Opening an account for NPOC, NCUC and NCSG in Estonia

[farzaneh badii]

No I am sorry. Sam stepped down from the FC a couple last year and he
mentioned that he does not want to be involved. I let him clarify it.

Also there are some political issues here, we can't mix an NPOC account (or
a previous NPOC account) with NCSG account and leave NCUC out. So NCSG
account should be NCSG account with Stephanie Perrin as the NCSG chair  has
come up with a preliminary plan.


Farzaneh


On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 5:52 AM Raoul Plommer <plommer at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes, I think the account created by Joan and Sam would presumably have to
> be renamed NPOC -> NCSG. Other than that, I think as long as you're all
> Canadian you can all access the account just as easy. I don't think you'd
> be going physically to the bank all the time anyway. As long as the bank
> has a branch close to all of you three, the names can be changed without a
> hitch. As far as I can see, the only issue is trust. I.e. that Sam or Joan
> wouldn't run away with the funds. I seriously can't see that happening, at
> all. I'm quite sure Joan or Sam would be willing to change their name as
> the account holder into someone else, say Stephanie, for example. I was
> just trying to make use of what we already have.
>
> -Raoul
>
>
>
> On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 at 11:43, Remmy Nweke <remmyn at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Stephanie
>> Thanks to Ramirez for the intervention.
>>
>> I am not sure both you and Sam have this kind of account except I am
>> missing something.
>>
>> I thought he opened account for NPOC.
>>
>> At the same time there will be a cost of operating whatever account we
>> eventually decided and must not overlook budgeting or planning for this
>> cost alongside every plan.
>> Regards
>> Remmy
>>
>> On Tue, 15 Jan 2019, 11:30 p.m. Stephanie Perrin <
>> stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca wrote:
>>
>>> Tamir has volunteered to get some legal advice on this from those who
>>> understand banking better.  The account is free.  I think Sam's account is
>>> on the same basis as mine.  I am looking into business numbers.  I think we
>>> have it all in hand.  Sam and Joan and I are actually quite far from each
>>> other.  As long as it costs nothing, I think we should stick to this plan,
>>> while we investigate all the ramifications of this.
>>>
>>> Cheers Stephanie
>>> On 2019-01-15 16:32, Remmy Nweke wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Stephanie
>>> Hope this meets you well.
>>> Will not be of best interest to leverage the NPOC account which Sam once
>>> opened and since you are also within reach to make this the best we can.
>>>
>>> I had previously suggested we leverage this kind of account before Sam
>>> insight came with hope that there should be some kind of Memorandum of
>>> Understanding among the Cs and NCSG in the case of any hiccup with hope
>>> that will help us navigate the NCSG imbroglio with a given percentage set
>>> aside to caution the taxes that is associated with it in the event we have
>>> inflows, so that we do not overlabour our volunteers for choosing to serve
>>> at the highlevels.
>>>
>>> May be a revisit will help us all.
>>> Remmy
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>>> On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 7:33 PM Stephanie Perrin <
>>> stephanie at digitaldiscretion.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for this discussion, Tapani and Moritz.  Obviously, I am
>>>> concerned abou this because I have no desire to pay income tax on the
>>>> amount potentially coming into my account from the PIR account,
>>>> particularly because it is coming form the United States and this would
>>>> not, to the best of my knowledge, be covered under the waiver we all sign
>>>> as volunteers accepting travel funds from ICANN.  I will be asking my
>>>> account for advice on this, at my own expense.  The long arm of the IRS is
>>>> not to be underestimated, for us Canadians, and they can be quite arbitrary
>>>> about alleging taxes owed.
>>>>
>>>> Stephanie
>>>> On 2019-01-13 06:25, Tapani Tarvainen wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 12 23:15, Moritz Bartl (bartl at RENEWABLEFREEDOM.ORG) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What is being discussed here is _not_ merely "opening a bank account".
>>>> What you are discussing is to set up organizations.
>>>>
>>>> Yes. That is the whole point, specifically to avoid this:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you run an account under your name, or a shared account with
>>>> someone else, you have the full legal responsibility.
>>>>
>>>> Yes. And that is our situation now.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But, maybe more importantly, what you receive to this account is
>>>> (shared) income. If you don't declare it with your taxes, you are
>>>> committing tax fraud.
>>>>
>>>> This is not correct in general. Rules vary from country to country, of
>>>> course, and what you say may be true in some, but certainly not all -
>>>> the following applies in at least some I happen to know of.
>>>>
>>>> All money that comes to your accounts is not income nor should be
>>>> declared as such. You can, for example, borrow or lend money, and if
>>>> there's no interest involved there's no income either nor any need to
>>>> declare such debts with your taxes (at least if your country has no
>>>> property tax).
>>>>
>>>> More to the point, you can use your own account to handle money
>>>> belonging to someone else, including an association, without any tax
>>>> implications, and in many countries law also recognizes unregistered
>>>> or unincorporated associations (with various limitations on what they
>>>> can or can't do).
>>>>
>>>> Whether any incoming money is ultimately taxable or needs to be
>>>> declared depends on all kinds of things, but often, e.g., membership
>>>> fees are tax exempt.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you buy services, you buy them for you, and they become your
>>>> legal responsibility.
>>>>
>>>> That is not quite accurate either. You can buy services even for an
>>>> unregistered association. You will be responsible for them, but if you
>>>> try to, say, take them away from the association, its other members
>>>> can sue you and win, depending on details of course.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You can do so as a group, no problem, but you are not magically "not
>>>> a legal entity".
>>>>
>>>> I'm not quite sure what that means, but certainly even an unregistered
>>>> association can be a legal entity.
>>>>
>>>> Registering or incorporating an association changes the situation, in
>>>> particular it limits personal responsibility and makes a number of
>>>> things legally much easier and better defined, but it's not a totally
>>>> clear cut, black-and-white distinction.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, you are absolutely right that there are all kinds of legal
>>>> complications and they should be well researched before incorporating
>>>> NCSG in any country.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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