Opening an account for NPOC, NCUC and NCSG in Estonia

[Raoul Plommer]

At least the AdWords doesn't compromise our users' privacy. I think that
$10 000 alone is worth spending 70€ (or less) on it.

Also, as far as I know, we already use Google products for making comments
and spreadsheets and presentations too, so instead of creating these
documents one at a time, we could be creating a proper archives for our
files and documents.

I'd rather fill an ABR for creating this infrastructure, than waiting for
months and making ICANN pay thousands for advice that is probably not even
aware of e-residency in Estonia. It really seems like the best way of going
about this, but I'm of course open for better ideas.

-Raoul

On Mon, 7 Jan 2019 at 21:35, Ayden Férdeline <icann at ferdeline.com> wrote:

> I'm not sure we want to use Google products.
>
> I appreciate there is a legitimate need to formalise the NCSG's structure,
> but I would suggest we do this on the basis of solid legal advice. Perhaps
> we could submit an Additional Budget Request for independent legal advice
> to guide us through the various options at our disposal?
>
> Ayden
>
>
> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> On Monday, January 7, 2019 8:22 PM, Raoul Plommer <plommer at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> All three, NCSG/NPOC/NCUC have money, but they are under two accounts,
> Milton Mueller's (NCSG/NCUC) and mine (NPOC).
>
> If we die, it gets very difficult to access these funds. People die
> accidentally and prematurely all the time. We need accounts and two people
> as signatories for each. That will lessen the risk of not being able to
> access these funds substantially. That is an inarguable fact here.
>
> The point of registering the organisations officially, has many advantages
> and no disadvantages (that I can think of), apart from the initial payments
> to register these nonprofits. That is less than 70€ each. There are no
> further costs, as far as I'm aware.
>
> One very concrete benefit is Google's nonprofit deal, which gives Drive
> access for free, with 30gb (at least) and what is even more valuable, is
> the GoogleAds program for nonprofits, which is to the tune of $10 000/year.
>
> Like Paul said, the "e-residency" is more of an electronic ID, that is
> usable for Estonian identification purposes. One does not need to come to
> Estonia to get an e-residency, but presumably that's not true for _opening_
> a bank account.
>
> My knowledge on the exact specifics is still somewhat flimsy, but if
> people support this idea, we can start investigating further. I'm glad to
> see some people from Estonia already offering their help, which is great.
> This will surely help us a lot, if we choose to go ahead.
>
> -Raoul
>
>
>
> On Mon, 7 Jan 2019 at 21:04, Ayden Férdeline <icann at ferdeline.com> wrote:
>
>> I suppose the desire for a bank account arises because the NCSG does have
>> donors, but it does not have a bank account for said donations to be paid
>> into. At this time they are paid into the NCUC's bank account (I believe
>> NPOC also has one). Whether a bank account in Estonia would be helpful for
>> us I am not so sure about.
>>
>> Ayden
>>
>>
>> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>> On Monday, January 7, 2019 4:45 PM, Paul Rosenzweig <
>> paul.rosenzweig at REDBRANCHCONSULTING.COM> wrote:
>>
>> All
>>
>>
>>
>> FWIW, I did some research on Estonian e-citizenship a year back for an
>> American client.  The short answer is that “citizenship” is a misnomer.  It
>> is more like a verified identity, that is backed (in this case) by the
>> Estonian government and its infrastructure.  In other words, they will vet
>> an individual, confirm their identity, and then use their infrastructure to
>> issue a secure token to allow the individual to assert and prove that
>> identity in any context where the counter-party will accept the Estonian
>> government’s verification.
>>
>>
>>
>> Right now, the main counter-party that will accept the identification is,
>> naturally, the Estonian government itself.   They have ambitions to make
>> this into a more-widely accepted system, but there hasn’t been that much
>> uptake globally … yet.   The main virtue of the e-identity is that it is
>> portable.  Once you get it (and, BTW, my understanding is that you do NOT
>> need to fly to Estonia to get it – you can go to an Estonian embassy
>> wherever they are in the world) you can use it from anywhere and with
>> anyone who will accept it.
>>
>>
>>
>> As for uses – naturally the Estonian government uses it with Estonian
>> citizens for almost all national purposes.  They also use it,
>> institutionally, within Estonia for non-governmental, commercial purposes.
>> One example of that (the one proposed here) is that a non-Estonian, with
>> Estonian “e-citizenship” (really, as I’ve said, a verified Estonian
>> identity) can use that identity to open a bank account in Estonia,
>> irrespective of whether or not they are a “true” Estonian citizen.  [I
>> assume, though I do not know, that the individual must also otherwise
>> qualify to open a bank account – e.g. meet Estonia’s requirements for age;
>> lack of a criminal record; etc.]
>>
>>
>>
>> I really have no idea if NPOC, NCUC, NCSG need a bank account in the
>> first place.  But if we do, our use case (globally distributed
>> membership/owners) is exactly the use case Estonia hopes to attract.  They
>> are still working out the kinks a bit, but as a matter of mechanics it
>> should not be to difficult to accomplish, if we decide we want to do it.
>> I’d be happy to help guide folks in the process when/if we go down that
>> road.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers all (and Happy New Year)
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul Rosenzweig
>>
>> paul.rosenzweig at redbranchconsulting.com
>>
>> O: +1 (202) 547-0660
>>
>> M: +1 (202) 329-9650
>>
>> VOIP: +1 (202) 738-1739
>>
>> www.redbranchconsulting.com
>>
>> My PGP Key:
>> https://keys.mailvelope.com/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x9A830097CA066684
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* NCSG-Discuss <NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU> *On Behalf Of *Joan
>> Kerr
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 7, 2019 10:17 AM
>> *To:* NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
>> *Subject:* Re: Opening an account for NPOC, NCUC and NCSG in Estonia
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Raoul,
>>
>>
>>
>> The idea of e-citizenship is new to me.  What are the legal obligations?
>> I think this seems far reaching.  Perhaps, we can discuss the options
>> within NPOC and then with the Finance Committee when we have clear
>> definitions of how it might work.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 6:23 PM Raoul Plommer <plommer at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>>
>>
>> I've tried unsuccesfully opening an account for NPOC here in Finland and
>> what it really comes down to, are the restrictions of having account owners
>> that are based in Finland and every time they would be changed, they'd have
>> to come over to Finland to do so. The same goes for the NCUC's current
>> account.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Now, I think we (me and Tapani) have found a solution to our problems and
>> it is such that I will get a e-citizenship in Estonia, register the C's and
>> the SG in Estonia and then open the bank account to each of them separately
>> in person. We'll probably need another few people to take e-residencies as
>> well, to share the responsibility and accountability of said accounts and
>> the e-residency costs 100€ per person. https://apply.gov.ee/
>>
>> None of our SG's organisational structure is officially recognised
>> anywhere but inside ICANN - I think we should change that and register in a
>> country that is actually a lot more lenient than Finland or USA, for
>> example.
>>
>>
>> https://www.estoniancompanyregistration.com/nonprofit-organisation-registration-in-estonia
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The most essential difference to most countries is that Estonia allows
>> change of authorised users on bank accounts to people with e-residency ID,
>> and this change can be done in any consulate of Estonia in the world.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> All I would need, is the boat trip to Tallinn and back and one night in a
>> local hotel. This would be less than 200€ in total.
>>
>> 200€ for e-residency for two people, per account, so 600€.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> We'd also need to cover the costs of registering our organisations in
>> Estonia, which will probably make things easier, and I think all three can
>> be registered for less that 200€ in total.
>>
>>
>>
>> So... We'd need about a thousand euros + 5 people wanting to put their
>> names as the account holders. What do you guys think? If we discuss this
>> further, I might actually get all the details together by Kobe.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I think it would be crucial to finally get our organisational
>> infrastructure together and be able to change people as the account
>> holders. Now the situation is really inflexible and reliant on a very few
>> people with access to the accounts.
>>
>> Once we register the organisations as not-for-profits, we could also
>> finally get an government ID to start using Google's nonprofit benefits
>> which are really quite numerous. Same goes for Dropbox for example, they
>> give 30% discount.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Raoul
>>
>> P.S. While I was searching, I found this a record of the CSG having a
>> nonprofit register in the USA. I found that somewhat surprising.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Joan Kerr,
>>
>> Entrepreneur, Artist, Humanitarian
>>
>> T: +1 (416) 907-0783
>>
>> Skype: joankerr_fbsc
>>
>> fbsc.org, www.fbsc.eco
>>
>> Chair: Victory Garden Leadership Implementation Team
>>
>> Chair, Sustainable Agriculture, Global Humanitarian Technology Conference
>>
>> Chair: IEEE Smart Villages Project, Sustainable Agriculture Working Group
>>
>> Chair: ICANN Not for Profit Operational Concerns Constituency
>>
>> Recipient of the United Nations Civil Society Award (WSIS 2004)
>>
>> Recipient, Region of Durham Community Partnership Award
>>
>> Advisor, IEEE Humanitarian Initiatives Committee
>>
>> Advisor, Climate Smart Agriculture Youth Network, (CSAYN) Global
>> Coordination Unit
>>
>>
>>
>
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