[NCSG-PC] [NCSG-SubPro] NCSG Response to the proposed GAC-GNSO Consultation on Closed Generics

Stephanie E Perrin stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
Sat Apr 23 00:21:05 EEST 2022


I think we should.

Stephanie

On 2022-04-22 5:16 p.m., Tomslin Samme-Nlar wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I think the council has now decided not to include the letter. So I 
> guess that leaves us to send it to the board ourselves?
>
> Tomslin
>
>
> On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 at 02:49, Kathy Kleiman <Kathy at kathykleiman.com> 
> wrote:
>
>     Hi Manju,
>
>     This is disappointing, but not surprising. Tx to you and our other
>     Councilors for the trying to hold a fair and balanced line here. /
>     /
>
>     /Can I ask whether the Council will include our entire NCSG letter
>     of objection to their response - or do they want to select parts
>     of it? /
>
>     If Council is willing to including our NCSG objection - whatever
>     terms /we//would like to include in the Council letter /- with a
>     clear and prominent reference to our NCSG letter of objection as
>     an appendix- then would it make it easier for the Board to see our
>     concerns?   One place, one document to read (?)
>
>     Of course, if the Council wants to edit our letter, then sending
>     it separately makes sense.  Also perhaps there are advantages to
>     sending it separately that I may not be seeing.
>
>     But the overall issue - that sending a few well-known,
>     very-opinionated, and frankly extreme (on this issue) Councilors
>     to the GAC (not including Manju, of course!) without guidance from
>     the GNSO Community is a distortion and misuse of the policy
>     development process.
>
>     Best, Kathy
>
>     On 4/21/2022 10:30 PM, 陳曼茹 Manju Chen wrote:
>>     Hi all,
>>
>>     Thought it's worth it to report back to you that our objection to
>>     the dialogue was acknowledged but brushed aside by the Council
>>     chair.
>>     I would be optimistic and say that we still have many chances to
>>     voice our opinions during the latter process, the first step
>>     being broadening the dialogue to include more stakeholders within
>>     the GNSO, not limited to Councilors.
>>
>>     Attached is the Council's draft response to the Board. There are
>>     discussions going on about whether the NCSG's letter of objection
>>     should be included in the response.
>>
>>     My personal opinion is opt-out of being included in the Council's
>>     response and send our letter to the Board ourselves. But I'd like
>>     to know what you think.
>>
>>     Council plans to send out the response by the Board Workshop next
>>     week so we'll have to respond before April 27th 1200 UTC (Wednesday).
>>
>>     Any suggestions are welcome!
>>
>>
>>     Best,
>>     Manju
>>
>>
>>     On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 7:38 AM Rafik Dammak
>>     <rafik.dammak at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>         Hi,
>>
>>
>>         I think the argument that will be used to respond to the idea
>>         of public comment is : councillors are representing their
>>         SG/C and are supposed to bring their input.
>>
>>         Moreover in more practical matter, we are raising issues
>>         about discussing this issue with GAC but public comment means
>>         another group like ALAC would be involved.  Any wider
>>         discussion should be then done within PDP and not through
>>         ad-hoc approach. I can see there might be some possible
>>         alignment with ALAC in the topic (just an assumption) but I
>>         would object to open the door just for tactical gain.
>>
>>         If we fail to stop the process, the next step would be to
>>         discuss the rules of engagement and scope for any discussion.
>>
>>         Best.
>>
>>         Rafik
>>
>>         On Thu, Apr 14, 2022, 00:59 Kathy Kleiman via NCSG-SubPro
>>         <ncsg-subpro at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>
>>             Hi Manju,
>>
>>             Great letter and great edits by Bruna.  I edited a few
>>             small things and then pulled out and expanded our "ask" -
>>             that we would like the GNSO Council to hold a comment
>>             period to provide input and guidance to this small group
>>             of individuals appointed to talk to the GAC (should our
>>             excellent and well-founded objections to the process be
>>             overruled).  This will provide a way for the GNSO Council
>>             to know the issues/concerns/hopes o the GNSO Community on
>>             this matter - and to provide clear input  and guidance to
>>             the the small Committee for the negotiations that may lie
>>             ahead.
>>
>>             Here's the paragraph - building on opening sentences of
>>             Manju and edits of Bruna:
>>
>>             We strongly support as the first step that the GNSO
>>             Council seek public comment from the community on how to
>>             proceed with Closed Generics, as opposed to having a
>>             ‘closed dialogue’ with the GAC where the scope and
>>             interlocutors of such dialogue is dictated by the ICANN
>>             Board.  This input will provide the Council with issues
>>             and concerns of the GNSO Community.  The Council, in
>>             turn, can provide guidance to the members of the Council
>>             who will be leading this discussion - should it occur
>>             despite our deep concerns for Multistakeholder process
>>             and precedent. How else will this small team - some with
>>             very, very long-held personal views on the subject - be
>>             bound to a discussion on behalf of the entire GNSO
>>             Community?
>>
>>             I recommend putting the paragraph in bold for those who
>>             tend to scan their email.
>>
>>             Best, Kathy
>>
>>             On 4/11/2022 11:04 PM, 陳曼茹 Manju Chen wrote:
>>
>>>             Hi all,
>>>
>>>             As discussed per yesterday's policy call, I've drafted
>>>             our formal response to be sent to the Council (and the
>>>             Board?)
>>>
>>>             You can find the statement here:
>>>             https://docs.google.com/document/d/1buufalOjubifqZJoPLqF4wBaIUxHKLWor7NvILtnrKg/edit?usp=sharing
>>>
>>>             Feedbacks and suggestions are welcome and will be highly
>>>             appreciated!
>>>
>>>
>>>             Best,
>>>             Manju
>>>
>>>             On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 10:22 AM 陳曼茹 Manju Chen
>>>             <manju at nii.org.tw> wrote:
>>>
>>>                 Hi Tomslin and all,
>>>
>>>                 Kurt and others obviously wanted it to be discussed
>>>                 in the Council meeting this week.
>>>                 Steve has suggested if that was the intent we could
>>>                 propose a late motion. I think NCSG is not in a
>>>                 hurry about this, so I'll let others handle it if
>>>                 they want to propose the motion.
>>>
>>>                 I can share more details and answer questions today
>>>                 later during our policy call.
>>>
>>>                 Best,
>>>                 Manju
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>                 On Sat, Apr 9, 2022 at 4:08 AM Tomslin Samme-Nlar
>>>                 <mesumbeslin at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>                     Hi Manju,
>>>                     Thank you so much for the update. Nice strategy
>>>                     there with the small team representation. Do you
>>>                     know when that deferral will be brought to the
>>>                     council's attention? Or maybe I missed it in my
>>>                     hundreds of emails.
>>>
>>>                     Thanks again.
>>>                     Tomslin
>>>
>>>
>>>                     On Thu, 7 Apr 2022 at 08:18, 陳曼茹 Manju Chen
>>>                     <manju at nii.org.tw> wrote:
>>>
>>>                         Hi team,
>>>
>>>                         Borrowing this thread to report back to you
>>>                         about what happened in the small team.
>>>
>>>                         So as you might have guessed, I was the only
>>>                         one saying no to the 'facilitated dialogue'.
>>>                         Jeff, Paul, and Kurt were eager to dive into
>>>                         the discussion of how we engage with GAC in
>>>                         this 'facilitated dialogue' but thankfully
>>>                         they still respected our objection. My first
>>>                         point of objection is that the small team is
>>>                         really not representative enough to make the
>>>                         decision of whether the Council should meet
>>>                         with the GAC. For now, we agreed to refer
>>>                         this back to the Council and make the
>>>                         decision at the Council level.
>>>
>>>                         I'm afraid though NCSG would be the only one
>>>                         saying no when we're at the Council level.
>>>                         Also when this pops up, we really have to
>>>                         have our statement ready explaining why
>>>                         we're saying no. I've put notes in the
>>>                         document Tomslin created and Kathy has been
>>>                         extremely helpful by providing reference
>>>                         material and edits:
>>>                         https://docs.google.com/document/d/1buufalOjubifqZJoPLqF4wBaIUxHKLWor7NvILtnrKg/edit?usp=sharing
>>>
>>>
>>>                         We will still need to phrase them into a
>>>                         formal statement, but I think it'd be an
>>>                         easy task now we have all the contents.
>>>
>>>                         Best,
>>>                         Manju
>>>
>>>                         On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 9:08 AM Tomslin
>>>                         Samme-Nlar <mesumbeslin at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>                             Hi team,
>>>
>>>                             I just wanted to call your attention to
>>>                             this response we promised to put
>>>                             together on the board proposed dialogue
>>>                             between GAC and Council on closed
>>>                             generics. The Council small team is
>>>                             about to be activated to start
>>>                             deliberations and I believe @陳曼茹 Manju
>>>                             Chen <mailto:manju at nii.org.tw> who is
>>>                             representing us there hopes to rely on
>>>                             the response we pen down to guide her
>>>                             contribution to that team.
>>>
>>>                             In this regard, can I request that we
>>>                             find some time to please put our ideas
>>>                             down on the Google
>>>                             formhttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1buufalOjubifqZJoPLqF4wBaIUxHKLWor7NvILtnrKg/edit?usp=sharing
>>>
>>>                             Looking forward to your help with this.
>>>                             In the meantime, i'll review my meeting
>>>                             notes and put down some feedback we got
>>>                             during our policy call on the document.
>>>
>>>                             Warmly,
>>>                             Tomslin
>>>
>>>                             On Wed, 16 Mar 2022, 22:25 Tomslin
>>>                             Samme-Nlar, <mesumbeslin at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>                                 Hi all,
>>>
>>>                                 As a follow-up to my previous email
>>>                                 regarding the board's proposed
>>>                                 facilitated dialogue between GAC and
>>>                                 GNSO council, I have created this
>>>                                 Google doc [
>>>                                 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1buufalOjubifqZJoPLqF4wBaIUxHKLWor7NvILtnrKg/edit?usp=sharing
>>>                                 ] to capture our response to this
>>>                                 proposal in the form of a letter to
>>>                                 the council small team on Closed
>>>                                 Generics.
>>>
>>>                                 Inputs to the document are welcomed
>>>                                 and for your convenience, attached
>>>                                 again is the letter from the board
>>>                                 and the accompanying framing paper.
>>>
>>>                                 Regards,
>>>                                 Tomslin
>>>
>>>
>>>                                 On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 at 08:12,
>>>                                 Tomslin Samme-Nlar
>>>                                 <mesumbeslin at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>                                     Dear everyone,
>>>
>>>                                     Here is the framing paper on the
>>>                                     board's proposed dialogue
>>>                                     between GNSO Council and the GAC
>>>                                     on Closed Generics that was
>>>                                     promised.
>>>
>>>                                     Comments are welcomed. I will
>>>                                     also be sending a separate email
>>>                                     with a link to the Google doc
>>>                                     where we intend to draft a
>>>                                     letter as a response to this.
>>>
>>>                                     Regards,
>>>                                     Tomslin
>>>
>>>
>>>                                     ---------- Forwarded message
>>>                                     ---------
>>>                                     From: *Wendy Profit via
>>>                                     Gnso-chairs* <gnso-chairs at icann.org>
>>>                                     Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2022 at 04:33
>>>                                     Subject: [gnso-chairs]
>>>                                     [CORRESPONDENCE] Maarten
>>>                                     Botterman to Manal Ismail and
>>>                                     Philippe Fouquart - GAC-GNSO
>>>                                     Consultation on Closed Generics
>>>                                     To: manal.ismail at board.icann.org
>>>                                     <manal.ismail at board.icann.org>,
>>>                                     Manal Ismail <manal at tra.gov.eg>,
>>>                                     philippe.fouquart at orange.com
>>>                                     <philippe.fouquart at orange.com>,
>>>                                     gnso-chairs at icann.org
>>>                                     <gnso-chairs at icann.org>
>>>                                     Cc: Secretary
>>>                                     <secretary at icann.org>,
>>>                                     Correspondence
>>>                                     <Correspondence at icann.org>,
>>>                                     Board Ops Team
>>>                                     <board-ops-team at icann.org>,
>>>                                     gnso-secs at icann.org
>>>                                     <gnso-secs at icann.org>, GACSTAFF
>>>                                     <gac-staff at icann.org>, Maarten
>>>                                     Botterman
>>>                                     <maarten.botterman at board.icann.org>
>>>
>>>
>>>                                     Dear Manal and Philippe,
>>>
>>>                                     Pursuant to the letter sent
>>>                                     recently (6 March 2022, attached
>>>                                     for reference), we are now
>>>                                     forwarding the associated
>>>                                     framework paper entitled
>>>                                     “Board-Facilitated Process for a
>>>                                     GAC - GNSO Council Dialogue on
>>>                                     Closed Generics”, also attached.
>>>
>>>                                     **
>>>
>>>                                     Thank you and best regards,
>>>
>>>                                     Wendy Profit
>>>
>>>                                     ICANN
>>>
>>>                                     Board Operations Senior Manager
>>>
>>>                                     12025 Waterfront Drive, Suite 300
>>>
>>>                                     Los Angeles, CA 90094
>>>
>>>                                     *From: *Wendy Profit
>>>                                     <wendy.profit at icann.org>
>>>                                     *Date: *Sunday, March 6, 2022 at
>>>                                     3:58 PM
>>>                                     *To:
>>>                                     *"manal.ismail at board.icann.org"
>>>                                     <manal.ismail at board.icann.org>,
>>>                                     "manal at tra.gov.eg"
>>>                                     <manal at tra.gov.eg>,
>>>                                     "philippe.fouquart at orange.com"
>>>                                     <philippe.fouquart at orange.com>
>>>                                     *Cc: *Maarten Botterman
>>>                                     <maarten.botterman at board.icann.org>,
>>>                                     "gnso-chairs at icann.org"
>>>                                     <gnso-chairs at icann.org>,
>>>                                     GACSTAFF <gac-staff at icann.org>,
>>>                                     "gnso-secs at icann.org"
>>>                                     <gnso-secs at icann.org>, ICANN
>>>                                     Board Ops
>>>                                     <board-ops-team at icann.org>,
>>>                                     Correspondence
>>>                                     <Correspondence at icann.org>,
>>>                                     Secretary <secretary at icann.org>
>>>                                     *Subject: *[CORRESPONDENCE]
>>>                                     Maarten Botterman to Manal
>>>                                     Ismail and Philippe Fouquart -
>>>                                     GAC-GNSO Consultation on Closed
>>>                                     Generics
>>>
>>>                                     Dear Manal and Philippe,
>>>
>>>                                     Please find the attached letter
>>>                                     from ICANN Chair Maarten
>>>                                     Botterman regarding a proposed
>>>                                     formal consultation between the
>>>                                     GAC and GNSO Council on how to
>>>                                     handle the subject of closed
>>>                                     generics in gTLD applications.
>>>
>>>                                     Thank you and best regards,
>>>
>>>                                     Wendy Profit
>>>
>>>                                     ICANN
>>>
>>>                                     Board Operations Senior Manager
>>>
>>>                                     12025 Waterfront Drive, Suite 300
>>>
>>>                                     Los Angeles, CA 90094
>>>
>>>                                     _______________________________________________
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>>>                                     Gnso-chairs at icann.org
>>>                                     https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-chairs
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>>             -- 
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>>
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