[NCSG-EL-REF] Election-reform Digest, Vol 4, Issue 2
Martin Pablo Silva Valent
mpsilvavalent at gmail.com
Tue Jun 27 12:53:58 EEST 2017
I also think is a more harmonic with the NCSG chart 4.3 that states that votes always have to go to one of the candidates, NO or NOTA is not a candidate to vote for. Abstain is not voting.
> On Jun 27, 2017, at 11:43 AM, Martin Pablo Silva Valent <mpsilvavalent at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> I am concerned with a mechanism that can leave an open position that we need to fill, and there is a candidate willing to do so. It could also allow for lobbying against said candidate and leave it out without getting an alternative better option. Wining by default is part of normal democracy process in many elections, it is not necessary to get a NO option to achieve legitimacy, and it can jeopardize: the need for someone to take the needed position, open opportunities to all.
>
> Winning by default means: 1) someone is needed to do the work. 2) someone is volunteering to do the work. 3) No one else is volunteering to do it.
>
> So I would keep the system where we elect the one that gets more votes with the “abstein” option. A candidate with a lot of “abstein” will show that for whatever reasons a lot of people deny to participate in a positive vote, but it will give the candidate the fair chance to do the work that is needed.
>
> My two cents,
> Cheers,
> Martín Silva
>
>> On Jun 27, 2017, at 11:29 AM, Zalnieriute, Monika via Election-reform <election-reform at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:election-reform at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> I also strongly support Robin's idea, as it avoids all the confusion with the NOTA, and leaves the issues sorted out very clearly,
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Dr. Monika Zalnieriute
>>
>> Post-Doctoral Fellow @ Melbourne Law School |
>> The University of Melbourne I law.unimelb.edu.au <http://law.unimelb.edu.au/> I
>> 185 Pelham St, Carlton VIC 3053, Australia I
>>
>> Visiting Fellow @ Center for Media, Data and Society I
>> Central European University I cmds.ceu.edu <http://cmds.ceu.edu/> I
>>
>> Representative @ Executive Committee I
>> Non-Commercial Stakeholder Group I ICANN I icann.org <http://icann.org/> I
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Election-reform <election-reform-bounces at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:election-reform-bounces at lists.ncsg.is>> on behalf of election-reform-request at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:election-reform-request at lists.ncsg.is><election-reform-request at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:election-reform-request at lists.ncsg.is>>
>> Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 9:51 PM
>> To: election-reform at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:election-reform at lists.ncsg.is>
>> Subject: Election-reform Digest, Vol 4, Issue 2
>>
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>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: None of the Above (Poncelet Ileleji)
>> 2. Re: None of the Above (Grace Mutung'u)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 22:46:22 +0100
>> From: Poncelet Ileleji <pileleji at ymca.gm <mailto:pileleji at ymca.gm>>
>> To: Robin Gross <robin at ipjustice.org <mailto:robin at ipjustice.org>>, "Discussion about NCSG
>> election system reform." <election-reform at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:election-reform at lists.ncsg.is>>
>> Subject: Re: [NCSG-EL-REF] None of the Above
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAEux40vx-XNGhkbnORdiuouBT0Mbti=_2otZ88J4CqdewGfd6g at mail.gmail.com <mailto:CAEux40vx-XNGhkbnORdiuouBT0Mbti=_2otZ88J4CqdewGfd6g at mail.gmail.com>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Hi Robin,
>>
>> I total concur with your suggestion, it makes things easier and can even be
>> adopted at all our constituency level.
>>
>> Brilliant suggestion to me +1
>>
>> Poncelet
>>
>> On 26 June 2017 at 18:12, Robin Gross via Election-reform <
>> election-reform at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:election-reform at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>>
>> > Thanks, Tapani. I think we may want to approach this from a different
>> > angle. Instead of trying to come up with an interpretation for NOTA, let’s
>> > come up with a mechanism that clearly achieves our goal. It probably isn’t
>> > even called “NOTA”.
>> >
>> > What we are actually after is a way to make sure that every candidate
>> > faces a Yes or No option, so someone can’t win by default, and there must
>> > actually be *approval* of the candidate by the membership to be our
>> > representative.
>> >
>> > What is the best way to device that goal in the ballot? Perhaps simply a
>> > yes-no-abstain choice for each candidate would suffice? Then the x
>> > candidates with the most yes votes are winners (as long as they have more
>> > yes than no votes). We would need a procedure for how to handle the
>> > theoretical case in which there isn’t enough candidates approved by the
>> > membership to fill slots, but that is easily devised.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Robin
>> >
>> >
>> > On Jun 26, 2017, at 9:46 AM, Tapani Tarvainen via Election-reform <
>> > election-reform at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:election-reform at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Dear all,
>> >
>> > I'd like to get some feedback on the charter requirements.
>> >
>> > As you see there's no mention of NotA there. I can think
>> > of three ways to interpret it:
>> >
>> > A. The charter does not allow NotA at all.
>> >
>> > B. NotA can be considered a candidate.
>> >
>> > C. NotA can be thought of as allowed implicitly, by default,
>> > as most elections in general have something like it.
>> >
>> > Opinions?
>> >
>> > Other interpretations I haven't thought of?
>> >
>> > Tapani
>> >
>> > On Jun 26 11:00, Tapani Tarvainen via Election-reform (
>> > election-reform at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:election-reform at lists.ncsg.is>) wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Dear all,
>> >
>> > As time is running short, I think it's better to start with
>> > potentially most difficult issues and ones that *must* be
>> > resolved before the netx elections. So let's have a go at NotA.
>> >
>> > Initially I have two criteria I think must be met:
>> >
>> > (1) Compatibility with our charter, at least some reasonable
>> > interpretation of it.
>> >
>> > (2) Clarity. It should be easy to understand what the rules
>> > actually mean in any foreseeable situation.
>> >
>> > Feel free to suggest additions or comment on those.
>> >
>> > Regarding the first, here's the most relevant part of our Charter:
>> >
>> >
>> > 4.3 Election for NCSG GNSO Council Representatives (size, number, and
>> > distribution of votes):
>> >
>> > In the discussion below, N refers to the number of seats that need to
>> > be elected. Optimally N will equal 3 seats in years with normal
>> > rotation. Any number of reasons can cause this number to vary.
>> >
>> > • NCSG members classified as “individuals” will be given N votes and
>> > must assign 1 vote to each of N candidates.
>> >
>> > • NCSG members classified as “small organizations” will be given 2N
>> > votes and must assign exactly 2 votes to each of N candidates.
>> >
>> > • NCSG members classified as “large organizations” will be given 4N
>> > votes and must assign exactly 4 votes to each of N candidates.
>> >
>> >
>> > 4.4 Election of NCSG Chair (size and number of votes):
>> >
>> > • NCSG members classified as “individuals” will be given 1 vote.
>> >
>> > • NCSG members classified as “small organizations” will be given 2
>> > votes.
>> >
>> > • NCSG members classified as “large organizations” will be given 4
>> > votes.
>> >
>> > • Members must cast all their votes for a single candidate.
>> >
>> >
>> > The full charter is here, feel free to point out other things
>> > there you think are relevant:
>> >
>> > https://gnso.icann.org/en/improvements/ncsg-charter-05may11-en.pdf <https://gnso.icann.org/en/improvements/ncsg-charter-05may11-en.pdf>
>> >
>> > --
>> > Tapani Tarvainen
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Election-reform mailing list
>> > Election-reform at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:Election-reform at lists.ncsg.is>
>> > https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/election-reform <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/election-reform>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Election-reform mailing list
>> > Election-reform at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:Election-reform at lists.ncsg.is>
>> > https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/election-reform <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/election-reform>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Poncelet O. Ileleji MBCS
>> Coordinator
>> The Gambia YMCAs Computer Training Centre & Digital Studio
>> MDI Road Kanifing South
>> P. O. Box 421 Banjul
>> The Gambia, West Africa
>> Tel: (220) 4370240
>> Fax:(220) 4390793
>> Cell:(220) 9912508
>> Skype: pons_utd
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *www.ymca.gm <http://www.ymca.gm/> <http://www.ymca.gm <http://www.ymca.gm/>>http://jokkolabs.net/en/ <http://jokkolabs.net/en/>
>> <http://jokkolabs.net/en/ <http://jokkolabs.net/en/>>www.waigf.org <http://www.waigf.org/>
>> <http://www.waigf.org <http://www.waigf.org/>>www,insistglobal.com <http://insistglobal.com/> <http://www.itag.gm <http://www.itag.gm/>>www.npoc.org <http://www.npoc.org/>
>> <http://www.npoc.org <http://www.npoc.org/>>http://www.wsa-mobile.org/node/753 <http://www.wsa-mobile.org/node/753>
>> <http://www.wsa-mobile.org/node/753 <http://www.wsa-mobile.org/node/753>>*www.diplointernetgovernance.org <http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/>
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 00:51:32 +0300
>> From: "Grace Mutung'u" <nmutungu at gmail.com <mailto:nmutungu at gmail.com>>
>> To: Poncelet Ileleji <pileleji at ymca.gm <mailto:pileleji at ymca.gm>>, "Discussion about NCSG
>> election system reform." <election-reform at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:election-reform at lists.ncsg.is>>
>> Subject: Re: [NCSG-EL-REF] None of the Above
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAMwG4pyj2Brkw0caSOe9pW1aT8+BpVJh1yA4TcEpVZE-0Mv33Q at mail.gmail.com <mailto:CAMwG4pyj2Brkw0caSOe9pW1aT8+BpVJh1yA4TcEpVZE-0Mv33Q at mail.gmail.com>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Dear all,
>> For purposes of understanding the problem, would someone please explain
>> .....What mischief was being cured by including the NOTA? Was it to
>> encourage people to offer their candidacy, thereby avoiding only one
>> candidate? Or was it simply to give people a chance to express themselves
>> on candidacies, including those who were unopposed?
>>
>>
>> 2017-06-27 0:46 GMT+03:00 Poncelet Ileleji via Election-reform <
>> election-reform at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:election-reform at lists.ncsg.is>>:
>>
>> > Hi Robin,
>> >
>> > I total concur with your suggestion, it makes things easier and can even
>> > be adopted at all our constituency level.
>> >
>> > Brilliant suggestion to me +1
>> >
>> > Poncelet
>> >
>> > On 26 June 2017 at 18:12, Robin Gross via Election-reform <
>> > election-reform at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:election-reform at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Thanks, Tapani. I think we may want to approach this from a different
>> >> angle. Instead of trying to come up with an interpretation for NOTA, let’s
>> >> come up with a mechanism that clearly achieves our goal. It probably isn’t
>> >> even called “NOTA”.
>> >>
>> >> What we are actually after is a way to make sure that every candidate
>> >> faces a Yes or No option, so someone can’t win by default, and there must
>> >> actually be *approval* of the candidate by the membership to be our
>> >> representative.
>> >>
>> >> What is the best way to device that goal in the ballot? Perhaps simply a
>> >> yes-no-abstain choice for each candidate would suffice? Then the x
>> >> candidates with the most yes votes are winners (as long as they have more
>> >> yes than no votes). We would need a procedure for how to handle the
>> >> theoretical case in which there isn’t enough candidates approved by the
>> >> membership to fill slots, but that is easily devised.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Robin
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Jun 26, 2017, at 9:46 AM, Tapani Tarvainen via Election-reform <
>> >> election-reform at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:election-reform at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Dear all,
>> >>
>> >> I'd like to get some feedback on the charter requirements.
>> >>
>> >> As you see there's no mention of NotA there. I can think
>> >> of three ways to interpret it:
>> >>
>> >> A. The charter does not allow NotA at all.
>> >>
>> >> B. NotA can be considered a candidate.
>> >>
>> >> C. NotA can be thought of as allowed implicitly, by default,
>> >> as most elections in general have something like it.
>> >>
>> >> Opinions?
>> >>
>> >> Other interpretations I haven't thought of?
>> >>
>> >> Tapani
>> >>
>> >> On Jun 26 11:00, Tapani Tarvainen via Election-reform (
>> >> election-reform at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:election-reform at lists.ncsg.is>) wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Dear all,
>> >>
>> >> As time is running short, I think it's better to start with
>> >> potentially most difficult issues and ones that *must* be
>> >> resolved before the netx elections. So let's have a go at NotA.
>> >>
>> >> Initially I have two criteria I think must be met:
>> >>
>> >> (1) Compatibility with our charter, at least some reasonable
>> >> interpretation of it.
>> >>
>> >> (2) Clarity. It should be easy to understand what the rules
>> >> actually mean in any foreseeable situation.
>> >>
>> >> Feel free to suggest additions or comment on those.
>> >>
>> >> Regarding the first, here's the most relevant part of our Charter:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> 4.3 Election for NCSG GNSO Council Representatives (size, number, and
>> >> distribution of votes):
>> >>
>> >> In the discussion below, N refers to the number of seats that need to
>> >> be elected. Optimally N will equal 3 seats in years with normal
>> >> rotation. Any number of reasons can cause this number to vary.
>> >>
>> >> • NCSG members classified as “individuals” will be given N votes and
>> >> must assign 1 vote to each of N candidates.
>> >>
>> >> • NCSG members classified as “small organizations” will be given 2N
>> >> votes and must assign exactly 2 votes to each of N candidates.
>> >>
>> >> • NCSG members classified as “large organizations” will be given 4N
>> >> votes and must assign exactly 4 votes to each of N candidates.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> 4.4 Election of NCSG Chair (size and number of votes):
>> >>
>> >> • NCSG members classified as “individuals” will be given 1 vote.
>> >>
>> >> • NCSG members classified as “small organizations” will be given 2
>> >> votes.
>> >>
>> >> • NCSG members classified as “large organizations” will be given 4
>> >> votes.
>> >>
>> >> • Members must cast all their votes for a single candidate.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The full charter is here, feel free to point out other things
>> >> there you think are relevant:
>> >>
>> >> https://gnso.icann.org/en/improvements/ncsg-charter-05may11-en.pdf <https://gnso.icann.org/en/improvements/ncsg-charter-05may11-en.pdf>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Tapani Tarvainen
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Election-reform mailing list
>> >> Election-reform at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:Election-reform at lists.ncsg.is>
>> >> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/election-reform <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/election-reform>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Election-reform mailing list
>> >> Election-reform at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:Election-reform at lists.ncsg.is>
>> >> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/election-reform <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/election-reform>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Poncelet O. Ileleji MBCS
>> > Coordinator
>> > The Gambia YMCAs Computer Training Centre & Digital Studio
>> > MDI Road Kanifing South
>> > P. O. Box 421 Banjul
>> > The Gambia, West Africa
>> > Tel: (220) 4370240 <(220)%20437-0240>
>> > Fax:(220) 4390793 <(220)%20439-0793>
>> > Cell:(220) 9912508 <(220)%20991-2508>
>> > Skype: pons_utd
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > *www.ymca.gm <http://www.ymca.gm/> <http://www.ymca.gm <http://www.ymca.gm/>>http://jokkolabs.net/en/ <http://jokkolabs.net/en/>
>> > <http://jokkolabs.net/en/ <http://jokkolabs.net/en/>>www.waigf.org <http://www.waigf.org/>
>> > <http://www.waigf.org <http://www.waigf.org/>>www,insistglobal.com <http://insistglobal.com/> <http://www.itag.gm <http://www.itag.gm/>>www.npoc.org <http://www.npoc.org/>
>> > <http://www.npoc.org <http://www.npoc.org/>>http://www.wsa-mobile.org/node/753 <http://www.wsa-mobile.org/node/753>
>> > <http://www.wsa-mobile.org/node/753 <http://www.wsa-mobile.org/node/753>>*www.diplointernetgovernance.org <http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Election-reform mailing list
>> > Election-reform at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:Election-reform at lists.ncsg.is>
>> > https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/election-reform <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/election-reform>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Grace Mutung'u
>> Skype: gracebomu
>> @Bomu
>> PGP ID : 0x33A3450F
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