[Comment] NCSG draft statement for CCWG on IANA transition proposal

Wed Dec 17 15:02:11 EET 2014

On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 7:18 PM, Nicolas Adam <nickolas.adam at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>  The *only* way to have true accountability for an organization is to have
> an *external* body to which the organization is being accountable *to*.
>

Nicolas i think the perspective where that is valid differ, i see ICANN
(and other communities like RIR and IETF) as having 2 bodies i.e the
organisation and the community. So i see a true and efficient
accountability as the one that is accountable to the community and vise
versa. This does not mean there won't be element of external
accountability, it means the community can leverage on the organisation
mechanism to engage an external system temporarily to ensure accountability
internally. This external engagement would be occasional and on by case
basis and will only provide unbiased facts/data that helps implement an
existing internal mechanism. A typical example is engaging external audit
who then provides data that helps determines next line of action.

Hence, keeping the things separate.
>
> This is not a reflection on things past. It is rather a reflection of
> things to come and on the impossibility of accountability to one self (no
> matter the good will).
>

Like i have said above, i don't think it will be totally accurate to say
accountability in this context is to self but its rather to the community
and if that is not currently existing, i think we should make that evident
instead.

I am not ICANN staff...and so don't have any personal interest except that
i like to see its community become more strengthened and self sustaining.

Thanks

Regards

Nicolas

On 17/12/2014 1:06 PM, Seun Ojedeji wrote:

 On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 6:53 PM, avri doria <avri at ella.com> wrote:
>
>  I do not believe that it is possible that icann could achieve a level of
> accountability that obviates the need for separability
>

 If what you've said above is the also the believe of the entire NCSG then
i rest my case. However i will note that implying that ICANN will never
achieve that level of accountability should not be the reason for
contracting but should be a reason to start a new organisation that will.

Perhaps the new gTLD is the reason why we think there is enough resources
to maintain contracting of the proposed structure....however i would have
preferred larger part of those resources (if indeed they will last) to be
used towards contributing to improving the development of the Internet

 Regards

>
>
>
>  avri
>
>  Sent from a T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji at GMAIL.COM>
> Date:12/17/2014 12:31 PM (GMT-05:00)
> To: NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: [NCSG-Discuss] [Comment] NCSG draft statement for CCWG on
> IANA transition proposal
>
>    Hello Avri,
>
>  Thanks i understand that the ICANN accountability implementation process
> may take some time, however i see think this transition could be an
> opportunity to expedite the process and it is with that motives that i
> added those text.
>
>  I will like to believe that everyone here is insisting on separability
> simply because there is no adequate accountability within the organisation.
> So my text is simply trying to say ".....we believe an internal to ICANN
> will be more efficient however due to the lack of adequate accountability
> we will support the current proposal"
>
>  I don't want to believe that we all don't see the complications that will
> be introduced by the implementation of the current cwg-stewardship
> proposal?
>
>  Regards
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 5:27 PM, Avri Doria <avri at acm.org> wrote:
>>
>>  Hi,
>>
>> I think your edits are incompatible with the previous sense of the
>> statement.
>>
>> I would not be able to support a statement that supported ICANN gaining
>> permanent unreversable and inseparable control of the IANA contract as you
>> seem to be suggesting.  I do not beleive there is any change the
>> Accountabilty effort could make that would give the degree of accountabilty
>> that separability bring.  There is much to be done in ICANN accountability
>> to make sure it is and stays fit  for holding the contract, but that will
>> not be enough for permanent merging of the IANA function into ICANN.
>>
>>
>> avri
>>
>>
>> On 17-Dec-14 11:01, Seun Ojedeji wrote:
>>
>>  Hello Rafik,
>>
>>  Thanks for your mail. Although i don't necessarily agree with all the
>> wordings in that draft(and i have noticed reluctance for re-wording),
>> however i think i can roughly agree with it with the few edits i just made.
>>
>>  Regards
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 4:43 PM, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Hi everyone,
>>>
>>>  we discussed in yesterday call  (find the recordings and transcripts
>>> beloww) the IANA transition working group proposal and the draft NCSG
>>> comment (
>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/14mDNLW17CJ_7rHSprzSAW90jhzPjlMiJf8qkbRM_Lek/edit?usp=sharing)
>>> .
>>>  The NCSG statement was sent previously to the NCSG members list and
>>> several comments were added and resolved. the current version was sent to
>>> NCSG policy committee for review and endorsement. we have to submit the
>>> comment by 22nd Dec.
>>> Thanks to those who worked in the comment and supported it.
>>>
>>>  Rafik
>>>
>>> 2014-12-17 21:13 GMT+09:00 Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>:
>>>>
>>>>   Dear All,
>>>>
>>>>  Please find attached and below the AC chat, transcript and MP3
>>>> recording of the NCSG Open call (Update on CCWG on IANA Transition) held
>>>> on Tuesday, 16 December 2014.
>>>>
>>>>  *MP3 recording: *
>>>> https://icann.box.com/shared/static/me2byrhudtqk36n3j0c4.mp3
>>>>
>>>>  *Attendance:* Rafik Dammak, Avri Doria, Stephanie Perrin, Milton
>>>> Mueller, Amr Elsadr, Matthieu Camus, Robin Gross, David Cake, Bill Drake,
>>>> Matthew Shears, Akinremi Peter Taiwo, Marilia Maciel, Robert Njathika
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  You can also find the recordings/info of this meeting and others at
>>>> this link on the wiki:
>>>> https://community.icann.org/display/gnsononcomstake/NCSG+Open+%28Update%29+Meetings
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    Many thanks,
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Maryam Bakoshi
>>>>
>>>> *Secretariat – NCSG, NCUC, NPOC*
>>>>
>>>> Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  *Email:*  maryam.bakoshi at icann.org
>>>>
>>>> *Mobile:*  +44 7737 698036 <%2B44%207737%20698036>
>>>>
>>>> *Skype:*  maryam.bakoshi.icann
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> --
>>  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Seun Ojedeji, Federal University Oye-Ekiti web:
>> http://www.fuoye.edu.ng <http://www.fuoye.edu.ng> Mobile: +2348035233535 **alt
>> email: <http://goog_1872880453>seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng
>> <seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng>*
>>
>> The key to understanding is humility - my view !
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
>  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> *Seun Ojedeji, Federal University Oye-Ekiti web:
> http://www.fuoye.edu.ng <http://www.fuoye.edu.ng> Mobile: +2348035233535 **alt
> email: <http://goog_1872880453>seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng
> <seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng>*
>
> The key to understanding is humility - my view !
>
>
>

-- 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Seun Ojedeji, Federal University Oye-Ekiti web:
http://www.fuoye.edu.ng <http://www.fuoye.edu.ng> Mobile: +2348035233535 **alt
email: <http://goog_1872880453>seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng
<seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng>*

The key to understanding is humility - my view !

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Seun Ojedeji,Federal University Oye-Ekitiweb:      http://www.fuoye.edu.ng
<http://www.fuoye.edu.ng> Mobile: +2348035233535**alt email:
<http://goog_1872880453>seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng
<seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng>*

The key to understanding is humility - my view !
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