a bank branch and sign the account creation document, and to sign
the signing privileges document. There are no associated tax or
formal organization registration requirements. Each step just needs
a letter from the organization (e.g. NPOC, NCUC, NCSG) authorizing
the people here to do what they are doing in the creation of the
account.
I hope this helps. For you information (and amusement?) I will continue
to do what I can with NPOC and NCSG but I am taking some time off next
month. It is to celebrate my 80th birthday, going to Mexico with my
girlfriend of 60 years ago.
Sam
On 1/16/2019 10:51 AM, farzaneh badii wrote:
> No I am sorry. Sam stepped down from the FC a couple last year and he
> mentioned that he does not want to be involved. I let him clarify it.
>
> Also there are some political issues here, we can't mix an NPOC
> account (or a previous NPOC account) with NCSG account and leave NCUC
> out. So NCSG account should be NCSG account with Stephanie Perrin as
> the NCSG chair has come up with a preliminary plan.
>
>
> Farzaneh
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 5:52 AM Raoul Plommer <plommer at gmail.com
> <mailto:plommer at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Yes, I think the account created by Joan and Sam would presumably
> have to be renamed NPOC -> NCSG. Other than that, I think as long
> as you're all Canadian you can all access the account just as
> easy. I don't think you'd be going physically to the bank all the
> time anyway. As long as the bank has a branch close to all of you
> three, the names can be changed without a hitch. As far as I can
> see, the only issue is trust. I.e. that Sam or Joan wouldn't run
> away with the funds. I seriously can't see that happening, at all.
> I'm quite sure Joan or Sam would be willing to change their name
> as the account holder into someone else, say Stephanie, for
> example. I was just trying to make use of what we already have.
>
> -Raoul
>
>
>
> On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 at 11:43, Remmy Nweke <remmyn at gmail.com
> <mailto:remmyn at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi Stephanie
> Thanks to Ramirez for the intervention.
>
> I am not sure both you and Sam have this kind of account
> except I am missing something.
>
> I thought he opened account for NPOC.
>
> At the same time there will be a cost of operating whatever
> account we eventually decided and must not overlook budgeting
> or planning for this cost alongside every plan.
> Regards
> Remmy
>
> On Tue, 15 Jan 2019, 11:30 p.m. Stephanie Perrin
> <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
> <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
>
> Tamir has volunteered to get some legal advice on this
> from those who understand banking better. The account is
> free. I think Sam's account is on the same basis as
> mine. I am looking into business numbers. I think we
> have it all in hand. Sam and Joan and I are actually
> quite far from each other. As long as it costs nothing, I
> think we should stick to this plan, while we investigate
> all the ramifications of this.
>
> Cheers Stephanie
>
> On 2019-01-15 16:32, Remmy Nweke wrote:
>> Hi Stephanie
>> Hope this meets you well.
>> Will not be of best interest to leverage the NPOC account
>> which Sam once opened and since you are also within reach
>> to make this the best we can.
>>
>> I had previously suggested we leverage this kind of
>> account before Sam insight came with hope that there
>> should be some kind of Memorandum of Understanding among
>> the Cs and NCSG in the case of any hiccup with hope that
>> will help us navigate the NCSG imbroglio with a given
>> percentage set aside to caution the taxes that is
>> associated with it in the event we have inflows, so that
>> we do not overlabour our volunteers for choosing to serve
>> at the highlevels.
>>
>> May be a revisit will help us all.
>> Remmy
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>>
>> On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 7:33 PM Stephanie Perrin
>> <stephanie at digitaldiscretion.ca
>> <mailto:stephanie at digitaldiscretion.ca>> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for this discussion, Tapani and Moritz.
>> Obviously, I am concerned abou this because I have no
>> desire to pay income tax on the amount potentially
>> coming into my account from the PIR account,
>> particularly because it is coming form the United
>> States and this would not, to the best of my
>> knowledge, be covered under the waiver we all sign as
>> volunteers accepting travel funds from ICANN. I will
>> be asking my account for advice on this, at my own
>> expense. The long arm of the IRS is not to be
>> underestimated, for us Canadians, and they can be
>> quite arbitrary about alleging taxes owed.
>>
>> Stephanie
>>
>> On 2019-01-13 06:25, Tapani Tarvainen wrote:
>>> On Jan 12 23:15, Moritz Bartl (bartl at RENEWABLEFREEDOM.ORG
>>> <mailto:bartl at RENEWABLEFREEDOM.ORG>) wrote:
>>>
>>>> What is being discussed here is _not_ merely "opening a bank account".
>>>> What you are discussing is to set up organizations.
>>> Yes. That is the whole point, specifically to avoid this:
>>>
>>>> If you run an account under your name, or a shared account with
>>>> someone else, you have the full legal responsibility.
>>> Yes. And that is our situation now.
>>>
>>>> But, maybe more importantly, what you receive to this account is
>>>> (shared) income. If you don't declare it with your taxes, you are
>>>> committing tax fraud.
>>> This is not correct in general. Rules vary from country to country, of
>>> course, and what you say may be true in some, but certainly not all -
>>> the following applies in at least some I happen to know of.
>>>
>>> All money that comes to your accounts is not income nor should be
>>> declared as such. You can, for example, borrow or lend money, and if
>>> there's no interest involved there's no income either nor any need to
>>> declare such debts with your taxes (at least if your country has no
>>> property tax).
>>>
>>> More to the point, you can use your own account to handle money
>>> belonging to someone else, including an association, without any tax
>>> implications, and in many countries law also recognizes unregistered
>>> or unincorporated associations (with various limitations on what they
>>> can or can't do).
>>>
>>> Whether any incoming money is ultimately taxable or needs to be
>>> declared depends on all kinds of things, but often, e.g., membership
>>> fees are tax exempt.
>>>
>>>> If you buy services, you buy them for you, and they become your
>>>> legal responsibility.
>>> That is not quite accurate either. You can buy services even for an
>>> unregistered association. You will be responsible for them, but if you
>>> try to, say, take them away from the association, its other members
>>> can sue you and win, depending on details of course.
>>>
>>>> You can do so as a group, no problem, but you are not magically "not
>>>> a legal entity".
>>> I'm not quite sure what that means, but certainly even an unregistered
>>> association can be a legal entity.
>>>
>>> Registering or incorporating an association changes the situation, in
>>> particular it limits personal responsibility and makes a number of
>>> things legally much easier and better defined, but it's not a totally
>>> clear cut, black-and-white distinction.
>>>
>>> Anyway, you are absolutely right that there are all kinds of legal
>>> complications and they should be well researched before incorporating
>>> NCSG in any country.
>>>
--
------------------------------------------------
"It is a disgrace to be rich and honoured
in an unjust state" -Confucius
邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也
------------------------------------------------
Visiting Prof, Xi'an Jaiotong-Liverpool Univ, Suzhou, China
Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus), Econ, York U., CANADA
email: Lanfran at Yorku.ca Skype: slanfranco
blog: https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com
Phone: +1 613-476-0429 cell: +1 416-816-2852
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