[NCSG-PC] Fwd: Re: ICANN58 Data Protection Session Planning

Stephanie Perrin stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
Thu Feb 23 05:23:00 EET 2017


I have asked Peter for an update Rafik but nothing back so far, will 
keep at it as he is the only one who can help with that.

Stephanie


On 2017-02-22 18:47, Rafik Dammak wrote:
> Hi,
>
> the data protection session is scheduled for Monday 
> https://schedule.icann.org/event/9nnl/cross-community-discussion-with-data-protection-commissioners
> the commissioners have other sessions, one with GAC 
> (https://schedule.icann.org/event/9np1/gac-meeting-council-of-europe-data-protection-commissioners) 
> and I think some private meetings not listed in the schedule.
> we had the suggestion to have meeting the commissioners in 
> Tuesday during NCSG session for CD but I don't think we have any 
> suggested time or heard from Peter about that. @Stephanie can you 
> please confirm the availability with him?
> we will also have to adjust our NCSG session agenda, @Tapani do you 
> have a draft agenda for it yet? the session is here 
> https://schedule.icann.org/event/9nqC/gnso-non-commercial-stakeholder-group-ncsg-meeting
>
> Best,
>
> Rafik
>
> 2017-02-23 4:30 GMT+09:00 Stephanie Perrin 
> <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca 
> <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>>:
>
>     at this point I don't really know Kathy, I think I need an update
>     from Peter.  Not sure what he is working on at the moment....
>
>     But I will share my schedule once I get it all filled in, that
>     could be useful to those who want to follow privacy issues.  Busy
>     busy schedule for Copenhagen...
>
>     cheers STephanie
>
>
>     On 2017-02-22 13:55, Kathy Kleiman wrote:
>>
>>     Stephanie, what are the slots on Monday (and perhaps Tuesday)
>>     that we should be attending to cheer loudly for the Data
>>     Protection Commissioners, you and Peter Kimpian of the Council of
>>     Europe? Can't wait to be at these events!
>>
>>     Best and tx, Kathy
>>
>>     On 2/22/2017 1:30 PM, Stephanie Perrin wrote:
>>>
>>>     I was just contacted by the Data Protection Officer for Europol
>>>     (who happens to be an old colleague, I saw her in Brussels). 
>>>     She is interested in attending the Copenhagen meeting, and I
>>>     took the liberty of inviting her to come and speak to us....she
>>>     gave me the manual for the data protection officers in Europol,
>>>     and it would be great to hear what law enforcement is /supposed/
>>>     to be doing to protect data.....
>>>
>>>     I dont think I have quite talked her into coming yet but there
>>>     is definitely interest...
>>>
>>>     cheers Steph
>>>
>>>
>>>     On 2017-02-18 01:07, Stephanie Perrin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     unfortunately, commissioners are not going to stay till
>>>>     Wednesday, it is all getting crammed into Monday.  best we
>>>>     could do would be something first thing Tuesday.....
>>>>
>>>>     I think Chuck has got some time in there somehow.....can
>>>>     remember when but will find it and send to the list
>>>>
>>>>     SP
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     On 2017-02-17 19:26, Ayden Férdeline wrote:
>>>>>     If I understand correctly, the Commissioners are visiting us
>>>>>     on the Wednesday? In that case, for maximum attendance, it
>>>>>     might be best if our session was from 1:45pm to 3:00pm. But I
>>>>>     do not know what the rest of their day looks like. Thanks
>>>>>     again for organising this.
>>>>>
>>>>>     Ayden
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>     -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>>     Subject: Re: [NCSG-PC] Fwd: Re: ICANN58 Data Protection
>>>>>>     Session Planning
>>>>>>     Local Time: 15 February 2017 9:38 PM
>>>>>>     UTC Time: 15 February 2017 21:38
>>>>>>     From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
>>>>>>     <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>
>>>>>>     To: ncsg-pc at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-pc at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     you are right, it is on Saturday
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     On 2017-02-15 12:33, Ayden Férdeline wrote:
>>>>>>>     Hi Stephanie,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     I don't see an RDS meeting scheduled for the Wednesday?
>>>>>>>     Perhaps it is on the schedule under a different name, or
>>>>>>>     perhaps I have just missed it? (Here is a link to the
>>>>>>>     tentative schedule
>>>>>>>     <http://lists.ncuc.org/pipermail/ncuc-discuss/attachments/20170214/01a86592/attachment.pdf>.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     Best wishes,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     Ayden
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>>>>     Subject: Re: [NCSG-PC] Fwd: Re: ICANN58 Data Protection
>>>>>>>>     Session Planning
>>>>>>>>     Local Time: 15 February 2017 11:55 AM
>>>>>>>>     UTC Time: 15 February 2017 11:55
>>>>>>>>     From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
>>>>>>>>     <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>
>>>>>>>>     To: Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>     <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>     ncsg-pc <ncsg-pc at lists.ncsg.is> <mailto:ncsg-pc at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     Ok so Maryam got back to me. THey forgot it.  (how
>>>>>>>>     Convenient). So do we have a preferred timeslot? I will ask
>>>>>>>>     Peter....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     Steph
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     On 2017-02-15 00:28, Rafik Dammak wrote:
>>>>>>>>>     Hi Stephanie,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>     I think what Farzaneh wanted to highlight is that NCSG
>>>>>>>>>     made a meeting request for NCSG-DPA session but you are
>>>>>>>>>     saying that DPA will go to RDS session instead?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>     Best,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>     Rafik
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>     2017-02-15 14:12 GMT+09:00 Stephanie Perrin
>>>>>>>>>     <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
>>>>>>>>>     <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>>:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>         Wednesday is still our day alone to use as we see fit.
>>>>>>>>>         Chuck is trying to get Mr Cannatucci to attend our RDS
>>>>>>>>>         meeting on Wednesday., I will forward that thread to
>>>>>>>>>         you as well.  All the other sessions are monday
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>         On 2017-02-14 23:59, farzaneh badii wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>         Hi Stephanie,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>         We both asked Maryam to follow up on NCSG session
>>>>>>>>>>         with the UN special rapp. I think would be helpful
>>>>>>>>>>         that Tapani also follows up since it's an NCSG
>>>>>>>>>>         request and we still don't see it on the schedule.
>>>>>>>>>>         Did I interpret it wrong that you said Chuck was
>>>>>>>>>>         planning to turn that into a GNSO meeting. Is the
>>>>>>>>>>         wednesday session only NCSG meeting wtih the UN rapp?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>         Farzaneh
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>         On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 11:23 PM, Stephanie Perrin
>>>>>>>>>>         <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
>>>>>>>>>>         <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             What happened is this:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>               * GAC was asked to sponsor, never got it done
>>>>>>>>>>               * GNSO was asked to sponsor, proposed instead
>>>>>>>>>>                 to replace a lapsed HIT with this panel
>>>>>>>>>>               * Invitations went out for the opening day of
>>>>>>>>>>                 the conference (they had to, these are busy
>>>>>>>>>>                 guys)
>>>>>>>>>>               * IPC weighed in demanding balanced HIT style
>>>>>>>>>>                 panels (Victoria sheckler their person on this)
>>>>>>>>>>               * Side meetings have apparently been arranged
>>>>>>>>>>               * only guy available for our meeting on
>>>>>>>>>>                 Wednesday is UN Special Rapporteur for
>>>>>>>>>>                 privacy (grateful for this, this is a big
>>>>>>>>>>                 deal and I am trying to get his latest book
>>>>>>>>>>                 read prior to the event
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             Last version I saw of the schedule we did not
>>>>>>>>>>             have a session.  You were checking on that. Chuck
>>>>>>>>>>             Gomes was asking for time for the PDP on RDS but
>>>>>>>>>>             Monday is only day, he is trying for 8 am
>>>>>>>>>>             breakfast meeting.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             cheers Steph
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             On 2017-02-14 23:09, farzaneh badii wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>             Hi Stephanie,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>             Can you clarify something for me? Is this the
>>>>>>>>>>>             Cross- Community Discussion with
>>>>>>>>>>>             Data Protection Commissioners?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>             If so, didn't we also submit a session request (
>>>>>>>>>>>             NCSG request)? Did that turn into the above
>>>>>>>>>>>             session? Where did this session come from and
>>>>>>>>>>>             where is NCSG session?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>             Farzaneh
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>             On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:43 PM, Stephanie
>>>>>>>>>>>             Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
>>>>>>>>>>>             <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 I am biting my tongue on this.  As some of
>>>>>>>>>>>                 you heard, I raised this with Goran.  I am
>>>>>>>>>>>                 tempted to just slide it along to him. With
>>>>>>>>>>>                 of course a mention of how the GAC and ICANN
>>>>>>>>>>>                 staff sat on this from Hyderabad until mid
>>>>>>>>>>>                 January.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Suggestions welcome. Pissed off, am I.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Steph
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Subject:
>>>>>>>>>>>                 	Re: ICANN58 Data Protection Session Planning
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Date:
>>>>>>>>>>>                 	Tue, 14 Feb 2017 21:52:54 -0500
>>>>>>>>>>>                 From:
>>>>>>>>>>>                 	Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 <mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 To:
>>>>>>>>>>>                 	KIMPIAN Peter <Peter.KIMPIAN at coe.int>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 <mailto:Peter.KIMPIAN at coe.int>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 CC:
>>>>>>>>>>>                 	Victoria Sheckler <vsheckler at riaa.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 <mailto:vsheckler at riaa.com>, James M. Bladel
>>>>>>>>>>>                 <jbladel at godaddy.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 <mailto:jbladel at godaddy.com>,
>>>>>>>>>>>                 kathy at kathykleiman.com
>>>>>>>>>>>                 <mailto:kathy at kathykleiman.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 <kathy at kathykleiman.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 <mailto:kathy at kathykleiman.com>,
>>>>>>>>>>>                 donna.austin at neustar.biz
>>>>>>>>>>>                 <mailto:donna.austin at neustar.biz>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 <donna.austin at neustar.biz>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 <mailto:donna.austin at neustar.biz>,
>>>>>>>>>>>                 heather.forrest at acu.edu.au
>>>>>>>>>>>                 <mailto:heather.forrest at acu.edu.au>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 <heather.forrest at acu.edu.au>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 <mailto:heather.forrest at acu.edu.au>,
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Stephanie Perrin
>>>>>>>>>>>                 <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>,
>>>>>>>>>>>                 KWASNY Sophie <Sophie.KWASNY at coe.int>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 <mailto:Sophie.KWASNY at coe.int>, Wilson,
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Christopher <cwilson at 21cf.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 <mailto:cwilson at 21cf.com>, Tony Holmes
>>>>>>>>>>>                 <tonyarholmes at btinternet.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 <mailto:tonyarholmes at btinternet.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 All,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 /First, apologies for the length of this
>>>>>>>>>>>                 message and a tone that is more strident
>>>>>>>>>>>                 than I intend it to be.  Another pass
>>>>>>>>>>>                 through this email could smooth the rough
>>>>>>>>>>>                 edges, but it is 2:45 am in Reykjavik and I
>>>>>>>>>>>                 have a 7:15 breakfast meeting, so my
>>>>>>>>>>>                 capacity is exhausted (and so am I). Please
>>>>>>>>>>>                 read this with a friendly, collegial tone in
>>>>>>>>>>>                 mind and indulge me  where I have failed to
>>>>>>>>>>>                 have the tone of the text match my desire to
>>>>>>>>>>>                 be a good working partner (and to "disagree
>>>>>>>>>>>                 without being disagreeable") even where our
>>>>>>>>>>>                 perspectives may differ.  (As partial
>>>>>>>>>>>                 explanation, my sport of choice in my youth
>>>>>>>>>>>                 was rugby ("a ruffian's game played by
>>>>>>>>>>>                 gentlemen"), while fencing probably would
>>>>>>>>>>>                 have been more apropos....)/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 I am quite concerned with where we are in
>>>>>>>>>>>                 this discussion. There are either some
>>>>>>>>>>>                 substantial misunderstandings about what
>>>>>>>>>>>                 this session, as a "High Interest Topic", is
>>>>>>>>>>>                 supposed to be -- or there is an apparent
>>>>>>>>>>>                 intent to exclude perspectives that will
>>>>>>>>>>>                 keep this from being a celebration of data
>>>>>>>>>>>                 protection principles.  I hope it's the
>>>>>>>>>>>                 former, but even that is unfortunate.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Perhaps the root of the problem is combining
>>>>>>>>>>>                 the original idea for a CoE-organized
>>>>>>>>>>>                 presentation with the High Interest Topic
>>>>>>>>>>>                 (HIT) concept -- or perhaps that just
>>>>>>>>>>>                 highlighted the inherent problem with the
>>>>>>>>>>>                 session. HIT doesn't just refer to a level
>>>>>>>>>>>                 of interest -- it's supposed to be a
>>>>>>>>>>>                 community-generated proposal that is then
>>>>>>>>>>>                 planned and presented with multistakeholder
>>>>>>>>>>>                 participation (and _not_ merely by the
>>>>>>>>>>>                 proposing organization).  One of the
>>>>>>>>>>>                 problems we had with the last round of HITs
>>>>>>>>>>>                 was a proposal for a HIT session to be
>>>>>>>>>>>                 planned and presented by a single part of
>>>>>>>>>>>                 the community, largely consisting of a
>>>>>>>>>>>                 presentation by one of its members and only
>>>>>>>>>>>                 minor roles for any sector not sympathetic
>>>>>>>>>>>                 to the views of this member and community
>>>>>>>>>>>                 group.  This was inconsistent with the idea
>>>>>>>>>>>                 that the proposing organization does not
>>>>>>>>>>>                 control the content of a HIT session.
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Fortunately, the original planners agreed to
>>>>>>>>>>>                 to expand to a more diverse planning team,
>>>>>>>>>>>                 with the result being a more diverse panel
>>>>>>>>>>>                 and a very lively and well-received
>>>>>>>>>>>                 session.  When community leaders got on the
>>>>>>>>>>>                 phone to consider this round of HITs, we
>>>>>>>>>>>                 wanted to avoid a replay of this situation
>>>>>>>>>>>                 (although it ended well enough).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 When this data protection session was
>>>>>>>>>>>                 brought to the community leaders group as a
>>>>>>>>>>>                 late suggestion for one of the HIT slots, I
>>>>>>>>>>>                 was concerned we might be heading for a
>>>>>>>>>>>                 replay, so the IPC specified that one of our
>>>>>>>>>>>                 members (Vicky) should be added to the
>>>>>>>>>>>                 planning group (knowing that at least one
>>>>>>>>>>>                 other constituency shared very similar
>>>>>>>>>>>                 concerns). Unlike the last time, where we
>>>>>>>>>>>                 were able to get a hand on the tiller and
>>>>>>>>>>>                 help turn the ship, I've found our attempts
>>>>>>>>>>>                 to be largely rebuffed. This has been
>>>>>>>>>>>                 increasingly frustrating.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 I'd like to respond to some of the specific
>>>>>>>>>>>                 statements on this thread since I last had
>>>>>>>>>>>                 an opportunity to respond:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Vicky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>                 I don’t see here (but I am also sleep
>>>>>>>>>>>                 deprived) which panelist will represent
>>>>>>>>>>>                 public safety / transparency / enforcement
>>>>>>>>>>>                 concerns.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Peter responded:
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Uuhhh, if you are in US it is quite early
>>>>>>>>>>>                 for you…in my sense usually the governments
>>>>>>>>>>>                 are responsible and accountable for the
>>>>>>>>>>>                 issues you mentioned, therefore it seemed to
>>>>>>>>>>>                 me logical that those issues will be taken
>>>>>>>>>>>                 care by a representative of the GAC. Besides
>>>>>>>>>>>                 that, the PSWG is a sub-group of the GAC
>>>>>>>>>>>                 which is deliberately discussing those
>>>>>>>>>>>                 issues you mentioned…
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Greg: This misses the point of Vicky's
>>>>>>>>>>>                 question and perhaps misses a fundamental
>>>>>>>>>>>                 point about ICANN -- that it is a
>>>>>>>>>>>                 multistakeholder organization and /not/ a
>>>>>>>>>>>                 multilateral organization. Governments are
>>>>>>>>>>>                 not the only ones concerned with
>>>>>>>>>>>                 investigation and enforcement -- there are
>>>>>>>>>>>                 also significant parts of the private sector
>>>>>>>>>>>                 deeply engaged in investigation and
>>>>>>>>>>>                 enforcement (and not to put too fine a point
>>>>>>>>>>>                 on it, but IPC (my group and Vicky's group)
>>>>>>>>>>>                 represents one of those parts of the private
>>>>>>>>>>>                 sector).  As such, at least one voice from
>>>>>>>>>>>                 these parts of the private sector should be
>>>>>>>>>>>                 present on the panel. Even within
>>>>>>>>>>>                 governments, there are parts that deal with
>>>>>>>>>>>                 public safety and enforcement. The idea that
>>>>>>>>>>>                 a representative of the GAC will provide
>>>>>>>>>>>                 this perspective seems mistaken.  As fine a
>>>>>>>>>>>                 chair as the GAC chair is, I don't believe
>>>>>>>>>>>                 this is his perspective, and the suggestion
>>>>>>>>>>>                 this would be within his brief seemed based
>>>>>>>>>>>                 more on protocol than practicality. As
>>>>>>>>>>>                 revealed in this thread, Ms. Bauer-Bulst is
>>>>>>>>>>>                 the co-chair of the PSWG, so would be more
>>>>>>>>>>>                 on point for this perspective (though
>>>>>>>>>>>                 apparently she is not sufficiently august to
>>>>>>>>>>>                 appear on the panel, even if she is a Deputy
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Head of Unit, and not merely a Team Leader
>>>>>>>>>>>                 as was stated earlier in this exchange).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Peter replied to James Bladel in red below:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                     Thanks, Peter.  Looks like I did miss
>>>>>>>>>>>                     this at some point, so please accept my
>>>>>>>>>>>                     apologies for the confusion.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                     Generally, I"m ok with this, but a few
>>>>>>>>>>>                     thoughts:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                     * I'm not sure what "sponsored" by the
>>>>>>>>>>>                     GNSO means in this context. Maybe we
>>>>>>>>>>>                     could say something like "convened" or
>>>>>>>>>>>                     "supported" jointly by the GNSO & GAC?à
>>>>>>>>>>>                     this expression was used by ICANN staff
>>>>>>>>>>>                     but I can only agree that those you
>>>>>>>>>>>                     suggested are much better.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Greg: From my point of view, this support is
>>>>>>>>>>>                 predicated on the panel representing
>>>>>>>>>>>                 multiple perspectives.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                     * I think we need to keep the number
>>>>>>>>>>>                     panelists to an absolute minimum.à I
>>>>>>>>>>>                     agree. 3+3 should be the maximum (!).
>>>>>>>>>>>                      If we strive to represent all seven
>>>>>>>>>>>                     GNSO SG/Cs, plus GAC, plus COE/DPAs,
>>>>>>>>>>>                     then this session runs the risk of
>>>>>>>>>>>                     becoming "Death by PowerPoint" and
>>>>>>>>>>>                     dosn't leave much time for Q&A.  To that
>>>>>>>>>>>                     end, I will let Graeme know that we are
>>>>>>>>>>>                     looking for a RrSG panelist, but would
>>>>>>>>>>>                     encourage them to reach out to Jim
>>>>>>>>>>>                     Galvin and see if he is comfortable
>>>>>>>>>>>                     representing industry generally. Or if
>>>>>>>>>>>                     we need another CPH person that can wear
>>>>>>>>>>>                     both "hats."à not necessarily as Jim
>>>>>>>>>>>                     could represent it quite well, I am
>>>>>>>>>>>                     sure. (Being said that we would have
>>>>>>>>>>>                     preferred more focus on the industry
>>>>>>>>>>>                     itself and to the different players as
>>>>>>>>>>>                     they are the first level data
>>>>>>>>>>>                     controllers. All NCPH and GAC related
>>>>>>>>>>>                     groups are secondary only) But if the
>>>>>>>>>>>                     internal dynamic of GNSO is as such, be
>>>>>>>>>>>                     it, but in this case we suggest Becky
>>>>>>>>>>>                     Burr to be on the panel (and not being
>>>>>>>>>>>                     moderator).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Greg: ICANN and the GNSO are not merely
>>>>>>>>>>>                 about "the industry." If you wanted an
>>>>>>>>>>>                 industry facing program or a dialogue only
>>>>>>>>>>>                 with "the industry", the appropriate place
>>>>>>>>>>>                 for that would be the GDD (Global Domains
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Division) Summit.  As the President of an
>>>>>>>>>>>                 "NCPH related group" I can assure you that
>>>>>>>>>>>                 our concerns about data protection and
>>>>>>>>>>>                 privacy are not "secondary" -- at least not
>>>>>>>>>>>                 to us and our stakeholder community. This
>>>>>>>>>>>                 further shows the problem of "perspectives"
>>>>>>>>>>>                 as this panel is being planned.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                     * Similarly, I think the NCPH should
>>>>>>>>>>>                     strive for ~2 panelists. Again, I
>>>>>>>>>>>                     apologize if the discussions were
>>>>>>>>>>>                     already headed in this direction, as I
>>>>>>>>>>>                     have lost track of the names proposed in
>>>>>>>>>>>                     this thread.à I really think that if CPH
>>>>>>>>>>>                     has one panellist NCPH should also has
>>>>>>>>>>>                     to have 1 only because of the arguments
>>>>>>>>>>>                     expressed above.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Greg: Peter, you may not know it (or perhaps
>>>>>>>>>>>                 you may) but the NCPH is an umbrella over
>>>>>>>>>>>                 two parts of the GNSO -- the Commercial
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Stakeholder Group and the Non-Commercial
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Stakeholder Group.  There is no valid way
>>>>>>>>>>>                 that a single panelist could provide the
>>>>>>>>>>>                 sharply different perspectives of these two
>>>>>>>>>>>                 stakeholder groups.  Even having a single
>>>>>>>>>>>                 panelist representative the different
>>>>>>>>>>>                 perspectives of IP stakeholders, ISPs and
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Connectivity Providers, and the business
>>>>>>>>>>>                 user community is a stretch (which hopefully
>>>>>>>>>>>                 would be mitigated by Q&A).  I would say
>>>>>>>>>>>                 that if only panelist came from the NCPH,
>>>>>>>>>>>                 they should come from the CSG, as we would
>>>>>>>>>>>                 offer a more distinguishable perspective,
>>>>>>>>>>>                 but frankly that would be unfair to the
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Non-Commercial side of the house (which
>>>>>>>>>>>                 itself includes a range of viewpoints), and
>>>>>>>>>>>                 I don't want to be unfair to the NCSG and
>>>>>>>>>>>                 its constituencies either.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                     à Therefore our suggestion for the
>>>>>>>>>>>                     panel: Becky Burr, Thomas Schneider, Jim
>>>>>>>>>>>                     Galvin
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Greg: This neatly includes the contracted
>>>>>>>>>>>                 parties (Registries and Registrars) and
>>>>>>>>>>>                 excluded the commercial private sector
>>>>>>>>>>>                 represented in the NCPH. This is not
>>>>>>>>>>>                 acceptable.  (Which is why James, as Chair
>>>>>>>>>>>                 of the GNSO, wisely suggested 2 panelists
>>>>>>>>>>>                 from the NCPH.)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 This description was provided by Peter:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                     A community-wide event will be organised
>>>>>>>>>>>                     on 13 March 2017 under the form of a
>>>>>>>>>>>                     High Interest Topic “sponsored” by the
>>>>>>>>>>>                     Generic Names Supporting Organization
>>>>>>>>>>>                     (GNSO) Council (and possibly by the
>>>>>>>>>>>                     Governmental Advisory Committee (GAC) as
>>>>>>>>>>>                     well) which will enable the
>>>>>>>>>>>                     participation of interested ICANN
>>>>>>>>>>>                     communities.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Greg: We are an interested ICANN community
>>>>>>>>>>>                 and we have been seeking to participate
>>>>>>>>>>>                 and/or to have participation from the
>>>>>>>>>>>                 enforcement/cybercrime/infringement side of
>>>>>>>>>>>                 the roster.  So far with no success.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                     The session could be jointly opened by
>>>>>>>>>>>                     the CEO of ICANN Board and the Director
>>>>>>>>>>>                     of Information Society and Action
>>>>>>>>>>>                     against Crime of the Council of Europe.
>>>>>>>>>>>                     During the session the United Nations’
>>>>>>>>>>>                     Special Rapporteur on the right to
>>>>>>>>>>>                     privacy, the co-Chair of the Article 29
>>>>>>>>>>>                     Working Group and the European Data
>>>>>>>>>>>                     Protection Supervisor together with high
>>>>>>>>>>>                     level representatives of registries’
>>>>>>>>>>>                     group, the registrars’ group and the GAC
>>>>>>>>>>>                     will address in 10 minutes each the
>>>>>>>>>>>                     above mentioned topics. During the
>>>>>>>>>>>                     session the involvement of the audience
>>>>>>>>>>>                     will be guaranteed by an open mike slot.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                     I think during the last days, weeks we
>>>>>>>>>>>                     have reached an agreement on Ms Becky
>>>>>>>>>>>                     Burr moderating the panel and having
>>>>>>>>>>>                     James Galvin as representative for
>>>>>>>>>>>                     registries’ group (both seemed to agree
>>>>>>>>>>>                     on that). If we follow this logic we
>>>>>>>>>>>                     would need one representative from the
>>>>>>>>>>>                     GAC and one from registrars’ group. (We
>>>>>>>>>>>                     previously
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                     P
>>>>>>>>>>>                     suggested that the chair of these
>>>>>>>>>>>                     communities could be invited to speak
>>>>>>>>>>>                     under these two slots).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Greg: Not to sound like a broken record, but
>>>>>>>>>>>                 this emphasis on including the contracted
>>>>>>>>>>>                 parties to the exclusion of the
>>>>>>>>>>>                 non-contracted parties really runs counter
>>>>>>>>>>>                 to multistakeholder sensibilities.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 If the emphasis is on "high level
>>>>>>>>>>>                 representatives" and "chairs" I would be
>>>>>>>>>>>                 willing to join the panel as the chair of my
>>>>>>>>>>>                 community, though we may have better
>>>>>>>>>>>                 candidates on substance (including Vicky,
>>>>>>>>>>>                 who is our vice chair).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 In response to my email asking what her
>>>>>>>>>>>                 goals for the panel were (and which stated
>>>>>>>>>>>                 much of what I've restated above), Stephanie
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Perrin wrote: Peter and the COE are
>>>>>>>>>>>                 organizing this.  I will let them explain
>>>>>>>>>>>                 the goals.  In my personal view....data
>>>>>>>>>>>                 protection commissioners are not present at
>>>>>>>>>>>                 ICANN.  The dialogue has been anything but
>>>>>>>>>>>                 robust, although they have been attempting
>>>>>>>>>>>                 to engage for many many years.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Vicky responded:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                     It is clear we need additional
>>>>>>>>>>>                     perspectives to make this a robust
>>>>>>>>>>>                     panel. I think james is a good addition
>>>>>>>>>>>                     and  we also need someone with Cathrin's
>>>>>>>>>>>                     perspective,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                     Greg: We still need that perspective.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Peter responded with COE's goals:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 The panellists will be invited to exchange
>>>>>>>>>>>                 views on the privacy and data protection
>>>>>>>>>>>                 implications of processing of WHOIS data,
>>>>>>>>>>>                 third party access to personal data and the
>>>>>>>>>>>                 issue of accountability for the processing
>>>>>>>>>>>                 of personal data. The expected outcome of
>>>>>>>>>>>                 the event is a better mutual understanding
>>>>>>>>>>>                 of the underlying questions related to the
>>>>>>>>>>>                 protection of privacy and personal data and
>>>>>>>>>>>                 the strengthening of an open and inclusive
>>>>>>>>>>>                 dialogue on these issues, to be carried on
>>>>>>>>>>>                 anytime deemed necessary.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Greg: We are among those "third parties" and
>>>>>>>>>>>                 we are seeking to be included in an open and
>>>>>>>>>>>                 inclusive dialogue, and to include the
>>>>>>>>>>>                 perspective of government as among those
>>>>>>>>>>>                 "third parties" as well.  I'm not sure why
>>>>>>>>>>>                 this has become quite so difficult.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Prior to that Peter wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 I really don’t want to hurt anybody
>>>>>>>>>>>                 personally, I find this exchange of mails
>>>>>>>>>>>                 rather odd [discussion of the importance of
>>>>>>>>>>>                 EDPS, correction of Ms. Bauer-Bulst's
>>>>>>>>>>>                 characterization of the EDPS as a "body that
>>>>>>>>>>>                 advises,"  and the relative ranks of various
>>>>>>>>>>>                 potential panelists removed for space]
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Greg: I'm not sure why you find this
>>>>>>>>>>>                 exchange of emails "rather odd", but perhaps
>>>>>>>>>>>                 it traces back to the mismatch between a
>>>>>>>>>>>                 community-planned HIT and a panel planned by
>>>>>>>>>>>                 the CoE. These emails are our attempts at
>>>>>>>>>>>                 community planning -- again an essentially
>>>>>>>>>>>                 multistakeholder effort.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 In response to Stephanie's question to me
>>>>>>>>>>>                 "Who would you propose?" (responding to my
>>>>>>>>>>>                 view that we needed a panel that represented
>>>>>>>>>>>                 multiple perspectives), Peter wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 I think we all are on the same
>>>>>>>>>>>                 page...therefore I suggest to include Becky
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Burr to this panel. She was recommended by
>>>>>>>>>>>                 other constituencies as well so if you agree
>>>>>>>>>>>                 we can move along.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Greg: I respect Becky immensely and already
>>>>>>>>>>>                 said she was a great choice on many counts. 
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Yet, the response above misses my point --
>>>>>>>>>>>                 that we need perspectives beyond data
>>>>>>>>>>>                 protection officials and "the industry."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Any more would be piling on, but I wanted to
>>>>>>>>>>>                 note just a couple more things.  One was
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Peter's suggestion that /The current state
>>>>>>>>>>>                 of preparation would imply the following
>>>>>>>>>>>                 meetings/-/a session with the GAC
>>>>>>>>>>>                 plenary,/-/a working lunch with the
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Board,/-/community wide afternoon session
>>>>>>>>>>>                 possibly in the format of an “High Interest
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Topic”./-/alternatively or subsequently a
>>>>>>>>>>>                 joint meeting with GNSO Council and ccNSO
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Council /-/bilateral meetings with NSCG,
>>>>>>>>>>>                 NCUC and ALAC/
>>>>>>>>>>>                 //
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Greg: I would suggest that a bilateral
>>>>>>>>>>>                 meeting with the CSG (and not merely with
>>>>>>>>>>>                 the more /simpatico/ community groups)
>>>>>>>>>>>                 should be considered, to say the least.  We
>>>>>>>>>>>                 would be honored to have such a meeting (and
>>>>>>>>>>>                 we don't bite).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Peter wrote, in response to Vicky:
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Separately, please note I anticipate having
>>>>>>>>>>>                 some additional suggestions for
>>>>>>>>>>>                 consideration for this panel by the end of
>>>>>>>>>>>                 next week. àPlease do so, but you have to
>>>>>>>>>>>                 understand that it is rather strange that 1
>>>>>>>>>>>                 month away of the event we don’t know who
>>>>>>>>>>>                 the speakers would be. We have also made
>>>>>>>>>>>                 suggestions which we believe enjoy the
>>>>>>>>>>>                 support of many in GNSO (and beyond) fellows
>>>>>>>>>>>                 and follows the idea of multi-stakeholderism
>>>>>>>>>>>                 and cover the main issues Victoria suggested
>>>>>>>>>>>                 us to take into account including third
>>>>>>>>>>>                 party access to data. I would recommend to
>>>>>>>>>>>                 consider those and come back to us as
>>>>>>>>>>>                 quickly as you can…
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Greg: Given that this session was only
>>>>>>>>>>>                 suggested as a High Interest Topic on
>>>>>>>>>>>                 January 23, it's not so strange that we have
>>>>>>>>>>>                 not finalized the speakers list.  We began
>>>>>>>>>>>                 discussing the other HIT sessions quite a
>>>>>>>>>>>                 bit earlier.  That said, the sooner we can
>>>>>>>>>>>                 bring the necessary people with the
>>>>>>>>>>>                 necessary perspectives and the necessary
>>>>>>>>>>>                 protocol-sensitive rank (apologies for our
>>>>>>>>>>>                 insensitivity to protocol concerns; I guess
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Americans don't do well with rank, and one
>>>>>>>>>>>                 of the refreshing aspects of the ICANN
>>>>>>>>>>>                 milieu is that rank is generally absent from
>>>>>>>>>>>                 our considerations).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 I will once again emphasize that GNSO is
>>>>>>>>>>>                 itself a multistakeholder organization so
>>>>>>>>>>>                 having "the support of many in GNSO" does
>>>>>>>>>>>                 not mean that your suggestions have the
>>>>>>>>>>>                 support of our part of the GNSO (hence, our
>>>>>>>>>>>                 attempts since late last month). Leaving out
>>>>>>>>>>>                 the commercial sector does not quite follow
>>>>>>>>>>>                 the idea of multistakeholderism....
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 I would love nothing more for us to resolve
>>>>>>>>>>>                 this to our collective and individual
>>>>>>>>>>>                 satisfaction and move on. I look forward to
>>>>>>>>>>>                 doing so.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Best Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Greg Shatan
>>>>>>>>>>>                 President
>>>>>>>>>>>                 Intellectual Property Constituency
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>                 NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>                 NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>>>>>>>>                 <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>>>>>>>>>                 <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>         NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>>>>>>         NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>>>>>>>         https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>>>>>>>         <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>     NCSG-PC mailing list
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>>>>>>>     https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>>>>>     <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>>>>>>>
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