From stephanie.perrin  Fri Mar  9 15:02:51 2018
From: stephanie.perrin (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2018 08:02:51 -0500
Subject: [PC-NCSG] FW: Letter about GDPR and WHOIS
In-Reply-To: <20180309105309.15306838.96688.152@mobile.gc.ca>
References: <20180309105309.15306838.96688.152@mobile.gc.ca>
Message-ID: <331b6e8f-6b15-9c9c-6177-ac8dd3e21da9@mail.utoronto.ca>

In case you have not seen this yet....

Stephanie



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From rafik.dammak at gmail.com  Thu Mar  1 07:28:55 2018
From: rafik.dammak at gmail.com (Rafik Dammak)
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2018 14:28:55 +0900
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Fw: [council] Draft of Public Comments - ICANN's
 Draft FY19 Budget and Ops Plan
In-Reply-To: <E-H0YSAURJd3U1vbB6eDEkKoIuIonSfhLoithjlDIScnpEgIbTBDd42aVLI-1UhYMEWEbQTBzTRg3M16-wDJTXnx0kj0lQpgl-1fonPueYA=@ferdeline.com>
References: <S0cVrAOj09cnV2CMjO99FElrAZerXWf6FUtSsv-Zd5UMoPqm5IgGCgmme4nHgMfNpd6FspTr8nRfkVh0E4EHa1_bArBvcdVqh-0JH-tV7fg=@ferdeline.com>
 <E-H0YSAURJd3U1vbB6eDEkKoIuIonSfhLoithjlDIScnpEgIbTBDd42aVLI-1UhYMEWEbQTBzTRg3M16-wDJTXnx0kj0lQpgl-1fonPueYA=@ferdeline.com>
Message-ID: <CAH5sThmuUY-Y=rxUTA9A4Ja4JyU22ThqmOwzZnf=NbQVySOCTA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ayden,

Thanks for this,
I reviewed the comment (also last edits by Donna). I think it is getting
shape well but still, we have to be cautious with regard to other groups
comments since not all of them were that active in SCBO and may ask for
last minute changes.
I am thinking if we can suggest more about supporting PDP work and not just
highlighting subpro , one suggestion was that consideration should be made
for budgeting the PDPs and their upcoming implementation based on GNSO
council planning. maybe adding more consultation from finance dept to the
council on that matter. do you think that is possible at this stage?
after the comments period, the council still has to engage at Puerto Rico
meeting in the budget-related sessions and with finance team.

thanks again for the work done there and steering the effort.

Best,

Rafik


2018-02-28 6:48 GMT+09:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>:

> Dear all,
>
> I have sent this communication through to the Council on behalf of the
> Standing Committee on ICANN Budget and Operations. I am sharing this here
> on our list for two reasons; firstly, to make sure our Councilors are happy
> with it (it would be embarrassing for any concerns to be flagged on the
> Council list - please try to resolve them here or with me directly), and
> secondly, to see if there might be any elements that we would like to
> borrow and address in our (NCSG) comment on the Budget. Happy to hear your
> thoughts. Thank you.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Ayden
>
>
> ??????? Original Message ???????
> On 27 February 2018 10:31 PM, Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com> wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
> On behalf of the Standing Committee on ICANN Budget and Operations, please
> find attached the latest working draft of our comments on the FY19 Budget
> for your review.
>
> As mentioned on our Council call last Thursday, we are seeking to submit
> these comments on behalf of the Council on 8 March absent any objections
> from a member of the Council.
>
> Please can you review the attached file by close of business in your
> timezone this Friday, 2 March. We will then consider your comments on our
> call on Monday, 5 March and submit a revised version of this comment for
> your final review immediately after our call on Monday. Thank you very much.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Ayden F?rdeline
> linkedin.com/in/ferdeline <http://www.linkedin.com/in/ferdeline>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
>
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From rafik.dammak at gmail.com  Thu Mar  1 07:59:47 2018
From: rafik.dammak at gmail.com (Rafik Dammak)
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2018 14:59:47 +0900
Subject: [NCSG-PC] [new draft] NCSG Budget Comment
In-Reply-To: <-LWvq1ayuCH7QYrxmLEHxXonVRpDBhSw_ewTiauHogk7pPnyLCNEsFn0Bkwzzdr17c_4RsXH3HT6nQcFpguunqegSWd2xP8y-QnhlsW3ZaM=@ferdeline.com>
References: <fszTbi7KngfWh_ihhjgri94y0Uc7Oc7pD_WcXW_PrpODCNOPHeGJMP6RC_cfAp9BUOAfuD5xeH1cFwokeX9pjp_b6alZlN7TOHv3N6BEYe4=@ferdeline.com>
 <CAH5sTh=mwdVbha1yLP2XujWFFt+X9VpPJODuP2mzJk-o8jM23w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJjnsDGw++awsh-NjKOAdR+d2xDvQu1Y7-j7R_maeZMiF3pNJw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABDXvWrLVBZcqwKC+pYoL9PhcK1aVqUDE8H-VmwvvkRyCHGgOQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <zw_4rZDtawvwnzx_KkoiqN6AQXqPcn9_OZrK-6Oa1mqalY8REoFuUyko5jUoWLgC7EBkjfLyHDN5RBsXKlH_99YVUD-YyEd7-6uXU2LbTu4=@ferdeline.com>
 <CABDXvWpUQNT4upbdySp-es6dhTcOvBndEitxn7AF3+d3qh0esQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <-LWvq1ayuCH7QYrxmLEHxXonVRpDBhSw_ewTiauHogk7pPnyLCNEsFn0Bkwzzdr17c_4RsXH3HT6nQcFpguunqegSWd2xP8y-QnhlsW3ZaM=@ferdeline.com>
Message-ID: <CAH5sThm9Sax1AZx68gUUCUNt=bENXw+_3qOiJNEjvVvcK0wSyQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

reading and comparing the related paragraphs in council and NCSG comments,
ours seems simpler and the main part is basically about the assessment and
evaluation of the programs as discussed before. I won't go into semantics
but I believe we are taking the simple position of evaluation of the
programs for now before making any decision.

the comment is in good shape too for submission and not critical comments
pending there. @Ayden can you give another look for clean-up

Asking all PC members to review, help for proof-reading in next day so we
can submit before the public comment deadline.

Best,

Rafik



2018-02-26 19:12 GMT+09:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>:

> Thanks Arsene, I think we are expressing the same sentiment albeit
> diplomatically, however I will allow Rafik as PC Chair to mediate and
> resolve this one.
>
> Best wishes, Ayden
>
>
> ??????? Original Message ???????
> On 26 February 2018 11:10 AM, Ars?ne Tungali <arsenebaguma at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> May I suggest something like: "We do not support the current suggested
> harsh cut on these programs but we request an assessment before any such
> decision can be taken". This is what i would like to see there. I am not
> that good in English so would suggest a rephrasing so it means this for me.
> If what is written there is the same as what i am sugesting, then fine with
> me. The current language on that one sentence is confusing for me.
> And i will leave this here for you guys to decide as a group.
>
> Thank you,
> Arsene
>
> ------------------------
> **Ars?ne Tungali* <http://about.me/ArseneTungali>*
> Co-Founder & Executive Director, *Rudi international
> <http://www.rudiinternational.org>*,
> CEO,* Smart Services Sarl <http://www.smart-serv.info>*, *Mabingwa Forum
> <http://www.mabingwa-forum.com>*
> Tel: +243 993810967 <+243%20993%20810%20967>
> GPG: 523644A0
> *Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo*
> 2015 Mandela Washington Felllow
> <http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html>
> (YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF Brazil
> <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/igf-ambassadors-programme/Past-Ambassadors>
> & Mexico
> <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/Current-Ambassadors>)
> - AFRISIG 2016 <http://afrisig.org/afrisig-2016/class-of-2016/> - Blogger
> <http://tungali.blogspot.com> - ICANN's GNSO Council
> <https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm> Member. AFRINIC Fellow
> (Mauritius
> <http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/1907-afrinic-25-fellowship-winners>
> )* - *IGFSA Member <http://www.igfsa.org/> - Internet Governance -
> Internet Freedom.
>
> Check the *2016 State of Internet Freedom in DRC* report (English
> <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=234>) and (French
> <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=242>)
>
> 2018-02-26 12:04 GMT+02:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>:
>
>> I feel like I'm responding to a carbon copy of Martin's comment - so my
>> answer remains the same! :-) The dictionary definition of 'rightsizing' is
>> to "convert (something) to an appropriate or optimum size." That's what we
>> are saying, and I think it is apparent if read in the context of the entire
>> paragraph and not that one sentence which has been extracted.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ayden
>>
>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>> On 26 February 2018 10:19 AM, Ars?ne Tungali <arsenebaguma at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I believe this is the section that is problematic in my view and needs to
>> be rephrased: "*We support the rightsizing of the fellowship and NextGen
>> programmes*." It means for me that we support the fact that those
>> programs are cut the way it is suggested in the budget. I don't think we
>> have consensus on this and we should not support, as a SG, the way these
>> programs have been reduced in number (by half or so). I may be wrong though
>> :)
>>
>> I think what we encourage, and what we have agreement on, is the need for
>> an assessment on the effectiveneess of the program and only after that
>> assessment, we can agree on the right action to take on it. This can lead
>> to a cut in number of attendees or anything else but we cannot say that at
>> this moment, before that professional assessment is done. And I believe
>> that's what we pushed for at Council level.
>> Other than that, i fully support the submission of this comment and would
>> like to thank Ayden and everyone for their participation. After reading the
>> comment, it captures everything we discussed and captures what we stand
>> for. As i always say, this is a good informational piece as well for us.
>>
>> ------------------------
>> **Ars?ne Tungali* <http://about.me/ArseneTungali>*
>> Co-Founder & Executive Director, *Rudi international
>> <http://www.rudiinternational.org>*,
>> CEO,* Smart Services Sarl <http://www.smart-serv.info>*, *Mabingwa Forum
>> <http://www.mabingwa-forum.com>*
>> Tel: +243 993810967 <+243%20993%20810%20967>
>> GPG: 523644A0
>> *Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo*
>> 2015 Mandela Washington Felllow
>> <http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html>
>> (YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF Brazil
>> <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/igf-ambassadors-programme/Past-Ambassadors>
>> & Mexico
>> <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/Current-Ambassadors>)
>> - AFRISIG 2016 <http://afrisig.org/afrisig-2016/class-of-2016/> - Blogger
>> <http://tungali.blogspot.com> - ICANN's GNSO Council
>> <https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm> Member. AFRINIC Fellow
>> (Mauritius
>> <http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/1907-afrinic-25-fellowship-winners>
>> )* - *IGFSA Member <http://www.igfsa.org/> - Internet Governance -
>> Internet Freedom.
>>
>> Check the *2016 State of Internet Freedom in DRC* report (English
>> <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=234>) and (French
>> <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=242>)
>>
>> 2018-02-22 6:42 GMT+02:00 Martin Pablo Silva Valent <
>> mpsilvavalent at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Is all good for me, except for the same part I opposed at council level.
>>> I do not support the downsizing of the fellowship and nextgen by a blind
>>> cut with no metrics and debate to balance it out.
>>>
>>> If that is changed slightly like you did for the council to change that
>>> part, I will fully support.
>>>
>>>  Cheers,
>>> Martin
>>>
>>> On 21 Feb 2018 21:22, "Rafik Dammak" <rafik.dammak at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks Ayden for the revisions,
>>>> I want to ask all PC members to review asap the draft for endorsment,
>>>> the deadline for submission is 2 weeks away and just before PR meeting.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Rafik
>>>>
>>>> 2018-02-22 9:14 GMT+09:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have revised the proposed NCSG comment on the FY19 budget:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tBia4z5QQFGz9vFUQUkS0lbZ
>>>>> NqU6C5n4pyUmlH3m8e8/edit?usp=sharing
>>>>>
>>>>> It has not received very many edits or comments just yet. I hope it is
>>>>> on the right track.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ayden
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
>
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From rafik.dammak at gmail.com  Thu Mar  1 08:10:46 2018
From: rafik.dammak at gmail.com (Rafik Dammak)
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2018 15:10:46 +0900
Subject: [NCSG-PC] For approval, Art 29WP letter
In-Reply-To: <9943b747-7e3c-4996-3451-264c7de89306@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <2b6f5fe6-72c8-d162-ba88-5815f1e505dc@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <f54dce74-980f-243e-10a0-7e83ecf4a5fb@kathykleiman.com>
 <9943b747-7e3c-4996-3451-264c7de89306@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <CAH5sThmYu9WoO+PwXb67z3Bj9Gh-8kpkBbbXLADY4mehN-KMLw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Thanks, Stephanie again for this,
if there is no strong objection in NCSG lists by Friday 2nd March 11:59
UTC, we can interpret that we got consensus on sending the letter. We are
following here a "fast-track" approach due to the time constraint imposed
by the GDPR work. As the letter is signed by Farzaneh in her quality of
NCSG chair, she is tasked to send it.  for convenience, can you share what
are the mail addresses to send to?
it is aligned with what we discussed regarding the interim model comment:
we made a first principled submission but now it is time to work around
what it seems the convergence model and influence it.  Farzaneh shared the
details about the webinar scheduled for tomorrow and we will continue the
discussion there about the next steps and prepare for Puerto Rico.

Best,

Rafik

2018-03-01 0:09 GMT+09:00 Stephanie Perrin <
stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>:

> Attached is a cleaned up version which harmonizes our name with no hyphens
> (not that I like it, but we have cards printed that way so....)  I dated it
> for tomorrow assuming it will go out then....
>
> I was remiss in not thanking Farzi for starting this draft off, and
> providing all the background NCSG info, and to Ayden for valuable comments
> and contributions.
>
> Stephanie
> On 2018-02-27 21:48, Kathy Kleiman wrote:
>
> I think this letter is brilliant. Tx you, Stephanie, for drafting such an
> amazing piece!
> Best, Kathy
>
> On 2/27/2018 5:49 PM, Stephanie Perrin wrote:
>
> Please find attached the draft Article 29 Working Party letter, for
> approval.
>
> cheers Stephanie
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing listNCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.ishttps://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing listNCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.ishttps://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
>
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From icann at ferdeline.com  Thu Mar  1 09:40:06 2018
From: icann at ferdeline.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ayden_F=C3=A9rdeline?=)
Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2018 02:40:06 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-PC] [new draft] NCSG Budget Comment
In-Reply-To: <CAH5sThm9Sax1AZx68gUUCUNt=bENXw+_3qOiJNEjvVvcK0wSyQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fszTbi7KngfWh_ihhjgri94y0Uc7Oc7pD_WcXW_PrpODCNOPHeGJMP6RC_cfAp9BUOAfuD5xeH1cFwokeX9pjp_b6alZlN7TOHv3N6BEYe4=@ferdeline.com>
 <CAH5sTh=mwdVbha1yLP2XujWFFt+X9VpPJODuP2mzJk-o8jM23w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJjnsDGw++awsh-NjKOAdR+d2xDvQu1Y7-j7R_maeZMiF3pNJw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABDXvWrLVBZcqwKC+pYoL9PhcK1aVqUDE8H-VmwvvkRyCHGgOQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <zw_4rZDtawvwnzx_KkoiqN6AQXqPcn9_OZrK-6Oa1mqalY8REoFuUyko5jUoWLgC7EBkjfLyHDN5RBsXKlH_99YVUD-YyEd7-6uXU2LbTu4=@ferdeline.com>
 <CABDXvWpUQNT4upbdySp-es6dhTcOvBndEitxn7AF3+d3qh0esQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <-LWvq1ayuCH7QYrxmLEHxXonVRpDBhSw_ewTiauHogk7pPnyLCNEsFn0Bkwzzdr17c_4RsXH3HT6nQcFpguunqegSWd2xP8y-QnhlsW3ZaM=@ferdeline.com>
 <CAH5sThm9Sax1AZx68gUUCUNt=bENXw+_3qOiJNEjvVvcK0wSyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ke4WXjdWsoOLyw0S_kcPrlLciqTkHG4xEp7qpV6WtvDSnicg_qgjdpJPHGUEbOv9RL7cAhgr4V5E_uIG82ifvmvUQtjAhXW8QaE1jagPj4A=@ferdeline.com>

Thanks, Rafik-

I agree that our (NCSG) comment has a clearer ASK on this issue. The Council comment is going to great efforts to suggest nothing, particularly nothing that has cost implications... the contracted parties are now saying on the list that they are concerned ICANN could use our comment as justification to raise fees as a means of meeting operational requirements. Hence, whenever there is the suggestion for metrics, we are being asked how much said metrics will cost and the suggestion comes in that we just scrap X if there is "any doubt" as to its value. Except for GSE, we can't question the resources allocated to GSE...

But back to our comment. I will do a final tidy up now. The comment has been on the NCSG-Discuss list for four weeks now (six weeks on this PC list) so I hope we will be able to wrap this up and submit it tomorrow, if there is support to do so. Thank you.

Ayden

??????? Original Message ???????
On 1 March 2018 6:59 AM, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> reading and comparing the related paragraphs in council and NCSG comments, ours seems simpler and the main part is basically about the assessment and evaluation of the programs as discussed before. I won't go into semantics but I believe we are taking the simple position of evaluation of the programs for now before making any decision.
>
> the comment is in good shape too for submission and not critical comments pending there. @Ayden can you give another look for clean-up
>
> Asking all PC members to review, help for proof-reading in next day so we can submit before the public comment deadline.
>
> Best,
>
> Rafik
>
> 2018-02-26 19:12 GMT+09:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>:
>
>> Thanks Arsene, I think we are expressing the same sentiment albeit diplomatically, however I will allow Rafik as PC Chair to mediate and resolve this one.
>>
>> Best wishes, Ayden
>>
>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>> On 26 February 2018 11:10 AM, Ars?ne Tungali <arsenebaguma at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> May I suggest something like: "We do not support the current suggested harsh cut on these programs but we request an assessment before any such decision can be taken". This is what i would like to see there. I am not that good in English so would suggest a rephrasing so it means this for me. If what is written there is the same as what i am sugesting, then fine with me. The current language on that one sentence is confusing for me.
>>> And i will leave this here for you guys to decide as a group.
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> Arsene
>>>
>>> ------------------------
>>> *[Ars?ne Tungali](http://about.me/ArseneTungali)*
>>> Co-Founder & Executive Director, [Rudi international](http://www.rudiinternational.org),
>>> CEO, [Smart Services Sarl](http://www.smart-serv.info), [Mabingwa Forum](http://www.mabingwa-forum.com)
>>> Tel: [+243 993810967](tel:+243%20993%20810%20967)
>>> GPG: 523644A0
>>> Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo
>>> [2015 Mandela Washington Felllow](http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html) (YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF [Brazil](http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/igf-ambassadors-programme/Past-Ambassadors) & [Mexico](http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/Current-Ambassadors)) - [AFRISIG 2016](http://afrisig.org/afrisig-2016/class-of-2016/) - [Blogger](http://tungali.blogspot.com) - ICANN's [GNSO Council](https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm) Member.AFRINIC Fellow([Mauritius](http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/1907-afrinic-25-fellowship-winners)) - [IGFSA Member](http://www.igfsa.org/) - Internet Governance - Internet Freedom.
>>>
>>> Check the 2016 State of Internet Freedom in DRC report ([English](http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=234)) and ([French](http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=242))
>>>
>>> 2018-02-26 12:04 GMT+02:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>:
>>>
>>>> I feel like I'm responding to a carbon copy of Martin's comment - so my answer remains the same! :-) The dictionary definition of 'rightsizing' is to "convert (something) to an appropriate or optimum size." That's what we are saying, and I think it is apparent if read in the context of the entire paragraph and not that one sentence which has been extracted.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Ayden
>>>>
>>>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>>>> On 26 February 2018 10:19 AM, Ars?ne Tungali <arsenebaguma at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I believe this is the section that is problematic in my view and needs to be rephrased: "We support the rightsizing of the fellowship and NextGen programmes." It means for me that we support the fact that those programs are cut the way it is suggested in the budget. I don't think we have consensus on this and we should not support, as a SG, the way these programs have been reduced in number (by half or so). I may be wrong though :)
>>>>>
>>>>> I think what we encourage, and what we have agreement on, is the need for an assessment on the effectiveneess of the program and only after that assessment, we can agree on the right action to take on it. This can lead to a cut in number of attendees or anything else but we cannot say that at this moment, before that professional assessment is done. And I believe that's what we pushed for at Council level.
>>>>> Other than that, i fully support the submission of this comment and would like to thank Ayden and everyone for their participation. After reading the comment, it captures everything we discussed and captures what we stand for. As i always say, this is a good informational piece as well for us.
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>> *[Ars?ne Tungali](http://about.me/ArseneTungali)*
>>>>> Co-Founder & Executive Director, [Rudi international](http://www.rudiinternational.org),
>>>>> CEO, [Smart Services Sarl](http://www.smart-serv.info), [Mabingwa Forum](http://www.mabingwa-forum.com)
>>>>> Tel: [+243 993810967](tel:+243%20993%20810%20967)
>>>>> GPG: 523644A0
>>>>> Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo
>>>>> [2015 Mandela Washington Felllow](http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html) (YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF [Brazil](http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/igf-ambassadors-programme/Past-Ambassadors) & [Mexico](http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/Current-Ambassadors)) - [AFRISIG 2016](http://afrisig.org/afrisig-2016/class-of-2016/) - [Blogger](http://tungali.blogspot.com) - ICANN's [GNSO Council](https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm) Member.AFRINIC Fellow([Mauritius](http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/1907-afrinic-25-fellowship-winners)) - [IGFSA Member](http://www.igfsa.org/) - Internet Governance - Internet Freedom.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check the 2016 State of Internet Freedom in DRC report ([English](http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=234)) and ([French](http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=242))
>>>>>
>>>>> 2018-02-22 6:42 GMT+02:00 Martin Pablo Silva Valent <mpsilvavalent at gmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is all good for me, except for the same part I opposed at council level. I do not support the downsizing of the fellowship and nextgen by a blind cut with no metrics and debate to balance it out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If that is changed slightly like you did for the council to change that part, I will fully support.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Cheers,
>>>>>> Martin
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 21 Feb 2018 21:22, "Rafik Dammak" <rafik.dammak at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks Ayden for the revisions,
>>>>>>> I want to ask all PC members to review asap the draft for endorsment,  the deadline for submission is 2 weeks away and just before PR meeting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rafik
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2018-02-22 9:14 GMT+09:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have revised the proposed NCSG comment on the FY19 budget:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tBia4z5QQFGz9vFUQUkS0lbZNqU6C5n4pyUmlH3m8e8/edit?usp=sharing
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It has not received very many edits or comments just yet. I hope it is on the right track.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ayden
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
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From icann at ferdeline.com  Thu Mar  1 10:02:07 2018
From: icann at ferdeline.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ayden_F=C3=A9rdeline?=)
Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2018 03:02:07 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Fw: [council] Draft of Public Comments - ICANN's
 Draft FY19 Budget and Ops Plan
In-Reply-To: <CAH5sThmuUY-Y=rxUTA9A4Ja4JyU22ThqmOwzZnf=NbQVySOCTA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <S0cVrAOj09cnV2CMjO99FElrAZerXWf6FUtSsv-Zd5UMoPqm5IgGCgmme4nHgMfNpd6FspTr8nRfkVh0E4EHa1_bArBvcdVqh-0JH-tV7fg=@ferdeline.com>
 <E-H0YSAURJd3U1vbB6eDEkKoIuIonSfhLoithjlDIScnpEgIbTBDd42aVLI-1UhYMEWEbQTBzTRg3M16-wDJTXnx0kj0lQpgl-1fonPueYA=@ferdeline.com>
 <CAH5sThmuUY-Y=rxUTA9A4Ja4JyU22ThqmOwzZnf=NbQVySOCTA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <uzESnw6Rn2Uh1x3DOXmsgfZzeM2VZmSPovihZKxl6iIxC7l7zVVWbwrK4B78At_f6NhL56ER7TXzgcyfXJDmv2mAd7fZRDWo0TKXdVPuElo=@ferdeline.com>

I think this was always the fear; that the comment would be actively shaped by some voices, and then someone would come in a day before the (Council) deadline with substantive edits that are inconsistent with what the other 20+ members of the SCBO debated and agreed on over the space of five calls and 200+ emails. How we push back given whom has submitted these comments is challenging; I don't want the rest of the SCBO to feel like their concerns have not been heard, but ultimately, the SCBO has no delegated authority - the correspondence we sent can only go out (under the name of the GNSO Council) if there are no objections from a single member of the GNSO Council. So we seem kind of stuck. We did ask for feedback and we received it... some of the recent edits that have come in are not bad, it's just we discussed them already (with representatives from the same stakeholder group), and the prose we put forward was what everyone had found comfort with... anyway, it is what it is.

As for the bullet point on SubPro - there was a concern that an initial draft of our comment was too vague and did not say what policy support we actually need. However, we then had difficulties identifying precisely what support we would need, in part because we are not privy to the org's internal timelines and precise resource allocations for project IDs. We could not even find out how much the RDS PDP WG's legal advice last year cost, which we had hoped might guide us in ensuring there was a sufficient budget allocation this year for further advice. On the Council call last week members of the SubPro PDP WG mentioned concerns about the lack of resources in the budget for their needs. The Council Chair subsequently consulted with the SubPro leadership team to understand what resources they projected needing and came back with that language, and I think it is good.

Only in the past hour she has submitted a new suggestion to the mailing list which I think might address your concern? I am pasting below the Council Chair's suggested addition:

Second, the GNSO Council wishes to propose an improvement to ICANN org?s budget development process. The GNSO Council met in January to identify and prioritise its policy development and other activities in the coming year. We believe that the results of this exercise would prove an extremely effective tool to ICANN org in its development of the annual budget, in that it would provide the organization with clear, current status anticipated timelines and thus help the organization more accurately account for policy implementation in the annual budget. The GNSO Council considers a more robust information gathering approach by ICANN org to be an important and necessary maturation in its budgeting and fiscal prudence.

Ayden

??????? Original Message ???????
On 1 March 2018 6:28 AM, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Ayden,
>
> Thanks for this,
> I reviewed the comment (also last edits by Donna). I think it is getting shape well but still, we have to be cautious with regard to other groups comments since not all of them were that active in SCBO and may ask for last minute changes.
> I am thinking if we can suggest more about supporting PDP work and not just highlighting subpro , one suggestion was that consideration should be made for budgeting the PDPs and their upcoming implementation based on GNSO council planning. maybe adding more consultation from finance dept to the council on that matter. do you think that is possible at this stage?
> after the comments period, the council still has to engage at Puerto Rico meeting in the budget-related sessions and with finance team.
>
> thanks again for the work done there and steering the effort.
>
> Best,
>
> Rafik
>
> 2018-02-28 6:48 GMT+09:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I have sent this communication through to the Council on behalf of the Standing Committee on ICANN Budget and Operations. I am sharing this here on our list for two reasons; firstly, to make sure our Councilors are happy with it (it would be embarrassing for any concerns to be flagged on the Council list - please try to resolve them here or with me directly), and secondly, to see if there might be any elements that we would like to borrow and address in our (NCSG) comment on the Budget. Happy to hear your thoughts. Thank you.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Ayden
>>
>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>> On 27 February 2018 10:31 PM, Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> On behalf of the Standing Committee on ICANN Budget and Operations, please find attached the latest working draft of our comments on the FY19 Budget for your review.
>>>
>>> As mentioned on our Council call last Thursday, we are seeking to submit these comments on behalf of the Council on 8 March absent any objections from a member of the Council.
>>>
>>> Please can you review the attached file by close of business in your timezone this Friday, 2 March. We will then consider your comments on our call on Monday, 5 March and submit a revised version of this comment for your final review immediately after our call on Monday. Thank you very much.
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> Ayden F?rdeline
>>> [linkedin.com/in/ferdeline](http://www.linkedin.com/in/ferdeline)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
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From arsenebaguma at gmail.com  Thu Mar  1 10:24:50 2018
From: arsenebaguma at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ars=C3=A8ne_Tungali?=)
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2018 10:24:50 +0200
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Fw: [council] Draft of Public Comments - ICANN's
 Draft FY19 Budget and Ops Plan
In-Reply-To: <uzESnw6Rn2Uh1x3DOXmsgfZzeM2VZmSPovihZKxl6iIxC7l7zVVWbwrK4B78At_f6NhL56ER7TXzgcyfXJDmv2mAd7fZRDWo0TKXdVPuElo=@ferdeline.com>
References: <S0cVrAOj09cnV2CMjO99FElrAZerXWf6FUtSsv-Zd5UMoPqm5IgGCgmme4nHgMfNpd6FspTr8nRfkVh0E4EHa1_bArBvcdVqh-0JH-tV7fg=@ferdeline.com>
 <E-H0YSAURJd3U1vbB6eDEkKoIuIonSfhLoithjlDIScnpEgIbTBDd42aVLI-1UhYMEWEbQTBzTRg3M16-wDJTXnx0kj0lQpgl-1fonPueYA=@ferdeline.com>
 <CAH5sThmuUY-Y=rxUTA9A4Ja4JyU22ThqmOwzZnf=NbQVySOCTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <uzESnw6Rn2Uh1x3DOXmsgfZzeM2VZmSPovihZKxl6iIxC7l7zVVWbwrK4B78At_f6NhL56ER7TXzgcyfXJDmv2mAd7fZRDWo0TKXdVPuElo=@ferdeline.com>
Message-ID: <CABDXvWr3PDAfR-bC15dGpL+ovbKtLRArsAbdJ0tBTL9aANHpaA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I just had a quick read through the Council's comment and i think it looks
great. The SCBO did a good job in developping this. I don't have any
substantial comment but maybe just on the form.

When reading through and having read our own comment, i can feel the same
person was holding the pen on both comments and I would like to thank Ayden
for the work done there as well. I was wondering if there was a way to
remove some paragraphs which reads exactly the same  in both comments? I
believe this would be a way to keep both comments original. Someone outside
the GNSO reading them would feel like either one copied paragraphs from the
other group. There are some paragraphs that i would love to only remain in
our comment because i believe we should take ownership of them and not be
replicated in the council's comment because actually we were the first to
put them forward in our comment. I don't know whether this makes any sense.

I am not sure how this can be done now that the council draft is also out.
I don't want any paragraph to be removed from our comment because it is
ready to be submitted but if there are ways to remove those from the
council comment, that would be great.

Lastly and i know we have reached consensus on the paragraph on Fellowship
program (and should no longer argue on it) but after reading what Council
suggests, I would have loved for us to clear ours and keep the one on the
council comment as it is more elaborate and very clear than ours.

Thanks,
Arsene

------------------------
**Ars?ne Tungali* <http://about.me/ArseneTungali>*
Co-Founder & Executive Director, *Rudi international
<http://www.rudiinternational.org>*,
CEO,* Smart Services Sarl <http://www.smart-serv.info>*, *Mabingwa Forum
<http://www.mabingwa-forum.com>*
Tel: +243 993810967
GPG: 523644A0
*Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo*

2015 Mandela Washington Felllow
<http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html>
(YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF Brazil
<http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/igf-ambassadors-programme/Past-Ambassadors>
& Mexico
<http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/Current-Ambassadors>)
- AFRISIG 2016 <http://afrisig.org/afrisig-2016/class-of-2016/> - Blogger
<http://tungali.blogspot.com> - ICANN's GNSO Council
<https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm> Member. AFRINIC Fellow (
Mauritius
<http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/1907-afrinic-25-fellowship-winners>)*
- *IGFSA Member <http://www.igfsa.org/> - Internet Governance - Internet
Freedom.

Check the *2016 State of Internet Freedom in DRC* report (English
<http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=234>) and (French
<http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=242>)

2018-03-01 10:02 GMT+02:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>:

> I think this was always the fear; that the comment would be actively
> shaped by some voices, and then someone would come in a day before the
> (Council) deadline with substantive edits that are inconsistent with what
> the other 20+ members of the SCBO debated and agreed on over the space of
> five calls and 200+ emails. How we push back given whom has submitted these
> comments is challenging; I don't want the rest of the SCBO to feel like
> their concerns have not been heard, but ultimately, the SCBO has no
> delegated authority - the correspondence we sent can only go out (under the
> name of the GNSO Council) if there are no objections from a single member
> of the GNSO Council. So we seem kind of stuck. We did ask for feedback and
> we received it... some of the recent edits that have come in are not bad,
> it's just we discussed them already (with representatives from the same
> stakeholder group), and the prose we put forward was what everyone had
> found comfort with... anyway, it is what it is.
>
> As for the bullet point on SubPro - there was a concern that an initial
> draft of our comment was too vague and did not say what policy support we
> actually need. However, we then had difficulties identifying precisely what
> support we would need, in part because we are not privy to the org's
> internal timelines and precise resource allocations for project IDs. We
> could not even find out how much the RDS PDP WG's legal advice last year
> cost, which we had hoped might guide us in ensuring there was a sufficient
> budget allocation this year for further advice. On the Council call last
> week members of the SubPro PDP WG mentioned concerns about the lack of
> resources in the budget for their needs. The Council Chair subsequently
> consulted with the SubPro leadership team to understand what resources they
> projected needing and came back with that language, and I think it is good.
>
> Only in the past hour she has submitted a new suggestion to the mailing
> list which I think might address your concern? I am pasting below the
> Council Chair's suggested addition:
>
> *Second, the GNSO Council wishes to propose an improvement to ICANN org?s
> budget development process. The GNSO Council met in January to identify and
> prioritise its policy development and other activities in the coming year.
> We believe that the results of this exercise would prove an extremely
> effective tool to ICANN org in its development of the annual budget, in
> that it would provide the organization with clear, current status
> anticipated timelines and thus help the organization more accurately
> account for policy implementation in the annual budget. The GNSO Council
> considers a more robust information gathering approach by ICANN org to be
> an important and necessary maturation in its budgeting and fiscal prudence.*
>
> Ayden
>
>
> ??????? Original Message ???????
> On 1 March 2018 6:28 AM, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Ayden,
>
> Thanks for this,
> I reviewed the comment (also last edits by Donna). I think it is getting
> shape well but still, we have to be cautious with regard to other groups
> comments since not all of them were that active in SCBO and may ask for
> last minute changes.
> I am thinking if we can suggest more about supporting PDP work and not
> just highlighting subpro , one suggestion was that consideration should be
> made for budgeting the PDPs and their upcoming implementation based on GNSO
> council planning. maybe adding more consultation from finance dept to the
> council on that matter. do you think that is possible at this stage?
> after the comments period, the council still has to engage at Puerto Rico
> meeting in the budget-related sessions and with finance team.
>
> thanks again for the work done there and steering the effort.
>
> Best,
>
> Rafik
>
>
> 2018-02-28 6:48 GMT+09:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I have sent this communication through to the Council on behalf of the
>> Standing Committee on ICANN Budget and Operations. I am sharing this here
>> on our list for two reasons; firstly, to make sure our Councilors are happy
>> with it (it would be embarrassing for any concerns to be flagged on the
>> Council list - please try to resolve them here or with me directly), and
>> secondly, to see if there might be any elements that we would like to
>> borrow and address in our (NCSG) comment on the Budget. Happy to hear your
>> thoughts. Thank you.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Ayden
>>
>>
>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>> On 27 February 2018 10:31 PM, Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> On behalf of the Standing Committee on ICANN Budget and Operations,
>> please find attached the latest working draft of our comments on the FY19
>> Budget for your review.
>>
>> As mentioned on our Council call last Thursday, we are seeking to submit
>> these comments on behalf of the Council on 8 March absent any objections
>> from a member of the Council.
>>
>> Please can you review the attached file by close of business in your
>> timezone this Friday, 2 March. We will then consider your comments on our
>> call on Monday, 5 March and submit a revised version of this comment for
>> your final review immediately after our call on Monday. Thank you very much.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Ayden F?rdeline
>> linkedin.com/in/ferdeline <http://www.linkedin.com/in/ferdeline>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
>
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From rafik.dammak at gmail.com  Thu Mar  1 10:29:17 2018
From: rafik.dammak at gmail.com (Rafik Dammak)
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2018 17:29:17 +0900
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Fw: [council] Draft of Public Comments - ICANN's
 Draft FY19 Budget and Ops Plan
In-Reply-To: <uzESnw6Rn2Uh1x3DOXmsgfZzeM2VZmSPovihZKxl6iIxC7l7zVVWbwrK4B78At_f6NhL56ER7TXzgcyfXJDmv2mAd7fZRDWo0TKXdVPuElo=@ferdeline.com>
References: <S0cVrAOj09cnV2CMjO99FElrAZerXWf6FUtSsv-Zd5UMoPqm5IgGCgmme4nHgMfNpd6FspTr8nRfkVh0E4EHa1_bArBvcdVqh-0JH-tV7fg=@ferdeline.com>
 <E-H0YSAURJd3U1vbB6eDEkKoIuIonSfhLoithjlDIScnpEgIbTBDd42aVLI-1UhYMEWEbQTBzTRg3M16-wDJTXnx0kj0lQpgl-1fonPueYA=@ferdeline.com>
 <CAH5sThmuUY-Y=rxUTA9A4Ja4JyU22ThqmOwzZnf=NbQVySOCTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <uzESnw6Rn2Uh1x3DOXmsgfZzeM2VZmSPovihZKxl6iIxC7l7zVVWbwrK4B78At_f6NhL56ER7TXzgcyfXJDmv2mAd7fZRDWo0TKXdVPuElo=@ferdeline.com>
Message-ID: <CAH5sThn_PJEVfFwsEgF=Q_8o3Tfr3g-CJzoLcWXh40+D6SZ3Yw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ayden,


>
> Only in the past hour she has submitted a new suggestion to the mailing
> list which I think might address your concern? I am pasting below the
> Council Chair's suggested addition:
>
> *Second, the GNSO Council wishes to propose an improvement to ICANN org?s
> budget development process. The GNSO Council met in January to identify and
> prioritise its policy development and other activities in the coming year.
> We believe that the results of this exercise would prove an extremely
> effective tool to ICANN org in its development of the annual budget, in
> that it would provide the organization with clear, current status
> anticipated timelines and thus help the organization more accurately
> account for policy implementation in the annual budget. The GNSO Council
> considers a more robust information gathering approach by ICANN org to be
> an important and necessary maturation in its budgeting and fiscal prudence.*
>
>
I saw the suggestion from Heather and fine with that wording.

Best,

Rafik



>
>
>
> ??????? Original Message ???????
> On 1 March 2018 6:28 AM, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Ayden,
>
> Thanks for this,
> I reviewed the comment (also last edits by Donna). I think it is getting
> shape well but still, we have to be cautious with regard to other groups
> comments since not all of them were that active in SCBO and may ask for
> last minute changes.
> I am thinking if we can suggest more about supporting PDP work and not
> just highlighting subpro , one suggestion was that consideration should be
> made for budgeting the PDPs and their upcoming implementation based on GNSO
> council planning. maybe adding more consultation from finance dept to the
> council on that matter. do you think that is possible at this stage?
> after the comments period, the council still has to engage at Puerto Rico
> meeting in the budget-related sessions and with finance team.
>
> thanks again for the work done there and steering the effort.
>
> Best,
>
> Rafik
>
>
> 2018-02-28 6:48 GMT+09:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I have sent this communication through to the Council on behalf of the
>> Standing Committee on ICANN Budget and Operations. I am sharing this here
>> on our list for two reasons; firstly, to make sure our Councilors are happy
>> with it (it would be embarrassing for any concerns to be flagged on the
>> Council list - please try to resolve them here or with me directly), and
>> secondly, to see if there might be any elements that we would like to
>> borrow and address in our (NCSG) comment on the Budget. Happy to hear your
>> thoughts. Thank you.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Ayden
>>
>>
>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>> On 27 February 2018 10:31 PM, Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> On behalf of the Standing Committee on ICANN Budget and Operations,
>> please find attached the latest working draft of our comments on the FY19
>> Budget for your review.
>>
>> As mentioned on our Council call last Thursday, we are seeking to submit
>> these comments on behalf of the Council on 8 March absent any objections
>> from a member of the Council.
>>
>> Please can you review the attached file by close of business in your
>> timezone this Friday, 2 March. We will then consider your comments on our
>> call on Monday, 5 March and submit a revised version of this comment for
>> your final review immediately after our call on Monday. Thank you very much.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Ayden F?rdeline
>> linkedin.com/in/ferdeline <http://www.linkedin.com/in/ferdeline>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>
>>
>
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Thu Mar  1 23:01:11 2018
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2018 16:01:11 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-PC] For approval, Art 29WP letter
In-Reply-To: <CAH5sThmYu9WoO+PwXb67z3Bj9Gh-8kpkBbbXLADY4mehN-KMLw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2b6f5fe6-72c8-d162-ba88-5815f1e505dc@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <f54dce74-980f-243e-10a0-7e83ecf4a5fb@kathykleiman.com>
 <9943b747-7e3c-4996-3451-264c7de89306@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAH5sThmYu9WoO+PwXb67z3Bj9Gh-8kpkBbbXLADY4mehN-KMLw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <436a60ee-e440-cc2b-64eb-4a273084a803@mail.utoronto.ca>

I was thinking we need to update and re-consult because ICANN has 
released its draft.? I was going to send a new version tonight.? Perhaps 
I could just do that in markup and we could have a very quick turnaround....

cheers Steph

On 2018-03-01 01:10, Rafik Dammak wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Thanks, Stephanie again for this,
> if there is no strong objection in NCSG lists by Friday 2nd March 
> 11:59 UTC, we can interpret that we got consensus on sending the 
> letter. We are following here a "fast-track" approach due to the time 
> constraint imposed by the GDPR work. As the letter is signed by 
> Farzaneh in her quality of NCSG chair, she is tasked to send it. 
> for?convenience, can you share what are the mail addresses?to?send to?
> it is aligned with what we discussed regarding the interim model 
> comment: we made a first principled submission but now it is time to 
> work around what it seems the convergence model and influence it.? 
> Farzaneh shared the details about the webinar scheduled for tomorrow 
> and we will continue the discussion there about the next steps and 
> prepare?for Puerto Rico.
>
> Best,
>
> Rafik
>
> 2018-03-01 0:09 GMT+09:00 Stephanie Perrin 
> <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca 
> <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>>:
>
>     Attached is a cleaned up version which harmonizes our name with no
>     hyphens (not that I like it, but we have cards printed that way
>     so....)? I dated it for tomorrow assuming it will go out then....
>
>     I was remiss in not thanking Farzi for starting this draft off,
>     and providing all the background NCSG info, and to Ayden for
>     valuable comments and contributions.
>
>     Stephanie
>
>     On 2018-02-27 21:48, Kathy Kleiman wrote:
>>     I think this letter is brilliant. Tx you, Stephanie, for drafting
>>     such an amazing piece!
>>     Best, Kathy
>>
>>     On 2/27/2018 5:49 PM, Stephanie Perrin wrote:
>>>
>>>     Please find attached the draft Article 29 Working Party letter,
>>>     for approval.
>>>
>>>     cheers Stephanie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>     NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is  <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>     https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc  <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     NCSG-PC mailing list
>>     NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is  <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>     https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc  <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     NCSG-PC mailing list
>     NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>     https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>     <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>
>
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Fri Mar  2 02:38:49 2018
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2018 19:38:49 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-PC] draft slides for tomorrow's webinar
Message-ID: <ee80d669-da72-7d47-d6dd-4cdbe3d80bcf@mail.utoronto.ca>

first draft, tell me what you want....

cheers Steph

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From farzaneh.badii at gmail.com  Fri Mar  2 05:45:57 2018
From: farzaneh.badii at gmail.com (farzaneh badii)
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2018 22:45:57 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-PC] draft slides for tomorrow's webinar
In-Reply-To: <ee80d669-da72-7d47-d6dd-4cdbe3d80bcf@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <ee80d669-da72-7d47-d6dd-4cdbe3d80bcf@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <CAN1qJvCKr3bAP38M5etjOD2sx7cZsbN4A+Jj4Va_y0s_9xwKOw@mail.gmail.com>

I have made it a bit brief. here are the changes I made:

I removed page 3 (relevant privacy laws). Page five, I just added a brief
definition of WHOIS and deleted the rest of what you had. I am not sure
about keeping slide 7. It is long and very complicated. If you think you
can make a brief remark about the long struggle then good idea. But going
to thick whois and thin whois too much will be confusing.  I removed some
of the principles or made them shorter. Removed :
?Notice of data breach within 72 hours
?Right to be forgotten
But you are the expert so correct me if I am wrong.

Here:
?Tiered access means accreditation and authorization ?no
self-certification, we need standards and independent audit
In the newest ICANN  model there is no self certification but reliance on
GAC! We need to mention this.

In the following, Why are we jumping the queue about legitimate purpose?
"Cybercrime fighting is a legitimate reason to disclose but it needs to be
on an accredited basis, anonymized data analytics, etc."  Lets emphasize
we have to first agree on the purpose of WHOIS then we can get into
legitimate interest etc.

Also we should mention that we want data minimization (get rid of Thick
WHOIS as much as possible)

Thanks for doing this. we will have 45 minutes to go through your slides
and ask questions and then ICANN staff (Theresa and Akram) will be with us
and we can discuss the new ICANN model.


I also made your background less interesting. Sorry :)


Best

Farzaneh






Farzaneh

On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 7:38 PM, Stephanie Perrin <
stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:

> first draft, tell me what you want....
>
> cheers Steph
>
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Fri Mar  2 15:07:48 2018
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2018 08:07:48 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-PC] draft slides for tomorrow's webinar
In-Reply-To: <CAN1qJvCKr3bAP38M5etjOD2sx7cZsbN4A+Jj4Va_y0s_9xwKOw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ee80d669-da72-7d47-d6dd-4cdbe3d80bcf@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAN1qJvCKr3bAP38M5etjOD2sx7cZsbN4A+Jj4Va_y0s_9xwKOw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <93ec519f-1d5c-7381-653c-9cf46804d6b2@mail.utoronto.ca>

Looks fine.? Sponsors are the accredited registrars, so will make "or" 
an "and" on that slide

SP

On 2018-03-01 22:45, farzaneh badii wrote:
> I have made it a bit brief. here are the changes I made:
>
> I removed page 3 (relevant privacy laws). Page five, I just added a 
> brief definition of WHOIS and deleted the rest of what you had. I am 
> not sure about keeping slide 7. It is long and very complicated. If 
> you think you can make a brief remark about the long struggle then 
> good idea. But going to thick whois and thin whois too much will be 
> confusing.? I removed some of the principles or made them shorter. 
> Removed :
> ?Notice of data breach within 72 hours
> ?Right to be forgotten
> But you are the expert so correct me if I am wrong.
>
> Here:
> ?Tiered access means accreditation and authorization ?no 
> self-certification, we need standards and independent audit
> In the newest ICANN model there is no self certification?but reliance 
> on GAC! We need to mention this.
>
> In the following, Why are we jumping the queue about legitimate 
> purpose? "Cybercrime fighting is a legitimate reason to disclose but 
> it needs to be on an accredited basis, anonymized data analytics, 
> etc."? Lets emphasize we?have to first agree on the purpose of WHOIS 
> then we can get into legitimate interest etc.
>
> Also we should mention that we want data minimization (get rid of 
> Thick WHOIS as much as possible)
>
> Thanks for doing this. we will have 45 minutes to go through your 
> slides and ask questions and then ICANN staff (Theresa and Akram) will 
> be with us and we?can discuss the new ICANN model.
>
>
> I also made your?background less interesting. Sorry :)
>
>
> Best
>
> Farzaneh
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Farzaneh
>
> On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 7:38 PM, Stephanie Perrin 
> <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca 
> <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>
>     first draft, tell me what you want....
>
>     cheers Steph
>
>
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From farzaneh.badii at gmail.com  Fri Mar  2 15:09:11 2018
From: farzaneh.badii at gmail.com (farzaneh badii)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2018 08:09:11 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-PC] draft slides for tomorrow's webinar
In-Reply-To: <93ec519f-1d5c-7381-653c-9cf46804d6b2@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <ee80d669-da72-7d47-d6dd-4cdbe3d80bcf@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAN1qJvCKr3bAP38M5etjOD2sx7cZsbN4A+Jj4Va_y0s_9xwKOw@mail.gmail.com>
 <93ec519f-1d5c-7381-653c-9cf46804d6b2@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <CAN1qJvDT18t_+DTSuv4BXg-mFyAfhmmrc1DzrN9w6K2ZsF6T8A@mail.gmail.com>

ok let me know we need to send it to ICANN staff before the meeting.

Farzaneh

On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 8:07 AM, Stephanie Perrin <
stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:

> Looks fine.  Sponsors are the accredited registrars, so will make "or" an
> "and" on that slide
>
> SP
> On 2018-03-01 22:45, farzaneh badii wrote:
>
> I have made it a bit brief. here are the changes I made:
>
> I removed page 3 (relevant privacy laws). Page five, I just added a brief
> definition of WHOIS and deleted the rest of what you had. I am not sure
> about keeping slide 7. It is long and very complicated. If you think you
> can make a brief remark about the long struggle then good idea. But going
> to thick whois and thin whois too much will be confusing.  I removed some
> of the principles or made them shorter. Removed :
> ?Notice of data breach within 72 hours
> ?Right to be forgotten
> But you are the expert so correct me if I am wrong.
>
> Here:
> ?Tiered access means accreditation and authorization ?no
> self-certification, we need standards and independent audit
> In the newest ICANN  model there is no self certification but reliance on
> GAC! We need to mention this.
>
> In the following, Why are we jumping the queue about legitimate purpose?
> "Cybercrime fighting is a legitimate reason to disclose but it needs to be
> on an accredited basis, anonymized data analytics, etc."  Lets emphasize
> we have to first agree on the purpose of WHOIS then we can get into
> legitimate interest etc.
>
> Also we should mention that we want data minimization (get rid of Thick
> WHOIS as much as possible)
>
> Thanks for doing this. we will have 45 minutes to go through your slides
> and ask questions and then ICANN staff (Theresa and Akram) will be with us
> and we can discuss the new ICANN model.
>
>
> I also made your background less interesting. Sorry :)
>
>
> Best
>
> Farzaneh
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Farzaneh
>
> On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 7:38 PM, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.
> utoronto.ca> wrote:
>
>> first draft, tell me what you want....
>>
>> cheers Steph
>>
>
>
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Fri Mar  2 15:13:04 2018
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2018 08:13:04 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-PC] draft slides for tomorrow's webinar
In-Reply-To: <CAN1qJvDT18t_+DTSuv4BXg-mFyAfhmmrc1DzrN9w6K2ZsF6T8A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ee80d669-da72-7d47-d6dd-4cdbe3d80bcf@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAN1qJvCKr3bAP38M5etjOD2sx7cZsbN4A+Jj4Va_y0s_9xwKOw@mail.gmail.com>
 <93ec519f-1d5c-7381-653c-9cf46804d6b2@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAN1qJvDT18t_+DTSuv4BXg-mFyAfhmmrc1DzrN9w6K2ZsF6T8A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ebf75b94-0c05-d65b-f706-2e6cc9467e99@mail.utoronto.ca>

new version attached

On 2018-03-02 08:09, farzaneh badii wrote:
> ok let me know we need to send it to ICANN staff before the meeting.
>
> Farzaneh
>
> On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 8:07 AM, Stephanie Perrin 
> <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca 
> <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>
>     Looks fine. Sponsors are the accredited registrars, so will make
>     "or" an "and" on that slide
>
>     SP
>
>     On 2018-03-01 22:45, farzaneh badii wrote:
>>     I have made it a bit brief. here are the changes I made:
>>
>>     I removed page 3 (relevant privacy laws). Page five, I just added
>>     a brief definition of WHOIS and deleted the rest of what you had.
>>     I am not sure about keeping slide 7. It is long and very
>>     complicated. If you think you can make a brief remark about the
>>     long struggle then good idea. But going to thick whois and thin
>>     whois too much will be confusing.? I removed some of the
>>     principles or made them shorter. Removed :
>>     ?Notice of data breach within 72 hours
>>     ?Right to be forgotten
>>     But you are the expert so correct me if I am wrong.
>>
>>     Here:
>>     ?Tiered access means accreditation and authorization ?no
>>     self-certification, we need standards and independent audit
>>     In the newest ICANN? model there is no self certification?but
>>     reliance on GAC! We need to mention this.
>>
>>     In the following, Why are we jumping the queue about legitimate
>>     purpose?? "Cybercrime fighting is a legitimate reason to disclose
>>     but it needs to be on an accredited basis, anonymized data
>>     analytics, etc."? Lets emphasize we?have to first agree on the
>>     purpose of WHOIS then we can get into legitimate interest etc.
>>
>>     Also we should mention that we want data minimization (get rid of
>>     Thick WHOIS as much as possible)
>>
>>     Thanks for doing this. we will have 45 minutes to go through your
>>     slides and ask questions and then ICANN staff (Theresa and Akram)
>>     will be with us and we?can discuss the new ICANN model.
>>
>>
>>     I also made your?background less interesting. Sorry :)
>>
>>
>>     Best
>>
>>     Farzaneh
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     Farzaneh
>>
>>     On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 7:38 PM, Stephanie Perrin
>>     <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
>>     <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>>
>>         first draft, tell me what you want....
>>
>>         cheers Steph
>>
>>
>
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Fri Mar  2 15:21:35 2018
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2018 08:21:35 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-PC] draft slides for tomorrow's webinar
In-Reply-To: <CAN1qJvDT18t_+DTSuv4BXg-mFyAfhmmrc1DzrN9w6K2ZsF6T8A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ee80d669-da72-7d47-d6dd-4cdbe3d80bcf@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAN1qJvCKr3bAP38M5etjOD2sx7cZsbN4A+Jj4Va_y0s_9xwKOw@mail.gmail.com>
 <93ec519f-1d5c-7381-653c-9cf46804d6b2@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAN1qJvDT18t_+DTSuv4BXg-mFyAfhmmrc1DzrN9w6K2ZsF6T8A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9c686ea9-a398-b63c-9cb9-a15296d5cade@mail.utoronto.ca>

I did not comment on all the below, see inline

On 2018-03-02 08:09, farzaneh badii wrote:
> ok let me know we need to send it to ICANN staff before the meeting.
>
> Farzaneh
>
> On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 8:07 AM, Stephanie Perrin 
> <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca 
> <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>
>     Looks fine. Sponsors are the accredited registrars, so will make
>     "or" an "and" on that slide
>
>     SP
>
>     On 2018-03-01 22:45, farzaneh badii wrote:
>>     I have made it a bit brief. here are the changes I made:
>>
>>     I removed page 3 (relevant privacy laws). *(I think people need
>>     to understand the landscape is bigger than GDPR) *
>
>>     Page five, I just added a brief definition of WHOIS and deleted
>>     the rest of what you had.
>
>>     I am not sure about keeping slide 7. It is long and very
>>     complicated.
>
I will not go through it, just want them to realize this is not new and 
we have been fighting this fight a very long time.? SOme need to know 
history so as not to reinvent our position on this.....
>
>>     If you think you can make a brief remark about the long struggle
>>     then good idea. But going to thick whois and thin whois too much
>>     will be confusing.? I removed some of the principles or made them
>>     shorter. Removed :
>>     ?Notice of data breach within 72 hours
>>     ?Right to be forgotten
>
These are important.? I will mention but no time to put everything back in.

>>     But you are the expert so correct me if I am wrong.
>>
>>     Here:
>>     ?Tiered access means accreditation and authorization ?no
>>     self-certification, we need standards and independent audit
>>     In the newest ICANN? model there is no self certification?but
>>     reliance on GAC! We need to mention this.
>
Actually the GAC model will turn out to be self certification. Lawyers 
check, cybercrime orgs check.? LEAs Check of course...and this is the 
only group they ought to be certifying, and that will turn out to be 
self cert as well.? There is no independent process, that is why the 
Canadian govt (and even APWG) are starting to get interested in the 
standards proposal
>
>>
>>     In the following, Why are we jumping the queue about legitimate
>>     purpose?? "Cybercrime fighting is a legitimate reason to disclose
>>     but it needs to be on an accredited basis, anonymized data
>>     analytics, etc."? Lets emphasize we?have to first agree on the
>>     purpose of WHOIS then we can get into legitimate interest etc.
>
I want to explain the battle that has been going on about legit purpose 
for access vs for overall processing.? Long hard battle in RDS group and 
they still dont get it.....
>
>>
>>     Also we should mention that we want data minimization (get rid of
>>     Thick WHOIS as much as possible)
>
then leave thick WHOIS in the other slide, that is why it is in 
there....but dont worry I will deal with it in a minute or two.? We need 
to question what is behind current endorsement of thick whois model? 
(transfer of all data to Verisign e.g.??)
>
>>
>>     Thanks for doing this. we will have 45 minutes to go through your
>>     slides and ask questions and then ICANN staff (Theresa and Akram)
>>     will be with us and we?can discuss the new ICANN model.
>>
>>
>>     I also made your?background less interesting. Sorry :)
>
I love that background but I guess yours is ok.? I like the ink blots to 
symbolize all the screwups....
>
>>
>>
>>     Best
>>
>>     Farzaneh
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     Farzaneh
>>
>>     On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 7:38 PM, Stephanie Perrin
>>     <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
>>     <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>>
>>         first draft, tell me what you want....
>>
>>         cheers Steph
>>
>>
>
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From farell at benin2point0.org  Fri Mar  2 19:48:44 2018
From: farell at benin2point0.org (Farell FOLLY)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2018 18:48:44 +0100
Subject: [NCSG-PC] draft slides for tomorrow's webinar
In-Reply-To: <9c686ea9-a398-b63c-9cb9-a15296d5cade@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <ee80d669-da72-7d47-d6dd-4cdbe3d80bcf@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAN1qJvCKr3bAP38M5etjOD2sx7cZsbN4A+Jj4Va_y0s_9xwKOw@mail.gmail.com>
 <93ec519f-1d5c-7381-653c-9cf46804d6b2@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAN1qJvDT18t_+DTSuv4BXg-mFyAfhmmrc1DzrN9w6K2ZsF6T8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <9c686ea9-a398-b63c-9cb9-a15296d5cade@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <E9AB9C94-ED1C-4F17-90AF-69D8C6DF6BE2@benin2point0.org>

Good job Stephanie and all,

I was finally not able to join today. I went through the materials and read the comments, great. I am sure the meeting was also super.


@__f_f__

Best Regards
____________________________________

Ekue (Farell) FOLLY
Technology Champion & Chapter Head
Africa 2.0 Foundation.
farell at benin2point0.org 
www.africa2point0.org
linkedin.com/in/farellf
twitter.com/@__f_f__






> On 2 Mar 2018, at 14:21, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA> wrote:
> 
> I did not comment on all the below, see inline
> On 2018-03-02 08:09, farzaneh badii wrote:
>> ok let me know we need to send it to ICANN staff before the meeting.
>> 
>> Farzaneh
>> 
>> On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 8:07 AM, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>> Looks fine.  Sponsors are the accredited registrars, so will make "or" an "and" on that slide
>> 
>> SP
>> On 2018-03-01 22:45, farzaneh badii wrote:
>>> I have made it a bit brief. here are the changes I made:
>>> 
>>> I removed page 3 (relevant privacy laws). (I think people need to understand the landscape is bigger than GDPR)
>>> Page five, I just added a brief definition of WHOIS and deleted the rest of what you had.
>>> I am not sure about keeping slide 7. It is long and very complicated.
> I will not go through it, just want them to realize this is not new and we have been fighting this fight a very long time.  SOme need to know history so as not to reinvent our position on this.....
>>> If you think you can make a brief remark about the long struggle then good idea. But going to thick whois and thin whois too much will be confusing.  I removed some of the principles or made them shorter. Removed : 
>>> ?Notice of data breach within 72 hours
>>> ?Right to be forgotten
> These are important.  I will mention but no time to put everything back in.
> 
>>> But you are the expert so correct me if I am wrong.
>>> 
>>> Here: 
>>> ?Tiered access means accreditation and authorization ?no self-certification, we need standards and independent audit
>>> In the newest ICANN  model there is no self certification but reliance on GAC! We need to mention this.
> Actually the GAC model will turn out to be self certification.  Lawyers check, cybercrime orgs check.  LEAs Check of course...and this is the only group they ought to be certifying, and that will turn out to be self cert as well.  There is no independent process, that is why the Canadian govt (and even APWG) are starting to get interested in the standards proposal
>>> 
>>> In the following, Why are we jumping the queue about legitimate purpose?  "Cybercrime fighting is a legitimate reason to disclose but it needs to be on an accredited basis, anonymized data analytics, etc."  Lets emphasize we have to first agree on the purpose of WHOIS then we can get into legitimate interest etc. 
> I want to explain the battle that has been going on about legit purpose for access vs for overall processing.  Long hard battle in RDS group and they still dont get it.....
>>> 
>>> Also we should mention that we want data minimization (get rid of Thick WHOIS as much as possible) 
> then leave thick WHOIS in the other slide, that is why it is in there....but dont worry I will deal with it in a minute or two.  We need to question what is behind current endorsement of thick whois model  (transfer of all data to Verisign e.g.??)
>>> 
>>> Thanks for doing this. we will have 45 minutes to go through your slides and ask questions and then ICANN staff (Theresa and Akram) will be with us and we can discuss the new ICANN model. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I also made your background less interesting. Sorry :)
> I love that background but I guess yours is ok.  I like the ink blots to symbolize all the screwups....
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best 
>>> 
>>> Farzaneh 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Farzaneh
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 7:38 PM, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>>> first draft, tell me what you want....
>>> 
>>> cheers Steph
>>> 
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc

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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Fri Mar  2 20:30:16 2018
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2018 13:30:16 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-PC] draft slides for tomorrow's webinar
In-Reply-To: <E9AB9C94-ED1C-4F17-90AF-69D8C6DF6BE2@benin2point0.org>
References: <ee80d669-da72-7d47-d6dd-4cdbe3d80bcf@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAN1qJvCKr3bAP38M5etjOD2sx7cZsbN4A+Jj4Va_y0s_9xwKOw@mail.gmail.com>
 <93ec519f-1d5c-7381-653c-9cf46804d6b2@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAN1qJvDT18t_+DTSuv4BXg-mFyAfhmmrc1DzrN9w6K2ZsF6T8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <9c686ea9-a398-b63c-9cb9-a15296d5cade@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <E9AB9C94-ED1C-4F17-90AF-69D8C6DF6BE2@benin2point0.org>
Message-ID: <d1e3538c-229f-3cd2-cbc7-c18d3f3bc0fc@mail.utoronto.ca>

Thanks Farell, I think there was a recording if you are interested.? We 
had a good crowd, thank goodness, as news of the senior ICANN team 
attendance was even later than the announcement of the webinar.

Kind regards,

Stephanie

On 2018-03-02 12:48, Farell FOLLY wrote:
> Good job Stephanie and all,
>
> I was finally not able to join today. I went through the materials and 
> read the comments, great. I am sure the meeting was also super.
>
>
> @__f_f__
>
> Best Regards
> ____________________________________
>
> Ekue (Farell) FOLLY
> Technology Champion & Chapter Head
> Africa 2.0 Foundation.
> farell at benin2point0.org <mailto:farell at benin2point0.org>
> www.africa2point0.org <http://www.africa2point0.org>
> linkedin.com/in/farellf <http://linkedin.com/in/farellf>
> twitter.com/@__f_f__
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> On 2 Mar 2018, at 14:21, Stephanie Perrin 
>> <stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA 
>> <mailto:stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA>> wrote:
>>
>> I did not comment on all the below, see inline
>>
>> On 2018-03-02 08:09, farzaneh badii wrote:
>>> ok let me know we need to send it to ICANN staff before the meeting.
>>>
>>> Farzaneh
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 8:07 AM, Stephanie Perrin 
>>> <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca 
>>> <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Looks fine.? Sponsors are the accredited registrars, so will
>>>     make "or" an "and" on that slide
>>>
>>>     SP
>>>
>>>     On 2018-03-01 22:45, farzaneh badii wrote:
>>>>     I have made it a bit brief. here are the changes I made:
>>>>
>>>>     I removed page 3 (relevant privacy laws). *(I think people need
>>>>     to understand the landscape is bigger than GDPR) *
>>>
>>>>     Page five, I just added a brief definition of WHOIS and deleted
>>>>     the rest of what you had.
>>>
>>>>     I am not sure about keeping slide 7. It is long and very
>>>>     complicated.
>>>
>> I will not go through it, just want them to realize this is not new 
>> and we have been fighting this fight a very long time.? SOme need to 
>> know history so as not to reinvent our position on this.....
>>>
>>>>     If you think you can make a brief remark about the long
>>>>     struggle then good idea. But going to thick whois and thin
>>>>     whois too much will be confusing.? I removed some of the
>>>>     principles or made them shorter. Removed :
>>>>     ?Notice of data breach within 72 hours
>>>>     ?Right to be forgotten
>>>
>> These are important.? I will mention but no time to put everything 
>> back in.
>>
>>>>     But you are the expert so correct me if I am wrong.
>>>>
>>>>     Here:
>>>>     ?Tiered access means accreditation and authorization ?no
>>>>     self-certification, we need standards and independent audit
>>>>     In the newest ICANN? model there is no self certification?but
>>>>     reliance on GAC! We need to mention this.
>>>
>> Actually the GAC model will turn out to be self certification.? 
>> Lawyers check, cybercrime orgs check. LEAs Check of course...and this 
>> is the only group they ought to be certifying, and that will turn out 
>> to be self cert as well.? There is no independent process, that is 
>> why the Canadian govt (and even APWG) are starting to get interested 
>> in the standards proposal
>>>
>>>>
>>>>     In the following, Why are we jumping the queue about legitimate
>>>>     purpose? "Cybercrime fighting is a legitimate reason to
>>>>     disclose but it needs to be on an accredited basis, anonymized
>>>>     data analytics, etc." Lets emphasize we?have to first agree on
>>>>     the purpose of WHOIS then we can get into legitimate interest etc.
>>>
>> I want to explain the battle that has been going on about legit 
>> purpose for access vs for overall processing.? Long hard battle in 
>> RDS group and they still dont get it.....
>>>
>>>>
>>>>     Also we should mention that we want data minimization (get rid
>>>>     of Thick WHOIS as much as possible)
>>>
>> then leave thick WHOIS in the other slide, that is why it is in 
>> there....but dont worry I will deal with it in a minute or two.? We 
>> need to question what is behind current endorsement of thick whois 
>> model? (transfer of all data to Verisign e.g.??)
>>>
>>>>
>>>>     Thanks for doing this. we will have 45 minutes to go through
>>>>     your slides and ask questions and then ICANN staff (Theresa and
>>>>     Akram) will be with us and we?can discuss the new ICANN model.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     I also made your?background less interesting. Sorry :)
>>>
>> I love that background but I guess yours is ok.? I like the ink blots 
>> to symbolize all the screwups....
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     Best
>>>>
>>>>     Farzaneh
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     Farzaneh
>>>>
>>>>     On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 7:38 PM, Stephanie Perrin
>>>>     <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
>>>>     <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         first draft, tell me what you want....
>>>>
>>>>         cheers Steph
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
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From jumaropi at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  2 21:17:58 2018
From: jumaropi at yahoo.com (Juan Manuel Rojas)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2018 19:17:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Travelers for Panama
In-Reply-To: <5282cb43-d786-f8aa-5c57-c79ba32c7ef9@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <CAN1qJvBW9zb1FHkwRF-f0ARV=dj6Gj4ywhQmMBkwQWFBo1E3cg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5282cb43-d786-f8aa-5c57-c79ba32c7ef9@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <1139613143.8688984.1520018278604@mail.yahoo.com>

Hi FarziI will too.?


JUAN MANUEL ROJAS P.
Presidente?-?AGEIA DENSI?ColombiaCommunications Committee Chair.?Non-for-Profit Operational Concerns Constituency (NPOC) - ICANNCluster Orinoco TIC memberMaster IT candidate, Universidad de los Andes
Cel. +57 3017435600
Twitter:?@JmanuRojas





? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 

    El mi?rcoles, 28 de febrero de 2018 4:12:25 p. m. GMT-5, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> escribi?:  
 
  
i will, I think
 
Stephanie
 
 On 2018-02-28 15:19, farzaneh badii wrote:
  
 
 Hi everyone, 
  Who is going to Panama for ICANN 62? We have until 26 March to respond but they asked if we could give the names of confirmed ones already. I am probably not going and will give up my slot (we will do a call for candidate for that). 
  
  If you have your?plans cleared already for Panama, let me know so that? I submit your name.? 
  
     Farzaneh      
  _______________________________________________
NCSG-PC mailing list
NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
 _______________________________________________
NCSG-PC mailing list
NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
  
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From farzaneh.badii at gmail.com  Fri Mar  2 21:29:32 2018
From: farzaneh.badii at gmail.com (farzaneh badii)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2018 14:29:32 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Travelers for Panama
In-Reply-To: <1139613143.8688984.1520018278604@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CAN1qJvBW9zb1FHkwRF-f0ARV=dj6Gj4ywhQmMBkwQWFBo1E3cg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5282cb43-d786-f8aa-5c57-c79ba32c7ef9@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <1139613143.8688984.1520018278604@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1qJvA5L_t8a0fOqQv5ESC=+W93VqfA5yBe4p9bghSksn0=KA@mail.gmail.com>

I am so sorry. Don't let my mistake misleads you and do not respond to my
email. As Ayden pointed out I am not in charge of Councilors travel and
it's GNSO Sec which is responsible for it, so you will receive an email
from them. please discard my email.

Thanks much

Farzaneh

On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 2:17 PM, Juan Manuel Rojas via NCSG-PC <
ncsg-pc at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:

> Hi Farzi
> I will too.
>
>
> JUAN MANUEL ROJAS P.
> Presidente - AGEIA DENSI Colombia
> Communications Committee Chair. Non-for-Profit Operational Concerns
> Constituency (NPOC) - ICANN
> Cluster Orinoco TIC member
> Master IT candidate, Universidad de los Andes
>
> Cel. +57 3017435600 <+57%20301%207435600>
> Twitter: @JmanuRojas <http://www.twitter.com/jmanurojas>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> El mi?rcoles, 28 de febrero de 2018 4:12:25 p. m. GMT-5, Stephanie Perrin <
> stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> escribi?:
>
>
> i will, I think
>
> Stephanie
> On 2018-02-28 15:19, farzaneh badii wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Who is going to Panama for ICANN 62? We have until 26 March to respond but
> they asked if we could give the names of confirmed ones already. I am
> probably not going and will give up my slot (we will do a call for
> candidate for that).
>
>
> If you have your plans cleared already for Panama, let me know so that  I
> submit your name.
>
>
> Farzaneh
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing listNCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.ishttps://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
>
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From t.tropina at mpicc.de  Fri Mar  2 22:21:48 2018
From: t.tropina at mpicc.de (Dr. Tatiana Tropina)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2018 21:21:48 +0100
Subject: [NCSG-PC] [new draft] NCSG Budget Comment
In-Reply-To: <CAH5sThm9Sax1AZx68gUUCUNt=bENXw+_3qOiJNEjvVvcK0wSyQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fszTbi7KngfWh_ihhjgri94y0Uc7Oc7pD_WcXW_PrpODCNOPHeGJMP6RC_cfAp9BUOAfuD5xeH1cFwokeX9pjp_b6alZlN7TOHv3N6BEYe4=@ferdeline.com>
 <CAH5sTh=mwdVbha1yLP2XujWFFt+X9VpPJODuP2mzJk-o8jM23w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJjnsDGw++awsh-NjKOAdR+d2xDvQu1Y7-j7R_maeZMiF3pNJw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABDXvWrLVBZcqwKC+pYoL9PhcK1aVqUDE8H-VmwvvkRyCHGgOQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <zw_4rZDtawvwnzx_KkoiqN6AQXqPcn9_OZrK-6Oa1mqalY8REoFuUyko5jUoWLgC7EBkjfLyHDN5RBsXKlH_99YVUD-YyEd7-6uXU2LbTu4=@ferdeline.com>
 <CABDXvWpUQNT4upbdySp-es6dhTcOvBndEitxn7AF3+d3qh0esQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <-LWvq1ayuCH7QYrxmLEHxXonVRpDBhSw_ewTiauHogk7pPnyLCNEsFn0Bkwzzdr17c_4RsXH3HT6nQcFpguunqegSWd2xP8y-QnhlsW3ZaM=@ferdeline.com>
 <CAH5sThm9Sax1AZx68gUUCUNt=bENXw+_3qOiJNEjvVvcK0wSyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cb90b9c0-017f-82f8-f97c-6360ad9d8caa@mpicc.de>

All, am fine with the comment - you have my approval for submission and
BIG BIG thanks to Ayden for holding the pen and his tireless work on
this. Thank you so much, Ayden.

Cheers,

Tanya


On 01/03/18 06:59, Rafik Dammak wrote:
> Hi,
>
> reading and comparing the related paragraphs in council and NCSG
> comments, ours seems simpler and the main part is basically about the
> assessment and evaluation of the programs as discussed before. I won't
> go into semantics but I believe we are taking the simple position of
> evaluation of the programs for now before making any decision.
>
> the comment is in good shape too for submission and not critical
> comments pending there. @Ayden can you give another look for clean-up
>
> Asking all PC members to review, help for proof-reading in next day so
> we can submit before the public comment deadline.
>
> Best,
>
> Rafik
>
>
>
> 2018-02-26 19:12 GMT+09:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com
> <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>>:
>
>     Thanks Arsene, I think we are expressing the same sentiment albeit
>     diplomatically, however I will allow Rafik as PC Chair to mediate
>     and resolve this one.
>
>     Best wishes, Ayden??
>
>
>     ??????? Original Message ???????
>     On 26 February 2018 11:10 AM, Ars?ne Tungali
>     <arsenebaguma at gmail.com <mailto:arsenebaguma at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>>     May I suggest something like: "We do not support the current
>>     suggested harsh cut on these programs but we request an
>>     assessment before any such decision can be taken". This is what i
>>     would like to see there. I am not that good in English so would
>>     suggest a rephrasing so it means this for me. If what is written
>>     there is the same as what i am sugesting, then fine with me. The
>>     current language on that one sentence is confusing for me.
>>     And i will leave this here for you guys to decide as a group.
>>
>>     Thank you,
>>     Arsene
>>
>>     ------------------------
>>     **Ars?ne Tungali* <http://about.me/ArseneTungali>*
>>     Co-Founder & Executive Director, /Rudi international
>>     <http://www.rudiinternational.org>/,
>>     CEO,/Smart Services Sarl <http://www.smart-serv.info>/, /Mabingwa
>>     Forum <http://www.mabingwa-forum.com>/
>>     Tel: +243 993810967 <tel:+243%20993%20810%20967>
>>     GPG: 523644A0
>>     _Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo_/
>>     /
>>     2015 Mandela Washington Felllow
>>     <http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html>
>>     (YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF Brazil
>>     <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/igf-ambassadors-programme/Past-Ambassadors>
>>     & Mexico
>>     <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/Current-Ambassadors>)
>>     - AFRISIG 2016 <http://afrisig.org/afrisig-2016/class-of-2016/> -
>>     Blogger <http://tungali.blogspot.com> - ICANN's GNSO Council
>>     <https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm>
>>     Member.//AFRINIC Fellow//(Mauritius
>>     <http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/1907-afrinic-25-fellowship-winners>)/-
>>     /IGFSA Member <http://www.igfsa.org/> - Internet Governance -
>>     Internet Freedom.//
>>
>>     Check the /2016 State of Internet Freedom in DRC/ report (English
>>     <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=234>) and (French
>>     <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=242>)
>>
>>     2018-02-26 12:04 GMT+02:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com
>>     <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>>:
>>
>>         I feel like I'm responding to a carbon copy of Martin's
>>         comment - so my answer remains the same! :-) The dictionary
>>         definition of 'rightsizing' is to "convert (something) to an
>>         appropriate or optimum size." That's what we are saying, and
>>         I think it is apparent if read in the context of the entire
>>         paragraph and not that one sentence which has been extracted.
>>
>>         Thanks,
>>
>>         Ayden??
>>
>>         ??????? Original Message ???????
>>         On 26 February 2018 10:19 AM, Ars?ne Tungali
>>         <arsenebaguma at gmail.com <mailto:arsenebaguma at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>>         I believe this is the section that is problematic in my view
>>>         and needs to be rephrased: "/We support the rightsizing of
>>>         the fellowship and NextGen programmes/." It means for me
>>>         that we support the fact that those programs are cut the way
>>>         it is suggested in the budget. I don't think we have
>>>         consensus on this and we should not support, as a SG, the
>>>         way these programs have been reduced in number (by half or
>>>         so). I may be wrong though :)
>>>
>>>         I think what we encourage, and what we have agreement on, is
>>>         the need for an assessment on the effectiveneess of the
>>>         program and only after that assessment, we can agree on the
>>>         right action to take on it. This can lead to a cut in number
>>>         of attendees or anything else but we cannot say that at this
>>>         moment, before that professional assessment is done. And I
>>>         believe that's what we pushed for at Council level.
>>>         Other than that, i fully support the submission of this
>>>         comment and would like to thank Ayden and everyone for their
>>>         participation. After reading the comment, it captures
>>>         everything we discussed and captures what we stand for. As i
>>>         always say, this is a good informational piece as well for us.
>>>
>>>         ------------------------
>>>         **Ars?ne Tungali* <http://about.me/ArseneTungali>*
>>>         Co-Founder & Executive Director, /Rudi international
>>>         <http://www.rudiinternational.org>/,
>>>         CEO,/Smart Services Sarl <http://www.smart-serv.info>/,
>>>         /Mabingwa Forum <http://www.mabingwa-forum.com>/
>>>         Tel: +243 993810967 <tel:+243%20993%20810%20967>
>>>         GPG: 523644A0
>>>         _Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo_
>>>         2015 Mandela Washington Felllow
>>>         <http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html>
>>>         (YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF Brazil
>>>         <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/igf-ambassadors-programme/Past-Ambassadors>
>>>         & Mexico
>>>         <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/Current-Ambassadors>)
>>>         - AFRISIG 2016
>>>         <http://afrisig.org/afrisig-2016/class-of-2016/> - Blogger
>>>         <http://tungali.blogspot.com> - ICANN's GNSO Council
>>>         <https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm>
>>>         Member.//AFRINIC Fellow//(Mauritius
>>>         <http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/1907-afrinic-25-fellowship-winners>)/-
>>>         /IGFSA Member <http://www.igfsa.org/> - Internet Governance
>>>         - Internet Freedom.//
>>>
>>>         Check the /2016 State of Internet Freedom in DRC/ report
>>>         (English <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=234>) and (French
>>>         <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=242>)
>>>
>>>         2018-02-22 6:42 GMT+02:00 Martin Pablo Silva Valent
>>>         <mpsilvavalent at gmail.com <mailto:mpsilvavalent at gmail.com>>:
>>>
>>>             Hi all,?
>>>
>>>             Is all good for me, except for the same part I opposed
>>>             at council level. I do not support the downsizing of the
>>>             fellowship and nextgen by a blind cut with no metrics
>>>             and debate to balance it out.
>>>
>>>             If that is changed slightly like you did for the council
>>>             to change that part, I will fully support.?
>>>
>>>             ?Cheers,
>>>             Martin?
>>>
>>>             On 21 Feb 2018 21:22, "Rafik Dammak"
>>>             <rafik.dammak at gmail.com <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com>>
>>>             wrote:
>>>
>>>                 Thanks Ayden for the revisions,
>>>                 I want to ask all PC members to review asap the
>>>                 draft for endorsment,? the deadline for submission
>>>                 is 2 weeks away and just before PR meeting.
>>>
>>>                 Best,
>>>
>>>                 Rafik
>>>
>>>                 2018-02-22 9:14 GMT+09:00 Ayden F?rdeline
>>>                 <icann at ferdeline.com <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>>:
>>>
>>>                     Dear all,
>>>
>>>                     I have revised the proposed NCSG comment on the
>>>                     FY19 budget:?
>>>
>>>                     https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tBia4z5QQFGz9vFUQUkS0lbZNqU6C5n4pyUmlH3m8e8/edit?usp=sharing
>>>                     <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tBia4z5QQFGz9vFUQUkS0lbZNqU6C5n4pyUmlH3m8e8/edit?usp=sharing>
>>>
>>>                     It has not received very many edits or comments
>>>                     just yet. I hope it is on the right track.?
>>>
>>>                     Thanks,
>>>
>>>                     Ayden
>>>
>>>                     _______________________________________________
>>>                     NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>                     NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>                     https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>                     <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>                 _______________________________________________
>>>                 NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>                 NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>                 https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>                 <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>>>
>>>
>>>             _______________________________________________
>>>             NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>             NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>             https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>             <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>>>
>>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     NCSG-PC mailing list
>     NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>     https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>     <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc

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From icann at ferdeline.com  Fri Mar  2 23:20:53 2018
From: icann at ferdeline.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ayden_F=C3=A9rdeline?=)
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2018 16:20:53 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Fw: [Gnso-rds-pdp-7] ICANN61 Prep Assignment
In-Reply-To: <801D9A4B-3756-4D55-AD88-996BA0447448@icann.org>
References: <801D9A4B-3756-4D55-AD88-996BA0447448@icann.org>
Message-ID: <NTNBPWi5SIs4E1JQzTLwVGgd6e1wrDRT8RCcFzsgUu6CVIfIbBoGhtXGTwjW4MA5H-Qig3oKcCHngY0vVPMIvyx1enlkKvn1aiohJGP4Omk=@ferdeline.com>

Hi,

I don't have time to contribute meaningfully to this RDS subgroup on criminal activity; the short turnaround time (i.e. complete all the work next week) conflicts with other commitments that I have made. If any RDS PDP WG member has the capacity to take this on, that would be greatly appreciated. It's not really clear what the subgroup is being asked to do, and we didn't examine the last output we produced, so I'm not sure it's a huge loss if we don't participate, but you never know... I'll definitely read the emails sent to this list and flag anything I see that seems problematic, but if anyone wants to take the pen here, no one else is really stepping forward at the moment.

Ayden

??????? Original Message ???????
On 27 February 2018 9:21 PM, Marika Konings <marika.konings at icann.org> wrote:

> Dear Drafting Team 7,
>
> As those who were on today?s call heard, we have decided to take a week to prep for ICANN61 by working on a specific assignment in drafting team mode.
>
> Our team?s assignment is to reexamine our past output on Criminal Activity/ DNS Abuse Mitigation:
>
> https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/74580010/DraftingTeam7-CrimInvAbuseMit-10%20Nov%202017%20clean.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1510442602000&api=v2
>
> to answer the following questions more explicitly and conceptually:
>
> - Who associated with the domain name registration needs to be identified and/or contacted for each purpose?
>
> - What is the objective achieved by identifying and/or contacting each of those entities?
>
> - What might be expected of that entity with regard to the domain name?
>
> To prep for ICANN61, it is imperative that we discuss these questions and produce output over the next week ? ideally by 5 March but no later than 7 March.
>
> We know this is a tall order, give a short timeframe. However, the leadership believes that this will help us use our F2F time at ICANN61 more effectively, which I hope we all agree would be a terrific idea.
>
> To give us a head start, attached please find a first draft at answers, prepared by me from our past output, and raising a few potential gaps for discussion.
>
> To learn more about this assignment, please read these instructions: https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/79432608/Drafting%20Team%20Assignment%2026%20Feb.pdf.
>
> If you were unable to attend today?s WG call, please catch up by reading or listening to the call recording/notes/transcript: https://community.icann.org/x/oAu8B.
>
> To get started, please ask any questions you may have about this assignment within the next 24 hours.
>
> If you have any suggested edits or additions or deletions to the attached first draft, even better!  I encourage you to share them in reply to this message, copying the DT mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-7 at icann.org.
>
> Thanks for doing what you can to help this drafting team come through on this new assignment.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Marika
>
> Marika Konings
>
> Vice President, Policy Development Support ? GNSO, Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)
>
> Email: marika.konings at icann.org
>
> Follow the GNSO via Twitter @ICANN_GNSO
>
> Find out more about the GNSO by taking our [interactive courses](http://learn.icann.org/courses/gnso) and visiting the [GNSO Newcomer pages](http://gnso.icann.org/sites/gnso.icann.org/files/gnso/presentations/policy-efforts.htm#newcomers).
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From icann at ferdeline.com  Sat Mar  3 01:44:01 2018
From: icann at ferdeline.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ayden_F=C3=A9rdeline?=)
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2018 18:44:01 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Public Comment: Uniform Board Member Integrity Screening
 Process
Message-ID: <mskW7oHHrooZc2YRcICCqFe0X9cMYYtgZmm_nH4g0Gg_VmhletqgA9O_ZzrlgyEgVeVf5Z46ox87ZfjVZ_zFxfALFTHRzxp7N7qfU-g1tTc=@ferdeline.com>

Another comment to respond to.

"This public comment proceeding seeks community input on the recommendation that Supporting Organizations and Advisory Committees that do not currently employ a due diligence integrity screening process similar to the Nominating Committee adopt the proposed Uniform Board Member Integrity Screening Process to conduct due diligence on the candidates selected to serve on the ICANN Board."

Seems like common sense to me, but may I suggest we lend our support to the sentiment...

https://www.icann.org/public-comments/board-integrity-screening-2018-03-02-en

Ayden
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From rafik.dammak at gmail.com  Sat Mar  3 02:44:12 2018
From: rafik.dammak at gmail.com (Rafik Dammak)
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2018 09:44:12 +0900
Subject: [NCSG-PC] For approval, Art 29WP letter
In-Reply-To: <436a60ee-e440-cc2b-64eb-4a273084a803@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <2b6f5fe6-72c8-d162-ba88-5815f1e505dc@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <f54dce74-980f-243e-10a0-7e83ecf4a5fb@kathykleiman.com>
 <9943b747-7e3c-4996-3451-264c7de89306@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAH5sThmYu9WoO+PwXb67z3Bj9Gh-8kpkBbbXLADY4mehN-KMLw@mail.gmail.com>
 <436a60ee-e440-cc2b-64eb-4a273084a803@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <CAH5sThkWLC3EDtT4XKgwWv8HE4FRwxW3fapVLtRhMFNWPRha-Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Stephanie,

can you please send the revised version for us to do a quick review and
send it by Monday?
Thanks,

Best Regards,

Rafik

2018-03-02 6:01 GMT+09:00 Stephanie Perrin <
stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>:

> I was thinking we need to update and re-consult because ICANN has released
> its draft.  I was going to send a new version tonight.  Perhaps I could
> just do that in markup and we could have a very quick turnaround....
>
> cheers Steph
> On 2018-03-01 01:10, Rafik Dammak wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Thanks, Stephanie again for this,
> if there is no strong objection in NCSG lists by Friday 2nd March 11:59
> UTC, we can interpret that we got consensus on sending the letter. We are
> following here a "fast-track" approach due to the time constraint imposed
> by the GDPR work. As the letter is signed by Farzaneh in her quality of
> NCSG chair, she is tasked to send it.  for convenience, can you share what
> are the mail addresses to send to?
> it is aligned with what we discussed regarding the interim model comment:
> we made a first principled submission but now it is time to work around
> what it seems the convergence model and influence it.  Farzaneh shared the
> details about the webinar scheduled for tomorrow and we will continue the
> discussion there about the next steps and prepare for Puerto Rico.
>
> Best,
>
> Rafik
>
> 2018-03-01 0:09 GMT+09:00 Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.
> utoronto.ca>:
>
>> Attached is a cleaned up version which harmonizes our name with no
>> hyphens (not that I like it, but we have cards printed that way so....)  I
>> dated it for tomorrow assuming it will go out then....
>>
>> I was remiss in not thanking Farzi for starting this draft off, and
>> providing all the background NCSG info, and to Ayden for valuable comments
>> and contributions.
>>
>> Stephanie
>> On 2018-02-27 21:48, Kathy Kleiman wrote:
>>
>> I think this letter is brilliant. Tx you, Stephanie, for drafting such an
>> amazing piece!
>> Best, Kathy
>>
>> On 2/27/2018 5:49 PM, Stephanie Perrin wrote:
>>
>> Please find attached the draft Article 29 Working Party letter, for
>> approval.
>>
>> cheers Stephanie
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing listNCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.ishttps://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing listNCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.ishttps://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>
>>
>
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From icann at ferdeline.com  Sat Mar  3 16:17:43 2018
From: icann at ferdeline.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ayden_F=C3=A9rdeline?=)
Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2018 09:17:43 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-PC] [new draft] NCSG Budget Comment
In-Reply-To: <cb90b9c0-017f-82f8-f97c-6360ad9d8caa@mpicc.de>
References: <fszTbi7KngfWh_ihhjgri94y0Uc7Oc7pD_WcXW_PrpODCNOPHeGJMP6RC_cfAp9BUOAfuD5xeH1cFwokeX9pjp_b6alZlN7TOHv3N6BEYe4=@ferdeline.com>
 <CAH5sTh=mwdVbha1yLP2XujWFFt+X9VpPJODuP2mzJk-o8jM23w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJjnsDGw++awsh-NjKOAdR+d2xDvQu1Y7-j7R_maeZMiF3pNJw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABDXvWrLVBZcqwKC+pYoL9PhcK1aVqUDE8H-VmwvvkRyCHGgOQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <zw_4rZDtawvwnzx_KkoiqN6AQXqPcn9_OZrK-6Oa1mqalY8REoFuUyko5jUoWLgC7EBkjfLyHDN5RBsXKlH_99YVUD-YyEd7-6uXU2LbTu4=@ferdeline.com>
 <CABDXvWpUQNT4upbdySp-es6dhTcOvBndEitxn7AF3+d3qh0esQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <-LWvq1ayuCH7QYrxmLEHxXonVRpDBhSw_ewTiauHogk7pPnyLCNEsFn0Bkwzzdr17c_4RsXH3HT6nQcFpguunqegSWd2xP8y-QnhlsW3ZaM=@ferdeline.com>
 <CAH5sThm9Sax1AZx68gUUCUNt=bENXw+_3qOiJNEjvVvcK0wSyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <cb90b9c0-017f-82f8-f97c-6360ad9d8caa@mpicc.de>
Message-ID: <44-D6AvMFzftNlIHjJo_HsG4iN-mMnqaopqYSDcW5fcSyLRblH7bRI7CQ5Z4G3_9CtsQfXMvK3QptJ6Q0BpFVPDn0IlGtCiKcK914IOnr9Y=@ferdeline.com>

Thanks very much, Tanya-

Rafik, are we able to submit this comment now?

Best, Ayden

Sent from ProtonMail Mobile

On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 21:21, Dr. Tatiana Tropina <t.tropina at mpicc.de> wrote:

> All, am fine with the comment - you have my approval for submission and BIG BIG thanks to Ayden for holding the pen and his tireless work on this. Thank you so much, Ayden.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tanya
>
> On 01/03/18 06:59, Rafik Dammak wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> reading and comparing the related paragraphs in council and NCSG comments, ours seems simpler and the main part is basically about the assessment and evaluation of the programs as discussed before. I won't go into semantics but I believe we are taking the simple position of evaluation of the programs for now before making any decision.
>>
>> the comment is in good shape too for submission and not critical comments pending there. @Ayden can you give another look for clean-up
>>
>> Asking all PC members to review, help for proof-reading in next day so we can submit before the public comment deadline.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Rafik
>>
>> 2018-02-26 19:12 GMT+09:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>:
>>
>>> Thanks Arsene, I think we are expressing the same sentiment albeit diplomatically, however I will allow Rafik as PC Chair to mediate and resolve this one.
>>>
>>> Best wishes, Ayden
>>>
>>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>>> On 26 February 2018 11:10 AM, Ars?ne Tungali < arsenebaguma at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> May I suggest something like: "We do not support the current suggested harsh cut on these programs but we request an assessment before any such decision can be taken". This is what i would like to see there. I am not that good in English so would suggest a rephrasing so it means this for me. If what is written there is the same as what i am sugesting, then fine with me. The current language on that one sentence is confusing for me.
>>>> And i will leave this here for you guys to decide as a group.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> Arsene
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------
>>>> *  [Ars?ne Tungali](http://about.me/ArseneTungali)*
>>>> Co-Founder & Executive Director,   [Rudi international](http://www.rudiinternational.org),
>>>> CEO, [Smart Services Sarl](http://www.smart-serv.info), [Mabingwa Forum](http://www.mabingwa-forum.com)
>>>> Tel: [+243 993810967](tel:+243%20993%20810%20967)
>>>>
>>>> GPG: 523644A0
>>>> Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo
>>>>
>>>> [2015 Mandela Washington Felllow](http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html) (YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF  [Brazil](http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/igf-ambassadors-programme/Past-Ambassadors) &   [Mexico](http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/Current-Ambassadors)) -   [AFRISIG 2016](http://afrisig.org/afrisig-2016/class-of-2016/) -     [Blogger](http://tungali.blogspot.com)- ICANN's     [GNSO Council](https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm)Member.AFRINIC Fellow (     [Mauritius](http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/1907-afrinic-25-fellowship-winners)) -    [IGFSA Member](http://www.igfsa.org/)- Internet Governance - Internet Freedom.
>>>>
>>>> Check the 2016 State of Internet Freedom in DRC report (  [English](http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=234)) and (  [French](http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=242))
>>>>
>>>> 2018-02-26 12:04 GMT+02:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> I feel like I'm responding to a carbon copy of Martin's comment - so my answer remains the same! :-) The dictionary definition of 'rightsizing' is to "convert (something) to an appropriate or optimum size." That's what we are saying, and I think it is apparent if read in the context of the entire paragraph and not that one sentence which has been extracted.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ayden
>>>>>
>>>>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>>>>> On 26 February 2018 10:19 AM, Ars?ne Tungali <arsenebaguma at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe this is the section that is problematic in my view and needs to be rephrased: "We support the rightsizing of the fellowship and NextGen programmes." It means for me that we support the fact that those programs are cut the way it is suggested in the budget. I don't think we have consensus on this and we should not support, as a SG, the way these programs have been reduced in number (by half or so). I may be wrong though :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think what we encourage, and what we have agreement on, is the need for an assessment on the effectiveneess of the program and only after that assessment, we can agree on the right action to take on it. This can lead to a cut in number of attendees or anything else but we cannot say that at this moment, before that professional assessment is done. And I believe that's what we pushed for at Council level.
>>>>>> Other than that, i fully support the submission of this comment and would like to thank Ayden and everyone for their participation. After reading the comment, it captures everything we discussed and captures what we stand for. As i always say, this is a good informational piece as well for us.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>>> *     [Ars?ne Tungali](http://about.me/ArseneTungali)*
>>>>>> Co-Founder & Executive Director,    [Rudi international](http://www.rudiinternational.org),
>>>>>>
>>>>>> CEO, [Smart Services Sarl](http://www.smart-serv.info), [Mabingwa Forum](http://www.mabingwa-forum.com)
>>>>>> Tel: [+243 993810967](tel:+243%20993%20810%20967)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> GPG: 523644A0
>>>>>> Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo
>>>>>> [2015 Mandela Washington Felllow](http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html) (YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF     [Brazil](http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/igf-ambassadors-programme/Past-Ambassadors) &     [Mexico](http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/Current-Ambassadors)) -    [AFRISIG 2016](http://afrisig.org/afrisig-2016/class-of-2016/)-     [Blogger](http://tungali.blogspot.com)- ICANN's     [GNSO Council](https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm)Member.AFRINIC Fellow (     [Mauritius](http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/1907-afrinic-25-fellowship-winners)) -    [IGFSA Member](http://www.igfsa.org/)- Internet Governance - Internet Freedom.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check the 2016 State of Internet Freedom in DRC report (     [English](http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=234)) and (     [French](http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=242))
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2018-02-22 6:42 GMT+02:00 Martin Pablo Silva Valent <mpsilvavalent at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is all good for me, except for the same part I opposed at council level. I do not support the downsizing of the fellowship and nextgen by a blind cut with no metrics and debate to balance it out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If that is changed slightly like you did for the council to change that part, I will fully support.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Cheers,
>>>>>>> Martin
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 21 Feb 2018 21:22, "Rafik Dammak" <rafik.dammak at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks Ayden for the revisions,
>>>>>>>> I want to ask all PC members to review asap the draft for endorsment,  the deadline for submission is 2 weeks away and just before PR meeting.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Rafik
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2018-02-22 9:14 GMT+09:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have revised the proposed NCSG comment on the FY19 budget:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tBia4z5QQFGz9vFUQUkS0lbZNqU6C5n4pyUmlH3m8e8/edit?usp=sharing
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It has not received very many edits or comments just yet. I hope it is on the right track.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ayden
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>>>>>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>>>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>>>>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>>>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>
>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
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From icann at ferdeline.com  Sun Mar  4 13:35:33 2018
From: icann at ferdeline.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ayden_F=C3=A9rdeline?=)
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2018 06:35:33 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-PC] [new draft] NCSG Budget Comment
In-Reply-To: <44-D6AvMFzftNlIHjJo_HsG4iN-mMnqaopqYSDcW5fcSyLRblH7bRI7CQ5Z4G3_9CtsQfXMvK3QptJ6Q0BpFVPDn0IlGtCiKcK914IOnr9Y=@ferdeline.com>
References: <fszTbi7KngfWh_ihhjgri94y0Uc7Oc7pD_WcXW_PrpODCNOPHeGJMP6RC_cfAp9BUOAfuD5xeH1cFwokeX9pjp_b6alZlN7TOHv3N6BEYe4=@ferdeline.com>
 <CAH5sTh=mwdVbha1yLP2XujWFFt+X9VpPJODuP2mzJk-o8jM23w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJjnsDGw++awsh-NjKOAdR+d2xDvQu1Y7-j7R_maeZMiF3pNJw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABDXvWrLVBZcqwKC+pYoL9PhcK1aVqUDE8H-VmwvvkRyCHGgOQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <zw_4rZDtawvwnzx_KkoiqN6AQXqPcn9_OZrK-6Oa1mqalY8REoFuUyko5jUoWLgC7EBkjfLyHDN5RBsXKlH_99YVUD-YyEd7-6uXU2LbTu4=@ferdeline.com>
 <CABDXvWpUQNT4upbdySp-es6dhTcOvBndEitxn7AF3+d3qh0esQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <-LWvq1ayuCH7QYrxmLEHxXonVRpDBhSw_ewTiauHogk7pPnyLCNEsFn0Bkwzzdr17c_4RsXH3HT6nQcFpguunqegSWd2xP8y-QnhlsW3ZaM=@ferdeline.com>
 <CAH5sThm9Sax1AZx68gUUCUNt=bENXw+_3qOiJNEjvVvcK0wSyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <cb90b9c0-017f-82f8-f97c-6360ad9d8caa@mpicc.de>
 <44-D6AvMFzftNlIHjJo_HsG4iN-mMnqaopqYSDcW5fcSyLRblH7bRI7CQ5Z4G3_9CtsQfXMvK3QptJ6Q0BpFVPDn0IlGtCiKcK914IOnr9Y=@ferdeline.com>
Message-ID: <k8REciat3CjEYM7WKfd6OyYvdJ0sX6AmV4tkFJqCjqlpD7dzLtEKsx7jGgHF3GNs7e7l6-wXEY9gKfrdRQIRLhkgjolFRTSKZgDCfoyOKys=@ferdeline.com>

I no longer know what the status of this comment is, but I'm crossing it off my to-do list and will no longer track whether it is submitted or not (nor do I care anymore). It's been on our mailing list for some seven weeks and I need to focus on prep for the IFF and ICANN61 now.

Regards,

Ayden

??????? Original Message ???????
On 3 March 2018 3:17 PM, Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com> wrote:

> Thanks very much, Tanya-
>
> Rafik, are we able to submit this comment now?
>
> Best, Ayden
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>
> On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 21:21, Dr. Tatiana Tropina <t.tropina at mpicc.de> wrote:
>
>> All, am fine with the comment - you have my approval for submission and BIG BIG thanks to Ayden for holding the pen and his tireless work on this. Thank you so much, Ayden.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Tanya
>>
>> On 01/03/18 06:59, Rafik Dammak wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> reading and comparing the related paragraphs in council and NCSG comments, ours seems simpler and the main part is basically about the assessment and evaluation of the programs as discussed before. I won't go into semantics but I believe we are taking the simple position of evaluation of the programs for now before making any decision.
>>>
>>> the comment is in good shape too for submission and not critical comments pending there. @Ayden can you give another look for clean-up
>>>
>>> Asking all PC members to review, help for proof-reading in next day so we can submit before the public comment deadline.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Rafik
>>>
>>> 2018-02-26 19:12 GMT+09:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>:
>>>
>>>> Thanks Arsene, I think we are expressing the same sentiment albeit diplomatically, however I will allow Rafik as PC Chair to mediate and resolve this one.
>>>>
>>>> Best wishes, Ayden
>>>>
>>>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>>>> On 26 February 2018 11:10 AM, Ars?ne Tungali < arsenebaguma at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> May I suggest something like: "We do not support the current suggested harsh cut on these programs but we request an assessment before any such decision can be taken". This is what i would like to see there. I am not that good in English so would suggest a rephrasing so it means this for me. If what is written there is the same as what i am sugesting, then fine with me. The current language on that one sentence is confusing for me.
>>>>> And i will leave this here for you guys to decide as a group.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>> Arsene
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>> *  [Ars?ne Tungali](http://about.me/ArseneTungali)*
>>>>> Co-Founder & Executive Director,   [Rudi international](http://www.rudiinternational.org),
>>>>> CEO, [Smart Services Sarl](http://www.smart-serv.info), [Mabingwa Forum](http://www.mabingwa-forum.com)
>>>>> Tel: [+243 993810967](tel:+243%20993%20810%20967)
>>>>> GPG: 523644A0
>>>>> Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo
>>>>> [2015 Mandela Washington Felllow](http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html) (YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF  [Brazil](http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/igf-ambassadors-programme/Past-Ambassadors) &   [Mexico](http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/Current-Ambassadors)) -   [AFRISIG 2016](http://afrisig.org/afrisig-2016/class-of-2016/) -     [Blogger](http://tungali.blogspot.com)- ICANN's     [GNSO Council](https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm)Member.AFRINIC Fellow (     [Mauritius](http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/1907-afrinic-25-fellowship-winners)) -    [IGFSA Member](http://www.igfsa.org/)- Internet Governance - Internet Freedom.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check the 2016 State of Internet Freedom in DRC report (  [English](http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=234)) and (  [French](http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=242))
>>>>>
>>>>> 2018-02-26 12:04 GMT+02:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I feel like I'm responding to a carbon copy of Martin's comment - so my answer remains the same! :-) The dictionary definition of 'rightsizing' is to "convert (something) to an appropriate or optimum size." That's what we are saying, and I think it is apparent if read in the context of the entire paragraph and not that one sentence which has been extracted.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ayden
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>>>>>> On 26 February 2018 10:19 AM, Ars?ne Tungali <arsenebaguma at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I believe this is the section that is problematic in my view and needs to be rephrased: "We support the rightsizing of the fellowship and NextGen programmes." It means for me that we support the fact that those programs are cut the way it is suggested in the budget. I don't think we have consensus on this and we should not support, as a SG, the way these programs have been reduced in number (by half or so). I may be wrong though :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think what we encourage, and what we have agreement on, is the need for an assessment on the effectiveneess of the program and only after that assessment, we can agree on the right action to take on it. This can lead to a cut in number of attendees or anything else but we cannot say that at this moment, before that professional assessment is done. And I believe that's what we pushed for at Council level.
>>>>>>> Other than that, i fully support the submission of this comment and would like to thank Ayden and everyone for their participation. After reading the comment, it captures everything we discussed and captures what we stand for. As i always say, this is a good informational piece as well for us.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>>>> *     [Ars?ne Tungali](http://about.me/ArseneTungali)*
>>>>>>> Co-Founder & Executive Director,    [Rudi international](http://www.rudiinternational.org),
>>>>>>> CEO, [Smart Services Sarl](http://www.smart-serv.info), [Mabingwa Forum](http://www.mabingwa-forum.com)
>>>>>>> Tel: [+243 993810967](tel:+243%20993%20810%20967)
>>>>>>> GPG: 523644A0
>>>>>>> Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo
>>>>>>> [2015 Mandela Washington Felllow](http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html) (YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF     [Brazil](http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/igf-ambassadors-programme/Past-Ambassadors) &     [Mexico](http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/Current-Ambassadors)) -    [AFRISIG 2016](http://afrisig.org/afrisig-2016/class-of-2016/)-     [Blogger](http://tungali.blogspot.com)- ICANN's     [GNSO Council](https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm)Member.AFRINIC Fellow (     [Mauritius](http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/1907-afrinic-25-fellowship-winners)) -    [IGFSA Member](http://www.igfsa.org/)- Internet Governance - Internet Freedom.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Check the 2016 State of Internet Freedom in DRC report (     [English](http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=234)) and (     [French](http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=242))
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2018-02-22 6:42 GMT+02:00 Martin Pablo Silva Valent <mpsilvavalent at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is all good for me, except for the same part I opposed at council level. I do not support the downsizing of the fellowship and nextgen by a blind cut with no metrics and debate to balance it out.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If that is changed slightly like you did for the council to change that part, I will fully support.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Martin
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 21 Feb 2018 21:22, "Rafik Dammak" <rafik.dammak at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks Ayden for the revisions,
>>>>>>>>> I want to ask all PC members to review asap the draft for endorsment,  the deadline for submission is 2 weeks away and just before PR meeting.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Rafik
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2018-02-22 9:14 GMT+09:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have revised the proposed NCSG comment on the FY19 budget:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tBia4z5QQFGz9vFUQUkS0lbZNqU6C5n4pyUmlH3m8e8/edit?usp=sharing
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It has not received very many edits or comments just yet. I hope it is on the right track.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ayden
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>>>>>>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>>>>>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>>>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>>>>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>
>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
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From farzaneh.badii at gmail.com  Sun Mar  4 14:29:47 2018
From: farzaneh.badii at gmail.com (farzaneh badii)
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2018 07:29:47 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-PC] [new draft] NCSG Budget Comment
In-Reply-To: <k8REciat3CjEYM7WKfd6OyYvdJ0sX6AmV4tkFJqCjqlpD7dzLtEKsx7jGgHF3GNs7e7l6-wXEY9gKfrdRQIRLhkgjolFRTSKZgDCfoyOKys=@ferdeline.com>
References: <fszTbi7KngfWh_ihhjgri94y0Uc7Oc7pD_WcXW_PrpODCNOPHeGJMP6RC_cfAp9BUOAfuD5xeH1cFwokeX9pjp_b6alZlN7TOHv3N6BEYe4=@ferdeline.com>
 <CAH5sTh=mwdVbha1yLP2XujWFFt+X9VpPJODuP2mzJk-o8jM23w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJjnsDGw++awsh-NjKOAdR+d2xDvQu1Y7-j7R_maeZMiF3pNJw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABDXvWrLVBZcqwKC+pYoL9PhcK1aVqUDE8H-VmwvvkRyCHGgOQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <zw_4rZDtawvwnzx_KkoiqN6AQXqPcn9_OZrK-6Oa1mqalY8REoFuUyko5jUoWLgC7EBkjfLyHDN5RBsXKlH_99YVUD-YyEd7-6uXU2LbTu4=@ferdeline.com>
 <CABDXvWpUQNT4upbdySp-es6dhTcOvBndEitxn7AF3+d3qh0esQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <-LWvq1ayuCH7QYrxmLEHxXonVRpDBhSw_ewTiauHogk7pPnyLCNEsFn0Bkwzzdr17c_4RsXH3HT6nQcFpguunqegSWd2xP8y-QnhlsW3ZaM=@ferdeline.com>
 <CAH5sThm9Sax1AZx68gUUCUNt=bENXw+_3qOiJNEjvVvcK0wSyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <cb90b9c0-017f-82f8-f97c-6360ad9d8caa@mpicc.de>
 <44-D6AvMFzftNlIHjJo_HsG4iN-mMnqaopqYSDcW5fcSyLRblH7bRI7CQ5Z4G3_9CtsQfXMvK3QptJ6Q0BpFVPDn0IlGtCiKcK914IOnr9Y=@ferdeline.com>
 <k8REciat3CjEYM7WKfd6OyYvdJ0sX6AmV4tkFJqCjqlpD7dzLtEKsx7jGgHF3GNs7e7l6-wXEY9gKfrdRQIRLhkgjolFRTSKZgDCfoyOKys=@ferdeline.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1qJvAVUUG7+8dSMt6_qrHYe6smNhOscfXQJMyBHXUghztncg@mail.gmail.com>

I support the submission of this public comment.

Thank you Ayden for drafting it.

Farzaneh

On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 6:35 AM, Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com> wrote:

> I no longer know what the status of this comment is, but I'm crossing it
> off my to-do list and will no longer track whether it is submitted or not
> (nor do I care anymore). It's been on our mailing list for some seven weeks
> and I need to focus on prep for the IFF and ICANN61 now.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ayden
>
>
> ??????? Original Message ???????
> On 3 March 2018 3:17 PM, Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks very much, Tanya-
>
> Rafik, are we able to submit this comment now?
>
> Best, Ayden
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 21:21, Dr. Tatiana Tropina <t.tropina at mpicc.de>
> wrote:
>
> All, am fine with the comment - you have my approval for submission and
> BIG BIG thanks to Ayden for holding the pen and his tireless work on this.
> Thank you so much, Ayden.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tanya
>
> On 01/03/18 06:59, Rafik Dammak wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> reading and comparing the related paragraphs in council and NCSG comments,
> ours seems simpler and the main part is basically about the assessment and
> evaluation of the programs as discussed before. I won't go into semantics
> but I believe we are taking the simple position of evaluation of the
> programs for now before making any decision.
>
> the comment is in good shape too for submission and not critical comments
> pending there. @Ayden can you give another look for clean-up
>
> Asking all PC members to review, help for proof-reading in next day so we
> can submit before the public comment deadline.
>
> Best,
>
> Rafik
>
>
>
> 2018-02-26 19:12 GMT+09:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>:
>
> Thanks Arsene, I think we are expressing the same sentiment albeit
>> diplomatically, however I will allow Rafik as PC Chair to mediate and
>> resolve this one.
>>
>> Best wishes, Ayden
>>
>>
>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>> On 26 February 2018 11:10 AM, Ars?ne Tungali < arsenebaguma at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> May I suggest something like: "We do not support the current suggested
>> harsh cut on these programs but we request an assessment before any such
>> decision can be taken". This is what i would like to see there. I am not
>> that good in English so would suggest a rephrasing so it means this for me.
>> If what is written there is the same as what i am sugesting, then fine with
>> me. The current language on that one sentence is confusing for me.
>> And i will leave this here for you guys to decide as a group.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Arsene
>>
>> ------------------------
>> * *Ars?ne Tungali* <http://about.me/ArseneTungali>*
>> Co-Founder & Executive Director, * Rudi international
>> <http://www.rudiinternational.org> *,
>> CEO,* Smart Services Sarl <http://www.smart-serv.info>*, *Mabingwa Forum
>> <http://www.mabingwa-forum.com>*
>> Tel: +243 993810967 <+243%20993%20810%20967>
>> GPG: 523644A0
>> *Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo*
>> 2015 Mandela Washington Felllow
>> <http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html>
>> (YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF Brazil
>> <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/igf-ambassadors-programme/Past-Ambassadors>
>> & Mexico
>> <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/Current-Ambassadors>)
>> - AFRISIG 2016 <http://afrisig.org/afrisig-2016/class-of-2016/> - Blogger
>> <http://tungali.blogspot.com>- ICANN's GNSO Council
>> <https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm>Member. AFRINIC Fellow (
>> Mauritius
>> <http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/1907-afrinic-25-fellowship-winners>
>> )* - * IGFSA Member <http://www.igfsa.org/>- Internet Governance -
>> Internet Freedom.
>>
>> Check the *2016 State of Internet Freedom in DRC* report ( English
>> <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=234>) and ( French
>> <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=242>)
>>
>> 2018-02-26 12:04 GMT+02:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>:
>>
>>> I feel like I'm responding to a carbon copy of Martin's comment - so my
>>> answer remains the same! :-) The dictionary definition of 'rightsizing' is
>>> to "convert (something) to an appropriate or optimum size." That's what we
>>> are saying, and I think it is apparent if read in the context of the entire
>>> paragraph and not that one sentence which has been extracted.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Ayden
>>>
>>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>>> On 26 February 2018 10:19 AM, Ars?ne Tungali <arsenebaguma at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I believe this is the section that is problematic in my view and needs
>>> to be rephrased: "*We support the rightsizing of the fellowship and
>>> NextGen programmes*. " It means for me that we support the fact that
>>> those programs are cut the way it is suggested in the budget. I don't think
>>> we have consensus on this and we should not support, as a SG, the way these
>>> programs have been reduced in number (by half or so). I may be wrong though
>>> :)
>>>
>>> I think what we encourage, and what we have agreement on, is the need
>>> for an assessment on the effectiveneess of the program and only after that
>>> assessment, we can agree on the right action to take on it. This can lead
>>> to a cut in number of attendees or anything else but we cannot say that at
>>> this moment, before that professional assessment is done. And I believe
>>> that's what we pushed for at Council level.
>>> Other than that, i fully support the submission of this comment and
>>> would like to thank Ayden and everyone for their participation. After
>>> reading the comment, it captures everything we discussed and captures what
>>> we stand for. As i always say, this is a good informational piece as well
>>> for us.
>>>
>>> ------------------------
>>> * *Ars?ne Tungali* <http://about.me/ArseneTungali>*
>>> Co-Founder & Executive Director, * Rudi international
>>> <http://www.rudiinternational.org> *,
>>> CEO,* Smart Services Sarl <http://www.smart-serv.info>*, *Mabingwa
>>> Forum <http://www.mabingwa-forum.com>*
>>> Tel: +243 993810967 <+243%20993%20810%20967>
>>> GPG: 523644A0
>>> *Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo*
>>> 2015 Mandela Washington Felllow
>>> <http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html>
>>> (YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF Brazil
>>> <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/igf-ambassadors-programme/Past-Ambassadors>
>>> & Mexico
>>> <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/Current-Ambassadors>)
>>> - AFRISIG 2016 <http://afrisig.org/afrisig-2016/class-of-2016/>- Blogger
>>> <http://tungali.blogspot.com>- ICANN's GNSO Council
>>> <https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm>Member. AFRINIC
>>> Fellow ( Mauritius
>>> <http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/1907-afrinic-25-fellowship-winners>
>>> )* - * IGFSA Member <http://www.igfsa.org/>- Internet Governance -
>>> Internet Freedom.
>>>
>>> Check the *2016 State of Internet Freedom in DRC* report ( English
>>> <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=234>) and ( French
>>> <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=242>)
>>>
>>> 2018-02-22 6:42 GMT+02:00 Martin Pablo Silva Valent <
>>> mpsilvavalent at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Is all good for me, except for the same part I opposed at council
>>>> level. I do not support the downsizing of the fellowship and nextgen by a
>>>> blind cut with no metrics and debate to balance it out.
>>>>
>>>> If that is changed slightly like you did for the council to change that
>>>> part, I will fully support.
>>>>
>>>>  Cheers,
>>>> Martin
>>>>
>>>> On 21 Feb 2018 21:22, "Rafik Dammak" <rafik.dammak at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Ayden for the revisions,
>>>>> I want to ask all PC members to review asap the draft for endorsment,
>>>>> the deadline for submission is 2 weeks away and just before PR meeting.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>>
>>>>> Rafik
>>>>>
>>>>> 2018-02-22 9:14 GMT+09:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have revised the proposed NCSG comment on the FY19 budget:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tBia4z5QQFGz9vFUQUkS0lbZ
>>>>>> NqU6C5n4pyUmlH3m8e8/edit?usp=sharing
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It has not received very many edits or comments just yet. I hope it
>>>>>> is on the right track.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ayden
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________ _________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing listNCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.ishttps://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
>
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From kathy at kathykleiman.com  Sun Mar  4 15:53:07 2018
From: kathy at kathykleiman.com (Kathy Kleiman)
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2018 08:53:07 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-PC] [new draft] NCSG Budget Comment
In-Reply-To: <CAN1qJvAVUUG7+8dSMt6_qrHYe6smNhOscfXQJMyBHXUghztncg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fszTbi7KngfWh_ihhjgri94y0Uc7Oc7pD_WcXW_PrpODCNOPHeGJMP6RC_cfAp9BUOAfuD5xeH1cFwokeX9pjp_b6alZlN7TOHv3N6BEYe4=@ferdeline.com>
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Message-ID: <83de7e69-e345-7428-c78e-8569f656df2c@kathykleiman.com>

+1. Thoughtful, well-written and well-reasoned comment. I think it hits 
the nail on the head with this -- /"At the same time, we see no attempts 
to address the larger structural issues to do with growing personnel 
costs and an extraordinary spend on professional services."
/

Great tx to Ayden for drafting, and all who edited.

Best, Kathy

On 3/4/2018 7:29 AM, farzaneh badii wrote:
> I support the submission of this public comment.
>
> Thank you Ayden for drafting it.
>
> Farzaneh
>
> On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 6:35 AM, Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com 
> <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>> wrote:
>
>     I no longer know what the status of this comment is, but I'm
>     crossing it off my to-do list and will no longer track whether it
>     is submitted or not (nor do I care anymore). It's been on our
>     mailing list for some seven weeks and I need to focus on prep for
>     the IFF and ICANN61 now.
>
>     Regards,
>
>     Ayden
>
>
>     ??????? Original Message ???????
>     On 3 March 2018 3:17 PM, Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com
>     <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>> wrote:
>
>>     Thanks very much, Tanya-
>>
>>     Rafik, are we able to submit this comment now?
>>
>>     Best, Ayden
>>
>>     Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>>
>>
>>     On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 21:21, Dr. Tatiana Tropina
>>     <t.tropina at mpicc.de <mailto:t.tropina at mpicc.de>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     All, am fine with the comment - you have my approval for
>>>     submission and BIG BIG thanks to Ayden for holding the pen and
>>>     his tireless work on this. Thank you so much, Ayden.
>>>
>>>     Cheers,
>>>
>>>     Tanya
>>>
>>>
>>>     On 01/03/18 06:59, Rafik Dammak wrote:
>>>>     Hi,
>>>>
>>>>     reading and comparing the related paragraphs in council and
>>>>     NCSG comments, ours seems simpler and the main part is
>>>>     basically about the assessment and evaluation of the programs
>>>>     as discussed before. I won't go into semantics but I believe we
>>>>     are taking the simple position of evaluation of the programs
>>>>     for now before making any decision.
>>>>
>>>>     the comment is in good shape too for submission and not
>>>>     critical comments pending there. @Ayden can you give another
>>>>     look for clean-up
>>>>
>>>>     Asking all PC members to review, help for proof-reading in next
>>>>     day so we can submit before the public comment deadline.
>>>>
>>>>     Best,
>>>>
>>>>     Rafik
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     2018-02-26 19:12 GMT+09:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com
>>>>     <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>>:
>>>>
>>>>         Thanks Arsene, I think we are expressing the same sentiment
>>>>         albeit diplomatically, however I will allow Rafik as PC
>>>>         Chair to mediate and resolve this one.
>>>>
>>>>         Best wishes, Ayden
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         ??????? Original Message ???????
>>>>         On 26 February 2018 11:10 AM, Ars?ne Tungali <
>>>>         arsenebaguma at gmail.com <mailto:arsenebaguma at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>         May I suggest something like: "We do not support the
>>>>>         current suggested harsh cut on these programs but we
>>>>>         request an assessment before any such decision can be
>>>>>         taken". This is what i would like to see there. I am not
>>>>>         that good in English so would suggest a rephrasing so it
>>>>>         means this for me. If what is written there is the same as
>>>>>         what i am sugesting, then fine with me. The current
>>>>>         language on that one sentence is confusing for me.
>>>>>         And i will leave this here for you guys to decide as a group.
>>>>>
>>>>>         Thank you,
>>>>>         Arsene
>>>>>
>>>>>         ------------------------
>>>>>         **Ars?ne Tungali* <http://about.me/ArseneTungali>*
>>>>>         Co-Founder & Executive Director, /Rudi international
>>>>>         <http://www.rudiinternational.org> /,
>>>>>         CEO,/Smart Services Sarl <http://www.smart-serv.info>/,
>>>>>         /Mabingwa Forum <http://www.mabingwa-forum.com>/
>>>>>         Tel: +243 993810967 <tel:+243%20993%20810%20967>
>>>>>         GPG: 523644A0
>>>>>         _Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo_
>>>>>         2015 Mandela Washington Felllow
>>>>>         <http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html>
>>>>>         (YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF Brazil
>>>>>         <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/igf-ambassadors-programme/Past-Ambassadors>
>>>>>         & Mexico
>>>>>         <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/Current-Ambassadors>)
>>>>>         - AFRISIG 2016
>>>>>         <http://afrisig.org/afrisig-2016/class-of-2016/> - Blogger
>>>>>         <http://tungali.blogspot.com>- ICANN's GNSO Council
>>>>>         <https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm>Member.//AFRINIC
>>>>>         Fellow //( Mauritius
>>>>>         <http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/1907-afrinic-25-fellowship-winners>)/-
>>>>>         /IGFSA Member <http://www.igfsa.org/>- Internet Governance
>>>>>         - Internet Freedom. //
>>>>>
>>>>>         Check the /2016 State of Internet Freedom in DRC/ report
>>>>>         (English <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=234>) and (French
>>>>>         <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=242>)
>>>>>
>>>>>         2018-02-26 12:04 GMT+02:00 Ayden F?rdeline
>>>>>         <icann at ferdeline.com <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>>:
>>>>>
>>>>>             I feel like I'm responding to a carbon copy of
>>>>>             Martin's comment - so my answer remains the same! :-)
>>>>>             The dictionary definition of 'rightsizing' is to
>>>>>             "convert (something) to an appropriate or optimum
>>>>>             size." That's what we are saying, and I think it is
>>>>>             apparent if read in the context of the entire
>>>>>             paragraph and not that one sentence which has been
>>>>>             extracted.
>>>>>
>>>>>             Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>>             Ayden
>>>>>
>>>>>             ??????? Original Message ???????
>>>>>             On 26 February 2018 10:19 AM, Ars?ne Tungali
>>>>>             <arsenebaguma at gmail.com
>>>>>             <mailto:arsenebaguma at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>             I believe this is the section that is problematic in
>>>>>>             my view and needs to be rephrased: "/We support the
>>>>>>             rightsizing of the fellowship and NextGen
>>>>>>             programmes/. " It means for me that we support the
>>>>>>             fact that those programs are cut the way it is
>>>>>>             suggested in the budget. I don't think we have
>>>>>>             consensus on this and we should not support, as a SG,
>>>>>>             the way these programs have been reduced in number
>>>>>>             (by half or so). I may be wrong though :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             I think what we encourage, and what we have agreement
>>>>>>             on, is the need for an assessment on the
>>>>>>             effectiveneess of the program and only after that
>>>>>>             assessment, we can agree on the right action to take
>>>>>>             on it. This can lead to a cut in number of attendees
>>>>>>             or anything else but we cannot say that at this
>>>>>>             moment, before that professional assessment is done.
>>>>>>             And I believe that's what we pushed for at Council
>>>>>>             level.
>>>>>>             Other than that, i fully support the submission of
>>>>>>             this comment and would like to thank Ayden and
>>>>>>             everyone for their participation. After reading the
>>>>>>             comment, it captures everything we discussed and
>>>>>>             captures what we stand for. As i always say, this is
>>>>>>             a good informational piece as well for us.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             ------------------------
>>>>>>             * *Ars?ne Tungali* <http://about.me/ArseneTungali>*
>>>>>>             Co-Founder & Executive Director, /Rudi international
>>>>>>             <http://www.rudiinternational.org> /,
>>>>>>             CEO,/Smart Services Sarl
>>>>>>             <http://www.smart-serv.info>/, /Mabingwa Forum
>>>>>>             <http://www.mabingwa-forum.com>/
>>>>>>             Tel: +243 993810967 <tel:+243%20993%20810%20967>
>>>>>>             GPG: 523644A0
>>>>>>             _Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo_
>>>>>>             2015 Mandela Washington Felllow
>>>>>>             <http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html>
>>>>>>             (YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF Brazil
>>>>>>             <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/igf-ambassadors-programme/Past-Ambassadors>
>>>>>>             & Mexico
>>>>>>             <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/Current-Ambassadors>)
>>>>>>             - AFRISIG 2016
>>>>>>             <http://afrisig.org/afrisig-2016/class-of-2016/>-
>>>>>>             Blogger <http://tungali.blogspot.com>- ICANN's GNSO
>>>>>>             Council
>>>>>>             <https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm>Member.//AFRINIC
>>>>>>             Fellow //( Mauritius
>>>>>>             <http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/1907-afrinic-25-fellowship-winners>)/-
>>>>>>             /IGFSA Member <http://www.igfsa.org/>- Internet
>>>>>>             Governance - Internet Freedom. //
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             Check the /2016 State of Internet Freedom in DRC/
>>>>>>             report ( English <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=234>)
>>>>>>             and ( French <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=242>)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             2018-02-22 6:42 GMT+02:00 Martin Pablo Silva Valent
>>>>>>             <mpsilvavalent at gmail.com
>>>>>>             <mailto:mpsilvavalent at gmail.com>>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 Is all good for me, except for the same part I
>>>>>>                 opposed at council level. I do not support the
>>>>>>                 downsizing of the fellowship and nextgen by a
>>>>>>                 blind cut with no metrics and debate to balance
>>>>>>                 it out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 If that is changed slightly like you did for the
>>>>>>                 council to change that part, I will fully support.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                  Cheers,
>>>>>>                 Martin
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 On 21 Feb 2018 21:22, "Rafik Dammak"
>>>>>>                 <rafik.dammak at gmail.com
>>>>>>                 <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                     Thanks Ayden for the revisions,
>>>>>>                     I want to ask all PC members to review asap
>>>>>>                     the draft for endorsment, the deadline for
>>>>>>                     submission is 2 weeks away and just before PR
>>>>>>                     meeting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                     Best,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                     Rafik
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                     2018-02-22 9:14 GMT+09:00 Ayden F?rdeline
>>>>>>                     <icann at ferdeline.com
>>>>>>                     <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         Dear all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         I have revised the proposed NCSG comment
>>>>>>                         on the FY19 budget:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tBia4z5QQFGz9vFUQUkS0lbZNqU6C5n4pyUmlH3m8e8/edit?usp=sharing
>>>>>>                         <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tBia4z5QQFGz9vFUQUkS0lbZNqU6C5n4pyUmlH3m8e8/edit?usp=sharing>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         It has not received very many edits or
>>>>>>                         comments just yet. I hope it is on the
>>>>>>                         right track.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         Ayden
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         ______________________________
>>>>>>                         _________________
>>>>>>                         NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>>>                         NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>>>                         <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>>>>                         https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>>>>                         <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                     ______________________________ _________________
>>>>>>                     NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>>>                     NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>>>                     <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>>>>                     https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>>>>                     <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 ______________________________ _________________
>>>>>>                 NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>>>                 NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>>>>                 https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>>>>                 <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         ______________________________ _________________
>>>>         NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>         NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>>         https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>>         <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>     NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>     NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>>     https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>>     <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>>>>
>     _______________________________________________ NCSG-PC mailing
>     list NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>     https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>     <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc> 
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
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From mpsilvavalent at gmail.com  Sun Mar  4 18:07:49 2018
From: mpsilvavalent at gmail.com (Martin Pablo Silva Valent)
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2018 13:07:49 -0300
Subject: [NCSG-PC] [new draft] NCSG Budget Comment
In-Reply-To: <83de7e69-e345-7428-c78e-8569f656df2c@kathykleiman.com>
References: <fszTbi7KngfWh_ihhjgri94y0Uc7Oc7pD_WcXW_PrpODCNOPHeGJMP6RC_cfAp9BUOAfuD5xeH1cFwokeX9pjp_b6alZlN7TOHv3N6BEYe4=@ferdeline.com>
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 <-LWvq1ayuCH7QYrxmLEHxXonVRpDBhSw_ewTiauHogk7pPnyLCNEsFn0Bkwzzdr17c_4RsXH3HT6nQcFpguunqegSWd2xP8y-QnhlsW3ZaM=@ferdeline.com>
 <CAH5sThm9Sax1AZx68gUUCUNt=bENXw+_3qOiJNEjvVvcK0wSyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <cb90b9c0-017f-82f8-f97c-6360ad9d8caa@mpicc.de>
 <44-D6AvMFzftNlIHjJo_HsG4iN-mMnqaopqYSDcW5fcSyLRblH7bRI7CQ5Z4G3_9CtsQfXMvK3QptJ6Q0BpFVPDn0IlGtCiKcK914IOnr9Y=@ferdeline.com>
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 <CAN1qJvAVUUG7+8dSMt6_qrHYe6smNhOscfXQJMyBHXUghztncg@mail.gmail.com>
 <83de7e69-e345-7428-c78e-8569f656df2c@kathykleiman.com>
Message-ID: <AC4F6C5C-EDC3-4020-929F-307751834120@gmail.com>

I already expressed my support weeks ago on the full text as well, but will repeat it just in case.

Cheers,
Mart?n.

> On 4 Mar 2018, at 10:53, Kathy Kleiman <kathy at kathykleiman.com> wrote:
> 
> +1. Thoughtful, well-written and well-reasoned comment. I think it hits the nail on the head with this -- "At the same time, we see no attempts to address the larger structural issues to do with growing personnel costs and an extraordinary spend on professional services."  
> 
> Great tx to Ayden for drafting, and all who edited.
> 
> Best, Kathy
> On 3/4/2018 7:29 AM, farzaneh badii wrote:
>> I support the submission of this public comment.
>> 
>> Thank you Ayden for drafting it.
>> 
>> Farzaneh
>> 
>> On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 6:35 AM, Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>> wrote:
>> I no longer know what the status of this comment is, but I'm crossing it off my to-do list and will no longer track whether it is submitted or not (nor do I care anymore). It's been on our mailing list for some seven weeks and I need to focus on prep for the IFF and ICANN61 now.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Ayden 
>> 
>> 
>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>> On 3 March 2018 3:17 PM, Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Thanks very much, Tanya-
>>> 
>>> Rafik, are we able to submit this comment now? 
>>> 
>>> Best, Ayden
>>> 
>>> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 21:21, Dr. Tatiana Tropina <t.tropina at mpicc.de <mailto:t.tropina at mpicc.de>> wrote:
>>>> All, am fine with the comment - you have my approval for submission and BIG BIG thanks to Ayden for holding the pen and his tireless work on this. Thank you so much, Ayden.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Tanya 
>>>> 
>>>> On 01/03/18 06:59, Rafik Dammak wrote: 
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> reading and comparing the related paragraphs in council and NCSG comments, ours seems simpler and the main part is basically about the assessment and evaluation of the programs as discussed before. I won't go into semantics but I believe we are taking the simple position of evaluation of the programs for now before making any decision.
>>>>> 
>>>>> the comment is in good shape too for submission and not critical comments pending there. @Ayden can you give another look for clean-up
>>>>> 
>>>>> Asking all PC members to review, help for proof-reading in next day so we can submit before the public comment deadline.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Rafik
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 2018-02-26 19:12 GMT+09:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>>: 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks Arsene, I think we are expressing the same sentiment albeit diplomatically, however I will allow Rafik as PC Chair to mediate and resolve this one. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best wishes, Ayden   
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ??????? Original Message ??????? 
>>>>> On 26 February 2018 11:10 AM, Ars?ne Tungali < arsenebaguma at gmail.com <mailto:arsenebaguma at gmail.com>> wrote: 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> May I suggest something like: "We do not support the current suggested harsh cut on these programs but we request an assessment before any such decision can be taken". This is what i would like to see there. I am not that good in English so would suggest a rephrasing so it means this for me. If what is written there is the same as what i am sugesting, then fine with me. The current language on that one sentence is confusing for me. 
>>>>>> And i will leave this here for you guys to decide as a group. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thank you, 
>>>>>> Arsene 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ------------------------ 
>>>>>> *   Ars?ne Tungali <http://about.me/ArseneTungali>* 
>>>>>> Co-Founder & Executive Director,    Rudi international <http://www.rudiinternational.org/> , 
>>>>>> CEO, Smart Services Sarl <http://www.smart-serv.info/>, Mabingwa Forum <http://www.mabingwa-forum.com/> 
>>>>>> Tel: +243 993810967 <tel:+243%20993%20810%20967> 
>>>>>> GPG: 523644A0 
>>>>>> Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo
>>>>>>    2015 Mandela Washington Felllow <http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html> (YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF    Brazil <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/igf-ambassadors-programme/Past-Ambassadors> &    Mexico <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/Current-Ambassadors>) -     AFRISIG 2016 <http://afrisig.org/afrisig-2016/class-of-2016/> -     Blogger <http://tungali.blogspot.com/>- ICANN's     GNSO Council <https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm>Member. AFRINIC Fellow (     Mauritius <http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/1907-afrinic-25-fellowship-winners>) -    IGFSA Member <http://www.igfsa.org/>- Internet Governance - Internet Freedom. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Check the 2016 State of Internet Freedom in DRC report (   English <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=234>) and (   French <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=242>) 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 2018-02-26 12:04 GMT+02:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>>: 
>>>>>> I feel like I'm responding to a carbon copy of Martin's comment - so my answer remains the same! :-) The dictionary definition of 'rightsizing' is to "convert (something) to an appropriate or optimum size." That's what we are saying, and I think it is apparent if read in the context of the entire paragraph and not that one sentence which has been extracted. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks, 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ayden   
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ??????? Original Message ??????? 
>>>>>> On 26 February 2018 10:19 AM, Ars?ne Tungali <arsenebaguma at gmail.com <mailto:arsenebaguma at gmail.com>> wrote: 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I believe this is the section that is problematic in my view and needs to be rephrased: "We support the rightsizing of the fellowship and NextGen programmes. " It means for me that we support the fact that those programs are cut the way it is suggested in the budget. I don't think we have consensus on this and we should not support, as a SG, the way these programs have been reduced in number (by half or so). I may be wrong though :) 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I think what we encourage, and what we have agreement on, is the need for an assessment on the effectiveneess of the program and only after that assessment, we can agree on the right action to take on it. This can lead to a cut in number of attendees or anything else but we cannot say that at this moment, before that professional assessment is done. And I believe that's what we pushed for at Council level. 
>>>>>>> Other than that, i fully support the submission of this comment and would like to thank Ayden and everyone for their participation. After reading the comment, it captures everything we discussed and captures what we stand for. As i always say, this is a good informational piece as well for us. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ------------------------ 
>>>>>>> *     Ars?ne Tungali  <http://about.me/ArseneTungali>* 
>>>>>>> Co-Founder & Executive Director,    Rudi international <http://www.rudiinternational.org/> , 
>>>>>>> CEO, Smart Services Sarl <http://www.smart-serv.info/>, Mabingwa Forum <http://www.mabingwa-forum.com/> 
>>>>>>> Tel: +243 993810967 <tel:+243%20993%20810%20967> 
>>>>>>> GPG: 523644A0 
>>>>>>> Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo 
>>>>>>>     2015 Mandela Washington Felllow  <http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html>(YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF     Brazil <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/igf-ambassadors-programme/Past-Ambassadors> &     Mexico <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/Current-Ambassadors>) -     AFRISIG 2016 <http://afrisig.org/afrisig-2016/class-of-2016/>-     Blogger <http://tungali.blogspot.com/>- ICANN's     GNSO Council <https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm>Member. AFRINIC Fellow (     Mauritius <http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/1907-afrinic-25-fellowship-winners>) -    IGFSA Member <http://www.igfsa.org/>- Internet Governance - Internet Freedom. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Check the 2016 State of Internet Freedom in DRC report (     English <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=234>) and (     French <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=242>) 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 2018-02-22 6:42 GMT+02:00 Martin Pablo Silva Valent <mpsilvavalent at gmail.com <mailto:mpsilvavalent at gmail.com>>: 
>>>>>>> Hi all,  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Is all good for me, except for the same part I opposed at council level. I do not support the downsizing of the fellowship and nextgen by a blind cut with no metrics and debate to balance it out. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If that is changed slightly like you did for the council to change that part, I will fully support.  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  Cheers, 
>>>>>>> Martin  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 21 Feb 2018 21:22, "Rafik Dammak" <rafik.dammak at gmail.com <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com>> wrote: 
>>>>>>> Thanks Ayden for the revisions, 
>>>>>>> I want to ask all PC members to review asap the draft for endorsment,  the deadline for submission is 2 weeks away and just before PR meeting. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Best, 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Rafik 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 2018-02-22 9:14 GMT+09:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>>: 
>>>>>>> Dear all, 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I have revised the proposed NCSG comment on the FY19 budget:  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tBia4z5QQFGz9vFUQUkS0lbZNqU6C5n4pyUmlH3m8e8/edit?usp=sharing <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tBia4z5QQFGz9vFUQUkS0lbZNqU6C5n4pyUmlH3m8e8/edit?usp=sharing> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It has not received very many edits or comments just yet. I hope it is on the right track.  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks, 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Ayden 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ 
>>>>>>> NCSG-PC mailing list 
>>>>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is> 
>>>>>>>    https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ 
>>>>>>> NCSG-PC mailing list 
>>>>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is> 
>>>>>>>    https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ 
>>>>>>> NCSG-PC mailing list 
>>>>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is> 
>>>>>>>    https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ 
>>>>> NCSG-PC mailing list 
>>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is> 
>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>>>>> 
>> _______________________________________________ NCSG-PC mailing list NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc> 
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Mon Mar  5 03:14:29 2018
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2018 20:14:29 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-PC] [new draft] NCSG Budget Comment
In-Reply-To: <AC4F6C5C-EDC3-4020-929F-307751834120@gmail.com>
References: <fszTbi7KngfWh_ihhjgri94y0Uc7Oc7pD_WcXW_PrpODCNOPHeGJMP6RC_cfAp9BUOAfuD5xeH1cFwokeX9pjp_b6alZlN7TOHv3N6BEYe4=@ferdeline.com>
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 <CABDXvWpUQNT4upbdySp-es6dhTcOvBndEitxn7AF3+d3qh0esQ@mail.gmail.com>
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 <CAH5sThm9Sax1AZx68gUUCUNt=bENXw+_3qOiJNEjvVvcK0wSyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <cb90b9c0-017f-82f8-f97c-6360ad9d8caa@mpicc.de>
 <44-D6AvMFzftNlIHjJo_HsG4iN-mMnqaopqYSDcW5fcSyLRblH7bRI7CQ5Z4G3_9CtsQfXMvK3QptJ6Q0BpFVPDn0IlGtCiKcK914IOnr9Y=@ferdeline.com>
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 <CAN1qJvAVUUG7+8dSMt6_qrHYe6smNhOscfXQJMyBHXUghztncg@mail.gmail.com>
 <83de7e69-e345-7428-c78e-8569f656df2c@kathykleiman.com>
 <AC4F6C5C-EDC3-4020-929F-307751834120@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <de997607-06b4-e2e4-8bb3-668fa75813ee@mail.utoronto.ca>


I think this is a great comment.? I caught a few grammaticals, and I 
added a proposal on the paragraph 19 which Rafik highlighted.? I think 
it is reasonable to ask for better data on staff travel, I just think 
comparing their digs to ours is a bit loaded....sorry to make you all 
look at an edit this late in the game.? Here is what I proposed:

I agree with Ayden that this is annoying, but I think it does not sound 
dignified....or whining. I think we have a really exposed flank here 
too.....some of our members work for organizations/institutions and may 
be receiving top-ups or percs that we are unaware of. So I think we 
should be cautious. I would remove all but the last line [It is very 
hard to understand from the budget how much ICANN spends on staff 
travel, but we suspect it is a sizeable figure which could be 
comfortably trimmed.]and add "As civil society, we believe it is 
extremely important for the ICANN MS model that we have good 
representation at ICANN meetings, and that our members are responsible 
with the funds they utilize for travel. Many of our members are putting 
many hours of work each week purely as volunteers, and they have no 
organization to top up travel expenses. We try to hold our members to 
high standards of transparency and accountability, and would appreciate 
the ability to compare our spending on travel to that of ICANN the 
organization. Better data on these costs would also help us understand 
the impact of our own usage of staff time."

cheers Stephanie

On 2018-03-04 11:07, Martin Pablo Silva Valent wrote:
> I already expressed my support weeks ago on the full text as well, but 
> will repeat it just in case.
>
> Cheers,
> Mart?n.
>
>> On 4 Mar 2018, at 10:53, Kathy Kleiman <kathy at kathykleiman.com 
>> <mailto:kathy at kathykleiman.com>> wrote:
>>
>> +1. Thoughtful, well-written and well-reasoned comment. I think it 
>> hits the nail on the head with this -- /"At the same time, we see no 
>> attempts to address the larger structural issues to do with growing 
>> personnel costs and an extraordinary spend on professional services."
>> /
>>
>> Great tx to Ayden for drafting, and all who edited.
>>
>> Best, Kathy
>>
>> On 3/4/2018 7:29 AM, farzaneh badii wrote:
>>> I support the submission of this public comment.
>>>
>>> Thank you Ayden for drafting it.
>>>
>>> Farzaneh
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 6:35 AM, Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com 
>>> <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     I no longer know what the status of this comment is, but I'm
>>>     crossing it off my to-do list and will no longer track whether
>>>     it is submitted or not (nor do I care anymore). It's been on our
>>>     mailing list for some seven weeks and I need to focus on prep
>>>     for the IFF and ICANN61 now.
>>>
>>>     Regards,
>>>
>>>     Ayden
>>>
>>>
>>>     ??????? Original Message ???????
>>>     On 3 March 2018 3:17 PM, Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com
>>>     <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>     Thanks very much, Tanya-
>>>>
>>>>     Rafik, are we able to?submit this comment now?
>>>>
>>>>     Best, Ayden
>>>>
>>>>     Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 21:21, Dr. Tatiana Tropina
>>>>     <t.tropina at mpicc.de <mailto:t.tropina at mpicc.de>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>     All, am fine with the comment - you have my approval for
>>>>>     submission and BIG BIG thanks to Ayden for holding the pen and
>>>>>     his tireless work on this. Thank you so much, Ayden.
>>>>>
>>>>>     Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>>     Tanya
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     On 01/03/18 06:59, Rafik Dammak wrote:
>>>>>>     Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     reading and comparing the related paragraphs in council and
>>>>>>     NCSG comments, ours seems simpler and the main part is
>>>>>>     basically about the assessment and evaluation of the programs
>>>>>>     as discussed before. I won't go into semantics but I believe
>>>>>>     we are taking the simple position of evaluation of the
>>>>>>     programs for now before making any decision.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     the comment is in good shape too for submission and not
>>>>>>     critical comments pending there. @Ayden can you give another
>>>>>>     look for clean-up
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Asking all PC members to review, help for proof-reading in
>>>>>>     next day so we can submit before the public comment deadline.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Best,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Rafik
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     2018-02-26 19:12 GMT+09:00 Ayden F?rdeline
>>>>>>     <icann at ferdeline.com <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         Thanks Arsene, I think we are expressing the same
>>>>>>         sentiment albeit diplomatically, however I will allow
>>>>>>         Rafik as PC Chair to mediate and resolve this one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         Best wishes, Ayden
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         ??????? Original Message ???????
>>>>>>         On 26 February 2018 11:10 AM, Ars?ne Tungali <
>>>>>>         arsenebaguma at gmail.com <mailto:arsenebaguma at gmail.com>>
>>>>>>         wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         May I suggest something like: "We do not support the
>>>>>>>         current suggested harsh cut on these programs but we
>>>>>>>         request an assessment before any such decision can be
>>>>>>>         taken". This is what i would like to see there. I am not
>>>>>>>         that good in English so would suggest a rephrasing so it
>>>>>>>         means this for me. If what is written there is the same
>>>>>>>         as what i am sugesting, then fine with me. The current
>>>>>>>         language on that one sentence is confusing for me.
>>>>>>>         And i will leave this here for you guys to decide as a
>>>>>>>         group.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         Thank you,
>>>>>>>         Arsene
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         ------------------------
>>>>>>>         **Ars?ne Tungali* <http://about.me/ArseneTungali>*
>>>>>>>         Co-Founder & Executive Director, /Rudi international
>>>>>>>         <http://www.rudiinternational.org/> /,
>>>>>>>         CEO,/Smart Services Sarl <http://www.smart-serv.info/>/,
>>>>>>>         /Mabingwa Forum <http://www.mabingwa-forum.com/>/
>>>>>>>         Tel: +243 993810967 <tel:+243%20993%20810%20967>
>>>>>>>         GPG: 523644A0
>>>>>>>         _Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo_
>>>>>>>         2015 Mandela Washington Felllow
>>>>>>>         <http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html>
>>>>>>>         (YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF Brazil
>>>>>>>         <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/igf-ambassadors-programme/Past-Ambassadors>
>>>>>>>         & Mexico
>>>>>>>         <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/Current-Ambassadors>)
>>>>>>>         - AFRISIG 2016
>>>>>>>         <http://afrisig.org/afrisig-2016/class-of-2016/> -
>>>>>>>         Blogger <http://tungali.blogspot.com/>- ICANN's GNSO
>>>>>>>         Council
>>>>>>>         <https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm>Member.//AFRINIC
>>>>>>>         Fellow //( Mauritius
>>>>>>>         <http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/1907-afrinic-25-fellowship-winners>)/-
>>>>>>>         /IGFSA Member <http://www.igfsa.org/>- Internet
>>>>>>>         Governance - Internet Freedom. //
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         Check the /2016 State of Internet Freedom in DRC/ report
>>>>>>>         (English <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=234>) and (French
>>>>>>>         <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=242>)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         2018-02-26 12:04 GMT+02:00 Ayden F?rdeline
>>>>>>>         <icann at ferdeline.com <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>             I feel like I'm responding to a carbon copy of
>>>>>>>             Martin's comment - so my answer remains the same!
>>>>>>>             :-) The dictionary definition of 'rightsizing' is to
>>>>>>>             "convert (something) to an appropriate or optimum
>>>>>>>             size." That's what we are saying, and I think it is
>>>>>>>             apparent if read in the context of the entire
>>>>>>>             paragraph and not that one sentence which has been
>>>>>>>             extracted.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>             Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>             Ayden
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>             ??????? Original Message ???????
>>>>>>>             On 26 February 2018 10:19 AM, Ars?ne Tungali
>>>>>>>             <arsenebaguma at gmail.com
>>>>>>>             <mailto:arsenebaguma at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>             I believe this is the section that is problematic
>>>>>>>>             in my view and needs to be rephrased: "/We support
>>>>>>>>             the rightsizing of the fellowship and NextGen
>>>>>>>>             programmes/. " It means for me that we support the
>>>>>>>>             fact that those programs are cut the way it is
>>>>>>>>             suggested in the budget. I don't think we have
>>>>>>>>             consensus on this and we should not support, as a
>>>>>>>>             SG, the way these programs have been reduced in
>>>>>>>>             number (by half or so). I may be wrong though :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>             I think what we encourage, and what we have
>>>>>>>>             agreement on, is the need for an assessment on the
>>>>>>>>             effectiveneess of the program and only after that
>>>>>>>>             assessment, we can agree on the right action to
>>>>>>>>             take on it. This can lead to a cut in number of
>>>>>>>>             attendees or anything else but we cannot say that
>>>>>>>>             at this moment, before that professional assessment
>>>>>>>>             is done. And I believe that's what we pushed for at
>>>>>>>>             Council level.
>>>>>>>>             Other than that, i fully support the submission of
>>>>>>>>             this comment and would like to thank Ayden and
>>>>>>>>             everyone for their participation. After reading the
>>>>>>>>             comment, it captures everything we discussed and
>>>>>>>>             captures what we stand for. As i always say, this
>>>>>>>>             is a good informational piece as well for us.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>             ------------------------
>>>>>>>>             * *Ars?ne Tungali* <http://about.me/ArseneTungali>*
>>>>>>>>             Co-Founder & Executive Director, /Rudi
>>>>>>>>             international <http://www.rudiinternational.org/> /,
>>>>>>>>             CEO,/Smart Services Sarl
>>>>>>>>             <http://www.smart-serv.info/>/, /Mabingwa Forum
>>>>>>>>             <http://www.mabingwa-forum.com/>/
>>>>>>>>             Tel: +243 993810967 <tel:+243%20993%20810%20967>
>>>>>>>>             GPG: 523644A0
>>>>>>>>             _Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo_
>>>>>>>>             2015 Mandela Washington Felllow
>>>>>>>>             <http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html>
>>>>>>>>             (YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF Brazil
>>>>>>>>             <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/igf-ambassadors-programme/Past-Ambassadors>
>>>>>>>>             & Mexico
>>>>>>>>             <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/Current-Ambassadors>)
>>>>>>>>             - AFRISIG 2016
>>>>>>>>             <http://afrisig.org/afrisig-2016/class-of-2016/>-
>>>>>>>>             Blogger <http://tungali.blogspot.com/>- ICANN's
>>>>>>>>             GNSO Council
>>>>>>>>             <https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm>Member.//AFRINIC
>>>>>>>>             Fellow //( Mauritius
>>>>>>>>             <http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/1907-afrinic-25-fellowship-winners>)/-
>>>>>>>>             /IGFSA Member <http://www.igfsa.org/>- Internet
>>>>>>>>             Governance - Internet Freedom. //
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>             Check the /2016 State of Internet Freedom in DRC/
>>>>>>>>             report ( English <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=234>)
>>>>>>>>             and ( French <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=242>)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>             2018-02-22 6:42 GMT+02:00 Martin Pablo Silva Valent
>>>>>>>>             <mpsilvavalent at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>             <mailto:mpsilvavalent at gmail.com>>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 Hi all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 Is all good for me, except for the same part I
>>>>>>>>                 opposed at council level. I do not support the
>>>>>>>>                 downsizing of the fellowship and nextgen by a
>>>>>>>>                 blind cut with no metrics and debate to balance
>>>>>>>>                 it out.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 If that is changed slightly like you did for
>>>>>>>>                 the council to change that part, I will fully
>>>>>>>>                 support.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 ?Cheers,
>>>>>>>>                 Martin
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 On 21 Feb 2018 21:22, "Rafik Dammak"
>>>>>>>>                 <rafik.dammak at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>                 <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                     Thanks Ayden for the revisions,
>>>>>>>>                     I want to ask all PC members to review asap
>>>>>>>>                     the draft for endorsment, the deadline for
>>>>>>>>                     submission is 2 weeks away and just before
>>>>>>>>                     PR meeting.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                     Best,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                     Rafik
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                     2018-02-22 9:14 GMT+09:00 Ayden F?rdeline
>>>>>>>>                     <icann at ferdeline.com
>>>>>>>>                     <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                         Dear all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                         I have revised the proposed NCSG
>>>>>>>>                         comment on the FY19 budget:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                         https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tBia4z5QQFGz9vFUQUkS0lbZNqU6C5n4pyUmlH3m8e8/edit?usp=sharing
>>>>>>>>                         <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tBia4z5QQFGz9vFUQUkS0lbZNqU6C5n4pyUmlH3m8e8/edit?usp=sharing>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                         It has not received very many edits or
>>>>>>>>                         comments just yet. I hope it is on the
>>>>>>>>                         right track.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                         Thanks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                         Ayden
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                         ______________________________
>>>>>>>>                         _________________
>>>>>>>>                         NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>>>>>                         NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>>>>>                         <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>>>>>>                         https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>>>>>>                         <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                     ______________________________
>>>>>>>>                     _________________
>>>>>>>>                     NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>>>>>                     NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>>>>>                     <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>>>>>>                     https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>>>>>>                     <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 ______________________________ _________________
>>>>>>>>                 NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>>>>>                 NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>>>>>                 <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>>>>>>                 https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>>>>>>                 <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         ______________________________ _________________
>>>>>>         NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>>>         NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>>>>         https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>>>>         <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>>>     NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>>>     NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is  <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>>>>     https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc  <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>>>>>>
>>>     _______________________________________________ NCSG-PC mailing
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From icann at ferdeline.com  Mon Mar  5 06:49:06 2018
From: icann at ferdeline.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ayden_F=C3=A9rdeline?=)
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2018 23:49:06 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-PC] [new draft] NCSG Budget Comment
In-Reply-To: <de997607-06b4-e2e4-8bb3-668fa75813ee@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <fszTbi7KngfWh_ihhjgri94y0Uc7Oc7pD_WcXW_PrpODCNOPHeGJMP6RC_cfAp9BUOAfuD5xeH1cFwokeX9pjp_b6alZlN7TOHv3N6BEYe4=@ferdeline.com>
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 <CAN1qJvAVUUG7+8dSMt6_qrHYe6smNhOscfXQJMyBHXUghztncg@mail.gmail.com>
 <83de7e69-e345-7428-c78e-8569f656df2c@kathykleiman.com>
 <AC4F6C5C-EDC3-4020-929F-307751834120@gmail.com>
 <de997607-06b4-e2e4-8bb3-668fa75813ee@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <RRtaUxOwNRRQ5BeYvZPf48Y17MwtRtv2ZG3qKs0qNH1xVNFAzUa8mSNmJeIZLopA7tfR6hy2zpA2mUw-Du1a6E-8z3v9SF64lKzSSgCcwxY=@ferdeline.com>

Thanks Stephanie, I think that is a sensible edit.

Best, Ayden

Sent from ProtonMail Mobile

On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 02:14, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:

> I think this is a great comment.  I caught a few grammaticals, and I added a proposal on the paragraph 19 which Rafik highlighted.  I think it is reasonable to ask for better data on staff travel, I just think comparing their digs to ours is a bit loaded....sorry to make you all look at an edit this late in the game.  Here is what I proposed:
>
> I agree with Ayden that this is annoying, but I think it does not sound dignified....or whining. I think we have a really exposed flank here too.....some of our members work for organizations/institutions and may be receiving top-ups or percs that we are unaware of. So I think we should be cautious. I would remove all but the last line [It is very hard to understand from the budget how much ICANN spends on staff travel, but we suspect it is a sizeable figure which could be comfortably trimmed.]  and add "As civil society, we believe it is extremely important for the ICANN MS model that we have good representation at ICANN meetings, and that our members are responsible with the funds they utilize for travel. Many of our members are putting many hours of work each week purely as volunteers, and they have no organization to top up travel expenses. We try to hold our members to high standards of transparency and accountability, and would appreciate the ability to compare our spending on travel to that of ICANN the organization. Better data on these costs would also help us understand the impact of our own usage of staff time."
>
> cheers Stephanie
>
> On 2018-03-04 11:07, Martin Pablo Silva Valent wrote:
>
>> I already expressed my support weeks ago on the full text as well, but will repeat it just in case.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Mart?n.
>>
>>> On 4 Mar 2018, at 10:53, Kathy Kleiman <kathy at kathykleiman.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> +1. Thoughtful, well-written and well-reasoned comment. I think it hits the nail on the head with this -- "At the same time, we see no attempts to address the larger structural issues to do with growing personnel costs and an extraordinary spend on professional services."
>>>
>>> Great tx to Ayden for drafting, and all who edited.
>>>
>>> Best, Kathy
>>>
>>> On 3/4/2018 7:29 AM, farzaneh badii wrote:
>>>
>>>> I support the submission of this public comment.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you Ayden for drafting it.
>>>>
>>>> Farzaneh
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 6:35 AM, Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I no longer know what the status of this comment is, but I'm crossing it off my to-do list and will no longer track whether it is submitted or not (nor do I care anymore). It's been on our mailing list for some seven weeks and I need to focus on prep for the IFF and ICANN61 now.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ayden
>>>>>
>>>>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>>>>> On 3 March 2018 3:17 PM, Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks very much, Tanya-
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rafik, are we able to submit this comment now?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best, Ayden
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 21:21, Dr. Tatiana Tropina <t.tropina at mpicc.de> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All, am fine with the comment - you have my approval for submission and BIG BIG thanks to Ayden for holding the pen and his tireless work on this. Thank you so much, Ayden.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tanya
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 01/03/18 06:59, Rafik Dammak wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> reading and comparing the related paragraphs in council and NCSG comments, ours seems simpler and the main part is basically about the assessment and evaluation of the programs as discussed before. I won't go into semantics but I believe we are taking the simple position of evaluation of the programs for now before making any decision.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the comment is in good shape too for submission and not critical comments pending there. @Ayden can you give another look for clean-up
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Asking all PC members to review, help for proof-reading in next day so we can submit before the public comment deadline.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Rafik
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2018-02-26 19:12 GMT+09:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks Arsene, I think we are expressing the same sentiment albeit diplomatically, however I will allow Rafik as PC Chair to mediate and resolve this one.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best wishes, Ayden
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>>>>>>>>> On 26 February 2018 11:10 AM, Ars?ne Tungali < arsenebaguma at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> May I suggest something like: "We do not support the current suggested harsh cut on these programs but we request an assessment before any such decision can be taken". This is what i would like to see there. I am not that good in English so would suggest a rephrasing so it means this for me. If what is written there is the same as what i am sugesting, then fine with me. The current language on that one sentence is confusing for me.
>>>>>>>>>> And i will leave this here for you guys to decide as a group.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>>> Arsene
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> *     [Ars?ne Tungali](http://about.me/ArseneTungali)*
>>>>>>>>>> Co-Founder & Executive Director,       [Rudi international](http://www.rudiinternational.org/),
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> CEO,      [Smart Services Sarl](http://www.smart-serv.info/),      [Mabingwa Forum](http://www.mabingwa-forum.com/)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Tel: [+243 993810967](tel:+243%20993%20810%20967)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> GPG: 523644A0
>>>>>>>>>> Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> [2015 Mandela Washington Felllow](http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html)(YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF     [Brazil](http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/igf-ambassadors-programme/Past-Ambassadors)&     [Mexico](http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/Current-Ambassadors)) -     [AFRISIG 2016](http://afrisig.org/afrisig-2016/class-of-2016/)-     [Blogger](http://tungali.blogspot.com/)- ICANN's     [GNSO Council](https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm)Member. AFRINIC Fellow (     [Mauritius](http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/1907-afrinic-25-fellowship-winners)) -     [IGFSA Member](http://www.igfsa.org/)- Internet Governance - Internet Freedom.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Check the 2016 State of Internet Freedom in DRC report (     [English](http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=234)) and (     [French](http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=242))
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2018-02-26 12:04 GMT+02:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I feel like I'm responding to a carbon copy of Martin's comment - so my answer remains the same! :-) The dictionary definition of 'rightsizing' is to "convert (something) to an appropriate or optimum size." That's what we are saying, and I think it is apparent if read in the context of the entire paragraph and not that one sentence which has been extracted.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ayden
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>>>>>>>>>>> On 26 February 2018 10:19 AM, Ars?ne Tungali < arsenebaguma at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe this is the section that is problematic in my view and needs to be rephrased: "We support the rightsizing of the fellowship and NextGen programmes." It means for me that we support the fact that those programs are cut the way it is suggested in the budget. I don't think we have consensus on this and we should not support, as a SG, the way these programs have been reduced in number (by half or so). I may be wrong though :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I think what we encourage, and what we have agreement on, is the need for an assessment on the effectiveneess of the program and only after that assessment, we can agree on the right action to take on it. This can lead to a cut in number of attendees or anything else but we cannot say that at this moment, before that professional assessment is done. And I believe that's what we pushed for at Council level.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Other than that, i fully support the submission of this comment and would like to thank Ayden and everyone for their participation. After reading the comment, it captures everything we discussed and captures what we stand for. As i always say, this is a good informational piece as well for us.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>> *     [Ars?ne Tungali](http://about.me/ArseneTungali)*   Co-Founder & Executive Director,    [Rudi international](http://www.rudiinternational.org/),
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> CEO,      [Smart Services Sarl](http://www.smart-serv.info/),      [Mabingwa Forum](http://www.mabingwa-forum.com/)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tel: [+243 993810967](tel:+243%20993%20810%20967)
>>>>>>>>>>>> GPG: 523644A0
>>>>>>>>>>>> Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> [2015 Mandela Washington Felllow](http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html)(YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF     [Brazil](http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/igf-ambassadors-programme/Past-Ambassadors)&     [Mexico](http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/Current-Ambassadors)) -     [AFRISIG 2016](http://afrisig.org/afrisig-2016/class-of-2016/)-     [Blogger](http://tungali.blogspot.com/)- ICANN's     [GNSO Council](https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm)Member. AFRINIC Fellow (     [Mauritius](http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/1907-afrinic-25-fellowship-winners)) -     [IGFSA Member](http://www.igfsa.org/)- Internet Governance - Internet Freedom.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Check the 2016 State of Internet Freedom in DRC report (     [English](http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=234)) and (     [French](http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=242))
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2018-02-22 6:42 GMT+02:00 Martin Pablo Silva Valent <mpsilvavalent at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is all good for me, except for the same part I opposed at council level. I do not support the downsizing of the fellowship and nextgen by a blind cut with no metrics and debate to balance it out.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If that is changed slightly like you did for the council to change that part, I will fully support.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Martin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 21 Feb 2018 21:22, "Rafik Dammak" <rafik.dammak at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Ayden for the revisions,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I want to ask all PC members to review asap the draft for endorsment,  the deadline for submission is 2 weeks away and just before PR meeting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rafik
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2018-02-22 9:14 GMT+09:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have revised the proposed NCSG comment on the FY19 budget:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tBia4z5QQFGz9vFUQUkS0lbZNqU6C5n4pyUmlH3m8e8/edit?usp=sharing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It has not received very many edits or comments just yet. I hope it is on the right track.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ayden
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/ listinfo/ncsg-pc](https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/ listinfo/ncsg-pc](https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/ listinfo/ncsg-pc](https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________   NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>>>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ______________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _________________
>>>>>>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> listinfo/ncsg-pc](https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc)
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ NCSG-PC mailing list NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>
>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
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From rafik.dammak at gmail.com  Mon Mar  5 07:06:29 2018
From: rafik.dammak at gmail.com (Rafik Dammak)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2018 14:06:29 +0900
Subject: [NCSG-PC] [new draft] NCSG Budget Comment
In-Reply-To: <RRtaUxOwNRRQ5BeYvZPf48Y17MwtRtv2ZG3qKs0qNH1xVNFAzUa8mSNmJeIZLopA7tfR6hy2zpA2mUw-Du1a6E-8z3v9SF64lKzSSgCcwxY=@ferdeline.com>
References: <fszTbi7KngfWh_ihhjgri94y0Uc7Oc7pD_WcXW_PrpODCNOPHeGJMP6RC_cfAp9BUOAfuD5xeH1cFwokeX9pjp_b6alZlN7TOHv3N6BEYe4=@ferdeline.com>
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 <CAN1qJvAVUUG7+8dSMt6_qrHYe6smNhOscfXQJMyBHXUghztncg@mail.gmail.com>
 <83de7e69-e345-7428-c78e-8569f656df2c@kathykleiman.com>
 <AC4F6C5C-EDC3-4020-929F-307751834120@gmail.com>
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Message-ID: <CAH5sThn4mE9YhVUBDToC9DqkcqCsCdt3FSgYv6H0LUFVz+BGpw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I will edit the document with the suggestion from Stephanie. I will send
the clean version attached to the PC list for reference.
with support from Ayden, Farzaneh, Stephanie, Martin, Tatiana, Poncelet,
Arsene, Farell and myself, and hearing no objection, I think we have a
consensus about submitting the draft as NCSG comment. I will do so later on
today.
Thanks, everyone and thanks to Ayden for leading this effort, much
appreciated.

Best,

Rafik
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From rafik.dammak at gmail.com  Mon Mar  5 13:00:42 2018
From: rafik.dammak at gmail.com (Rafik Dammak)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2018 20:00:42 +0900
Subject: [NCSG-PC] [new draft] NCSG Budget Comment
In-Reply-To: <CAH5sThn4mE9YhVUBDToC9DqkcqCsCdt3FSgYv6H0LUFVz+BGpw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fszTbi7KngfWh_ihhjgri94y0Uc7Oc7pD_WcXW_PrpODCNOPHeGJMP6RC_cfAp9BUOAfuD5xeH1cFwokeX9pjp_b6alZlN7TOHv3N6BEYe4=@ferdeline.com>
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 <CAN1qJvAVUUG7+8dSMt6_qrHYe6smNhOscfXQJMyBHXUghztncg@mail.gmail.com>
 <83de7e69-e345-7428-c78e-8569f656df2c@kathykleiman.com>
 <AC4F6C5C-EDC3-4020-929F-307751834120@gmail.com>
 <de997607-06b4-e2e4-8bb3-668fa75813ee@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <RRtaUxOwNRRQ5BeYvZPf48Y17MwtRtv2ZG3qKs0qNH1xVNFAzUa8mSNmJeIZLopA7tfR6hy2zpA2mUw-Du1a6E-8z3v9SF64lKzSSgCcwxY=@ferdeline.com>
 <CAH5sThn4mE9YhVUBDToC9DqkcqCsCdt3FSgYv6H0LUFVz+BGpw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH5sThn=jpHBmvouH2b9uYOs9oqX0wyNaMRWJjvxQVxYXyWERA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I submitted the comment, please find attached the version sent.

Best,

Rafik

2018-03-05 14:06 GMT+09:00 Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com>:

> Hi all,
>
> I will edit the document with the suggestion from Stephanie. I will send
> the clean version attached to the PC list for reference.
> with support from Ayden, Farzaneh, Stephanie, Martin, Tatiana, Poncelet,
> Arsene, Farell and myself, and hearing no objection, I think we have a
> consensus about submitting the draft as NCSG comment. I will do so later on
> today.
> Thanks, everyone and thanks to Ayden for leading this effort, much
> appreciated.
>
> Best,
>
> Rafik
>
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Mon Mar  5 13:26:56 2018
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2018 06:26:56 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-PC] [new draft] NCSG Budget Comment
In-Reply-To: <CAH5sThn=jpHBmvouH2b9uYOs9oqX0wyNaMRWJjvxQVxYXyWERA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fszTbi7KngfWh_ihhjgri94y0Uc7Oc7pD_WcXW_PrpODCNOPHeGJMP6RC_cfAp9BUOAfuD5xeH1cFwokeX9pjp_b6alZlN7TOHv3N6BEYe4=@ferdeline.com>
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 <44-D6AvMFzftNlIHjJo_HsG4iN-mMnqaopqYSDcW5fcSyLRblH7bRI7CQ5Z4G3_9CtsQfXMvK3QptJ6Q0BpFVPDn0IlGtCiKcK914IOnr9Y=@ferdeline.com>
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 <CAN1qJvAVUUG7+8dSMt6_qrHYe6smNhOscfXQJMyBHXUghztncg@mail.gmail.com>
 <83de7e69-e345-7428-c78e-8569f656df2c@kathykleiman.com>
 <AC4F6C5C-EDC3-4020-929F-307751834120@gmail.com>
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 <RRtaUxOwNRRQ5BeYvZPf48Y17MwtRtv2ZG3qKs0qNH1xVNFAzUa8mSNmJeIZLopA7tfR6hy2zpA2mUw-Du1a6E-8z3v9SF64lKzSSgCcwxY=@ferdeline.com>
 <CAH5sThn4mE9YhVUBDToC9DqkcqCsCdt3FSgYv6H0LUFVz+BGpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH5sThn=jpHBmvouH2b9uYOs9oqX0wyNaMRWJjvxQVxYXyWERA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9649bcdb-859e-d8f3-ceeb-b6310c7641ee@mail.utoronto.ca>

Thanks Rafik, and many thanks to Ayden for the weeks of work on this and 
on the GNSO Council budget comment.

Stephanie

On 2018-03-05 06:00, Rafik Dammak wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I submitted the comment, please find attached the version sent.
>
> Best,
>
> Rafik
>
> 2018-03-05 14:06 GMT+09:00 Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com 
> <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com>>:
>
>     Hi all,
>
>     I will edit the document with the suggestion from Stephanie. I
>     will send the clean version attached to the PC list for reference.
>     with support from Ayden, Farzaneh, Stephanie, Martin, Tatiana,
>     Poncelet, Arsene, Farell and myself, and hearing no objection, I
>     think we have a consensus about submitting the draft as NCSG
>     comment. I will do so later on today.
>     Thanks, everyone and thanks to Ayden for leading this effort, much
>     appreciated.
>
>     Best,
>
>     Rafik
>
>
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Mon Mar  5 14:55:40 2018
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2018 07:55:40 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-PC] New version of the Article 29 letter
Message-ID: <be5322e9-b73f-9140-d595-09a2d4009fdc@mail.utoronto.ca>

Colleagues, I rewrote the Art 29 letter by adding bits of analysis on 
the new GDPR model ICANN released on Feb 28.? Please find attached, in 
markup.

Cheers Stephanie

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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Mon Mar  5 14:59:47 2018
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2018 07:59:47 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-PC] New version of the Article 29 letter
In-Reply-To: <be5322e9-b73f-9140-d595-09a2d4009fdc@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <be5322e9-b73f-9140-d595-09a2d4009fdc@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <1a6b05b9-1a16-bd98-d3d1-28020d0aa6ed@mail.utoronto.ca>

My apologies, upon checking I realized I had attached an earlier draft.? 
This is the correct final draft.

Stephanie

On 2018-03-05 07:55, Stephanie Perrin wrote:
>
> Colleagues, I rewrote the Art 29 letter by adding bits of analysis on 
> the new GDPR model ICANN released on Feb 28.? Please find attached, in 
> markup.
>
> Cheers Stephanie
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
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From farzaneh.badii at gmail.com  Mon Mar  5 16:58:40 2018
From: farzaneh.badii at gmail.com (farzaneh badii)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2018 09:58:40 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-PC] New version of the Article 29 letter
In-Reply-To: <1a6b05b9-1a16-bd98-d3d1-28020d0aa6ed@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <be5322e9-b73f-9140-d595-09a2d4009fdc@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <1a6b05b9-1a16-bd98-d3d1-28020d0aa6ed@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <CAN1qJvCPKTEFhv51G3gXqk4qokv=bF25ZZ1sUOoTPZa+hijrYQ@mail.gmail.com>

This is fine Stephanie thank you very much excellent letter. I need to send
this very soon PC members since you weighed in already on the previous one
I suggest we just go ahead and submit this by the end of today.

Farzaneh

On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 7:59 AM, Stephanie Perrin <
stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:

> My apologies, upon checking I realized I had attached an earlier draft.
> This is the correct final draft.
>
> Stephanie
> On 2018-03-05 07:55, Stephanie Perrin wrote:
>
> Colleagues, I rewrote the Art 29 letter by adding bits of analysis on the
> new GDPR model ICANN released on Feb 28.  Please find attached, in markup.
>
> Cheers Stephanie
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing listNCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.ishttps://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
>
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From rafik.dammak at gmail.com  Mon Mar  5 17:18:11 2018
From: rafik.dammak at gmail.com (Rafik Dammak)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2018 00:18:11 +0900
Subject: [NCSG-PC] New version of the Article 29 letter
In-Reply-To: <CAN1qJvCPKTEFhv51G3gXqk4qokv=bF25ZZ1sUOoTPZa+hijrYQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <be5322e9-b73f-9140-d595-09a2d4009fdc@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <1a6b05b9-1a16-bd98-d3d1-28020d0aa6ed@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAN1qJvCPKTEFhv51G3gXqk4qokv=bF25ZZ1sUOoTPZa+hijrYQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH5sThmnxbxtLWSz7_19uPDe2NUqqjbOvDO3rbOmBmG=0Liz5g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Farzaneh, Stephanie,


I could see changes as they were redline and  I think they are ok and
aligned with what was introduced during the last Friday webinar.
as mentioned, we already get support for the previous version and there is
no substantive change but the adjustment to the interim model, I think the
letter is ready for submission (just needs some formatting).

Best,

Rafik

2018-03-05 23:58 GMT+09:00 farzaneh badii <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com>:

> This is fine Stephanie thank you very much excellent letter. I need to
> send this very soon PC members since you weighed in already on the previous
> one I suggest we just go ahead and submit this by the end of today.
>
> Farzaneh
>
> On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 7:59 AM, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.
> utoronto.ca> wrote:
>
>> My apologies, upon checking I realized I had attached an earlier draft.
>> This is the correct final draft.
>>
>> Stephanie
>> On 2018-03-05 07:55, Stephanie Perrin wrote:
>>
>> Colleagues, I rewrote the Art 29 letter by adding bits of analysis on the
>> new GDPR model ICANN released on Feb 28.  Please find attached, in markup.
>>
>> Cheers Stephanie
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing listNCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.ishttps://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
>
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From farzaneh.badii at gmail.com  Mon Mar  5 18:07:30 2018
From: farzaneh.badii at gmail.com (farzaneh badii)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2018 11:07:30 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-PC] New version of the Article 29 letter
In-Reply-To: <CAH5sThmnxbxtLWSz7_19uPDe2NUqqjbOvDO3rbOmBmG=0Liz5g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <be5322e9-b73f-9140-d595-09a2d4009fdc@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <1a6b05b9-1a16-bd98-d3d1-28020d0aa6ed@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAN1qJvCPKTEFhv51G3gXqk4qokv=bF25ZZ1sUOoTPZa+hijrYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH5sThmnxbxtLWSz7_19uPDe2NUqqjbOvDO3rbOmBmG=0Liz5g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1qJvDHG_JtqZiyTkchA8J1VZE_xRP5RsiYGEM1XXEtKTb7MA@mail.gmail.com>

All

Here is the clean version which I will be sending very soon, in pdf format.

Farzaneh

On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 10:18 AM, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Farzaneh, Stephanie,
>
>
> I could see changes as they were redline and  I think they are ok and
> aligned with what was introduced during the last Friday webinar.
> as mentioned, we already get support for the previous version and there is
> no substantive change but the adjustment to the interim model, I think the
> letter is ready for submission (just needs some formatting).
>
> Best,
>
> Rafik
>
>
> 2018-03-05 23:58 GMT+09:00 farzaneh badii <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com>:
>
>> This is fine Stephanie thank you very much excellent letter. I need to
>> send this very soon PC members since you weighed in already on the previous
>> one I suggest we just go ahead and submit this by the end of today.
>>
>> Farzaneh
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 7:59 AM, Stephanie Perrin <
>> stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> My apologies, upon checking I realized I had attached an earlier draft.
>>> This is the correct final draft.
>>>
>>> Stephanie
>>> On 2018-03-05 07:55, Stephanie Perrin wrote:
>>>
>>> Colleagues, I rewrote the Art 29 letter by adding bits of analysis on
>>> the new GDPR model ICANN released on Feb 28.  Please find attached, in
>>> markup.
>>>
>>> Cheers Stephanie
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NCSG-PC mailing listNCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.ishttps://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>
>>
>
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From t.tropina at mpicc.de  Mon Mar  5 21:39:49 2018
From: t.tropina at mpicc.de (Dr. Tatiana Tropina)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2018 20:39:49 +0100
Subject: [NCSG-PC] New version of the Article 29 letter
In-Reply-To: <CAN1qJvDHG_JtqZiyTkchA8J1VZE_xRP5RsiYGEM1XXEtKTb7MA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <be5322e9-b73f-9140-d595-09a2d4009fdc@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <1a6b05b9-1a16-bd98-d3d1-28020d0aa6ed@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAN1qJvCPKTEFhv51G3gXqk4qokv=bF25ZZ1sUOoTPZa+hijrYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH5sThmnxbxtLWSz7_19uPDe2NUqqjbOvDO3rbOmBmG=0Liz5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN1qJvDHG_JtqZiyTkchA8J1VZE_xRP5RsiYGEM1XXEtKTb7MA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bb0ab5e3-811c-1c87-6175-2e55bcac2d15@mpicc.de>

Thanks a lot, Stephanie - this is an excellent letter. My full support.

Cheers,

Tanya


On 05/03/18 17:07, farzaneh badii wrote:
> All
>
> Here is the clean version which?I will be sending very soon, in pdf
> format.
>
> Farzaneh
>
> On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 10:18 AM, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com
> <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Hi Farzaneh, Stephanie,
>
>
>     I could see changes as they were redline and? I?think they are ok
>     and aligned with what was introduced during the last Friday webinar.
>     as mentioned, we already get support for the previous version and
>     there is no substantive change but the adjustment to the interim
>     model, I think the letter is ready for submission (just needs some
>     formatting).
>
>     Best,
>
>     Rafik
>
>
>     2018-03-05 23:58 GMT+09:00 farzaneh badii
>     <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com <mailto:farzaneh.badii at gmail.com>>:
>
>         This is fine Stephanie thank you very much excellent letter. I
>         need to send this very soon PC members since you weighed in
>         already on the previous one I suggest we just go ahead and
>         submit this by the end of today.?
>
>         Farzaneh
>
>         On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 7:59 AM, Stephanie Perrin
>         <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
>         <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>
>             My apologies, upon checking I realized I had attached an
>             earlier draft.? This is the correct final draft.
>
>             Stephanie
>
>             On 2018-03-05 07:55, Stephanie Perrin wrote:
>>
>>             Colleagues, I rewrote the Art 29 letter by adding bits of
>>             analysis on the new GDPR model ICANN released on Feb 28.?
>>             Please find attached, in markup.
>>
>>             Cheers Stephanie
>>
>>
>>             _______________________________________________
>>             NCSG-PC mailing list
>>             NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>             https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>             <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>
>             _______________________________________________
>             NCSG-PC mailing list
>             NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>             https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>             <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>
>
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         NCSG-PC mailing list
>         NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>         https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>         <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc

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From kathy at kathykleiman.com  Mon Mar  5 21:58:19 2018
From: kathy at kathykleiman.com (Kathy Kleiman)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2018 14:58:19 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-PC] New version of the Article 29 letter
In-Reply-To: <bb0ab5e3-811c-1c87-6175-2e55bcac2d15@mpicc.de>
References: <be5322e9-b73f-9140-d595-09a2d4009fdc@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <1a6b05b9-1a16-bd98-d3d1-28020d0aa6ed@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAN1qJvCPKTEFhv51G3gXqk4qokv=bF25ZZ1sUOoTPZa+hijrYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH5sThmnxbxtLWSz7_19uPDe2NUqqjbOvDO3rbOmBmG=0Liz5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN1qJvDHG_JtqZiyTkchA8J1VZE_xRP5RsiYGEM1XXEtKTb7MA@mail.gmail.com>
 <bb0ab5e3-811c-1c87-6175-2e55bcac2d15@mpicc.de>
Message-ID: <2a73b39d-0de9-3421-23df-d519d5445cd1@kathykleiman.com>

+1! - Kathy


On 3/5/2018 2:39 PM, Dr. Tatiana Tropina wrote:
>
> Thanks a lot, Stephanie - this is an excellent letter. My full support.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tanya
>
>
> On 05/03/18 17:07, farzaneh badii wrote:
>> All
>>
>> Here is the clean version which I will be sending very soon, in pdf 
>> format.
>>
>> Farzaneh
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 10:18 AM, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com 
>> <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Hi Farzaneh, Stephanie,
>>
>>
>>     I could see changes as they were redline and  I think they are ok
>>     and aligned with what was introduced during the last Friday webinar.
>>     as mentioned, we already get support for the previous version and
>>     there is no substantive change but the adjustment to the interim
>>     model, I think the letter is ready for submission (just needs
>>     some formatting).
>>
>>     Best,
>>
>>     Rafik
>>
>>
>>     2018-03-05 23:58 GMT+09:00 farzaneh badii
>>     <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com <mailto:farzaneh.badii at gmail.com>>:
>>
>>         This is fine Stephanie thank you very much excellent letter.
>>         I need to send this very soon PC members since you weighed in
>>         already on the previous one I suggest we just go ahead and
>>         submit this by the end of today.
>>
>>         Farzaneh
>>
>>         On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 7:59 AM, Stephanie Perrin
>>         <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
>>         <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>>
>>             My apologies, upon checking I realized I had attached an
>>             earlier draft.  This is the correct final draft.
>>
>>             Stephanie
>>
>>             On 2018-03-05 07:55, Stephanie Perrin wrote:
>>>
>>>             Colleagues, I rewrote the Art 29 letter by adding bits
>>>             of analysis on the new GDPR model ICANN released on Feb
>>>             28.  Please find attached, in markup.
>>>
>>>             Cheers Stephanie
>>>
>>>
>>>             _______________________________________________
>>>             NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>             NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>             https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>             <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>>             _______________________________________________ NCSG-PC
>>             mailing list NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>             <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>             https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>             <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc> 
>>
>>         _______________________________________________ NCSG-PC
>>         mailing list NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>         <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>         https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>         <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc> 
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
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From mpsilvavalent at gmail.com  Mon Mar  5 22:07:21 2018
From: mpsilvavalent at gmail.com (Martin Pablo Silva Valent)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2018 17:07:21 -0300
Subject: [NCSG-PC] New version of the Article 29 letter
In-Reply-To: <2a73b39d-0de9-3421-23df-d519d5445cd1@kathykleiman.com>
References: <be5322e9-b73f-9140-d595-09a2d4009fdc@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <1a6b05b9-1a16-bd98-d3d1-28020d0aa6ed@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAN1qJvCPKTEFhv51G3gXqk4qokv=bF25ZZ1sUOoTPZa+hijrYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH5sThmnxbxtLWSz7_19uPDe2NUqqjbOvDO3rbOmBmG=0Liz5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN1qJvDHG_JtqZiyTkchA8J1VZE_xRP5RsiYGEM1XXEtKTb7MA@mail.gmail.com>
 <bb0ab5e3-811c-1c87-6175-2e55bcac2d15@mpicc.de>
 <2a73b39d-0de9-3421-23df-d519d5445cd1@kathykleiman.com>
Message-ID: <2B480BA7-BD75-4305-B652-5DEEDD948AEB@gmail.com>

Stephanie, congrats and thanks for another amazing job well done!, I also express my support.

Cheers,
Mart?n

> On 5 Mar 2018, at 16:58, Kathy Kleiman <kathy at kathykleiman.com> wrote:
> 
> +1! - Kathy
> 
> On 3/5/2018 2:39 PM, Dr. Tatiana Tropina wrote:
>> Thanks a lot, Stephanie - this is an excellent letter. My full support.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Tanya 
>> 
>> On 05/03/18 17:07, farzaneh badii wrote:
>>> All
>>> 
>>> Here is the clean version which I will be sending very soon, in pdf format.
>>> 
>>> Farzaneh
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 10:18 AM, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> Hi Farzaneh, Stephanie,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I could see changes as they were redline and  I think they are ok and aligned with what was introduced during the last Friday webinar.
>>> as mentioned, we already get support for the previous version and there is no substantive change but the adjustment to the interim model, I think the letter is ready for submission (just needs some formatting).
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Rafik
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 2018-03-05 23:58 GMT+09:00 farzaneh badii <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com <mailto:farzaneh.badii at gmail.com>>:
>>> This is fine Stephanie thank you very much excellent letter. I need to send this very soon PC members since you weighed in already on the previous one I suggest we just go ahead and submit this by the end of today. 
>>> 
>>> Farzaneh
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 7:59 AM, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>>> My apologies, upon checking I realized I had attached an earlier draft.  This is the correct final draft. 
>>> 
>>> Stephanie
>>> On 2018-03-05 07:55, Stephanie Perrin wrote:
>>>> Colleagues, I rewrote the Art 29 letter by adding bits of analysis on the new GDPR model ICANN released on Feb 28.  Please find                                                 attached, in markup.
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers Stephanie
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>>> _______________________________________________ NCSG-PC mailing list NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>_______________________________________________ NCSG-PC mailing list NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc

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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Mon Mar  5 23:22:32 2018
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2018 16:22:32 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-PC] New version of the Article 29 letter
In-Reply-To: <bb0ab5e3-811c-1c87-6175-2e55bcac2d15@mpicc.de>
References: <be5322e9-b73f-9140-d595-09a2d4009fdc@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <1a6b05b9-1a16-bd98-d3d1-28020d0aa6ed@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAN1qJvCPKTEFhv51G3gXqk4qokv=bF25ZZ1sUOoTPZa+hijrYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH5sThmnxbxtLWSz7_19uPDe2NUqqjbOvDO3rbOmBmG=0Liz5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN1qJvDHG_JtqZiyTkchA8J1VZE_xRP5RsiYGEM1XXEtKTb7MA@mail.gmail.com>
 <bb0ab5e3-811c-1c87-6175-2e55bcac2d15@mpicc.de>
Message-ID: <20b6847f-3353-b652-ea39-ed30c775facd@mail.utoronto.ca>

Thanks everyone, trying to find the correct emails for the two Chairs, 
not so easy....

cheers SP

On 2018-03-05 14:39, Dr. Tatiana Tropina wrote:
>
> Thanks a lot, Stephanie - this is an excellent letter. My full support.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tanya
>
>
> On 05/03/18 17:07, farzaneh badii wrote:
>> All
>>
>> Here is the clean version which?I will be sending very soon, in pdf 
>> format.
>>
>> Farzaneh
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 10:18 AM, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com 
>> <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Hi Farzaneh, Stephanie,
>>
>>
>>     I could see changes as they were redline and? I?think they are ok
>>     and aligned with what was introduced during the last Friday webinar.
>>     as mentioned, we already get support for the previous version and
>>     there is no substantive change but the adjustment to the interim
>>     model, I think the letter is ready for submission (just needs
>>     some formatting).
>>
>>     Best,
>>
>>     Rafik
>>
>>
>>     2018-03-05 23:58 GMT+09:00 farzaneh badii
>>     <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com <mailto:farzaneh.badii at gmail.com>>:
>>
>>         This is fine Stephanie thank you very much excellent letter.
>>         I need to send this very soon PC members since you weighed in
>>         already on the previous one I suggest we just go ahead and
>>         submit this by the end of today.
>>
>>         Farzaneh
>>
>>         On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 7:59 AM, Stephanie Perrin
>>         <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
>>         <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>>
>>             My apologies, upon checking I realized I had attached an
>>             earlier draft.? This is the correct final draft.
>>
>>             Stephanie
>>
>>             On 2018-03-05 07:55, Stephanie Perrin wrote:
>>>
>>>             Colleagues, I rewrote the Art 29 letter by adding bits
>>>             of analysis on the new GDPR model ICANN released on Feb
>>>             28.? Please find attached, in markup.
>>>
>>>             Cheers Stephanie
>>>
>>>
>>>             _______________________________________________
>>>             NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>             NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is  <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>             https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc  <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>>
>>             _______________________________________________
>>             NCSG-PC mailing list
>>             NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>             https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>             <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>>
>>
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         NCSG-PC mailing list
>>         NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>         https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>         <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
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From icann at ferdeline.com  Tue Mar  6 00:00:32 2018
From: icann at ferdeline.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ayden_F=C3=A9rdeline?=)
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2018 17:00:32 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-PC] New version of the Article 29 letter
In-Reply-To: <20b6847f-3353-b652-ea39-ed30c775facd@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <be5322e9-b73f-9140-d595-09a2d4009fdc@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <1a6b05b9-1a16-bd98-d3d1-28020d0aa6ed@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAN1qJvCPKTEFhv51G3gXqk4qokv=bF25ZZ1sUOoTPZa+hijrYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH5sThmnxbxtLWSz7_19uPDe2NUqqjbOvDO3rbOmBmG=0Liz5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN1qJvDHG_JtqZiyTkchA8J1VZE_xRP5RsiYGEM1XXEtKTb7MA@mail.gmail.com>
 <bb0ab5e3-811c-1c87-6175-2e55bcac2d15@mpicc.de>
 <20b6847f-3353-b652-ea39-ed30c775facd@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <wDCIfc1WlFwFy86ee-mMZleAPcDdvQhmJtU_WzLG-otMursngq0BDMEXoUrLCjkhNK2QXSpwIEb4I6je_fFwU9zI184JNHxnSq8tPxr1mQo=@ferdeline.com>

Looks good to me too; I support the letter's submission.

Best wishes, Ayden

??????? Original Message ???????
On 5 March 2018 10:22 PM, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:

> Thanks everyone, trying to find the correct emails for the two Chairs, not so easy....
>
> cheers SP
>
> On 2018-03-05 14:39, Dr. Tatiana Tropina wrote:
>
>> Thanks a lot, Stephanie - this is an excellent letter. My full support.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Tanya
>>
>> On 05/03/18 17:07, farzaneh badii wrote:
>>
>>> All
>>>
>>> Here is the clean version which I will be sending very soon, in pdf format.
>>>
>>> Farzaneh
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 10:18 AM, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Farzaneh, Stephanie,
>>>>
>>>> I could see changes as they were redline and  I think they are ok and aligned with what was introduced during the last Friday webinar.
>>>> as mentioned, we already get support for the previous version and there is no substantive change but the adjustment to the interim model, I think the letter is ready for submission (just needs some formatting).
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Rafik
>>>>
>>>> 2018-03-05 23:58 GMT+09:00 farzaneh badii <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> This is fine Stephanie thank you very much excellent letter. I need to send this very soon PC members since you weighed in already on the previous one I suggest we just go ahead and submit this by the end of today.
>>>>>
>>>>> Farzaneh
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 7:59 AM, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> My apologies, upon checking I realized I had attached an earlier draft.  This is the correct final draft.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stephanie
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2018-03-05 07:55, Stephanie Perrin wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Colleagues, I rewrote the Art 29 letter by adding bits of analysis on the new GDPR model ICANN released on Feb 28.  Please find attached, in markup.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers Stephanie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _________________
>>>>>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> listinfo/ncsg-pc](https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>
>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
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From rafik.dammak at gmail.com  Tue Mar  6 16:40:23 2018
From: rafik.dammak at gmail.com (Rafik Dammak)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2018 23:40:23 +0900
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Draft agenda for Policy Committee Meeting in PR
Message-ID: <CAH5sThmdFhtAaj7RSH8ry14YZ2ov73pu_v1icauVrBrP1o5fOA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I am sending here a rough draft agenda for the PC meeting in PR. we have a
90min session

the council public meeting agenda is quite light and so we can spend more
time discussing topics as GDPR taking into consideration the related
sessions next week:

the draft agenda is:

1- Introduction
2- Review of the agenda for GNSO Public meeting: https://gnso.icann.
org/en/meetings/agenda-council-14mar18-en.pdf
3- Policy Discussion:
   * GDPR interim model: NCSG input & cross-community session
   * Updates from Working Groups
4- AOB

please make suggestion or additions to the agenda.

Best,

Rafik
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From farzaneh.badii at gmail.com  Wed Mar  7 21:52:29 2018
From: farzaneh.badii at gmail.com (farzaneh badii)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2018 14:52:29 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-PC] people in charge of reading out the questions in Board
 meeting
Message-ID: <CAN1qJvDTy=kYQGaNYTPtFXW0TWDvdmts+DoTTwsXNXA-xgc3Zw@mail.gmail.com>

I allocated some of the Board questions to names. You will be in charge of
reading them and the questions are in order of priority. We might not get
to ask them all.


1. ICANN and GDPR compliance: there are still issues with compliance models
offered by ICANN such as lack of data minimization, maintaining thick data
and giving power to GAC to come up with the tiered access and
certification. Does the board see these aspects of the models as
problematic? we would like to know the opinion of Board on these issues.
(Stephanie Perrin)

2. Although we had talked to some Board members about the jurisdiction subgroup
recommendations and their importance to facilitate global access to DNS,
Board Comments on Jurisdiction Sub Group were far from positive.  For
example, it was even suggested by the board to consider opportunity costs
in the study that needs to be done for seeking a general OFAC license.
Global access to DNS is in ICANN mission if the Board believes that then
asking to do opportunity costs for something that enables ICANN to do its
mission might not be workable. There are other examples of not supportive
comments to jurisdiction recommendations which we will discuss during the
meeting if needed. (Farzaneh Badiei)

3. Some of the budget cuts at ICANN will directly or indirectly affect our
policy work. ICANN has an increase in personnel budget while there are a
lot of cuts in community budget, and GNSO policy team which supports the
GNSO policy development has had serious cuts. Community Additional Budget
Request has been reduced by half and CROP was removed from this year budget
without any announcement. We want to know the opinion of Board about these
cuts. (Ayden)


4. CCT-Review- Implementation: We are concerned about CCT-Review
recommendations. Some of their very controversial recommendations been
supported by GAC.  The Review team has gone so far to recommend a
contractual change (it recommends it to ICANN Board, GNSO, and a WG). The
change (which we opposed in our public comment) says that:[ A. Consider
directing ICANN org, in its discussions with registries, to negotiate
amendments to existing Registry Agreements, or in negotiations of new
Registry Agreements associated with subsequent rounds of new gTLDs to
include provisions in the agreements providing incentives, including
financial incentives for registries, especially open registries, to adopt
proactive anti-abuse measures.] At the moment we don't see our comments on
their recommendations being given due consideration. How does the board
plan to implement these CCT-Review recommendations and what would be the
implications if the final version of review does not include community
comments? (Rafik Dammak)


4. On many levels, GAC advice has been given undue attention. Post IANA
transition, we would like the Board to honor ICANN bylaws and not look at
GAC whenever it does not have a solution for a problem. This has been
happening, for example in the GDPR models suggested by ICANN, (in the
second model) GAC has the primary role of certification. What should we do
so that the Board does not look at GAC as a source of solutions in matters
related to GNSO remit? [this also happened in the two letter second level
domain names that correspond with country codes (ccTLD). Board considered
GAC advice which was not even based on consensus and implemented it without
any consultation with GNSO although the two letters consisted of generic
names. Please refer to NCSG public comment on this issue for more
information: https://forum.icann.org/lists/comments-
proposed-measures-two-char-08jul16/pdf7DRdQjpIWq.pdf] (Tatiana Tropina)



Farzaneh
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From farzaneh.badii at gmail.com  Thu Mar  8 00:09:29 2018
From: farzaneh.badii at gmail.com (farzaneh badii)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2018 17:09:29 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-PC] NCSG policy course
Message-ID: <CAN1qJvDwp32Jf8CTYxXYZA9K2Me52KrtsMOsxZKuRZCMn+1sXA@mail.gmail.com>

All

Please find attached the draft course proposal for NCSG policy course.
David Kolbe will be the trainer and we can get involved with designing it.


I am gonna meet with David on Friday, if you have comments, let me know.

Farzaneh
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From raquino at gmail.com  Thu Mar  8 00:21:45 2018
From: raquino at gmail.com (Renata Aquino Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2018 19:21:45 -0300
Subject: [NCSG-PC] NCSG policy course
In-Reply-To: <CAN1qJvDwp32Jf8CTYxXYZA9K2Me52KrtsMOsxZKuRZCMn+1sXA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN1qJvDwp32Jf8CTYxXYZA9K2Me52KrtsMOsxZKuRZCMn+1sXA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMokdMzVyKtpcJxuDL+f_2RkF6C4u39ELtzqueR7AavmwNMNVA@mail.gmail.com>

[observer here]

Hi

Good to see this shaping up.
I would like to be in the meeting if possible.

As additional info, Incite Learning also conducted Chairing Skills course
at ALAC ICANN Academy

Materials of that course are here

https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=62395123

One of the main materials I remember was this

https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/64067871/ICANN%20CSP%20Virtual.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1486565683000&api=v2

Perhaps a good starting point to ascertain what could be NCSG Policy Course
equal or different than that.

Best,

Renata


On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 7:09 PM, farzaneh badii <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com>
wrote:

> All
>
> Please find attached the draft course proposal for NCSG policy course.
> David Kolbe will be the trainer and we can get involved with designing it.
>
>
> I am gonna meet with David on Friday, if you have comments, let me know.
>
> Farzaneh
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
>
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From icann at ferdeline.com  Thu Mar  8 00:23:54 2018
From: icann at ferdeline.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ayden_F=C3=A9rdeline?=)
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2018 17:23:54 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-PC] NCSG policy course
In-Reply-To: <CAN1qJvDwp32Jf8CTYxXYZA9K2Me52KrtsMOsxZKuRZCMn+1sXA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN1qJvDwp32Jf8CTYxXYZA9K2Me52KrtsMOsxZKuRZCMn+1sXA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <smmXD_D4cbfeYhCeLz88Ok9PpvUPUJf6_qL5RDTAO1nzYheXRg5w1PMfgj7DddqLVSkqHliKHNZ9PGH8wvRcxF451YA_fI7CPqaS9VJ_JwY=@ferdeline.com>

I have to say, I didn't read that attachment and walk away feeling excited. It isn't clear to me what the content of this course will actually entail. "Develop policy making skills, including consensus-building and negotiation, in the ICANN context" is very vague. Are we re-inventing the wheel here -- do we want this workshop to be different to the NCUC policy writing one, or might it be better just to run that again (adjusted for the NCSG) with the same trainer? I know procurement is really out of our hands so this might be unrealistic... but still, the course objectives sound a little whimsical to me, and the new trainer is not one who comes highly recommended, from what I've heard from ICANN Academy alumni...

Ayden

??????? Original Message ???????
On 7 March 2018 11:09 PM, farzaneh badii <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com> wrote:

> All
>
> Please find attached the draft course proposal for NCSG policy course. David Kolbe will be the trainer and we can get involved with designing it.
>
> I am gonna meet with David on Friday, if you have comments, let me know.
>
> Farzaneh
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From raquino at gmail.com  Thu Mar  8 01:04:59 2018
From: raquino at gmail.com (Renata Aquino Ribeiro)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2018 20:04:59 -0300
Subject: [NCSG-PC] NCSG policy course
Message-ID: <CAMokdMyJgDZeNmoC-hMxjRDEPU7mJB7PJ2f-EG+rDNHyVEVwZA@mail.gmail.com>

[observer]

I had to prepare data about participants to NCUC Policy Course
Still working on to complete it

The list of students and SOIs etc will be in the link below

Those who would like to find newcomers to guide in Policy work, please pay
special attention to these

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ikcBKlELi1kmY1I2I1wm5SwNa8HAETkBbL4m-8sV0Ac/edit?usp=sharing
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From jumaropi at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  8 16:02:17 2018
From: jumaropi at yahoo.com (Juan Manuel Rojas)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 14:02:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [NCSG-PC] NCSG policy course
In-Reply-To: <CAN1qJvDwp32Jf8CTYxXYZA9K2Me52KrtsMOsxZKuRZCMn+1sXA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN1qJvDwp32Jf8CTYxXYZA9K2Me52KrtsMOsxZKuRZCMn+1sXA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <767104033.12500058.1520517737128@mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks Farzi for forwarding this materials. I only have a question. How this program will be different of ICANN Academy Leadership Program? As far as I can see is more focused on how to reach consensus than to understand policy process. I think if we could draft some topics about Policy? course that we would like to talk about, David and you could be more productive in your meeting.?

JUAN MANUEL ROJAS P.
Presidente?-?AGEIA DENSI?ColombiaCommunications Committee Chair.?Non-for-Profit Operational Concerns Constituency (NPOC) - ICANNCluster Orinoco TIC memberMaster IT candidate, Universidad de los Andes
Cel. +57 3017435600
Twitter:?@JmanuRojas





? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 

    El mi?rcoles, 7 de marzo de 2018 6:10:14 p. m. AST, farzaneh badii <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com> escribi?:  
 
 All
Please find attached the draft course proposal for NCSG policy course. David Kolbe will be the trainer and we can get involved with designing it.?

I am gonna meet with David on Friday, if you have comments, let me know.
Farzaneh _______________________________________________
NCSG-PC mailing list
NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
  
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From icann at ferdeline.com  Fri Mar  9 15:07:45 2018
From: icann at ferdeline.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ayden_F=C3=A9rdeline?=)
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2018 08:07:45 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Fwd: [PC-NCSG] FW: Letter about GDPR and WHOIS
In-Reply-To: <331b6e8f-6b15-9c9c-6177-ac8dd3e21da9@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <20180309105309.15306838.96688.152@mobile.gc.ca>
 <331b6e8f-6b15-9c9c-6177-ac8dd3e21da9@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <USRpzkhdogGfEHjp6GvqrpAr4Lx79-K5AaCt3WGSMgiT1zm8tW7JQlY16CmjdbzrqUyT_voECWQvNuVpHuuFoXJnut_085hAlcZ51csNyPI=@ferdeline.com>

Just forwarding this along to the new PC list for those not subscribed to the previous one :-)

Thanks for sharing Stephanie

Ayden

Sent from ProtonMail Mobile

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Stephanie Perrin<stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>
> Date: On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 08:02
> Subject: Fwd: [PC-NCSG] FW: Letter about GDPR and WHOIS
> To: NCSG-Policy <pc-ncsg at ipjustice.org>
> Cc:
> In case you have not seen this yet.... Stephanie _______________________________________________ PC-NCSG mailing list PC-NCSG at ipjustice.org http://mailman.ipjustice.org/listinfo/pc-ncsg
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Fri Mar  9 15:10:33 2018
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2018 08:10:33 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Berlin group releases its paper on ICANN and registration
 data
Message-ID: <e6808889-c3dc-4fec-9c4c-f28de1163b9a@mail.utoronto.ca>

I am pleased to report that the International Working Group on Data 
Protection in Telecommunications and Media, otherwise known as the 
Berlin group, has released its working paper on ICANN and registration 
data.

 ?https://www.datenschutz-berlin.de/pdf/publikationen/working-paper/2017/2017-IWGDPT_Working_Paper_WHOIS_ICANN-en.pdf

Stephanie Perrin

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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Sun Mar 11 00:01:46 2018
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2018 17:01:46 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-PC] latest letter,
 the response to the March 8 GDPR compliance model
Message-ID: <42b3f1b7-f212-6709-c2cd-27ff625948ec@mail.utoronto.ca>

Ok folks, here is the letter as currently drafted.?? COmments welcome.? 
Thanks to Ayden for many useful comments

Stephanie

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From rafik.dammak at gmail.com  Sun Mar 11 05:43:05 2018
From: rafik.dammak at gmail.com (Rafik Dammak)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2018 23:43:05 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-PC] latest letter,
 the response to the March 8 GDPR compliance model
In-Reply-To: <42b3f1b7-f212-6709-c2cd-27ff625948ec@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <42b3f1b7-f212-6709-c2cd-27ff625948ec@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <CAH5sTh=fP_MHZHYVc-OE3207C-Z5T8uvpOBdtbYzCEdc8Oj-cA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

please review the letter, as we discussed during the NCSG inreach session
today and due to the urgency we have to send the letter within 24hours. so
we have to get it done by tomorrow.

Best,

Rafik



2018-03-10 18:01 GMT-04:00 Stephanie Perrin <
stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>:

> Ok folks, here is the letter as currently drafted.   COmments welcome.
> Thanks to Ayden for many useful comments
>
> Stephanie
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
>
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From icann at ferdeline.com  Sun Mar 11 05:45:25 2018
From: icann at ferdeline.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ayden_F=C3=A9rdeline?=)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2018 22:45:25 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-PC] latest letter,
 the response to the March 8 GDPR compliance model
In-Reply-To: <CAH5sTh=fP_MHZHYVc-OE3207C-Z5T8uvpOBdtbYzCEdc8Oj-cA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <42b3f1b7-f212-6709-c2cd-27ff625948ec@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAH5sTh=fP_MHZHYVc-OE3207C-Z5T8uvpOBdtbYzCEdc8Oj-cA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MOk0Hh4O6mym5oshUp8HlZYQA5H5Ghp4zJOcq1nbUC2iYidJJaUoFT2veRtwXKnkQvPbBCLn-amCkUMl_XhjedsnDBT89cZPQaaOAM_ath4=@ferdeline.com>

I support its submission.

Ayden

Sent from ProtonMail Mobile

On Sat, Mar 10, 2018 at 23:43, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> please review the letter, as we discussed during the NCSG inreach session today and due to the urgency we have to send the letter within 24hours. so we have to get it done by tomorrow.
>
> Best,
>
> Rafik
>
> 2018-03-10 18:01 GMT-04:00 Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>:
>
>> Ok folks, here is the letter as currently drafted.   COmments welcome.  Thanks to Ayden for many useful comments
>>
>> Stephanie
>>
>> ______________________________ _________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
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From farzaneh.badii at gmail.com  Sun Mar 11 06:38:17 2018
From: farzaneh.badii at gmail.com (farzaneh badii)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2018 04:38:17 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-PC] latest letter,
 the response to the March 8 GDPR compliance model
In-Reply-To: <MOk0Hh4O6mym5oshUp8HlZYQA5H5Ghp4zJOcq1nbUC2iYidJJaUoFT2veRtwXKnkQvPbBCLn-amCkUMl_XhjedsnDBT89cZPQaaOAM_ath4=@ferdeline.com>
References: <42b3f1b7-f212-6709-c2cd-27ff625948ec@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAH5sTh=fP_MHZHYVc-OE3207C-Z5T8uvpOBdtbYzCEdc8Oj-cA@mail.gmail.com>
 <MOk0Hh4O6mym5oshUp8HlZYQA5H5Ghp4zJOcq1nbUC2iYidJJaUoFT2veRtwXKnkQvPbBCLn-amCkUMl_XhjedsnDBT89cZPQaaOAM_ath4=@ferdeline.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1qJvBu4UaWGX-BphgYwwpS6cW8GZi2Y_3Eqm6bA+ZKWCS-kQ@mail.gmail.com>

I have made minor changes to this.

We don't represent end users. so I corrected that.

I don't think we support GAC to come up with the list of law enforcement
agencies who can have access to data. so I changed that to GAC can ....

What we need to push for is really to say: tiered access can't happen now,
adopt model 3 move the tiered access after adoption if you can't then a
group of community members can work with GAC for coming up with layered
access.

A five pager document submitted now would be read by no one, would be
difficult to advocate for. We have to highlight our points on the first
page, be short and sweet and provide our analysis on the rest of the pages
(maybe move the points you are making to the first and second page.

This is advice only. Take it or leave it. I am not the subject matter
expert.








Farzaneh

On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 3:45 AM, Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>
wrote:

> I support its submission.
>
> Ayden
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 10, 2018 at 23:43, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> please review the letter, as we discussed during the NCSG inreach session
> today and due to the urgency we have to send the letter within 24hours. so
> we have to get it done by tomorrow.
>
> Best,
>
> Rafik
>
>
>
> 2018-03-10 18:01 GMT-04:00 Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.
> utoronto.ca>:
>
>> Ok folks, here is the letter as currently drafted.   COmments welcome.
>> Thanks to Ayden for many useful comments
>>
>> Stephanie
>>
>> ______________________________ _________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
>
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Sun Mar 11 08:27:19 2018
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2018 01:27:19 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-PC] latest letter,
 the response to the March 8 GDPR compliance model
In-Reply-To: <CAN1qJvBu4UaWGX-BphgYwwpS6cW8GZi2Y_3Eqm6bA+ZKWCS-kQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <42b3f1b7-f212-6709-c2cd-27ff625948ec@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAH5sTh=fP_MHZHYVc-OE3207C-Z5T8uvpOBdtbYzCEdc8Oj-cA@mail.gmail.com>
 <MOk0Hh4O6mym5oshUp8HlZYQA5H5Ghp4zJOcq1nbUC2iYidJJaUoFT2veRtwXKnkQvPbBCLn-amCkUMl_XhjedsnDBT89cZPQaaOAM_ath4=@ferdeline.com>
 <CAN1qJvBu4UaWGX-BphgYwwpS6cW8GZi2Y_3Eqm6bA+ZKWCS-kQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e52309ee-9d6e-f4c5-48c8-c47f2ed32216@mail.utoronto.ca>

Strategically, suggesting that government can come up with the 
accreditation of their own people is, in my view, important 
diplomatically. We know that this will be achallenge for them, but who 
would you suggest to replace the GAC in this regard?

A five pager to respond to a 60 pager, in my view, is a minimal 
response, I dont understand why you think it is indefensible. I can do a 
executive summary if you like, with bullets. this already went out in 
the Art 29 letter.? I think it will add a page ultimately, but happy to 
do it, it is not a problem.

Stephanie Perrin

On 2018-03-10 23:38, farzaneh badii wrote:
> I have made minor changes to this.
>
> We don't represent end users. so I corrected that.
>
> I don't think we support GAC to come up with the?list of law 
> enforcement agencies who can have access to data. so I changed that to 
> GAC can ....
>
> What we need to push for is really to say: tiered access can't happen 
> now, adopt model 3 move the tiered access after adoption if you can't 
> then a group of community members can work with GAC for coming up with 
> layered access.
>
> A five pager document submitted now would be read by no one, would be 
> difficult to advocate for. We have to highlight our points on the 
> first page, be short and sweet and provide our analysis on the rest of 
> the pages (maybe move the points you are making to the first and 
> second page.
>
> This is advice only. Take it or leave it. I am not the subject matter 
> expert.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Farzaneh
>
> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 3:45 AM, Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com 
> <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>> wrote:
>
>     I support its submission.
>
>     Ayden
>
>     Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>
>
>     On Sat, Mar 10, 2018 at 23:43, Rafik Dammak
>     <rafik.dammak at gmail.com <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>     Hi all,
>>
>>     please review the letter, as we discussed during the NCSG inreach
>>     session today and due to the?urgency we have to send the letter
>>     within 24hours. so we have to get it done by tomorrow.
>>
>>     Best,
>>
>>     Rafik
>>
>>
>>
>>     2018-03-10 18:01 GMT-04:00 Stephanie Perrin
>>     <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
>>     <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>>:
>>
>>         Ok folks, here is the letter as currently drafted.?? COmments
>>         welcome.? Thanks to Ayden for many useful comments
>>
>>         Stephanie
>>
>>
>>         ______________________________ _________________
>>         NCSG-PC mailing list
>>         NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>         https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>         <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>>
>>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     NCSG-PC mailing list
>     NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>     https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>     <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>
>
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From farzaneh.badii at gmail.com  Sun Mar 11 12:19:31 2018
From: farzaneh.badii at gmail.com (farzaneh badii)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2018 10:19:31 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-PC] latest letter,
 the response to the March 8 GDPR compliance model
In-Reply-To: <e52309ee-9d6e-f4c5-48c8-c47f2ed32216@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <42b3f1b7-f212-6709-c2cd-27ff625948ec@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAH5sTh=fP_MHZHYVc-OE3207C-Z5T8uvpOBdtbYzCEdc8Oj-cA@mail.gmail.com>
 <MOk0Hh4O6mym5oshUp8HlZYQA5H5Ghp4zJOcq1nbUC2iYidJJaUoFT2veRtwXKnkQvPbBCLn-amCkUMl_XhjedsnDBT89cZPQaaOAM_ath4=@ferdeline.com>
 <CAN1qJvBu4UaWGX-BphgYwwpS6cW8GZi2Y_3Eqm6bA+ZKWCS-kQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <e52309ee-9d6e-f4c5-48c8-c47f2ed32216@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <CAN1qJvCmTV5LnGG+yoxUvPNsWSFmAntyRm6nBadgPN4CiyGsSg@mail.gmail.com>

If you look at the text in the document you see that I removed the words
"we support the government..." and added "governments can". So that we dont
just blatantly support them but acknowledge their ability.

On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 2:27 AM Stephanie Perrin <
stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:

> Strategically, suggesting that government can come up with the
> accreditation of their own people is, in my view, important
> diplomatically.  We know that this will be achallenge for them, but who
> would you suggest to replace the GAC in this regard?
>
> A five pager to respond to a 60 pager, in my view, is a minimal response,
> I dont understand why you think it is indefensible. I can do a executive
> summary if you like, with bullets. this already went out in the Art 29
> letter.  I think it will add a page ultimately, but happy to do it, it is
> not a problem.
>
> Stephanie Perrin
> On 2018-03-10 23:38, farzaneh badii wrote:
>
> I have made minor changes to this.
>
> We don't represent end users. so I corrected that.
>
> I don't think we support GAC to come up with the list of law enforcement
> agencies who can have access to data. so I changed that to GAC can ....
>
> What we need to push for is really to say: tiered access can't happen now,
> adopt model 3 move the tiered access after adoption if you can't then a
> group of community members can work with GAC for coming up with layered
> access.
>
> A five pager document submitted now would be read by no one, would be
> difficult to advocate for. We have to highlight our points on the first
> page, be short and sweet and provide our analysis on the rest of the pages
> (maybe move the points you are making to the first and second page.
>
> This is advice only. Take it or leave it. I am not the subject matter
> expert.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Farzaneh
>
> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 3:45 AM, Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I support its submission.
>>
>> Ayden
>>
>> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 10, 2018 at 23:43, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> please review the letter, as we discussed during the NCSG inreach session
>> today and due to the urgency we have to send the letter within 24hours. so
>> we have to get it done by tomorrow.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Rafik
>>
>>
>>
>> 2018-03-10 18:01 GMT-04:00 Stephanie Perrin <
>> stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>:
>>
>>> Ok folks, here is the letter as currently drafted.   COmments welcome.
>>> Thanks to Ayden for many useful comments
>>>
>>> Stephanie
>>>
>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>
>>
> --
Farzaneh
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From milton at gatech.edu  Sun Mar 11 11:46:14 2018
From: milton at gatech.edu (Mueller, Milton L)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2018 09:46:14 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-PC] latest letter,
 the response to the March 8 GDPR compliance model
In-Reply-To: <42b3f1b7-f212-6709-c2cd-27ff625948ec@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <42b3f1b7-f212-6709-c2cd-27ff625948ec@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <BDD71D15-987F-4659-A50E-A4ECEFEF24BE@gatech.edu>

On the whole it is a very strong letter. I have one very strong objection and would ask you to delete this paragraph:




A small group of expert community members that can work with the GAC might be a better way to come up with a tiered access system before the law comes into effect.



This is asking for trouble. Anything that happens in the next two months is going to be sloppy and biased toward what GAC wants. As Farzy suggested we should insist on them adopting model 3 until tiering methods and criteria are worked out.

Milton L Mueller
Professor, School of Public Policy
Georgia Institute of Technology

On Mar 10, 2018, at 18:02, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca<mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:


Ok folks, here is the letter as currently drafted.   COmments welcome.  Thanks to Ayden for many useful comments

Stephanie

<March 8 ICANN gdpr modelncsg4.docx>
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Sun Mar 11 15:15:14 2018
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2018 09:15:14 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-PC] latest letter,
 the response to the March 8 GDPR compliance model
In-Reply-To: <BDD71D15-987F-4659-A50E-A4ECEFEF24BE@gatech.edu>
References: <42b3f1b7-f212-6709-c2cd-27ff625948ec@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <BDD71D15-987F-4659-A50E-A4ECEFEF24BE@gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <e74a4d84-d4cb-f754-ed76-d07049806b69@mail.utoronto.ca>

I am really happy to delete that paragraph Milton, you have put your 
finger on the risk.? I will change it to a strong statement on model 
three being the only choice compliant with law until a professional, MS 
accreditation system (that contains audit and oversight) has been developed.

Cheers Stephanie

On 2018-03-11 05:46, Mueller, Milton L wrote:
> On the whole it is a very strong letter. I have one very strong 
> objection and would ask you to delete this paragraph:
>
> A small group of?expert?community members that can work with the GAC 
> might be a better way to come up with a tiered access system before 
> the law comes into effect.
>
> This is asking for trouble. Anything that happens in the next two 
> months is going to be sloppy and biased toward what GAC wants. As 
> Farzy suggested we should insist on them adopting model 3 until 
> tiering methods and criteria are worked out.
>
>
> Milton L Mueller
> Professor, School of Public Policy
> Georgia Institute of Technology
>
> On Mar 10, 2018, at 18:02, Stephanie Perrin 
> <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca 
> <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>
>> Ok folks, here is the letter as currently drafted.?? COmments 
>> welcome.? Thanks to Ayden for many useful comments
>>
>> Stephanie
>>
>> <March 8 ICANN gdpr modelncsg4.docx>
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From raquino at gmail.com  Sun Mar 11 15:17:21 2018
From: raquino at gmail.com (Renata Aquino Ribeiro)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2018 10:17:21 -0300
Subject: [NCSG-PC] latest letter,
 the response to the March 8 GDPR compliance model
In-Reply-To: <CAN1qJvCmTV5LnGG+yoxUvPNsWSFmAntyRm6nBadgPN4CiyGsSg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <42b3f1b7-f212-6709-c2cd-27ff625948ec@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAH5sTh=fP_MHZHYVc-OE3207C-Z5T8uvpOBdtbYzCEdc8Oj-cA@mail.gmail.com>
 <MOk0Hh4O6mym5oshUp8HlZYQA5H5Ghp4zJOcq1nbUC2iYidJJaUoFT2veRtwXKnkQvPbBCLn-amCkUMl_XhjedsnDBT89cZPQaaOAM_ath4=@ferdeline.com>
 <CAN1qJvBu4UaWGX-BphgYwwpS6cW8GZi2Y_3Eqm6bA+ZKWCS-kQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <e52309ee-9d6e-f4c5-48c8-c47f2ed32216@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAN1qJvCmTV5LnGG+yoxUvPNsWSFmAntyRm6nBadgPN4CiyGsSg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMokdMzHHFjb1BgUJnQaGLD8LHWRm2_6RFjD47iSmUY2CJieMg@mail.gmail.com>

[observer here]

I agree w/ implying that governments can choose their experts
But in some governments, probably shouldn't as they not done wisely that before

On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:19 AM, farzaneh badii
<farzaneh.badii at gmail.com> wrote:
> If you look at the text in the document you see that I removed the words "we
> support the government..." and added "governments can". So that we dont just
> blatantly support them but acknowledge their ability.
>
> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 2:27 AM Stephanie Perrin
> <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
>>
>> Strategically, suggesting that government can come up with the
>> accreditation of their own people is, in my view, important diplomatically.
>> We know that this will be achallenge for them, but who would you suggest to
>> replace the GAC in this regard?
>>
>> A five pager to respond to a 60 pager, in my view, is a minimal response,
>> I dont understand why you think it is indefensible. I can do a executive
>> summary if you like, with bullets. this already went out in the Art 29
>> letter.  I think it will add a page ultimately, but happy to do it, it is
>> not a problem.
>>
>> Stephanie Perrin
>>
>> On 2018-03-10 23:38, farzaneh badii wrote:
>>
>> I have made minor changes to this.
>>
>> We don't represent end users. so I corrected that.
>>
>> I don't think we support GAC to come up with the list of law enforcement
>> agencies who can have access to data. so I changed that to GAC can ....
>>
>> What we need to push for is really to say: tiered access can't happen now,
>> adopt model 3 move the tiered access after adoption if you can't then a
>> group of community members can work with GAC for coming up with layered
>> access.
>>
>> A five pager document submitted now would be read by no one, would be
>> difficult to advocate for. We have to highlight our points on the first
>> page, be short and sweet and provide our analysis on the rest of the pages
>> (maybe move the points you are making to the first and second page.
>>
>> This is advice only. Take it or leave it. I am not the subject matter
>> expert.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Farzaneh
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 3:45 AM, Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I support its submission.
>>>
>>> Ayden
>>>
>>> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 10, 2018 at 23:43, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> please review the letter, as we discussed during the NCSG inreach session
>>> today and due to the urgency we have to send the letter within 24hours. so
>>> we have to get it done by tomorrow.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Rafik
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2018-03-10 18:01 GMT-04:00 Stephanie Perrin
>>> <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>:
>>>>
>>>> Ok folks, here is the letter as currently drafted.   COmments welcome.
>>>> Thanks to Ayden for many useful comments
>>>>
>>>> Stephanie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>
>>
> --
> Farzaneh
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>


From milton at gatech.edu  Sun Mar 11 17:08:07 2018
From: milton at gatech.edu (Mueller, Milton L)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2018 15:08:07 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-PC] latest letter,
 the response to the March 8 GDPR compliance model
In-Reply-To: <e74a4d84-d4cb-f754-ed76-d07049806b69@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <42b3f1b7-f212-6709-c2cd-27ff625948ec@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <BDD71D15-987F-4659-A50E-A4ECEFEF24BE@gatech.edu>,
 <e74a4d84-d4cb-f754-ed76-d07049806b69@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <6988F7C9-036A-4F66-9714-4352F503C8EF@gatech.edu>

Another thing I forgot to mention. I was boarding a flight. I think the paragraph about abiding by all data protection laws in the world should also be struck. Of course we agree with that in some sense but on the other hand it?s overkill. Trying to get them to except a little of privacy they already don?t want, I don?t think it makes a lot of sense to demand the entire world of them in that statement

Milton L Mueller
Professor, School of Public Policy
Georgia Institute of Technology

On Mar 11, 2018, at 09:14, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca<mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:


I am really happy to delete that paragraph Milton, you have put your finger on the risk.  I will change it to a strong statement on model three being the only choice compliant with law until a professional, MS accreditation system (that contains audit and oversight) has been developed.

Cheers Stephanie

On 2018-03-11 05:46, Mueller, Milton L wrote:
On the whole it is a very strong letter. I have one very strong objection and would ask you to delete this paragraph:




A small group of expert community members that can work with the GAC might be a better way to come up with a tiered access system before the law comes into effect.



This is asking for trouble. Anything that happens in the next two months is going to be sloppy and biased toward what GAC wants. As Farzy suggested we should insist on them adopting model 3 until tiering methods and criteria are worked out.

Milton L Mueller
Professor, School of Public Policy
Georgia Institute of Technology

On Mar 10, 2018, at 18:02, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca<mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:


Ok folks, here is the letter as currently drafted.   COmments welcome.  Thanks to Ayden for many useful comments

Stephanie

<March 8 ICANN gdpr modelncsg4.docx>
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Sun Mar 11 17:18:36 2018
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2018 11:18:36 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-PC] latest letter,
 the response to the March 8 GDPR compliance model
In-Reply-To: <6988F7C9-036A-4F66-9714-4352F503C8EF@gatech.edu>
References: <42b3f1b7-f212-6709-c2cd-27ff625948ec@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <BDD71D15-987F-4659-A50E-A4ECEFEF24BE@gatech.edu>
 <e74a4d84-d4cb-f754-ed76-d07049806b69@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <6988F7C9-036A-4F66-9714-4352F503C8EF@gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <6c5fe206-c5e2-b3f8-fd59-ac7b8db0f422@mail.utoronto.ca>

Yet if? you did either the PIA or the HRIA you would get this outcome 
Milton....I am reluctant to lose it.? Possibly just pull it back into a 
more neutral statement.

cheers SP

On 2018-03-11 11:08, Mueller, Milton L wrote:
> Another thing I forgot to mention. I was boarding a flight. I think 
> the paragraph about abiding by all data protection laws in the world 
> should also be struck. Of course we agree with that in some sense but 
> on the other hand it?s overkill. Trying to get them to except a little 
> of privacy they already don?t want, I don?t think it makes a lot of 
> sense to demand the entire world of them in that statement
>
> Milton L Mueller
> Professor, School of Public Policy
> Georgia Institute of Technology
>
> On Mar 11, 2018, at 09:14, Stephanie Perrin 
> <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca 
> <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>
>> I am really happy to delete that paragraph Milton, you have put your 
>> finger on the risk.? I will change it to a strong statement on model 
>> three being the only choice compliant with law until a professional, 
>> MS accreditation system (that contains audit and oversight) has been 
>> developed.
>>
>> Cheers Stephanie
>>
>> On 2018-03-11 05:46, Mueller, Milton L wrote:
>>> On the whole it is a very strong letter. I have one very strong 
>>> objection and would ask you to delete this paragraph:
>>>
>>> A small group of?expert?community members that can work with the GAC 
>>> might be a better way to come up with a tiered access system before 
>>> the law comes into effect.
>>>
>>> This is asking for trouble. Anything that happens in the next two 
>>> months is going to be sloppy and biased toward what GAC wants. As 
>>> Farzy suggested we should insist on them adopting model 3 until 
>>> tiering methods and criteria are worked out.
>>>
>>>
>>> Milton L Mueller
>>> Professor, School of Public Policy
>>> Georgia Institute of Technology
>>>
>>> On Mar 10, 2018, at 18:02, Stephanie Perrin 
>>> <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca 
>>> <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ok folks, here is the letter as currently drafted.?? COmments 
>>>> welcome.? Thanks to Ayden for many useful comments
>>>>
>>>> Stephanie
>>>>
>>>> <March 8 ICANN gdpr modelncsg4.docx>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Sun Mar 11 17:22:19 2018
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2018 11:22:19 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-PC] article on the GDPR fight
Message-ID: <ae9d4b4b-33ee-f28a-d877-515e7e16997a@mail.utoronto.ca>

Not a bad article from Monika on this topic...behind a paywall so I am 
copying the word version.? Please do not circulate further, when it is 
out from behind the paywall we can circ further perhaps.? I think she 
sums up the stark fight rather well.? did not quite get the rdap point....


Steph

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From icann at ferdeline.com  Sun Mar 11 17:26:11 2018
From: icann at ferdeline.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ayden_F=C3=A9rdeline?=)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2018 11:26:11 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-PC] article on the GDPR fight
In-Reply-To: <ae9d4b4b-33ee-f28a-d877-515e7e16997a@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <ae9d4b4b-33ee-f28a-d877-515e7e16997a@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <z1hh1J6dE11K3nXQRM9fwekxrJpy90NAKWCB1wy-AEndvQUT6-D2AFv49W7BObZz0z1OL8HS3eE7OcAutB8a68zIns4xmYtJwAEYT31hjBo=@ferdeline.com>

Monika Ermert, I presume? Pretty neutral piece given her audience...

Ayden

??????? Original Message ???????
On 11 March 2018 3:22 PM, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:

> Not a bad article from Monika on this topic...behind a paywall so I am copying the word version.  Please do not circulate further, when it is out from behind the paywall we can circ further perhaps.  I think she sums up the stark fight rather well.  did not quite get the rdap point....
>
> Steph
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Sun Mar 11 20:30:11 2018
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2018 14:30:11 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-PC] next version of comment on March 8 GDPR model
Message-ID: <877c9c60-48a0-7491-89b2-971c28febbdb@mail.utoronto.ca>

Ok I have tried to address all concerns, please check this new draft and 
let me know ....I left it in markup for your convenience.

Best

Steph

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From icann at ferdeline.com  Sun Mar 11 20:45:34 2018
From: icann at ferdeline.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ayden_F=C3=A9rdeline?=)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2018 14:45:34 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-PC] next version of comment on March 8 GDPR model
In-Reply-To: <877c9c60-48a0-7491-89b2-971c28febbdb@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <877c9c60-48a0-7491-89b2-971c28febbdb@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <YIEBKI4icmZ6qW4H7wjZ6fiEbfql6hvun67kzJx0RLFK-OvdzVOYk-zJjVy2b4lQyw6BfSysM5E0AJ2k06auJCTNgHTGoZXHwbTmIX5Gxhg=@ferdeline.com>

This is excellent; I support its submission with three very minor edits:

1) Page 4 - remove the period between "public.interest"
2) Page 4 - bullet 2 - change 'or' to 'nor'
3) Remove ellipsis in the 'Anonymous Email Mechanisms' subheading

Thanks again for drafting it, Stephanie!

Ayden

??????? Original Message ???????
On 11 March 2018 6:30 PM, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:

> Ok I have tried to address all concerns, please check this new draft and let me know ....I left it in markup for your convenience.
>
> Best
>
> Steph
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From icann at ferdeline.com  Sun Mar 11 21:53:41 2018
From: icann at ferdeline.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ayden_F=C3=A9rdeline?=)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2018 15:53:41 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Questions for GAC tomorrow
Message-ID: <UZnyIERKQQ1Zl2QY6gRMc03lHCnOW6guN6_oMy9qnhpOci8CGB6L_fQRzDmLP1yun8cQ23-6tTEUdrAH2P_Qjui1HrqVsZ15fs-zW5java0=@ferdeline.com>

Hi all,

Can someone please remind me of the questions that we have for the GAC tomorrow? Trying to find the email but am struggling to locate it...

Many thanks,

Ayden
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From arsenebaguma at gmail.com  Sun Mar 11 23:38:03 2018
From: arsenebaguma at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ars=C3=A8ne_Tungali?=)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2018 17:38:03 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-PC] next version of comment on March 8 GDPR model
In-Reply-To: <YIEBKI4icmZ6qW4H7wjZ6fiEbfql6hvun67kzJx0RLFK-OvdzVOYk-zJjVy2b4lQyw6BfSysM5E0AJ2k06auJCTNgHTGoZXHwbTmIX5Gxhg=@ferdeline.com>
References: <877c9c60-48a0-7491-89b2-971c28febbdb@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <YIEBKI4icmZ6qW4H7wjZ6fiEbfql6hvun67kzJx0RLFK-OvdzVOYk-zJjVy2b4lQyw6BfSysM5E0AJ2k06auJCTNgHTGoZXHwbTmIX5Gxhg=@ferdeline.com>
Message-ID: <CABDXvWqPwGUgOFjTFVCPA6H4hhHWqcsj31QJPg-uJ7deGnK-DA@mail.gmail.com>

Just for the record here and as I said during the meeting.

Since this is a matter of urgency and this letter was quickly drafted
(thanks Stephanie) and we have to submit it within 24 hours, i have no
objection. I haven't had a chance to go through the whole document but i
think the conclusion is okay. Trusting our subject matter experts on this,
I support its submission.

Regards,
Arsene

------------------------
**Ars?ne Tungali* <http://about.me/ArseneTungali>*
Co-Founder & Executive Director, *Rudi international
<http://www.rudiinternational.org>*,
CEO,* Smart Services Sarl <http://www.smart-serv.info>*, *Mabingwa Forum
<http://www.mabingwa-forum.com>*
Tel: +243 993810967
GPG: 523644A0
*Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo*

2015 Mandela Washington Felllow
<http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html>
(YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF Brazil
<http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/igf-ambassadors-programme/Past-Ambassadors>
& Mexico
<http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/Current-Ambassadors>)
- AFRISIG 2016 <http://afrisig.org/afrisig-2016/class-of-2016/> - Blogger
<http://tungali.blogspot.com> - ICANN's GNSO Council
<https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm> Member. AFRINIC Fellow (
Mauritius
<http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/1907-afrinic-25-fellowship-winners>)*
- *IGFSA Member <http://www.igfsa.org/> - Internet Governance - Internet
Freedom.

Check the *2016 State of Internet Freedom in DRC* report (English
<http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=234>) and (French
<http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=242>)

2018-03-11 14:45 GMT-04:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>:

> This is excellent; I support its submission with three very minor edits:
>
> 1) Page 4 - remove the period between "public.interest"
> 2) Page 4 - bullet 2 - change 'or' to 'nor'
> 3) Remove ellipsis in the 'Anonymous Email Mechanisms' subheading
>
> Thanks again for drafting it, Stephanie!
>
> Ayden
>
>
> ??????? Original Message ???????
> On 11 March 2018 6:30 PM, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.
> utoronto.ca> wrote:
>
> Ok I have tried to address all concerns, please check this new draft and
> let me know ....I left it in markup for your convenience.
>
> Best
>
> Steph
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
>
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Mon Mar 12 00:00:41 2018
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2018 18:00:41 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-PC] next version of comment on March 8 GDPR model
In-Reply-To: <CABDXvWqPwGUgOFjTFVCPA6H4hhHWqcsj31QJPg-uJ7deGnK-DA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <877c9c60-48a0-7491-89b2-971c28febbdb@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <YIEBKI4icmZ6qW4H7wjZ6fiEbfql6hvun67kzJx0RLFK-OvdzVOYk-zJjVy2b4lQyw6BfSysM5E0AJ2k06auJCTNgHTGoZXHwbTmIX5Gxhg=@ferdeline.com>
 <CABDXvWqPwGUgOFjTFVCPA6H4hhHWqcsj31QJPg-uJ7deGnK-DA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <25504634-97c8-ba4d-5d52-41c265f5bca0@mail.utoronto.ca>

Thanks Arsene.

SP

On 2018-03-11 17:38, Ars?ne Tungali wrote:
> Just for the record here and as I said during the meeting.
>
> Since this is a matter of urgency and this letter was quickly drafted 
> (thanks Stephanie) and we have to submit it within 24 hours, i have no 
> objection. I haven't had a chance to go through the whole document but 
> i think the conclusion is okay. Trusting our subject matter experts on 
> this, I support its submission.
>
> Regards,
> Arsene
>
> ------------------------
> **Ars?ne Tungali* <http://about.me/ArseneTungali>*
> Co-Founder & Executive Director, /Rudi international 
> <http://www.rudiinternational.org>/,
> CEO,/Smart Services Sarl <http://www.smart-serv.info>/, /Mabingwa 
> Forum <http://www.mabingwa-forum.com>/
> Tel: +243 993810967/
> /
> GPG: 523644A0/
> /
> _Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo_/
>
> /
> 2015 Mandela Washington Felllow 
> <http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html> 
> (YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF Brazil 
> <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/igf-ambassadors-programme/Past-Ambassadors> 
> & Mexico 
> <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/Current-Ambassadors>) 
> - AFRISIG 2016 <http://afrisig.org/afrisig-2016/class-of-2016/> - 
> Blogger <http://tungali.blogspot.com> - ICANN's GNSO Council 
> <https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm> Member.//AFRINIC 
> Fellow//(Mauritius 
> <http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/1907-afrinic-25-fellowship-winners>)/- 
> /IGFSA Member <http://www.igfsa.org/> - Internet Governance - Internet 
> Freedom.//
>
> Check the /2016 State of Internet Freedom in DRC/ report (English 
> <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=234>) and (French 
> <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=242>)
>
> 2018-03-11 14:45 GMT-04:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com 
> <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>>:
>
>     This is excellent; I support its submission with three very minor
>     edits:
>
>     1) Page 4 - remove the period between "public.interest"
>     2) Page 4 - bullet 2 - change 'or' to 'nor'
>     3) Remove ellipsis in the 'Anonymous Email Mechanisms' subheading
>
>     Thanks again for drafting it, Stephanie!
>
>     Ayden
>
>
>     ??????? Original Message ???????
>     On 11 March 2018 6:30 PM, Stephanie Perrin
>     <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
>     <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>
>>     Ok I have tried to address all concerns, please check this new
>>     draft and let me know ....I left it in markup for your convenience.
>>
>>     Best
>>
>>     Steph
>>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     NCSG-PC mailing list
>     NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>     https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>     <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>
>
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From mpsilvavalent at gmail.com  Mon Mar 12 00:29:35 2018
From: mpsilvavalent at gmail.com (Martin Pablo Silva Valent)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2018 18:29:35 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-PC] next version of comment on March 8 GDPR model
In-Reply-To: <25504634-97c8-ba4d-5d52-41c265f5bca0@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <877c9c60-48a0-7491-89b2-971c28febbdb@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <YIEBKI4icmZ6qW4H7wjZ6fiEbfql6hvun67kzJx0RLFK-OvdzVOYk-zJjVy2b4lQyw6BfSysM5E0AJ2k06auJCTNgHTGoZXHwbTmIX5Gxhg=@ferdeline.com>
 <CABDXvWqPwGUgOFjTFVCPA6H4hhHWqcsj31QJPg-uJ7deGnK-DA@mail.gmail.com>
 <25504634-97c8-ba4d-5d52-41c265f5bca0@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <71DA1679-6904-4AF7-9ED8-1A998D491BBD@gmail.com>

Just read it again and I still support it, great work once again. 

Cheers,
Mart?n

> On 11 Mar 2018, at 18:00, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
> 
> Thanks Arsene.
> 
> SP
> On 2018-03-11 17:38, Ars?ne Tungali wrote:
>> Just for the record here and as I said during the meeting. 
>> 
>> Since this is a matter of urgency and this letter was quickly drafted (thanks Stephanie) and we have to submit it within 24 hours, i have no objection. I haven't had a chance to go through the whole document but i think the conclusion is okay. Trusting our subject matter experts on this, I support its submission.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Arsene
>> 
>> ------------------------
>> *Ars?ne Tungali <http://about.me/ArseneTungali>*
>> Co-Founder & Executive Director, Rudi international <http://www.rudiinternational.org/>,
>> CEO, Smart Services Sarl <http://www.smart-serv.info/>, Mabingwa Forum <http://www.mabingwa-forum.com/> 
>> Tel: +243 993810967
>> GPG: 523644A0
>> Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo
>> 
>> 2015 Mandela Washington Felllow <http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html> (YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF Brazil <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/igf-ambassadors-programme/Past-Ambassadors> & Mexico <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/Current-Ambassadors>) - AFRISIG 2016 <http://afrisig.org/afrisig-2016/class-of-2016/> - Blogger <http://tungali.blogspot.com/> - ICANN's GNSO Council <https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm> Member. AFRINIC Fellow (Mauritius <http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/1907-afrinic-25-fellowship-winners>) - IGFSA Member <http://www.igfsa.org/> - Internet Governance - Internet Freedom. 
>> 
>> Check the 2016 State of Internet Freedom in DRC report (English <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=234>) and (French <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=242>)
>> 
>> 2018-03-11 14:45 GMT-04:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>>:
>> This is excellent; I support its submission with three very minor edits:
>> 
>> 1) Page 4 - remove the period between "public.interest"
>> 2) Page 4 - bullet 2 - change 'or' to 'nor'
>> 3) Remove ellipsis in the 'Anonymous Email Mechanisms' subheading
>> 
>> Thanks again for drafting it, Stephanie!
>> 
>> Ayden  
>> 
>> 
>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>> On 11 March 2018 6:30 PM, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Ok I have tried to address all concerns, please check this new draft and let me know ....I left it in markup for your convenience.
>>> Best 
>>> Steph
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>> 
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc

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From farzaneh.badii at gmail.com  Mon Mar 12 01:49:29 2018
From: farzaneh.badii at gmail.com (farzaneh badii)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2018 23:49:29 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Ncsg comment on cook book
In-Reply-To: <CAN1qJvCR+D9v4g13gMmPw5eoQxun1vcU+s6KZg-W8ViyPKFg=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN1qJvCR+D9v4g13gMmPw5eoQxun1vcU+s6KZg-W8ViyPKFg=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN1qJvCz3xPDe1yVYPy+0xH5cCC5naBC=18N96U5p=B2wB5N4g@mail.gmail.com>

This has been sent to board, Icann staff etc.

Maryam please put it on our wiki page and tweet it
-- 
Farzaneh
-- 
Farzaneh
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From rafik.dammak at gmail.com  Mon Mar 12 05:34:26 2018
From: rafik.dammak at gmail.com (Rafik Dammak)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2018 23:34:26 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Ncsg comment on cook book
In-Reply-To: <CAN1qJvCz3xPDe1yVYPy+0xH5cCC5naBC=18N96U5p=B2wB5N4g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN1qJvCR+D9v4g13gMmPw5eoQxun1vcU+s6KZg-W8ViyPKFg=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN1qJvCz3xPDe1yVYPy+0xH5cCC5naBC=18N96U5p=B2wB5N4g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH5sThmwadDjDiTQ19PrbSngizpguW3GAoAHM6JnHUYaNaDLXg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Thanks Farzaneh for sending the letter
for the record, we discussed the letter during the policy committee session
today, cleared out the latest changes and endorsed it. we got also support
on PC list.

Best,

Rafik

2018-03-11 19:49 GMT-04:00 farzaneh badii <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com>:

> This has been sent to board, Icann staff etc.
>
> Maryam please put it on our wiki page and tweet it
> --
> Farzaneh
> --
> Farzaneh
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
>
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From icann at ferdeline.com  Mon Mar 12 06:48:33 2018
From: icann at ferdeline.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ayden_F=C3=A9rdeline?=)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 00:48:33 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Ncsg comment on cook book
In-Reply-To: <CAN1qJvCz3xPDe1yVYPy+0xH5cCC5naBC=18N96U5p=B2wB5N4g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN1qJvCR+D9v4g13gMmPw5eoQxun1vcU+s6KZg-W8ViyPKFg=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN1qJvCz3xPDe1yVYPy+0xH5cCC5naBC=18N96U5p=B2wB5N4g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pff3Pm5d_0diwXs9D1-NR7q5MBGUbssrF3ruVT3qAFSpdowcVLS_tkx40U_Ua5_pVdPIHpHxk5DqinC03UP7zYXFaUpKTrFK99VeQ2LYwcI=@ferdeline.com>

Thanks Farzaneh

Ayden

Sent from ProtonMail Mobile

On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 19:49, farzaneh badii <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com> wrote:

> This has been sent to board, Icann staff etc.
>
> Maryam please put it on our wiki page and tweet it
> --
>
> Farzaneh
> --
>
> Farzaneh
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From maryam.bakoshi at icann.org  Mon Mar 12 12:41:24 2018
From: maryam.bakoshi at icann.org (Maryam Bakoshi)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 10:41:24 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-PC] [Ext]  Ncsg comment on cook book
In-Reply-To: <CAN1qJvCz3xPDe1yVYPy+0xH5cCC5naBC=18N96U5p=B2wB5N4g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN1qJvCR+D9v4g13gMmPw5eoQxun1vcU+s6KZg-W8ViyPKFg=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN1qJvCz3xPDe1yVYPy+0xH5cCC5naBC=18N96U5p=B2wB5N4g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <081DC539-F6F9-44B3-A5D1-D5518F4E14E2@icann.org>

Dear Farzaneh,

I have tweeted, and uploaded the statement to the wiki: https://community.icann.org/display/gnsononcomstake/NCSG+Policy+Statements?preview=/29591060/79440090/March%208%20ICANN%20gdpr.pdf


--
Many thanks,

Maryam Bakoshi | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
ICANN | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
S: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | T: +44 7737698036

From: NCSG-PC <ncsg-pc-bounces at lists.ncsg.is> on behalf of farzaneh badii <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com>
Date: Sunday, March 11, 2018 at 11:50 PM
To: NCSG PC <ncsg-pc at lists.ncsg.is>
Subject: [Ext] [NCSG-PC] Ncsg comment on cook book

This has been sent to board, Icann staff etc.

Maryam please put it on our wiki page and tweet it
--
Farzaneh
--
Farzaneh
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From lists at nickshorey.com  Mon Mar 12 12:49:49 2018
From: lists at nickshorey.com (Nick Shorey)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 10:49:49 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-PC] latest letter,
 the response to the March 8 GDPR compliance model
In-Reply-To: <6c5fe206-c5e2-b3f8-fd59-ac7b8db0f422@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <42b3f1b7-f212-6709-c2cd-27ff625948ec@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <BDD71D15-987F-4659-A50E-A4ECEFEF24BE@gatech.edu>
 <e74a4d84-d4cb-f754-ed76-d07049806b69@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <6988F7C9-036A-4F66-9714-4352F503C8EF@gatech.edu>
 <6c5fe206-c5e2-b3f8-fd59-ac7b8db0f422@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <CAJf3Mf0VXDj+TU+LbAHyo3E-ahXxBQ+JQwZhv1ZRAER_NM++4w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone,

At present I cannot support submission of the previous draft, so please see
attached updated document with comments and edits.

Key points:

- The document should be restructured to put the summary recommendations at
the start;
- Need to be clearer in our assessment of whether this proposed solution
should be implemented (or not);
- Where possible, keep our responses based upon facts;
- I'm really uncomfortable with some of the paragraphs (2,3,5) in the
Tiered Access Models section. Just sounds like a rant;
- Be clearer in our views on GAC oversight of accreditation, bypassing of
MLAT and our recommendation for cross-community expert group.

Kind regards,

Nick

*Nick Shorey*
Phone: +44 (0) 7552 455 988
Email: lists at nickshorey.com
Skype: nick.shorey
Twitter: @nickshorey
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/nicklinkedin
Web: www.nickshorey.com

On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 3:18 PM, Stephanie Perrin <
stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:

> Yet if  you did either the PIA or the HRIA you would get this outcome
> Milton....I am reluctant to lose it.  Possibly just pull it back into a
> more neutral statement.
>
> cheers SP
> On 2018-03-11 11:08, Mueller, Milton L wrote:
>
> Another thing I forgot to mention. I was boarding a flight. I think the
> paragraph about abiding by all data protection laws in the world should
> also be struck. Of course we agree with that in some sense but on the other
> hand it?s overkill. Trying to get them to except a little of privacy they
> already don?t want, I don?t think it makes a lot of sense to demand the
> entire world of them in that statement
>
> Milton L Mueller
> Professor, School of Public Policy
> Georgia Institute of Technology
>
> On Mar 11, 2018, at 09:14, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.
> utoronto.ca> wrote:
>
> I am really happy to delete that paragraph Milton, you have put your
> finger on the risk.  I will change it to a strong statement on model three
> being the only choice compliant with law until a professional, MS
> accreditation system (that contains audit and oversight) has been developed.
>
> Cheers Stephanie
> On 2018-03-11 05:46, Mueller, Milton L wrote:
>
> On the whole it is a very strong letter. I have one very strong objection
> and would ask you to delete this paragraph:
>
>
>
> A small group of expert community members that can work with the GAC
> might be a better way to come up with a tiered access system before the
> law comes into effect.
>
>
>
> This is asking for trouble. Anything that happens in the next two months
> is going to be sloppy and biased toward what GAC wants. As Farzy suggested
> we should insist on them adopting model 3 until tiering methods and
> criteria are worked out.
>
> Milton L Mueller
> Professor, School of Public Policy
> Georgia Institute of Technology
>
> On Mar 10, 2018, at 18:02, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.
> utoronto.ca> wrote:
>
> Ok folks, here is the letter as currently drafted.   COmments welcome.
> Thanks to Ayden for many useful comments
>
> Stephanie
>
> <March 8 ICANN gdpr modelncsg4.docx>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing listNCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.ishttps://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
>
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From milton at gatech.edu  Mon Mar 12 16:23:54 2018
From: milton at gatech.edu (Mueller, Milton L)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 14:23:54 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-PC] next version of comment on March 8 GDPR model
In-Reply-To: <877c9c60-48a0-7491-89b2-971c28febbdb@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <877c9c60-48a0-7491-89b2-971c28febbdb@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <CY1PR0701MB1274BEABFA444AA6374388D3A1D30@CY1PR0701MB1274.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Hi all
Let me know the final status of this as I want to feature it in a IGP blog post. I want to do that today.

Dr. Milton Mueller
Professor, School of Public Policy
Georgia Institute of Technology

[IGP_logo_gold block_email sig]<http://www.internetgovernance.org/>



From: Stephanie Perrin [mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca]
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 2:30 PM
To: ncsg-pc <ncsg-pc at lists.ncsg.is>; Mueller, Milton L <milton at gatech.edu>; Wolfgang Kleinw?chter <wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
Subject: next version of comment on March 8 GDPR model


Ok I have tried to address all concerns, please check this new draft and let me know ....I left it in markup for your convenience.

Best

Steph
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From icann at ferdeline.com  Mon Mar 12 16:57:59 2018
From: icann at ferdeline.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ayden_F=C3=A9rdeline?=)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 10:57:59 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-PC] next version of comment on March 8 GDPR model
In-Reply-To: <CY1PR0701MB1274BEABFA444AA6374388D3A1D30@CY1PR0701MB1274.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <877c9c60-48a0-7491-89b2-971c28febbdb@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CY1PR0701MB1274BEABFA444AA6374388D3A1D30@CY1PR0701MB1274.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <6ok2rwTrREhwm7pWW5DzpogWCQmb2Ajbi87NtNIC8svivvAsTky_RMsTdK1uZAO71s4sRkyEBvdfD3rtS_OH3iIDMkw3bQuTS4dbHzaOmLQ=@ferdeline.com>

Hi Milton,

The comment that was submitted yesterday is now on the NCSG wiki: https://community.icann.org/display/gnsononcomstake/NCSG+Policy+Statements?preview=/29591060/79440090/March%208%20ICANN%20gdpr.pdf

Best wishes,

Ayden

??????? Original Message ???????
On 12 March 2018 2:23 PM, Mueller, Milton L <milton at gatech.edu> wrote:

> Hi all
>
> Let me know the final status of this as I want to feature it in a IGP blog post. I want to do that today.
>
> Dr. Milton Mueller
>
> Professor, School of Public Policy
>
> Georgia Institute of Technology
>
> [IGP_logo_gold block_email sig](http://www.internetgovernance.org/)
>
> From: Stephanie Perrin [mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca]
> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 2:30 PM
> To: ncsg-pc <ncsg-pc at lists.ncsg.is>; Mueller, Milton L <milton at gatech.edu>; Wolfgang Kleinw?chter <wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
> Subject: next version of comment on March 8 GDPR model
>
> Ok I have tried to address all concerns, please check this new draft and let me know ....I left it in markup for your convenience.
>
> Best
>
> Steph
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Tue Mar 13 22:04:34 2018
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 16:04:34 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Fwd: [council] FYI additional Cross-Community Session:
 GDPR & WHOIS Compliance Models (Continued) Wednesday, 14 March,
 0930-1030 Ballroom A
In-Reply-To: <69340facd9f84591bac0ad7a900d3281@PMBX112-W1-CA-1.PEXCH112.ICANN.ORG>
References: <69340facd9f84591bac0ad7a900d3281@PMBX112-W1-CA-1.PEXCH112.ICANN.ORG>
Message-ID: <48b376a9-fb82-6a30-752c-9e82f135990b@mail.utoronto.ca>

uh oh.? NO idea what is up, please tell me if you know more about this 
than I do.

Stephanie



-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: 	[council] FYI additional Cross-Community Session: GDPR & WHOIS 
Compliance Models (Continued) Wednesday, 14 March, 0930-1030 Ballroom A
Date: 	Tue, 13 Mar 2018 17:26:47 +0000
From: 	Terri Agnew <terri.agnew at icann.org>
To: 	council at gnso.icann.org <council at gnso.icann.org>
CC: 	gnso-secs at icann.org <gnso-secs at icann.org>



*Cross-Community Session: GDPR & WHOIS Compliance Models (Continued)*

*Wednesday, 14 March <x-apple-data-detectors://1>, 0930-1030 
<tel:0930-1030>*

*Ballroom A*

*URL: https://61.schedule.icann.org/meetings/652026*

**



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_______________________________________________
council mailing list
council at gnso.icann.org
https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/council


From rafik.dammak at gmail.com  Tue Mar 13 22:07:34 2018
From: rafik.dammak at gmail.com (Rafik Dammak)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 16:07:34 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Fwd: [council] FYI additional Cross-Community
 Session: GDPR & WHOIS Compliance Models (Continued) Wednesday, 14 March,
 0930-1030 Ballroom A
In-Reply-To: <48b376a9-fb82-6a30-752c-9e82f135990b@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <69340facd9f84591bac0ad7a900d3281@PMBX112-W1-CA-1.PEXCH112.ICANN.ORG>
 <48b376a9-fb82-6a30-752c-9e82f135990b@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <CAH5sThkx+1nV7w-MXKCSvjOkk9jawZsR3kG80Oj23tKr4T_d=Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Stephanie,

it looks like a continuation of the first session on Monday, so you should
be there too,

Rafik

2018-03-13 16:04 GMT-04:00 Stephanie Perrin <
stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>:

> uh oh.  NO idea what is up, please tell me if you know more about this
> than I do.
>
> Stephanie
>
>
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> Subject: [council] FYI additional Cross-Community Session: GDPR & WHOIS
> Compliance Models (Continued) Wednesday, 14 March, 0930-1030 Ballroom A
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 17:26:47 +0000
> From: Terri Agnew <terri.agnew at icann.org> <terri.agnew at icann.org>
> To: council at gnso.icann.org <council at gnso.icann.org>
> <council at gnso.icann.org>
> CC: gnso-secs at icann.org <gnso-secs at icann.org> <gnso-secs at icann.org>
>
>
> *Cross-Community Session: GDPR & WHOIS Compliance Models (Continued)*
>
> *Wednesday, 14 March, 0930-1030 <0930-1030>*
>
> *Ballroom A*
>
> *URL: https://61.schedule.icann.org/meetings/652026
> <https://61.schedule.icann.org/meetings/652026>*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
>
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From matthew at intpolicy.com  Tue Mar 13 22:06:50 2018
From: matthew at intpolicy.com (Matthew Shears)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 16:06:50 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Fwd: [council] FYI additional Cross-Community
 Session: GDPR & WHOIS Compliance Models (Continued) Wednesday, 14 March,
 0930-1030 Ballroom A
In-Reply-To: <48b376a9-fb82-6a30-752c-9e82f135990b@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <69340facd9f84591bac0ad7a900d3281@PMBX112-W1-CA-1.PEXCH112.ICANN.ORG>
 <48b376a9-fb82-6a30-752c-9e82f135990b@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <cfbaccfd-13d3-f694-fdb9-90e91d6e9acf@intpolicy.com>

Hi all - I understand this is a follow-up from the earlier session to 
allow questions to be posed to John Jeffries and others on the model, 
etc.? My understanding.

Matthew


On 13/03/2018 16:04, Stephanie Perrin wrote:
>
> uh oh.? NO idea what is up, please tell me if you know more about this 
> than I do.
>
> Stephanie
>
>
>
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> Subject: 	[council] FYI additional Cross-Community Session: GDPR & 
> WHOIS Compliance Models (Continued) Wednesday, 14 March, 0930-1030 
> Ballroom A
> Date: 	Tue, 13 Mar 2018 17:26:47 +0000
> From: 	Terri Agnew <terri.agnew at icann.org>
> To: 	council at gnso.icann.org <council at gnso.icann.org>
> CC: 	gnso-secs at icann.org <gnso-secs at icann.org>
>
>
>
> *Cross-Community Session: GDPR & WHOIS Compliance Models (Continued)*
>
> *Wednesday, 14 March <x-apple-data-detectors://1>, 0930-1030 
> <tel:0930-1030>*
>
> *Ballroom A*
>
> *URL: https://61.schedule.icann.org/meetings/652026*
>
> **
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc



---
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From rafik.dammak at gmail.com  Wed Mar 21 20:28:59 2018
From: rafik.dammak at gmail.com (Rafik Dammak)
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2018 18:28:59 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Review NCSG Comment on KSK Rollover Draft
Message-ID: <CAH5sThkPGgBpqegL5u-60--g2tzpUECJQvFmYVwrhaOxFX3ixQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

A draft we have to review for endorsment  asap,  the deadline for
submission is the 2nd April.

Best,

Rafik

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Louise Marie Hurel <louise.marie.hsd at gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Mar 22, 2018, 3:23 AM
Subject: [Public Comments] NCSG Comment on KSK Rollover Draft
To: <NCSG-DISCUSS at listserv.syr.edu>
Cc: Tomslin Samme-Nlar <mesumbeslin at gmail.com>, Dina Solveig Jalkanen <
icann at thomascovenant.org>, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com>


Hi all,

Comments on the Plan to Restart the Root Key Signing Key (KSK) Rollover
Process opened early February this year
<https://www.icann.org/public-comments/ksk-rollover-restart-2018-02-01-en>.
For those who have not been following the process that closely, KSK serves
as a trust anchor for DNSSEC and was last (and for the first time) signed
in 2010. ICANN had scheduled to implement a new key in October. However,
they decided to postpone the signing of new cryptographic keys for the DNS
after finding that the resolvers used by ISPs and network operators were
still not ready and there's a need for more data in prepping for it.

While the comment is narrow and highly technical in its scope, the overall
idea of the process can be read as taking the next step in consolidating a
way of periodically changing keys -- thus enhancing security and resilience
in the DNS.

Tomslin, Dina and I have worked on this draft
<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VNxn4UJlk8z196Kz56ucAdgyWp0ua9NmdHexRE1Wkhc/edit>
and would be happy to get more comments edits, suggestions on this. Feel
free to jump in.

For more info, see here
<https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2017-09-27-en> and here
<https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/plan-continuing-root-ksk-rollover-01feb18-en.pdf>
.

All the best,

Louise Marie Hurel

Cybersecurity Project Coordinator | Igarap? Institute

London School of Economics (LSE) Media and Communications (Data and Society)
Skype: louise.dias
+44 (0) 7468 906327
*l.h.dias at lse.ac.uk <l.h.dias at lse.ac.uk> *
louise.marie.hsd at gmail.com
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Thu Mar 22 23:10:32 2018
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2018 17:10:32 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Fwd: Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs] ccNSO
 Council resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
In-Reply-To: <010f01d3c21c$1393ea10$3abbbe30$@cabase.org.ar>
References: <010f01d3c21c$1393ea10$3abbbe30$@cabase.org.ar>
Message-ID: <4e68daa9-8a37-c3bb-09da-16da6f910276@mail.utoronto.ca>

Interesting.? DO we have a view on this folks?? I would not object to 
putting the RDS review on hold.? Far too much to keep track of, notably 
GDPR and the Privacy proxy services IRT.

Steph



-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: 	Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council 
resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
Date: 	Thu, 22 Mar 2018 17:26:35 -0300
From: 	Anthony Harris <harris at cabase.org.ar>
To: 	'PAMELA LITTLE' <pam.little at alibaba-inc.com>, 'Heather Forrest' 
<haforrestesq at gmail.com>, 'GNSO Council List' <council at gnso.icann.org>, 
'Austin, Donna' <Donna.Austin at team.neustar>



I support Pam?s suggestion.

Tony Harris


Logo

	

Antonio Harris
/Director Ejecutivo/

C?mara Argentina de Internet
Suipacha 128 - 3 "F"- Tel: (5411) 5263-7456
harris at cabase.org.ar <mailto:harris at cabase.org.ar>?? www.cabase.org.ar 
<http://www.cabase.org.ar>

facebook <http://www.facebook.com/CabaseAr/>twitter 
<http://twitter.com/CabaseAr>linkedIn 
<http://www.linkedin.com/company/562172?trk=tyah&trkInfo=clickedVertical%3Acompany%2CclickedEntityId%3A562172%2Cidx%3A2-1-2%2CtarId%3A1454513596509%2Ctas%3Acabase>

eco?No me imprimas si no es necesario. Protejamos el medio ambiente

*De:*council [mailto:council-bounces at gnso.icann.org] *En nombre de 
*PAMELA LITTLE
*Enviado el:* mi?rcoles, 21 de marzo de 2018 0:55
*Para:* Heather Forrest; GNSO Council List; Austin, Donna
*Asunto:* Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council 
resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2

In addition to bandwidth issue//and in light of//the discussions around 
ICANN budget and GDPR at ICANN61, perhaps the community should consider 
a deferral/pause of this review.

Also,?see below excerpt of Goran's latest blog 
https://www.icann.org/news/blog/budget-discussions-at-icann61:

"...and for the RDS Review, there is still significant work remaining to 
address the impacts of the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) on 
the WHOIS system. Delaying either of these reviews would save many hours 
of volunteer time. Additionally, and more broadly, addressing the timing 
of reviews, and approach, will contribute to discussing how to make 
future reviews more efficient and more relevant. Deferring a review that 
will be impacted by current Policy Development Processes or other 
outside factors, could have significant savings on productivity and cost."

Kind regards,

Pam

    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    Sender:Austin, Donna via council <council at gnso.icann.org
    <mailto:council at gnso.icann.org>>

    Sent at:2018 Mar 21 (Wed) 07:34

    To:Heather Forrest <haforrestesq at gmail.com
    <mailto:haforrestesq at gmail.com>>; GNSO Council List
    <council at gnso.icann.org <mailto:council at gnso.icann.org>>

    Subject:Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council
    resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2

    Heather, Susan

    Where does this leave the RDS Review Team in terms of adequate
    membership? I know Susan has raised concerns previously that there
    isn?t enough people to do the work.

    Is it possible for the GNSO to recommend additional candidates to
    fill the vacancies left by the ccNSO?s decision not to appoint
    volunteers?

    Donna

    *From:*council [mailto:council-bounces at gnso.icann.org] *On Behalf Of
    *Heather Forrest
    *Sent:* Tuesday, March 13, 2018 10:51 AM
    *To:* GNSO Council List <council at gnso.icann.org
    <mailto:council at gnso.icann.org>>
    *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] [council] Fwd: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council
    resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2

    Dear Council colleagues,

    Please note the ccNSO's affirmed position on RDS/WHOIS2 RT.

    Best wishes,

    Heather

    ---------- Forwarded message ----------
    From: *Katrina Sataki* <katrina at nic.lv <mailto:katrina at nic.lv>>
    Date: Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 1:37 PM
    Subject: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council resolves not to participate in
    RDS/WHOIS2
    To: Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca
    <mailto:alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>>
    Cc: Goran Marby <goran.marby at icann.org
    <mailto:goran.marby at icann.org>>, Chris Disspain
    <chris.disspain at board.icann.org
    <mailto:chris.disspain at board.icann.org>>,
    mike.silber at board.icann.org <mailto:mike.silber at board.icann.org>,
    SOAC Chairs <soac-chairs at icann.org <mailto:soac-chairs at icann.org>>

    7 March 2018

    To: Alan Greenberg, RDS/WHOIS 2 Review Team, Chair

    CC: Chris Disspain, Mike Silber, G?ran Marby, Chairs of ALAC, ASO,
    GAC, GNSO, SSAC, RSAC

    Dear Alan,

    In May 2017, we informed the ICANN Board of Directors that the ccNSO
    did not find itself in a position to nominate candidates for the
    RDS/ WHOIS2 Review Team, and deferred participation in this specific
    review.

    On 18 January 2018, the ccNSO Council again discussed its
    participation in the review. Following this discussion, by 16
    February 2018, the ccNSO Council decided not to participate in the
    RDS/WHOIS2 specific review.

    The ccNSO Council thanks the volunteers who sought endorsement of
    the ccNSO.

    Kind regards,

    Katrina Sataki,

    Chair of the ccNSO


    _______________________________________________
    soac-chairs mailing list
    soac-chairs at icann.org <mailto:soac-chairs at icann.org>
    https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/soac-chairs
    <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_listinfo_soac-2Dchairs&d=DwMFaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=CwipU91YB6EkpFXK9ynnT_QUef4yC5p7jpsDm8cU97g&m=z_9KlnGUQfzfjAPK60pwOGQ2z1_9dnUTx9nfWFZ0teA&s=bckZA-Th5eFVMWmo4Yk61megNGgOUiJTbBHZaB-WcDg&e=>

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_______________________________________________
council mailing list
council at gnso.icann.org
https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/council


From rafik.dammak at gmail.com  Thu Mar 22 23:22:38 2018
From: rafik.dammak at gmail.com (Rafik Dammak)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2018 21:22:38 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Fwd: Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs]
 ccNSO Council resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
In-Reply-To: <4e68daa9-8a37-c3bb-09da-16da6f910276@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <010f01d3c21c$1393ea10$3abbbe30$@cabase.org.ar>
 <4e68daa9-8a37-c3bb-09da-16da6f910276@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <CAH5sThnLbzKmL2dEmJTb7NcqAPb-_DoSXwoc-Y4OW6LEUOKRqA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi ,


I would be more cautious here, contracted trying to be too tactical but
there may be unintended consequences. We heard Goran many times last
talking about proposing changes to reviews but we have no idea about
specifics. Pausing may just lead somehow to less serious and small in scope
reviews in future with whatever ICANN wants to propose.
Pausing without clear conditions for restart will be another SSR2 drama and
playing into narrative that community cannot manage those processes.

Best,

Rafik


On Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 6:10 AM Stephanie Perrin <
stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:

> Interesting.  DO we have a view on this folks?  I would not object to
> putting the RDS review on hold.  Far too much to keep track of, notably
> GDPR and the Privacy proxy services IRT.
>
> Steph
>
>
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> Subject: Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council
> resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2018 17:26:35 -0300
> From: Anthony Harris <harris at cabase.org.ar> <harris at cabase.org.ar>
> To: 'PAMELA LITTLE' <pam.little at alibaba-inc.com>
> <pam.little at alibaba-inc.com>, 'Heather Forrest' <haforrestesq at gmail.com>
> <haforrestesq at gmail.com>, 'GNSO Council List' <council at gnso.icann.org>
> <council at gnso.icann.org>, 'Austin, Donna' <Donna.Austin at team.neustar>
> <Donna.Austin at team.neustar>
>
> I support Pam?s suggestion.
>
>
>
> Tony Harris
>
>
>
> [image: Logo]
>
> Antonio Harris
> *Director Ejecutivo*
>
> C?mara Argentina de Internet
> Suipacha 128 - 3 "F" - Tel: (5411) 5263-7456
> harris at cabase.org.ar ? www.cabase.org.ar
>
>  [image: facebook] <http://www.facebook.com/CabaseAr/> [image: twitter]
> <http://twitter.com/CabaseAr> [image: linkedIn]
> <http://www.linkedin.com/company/562172?trk=tyah&trkInfo=clickedVertical%3Acompany%2CclickedEntityId%3A562172%2Cidx%3A2-1-2%2CtarId%3A1454513596509%2Ctas%3Acabase>
>
>
> [image: eco] No me imprimas si no es necesario. Protejamos el medio
> ambiente
>
>
>
>
>
> *De:* council [mailto:council-bounces at gnso.icann.org
> <council-bounces at gnso.icann.org>] *En nombre de *PAMELA LITTLE
> *Enviado el:* mi?rcoles, 21 de marzo de 2018 0:55
> *Para:* Heather Forrest; GNSO Council List; Austin, Donna
> *Asunto:* Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council
> resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
>
>
>
> In addition to bandwidth issue and in light of the discussions around
> ICANN budget and GDPR at ICANN61, perhaps the community should consider a
> deferral/pause of this review.
>
>
>
> Also, see below excerpt of Goran's latest blog
> https://www.icann.org/news/blog/budget-discussions-at-icann61:
>
>
>
> "...and for the RDS Review, there is still significant work remaining to
> address the impacts of the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) on the
> WHOIS system. Delaying either of these reviews would save many hours of
> volunteer time. Additionally, and more broadly, addressing the timing of
> reviews, and approach, will contribute to discussing how to make future
> reviews more efficient and more relevant. Deferring a review that will be
> impacted by current Policy Development Processes or other outside factors,
> could have significant savings on productivity and cost."
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
>
> Pam
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Sender:Austin, Donna via council <council at gnso.icann.org>
>
> Sent at:2018 Mar 21 (Wed) 07:34
>
> To:Heather Forrest <haforrestesq at gmail.com>; GNSO Council List <
> council at gnso.icann.org>
>
> Subject:Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council
> resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
>
>
>
> Heather, Susan
>
>
>
> Where does this leave the RDS Review Team in terms of adequate membership?
> I know Susan has raised concerns previously that there isn?t enough people
> to do the work.
>
>
>
> Is it possible for the GNSO to recommend additional candidates to fill the
> vacancies left by the ccNSO?s decision not to appoint volunteers?
>
>
>
> Donna
>
>
>
> *From:* council [mailto:council-bounces at gnso.icann.org
> <council-bounces at gnso.icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *Heather Forrest
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 13, 2018 10:51 AM
> *To:* GNSO Council List <council at gnso.icann.org>
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] [council] Fwd: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council resolves
> not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
>
>
>
> Dear Council colleagues,
>
>
>
> Please note the ccNSO's affirmed position on RDS/WHOIS2 RT.
>
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
>
>
> Heather
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: *Katrina Sataki* <katrina at nic.lv>
> Date: Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 1:37 PM
> Subject: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council resolves not to participate in
> RDS/WHOIS2
> To: Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>
> Cc: Goran Marby <goran.marby at icann.org>, Chris Disspain <
> chris.disspain at board.icann.org>, mike.silber at board.icann.org, SOAC Chairs
> <soac-chairs at icann.org>
>
> 7 March 2018
>
>
>
> To: Alan Greenberg, RDS/WHOIS 2 Review Team, Chair
>
> CC: Chris Disspain, Mike Silber, G?ran Marby, Chairs of ALAC, ASO, GAC,
> GNSO, SSAC, RSAC
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Alan,
>
>
>
> In May 2017, we informed the ICANN Board of Directors that the ccNSO did
> not find itself in a position to nominate candidates for the RDS/ WHOIS2
> Review Team, and deferred participation in this specific review.
>
>
>
> On 18 January 2018, the ccNSO Council again discussed its participation in
> the review. Following this discussion, by 16 February 2018, the ccNSO
> Council decided not to participate in the RDS/WHOIS2 specific review.
>
>
>
> The ccNSO Council thanks the volunteers who sought endorsement of the
> ccNSO.
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
>
> Katrina Sataki,
>
> Chair of the ccNSO
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> soac-chairs mailing list
> soac-chairs at icann.org
> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/soac-chairs
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_listinfo_soac-2Dchairs&d=DwMFaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=CwipU91YB6EkpFXK9ynnT_QUef4yC5p7jpsDm8cU97g&m=z_9KlnGUQfzfjAPK60pwOGQ2z1_9dnUTx9nfWFZ0teA&s=bckZA-Th5eFVMWmo4Yk61megNGgOUiJTbBHZaB-WcDg&e=>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
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From mpsilvavalent at gmail.com  Thu Mar 22 23:27:00 2018
From: mpsilvavalent at gmail.com (Martin Pablo Silva Valent)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2018 18:27:00 -0300
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Fwd: Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs]
 ccNSO Council resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
In-Reply-To: <CAH5sThnLbzKmL2dEmJTb7NcqAPb-_DoSXwoc-Y4OW6LEUOKRqA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <010f01d3c21c$1393ea10$3abbbe30$@cabase.org.ar>
 <4e68daa9-8a37-c3bb-09da-16da6f910276@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAH5sThnLbzKmL2dEmJTb7NcqAPb-_DoSXwoc-Y4OW6LEUOKRqA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BA8EB441-D1CC-4918-AD5F-1CA7F2152F9C@gmail.com>

I agree with Rafik, without a clear output on where this leads (rules to restart, timeline, what happens with the things that do need to be address, etc) to we should retrain from approving a stop. Is part of the ?management? at council level to take a knowledgeable decision on how to address it, if not, someone else might decide for us.

Cheers,
Mart?n

> On 22 Mar 2018, at 18:22, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi ,
> 
> 
> I would be more cautious here, contracted trying to be too tactical but there may be unintended consequences. We heard Goran many times last talking about proposing changes to reviews but we have no idea about specifics. Pausing may just lead somehow to less serious and small in scope reviews in future with whatever ICANN wants to propose.
> Pausing without clear conditions for restart will be another SSR2 drama and playing into narrative that community cannot manage those processes. 
> 
> Best,
> 
> Rafik 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 6:10 AM Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
> Interesting.  DO we have a view on this folks?  I would not object to putting the RDS review on hold.  Far too much to keep track of, notably GDPR and the Privacy proxy services IRT.
> 
> Steph
> 
> 
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> Subject:	Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
> Date:	Thu, 22 Mar 2018 17:26:35 -0300
> From:	Anthony Harris <harris at cabase.org.ar> <mailto:harris at cabase.org.ar>
> To:	'PAMELA LITTLE' <pam.little at alibaba-inc.com> <mailto:pam.little at alibaba-inc.com>, 'Heather Forrest' <haforrestesq at gmail.com> <mailto:haforrestesq at gmail.com>, 'GNSO Council List' <council at gnso.icann.org> <mailto:council at gnso.icann.org>, 'Austin, Donna' <Donna.Austin at team.neustar> <mailto:Donna.Austin at team.neustar>
> 
> I support Pam?s suggestion.
> 
>  
> 
> Tony Harris
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Antonio Harris
> Director Ejecutivo
> 
> C?mara Argentina de Internet
> Suipacha 128 - 3 "F" - Tel: (5411) 5263-7456
> harris at cabase.org.ar <mailto:harris at cabase.org.ar> ? www.cabase.org.ar <http://www.cabase.org.ar/>
>   <http://www.facebook.com/CabaseAr/>  <http://twitter.com/CabaseAr>  <http://www.linkedin.com/company/562172?trk=tyah&trkInfo=clickedVertical%3Acompany%2CclickedEntityId%3A562172%2Cidx%3A2-1-2%2CtarId%3A1454513596509%2Ctas%3Acabase> 
> 
>  No me imprimas si no es necesario. Protejamos el medio ambiente
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> De: council [mailto:council-bounces at gnso.icann.org <mailto:council-bounces at gnso.icann.org>] En nombre de PAMELA LITTLE
> Enviado el: mi?rcoles, 21 de marzo de 2018 0:55
> Para: Heather Forrest; GNSO Council List; Austin, Donna
> Asunto: Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
> 
>  
> 
> In addition to bandwidth issue and in light of the discussions around ICANN budget and GDPR at ICANN61, perhaps the community should consider a deferral/pause of this review.  
> 
>  
> 
> Also, see below excerpt of Goran's latest blog https://www.icann.org/news/blog/budget-discussions-at-icann61 <https://www.icann.org/news/blog/budget-discussions-at-icann61>:
> 
>  
> 
> "...and for the RDS Review, there is still significant work remaining to address the impacts of the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) on the WHOIS system. Delaying either of these reviews would save many hours of volunteer time. Additionally, and more broadly, addressing the timing of reviews, and approach, will contribute to discussing how to make future reviews more efficient and more relevant. Deferring a review that will be impacted by current Policy Development Processes or other outside factors, could have significant savings on productivity and cost."
> 
>  
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
>  
> 
> Pam
> 
>  
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Sender:Austin, Donna via council <council at gnso.icann.org <mailto:council at gnso.icann.org>>
> 
> Sent at:2018 Mar 21 (Wed) 07:34
> 
> To:Heather Forrest <haforrestesq at gmail.com <mailto:haforrestesq at gmail.com>>; GNSO Council List <council at gnso.icann.org <mailto:council at gnso.icann.org>>
> 
> Subject:Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
> 
>  
> 
> Heather, Susan
> 
>  
> 
> Where does this leave the RDS Review Team in terms of adequate membership? I know Susan has raised concerns previously that there isn?t enough people to do the work.
> 
>  
> 
> Is it possible for the GNSO to recommend additional candidates to fill the vacancies left by the ccNSO?s decision not to appoint volunteers?
> 
>  
> 
> Donna
> 
>  
> 
> From: council [mailto:council-bounces at gnso.icann.org <mailto:council-bounces at gnso.icann.org>] On Behalf Of Heather Forrest
> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 10:51 AM
> To: GNSO Council List <council at gnso.icann.org <mailto:council at gnso.icann.org>>
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] [council] Fwd: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
> 
>  
> 
> Dear Council colleagues,
> 
>  
> 
> Please note the ccNSO's affirmed position on RDS/WHOIS2 RT.
> 
>  
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
>  
> 
> Heather
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Katrina Sataki <katrina at nic.lv <mailto:katrina at nic.lv>>
> Date: Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 1:37 PM
> Subject: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
> To: Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca <mailto:alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>>
> Cc: Goran Marby <goran.marby at icann.org <mailto:goran.marby at icann.org>>, Chris Disspain <chris.disspain at board.icann.org <mailto:chris.disspain at board.icann.org>>, mike.silber at board.icann.org <mailto:mike.silber at board.icann.org>, SOAC Chairs <soac-chairs at icann.org <mailto:soac-chairs at icann.org>>
> 
> 7 March 2018
> 
>  
> 
> To: Alan Greenberg, RDS/WHOIS 2 Review Team, Chair
> 
> CC: Chris Disspain, Mike Silber, G?ran Marby, Chairs of ALAC, ASO, GAC, GNSO, SSAC, RSAC 
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Dear Alan,
> 
>  
> 
> In May 2017, we informed the ICANN Board of Directors that the ccNSO did not find itself in a position to nominate candidates for the RDS/ WHOIS2 Review Team, and deferred participation in this specific review. 
> 
>  
> 
> On 18 January 2018, the ccNSO Council again discussed its participation in the review. Following this discussion, by 16 February 2018, the ccNSO Council decided not to participate in the RDS/WHOIS2 specific review.
> 
>  
> 
> The ccNSO Council thanks the volunteers who sought endorsement of the ccNSO.
> 
>  
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
>  
> 
> Katrina Sataki,
> 
> Chair of the ccNSO 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> soac-chairs mailing list
> soac-chairs at icann.org <mailto:soac-chairs at icann.org>
> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/soac-chairs <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_listinfo_soac-2Dchairs&d=DwMFaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=CwipU91YB6EkpFXK9ynnT_QUef4yC5p7jpsDm8cU97g&m=z_9KlnGUQfzfjAPK60pwOGQ2z1_9dnUTx9nfWFZ0teA&s=bckZA-Th5eFVMWmo4Yk61megNGgOUiJTbBHZaB-WcDg&e=>
>  
> 
>  
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
> <image002.png>_______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc

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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Fri Mar 23 00:02:50 2018
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2018 18:02:50 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Fwd: Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs]
 ccNSO Council resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
In-Reply-To: <CAH5sThnLbzKmL2dEmJTb7NcqAPb-_DoSXwoc-Y4OW6LEUOKRqA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <010f01d3c21c$1393ea10$3abbbe30$@cabase.org.ar>
 <4e68daa9-8a37-c3bb-09da-16da6f910276@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAH5sThnLbzKmL2dEmJTb7NcqAPb-_DoSXwoc-Y4OW6LEUOKRqA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <543e899b-24d6-ebd5-4f4b-6c4b26b83aa0@mail.utoronto.ca>

fair points.

Any ideas on how to proceed?

SP

On 2018-03-22 17:22, Rafik Dammak wrote:
> Hi ,
>
>
> I would be more cautious here, contracted trying to be too tactical 
> but there may be unintended consequences. We heard Goran many times 
> last talking about proposing changes to reviews but we have no idea 
> about specifics. Pausing may just lead somehow to less serious and 
> small in scope reviews in future with whatever ICANN wants to propose.
> Pausing without clear conditions for restart will be another SSR2 
> drama and playing into narrative that community cannot manage those 
> processes.
>
> Best,
>
> Rafik
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 6:10 AM Stephanie Perrin 
> <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca 
> <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>
>     Interesting.? DO we have a view on this folks?? I would not object
>     to putting the RDS review on hold. Far too much to keep track of,
>     notably GDPR and the Privacy proxy services IRT.
>
>     Steph
>
>
>
>     -------- Forwarded Message --------
>     Subject: 	Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs] ccNSO
>     Council resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
>     Date: 	Thu, 22 Mar 2018 17:26:35 -0300
>     From: 	Anthony Harris <harris at cabase.org.ar>
>     <mailto:harris at cabase.org.ar>
>     To: 	'PAMELA LITTLE' <pam.little at alibaba-inc.com>
>     <mailto:pam.little at alibaba-inc.com>, 'Heather Forrest'
>     <haforrestesq at gmail.com> <mailto:haforrestesq at gmail.com>, 'GNSO
>     Council List' <council at gnso.icann.org>
>     <mailto:council at gnso.icann.org>, 'Austin, Donna'
>     <Donna.Austin at team.neustar> <mailto:Donna.Austin at team.neustar>
>
>
>
>     I support Pam?s suggestion.
>
>     Tony Harris
>
>
>     Logo
>
>     	
>
>     Antonio Harris
>     /Director Ejecutivo/
>
>     C?mara Argentina de Internet
>     Suipacha 128 - 3 "F"- Tel: (5411) 5263-7456
>     harris at cabase.org.ar <mailto:harris at cabase.org.ar>??
>     www.cabase.org.ar <http://www.cabase.org.ar>
>
>     facebook <http://www.facebook.com/CabaseAr/>twitter
>     <http://twitter.com/CabaseAr>linkedIn
>     <http://www.linkedin.com/company/562172?trk=tyah&trkInfo=clickedVertical%3Acompany%2CclickedEntityId%3A562172%2Cidx%3A2-1-2%2CtarId%3A1454513596509%2Ctas%3Acabase>
>
>     eco?No me imprimas si no es necesario. Protejamos el medio ambiente
>
>     *De:*council [mailto:council-bounces at gnso.icann.org] *En nombre de
>     *PAMELA LITTLE
>     *Enviado el:* mi?rcoles, 21 de marzo de 2018 0:55
>     *Para:* Heather Forrest; GNSO Council List; Austin, Donna
>     *Asunto:* Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs] ccNSO
>     Council resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
>
>     In addition to bandwidth issue//and in light of//the discussions
>     around ICANN budget and GDPR at ICANN61, perhaps the community
>     should consider a deferral/pause of this review.
>
>     Also,?see below excerpt of Goran's latest blog
>     https://www.icann.org/news/blog/budget-discussions-at-icann61:
>
>     "...and for the RDS Review, there is still significant work
>     remaining to address the impacts of the General Data Protection
>     Regulation (GDPR) on the WHOIS system. Delaying either of these
>     reviews would save many hours of volunteer time. Additionally, and
>     more broadly, addressing the timing of reviews, and approach, will
>     contribute to discussing how to make future reviews more efficient
>     and more relevant. Deferring a review that will be impacted by
>     current Policy Development Processes or other outside factors,
>     could have significant savings on productivity and cost."
>
>     Kind regards,
>
>     Pam
>
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>         Sender:Austin, Donna via council <council at gnso.icann.org
>         <mailto:council at gnso.icann.org>>
>
>         Sent at:2018 Mar 21 (Wed) 07:34
>
>         To:Heather Forrest <haforrestesq at gmail.com
>         <mailto:haforrestesq at gmail.com>>; GNSO Council List
>         <council at gnso.icann.org <mailto:council at gnso.icann.org>>
>
>         Subject:Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs] ccNSO
>         Council resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
>
>         Heather, Susan
>
>         Where does this leave the RDS Review Team in terms of adequate
>         membership? I know Susan has raised concerns previously that
>         there isn?t enough people to do the work.
>
>         Is it possible for the GNSO to recommend additional candidates
>         to fill the vacancies left by the ccNSO?s decision not to
>         appoint volunteers?
>
>         Donna
>
>         *From:*council [mailto:council-bounces at gnso.icann.org] *On
>         Behalf Of *Heather Forrest
>         *Sent:* Tuesday, March 13, 2018 10:51 AM
>         *To:* GNSO Council List <council at gnso.icann.org
>         <mailto:council at gnso.icann.org>>
>         *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] [council] Fwd: [soac-chairs] ccNSO
>         Council resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
>
>         Dear Council colleagues,
>
>         Please note the ccNSO's affirmed position on RDS/WHOIS2 RT.
>
>         Best wishes,
>
>         Heather
>
>         ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>         From: *Katrina Sataki* <katrina at nic.lv <mailto:katrina at nic.lv>>
>         Date: Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 1:37 PM
>         Subject: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council resolves not to
>         participate in RDS/WHOIS2
>         To: Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca
>         <mailto:alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>>
>         Cc: Goran Marby <goran.marby at icann.org
>         <mailto:goran.marby at icann.org>>, Chris Disspain
>         <chris.disspain at board.icann.org
>         <mailto:chris.disspain at board.icann.org>>,
>         mike.silber at board.icann.org
>         <mailto:mike.silber at board.icann.org>, SOAC Chairs
>         <soac-chairs at icann.org <mailto:soac-chairs at icann.org>>
>
>         7 March 2018
>
>         To: Alan Greenberg, RDS/WHOIS 2 Review Team, Chair
>
>         CC: Chris Disspain, Mike Silber, G?ran Marby, Chairs of ALAC,
>         ASO, GAC, GNSO, SSAC, RSAC
>
>         Dear Alan,
>
>         In May 2017, we informed the ICANN Board of Directors that the
>         ccNSO did not find itself in a position to nominate candidates
>         for the RDS/ WHOIS2 Review Team, and deferred participation in
>         this specific review.
>
>         On 18 January 2018, the ccNSO Council again discussed its
>         participation in the review. Following this discussion, by 16
>         February 2018, the ccNSO Council decided not to participate in
>         the RDS/WHOIS2 specific review.
>
>         The ccNSO Council thanks the volunteers who sought endorsement
>         of the ccNSO.
>
>         Kind regards,
>
>         Katrina Sataki,
>
>         Chair of the ccNSO
>
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         soac-chairs mailing list
>         soac-chairs at icann.org <mailto:soac-chairs at icann.org>
>         https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/soac-chairs
>         <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_listinfo_soac-2Dchairs&d=DwMFaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=CwipU91YB6EkpFXK9ynnT_QUef4yC5p7jpsDm8cU97g&m=z_9KlnGUQfzfjAPK60pwOGQ2z1_9dnUTx9nfWFZ0teA&s=bckZA-Th5eFVMWmo4Yk61megNGgOUiJTbBHZaB-WcDg&e=>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     NCSG-PC mailing list
>     NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>     https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
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From rafik.dammak at gmail.com  Fri Mar 23 00:18:19 2018
From: rafik.dammak at gmail.com (Rafik Dammak)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2018 22:18:19 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Fwd: Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs]
 ccNSO Council resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
In-Reply-To: <543e899b-24d6-ebd5-4f4b-6c4b26b83aa0@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <010f01d3c21c$1393ea10$3abbbe30$@cabase.org.ar>
 <4e68daa9-8a37-c3bb-09da-16da6f910276@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAH5sThnLbzKmL2dEmJTb7NcqAPb-_DoSXwoc-Y4OW6LEUOKRqA@mail.gmail.com>
 <543e899b-24d6-ebd5-4f4b-6c4b26b83aa0@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <CAH5sTh=QBB_p58V1cCm=-fdPGAwusyStAV8NSUO=-RBLyBEm2g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Stephanie,

Maybe we should know better about the cureent status and progress of the
review team?did it work on term of references and scoping yet or not?

Best,

Rafik

On Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 7:02 AM Stephanie Perrin <
stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:

> fair points.
>
> Any ideas on how to proceed?
>
> SP
> On 2018-03-22 17:22, Rafik Dammak wrote:
>
> Hi ,
>
>
> I would be more cautious here, contracted trying to be too tactical but
> there may be unintended consequences. We heard Goran many times last
> talking about proposing changes to reviews but we have no idea about
> specifics. Pausing may just lead somehow to less serious and small in scope
> reviews in future with whatever ICANN wants to propose.
> Pausing without clear conditions for restart will be another SSR2 drama
> and playing into narrative that community cannot manage those processes.
>
> Best,
>
> Rafik
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 6:10 AM Stephanie Perrin <
> stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
>
>> Interesting.  DO we have a view on this folks?  I would not object to
>> putting the RDS review on hold.  Far too much to keep track of, notably
>> GDPR and the Privacy proxy services IRT.
>>
>> Steph
>>
>>
>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>> Subject: Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council
>> resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
>> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2018 17:26:35 -0300
>> From: Anthony Harris <harris at cabase.org.ar> <harris at cabase.org.ar>
>> To: 'PAMELA LITTLE' <pam.little at alibaba-inc.com>
>> <pam.little at alibaba-inc.com>, 'Heather Forrest' <haforrestesq at gmail.com>
>> <haforrestesq at gmail.com>, 'GNSO Council List' <council at gnso.icann.org>
>> <council at gnso.icann.org>, 'Austin, Donna' <Donna.Austin at team.neustar>
>> <Donna.Austin at team.neustar>
>>
>> I support Pam?s suggestion.
>>
>>
>>
>> Tony Harris
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: Logo]
>>
>> Antonio Harris
>> *Director Ejecutivo*
>>
>> C?mara Argentina de Internet
>> Suipacha 128 - 3 "F" - Tel: (5411) 5263-7456
>> harris at cabase.org.ar ? www.cabase.org.ar
>>
>>  [image: facebook] <http://www.facebook.com/CabaseAr/> [image: twitter]
>> <http://twitter.com/CabaseAr> [image: linkedIn]
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/company/562172?trk=tyah&trkInfo=clickedVertical%3Acompany%2CclickedEntityId%3A562172%2Cidx%3A2-1-2%2CtarId%3A1454513596509%2Ctas%3Acabase>
>>
>>
>> [image: eco] No me imprimas si no es necesario. Protejamos el medio
>> ambiente
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *De:* council [mailto:council-bounces at gnso.icann.org
>> <council-bounces at gnso.icann.org>] *En nombre de *PAMELA LITTLE
>> *Enviado el:* mi?rcoles, 21 de marzo de 2018 0:55
>> *Para:* Heather Forrest; GNSO Council List; Austin, Donna
>> *Asunto:* Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council
>> resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
>>
>>
>>
>> In addition to bandwidth issue and in light of the discussions around
>> ICANN budget and GDPR at ICANN61, perhaps the community should consider a
>> deferral/pause of this review.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also, see below excerpt of Goran's latest blog
>> https://www.icann.org/news/blog/budget-discussions-at-icann61:
>>
>>
>>
>> "...and for the RDS Review, there is still significant work remaining to
>> address the impacts of the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) on the
>> WHOIS system. Delaying either of these reviews would save many hours of
>> volunteer time. Additionally, and more broadly, addressing the timing of
>> reviews, and approach, will contribute to discussing how to make future
>> reviews more efficient and more relevant. Deferring a review that will be
>> impacted by current Policy Development Processes or other outside factors,
>> could have significant savings on productivity and cost."
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Pam
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Sender:Austin, Donna via council <council at gnso.icann.org>
>>
>> Sent at:2018 Mar 21 (Wed) 07:34
>>
>> To:Heather Forrest <haforrestesq at gmail.com>; GNSO Council List <
>> council at gnso.icann.org>
>>
>> Subject:Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council
>> resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
>>
>>
>>
>> Heather, Susan
>>
>>
>>
>> Where does this leave the RDS Review Team in terms of adequate
>> membership? I know Susan has raised concerns previously that there isn?t
>> enough people to do the work.
>>
>>
>>
>> Is it possible for the GNSO to recommend additional candidates to fill
>> the vacancies left by the ccNSO?s decision not to appoint volunteers?
>>
>>
>>
>> Donna
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* council [mailto:council-bounces at gnso.icann.org
>> <council-bounces at gnso.icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *Heather Forrest
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 13, 2018 10:51 AM
>> *To:* GNSO Council List <council at gnso.icann.org>
>> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] [council] Fwd: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council
>> resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Council colleagues,
>>
>>
>>
>> Please note the ccNSO's affirmed position on RDS/WHOIS2 RT.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>>
>>
>> Heather
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: *Katrina Sataki* <katrina at nic.lv>
>> Date: Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 1:37 PM
>> Subject: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council resolves not to participate in
>> RDS/WHOIS2
>> To: Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>
>> Cc: Goran Marby <goran.marby at icann.org>, Chris Disspain <
>> chris.disspain at board.icann.org>, mike.silber at board.icann.org, SOAC
>> Chairs <soac-chairs at icann.org>
>>
>> 7 March 2018
>>
>>
>>
>> To: Alan Greenberg, RDS/WHOIS 2 Review Team, Chair
>>
>> CC: Chris Disspain, Mike Silber, G?ran Marby, Chairs of ALAC, ASO, GAC,
>> GNSO, SSAC, RSAC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Alan,
>>
>>
>>
>> In May 2017, we informed the ICANN Board of Directors that the ccNSO did
>> not find itself in a position to nominate candidates for the RDS/ WHOIS2
>> Review Team, and deferred participation in this specific review.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 18 January 2018, the ccNSO Council again discussed its participation
>> in the review. Following this discussion, by 16 February 2018, the ccNSO
>> Council decided not to participate in the RDS/WHOIS2 specific review.
>>
>>
>>
>> The ccNSO Council thanks the volunteers who sought endorsement of the
>> ccNSO.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Katrina Sataki,
>>
>> Chair of the ccNSO
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> soac-chairs mailing list
>> soac-chairs at icann.org
>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/soac-chairs
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_listinfo_soac-2Dchairs&d=DwMFaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=CwipU91YB6EkpFXK9ynnT_QUef4yC5p7jpsDm8cU97g&m=z_9KlnGUQfzfjAPK60pwOGQ2z1_9dnUTx9nfWFZ0teA&s=bckZA-Th5eFVMWmo4Yk61megNGgOUiJTbBHZaB-WcDg&e=>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>
>
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From arsenebaguma at gmail.com  Fri Mar 23 15:29:32 2018
From: arsenebaguma at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ars=C3=A8ne_Tungali?=)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 15:29:32 +0200
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Fwd: Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs]
 ccNSO Council resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
In-Reply-To: <CAH5sTh=QBB_p58V1cCm=-fdPGAwusyStAV8NSUO=-RBLyBEm2g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <010f01d3c21c$1393ea10$3abbbe30$@cabase.org.ar>
 <4e68daa9-8a37-c3bb-09da-16da6f910276@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAH5sThnLbzKmL2dEmJTb7NcqAPb-_DoSXwoc-Y4OW6LEUOKRqA@mail.gmail.com>
 <543e899b-24d6-ebd5-4f4b-6c4b26b83aa0@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAH5sTh=QBB_p58V1cCm=-fdPGAwusyStAV8NSUO=-RBLyBEm2g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABDXvWrfOtnWWK-3G5ysG3F9Q+0PXG+5W9=E+m4rGZG=kpRrGw@mail.gmail.com>

I thought Stephanie was part of the RDS RT?

------------------------
**Ars?ne Tungali* <http://about.me/ArseneTungali>*
Co-Founder & Executive Director, *Rudi international
<http://www.rudiinternational.org>*,
CEO,* Smart Services Sarl <http://www.smart-serv.info>*, *Mabingwa Forum
<http://www.mabingwa-forum.com>*
Tel: +243 993810967
GPG: 523644A0
*Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo*

2015 Mandela Washington Felllow
<http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html>
(YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF Brazil
<http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/igf-ambassadors-programme/Past-Ambassadors>
& Mexico
<http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/Current-Ambassadors>)
- AFRISIG 2016 <http://afrisig.org/afrisig-2016/class-of-2016/> - Blogger
<http://tungali.blogspot.com> - ICANN's GNSO Council
<https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm> Member. AFRINIC Fellow (
Mauritius
<http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/1907-afrinic-25-fellowship-winners>)*
- *IGFSA Member <http://www.igfsa.org/> - Internet Governance - Internet
Freedom.

Check the *2016 State of Internet Freedom in DRC* report (English
<http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=234>) and (French
<http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=242>)

2018-03-23 0:18 GMT+02:00 Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com>:

> Hi Stephanie,
>
> Maybe we should know better about the cureent status and progress of the
> review team?did it work on term of references and scoping yet or not?
>
> Best,
>
> Rafik
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 7:02 AM Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.
> utoronto.ca> wrote:
>
>> fair points.
>>
>> Any ideas on how to proceed?
>>
>> SP
>> On 2018-03-22 17:22, Rafik Dammak wrote:
>>
>> Hi ,
>>
>>
>> I would be more cautious here, contracted trying to be too tactical but
>> there may be unintended consequences. We heard Goran many times last
>> talking about proposing changes to reviews but we have no idea about
>> specifics. Pausing may just lead somehow to less serious and small in scope
>> reviews in future with whatever ICANN wants to propose.
>> Pausing without clear conditions for restart will be another SSR2 drama
>> and playing into narrative that community cannot manage those processes.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Rafik
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 6:10 AM Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.
>> utoronto.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting.  DO we have a view on this folks?  I would not object to
>>> putting the RDS review on hold.  Far too much to keep track of, notably
>>> GDPR and the Privacy proxy services IRT.
>>>
>>> Steph
>>>
>>>
>>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>> Subject: Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council
>>> resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
>>> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2018 17:26:35 -0300
>>> From: Anthony Harris <harris at cabase.org.ar> <harris at cabase.org.ar>
>>> To: 'PAMELA LITTLE' <pam.little at alibaba-inc.com>
>>> <pam.little at alibaba-inc.com>, 'Heather Forrest' <haforrestesq at gmail.com>
>>> <haforrestesq at gmail.com>, 'GNSO Council List' <council at gnso.icann.org>
>>> <council at gnso.icann.org>, 'Austin, Donna' <Donna.Austin at team.neustar>
>>> <Donna.Austin at team.neustar>
>>>
>>> I support Pam?s suggestion.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Tony Harris
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: Logo]
>>>
>>> Antonio Harris
>>> *Director Ejecutivo*
>>>
>>> C?mara Argentina de Internet
>>> Suipacha 128 - 3 "F" - Tel: (5411) 5263-7456
>>> harris at cabase.org.ar ? www.cabase.org.ar
>>>
>>>  [image: facebook] <http://www.facebook.com/CabaseAr/> [image: twitter]
>>> <http://twitter.com/CabaseAr> [image: linkedIn]
>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/company/562172?trk=tyah&trkInfo=clickedVertical%3Acompany%2CclickedEntityId%3A562172%2Cidx%3A2-1-2%2CtarId%3A1454513596509%2Ctas%3Acabase>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: eco] No me imprimas si no es necesario. Protejamos el medio
>>> ambiente
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *De:* council [mailto:council-bounces at gnso.icann.org
>>> <council-bounces at gnso.icann.org>] *En nombre de *PAMELA LITTLE
>>> *Enviado el:* mi?rcoles, 21 de marzo de 2018 0:55
>>> *Para:* Heather Forrest; GNSO Council List; Austin, Donna
>>> *Asunto:* Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council
>>> resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In addition to bandwidth issue and in light of the discussions around
>>> ICANN budget and GDPR at ICANN61, perhaps the community should consider a
>>> deferral/pause of this review.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Also, see below excerpt of Goran's latest blog https://www.icann.org/
>>> news/blog/budget-discussions-at-icann61:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "...and for the RDS Review, there is still significant work remaining to
>>> address the impacts of the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) on the
>>> WHOIS system. Delaying either of these reviews would save many hours of
>>> volunteer time. Additionally, and more broadly, addressing the timing of
>>> reviews, and approach, will contribute to discussing how to make future
>>> reviews more efficient and more relevant. Deferring a review that will be
>>> impacted by current Policy Development Processes or other outside factors,
>>> could have significant savings on productivity and cost."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Pam
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Sender:Austin, Donna via council <council at gnso.icann.org>
>>>
>>> Sent at:2018 Mar 21 (Wed) 07:34
>>>
>>> To:Heather Forrest <haforrestesq at gmail.com>; GNSO Council List <
>>> council at gnso.icann.org>
>>>
>>> Subject:Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council
>>> resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Heather, Susan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Where does this leave the RDS Review Team in terms of adequate
>>> membership? I know Susan has raised concerns previously that there isn?t
>>> enough people to do the work.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Is it possible for the GNSO to recommend additional candidates to fill
>>> the vacancies left by the ccNSO?s decision not to appoint volunteers?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Donna
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* council [mailto:council-bounces at gnso.icann.org
>>> <council-bounces at gnso.icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *Heather Forrest
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 13, 2018 10:51 AM
>>> *To:* GNSO Council List <council at gnso.icann.org>
>>> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] [council] Fwd: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council
>>> resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Council colleagues,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Please note the ccNSO's affirmed position on RDS/WHOIS2 RT.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Heather
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: *Katrina Sataki* <katrina at nic.lv>
>>> Date: Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 1:37 PM
>>> Subject: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council resolves not to participate in
>>> RDS/WHOIS2
>>> To: Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>
>>> Cc: Goran Marby <goran.marby at icann.org>, Chris Disspain <
>>> chris.disspain at board.icann.org>, mike.silber at board.icann.org, SOAC
>>> Chairs <soac-chairs at icann.org>
>>>
>>> 7 March 2018
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To: Alan Greenberg, RDS/WHOIS 2 Review Team, Chair
>>>
>>> CC: Chris Disspain, Mike Silber, G?ran Marby, Chairs of ALAC, ASO, GAC,
>>> GNSO, SSAC, RSAC
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Alan,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In May 2017, we informed the ICANN Board of Directors that the ccNSO did
>>> not find itself in a position to nominate candidates for the RDS/ WHOIS2
>>> Review Team, and deferred participation in this specific review.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 18 January 2018, the ccNSO Council again discussed its participation
>>> in the review. Following this discussion, by 16 February 2018, the ccNSO
>>> Council decided not to participate in the RDS/WHOIS2 specific review.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The ccNSO Council thanks the volunteers who sought endorsement of the
>>> ccNSO.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Katrina Sataki,
>>>
>>> Chair of the ccNSO
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> soac-chairs mailing list
>>> soac-chairs at icann.org
>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/soac-chairs
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_listinfo_soac-2Dchairs&d=DwMFaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=CwipU91YB6EkpFXK9ynnT_QUef4yC5p7jpsDm8cU97g&m=z_9KlnGUQfzfjAPK60pwOGQ2z1_9dnUTx9nfWFZ0teA&s=bckZA-Th5eFVMWmo4Yk61megNGgOUiJTbBHZaB-WcDg&e=>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
>
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Fri Mar 23 18:09:38 2018
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 12:09:38 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Fwd: Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs]
 ccNSO Council resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
In-Reply-To: <CABDXvWrfOtnWWK-3G5ysG3F9Q+0PXG+5W9=E+m4rGZG=kpRrGw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <010f01d3c21c$1393ea10$3abbbe30$@cabase.org.ar>
 <4e68daa9-8a37-c3bb-09da-16da6f910276@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAH5sThnLbzKmL2dEmJTb7NcqAPb-_DoSXwoc-Y4OW6LEUOKRqA@mail.gmail.com>
 <543e899b-24d6-ebd5-4f4b-6c4b26b83aa0@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAH5sTh=QBB_p58V1cCm=-fdPGAwusyStAV8NSUO=-RBLyBEm2g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABDXvWrfOtnWWK-3G5ysG3F9Q+0PXG+5W9=E+m4rGZG=kpRrGw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46c250e3-770c-9d93-50ee-2f71256d28b1@mail.utoronto.ca>

Indeed I am.? And I can testify that progress is slow, having just got 
off call number 23 this morning.

Here is a slide deck that shows where we are.

On 2018-03-23 09:29, Ars?ne Tungali wrote:
> I thought Stephanie was part of the RDS RT?
>
> ------------------------
> **Ars?ne Tungali* <http://about.me/ArseneTungali>*
> Co-Founder & Executive Director, /Rudi international 
> <http://www.rudiinternational.org>/,
> CEO,/Smart Services Sarl <http://www.smart-serv.info>/, /Mabingwa 
> Forum <http://www.mabingwa-forum.com>/
> Tel: +243 993810967/
> /
> GPG: 523644A0/
> /
> _Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo_/
>
> /
> 2015 Mandela Washington Felllow 
> <http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html> 
> (YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF Brazil 
> <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/igf-ambassadors-programme/Past-Ambassadors> 
> & Mexico 
> <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/Current-Ambassadors>) 
> - AFRISIG 2016 <http://afrisig.org/afrisig-2016/class-of-2016/> - 
> Blogger <http://tungali.blogspot.com> - ICANN's GNSO Council 
> <https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm> Member.//AFRINIC 
> Fellow//(Mauritius 
> <http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/1907-afrinic-25-fellowship-winners>)/- 
> /IGFSA Member <http://www.igfsa.org/> - Internet Governance - Internet 
> Freedom.//
>
> Check the /2016 State of Internet Freedom in DRC/ report (English 
> <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=234>) and (French 
> <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=242>)
>
> 2018-03-23 0:18 GMT+02:00 Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com 
> <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com>>:
>
>     Hi Stephanie,
>
>     Maybe we should know better about the cureent status and progress
>     of the review team?did it work on term of references and scoping
>     yet or not?
>
>     Best,
>
>     Rafik
>
>
>     On Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 7:02 AM Stephanie Perrin
>     <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
>     <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>
>         fair points.
>
>         Any ideas on how to proceed?
>
>         SP
>
>         On 2018-03-22 17:22, Rafik Dammak wrote:
>>         Hi ,
>>
>>
>>         I would be more cautious here, contracted trying to be too
>>         tactical but there may be unintended consequences. We heard
>>         Goran many times last talking about proposing changes to
>>         reviews but we have no idea about specifics. Pausing may just
>>         lead somehow to less serious and small in scope reviews in
>>         future with whatever ICANN wants to propose.
>>         Pausing without clear conditions for restart will be another
>>         SSR2 drama and playing into narrative that community cannot
>>         manage those processes.
>>
>>         Best,
>>
>>         Rafik
>>
>>
>>         On Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 6:10 AM Stephanie Perrin
>>         <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
>>         <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>>
>>             Interesting.? DO we have a view on this folks?? I would
>>             not object to putting the RDS review on hold.? Far too
>>             much to keep track of, notably GDPR and the Privacy proxy
>>             services IRT.
>>
>>             Steph
>>
>>
>>
>>             -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>             Subject: 	Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs]
>>             ccNSO Council resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
>>             Date: 	Thu, 22 Mar 2018 17:26:35 -0300
>>             From: 	Anthony Harris <harris at cabase.org.ar>
>>             <mailto:harris at cabase.org.ar>
>>             To: 	'PAMELA LITTLE' <pam.little at alibaba-inc.com>
>>             <mailto:pam.little at alibaba-inc.com>, 'Heather Forrest'
>>             <haforrestesq at gmail.com> <mailto:haforrestesq at gmail.com>,
>>             'GNSO Council List' <council at gnso.icann.org>
>>             <mailto:council at gnso.icann.org>, 'Austin, Donna'
>>             <Donna.Austin at team.neustar>
>>             <mailto:Donna.Austin at team.neustar>
>>
>>
>>
>>             I support Pam?s suggestion.
>>
>>             Tony Harris
>>
>>
>>             Logo
>>
>>             	
>>
>>             Antonio Harris
>>             /Director Ejecutivo/
>>
>>             C?mara Argentina de Internet
>>             Suipacha 128 - 3 "F"- Tel: (5411) 5263-7456
>>             harris at cabase.org.ar <mailto:harris at cabase.org.ar>??
>>             www.cabase.org.ar <http://www.cabase.org.ar>
>>
>>             facebook <http://www.facebook.com/CabaseAr/>twitter
>>             <http://twitter.com/CabaseAr>linkedIn
>>             <http://www.linkedin.com/company/562172?trk=tyah&trkInfo=clickedVertical%3Acompany%2CclickedEntityId%3A562172%2Cidx%3A2-1-2%2CtarId%3A1454513596509%2Ctas%3Acabase>
>>
>>             eco?No me imprimas si no es necesario. Protejamos el
>>             medio ambiente
>>
>>             *De:*council [mailto:council-bounces at gnso.icann.org
>>             <mailto:council-bounces at gnso.icann.org>] *En nombre de
>>             *PAMELA LITTLE
>>             *Enviado el:* mi?rcoles, 21 de marzo de 2018 0:55
>>             *Para:* Heather Forrest; GNSO Council List; Austin, Donna
>>             *Asunto:* Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs]
>>             ccNSO Council resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
>>
>>             In addition to bandwidth issue//and in light of//the
>>             discussions around ICANN budget and GDPR at ICANN61,
>>             perhaps the community should consider a deferral/pause of
>>             this review.
>>
>>             Also,?see below excerpt of Goran's latest blog
>>             https://www.icann.org/news/blog/budget-discussions-at-icann61
>>             <https://www.icann.org/news/blog/budget-discussions-at-icann61>:
>>
>>             "...and for the RDS Review, there is still significant
>>             work remaining to address the impacts of the General Data
>>             Protection Regulation (GDPR) on the WHOIS system.
>>             Delaying either of these reviews would save many hours of
>>             volunteer time. Additionally, and more broadly,
>>             addressing the timing of reviews, and approach, will
>>             contribute to discussing how to make future reviews more
>>             efficient and more relevant. Deferring a review that will
>>             be impacted by current Policy Development Processes or
>>             other outside factors, could have significant savings on
>>             productivity and cost."
>>
>>             Kind regards,
>>
>>             Pam
>>
>>                 ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>                 Sender:Austin, Donna via council
>>                 <council at gnso.icann.org <mailto:council at gnso.icann.org>>
>>
>>                 Sent at:2018 Mar 21 (Wed) 07:34
>>
>>                 To:Heather Forrest <haforrestesq at gmail.com
>>                 <mailto:haforrestesq at gmail.com>>; GNSO Council List
>>                 <council at gnso.icann.org <mailto:council at gnso.icann.org>>
>>
>>                 Subject:Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs]
>>                 ccNSO Council resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
>>
>>                 Heather, Susan
>>
>>                 Where does this leave the RDS Review Team in terms of
>>                 adequate membership? I know Susan has raised concerns
>>                 previously that there isn?t enough people to do the
>>                 work.
>>
>>                 Is it possible for the GNSO to recommend additional
>>                 candidates to fill the vacancies left by the ccNSO?s
>>                 decision not to appoint volunteers?
>>
>>                 Donna
>>
>>                 *From:*council [mailto:council-bounces at gnso.icann.org
>>                 <mailto:council-bounces at gnso.icann.org>] *On Behalf
>>                 Of *Heather Forrest
>>                 *Sent:* Tuesday, March 13, 2018 10:51 AM
>>                 *To:* GNSO Council List <council at gnso.icann.org
>>                 <mailto:council at gnso.icann.org>>
>>                 *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] [council] Fwd: [soac-chairs]
>>                 ccNSO Council resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
>>
>>                 Dear Council colleagues,
>>
>>                 Please note the ccNSO's affirmed position on
>>                 RDS/WHOIS2 RT.
>>
>>                 Best wishes,
>>
>>                 Heather
>>
>>                 ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>                 From: *Katrina Sataki* <katrina at nic.lv
>>                 <mailto:katrina at nic.lv>>
>>                 Date: Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 1:37 PM
>>                 Subject: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council resolves not to
>>                 participate in RDS/WHOIS2
>>                 To: Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca
>>                 <mailto:alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>>
>>                 Cc: Goran Marby <goran.marby at icann.org
>>                 <mailto:goran.marby at icann.org>>, Chris Disspain
>>                 <chris.disspain at board.icann.org
>>                 <mailto:chris.disspain at board.icann.org>>,
>>                 mike.silber at board.icann.org
>>                 <mailto:mike.silber at board.icann.org>, SOAC Chairs
>>                 <soac-chairs at icann.org <mailto:soac-chairs at icann.org>>
>>
>>                 7 March 2018
>>
>>                 To: Alan Greenberg, RDS/WHOIS 2 Review Team, Chair
>>
>>                 CC: Chris Disspain, Mike Silber, G?ran Marby, Chairs
>>                 of ALAC, ASO, GAC, GNSO, SSAC, RSAC
>>
>>                 Dear Alan,
>>
>>                 In May 2017, we informed the ICANN Board of Directors
>>                 that the ccNSO did not find itself in a position to
>>                 nominate candidates for the RDS/ WHOIS2 Review Team,
>>                 and deferred participation in this specific review.
>>
>>                 On 18 January 2018, the ccNSO Council again discussed
>>                 its participation in the review. Following this
>>                 discussion, by 16 February 2018, the ccNSO Council
>>                 decided not to participate in the RDS/WHOIS2 specific
>>                 review.
>>
>>                 The ccNSO Council thanks the volunteers who sought
>>                 endorsement of the ccNSO.
>>
>>                 Kind regards,
>>
>>                 Katrina Sataki,
>>
>>                 Chair of the ccNSO
>>
>>
>>                 _______________________________________________
>>                 soac-chairs mailing list
>>                 soac-chairs at icann.org <mailto:soac-chairs at icann.org>
>>                 https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/soac-chairs
>>                 <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_listinfo_soac-2Dchairs&d=DwMFaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=CwipU91YB6EkpFXK9ynnT_QUef4yC5p7jpsDm8cU97g&m=z_9KlnGUQfzfjAPK60pwOGQ2z1_9dnUTx9nfWFZ0teA&s=bckZA-Th5eFVMWmo4Yk61megNGgOUiJTbBHZaB-WcDg&e=>
>>
>>             _______________________________________________
>>             NCSG-PC mailing list
>>             NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>             https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>             <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     NCSG-PC mailing list
>     NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>     https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
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From icann at ferdeline.com  Fri Mar 23 18:16:45 2018
From: icann at ferdeline.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ayden_F=C3=A9rdeline?=)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 12:16:45 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Fwd: Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs]
 ccNSO Council resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
In-Reply-To: <46c250e3-770c-9d93-50ee-2f71256d28b1@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <010f01d3c21c$1393ea10$3abbbe30$@cabase.org.ar>
 <4e68daa9-8a37-c3bb-09da-16da6f910276@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAH5sThnLbzKmL2dEmJTb7NcqAPb-_DoSXwoc-Y4OW6LEUOKRqA@mail.gmail.com>
 <543e899b-24d6-ebd5-4f4b-6c4b26b83aa0@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAH5sTh=QBB_p58V1cCm=-fdPGAwusyStAV8NSUO=-RBLyBEm2g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABDXvWrfOtnWWK-3G5ysG3F9Q+0PXG+5W9=E+m4rGZG=kpRrGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <46c250e3-770c-9d93-50ee-2f71256d28b1@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <RFpKbWTVpD5S2Ch11pMi3iB9XhbhlCxgSzt0nb1Ozrn0SHjsl6hO738hSSjtP1Ps-vtrl-3hF8gD5DMO49yxnyueMan41OLILy5pMInN8dk=@ferdeline.com>

Hmm. It seems a lot of the slide deck is devoted to administrative tasks, i.e. when do we want face-to-face meetings, when should be our next call, who will update us on what... I'm almost inclined to say, 'shut it down'... an unhelpful intervention here, I know...

Ayden

??????? Original Message ???????
On 23 March 2018 4:09 PM, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:

> Indeed I am.  And I can testify that progress is slow, having just got off call number 23 this morning.
>
> Here is a slide deck that shows where we are.
>
> On 2018-03-23 09:29, Ars?ne Tungali wrote:
>
>> I thought Stephanie was part of the RDS RT?
>>
>> ------------------------
>> *[Ars?ne Tungali](http://about.me/ArseneTungali)*
>> Co-Founder & Executive Director,[Rudi international](http://www.rudiinternational.org),
>> CEO, [Smart Services Sarl](http://www.smart-serv.info), [Mabingwa Forum](http://www.mabingwa-forum.com)
>> Tel: +243 993810967
>> GPG: 523644A0
>> Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo
>>
>> [2015 Mandela Washington Felllow](http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html) (YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF [Brazil](http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/igf-ambassadors-programme/Past-Ambassadors) & [Mexico](http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/Current-Ambassadors)) - [AFRISIG 2016](http://afrisig.org/afrisig-2016/class-of-2016/) - [Blogger](http://tungali.blogspot.com) - ICANN's [GNSO Council](https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm) Member.AFRINIC Fellow([Mauritius](http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/1907-afrinic-25-fellowship-winners)) - [IGFSA Member](http://www.igfsa.org/) - Internet Governance - Internet Freedom.
>>
>> Check the 2016 State of Internet Freedom in DRC report ([English](http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=234)) and ([French](http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=242))
>>
>> 2018-03-23 0:18 GMT+02:00 Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Hi Stephanie,
>>>
>>> Maybe we should know better about the cureent status and progress of the review team?did it work on term of references and scoping yet or not?
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Rafik
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 7:02 AM Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> fair points.
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas on how to proceed?
>>>>
>>>> SP
>>>>
>>>> On 2018-03-22 17:22, Rafik Dammak wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi ,
>>>>>
>>>>> I would be more cautious here, contracted trying to be too tactical but there may be unintended consequences. We heard Goran many times last talking about proposing changes to reviews but we have no idea about specifics. Pausing may just lead somehow to less serious and small in scope reviews in future with whatever ICANN wants to propose.
>>>>> Pausing without clear conditions for restart will be another SSR2 drama and playing into narrative that community cannot manage those processes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>>
>>>>> Rafik
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 6:10 AM Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Interesting.  DO we have a view on this folks?  I would not object to putting the RDS review on hold.  Far too much to keep track of, notably GDPR and the Privacy proxy services IRT.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steph
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>>>>> Subject:	Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
>>>>>> Date:	Thu, 22 Mar 2018 17:26:35 -0300
>>>>>> From:	Anthony Harris [<harris at cabase.org.ar>](mailto:harris at cabase.org.ar)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To:	'PAMELA LITTLE' [<pam.little at alibaba-inc.com>](mailto:pam.little at alibaba-inc.com), 'Heather Forrest' [<haforrestesq at gmail.com>](mailto:haforrestesq at gmail.com), 'GNSO Council List' [<council at gnso.icann.org>](mailto:council at gnso.icann.org), 'Austin, Donna' [<Donna.Austin at team.neustar>](mailto:Donna.Austin at team.neustar)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I support Pam?s suggestion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tony Harris
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [Logo]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Antonio Harris
>>>>>> Director Ejecutivo
>>>>>>
>>>>>> C?mara Argentina de Internet
>>>>>> Suipacha 128 - 3 "F" - Tel: (5411) 5263-7456
>>>>>> harris at cabase.org.ar ? www.cabase.org.ar
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  [facebook](http://www.facebook.com/CabaseAr/) [twitter](http://twitter.com/CabaseAr) [linkedIn](http://www.linkedin.com/company/562172?trk=tyah&trkInfo=clickedVertical%3Acompany%2CclickedEntityId%3A562172%2Cidx%3A2-1-2%2CtarId%3A1454513596509%2Ctas%3Acabase)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [eco] No me imprimas si no es necesario. Protejamos el medio ambiente
>>>>>>
>>>>>> De: council [mailto:council-bounces at gnso.icann.org] En nombre de PAMELA LITTLE
>>>>>> Enviado el: mi?rcoles, 21 de marzo de 2018 0:55
>>>>>> Para: Heather Forrest; GNSO Council List; Austin, Donna
>>>>>> Asunto: Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In addition to bandwidth issue and in light of the discussions around ICANN budget and GDPR at ICANN61, perhaps the community should consider a deferral/pause of this review.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, see below excerpt of Goran's latest blog https://www.icann.org/news/blog/budget-discussions-at-icann61:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "...and for the RDS Review, there is still significant work remaining to address the impacts of the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) on the WHOIS system. Delaying either of these reviews would save many hours of volunteer time. Additionally, and more broadly, addressing the timing of reviews, and approach, will contribute to discussing how to make future reviews more efficient and more relevant. Deferring a review that will be impacted by current Policy Development Processes or other outside factors, could have significant savings on productivity and cost."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pam
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sender:Austin, Donna via council <council at gnso.icann.org>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent at:2018 Mar 21 (Wed) 07:34
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To:Heather Forrest <haforrestesq at gmail.com>; GNSO Council List <council at gnso.icann.org>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Subject:Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Heather, Susan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Where does this leave the RDS Review Team in terms of adequate membership? I know Susan has raised concerns previously that there isn?t enough people to do the work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is it possible for the GNSO to recommend additional candidates to fill the vacancies left by the ccNSO?s decision not to appoint volunteers?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Donna
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: council [mailto:council-bounces at gnso.icann.org] On Behalf Of Heather Forrest
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 10:51 AM
>>>>>>> To: GNSO Council List <council at gnso.icann.org>
>>>>>>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] [council] Fwd: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Council colleagues,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please note the ccNSO's affirmed position on RDS/WHOIS2 RT.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Heather
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>>>> From: Katrina Sataki <katrina at nic.lv>
>>>>>>> Date: Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 1:37 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
>>>>>>> To: Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>
>>>>>>> Cc: Goran Marby <goran.marby at icann.org>, Chris Disspain <chris.disspain at board.icann.org>, mike.silber at board.icann.org, SOAC Chairs <soac-chairs at icann.org>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 7 March 2018
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To: Alan Greenberg, RDS/WHOIS 2 Review Team, Chair
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> CC: Chris Disspain, Mike Silber, G?ran Marby, Chairs of ALAC, ASO, GAC, GNSO, SSAC, RSAC
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Alan,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In May 2017, we informed the ICANN Board of Directors that the ccNSO did not find itself in a position to nominate candidates for the RDS/ WHOIS2 Review Team, and deferred participation in this specific review.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 18 January 2018, the ccNSO Council again discussed its participation in the review. Following this discussion, by 16 February 2018, the ccNSO Council decided not to participate in the RDS/WHOIS2 specific review.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The ccNSO Council thanks the volunteers who sought endorsement of the ccNSO.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Katrina Sataki,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chair of the ccNSO
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> soac-chairs mailing list
>>>>>>> soac-chairs at icann.org
>>>>>>> [https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/soac-chairs](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_listinfo_soac-2Dchairs&d=DwMFaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=CwipU91YB6EkpFXK9ynnT_QUef4yC5p7jpsDm8cU97g&m=z_9KlnGUQfzfjAPK60pwOGQ2z1_9dnUTx9nfWFZ0teA&s=bckZA-Th5eFVMWmo4Yk61megNGgOUiJTbBHZaB-WcDg&e=)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Fri Mar 23 18:55:14 2018
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 12:55:14 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Fwd: Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs]
 ccNSO Council resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
In-Reply-To: <RFpKbWTVpD5S2Ch11pMi3iB9XhbhlCxgSzt0nb1Ozrn0SHjsl6hO738hSSjtP1Ps-vtrl-3hF8gD5DMO49yxnyueMan41OLILy5pMInN8dk=@ferdeline.com>
References: <010f01d3c21c$1393ea10$3abbbe30$@cabase.org.ar>
 <4e68daa9-8a37-c3bb-09da-16da6f910276@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAH5sThnLbzKmL2dEmJTb7NcqAPb-_DoSXwoc-Y4OW6LEUOKRqA@mail.gmail.com>
 <543e899b-24d6-ebd5-4f4b-6c4b26b83aa0@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAH5sTh=QBB_p58V1cCm=-fdPGAwusyStAV8NSUO=-RBLyBEm2g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABDXvWrfOtnWWK-3G5ysG3F9Q+0PXG+5W9=E+m4rGZG=kpRrGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <46c250e3-770c-9d93-50ee-2f71256d28b1@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <RFpKbWTVpD5S2Ch11pMi3iB9XhbhlCxgSzt0nb1Ozrn0SHjsl6hO738hSSjtP1Ps-vtrl-3hF8gD5DMO49yxnyueMan41OLILy5pMInN8dk=@ferdeline.com>
Message-ID: <73f3d75a-fef2-9bcb-f6cb-62b3220b789f@mail.utoronto.ca>

Possibly unhelpful, but one I can relate to.? I dont think Alan has a 
clue what we should be doing.? Susan is bound and determined we are 
going to show progress on everything she got into the first Review team 
report....

I am doing little but have more time now that I am off the other pdp. 
Will try to influence the report, which will be coming, ready or not.

cheers Steph

On 2018-03-23 12:16, Ayden F?rdeline wrote:
> Hmm. It seems a lot of the slide deck is devoted to administrative 
> tasks, i.e. when do we want face-to-face meetings, when should be our 
> next call, who will update us on what... I'm almost inclined to say, 
> 'shut it down'... an unhelpful intervention here, I know...
>
> Ayden
>
>
> ??????? Original Message ???????
> On 23 March 2018 4:09 PM, Stephanie Perrin 
> <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
>
>> Indeed I am.? And I can testify that progress is slow, having just 
>> got off call number 23 this morning.
>>
>> Here is a slide deck that shows where we are.
>>
>> On 2018-03-23 09:29, Ars?ne Tungali wrote:
>>> I thought Stephanie was part of the RDS RT?
>>>
>>> ------------------------
>>> **Ars?ne Tungali* <http://about.me/ArseneTungali>*
>>> Co-Founder & Executive Director,/Rudi international 
>>> <http://www.rudiinternational.org>/,
>>> CEO,/Smart Services Sarl <http://www.smart-serv.info>/, /Mabingwa 
>>> Forum <http://www.mabingwa-forum.com>/
>>> Tel: +243 993810967
>>> GPG: 523644A0
>>> _Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo_/
>>> /
>>> 2015 Mandela Washington Felllow 
>>> <http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html> 
>>> (YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF Brazil 
>>> <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/igf-ambassadors-programme/Past-Ambassadors> 
>>> & Mexico 
>>> <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/Current-Ambassadors>) 
>>> - AFRISIG 2016 <http://afrisig.org/afrisig-2016/class-of-2016/> - 
>>> Blogger <http://tungali.blogspot.com> - ICANN's GNSO Council 
>>> <https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm> Member.//AFRINIC 
>>> Fellow//(Mauritius 
>>> <http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/1907-afrinic-25-fellowship-winners>)/- 
>>> /IGFSA Member <http://www.igfsa.org/> - Internet Governance - 
>>> Internet Freedom.//
>>>
>>> Check the /2016 State of Internet Freedom in DRC/ report (English 
>>> <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=234>) and (French 
>>> <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=242>)
>>>
>>> 2018-03-23 0:18 GMT+02:00 Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com 
>>> <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com>>:
>>>
>>>     Hi Stephanie,
>>>
>>>     Maybe we should know better about the cureent status and
>>>     progress of the review team?did it work on term of references
>>>     and scoping yet or not?
>>>
>>>     Best,
>>>
>>>     Rafik
>>>
>>>
>>>     On Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 7:02 AM Stephanie Perrin
>>>     <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
>>>     <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         fair points.
>>>
>>>         Any ideas on how to proceed?
>>>
>>>         SP
>>>
>>>         On 2018-03-22 17:22, Rafik Dammak wrote:
>>>>         Hi ,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         I would be more cautious here, contracted trying to be too
>>>>         tactical but there may be unintended consequences. We heard
>>>>         Goran many times last talking about proposing changes to
>>>>         reviews but we have no idea about specifics. Pausing may
>>>>         just lead somehow to less serious and small in scope
>>>>         reviews in future with whatever ICANN wants to propose.
>>>>         Pausing without clear conditions for restart will be
>>>>         another SSR2 drama and playing into narrative that
>>>>         community cannot manage those processes.
>>>>
>>>>         Best,
>>>>
>>>>         Rafik
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         On Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 6:10 AM Stephanie Perrin
>>>>         <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
>>>>         <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>             Interesting.? DO we have a view on this folks?? I would
>>>>             not object to putting the RDS review on hold.? Far too
>>>>             much to keep track of, notably GDPR and the Privacy
>>>>             proxy services IRT.
>>>>
>>>>             Steph
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>             -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>>>             Subject:
>>>>             	Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs] ccNSO
>>>>             Council resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
>>>>             Date:
>>>>             	Thu, 22 Mar 2018 17:26:35 -0300
>>>>             From:
>>>>             	Anthony Harris <harris at cabase.org.ar>
>>>>             <mailto:harris at cabase.org.ar>
>>>>             To:
>>>>             	'PAMELA LITTLE' <pam.little at alibaba-inc.com>
>>>>             <mailto:pam.little at alibaba-inc.com>, 'Heather Forrest'
>>>>             <haforrestesq at gmail.com>
>>>>             <mailto:haforrestesq at gmail.com>, 'GNSO Council List'
>>>>             <council at gnso.icann.org>
>>>>             <mailto:council at gnso.icann.org>, 'Austin, Donna'
>>>>             <Donna.Austin at team.neustar>
>>>>             <mailto:Donna.Austin at team.neustar>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>             I support Pam?s suggestion.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>             Tony Harris
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>             Logo
>>>>
>>>>             	
>>>>
>>>>             Antonio Harris
>>>>             /Director Ejecutivo/
>>>>
>>>>             C?mara Argentina de Internet
>>>>             Suipacha 128 - 3 "F"- Tel: (5411) 5263-7456
>>>>             harris at cabase.org.ar <mailto:harris at cabase.org.ar>??
>>>>             www.cabase.org.ar <http://www.cabase.org.ar>
>>>>
>>>>             facebook <http://www.facebook.com/CabaseAr/>twitter
>>>>             <http://twitter.com/CabaseAr>linkedIn
>>>>             <http://www.linkedin.com/company/562172?trk=tyah&trkInfo=clickedVertical%3Acompany%2CclickedEntityId%3A562172%2Cidx%3A2-1-2%2CtarId%3A1454513596509%2Ctas%3Acabase>
>>>>
>>>>             eco?No me imprimas si no es necesario. Protejamos el
>>>>             medio ambiente
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>             *De:*council [mailto:council-bounces at gnso.icann.org
>>>>             <mailto:council-bounces at gnso.icann.org>] *En nombre de
>>>>             *PAMELA LITTLE
>>>>             *Enviado el:* mi?rcoles, 21 de marzo de 2018 0:55
>>>>             *Para:* Heather Forrest; GNSO Council List; Austin, Donna
>>>>             *Asunto:* Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs]
>>>>             ccNSO Council resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>             In addition to bandwidth issue//and in light of//the
>>>>             discussions around ICANN budget and GDPR at ICANN61,
>>>>             perhaps the community should consider a deferral/pause
>>>>             of this review.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>             Also,?see below excerpt of Goran's latest blog
>>>>             https://www.icann.org/news/blog/budget-discussions-at-icann61
>>>>             <https://www.icann.org/news/blog/budget-discussions-at-icann61>:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>             "...and for the RDS Review, there is still significant
>>>>             work remaining to address the impacts of the General
>>>>             Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) on the WHOIS system.
>>>>             Delaying either of these reviews would save many hours
>>>>             of volunteer time. Additionally, and more broadly,
>>>>             addressing the timing of reviews, and approach, will
>>>>             contribute to discussing how to make future reviews
>>>>             more efficient and more relevant. Deferring a review
>>>>             that will be impacted by current Policy Development
>>>>             Processes or other outside factors, could have
>>>>             significant savings on productivity and cost."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>             Kind regards,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>             Pam
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>                 Sender:Austin, Donna via council
>>>>                 <council at gnso.icann.org
>>>>                 <mailto:council at gnso.icann.org>>
>>>>
>>>>                 Sent at:2018 Mar 21 (Wed) 07:34
>>>>
>>>>                 To:Heather Forrest <haforrestesq at gmail.com
>>>>                 <mailto:haforrestesq at gmail.com>>; GNSO Council List
>>>>                 <council at gnso.icann.org
>>>>                 <mailto:council at gnso.icann.org>>
>>>>
>>>>                 Subject:Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs]
>>>>                 ccNSO Council resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 Heather, Susan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 Where does this leave the RDS Review Team in terms
>>>>                 of adequate membership? I know Susan has raised
>>>>                 concerns previously that there isn?t enough people
>>>>                 to do the work.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 Is it possible for the GNSO to recommend additional
>>>>                 candidates to fill the vacancies left by the
>>>>                 ccNSO?s decision not to appoint volunteers?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 Donna
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 *From:*council
>>>>                 [mailto:council-bounces at gnso.icann.org
>>>>                 <mailto:council-bounces at gnso.icann.org>] *On Behalf
>>>>                 Of *Heather Forrest
>>>>                 *Sent:* Tuesday, March 13, 2018 10:51 AM
>>>>                 *To:* GNSO Council List <council at gnso.icann.org
>>>>                 <mailto:council at gnso.icann.org>>
>>>>                 *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] [council] Fwd: [soac-chairs]
>>>>                 ccNSO Council resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 Dear Council colleagues,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 Please note the ccNSO's affirmed position on
>>>>                 RDS/WHOIS2 RT.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 Best wishes,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 Heather
>>>>
>>>>                 ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>                 From: *Katrina Sataki* <katrina at nic.lv
>>>>                 <mailto:katrina at nic.lv>>
>>>>                 Date: Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 1:37 PM
>>>>                 Subject: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council resolves not
>>>>                 to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
>>>>                 To: Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca
>>>>                 <mailto:alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>>
>>>>                 Cc: Goran Marby <goran.marby at icann.org
>>>>                 <mailto:goran.marby at icann.org>>, Chris Disspain
>>>>                 <chris.disspain at board.icann.org
>>>>                 <mailto:chris.disspain at board.icann.org>>,
>>>>                 mike.silber at board.icann.org
>>>>                 <mailto:mike.silber at board.icann.org>, SOAC Chairs
>>>>                 <soac-chairs at icann.org <mailto:soac-chairs at icann.org>>
>>>>
>>>>                 7 March 2018
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 To: Alan Greenberg, RDS/WHOIS 2 Review Team, Chair
>>>>
>>>>                 CC: Chris Disspain, Mike Silber, G?ran Marby,
>>>>                 Chairs of ALAC, ASO, GAC, GNSO, SSAC, RSAC
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 Dear Alan,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 In May 2017, we informed the ICANN Board of
>>>>                 Directors that the ccNSO did not find itself in a
>>>>                 position to nominate candidates for the RDS/ WHOIS2
>>>>                 Review Team, and deferred participation in this
>>>>                 specific review.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 On 18 January 2018, the ccNSO Council again
>>>>                 discussed its participation in the review.
>>>>                 Following this discussion, by 16 February 2018, the
>>>>                 ccNSO Council decided not to participate in the
>>>>                 RDS/WHOIS2 specific review.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 The ccNSO Council thanks the volunteers who sought
>>>>                 endorsement of the ccNSO.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 Kind regards,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 Katrina Sataki,
>>>>
>>>>                 Chair of the ccNSO
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 _______________________________________________
>>>>                 soac-chairs mailing list
>>>>                 soac-chairs at icann.org <mailto:soac-chairs at icann.org>
>>>>                 https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/soac-chairs
>>>>                 <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_listinfo_soac-2Dchairs&d=DwMFaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=CwipU91YB6EkpFXK9ynnT_QUef4yC5p7jpsDm8cU97g&m=z_9KlnGUQfzfjAPK60pwOGQ2z1_9dnUTx9nfWFZ0teA&s=bckZA-Th5eFVMWmo4Yk61megNGgOUiJTbBHZaB-WcDg&e=>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>             _______________________________________________
>>>>             NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>             NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>>             https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>>             <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>>>>
>>>
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>     NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>     https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>     <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>>>
>
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From rafik.dammak at gmail.com  Sat Mar 24 01:11:28 2018
From: rafik.dammak at gmail.com (Rafik Dammak)
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2018 08:11:28 +0900
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Fwd: Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs]
 ccNSO Council resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
In-Reply-To: <73f3d75a-fef2-9bcb-f6cb-62b3220b789f@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <010f01d3c21c$1393ea10$3abbbe30$@cabase.org.ar>
 <4e68daa9-8a37-c3bb-09da-16da6f910276@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAH5sThnLbzKmL2dEmJTb7NcqAPb-_DoSXwoc-Y4OW6LEUOKRqA@mail.gmail.com>
 <543e899b-24d6-ebd5-4f4b-6c4b26b83aa0@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAH5sTh=QBB_p58V1cCm=-fdPGAwusyStAV8NSUO=-RBLyBEm2g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABDXvWrfOtnWWK-3G5ysG3F9Q+0PXG+5W9=E+m4rGZG=kpRrGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <46c250e3-770c-9d93-50ee-2f71256d28b1@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <RFpKbWTVpD5S2Ch11pMi3iB9XhbhlCxgSzt0nb1Ozrn0SHjsl6hO738hSSjtP1Ps-vtrl-3hF8gD5DMO49yxnyueMan41OLILy5pMInN8dk=@ferdeline.com>
 <73f3d75a-fef2-9bcb-f6cb-62b3220b789f@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <CAH5sThnw2SKH7HiT0T1eFqsC6WoDh3ry_C34pqE-Pt2WHHLvnA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Stephanie,

Thanks for sharing the latest update,
I see that the RT  has several subgroups to cover different recommendations
areas (likely coming from the previous RT?).
Can I assume that RT already agreed on its ToS and scoping (only reviewing
the previous work?)? what is the agreed timeline (by when the RT is
supposed to deliver its initial and final recommendations?), with that we
can see how much it can be impacted by a possible pause.

if the activity is already slow, I don't see why we need to pause the work.
If we want to proceed with pause and have a good reason, we need to propose
some conditions to ensure that doesn't end up in limbo: timeline, the
trigger to resume the work, need or not to change the scope based GDPR
related changes.

as we are still trying to fix SSR2 and figuring out a community process to
handle such issue, I don't think to bring another case is a good idea
without a good rationale and GNSO will have to get buy-in from other ACs.
I don't really buy the budget reasoning that becomes the mantra lately,
governance and accountability m cannot be a just matter of cost, otherwise,
it will a levelling down.


Best,

Rafik

2018-03-24 1:55 GMT+09:00 Stephanie Perrin <
stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>:

> Possibly unhelpful, but one I can relate to.  I dont think Alan has a clue
> what we should be doing.  Susan is bound and determined we are going to
> show progress on everything she got into the first Review team report....
>
> I am doing little but have more time now that I am off the other pdp. Will
> try to influence the report, which will be coming, ready or not.
>
> cheers Steph
> On 2018-03-23 12:16, Ayden F?rdeline wrote:
>
> Hmm. It seems a lot of the slide deck is devoted to administrative tasks,
> i.e. when do we want face-to-face meetings, when should be our next call,
> who will update us on what... I'm almost inclined to say, 'shut it down'...
> an unhelpful intervention here, I know...
>
> Ayden
>
>
> ??????? Original Message ???????
> On 23 March 2018 4:09 PM, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.
> utoronto.ca> <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
>
> Indeed I am.  And I can testify that progress is slow, having just got off
> call number 23 this morning.
>
> Here is a slide deck that shows where we are.
> On 2018-03-23 09:29, Ars?ne Tungali wrote:
>
> I thought Stephanie was part of the RDS RT?
>
> ------------------------
> **Ars?ne Tungali* <http://about.me/ArseneTungali>*
> Co-Founder & Executive Director,*Rudi international
> <http://www.rudiinternational.org>*,
> CEO,* Smart Services Sarl <http://www.smart-serv.info>*, *Mabingwa Forum
> <http://www.mabingwa-forum.com>*
> Tel: +243 993810967 <+243%20993%20810%20967>
> GPG: 523644A0
> *Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo*
> 2015 Mandela Washington Felllow
> <http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html>
> (YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF Brazil
> <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/igf-ambassadors-programme/Past-Ambassadors>
> & Mexico
> <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/Current-Ambassadors>)
> - AFRISIG 2016 <http://afrisig.org/afrisig-2016/class-of-2016/> - Blogger
> <http://tungali.blogspot.com> - ICANN's GNSO Council
> <https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm> Member. AFRINIC Fellow
> (Mauritius
> <http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/1907-afrinic-25-fellowship-winners>
> )* - *IGFSA Member <http://www.igfsa.org/> - Internet Governance -
> Internet Freedom.
>
> Check the *2016 State of Internet Freedom in DRC* report (English
> <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=234>) and (French
> <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=242>)
>
> 2018-03-23 0:18 GMT+02:00 Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com>:
>
> Hi Stephanie,
>>
>> Maybe we should know better about the cureent status and progress of the
>> review team?did it work on term of references and scoping yet or not?
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Rafik
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 7:02 AM Stephanie Perrin <
>> stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> fair points.
>>>
>>> Any ideas on how to proceed?
>>>
>>> SP
>>> On 2018-03-22 17:22, Rafik Dammak wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi ,
>>>
>>>
>>> I would be more cautious here, contracted trying to be too tactical but
>>> there may be unintended consequences. We heard Goran many times last
>>> talking about proposing changes to reviews but we have no idea about
>>> specifics. Pausing may just lead somehow to less serious and small in scope
>>> reviews in future with whatever ICANN wants to propose.
>>> Pausing without clear conditions for restart will be another SSR2 drama
>>> and playing into narrative that community cannot manage those processes.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Rafik
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 6:10 AM Stephanie Perrin <
>>> stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Interesting.  DO we have a view on this folks?  I would not object to
>>>> putting the RDS review on hold.  Far too much to keep track of, notably
>>>> GDPR and the Privacy proxy services IRT.
>>>>
>>>> Steph
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>>> Subject:
>>>> Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council resolves not
>>>> to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
>>>> Date:
>>>> Thu, 22 Mar 2018 17:26:35 -0300
>>>> From:
>>>> Anthony Harris <harris at cabase.org.ar> <harris at cabase.org.ar>
>>>> To:
>>>> 'PAMELA LITTLE' <pam.little at alibaba-inc.com>
>>>> <pam.little at alibaba-inc.com>, 'Heather Forrest'
>>>> <haforrestesq at gmail.com> <haforrestesq at gmail.com>, 'GNSO Council List'
>>>> <council at gnso.icann.org> <council at gnso.icann.org>, 'Austin, Donna'
>>>> <Donna.Austin at team.neustar> <Donna.Austin at team.neustar>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I support Pam?s suggestion.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tony Harris
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [image: Logo]
>>>>
>>>> Antonio Harris
>>>> *Director Ejecutivo*
>>>>
>>>> C?mara Argentina de Internet
>>>> Suipacha 128 - 3 "F" - Tel: (5411) 5263-7456
>>>> harris at cabase.org.ar ? www.cabase.org.ar
>>>>
>>>>  [image: facebook] <http://www.facebook.com/CabaseAr/> [image: twitter]
>>>> <http://twitter.com/CabaseAr> [image: linkedIn]
>>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/company/562172?trk=tyah&trkInfo=clickedVertical%3Acompany%2CclickedEntityId%3A562172%2Cidx%3A2-1-2%2CtarId%3A1454513596509%2Ctas%3Acabase>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [image: eco] No me imprimas si no es necesario. Protejamos el medio
>>>> ambiente
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *De:* council [mailto:council-bounces at gnso.icann.org
>>>> <council-bounces at gnso.icann.org>] *En nombre de *PAMELA LITTLE
>>>> *Enviado el:* mi?rcoles, 21 de marzo de 2018 0:55
>>>> *Para:* Heather Forrest; GNSO Council List; Austin, Donna
>>>> *Asunto:* Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council
>>>> resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In addition to bandwidth issue and in light of the discussions around
>>>> ICANN budget and GDPR at ICANN61, perhaps the community should consider a
>>>> deferral/pause of this review.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also, see below excerpt of Goran's latest blog
>>>> https://www.icann.org/news/blog/budget-discussions-at-icann61:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "...and for the RDS Review, there is still significant work remaining
>>>> to address the impacts of the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) on
>>>> the WHOIS system. Delaying either of these reviews would save many hours of
>>>> volunteer time. Additionally, and more broadly, addressing the timing of
>>>> reviews, and approach, will contribute to discussing how to make future
>>>> reviews more efficient and more relevant. Deferring a review that will be
>>>> impacted by current Policy Development Processes or other outside factors,
>>>> could have significant savings on productivity and cost."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pam
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Sender:Austin, Donna via council <council at gnso.icann.org>
>>>>
>>>> Sent at:2018 Mar 21 (Wed) 07:34
>>>>
>>>> To:Heather Forrest <haforrestesq at gmail.com>; GNSO Council List <
>>>> council at gnso.icann.org>
>>>>
>>>> Subject:Re: [council] [EXTERNAL] Fwd: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council
>>>> resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Heather, Susan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Where does this leave the RDS Review Team in terms of adequate
>>>> membership? I know Susan has raised concerns previously that there isn?t
>>>> enough people to do the work.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Is it possible for the GNSO to recommend additional candidates to fill
>>>> the vacancies left by the ccNSO?s decision not to appoint volunteers?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Donna
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* council [mailto:council-bounces at gnso.icann.org
>>>> <council-bounces at gnso.icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *Heather Forrest
>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 13, 2018 10:51 AM
>>>> *To:* GNSO Council List <council at gnso.icann.org>
>>>> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] [council] Fwd: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council
>>>> resolves not to participate in RDS/WHOIS2
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear Council colleagues,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Please note the ccNSO's affirmed position on RDS/WHOIS2 RT.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Heather
>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>> From: *Katrina Sataki* <katrina at nic.lv>
>>>> Date: Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 1:37 PM
>>>> Subject: [soac-chairs] ccNSO Council resolves not to participate in
>>>> RDS/WHOIS2
>>>> To: Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>
>>>> Cc: Goran Marby <goran.marby at icann.org>, Chris Disspain <
>>>> chris.disspain at board.icann.org>, mike.silber at board.icann.org, SOAC
>>>> Chairs <soac-chairs at icann.org>
>>>>
>>>> 7 March 2018
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To: Alan Greenberg, RDS/WHOIS 2 Review Team, Chair
>>>>
>>>> CC: Chris Disspain, Mike Silber, G?ran Marby, Chairs of ALAC, ASO,
>>>> GAC, GNSO, SSAC, RSAC
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear Alan,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In May 2017, we informed the ICANN Board of Directors that the ccNSO
>>>> did not find itself in a position to nominate candidates for the RDS/
>>>> WHOIS2 Review Team, and deferred participation in this specific review.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 18 January 2018, the ccNSO Council again discussed its participation
>>>> in the review. Following this discussion, by 16 February 2018, the ccNSO
>>>> Council decided not to participate in the RDS/WHOIS2 specific review.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The ccNSO Council thanks the volunteers who sought endorsement of the
>>>> ccNSO.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Katrina Sataki,
>>>>
>>>> Chair of the ccNSO
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> soac-chairs mailing list
>>>> soac-chairs at icann.org
>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/soac-chairs
>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_listinfo_soac-2Dchairs&d=DwMFaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=CwipU91YB6EkpFXK9ynnT_QUef4yC5p7jpsDm8cU97g&m=z_9KlnGUQfzfjAPK60pwOGQ2z1_9dnUTx9nfWFZ0teA&s=bckZA-Th5eFVMWmo4Yk61megNGgOUiJTbBHZaB-WcDg&e=>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>
>>
>
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From icann at ferdeline.com  Sat Mar 24 23:10:16 2018
From: icann at ferdeline.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ayden_F=C3=A9rdeline?=)
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2018 17:10:16 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Review NCSG Comment on KSK Rollover Draft
In-Reply-To: <CAH5sThkPGgBpqegL5u-60--g2tzpUECJQvFmYVwrhaOxFX3ixQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH5sThkPGgBpqegL5u-60--g2tzpUECJQvFmYVwrhaOxFX3ixQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Dxchc09S7fYBFfaGNlsGM6MNKxrsK9edlHXaC3zeu-1l7K_iaqrLBxp4kSW_lFNXhr0t8EyMnFyDOW13whzm6tosH27yjwRZ3-UbdxsyLq0=@ferdeline.com>

Hi all,

Thanks to those who drafted this.

From what I understand, delaying the now overdue KSK rollover yet again would increase the risk of key compromise. Security best practices suggest that ICANN should rollover the key on a regular basis. Are there any dangers to us supporting another postponement?

I think our recommendation that the publication of a "monthly trust anchor report will give those Internet users who identify their local operators as ?not ready? an opportunity to reach out to them directly prior to the root KSK rollover date" is far-fetched. I doubt any end-users will read it and take action. I believe the onus should be on ICANN (and possibly the GAC) to reach out to local operators who are not ready...

Best wishes,

Ayden

??????? Original Message ???????
On 21 March 2018 6:28 PM, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> A draft we have to review for endorsment  asap,  the deadline for submission is the 2nd April.
>
> Best,
>
> Rafik
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: Louise Marie Hurel <louise.marie.hsd at gmail.com>
> Date: Thu, Mar 22, 2018, 3:23 AM
> Subject: [Public Comments] NCSG Comment on KSK Rollover Draft
> To: <NCSG-DISCUSS at listserv.syr.edu>
> Cc: Tomslin Samme-Nlar <mesumbeslin at gmail.com>, Dina Solveig Jalkanen <icann at thomascovenant.org>, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com>
>
> Hi all,
>
> Comments on the Plan to Restart the Root Key Signing Key (KSK) Rollover Process opened early February [this year](https://www.icann.org/public-comments/ksk-rollover-restart-2018-02-01-en). For those who have not been following the process that closely, KSK serves as a trust anchor for DNSSEC and was last (and for the first time) signed in 2010. ICANN had scheduled to implement a new key in October. However, they decided to postpone the signing of new cryptographic keys for the DNS after finding that the resolvers used by ISPs and network operators were still not ready and there's a need for more data in prepping for it.
>
> While the comment is narrow and highly technical in its scope, the overall idea of the process can be read as taking the next step in consolidating a way of periodically changing keys -- thus enhancing security and resilience in the DNS.
>
> Tomslin, Dina and I have worked on [this draft](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VNxn4UJlk8z196Kz56ucAdgyWp0ua9NmdHexRE1Wkhc/edit) and would be happy to get more comments edits, suggestions on this. Feel free to jump in.
>
> For more info, see [here](https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2017-09-27-en) and [here](https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/plan-continuing-root-ksk-rollover-01feb18-en.pdf).
>
> All the best,
>
> Louise Marie Hurel
>
> Cybersecurity Project Coordinator | Igarap? Institute
>
> London School of Economics (LSE) Media and Communications (Data and Society)
>
> Skype: louise.dias
> +44 (0) 7468 906327
> l.h.dias at lse.ac.uk
> louise.marie.hsd at gmail.com
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From rafik.dammak at gmail.com  Sun Mar 25 00:40:35 2018
From: rafik.dammak at gmail.com (Rafik Dammak)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2018 07:40:35 +0900
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Review of Draft Procedure public consultation on
 Community gTLD change
Message-ID: <CAH5sThkooTjE_NBoCaHWEobTRp5KY6v_+UZh_78-Q1FGCizQ0g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

we have the draft comment on draft procedure for community gTLD change that
was shared a while ago but seems left without review.  The deadline is the
2nd April.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wy5bMfvEvLA-FU2Ir4zd1Hhgo78XbDjROrCmmmfQgE0/edit?ts=5a8ac679

@Poncelet I don't think that was shared in main NCSG List?

we need to add more to the comments and reviewing carefully the proposal.
we had the presentation at council calls in summer by Craig Schwartz. for
sake of clarity, the outcome is coming from WG set by community registries
and in discussion with GDD staff. so the focus of the comment is regarding
if we consider that should be handled as a policy matter or it is an
implementation change

Best,

Rafik
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From rafik.dammak at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 03:03:50 2018
From: rafik.dammak at gmail.com (Rafik Dammak)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2018 09:03:50 +0900
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Review NCSG Comment on KSK Rollover Draft
In-Reply-To: <Dxchc09S7fYBFfaGNlsGM6MNKxrsK9edlHXaC3zeu-1l7K_iaqrLBxp4kSW_lFNXhr0t8EyMnFyDOW13whzm6tosH27yjwRZ3-UbdxsyLq0=@ferdeline.com>
References: <CAH5sThkPGgBpqegL5u-60--g2tzpUECJQvFmYVwrhaOxFX3ixQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <Dxchc09S7fYBFfaGNlsGM6MNKxrsK9edlHXaC3zeu-1l7K_iaqrLBxp4kSW_lFNXhr0t8EyMnFyDOW13whzm6tosH27yjwRZ3-UbdxsyLq0=@ferdeline.com>
Message-ID: <CAH5sThmRP9g8NZXiM=iOt0y4BDZUhMVs-gtJmdi57V6r+COBSg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ayden,

Thank for those questions and review, looking for other PC members to do so.
maybe something we can check with the draft team as they reviewed the
material?
I am not security expert but my understanding that risks depend on the
threat model for this case.
for outreach, ICANN did, in fact, contact government regulators and
relevant authorities to share info with their local operators for the first
iteration to inform them about KSK rollover. tbh I won't count on GAC to do
such thing. Of course, more can be done but it is always challenging.
I guess a monthly report may or not be used by users but at least can be a
good transparency tool, identifying operators and can be used by the
technical community itself not edn-users.

Best,

Rafik

2018-03-25 6:10 GMT+09:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>:

> Hi all,
>
> Thanks to those who drafted this.
>
> From what I understand, delaying the now overdue KSK rollover yet again
> would increase the risk of key compromise. Security best practices suggest
> that ICANN should rollover the key on a regular basis. Are there any
> dangers to us supporting another postponement?
>
> I think our recommendation that the publication of a "monthly trust anchor
> report will give those Internet users who identify their local operators as
> ?not ready? an opportunity to reach out to them directly prior to the root
> KSK rollover date" is far-fetched. I doubt any end-users will read it and
> take action. I believe the onus should be on ICANN (and possibly the GAC)
> to reach out to local operators who are not ready...
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Ayden
>
>
> ??????? Original Message ???????
> On 21 March 2018 6:28 PM, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> A draft we have to review for endorsment  asap,  the deadline for
> submission is the 2nd April.
>
> Best,
>
> Rafik
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: Louise Marie Hurel <louise.marie.hsd at gmail.com>
> Date: Thu, Mar 22, 2018, 3:23 AM
> Subject: [Public Comments] NCSG Comment on KSK Rollover Draft
> To: <NCSG-DISCUSS at listserv.syr.edu>
> Cc: Tomslin Samme-Nlar <mesumbeslin at gmail.com>, Dina Solveig Jalkanen <
> icann at thomascovenant.org>, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> Comments on the Plan to Restart the Root Key Signing Key (KSK) Rollover
> Process opened early February this year
> <https://www.icann.org/public-comments/ksk-rollover-restart-2018-02-01-en>.
> For those who have not been following the process that closely, KSK serves
> as a trust anchor for DNSSEC and was last (and for the first time) signed
> in 2010. ICANN had scheduled to implement a new key in October. However,
> they decided to postpone the signing of new cryptographic keys for the DNS
> after finding that the resolvers used by ISPs and network operators were
> still not ready and there's a need for more data in prepping for it.
>
> While the comment is narrow and highly technical in its scope, the overall
> idea of the process can be read as taking the next step in consolidating a
> way of periodically changing keys -- thus enhancing security and resilience
> in the DNS.
>
> Tomslin, Dina and I have worked on this draft
> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VNxn4UJlk8z196Kz56ucAdgyWp0ua9NmdHexRE1Wkhc/edit>
> and would be happy to get more comments edits, suggestions on this. Feel
> free to jump in.
>
> For more info, see here
> <https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2017-09-27-en> and here
> <https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/plan-continuing-root-ksk-rollover-01feb18-en.pdf>
> .
>
> All the best,
>
> Louise Marie Hurel
>
> Cybersecurity Project Coordinator | Igarap? Institute
>
> London School of Economics (LSE) Media and Communications (Data and
> Society)
> Skype: louise.dias
> +44 (0) 7468 906327 <+44%207468%20906327>
> *l.h.dias at lse.ac.uk <l.h.dias at lse.ac.uk> *
> louise.marie.hsd at gmail.com
>
>
>
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From raquino at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 17:46:06 2018
From: raquino at gmail.com (Renata Aquino Ribeiro)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2018 11:46:06 -0300
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Review NCSG Comment on KSK Rollover Draft
In-Reply-To: <CAH5sThmRP9g8NZXiM=iOt0y4BDZUhMVs-gtJmdi57V6r+COBSg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH5sThkPGgBpqegL5u-60--g2tzpUECJQvFmYVwrhaOxFX3ixQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <Dxchc09S7fYBFfaGNlsGM6MNKxrsK9edlHXaC3zeu-1l7K_iaqrLBxp4kSW_lFNXhr0t8EyMnFyDOW13whzm6tosH27yjwRZ3-UbdxsyLq0=@ferdeline.com>
 <CAH5sThmRP9g8NZXiM=iOt0y4BDZUhMVs-gtJmdi57V6r+COBSg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMokdMzRw8GCay3P3u6koX85gmuO8ScNGEh-iyEUwV6CKMqF=w@mail.gmail.com>

[observer]

Hi

I agree governmental actors should not really be the ones with this
discussion in mind.

This is a hot topic in RIRs
LACNIC tour to ICANN in Vice News being case in point
https://lists.ncuc.org/pipermail/ncuc-discuss/2018-March/043809.html

Outreach to endpoints of industry chain is the best way to deal with the
theme and is well covered by the comment.

Best,

Renata





On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 9:03 PM, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Ayden,
>
> Thank for those questions and review, looking for other PC members to do
> so.
> maybe something we can check with the draft team as they reviewed the
> material?
> I am not security expert but my understanding that risks depend on the
> threat model for this case.
> for outreach, ICANN did, in fact, contact government regulators and
> relevant authorities to share info with their local operators for the first
> iteration to inform them about KSK rollover. tbh I won't count on GAC to do
> such thing. Of course, more can be done but it is always challenging.
> I guess a monthly report may or not be used by users but at least can be a
> good transparency tool, identifying operators and can be used by the
> technical community itself not edn-users.
>
> Best,
>
> Rafik
>
> 2018-03-25 6:10 GMT+09:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Thanks to those who drafted this.
>>
>> From what I understand, delaying the now overdue KSK rollover yet again
>> would increase the risk of key compromise. Security best practices suggest
>> that ICANN should rollover the key on a regular basis. Are there any
>> dangers to us supporting another postponement?
>>
>> I think our recommendation that the publication of a "monthly trust
>> anchor report will give those Internet users who identify their local
>> operators as ?not ready? an opportunity to reach out to them directly prior
>> to the root KSK rollover date" is far-fetched. I doubt any end-users will
>> read it and take action. I believe the onus should be on ICANN (and
>> possibly the GAC) to reach out to local operators who are not ready...
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Ayden
>>
>>
>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>> On 21 March 2018 6:28 PM, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> A draft we have to review for endorsment  asap,  the deadline for
>> submission is the 2nd April.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Rafik
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>> From: Louise Marie Hurel <louise.marie.hsd at gmail.com>
>> Date: Thu, Mar 22, 2018, 3:23 AM
>> Subject: [Public Comments] NCSG Comment on KSK Rollover Draft
>> To: <NCSG-DISCUSS at listserv.syr.edu>
>> Cc: Tomslin Samme-Nlar <mesumbeslin at gmail.com>, Dina Solveig Jalkanen <
>> icann at thomascovenant.org>, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com>
>>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Comments on the Plan to Restart the Root Key Signing Key (KSK) Rollover
>> Process opened early February this year
>> <https://www.icann.org/public-comments/ksk-rollover-restart-2018-02-01-en>.
>> For those who have not been following the process that closely, KSK serves
>> as a trust anchor for DNSSEC and was last (and for the first time) signed
>> in 2010. ICANN had scheduled to implement a new key in October. However,
>> they decided to postpone the signing of new cryptographic keys for the DNS
>> after finding that the resolvers used by ISPs and network operators were
>> still not ready and there's a need for more data in prepping for it.
>>
>> While the comment is narrow and highly technical in its scope, the
>> overall idea of the process can be read as taking the next step in
>> consolidating a way of periodically changing keys -- thus enhancing
>> security and resilience in the DNS.
>>
>> Tomslin, Dina and I have worked on this draft
>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VNxn4UJlk8z196Kz56ucAdgyWp0ua9NmdHexRE1Wkhc/edit>
>> and would be happy to get more comments edits, suggestions on this. Feel
>> free to jump in.
>>
>> For more info, see here
>> <https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2017-09-27-en> and here
>> <https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/plan-continuing-root-ksk-rollover-01feb18-en.pdf>
>> .
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Louise Marie Hurel
>>
>> Cybersecurity Project Coordinator | Igarap? Institute
>>
>> London School of Economics (LSE) Media and Communications (Data and
>> Society)
>> Skype: louise.dias
>> +44 (0) 7468 906327 <+44%207468%20906327>
>> *l.h.dias at lse.ac.uk <l.h.dias at lse.ac.uk> *
>> louise.marie.hsd at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
>
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From icann at ferdeline.com  Mon Mar 26 17:49:29 2018
From: icann at ferdeline.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ayden_F=C3=A9rdeline?=)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2018 10:49:29 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Review NCSG Comment on KSK Rollover Draft
In-Reply-To: <CAMokdMzRw8GCay3P3u6koX85gmuO8ScNGEh-iyEUwV6CKMqF=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH5sThkPGgBpqegL5u-60--g2tzpUECJQvFmYVwrhaOxFX3ixQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <Dxchc09S7fYBFfaGNlsGM6MNKxrsK9edlHXaC3zeu-1l7K_iaqrLBxp4kSW_lFNXhr0t8EyMnFyDOW13whzm6tosH27yjwRZ3-UbdxsyLq0=@ferdeline.com>
 <CAH5sThmRP9g8NZXiM=iOt0y4BDZUhMVs-gtJmdi57V6r+COBSg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMokdMzRw8GCay3P3u6koX85gmuO8ScNGEh-iyEUwV6CKMqF=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <kK1L_H3r4Q_LyeGATBqbs-Qs0ObZC4aeP3dhMlYMqh92g9RQApZaeKjCx7qMY2bgHIfBPo4ZUTWm0rF-rFmWGIA3okoslIZtWl1D-nqKEAY=@ferdeline.com>

Another thought:

The proposed roll over date is a Thursday in the evening (US), which is Friday in many parts of the world. If something went wrong, Friday may be an inopportune time for this to happen. Might it be better for the rollover, whenever it does occur, to happen on a Monday?

Ayden

??????? Original Message ???????
On 26 March 2018 2:46 PM, Renata Aquino Ribeiro <raquino at gmail.com> wrote:

> [observer]
>
> Hi
>
> I agree governmental actors should not really be the ones with this discussion in mind.
>
> This is a hot topic in RIRs
> LACNIC tour to ICANN in Vice News being case in point
> https://lists.ncuc.org/pipermail/ncuc-discuss/2018-March/043809.html
>
> Outreach to endpoints of industry chain is the best way to deal with the theme and is well covered by the comment.
>
> Best,
>
> Renata
>
> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 9:03 PM, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Ayden,
>>
>> Thank for those questions and review, looking for other PC members to do so.
>> maybe something we can check with the draft team as they reviewed the material?
>> I am not security expert but my understanding that risks depend on the threat model for this case.
>> for outreach, ICANN did, in fact, contact government regulators and relevant authorities to share info with their local operators for the first iteration to inform them about KSK rollover. tbh I won't count on GAC to do such thing. Of course, more can be done but it is always challenging.
>> I guess a monthly report may or not be used by users but at least can be a good transparency tool, identifying operators and can be used by the technical community itself not edn-users.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Rafik
>>
>> 2018-03-25 6:10 GMT+09:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Thanks to those who drafted this.
>>>
>>> From what I understand, delaying the now overdue KSK rollover yet again would increase the risk of key compromise. Security best practices suggest that ICANN should rollover the key on a regular basis. Are there any dangers to us supporting another postponement?
>>>
>>> I think our recommendation that the publication of a "monthly trust anchor report will give those Internet users who identify their local operators as ?not ready? an opportunity to reach out to them directly prior to the root KSK rollover date" is far-fetched. I doubt any end-users will read it and take action. I believe the onus should be on ICANN (and possibly the GAC) to reach out to local operators who are not ready...
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> Ayden
>>>
>>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>>> On 21 March 2018 6:28 PM, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> A draft we have to review for endorsment  asap,  the deadline for submission is the 2nd April.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Rafik
>>>>
>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>>> From: Louise Marie Hurel <louise.marie.hsd at gmail.com>
>>>> Date: Thu, Mar 22, 2018, 3:23 AM
>>>> Subject: [Public Comments] NCSG Comment on KSK Rollover Draft
>>>> To: <NCSG-DISCUSS at listserv.syr.edu>
>>>> Cc: Tomslin Samme-Nlar <mesumbeslin at gmail.com>, Dina Solveig Jalkanen <icann at thomascovenant.org>, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Comments on the Plan to Restart the Root Key Signing Key (KSK) Rollover Process opened early February [this year](https://www.icann.org/public-comments/ksk-rollover-restart-2018-02-01-en). For those who have not been following the process that closely, KSK serves as a trust anchor for DNSSEC and was last (and for the first time) signed in 2010. ICANN had scheduled to implement a new key in October. However, they decided to postpone the signing of new cryptographic keys for the DNS after finding that the resolvers used by ISPs and network operators were still not ready and there's a need for more data in prepping for it.
>>>> While the comment is narrow and highly technical in its scope, the overall idea of the process can be read as taking the next step in consolidating a way of periodically changing keys -- thus enhancing security and resilience in the DNS.
>>>>
>>>> Tomslin, Dina and I have worked on [this draft](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VNxn4UJlk8z196Kz56ucAdgyWp0ua9NmdHexRE1Wkhc/edit) and would be happy to get more comments edits, suggestions on this. Feel free to jump in.
>>>>
>>>> For more info, see [here](https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2017-09-27-en) and [here](https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/plan-continuing-root-ksk-rollover-01feb18-en.pdf).
>>>> All the best,
>>>>
>>>> Louise Marie Hurel
>>>>
>>>> Cybersecurity Project Coordinator | Igarap? Institute
>>>>
>>>> London School of Economics (LSE) Media and Communications (Data and Society)
>>>>
>>>> Skype: louise.dias
>>>> [+44 (0) 7468 906327](tel:+44%207468%20906327)
>>>> l.h.dias at lse.ac.uk
>>>> louise.marie.hsd at gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
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From jumaropi at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 26 20:11:05 2018
From: jumaropi at yahoo.com (Juan Manuel Rojas)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2018 17:11:05 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Review NCSG Comment on KSK Rollover Draft
In-Reply-To: <kK1L_H3r4Q_LyeGATBqbs-Qs0ObZC4aeP3dhMlYMqh92g9RQApZaeKjCx7qMY2bgHIfBPo4ZUTWm0rF-rFmWGIA3okoslIZtWl1D-nqKEAY=@ferdeline.com>
References: <CAH5sThkPGgBpqegL5u-60--g2tzpUECJQvFmYVwrhaOxFX3ixQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <Dxchc09S7fYBFfaGNlsGM6MNKxrsK9edlHXaC3zeu-1l7K_iaqrLBxp4kSW_lFNXhr0t8EyMnFyDOW13whzm6tosH27yjwRZ3-UbdxsyLq0=@ferdeline.com>
 <CAH5sThmRP9g8NZXiM=iOt0y4BDZUhMVs-gtJmdi57V6r+COBSg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMokdMzRw8GCay3P3u6koX85gmuO8ScNGEh-iyEUwV6CKMqF=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <kK1L_H3r4Q_LyeGATBqbs-Qs0ObZC4aeP3dhMlYMqh92g9RQApZaeKjCx7qMY2bgHIfBPo4ZUTWm0rF-rFmWGIA3okoslIZtWl1D-nqKEAY=@ferdeline.com>
Message-ID: <151178927.1113605.1522084265062@mail.yahoo.com>

Hi everyone!?I think it is a good point what Ayden says. This Friday is holiday in many of our countries so I also think that could be happenning on Monday. I am not a Security expert, but I liked that subject a little bit.??
First, I am wondering Do we know how many people or non commercial organizations will be affected with this Rollover? I think there's no clarity because the use of this itself.? However I think we should add some about the test on the systems because I think that no many people understand that they need to do this before to confirme what action is needed.? ICANN have provided a free testbed to help any people determine if their systems can handle automated updates properly. What is also mentioned on RFC 5011 Automated Updates of DNS Security (DNSSEC) Trust Anchors. Did you know about this test? Any of you have tested? (I am testing it). I am waiting testing mail, this works as a emailing list to ckeck your own Keys.
Those are some of my thoughts,?
Kind Regards,
JUAN MANUEL ROJAS P.
Presidente?-?AGEIA DENSI?ColombiaCommunications Committee Chair.?Non-for-Profit Operational Concerns Constituency (NPOC) - ICANNCluster Orinoco TIC memberMaster IT candidate, Universidad de los Andes
Cel. +57 3017435600
Twitter:?@JmanuRojas





? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 

    El lunes, 26 de marzo de 2018 9:49:59 a. m. GMT-5, Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com> escribi?:  
 
 Another thought:

The proposed roll over date is a Thursday in the evening (US), which is Friday in many parts of the world. If something went wrong, Friday may be an inopportune time for this to happen. Might it be better for the rollover, whenever it does occur, to happen on a Monday?
Ayden??


??????? Original Message ???????
 On 26 March 2018 2:46 PM, Renata Aquino Ribeiro <raquino at gmail.com> wrote:
 

[observer]

Hi?

I agree governmental actors should not really be the ones with this discussion in mind.?

This is a hot topic in RIRs
LACNIC tour to ICANN in Vice News being case in point
https://lists.ncuc.org/pipermail/ncuc-discuss/2018-March/043809.html

Outreach to endpoints of industry chain is the best way to deal with the theme and is well covered by the comment.?

Best,

Renata





On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 9:03 PM, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Ayden,

Thank for those questions and review, looking for other PC members to do so.
maybe something we can check with the draft team as they reviewed the material?
I am not security expert but my understanding?that risks depend on the threat model for this case.?
for outreach, ICANN did, in fact, contact government regulators and relevant authorities to share info with their local operators for the first iteration to inform them about KSK rollover. tbh I won't count on GAC to do such thing. Of course, more can be done but it is always challenging.
I guess a monthly report may or not be used by users but at least can be a good transparency tool, identifying operators and can be used by the technical community itself not edn-users.

Best,

Rafik
 
2018-03-25 6:10 GMT+09:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>:

Hi all,

Thanks to those who drafted this.

>From what I understand,?delaying the now overdue KSK rollover yet again would increase the risk of key compromise. Security best practices suggest that ICANN should rollover the key on a regular basis. Are there any dangers to us supporting another postponement??

I think our recommendation that the publication of a "monthly trust anchor report will give those Internet users who identify their local operators as ?not ready? an opportunity to reach out to them directly prior to the root KSK rollover date" is far-fetched. I doubt any end-users will read it and take action. I believe the onus should be on ICANN (and possibly the GAC) to reach out to local operators who are not ready...

Best wishes,

Ayden??


??????? Original Message ???????
On 21 March 2018 6:28 PM, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com> wrote:


Hi all,

A draft we have to review for endorsment? asap,? the deadline for submission is the 2nd April.

Best,

Rafik?

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Louise Marie Hurel <louise.marie.hsd at gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Mar 22, 2018, 3:23 AM
Subject: [Public Comments] NCSG Comment on KSK Rollover Draft
To: <NCSG-DISCUSS at listserv.syr.edu >
Cc: Tomslin Samme-Nlar <mesumbeslin at gmail.com>, Dina Solveig Jalkanen <icann at thomascovenant.org>, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com>


Hi all,

Comments on the Plan to Restart the Root Key Signing Key (KSK) Rollover Process opened early February this year. For those who have not been following the process that closely, KSK serves as a trust anchor for DNSSEC and was last (and for the first time) signed in 2010. ICANN had scheduled to implement a new key in October. However, they?decided to postpone the signing of new cryptographic keys for the DNS after finding that the resolvers used by ISPs and network operators were still not ready and there's a need for more data in prepping for it.?

While the comment is narrow and highly technical in its scope, the overall idea of the process can be read as taking the next step in consolidating a way of periodically changing keys -- thus enhancing security and resilience in the DNS.?

Tomslin, Dina and I have worked on this draft and would be happy to get more comments edits, suggestions on this. Feel free to jump in.

For more info, see here?and here.

All the best,

Louise Marie Hurel

Cybersecurity Project Coordinator | Igarap? Institute


London School of Economics (LSE) Media and Communications (Data and Society)

Skype: louise.dias
+44 (0) 7468 906327
l.h.dias at lse.ac.uk?
louise.marie.hsd at gmail.com?






______________________________ _________________
 NCSG-PC mailing list
 NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
 https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/ listinfo/ncsg-pc
 



_______________________________________________
NCSG-PC mailing list
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From pileleji at ymca.gm  Mon Mar 26 20:14:15 2018
From: pileleji at ymca.gm (Poncelet Ileleji)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2018 17:14:15 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Review NCSG Comment on KSK Rollover Draft
In-Reply-To: <151178927.1113605.1522084265062@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CAH5sThkPGgBpqegL5u-60--g2tzpUECJQvFmYVwrhaOxFX3ixQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <Dxchc09S7fYBFfaGNlsGM6MNKxrsK9edlHXaC3zeu-1l7K_iaqrLBxp4kSW_lFNXhr0t8EyMnFyDOW13whzm6tosH27yjwRZ3-UbdxsyLq0=@ferdeline.com>
 <CAH5sThmRP9g8NZXiM=iOt0y4BDZUhMVs-gtJmdi57V6r+COBSg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMokdMzRw8GCay3P3u6koX85gmuO8ScNGEh-iyEUwV6CKMqF=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <kK1L_H3r4Q_LyeGATBqbs-Qs0ObZC4aeP3dhMlYMqh92g9RQApZaeKjCx7qMY2bgHIfBPo4ZUTWm0rF-rFmWGIA3okoslIZtWl1D-nqKEAY=@ferdeline.com>
 <151178927.1113605.1522084265062@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAEux40uchbEp38A1m90-McxdDctEhkF1mpjkTRw+cm8sJggijQ@mail.gmail.com>

Juan,

Its public holiday in my zone even on FRiday to  Monday we celebrate Easter
Monday too, so I will suggest  Tuesday please.

Thanks

On 26 March 2018 at 17:11, Juan Manuel Rojas via NCSG-PC <
ncsg-pc at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:

> Hi everyone!
> I think it is a good point what Ayden says. This Friday is holiday in many
> of our countries so I also think that could be happenning on Monday. I am
> not a Security expert, but I liked that subject a little bit.
>
> First, I am wondering Do we know how many people or non commercial
> organizations will be affected with this Rollover? I think there's no
> clarity because the use of this itself.  However I think we should add some
> about the test on the systems because I think that no many people
> understand that they need to do this before to confirme what action is
> needed.  ICANN have provided a free testbed to help any people determine if
> their systems can handle automated updates properly. What is also mentioned
> on RFC 5011 Automated Updates of DNS Security (DNSSEC) Trust Anchors. Did
> you know about this test? Any of you have tested? (I am testing it). I am
> waiting testing mail, this works as a emailing list to ckeck your own Keys.
>
> Those are some of my thoughts,
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> JUAN MANUEL ROJAS P.
> Presidente - AGEIA DENSI Colombia
> Communications Committee Chair. Non-for-Profit Operational Concerns
> Constituency (NPOC) - ICANN
> Cluster Orinoco TIC member
> Master IT candidate, Universidad de los Andes
>
> Cel. +57 3017435600 <+57%20301%207435600>
> Twitter: @JmanuRojas <http://www.twitter.com/jmanurojas>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> El lunes, 26 de marzo de 2018 9:49:59 a. m. GMT-5, Ayden F?rdeline <
> icann at ferdeline.com> escribi?:
>
>
> Another thought:
>
> The proposed roll over date is a Thursday in the evening (US), which is
> Friday in many parts of the world. If something went wrong, Friday may be
> an inopportune time for this to happen. Might it be better for the
> rollover, whenever it does occur, to happen on a Monday?
>
> Ayden
>
>
> ??????? Original Message ???????
> On 26 March 2018 2:46 PM, Renata Aquino Ribeiro <raquino at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> [observer]
>
> Hi
>
> I agree governmental actors should not really be the ones with this
> discussion in mind.
>
> This is a hot topic in RIRs
> LACNIC tour to ICANN in Vice News being case in point
> https://lists.ncuc.org/pipermail/ncuc-discuss/2018-March/043809.html
>
> Outreach to endpoints of industry chain is the best way to deal with the
> theme and is well covered by the comment.
>
> Best,
>
> Renata
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 9:03 PM, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Ayden,
>
> Thank for those questions and review, looking for other PC members to do
> so.
> maybe something we can check with the draft team as they reviewed the
> material?
> I am not security expert but my understanding that risks depend on the
> threat model for this case.
> for outreach, ICANN did, in fact, contact government regulators and
> relevant authorities to share info with their local operators for the first
> iteration to inform them about KSK rollover. tbh I won't count on GAC to do
> such thing. Of course, more can be done but it is always challenging.
> I guess a monthly report may or not be used by users but at least can be a
> good transparency tool, identifying operators and can be used by the
> technical community itself not edn-users.
>
> Best,
>
> Rafik
>
> 2018-03-25 6:10 GMT+09:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Thanks to those who drafted this.
>
> From what I understand, delaying the now overdue KSK rollover yet again
> would increase the risk of key compromise. Security best practices suggest
> that ICANN should rollover the key on a regular basis. Are there any
> dangers to us supporting another postponement?
>
> I think our recommendation that the publication of a "monthly trust anchor
> report will give those Internet users who identify their local operators as
> ?not ready? an opportunity to reach out to them directly prior to the root
> KSK rollover date" is far-fetched. I doubt any end-users will read it and
> take action. I believe the onus should be on ICANN (and possibly the GAC)
> to reach out to local operators who are not ready...
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Ayden
>
>
> ??????? Original Message ???????
> On 21 March 2018 6:28 PM, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> A draft we have to review for endorsment  asap,  the deadline for
> submission is the 2nd April.
>
> Best,
>
> Rafik
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: Louise Marie Hurel <louise.marie.hsd at gmail.com>
> Date: Thu, Mar 22, 2018, 3:23 AM
> Subject: [Public Comments] NCSG Comment on KSK Rollover Draft
> To: <NCSG-DISCUSS at listserv.syr.edu >
> Cc: Tomslin Samme-Nlar <mesumbeslin at gmail.com>, Dina Solveig Jalkanen <
> icann at thomascovenant.org>, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> Comments on the Plan to Restart the Root Key Signing Key (KSK) Rollover
> Process opened early February this year
> <https://www.icann.org/public-comments/ksk-rollover-restart-2018-02-01-en>.
> For those who have not been following the process that closely, KSK serves
> as a trust anchor for DNSSEC and was last (and for the first time) signed
> in 2010. ICANN had scheduled to implement a new key in October. However,
> they decided to postpone the signing of new cryptographic keys for the DNS
> after finding that the resolvers used by ISPs and network operators were
> still not ready and there's a need for more data in prepping for it.
>
> While the comment is narrow and highly technical in its scope, the overall
> idea of the process can be read as taking the next step in consolidating a
> way of periodically changing keys -- thus enhancing security and resilience
> in the DNS.
>
> Tomslin, Dina and I have worked on this draft
> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VNxn4UJlk8z196Kz56ucAdgyWp0ua9NmdHexRE1Wkhc/edit>
> and would be happy to get more comments edits, suggestions on this. Feel
> free to jump in.
>
> For more info, see here
> <https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2017-09-27-en> and here
> <https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/plan-continuing-root-ksk-rollover-01feb18-en.pdf>
> .
>
> All the best,
>
> Louise Marie Hurel
>
> Cybersecurity Project Coordinator | Igarap? Institute
>
> London School of Economics (LSE) Media and Communications (Data and
> Society)
> Skype: louise.dias
> +44 (0) 7468 906327
> *l.h.dias at lse.ac.uk <l.h.dias at lse.ac.uk> *
> louise.marie.hsd at gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________ _________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/ listinfo/ncsg-pc
> <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
>


-- 
Poncelet O. Ileleji MBCS
Coordinator
The Gambia YMCAs Computer Training Centre & Digital Studio
MDI Road Kanifing South
P. O. Box 421 Banjul
The Gambia, West Africa
Tel: (220) 4370240
Fax:(220) 4390793
Cell:(220) 9912508
Skype: pons_utd







*www.ymca.gm <http://www.ymca.gm>http://signaraglobalsolutions.com/
<http://signaraglobalsolutions.com/>http://jokkolabs.net/en/
<http://jokkolabs.net/en/>www.waigf.org
<http://www.waigf.org>www,insistglobal.com <http://www.itag.gm>www.npoc.org
<http://www.npoc.org>http://www.wsa-mobile.org/node/753
<http://www.wsa-mobile.org/node/753>*www.diplointernetgovernance.org
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From farzaneh.badii at gmail.com  Tue Mar 27 05:31:29 2018
From: farzaneh.badii at gmail.com (farzaneh badii)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2018 22:31:29 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Board Seat 14/ appointment process
Message-ID: <CAN1qJvD7W296L1_qAdGTY=cUa230hqX3pnxypyRKci5k+F7cug@mail.gmail.com>

all

here is the second draft of board appointment procedure. CSG accepted NCA
to be involved with the process but have an advisory role. It also accepted
to have elections but vote as a block (NCSG and CSG)


Let me know what you think.

Farzaneh
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From farell at benin2point0.org  Tue Mar 27 09:59:17 2018
From: farell at benin2point0.org (Farell FOLLY)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2018 08:59:17 +0200
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Review of Draft Procedure public consultation on
 Community gTLD change
In-Reply-To: <CAH5sThkooTjE_NBoCaHWEobTRp5KY6v_+UZh_78-Q1FGCizQ0g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH5sThkooTjE_NBoCaHWEobTRp5KY6v_+UZh_78-Q1FGCizQ0g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C1CFA0FC-F50B-4258-AB77-CB52FE37CA79@benin2point0.org>

I will take a look and get back by the end of the day.


@__f_f__

Best Regards
____________________________________

Ekue (Farell) FOLLY
Technology Champion & Chapter Head
Africa 2.0 Foundation.
farell at benin2point0.org 
www.africa2point0.org
linkedin.com/in/farellf
twitter.com/@__f_f__






> On 24 Mar 2018, at 23:40, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> we have the draft comment on draft procedure for community gTLD change that was shared a while ago but seems left without review.  The deadline is the 2nd April.
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wy5bMfvEvLA-FU2Ir4zd1Hhgo78XbDjROrCmmmfQgE0/edit?ts=5a8ac679 <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wy5bMfvEvLA-FU2Ir4zd1Hhgo78XbDjROrCmmmfQgE0/edit?ts=5a8ac679>
> 
> @Poncelet I don't think that was shared in main NCSG List?
> 
> we need to add more to the comments and reviewing carefully the proposal. we had the presentation at council calls in summer by Craig Schwartz. for sake of clarity, the outcome is coming from WG set by community registries and in discussion with GDD staff. so the focus of the comment is regarding if we consider that should be handled as a policy matter or it is an implementation change
> 
> Best,
> 
> Rafik
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc

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From farell at benin2point0.org  Tue Mar 27 10:05:57 2018
From: farell at benin2point0.org (Farell FOLLY)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2018 09:05:57 +0200
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Review NCSG Comment on KSK Rollover Draft
In-Reply-To: <kK1L_H3r4Q_LyeGATBqbs-Qs0ObZC4aeP3dhMlYMqh92g9RQApZaeKjCx7qMY2bgHIfBPo4ZUTWm0rF-rFmWGIA3okoslIZtWl1D-nqKEAY=@ferdeline.com>
References: <CAH5sThkPGgBpqegL5u-60--g2tzpUECJQvFmYVwrhaOxFX3ixQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <Dxchc09S7fYBFfaGNlsGM6MNKxrsK9edlHXaC3zeu-1l7K_iaqrLBxp4kSW_lFNXhr0t8EyMnFyDOW13whzm6tosH27yjwRZ3-UbdxsyLq0=@ferdeline.com>
 <CAH5sThmRP9g8NZXiM=iOt0y4BDZUhMVs-gtJmdi57V6r+COBSg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMokdMzRw8GCay3P3u6koX85gmuO8ScNGEh-iyEUwV6CKMqF=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <kK1L_H3r4Q_LyeGATBqbs-Qs0ObZC4aeP3dhMlYMqh92g9RQApZaeKjCx7qMY2bgHIfBPo4ZUTWm0rF-rFmWGIA3okoslIZtWl1D-nqKEAY=@ferdeline.com>
Message-ID: <B4411286-03EC-4A9D-955D-3E7C770E2BB5@benin2point0.org>

Of course Ayden, You are right. Changing crypto keys, especially in case of the rollover (and it will impact iteratively all subsequents operators), should be given due attention and be processed at a properly chosen time. Otherwise, this can lead to a (at least) 2 days Internet blackout or huge disturbance and it will even be difficult to recover because resolvers would not then be able to communicate.


@__f_f__

Best Regards
____________________________________

Ekue (Farell) FOLLY
Technology Champion & Chapter Head
Africa 2.0 Foundation.
farell at benin2point0.org 
www.africa2point0.org
linkedin.com/in/farellf
twitter.com/@__f_f__






> On 26 Mar 2018, at 16:49, Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com> wrote:
> 
> Another thought:
> 
> The proposed roll over date is a Thursday in the evening (US), which is Friday in many parts of the world. If something went wrong, Friday may be an inopportune time for this to happen. Might it be better for the rollover, whenever it does occur, to happen on a Monday?
> 
> Ayden  
> 
> 
> ??????? Original Message ???????
> On 26 March 2018 2:46 PM, Renata Aquino Ribeiro <raquino at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> [observer]
>> 
>> Hi 
>> 
>> I agree governmental actors should not really be the ones with this discussion in mind. 
>> 
>> This is a hot topic in RIRs
>> LACNIC tour to ICANN in Vice News being case in point
>> https://lists.ncuc.org/pipermail/ncuc-discuss/2018-March/043809.html <https://lists.ncuc.org/pipermail/ncuc-discuss/2018-March/043809.html>
>> 
>> Outreach to endpoints of industry chain is the best way to deal with the theme and is well covered by the comment. 
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Renata
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 9:03 PM, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> Hi Ayden,
>> 
>> Thank for those questions and review, looking for other PC members to do so.
>> maybe something we can check with the draft team as they reviewed the material?
>> I am not security expert but my understanding that risks depend on the threat model for this case. 
>> for outreach, ICANN did, in fact, contact government regulators and relevant authorities to share info with their local operators for the first iteration to inform them about KSK rollover. tbh I won't count on GAC to do such thing. Of course, more can be done but it is always challenging.
>> I guess a monthly report may or not be used by users but at least can be a good transparency tool, identifying operators and can be used by the technical community itself not edn-users.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Rafik
>> 
>> 2018-03-25 6:10 GMT+09:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>>:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Thanks to those who drafted this.
>> 
>> From what I understand, delaying the now overdue KSK rollover yet again would increase the risk of key compromise. Security best practices suggest that ICANN should rollover the key on a regular basis. Are there any dangers to us supporting another postponement? 
>> 
>> I think our recommendation that the publication of a "monthly trust anchor report will give those Internet users who identify their local operators as ?not ready? an opportunity to reach out to them directly prior to the root KSK rollover date" is far-fetched. I doubt any end-users will read it and take action. I believe the onus should be on ICANN (and possibly the GAC) to reach out to local operators who are not ready...
>> 
>> Best wishes,
>> 
>> Ayden  
>> 
>> 
>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>> On 21 March 2018 6:28 PM, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> A draft we have to review for endorsment  asap,  the deadline for submission is the 2nd April.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Rafik 
>>> 
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>> From: Louise Marie Hurel <louise.marie.hsd at gmail.com <mailto:louise.marie.hsd at gmail.com>>
>>> Date: Thu, Mar 22, 2018, 3:23 AM
>>> Subject: [Public Comments] NCSG Comment on KSK Rollover Draft
>>> To: <NCSG-DISCUSS at listserv.syr.edu <mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS at listserv.syr.edu>>
>>> Cc: Tomslin Samme-Nlar <mesumbeslin at gmail.com <mailto:mesumbeslin at gmail.com>>, Dina Solveig Jalkanen <icann at thomascovenant.org <mailto:icann at thomascovenant.org>>, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> Comments on the Plan to Restart the Root Key Signing Key (KSK) Rollover Process opened early February this year <https://www.icann.org/public-comments/ksk-rollover-restart-2018-02-01-en>. For those who have not been following the process that closely, KSK serves as a trust anchor for DNSSEC and was last (and for the first time) signed in 2010. ICANN had scheduled to implement a new key in October. However, they decided to postpone the signing of new cryptographic keys for the DNS after finding that the resolvers used by ISPs and network operators were still not ready and there's a need for more data in prepping for it. 
>>> 
>>> While the comment is narrow and highly technical in its scope, the overall idea of the process can be read as taking the next step in consolidating a way of periodically changing keys -- thus enhancing security and resilience in the DNS. 
>>> 
>>> Tomslin, Dina and I have worked on this draft <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VNxn4UJlk8z196Kz56ucAdgyWp0ua9NmdHexRE1Wkhc/edit> and would be happy to get more comments edits, suggestions on this. Feel free to jump in.
>>> 
>>> For more info, see here <https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2017-09-27-en> and here <https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/plan-continuing-root-ksk-rollover-01feb18-en.pdf>.
>>> 
>>> All the best,
>>> 
>>> Louise Marie Hurel
>>> Cybersecurity Project Coordinator | Igarap? Institute
>>> London School of Economics (LSE) Media and Communications (Data and Society)
>>> Skype: louise.dias
>>> +44 (0) 7468 906327 <tel:+44%207468%20906327>
>>> l.h.dias at lse.ac.uk <mailto:l.h.dias at lse.ac.uk> 
>>> louise.marie.hsd at gmail.com <mailto:louise.marie.hsd at gmail.com> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc

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From rafik.dammak at gmail.com  Tue Mar 27 10:18:12 2018
From: rafik.dammak at gmail.com (Rafik Dammak)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2018 16:18:12 +0900
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Review NCSG Comment on KSK Rollover Draft
In-Reply-To: <B4411286-03EC-4A9D-955D-3E7C770E2BB5@benin2point0.org>
References: <CAH5sThkPGgBpqegL5u-60--g2tzpUECJQvFmYVwrhaOxFX3ixQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <Dxchc09S7fYBFfaGNlsGM6MNKxrsK9edlHXaC3zeu-1l7K_iaqrLBxp4kSW_lFNXhr0t8EyMnFyDOW13whzm6tosH27yjwRZ3-UbdxsyLq0=@ferdeline.com>
 <CAH5sThmRP9g8NZXiM=iOt0y4BDZUhMVs-gtJmdi57V6r+COBSg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMokdMzRw8GCay3P3u6koX85gmuO8ScNGEh-iyEUwV6CKMqF=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <kK1L_H3r4Q_LyeGATBqbs-Qs0ObZC4aeP3dhMlYMqh92g9RQApZaeKjCx7qMY2bgHIfBPo4ZUTWm0rF-rFmWGIA3okoslIZtWl1D-nqKEAY=@ferdeline.com>
 <B4411286-03EC-4A9D-955D-3E7C770E2BB5@benin2point0.org>
Message-ID: <CAH5sTh=y979E5-CFZdxBVryC7_=-0+hSrLBuqogfPH++=9DiuA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

we are talking here about operators managing resolvers which are basically
ISPs, telco operators, and other infrastructure providers. They usually
have operations team and network engineers monitoring traffic and network
24/7. With outreach, they should be aware of the date of rollover
beforehand and plan for it but of course, some network operators are not
good at implementing best practices or doing the correct setup.

as the internet is a service used all the time and with its scale, there is
no perfect day to do "maintenance" or deployment or a way to avoid impact
some users. I won't really worry about it is in Friday or Monday. What
matters is the response in case of an outage and how that can be escalated
properly.

Best,

Rafik

2018-03-27 16:05 GMT+09:00 Farell FOLLY <farell at benin2point0.org>:

> Of course Ayden, You are right. Changing crypto keys, especially in case
> of the rollover (and it will impact iteratively all subsequents operators),
> should be given due attention and be processed at a properly chosen time.
> Otherwise, this can lead to a (at least) 2 days Internet blackout or huge
> disturbance and it will even be difficult to recover because resolvers
> would not then be able to communicate.
>
>
> @__f_f__
>
> Best Regards
> ____________________________________
>
> Ekue (Farell) FOLLY
> Technology Champion & Chapter Head
> Africa 2.0 Foundation.
> farell at benin2point0.org
> www.africa2point0.org
> linkedin.com/in/farellf
> twitter.com/@__f_f__
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 26 Mar 2018, at 16:49, Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com> wrote:
>
> Another thought:
>
> The proposed roll over date is a Thursday in the evening (US), which is
> Friday in many parts of the world. If something went wrong, Friday may be
> an inopportune time for this to happen. Might it be better for the
> rollover, whenever it does occur, to happen on a Monday?
>
> Ayden
>
>
> ??????? Original Message ???????
> On 26 March 2018 2:46 PM, Renata Aquino Ribeiro <raquino at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> [observer]
>
> Hi
>
> I agree governmental actors should not really be the ones with this
> discussion in mind.
>
> This is a hot topic in RIRs
> LACNIC tour to ICANN in Vice News being case in point
> https://lists.ncuc.org/pipermail/ncuc-discuss/2018-March/043809.html
>
> Outreach to endpoints of industry chain is the best way to deal with the
> theme and is well covered by the comment.
>
> Best,
>
> Renata
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 9:03 PM, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Ayden,
>>
>> Thank for those questions and review, looking for other PC members to do
>> so.
>> maybe something we can check with the draft team as they reviewed the
>> material?
>> I am not security expert but my understanding that risks depend on the
>> threat model for this case.
>> for outreach, ICANN did, in fact, contact government regulators and
>> relevant authorities to share info with their local operators for the first
>> iteration to inform them about KSK rollover. tbh I won't count on GAC to do
>> such thing. Of course, more can be done but it is always challenging.
>> I guess a monthly report may or not be used by users but at least can be
>> a good transparency tool, identifying operators and can be used by the
>> technical community itself not edn-users.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Rafik
>>
>> 2018-03-25 6:10 GMT+09:00 Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Thanks to those who drafted this.
>>>
>>> From what I understand, delaying the now overdue KSK rollover yet again
>>> would increase the risk of key compromise. Security best practices suggest
>>> that ICANN should rollover the key on a regular basis. Are there any
>>> dangers to us supporting another postponement?
>>>
>>> I think our recommendation that the publication of a "monthly trust
>>> anchor report will give those Internet users who identify their local
>>> operators as ?not ready? an opportunity to reach out to them directly prior
>>> to the root KSK rollover date" is far-fetched. I doubt any end-users will
>>> read it and take action. I believe the onus should be on ICANN (and
>>> possibly the GAC) to reach out to local operators who are not ready...
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> Ayden
>>>
>>>
>>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>>> On 21 March 2018 6:28 PM, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> A draft we have to review for endorsment  asap,  the deadline for
>>> submission is the 2nd April.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Rafik
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>> From: Louise Marie Hurel <louise.marie.hsd at gmail.com>
>>> Date: Thu, Mar 22, 2018, 3:23 AM
>>> Subject: [Public Comments] NCSG Comment on KSK Rollover Draft
>>> To: <NCSG-DISCUSS at listserv.syr.edu>
>>> Cc: Tomslin Samme-Nlar <mesumbeslin at gmail.com>, Dina Solveig Jalkanen <
>>> icann at thomascovenant.org>, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Comments on the Plan to Restart the Root Key Signing Key (KSK) Rollover
>>> Process opened early February this year
>>> <https://www.icann.org/public-comments/ksk-rollover-restart-2018-02-01-en>.
>>> For those who have not been following the process that closely, KSK serves
>>> as a trust anchor for DNSSEC and was last (and for the first time) signed
>>> in 2010. ICANN had scheduled to implement a new key in October. However,
>>> they decided to postpone the signing of new cryptographic keys for the DNS
>>> after finding that the resolvers used by ISPs and network operators were
>>> still not ready and there's a need for more data in prepping for it.
>>>
>>> While the comment is narrow and highly technical in its scope, the
>>> overall idea of the process can be read as taking the next step in
>>> consolidating a way of periodically changing keys -- thus enhancing
>>> security and resilience in the DNS.
>>>
>>> Tomslin, Dina and I have worked on this draft
>>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VNxn4UJlk8z196Kz56ucAdgyWp0ua9NmdHexRE1Wkhc/edit>
>>> and would be happy to get more comments edits, suggestions on this. Feel
>>> free to jump in.
>>>
>>> For more info, see here
>>> <https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2017-09-27-en> and here
>>> <https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/plan-continuing-root-ksk-rollover-01feb18-en.pdf>
>>> .
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> Louise Marie Hurel
>>> Cybersecurity Project Coordinator | Igarap? Institute
>>> London School of Economics (LSE) Media and Communications (Data and
>>> Society)
>>> Skype: louise.dias
>>> +44 (0) 7468 906327 <+44%207468%20906327>
>>> *l.h.dias at lse.ac.uk <l.h.dias at lse.ac.uk> *
>>> louise.marie.hsd at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
>
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From icann at ferdeline.com  Tue Mar 27 11:57:06 2018
From: icann at ferdeline.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ayden_F=C3=A9rdeline?=)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2018 04:57:06 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Board Seat 14/ appointment process
In-Reply-To: <CAN1qJvD7W296L1_qAdGTY=cUa230hqX3pnxypyRKci5k+F7cug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN1qJvD7W296L1_qAdGTY=cUa230hqX3pnxypyRKci5k+F7cug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <jvDmbAQW7JoHPHxgv9yU7mTNFSKvL8Y2mnso_Cnt-xgzp4bBWF3GxgIDYoml8OVLs0HBAibUFt1cMyBwOzRdL9kQ2X_ijtA4cAOQaXnom6E=@ferdeline.com>

Thanks, Farzaneh. The process looks acceptable to me. My only suggestion would be to have a clearer timeline for when this process should be initiated. Although I guess section 2.4.2 of the GNSO Operating Procedures does cover this, i.e. T- 4 months, if we think that provides for enough time?

? Ayden

??????? Original Message ???????
On 27 March 2018 2:31 AM, farzaneh badii <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com> wrote:

> all
>
> here is the second draft of board appointment procedure. CSG accepted NCA to be involved with the process but have an advisory role. It also accepted to have elections but vote as a block (NCSG and CSG)
>
> Let me know what you think.
> Farzaneh
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From dave at davecake.net  Thu Mar 29 21:30:54 2018
From: dave at davecake.net (David Cake)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2018 02:30:54 +0800
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Board Seat 14/ appointment process
In-Reply-To: <CAN1qJvD7W296L1_qAdGTY=cUa230hqX3pnxypyRKci5k+F7cug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN1qJvD7W296L1_qAdGTY=cUa230hqX3pnxypyRKci5k+F7cug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5EC56FB2-AFB2-435F-88EA-E8478B1DDC28@davecake.net>

My apologies for taking a while to comment on this.

I admit to disliking this draft, it has significantly changed from the old procedure and none of the changes seem positive to me.

The NCA is effectively rendered irrelevant. Included as an adviser is meaningless, as far as I can tell. While the NCA offers no particular advantage to NCSG, I think it is a definite step back in terms of creating an open procedure. .

And it effectively removes the vote of individual councillors entirely. NCSG only reluctantly adopted binding councillors individual votes as a counter tactic to the CSG, and this procedure enshrines that permanently, effectively saying there is no hope that the CSG will have any internal democracy, so we shouldn?t bother with the potential for it. And it entirely lacks any procedure for coming to an outcome if full consensus can?t be found, other than rinse and repeat.

If it was to be adopted, we would at least need a new procedure to determine how leadership consensus will be determined, if there is a minority opinion.

David


> On 27 Mar 2018, at 10:31 am, farzaneh badii <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> all
> 
> here is the second draft of board appointment procedure. CSG accepted NCA to be involved with the process but have an advisory role. It also accepted to have elections but vote as a block (NCSG and CSG)
> 
> 
> Let me know what you think.
> 
> Farzaneh
> <Board-Seat14-NCSG-Proposal .docx>_______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc

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From icann at ferdeline.com  Fri Mar 30 18:31:37 2018
From: icann at ferdeline.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ayden_F=C3=A9rdeline?=)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2018 11:31:37 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Fwd: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN Blog re Session with
 European DPAs
In-Reply-To: <009601d3c83b$8620ab70$92620250$@cgomes.com>
References: <009601d3c83b$8620ab70$92620250$@cgomes.com>
Message-ID: <ZkR0ZkMRB3x7qlhRCwDq7HaJ0bNGgLa4JE5H3zk7MRKz4ZyX-4MZ9wCw4gs0g-E8sXGkN0fkBEwP8jxrelDFdb9Hl_9ELHjOlCrw6Guvtv4=@ferdeline.com>

We urgently need to react.

April 11 on the Art 29 WP agenda

Ayden

Sent from ProtonMail Mobile

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Chuck<consult at cgomes.com>
> Date: On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 17:26
> Subject: Fwd: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN Blog re Session with European DPAs
> To: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> Cc:
>
> For any of you who have not seen it, the ICANN Blog re the Session with European DPAs that occurred yesterday, here is the link:
>
> https://www.icann.org/news/blog/data-protection-privacy-issues-update-discussion-with-article-29-en
>
> Chuck
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From rafik.dammak at gmail.com  Sat Mar 31 02:51:12 2018
From: rafik.dammak at gmail.com (Rafik Dammak)
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2018 08:51:12 +0900
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Urgent review of Draft comments
Message-ID: <CAH5sThmv5HP+Bvoj=2VMeRD1F_GHK3tQrqkg8V4wER6MT2HbxQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

we have 2 public comments with next Monday as a deadline:

   - KSK Rollover Process : https://docs.google.com/document/d/
   1VNxn4UJlk8z196Kz56ucAdgyWp0ua9NmdHexRE1Wkhc/edit
   <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VNxn4UJlk8z196Kz56ucAdgyWp0ua9NmdHexRE1Wkhc/edit>
   - Draft Procedure for Community gTLD Change Requests:
   https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wy5bMfvEvLA-
   FU2Ir4zd1Hhgo78XbDjROrCmmmfQgE0/edit?ts=5a8ac679
   <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wy5bMfvEvLA-FU2Ir4zd1Hhgo78XbDjROrCmmmfQgE0/edit?ts=5a8ac679>

we need to review and endorse those comments soon. I asked for an extension
for the latter as it needs some work while the former is in a good shape.
Proofreading would be helpful.

please respond asap.

Best,

Rafik
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From rafik.dammak at gmail.com  Sat Mar 31 04:37:21 2018
From: rafik.dammak at gmail.com (Rafik Dammak)
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2018 10:37:21 +0900
Subject: [NCSG-PC] New model from IPC
Message-ID: <CAH5sTh=RraX_z6bXYk2AfQK+bxStyyiXLy+A7qKimZmhz-Jkbw@mail.gmail.com>

hi all,

things are still moving around GDPR discussion and models. IPC has a new
model, that may differ from previous proposals
http://www.ipconstituency.org/assets/docs/WHOIS%20Access%
20Accreditation%20Process%201.3%5B1%5D.pdf . We got so many moving pieces
in same time (e.g as mentioned by Ayden the meeting with Article29 WP
https://www.icann.org/news/blog/data-protection-privacy-issues-update-discussion-with-article-29-en)
and request fro guidance from DPAs
https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2018-03-28-en

we should review this model and respond.

Best,

Rafik
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From icann at ferdeline.com  Sat Mar 31 21:10:27 2018
From: icann at ferdeline.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ayden_F=C3=A9rdeline?=)
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2018 14:10:27 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-PC] Urgent review of Draft comments
In-Reply-To: <CAH5sThmv5HP+Bvoj=2VMeRD1F_GHK3tQrqkg8V4wER6MT2HbxQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH5sThmv5HP+Bvoj=2VMeRD1F_GHK3tQrqkg8V4wER6MT2HbxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <nAd9ZuRP3MT2uikZU_Nw2G5fVF9jrTOU0t5m_ywDd1Hw_iJkSH9ApuaXFWVZufBor3UrehOS0h8m47Si3AoduAMG2AyMxI3rYWsUtDapmDw=@ferdeline.com>

Hi Rafik,

Thanks for following up.

RE: the KSK rollover comment, I have no objections to it being submitted.

RE: community gTLD change requests, I don't think it is ready for submission just yet. Unfortunately I am not tracking this issue so am unable to beef up the text.

Best wishes,

Ayden

??????? Original Message ???????
On 30 March 2018 11:51 PM, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> we have 2 public comments with next Monday as a deadline:
>
> - KSK Rollover Process : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VNxn4UJlk8z196Kz56ucAdgyWp0ua9NmdHexRE1Wkhc/edit
>
> - Draft Procedure for Community gTLD Change Requests: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wy5bMfvEvLA-FU2Ir4zd1Hhgo78XbDjROrCmmmfQgE0/edit?ts=5a8ac679
>
> we need to review and endorse those comments soon. I asked for an extension for the latter as it needs some work while the former is in a good shape. Proofreading would be helpful.
>
> please respond asap.
>
> Best,
>
> Rafik
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