Opening an account for NPOC, NCUC and NCSG in Estonia

[Olévié Kouami]

Hello all. Greetings fromage Sénégal, my New residencial country.

Please,  a question : What's happening to the NPOC bank account opened in
Canada by Prof. Lanfranco Sam ?
And how the SGs money could be held by individuals,  Milton and Plommer ?
I remember that we had a bad experience with this behaviour inside the
NPOC.
Dear Chair Joan, did the NPOC finally got it money from the former Chair
Rudi ?
Thank you for any clarification on these questions.

Warm regards
Olevie
Le 7 janv. 2019 19:43, "Raoul Plommer" <plommer at gmail.com> a écrit :

> At least the AdWords doesn't compromise our users' privacy. I think that
> $10 000 alone is worth spending 70€ (or less) on it.
>
> Also, as far as I know, we already use Google products for making comments
> and spreadsheets and presentations too, so instead of creating these
> documents one at a time, we could be creating a proper archives for our
> files and documents.
>
> I'd rather fill an ABR for creating this infrastructure, than waiting for
> months and making ICANN pay thousands for advice that is probably not even
> aware of e-residency in Estonia. It really seems like the best way of going
> about this, but I'm of course open for better ideas.
>
> -Raoul
>
> On Mon, 7 Jan 2019 at 21:35, Ayden Férdeline <icann at ferdeline.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure we want to use Google products.
>>
>> I appreciate there is a legitimate need to formalise the NCSG's
>> structure, but I would suggest we do this on the basis of solid legal
>> advice. Perhaps we could submit an Additional Budget Request for
>> independent legal advice to guide us through the various options at our
>> disposal?
>>
>> Ayden
>>
>>
>> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>> On Monday, January 7, 2019 8:22 PM, Raoul Plommer <plommer at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> All three, NCSG/NPOC/NCUC have money, but they are under two accounts,
>> Milton Mueller's (NCSG/NCUC) and mine (NPOC).
>>
>> If we die, it gets very difficult to access these funds. People die
>> accidentally and prematurely all the time. We need accounts and two people
>> as signatories for each. That will lessen the risk of not being able to
>> access these funds substantially. That is an inarguable fact here.
>>
>> The point of registering the organisations officially, has many
>> advantages and no disadvantages (that I can think of), apart from the
>> initial payments to register these nonprofits. That is less than 70€ each.
>> There are no further costs, as far as I'm aware.
>>
>> One very concrete benefit is Google's nonprofit deal, which gives Drive
>> access for free, with 30gb (at least) and what is even more valuable, is
>> the GoogleAds program for nonprofits, which is to the tune of $10 000/year.
>>
>> Like Paul said, the "e-residency" is more of an electronic ID, that is
>> usable for Estonian identification purposes. One does not need to come to
>> Estonia to get an e-residency, but presumably that's not true for _opening_
>> a bank account.
>>
>> My knowledge on the exact specifics is still somewhat flimsy, but if
>> people support this idea, we can start investigating further. I'm glad to
>> see some people from Estonia already offering their help, which is great.
>> This will surely help us a lot, if we choose to go ahead.
>>
>> -Raoul
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 7 Jan 2019 at 21:04, Ayden Férdeline <icann at ferdeline.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I suppose the desire for a bank account arises because the NCSG does
>>> have donors, but it does not have a bank account for said donations to be
>>> paid into. At this time they are paid into the NCUC's bank account (I
>>> believe NPOC also has one). Whether a bank account in Estonia would be
>>> helpful for us I am not so sure about.
>>>
>>> Ayden
>>>
>>>
>>> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>>> On Monday, January 7, 2019 4:45 PM, Paul Rosenzweig <paul.rosenzweig@
>>> REDBRANCHCONSULTING.COM> wrote:
>>>
>>> All
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> FWIW, I did some research on Estonian e-citizenship a year back for an
>>> American client.  The short answer is that “citizenship” is a misnomer.  It
>>> is more like a verified identity, that is backed (in this case) by the
>>> Estonian government and its infrastructure.  In other words, they will vet
>>> an individual, confirm their identity, and then use their infrastructure to
>>> issue a secure token to allow the individual to assert and prove that
>>> identity in any context where the counter-party will accept the Estonian
>>> government’s verification.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Right now, the main counter-party that will accept the identification
>>> is, naturally, the Estonian government itself.   They have ambitions to
>>> make this into a more-widely accepted system, but there hasn’t been that
>>> much uptake globally … yet.   The main virtue of the e-identity is that it
>>> is portable.  Once you get it (and, BTW, my understanding is that you do
>>> NOT need to fly to Estonia to get it – you can go to an Estonian embassy
>>> wherever they are in the world) you can use it from anywhere and with
>>> anyone who will accept it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As for uses – naturally the Estonian government uses it with Estonian
>>> citizens for almost all national purposes.  They also use it,
>>> institutionally, within Estonia for non-governmental, commercial purposes.
>>> One example of that (the one proposed here) is that a non-Estonian, with
>>> Estonian “e-citizenship” (really, as I’ve said, a verified Estonian
>>> identity) can use that identity to open a bank account in Estonia,
>>> irrespective of whether or not they are a “true” Estonian citizen.  [I
>>> assume, though I do not know, that the individual must also otherwise
>>> qualify to open a bank account – e.g. meet Estonia’s requirements for age;
>>> lack of a criminal record; etc.]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I really have no idea if NPOC, NCUC, NCSG need a bank account in the
>>> first place.  But if we do, our use case (globally distributed
>>> membership/owners) is exactly the use case Estonia hopes to attract.  They
>>> are still working out the kinks a bit, but as a matter of mechanics it
>>> should not be to difficult to accomplish, if we decide we want to do it.
>>> I’d be happy to help guide folks in the process when/if we go down that
>>> road.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers all (and Happy New Year)
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Paul Rosenzweig
>>>
>>> paul.rosenzweig at redbranchconsulting.com
>>>
>>> O: +1 (202) 547-0660
>>>
>>> M: +1 (202) 329-9650
>>>
>>> VOIP: +1 (202) 738-1739
>>>
>>> www.redbranchconsulting.com
>>>
>>> My PGP Key: https://keys.mailvelope.com/pks/lookup?op=get&search=
>>> 0x9A830097CA066684
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* NCSG-Discuss <NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU> *On Behalf Of *Joan
>>> Kerr
>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 7, 2019 10:17 AM
>>> *To:* NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
>>> *Subject:* Re: Opening an account for NPOC, NCUC and NCSG in Estonia
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Raoul,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The idea of e-citizenship is new to me.  What are the legal
>>> obligations?  I think this seems far reaching.  Perhaps, we can discuss the
>>> options within NPOC and then with the Finance Committee when we have clear
>>> definitions of how it might work.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 6:23 PM Raoul Plommer <plommer at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I've tried unsuccesfully opening an account for NPOC here in Finland and
>>> what it really comes down to, are the restrictions of having account owners
>>> that are based in Finland and every time they would be changed, they'd have
>>> to come over to Finland to do so. The same goes for the NCUC's current
>>> account.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Now, I think we (me and Tapani) have found a solution to our problems
>>> and it is such that I will get a e-citizenship in Estonia, register the C's
>>> and the SG in Estonia and then open the bank account to each of them
>>> separately in person. We'll probably need another few people to take
>>> e-residencies as well, to share the responsibility and accountability of
>>> said accounts and the e-residency costs 100€ per person.
>>> https://apply.gov.ee/
>>>
>>> None of our SG's organisational structure is officially recognised
>>> anywhere but inside ICANN - I think we should change that and register in a
>>> country that is actually a lot more lenient than Finland or USA, for
>>> example.
>>>
>>> https://www.estoniancompanyregistration.com/nonprofit-organisation-
>>> registration-in-estonia
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The most essential difference to most countries is that Estonia allows
>>> change of authorised users on bank accounts to people with e-residency ID,
>>> and this change can be done in any consulate of Estonia in the world.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> All I would need, is the boat trip to Tallinn and back and one night in
>>> a local hotel. This would be less than 200€ in total.
>>>
>>> 200€ for e-residency for two people, per account, so 600€.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We'd also need to cover the costs of registering our organisations in
>>> Estonia, which will probably make things easier, and I think all three can
>>> be registered for less that 200€ in total.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So... We'd need about a thousand euros + 5 people wanting to put their
>>> names as the account holders. What do you guys think? If we discuss this
>>> further, I might actually get all the details together by Kobe.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think it would be crucial to finally get our organisational
>>> infrastructure together and be able to change people as the account
>>> holders. Now the situation is really inflexible and reliant on a very few
>>> people with access to the accounts.
>>>
>>> Once we register the organisations as not-for-profits, we could also
>>> finally get an government ID to start using Google's nonprofit benefits
>>> which are really quite numerous. Same goes for Dropbox for example, they
>>> give 30% discount.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Raoul
>>>
>>> P.S. While I was searching, I found this a record of the CSG having a
>>> nonprofit register in the USA. I found that somewhat surprising.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Joan Kerr,
>>>
>>> Entrepreneur, Artist, Humanitarian
>>>
>>> T: +1 (416) 907-0783
>>>
>>> Skype: joankerr_fbsc
>>>
>>> fbsc.org, www.fbsc.eco
>>>
>>> Chair: Victory Garden Leadership Implementation Team
>>>
>>> Chair, Sustainable Agriculture, Global Humanitarian Technology Conference
>>>
>>> Chair: IEEE Smart Villages Project, Sustainable Agriculture Working Group
>>>
>>> Chair: ICANN Not for Profit Operational Concerns Constituency
>>>
>>> Recipient of the United Nations Civil Society Award (WSIS 2004)
>>>
>>> Recipient, Region of Durham Community Partnership Award
>>>
>>> Advisor, IEEE Humanitarian Initiatives Committee
>>>
>>> Advisor, Climate Smart Agriculture Youth Network, (CSAYN) Global
>>> Coordination Unit
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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