[NCSG-PC] Fwd: Re: ICANN58 Data Protection Session Planning

Stephanie Perrin stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
Wed Feb 22 21:30:34 EET 2017


at this point I don't really know Kathy, I think I need an update from 
Peter.  Not sure what he is working on at the moment....

But I will share my schedule once I get it all filled in, that could be 
useful to those who want to follow privacy issues.  Busy busy schedule 
for Copenhagen...

cheers STephanie


On 2017-02-22 13:55, Kathy Kleiman wrote:
>
> Stephanie, what are the slots on Monday (and perhaps Tuesday) that we 
> should be attending to cheer loudly for the Data Protection 
> Commissioners, you and Peter Kimpian of the Council of Europe?  Can't 
> wait to be at these events!
>
> Best and tx, Kathy
>
> On 2/22/2017 1:30 PM, Stephanie Perrin wrote:
>>
>> I was just contacted by the Data Protection Officer for Europol (who 
>> happens to be an old colleague, I saw her in Brussels). She is 
>> interested in attending the Copenhagen meeting, and I took the 
>> liberty of inviting her to come and speak to us....she gave me the 
>> manual for the data protection officers in Europol, and it would be 
>> great to hear what law enforcement is /supposed/ to be doing to 
>> protect data.....
>>
>> I dont think I have quite talked her into coming yet but there is 
>> definitely interest...
>>
>> cheers Steph
>>
>>
>> On 2017-02-18 01:07, Stephanie Perrin wrote:
>>>
>>> unfortunately, commissioners are not going to stay till Wednesday, 
>>> it is all getting crammed into Monday.  best we could do would be 
>>> something first thing Tuesday.....
>>>
>>> I think Chuck has got some time in there somehow.....can remember 
>>> when but will find it and send to the list
>>>
>>> SP
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2017-02-17 19:26, Ayden Férdeline wrote:
>>>> If I understand correctly, the Commissioners are visiting us on the 
>>>> Wednesday? In that case, for maximum attendance, it might be best 
>>>> if our session was from 1:45pm to 3:00pm. But I do not know what 
>>>> the rest of their day looks like. Thanks again for organising this.
>>>>
>>>> Ayden
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NCSG-PC] Fwd: Re: ICANN58 Data Protection Session 
>>>>> Planning
>>>>> Local Time: 15 February 2017 9:38 PM
>>>>> UTC Time: 15 February 2017 21:38
>>>>> From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
>>>>> To: ncsg-pc at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> you are right, it is on Saturday
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2017-02-15 12:33, Ayden Férdeline wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Stephanie,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't see an RDS meeting scheduled for the Wednesday? Perhaps 
>>>>>> it is on the schedule under a different name, or perhaps I have 
>>>>>> just missed it? (Here is a link to the tentative schedule 
>>>>>> <http://lists.ncuc.org/pipermail/ncuc-discuss/attachments/20170214/01a86592/attachment.pdf>.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ayden
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NCSG-PC] Fwd: Re: ICANN58 Data Protection Session 
>>>>>>> Planning
>>>>>>> Local Time: 15 February 2017 11:55 AM
>>>>>>> UTC Time: 15 February 2017 11:55
>>>>>>> From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
>>>>>>> To: Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> ncsg-pc <ncsg-pc at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ok so Maryam got back to me.  THey forgot it.  (how 
>>>>>>> Convenient).  So do we have a preferred timeslot?  I will ask 
>>>>>>> Peter....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Steph
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2017-02-15 00:28, Rafik Dammak wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi Stephanie,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think what Farzaneh wanted to highlight is that NCSG made a 
>>>>>>>> meeting request for NCSG-DPA session but you are saying that 
>>>>>>>> DPA will go to RDS session instead?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Rafik
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2017-02-15 14:12 GMT+09:00 Stephanie Perrin 
>>>>>>>> <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca 
>>>>>>>> <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     Wednesday is still our day alone to use as we see fit.
>>>>>>>>     Chuck is trying to get Mr Cannatucci to attend our RDS
>>>>>>>>     meeting on Wednesday., I will forward that thread to you as
>>>>>>>>     well.  All the other sessions are monday
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     On 2017-02-14 23:59, farzaneh badii wrote:
>>>>>>>>>     Hi Stephanie,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>     We both asked Maryam to follow up on NCSG session with the
>>>>>>>>>     UN special rapp. I think would be helpful that Tapani also
>>>>>>>>>     follows up since it's an NCSG request and we still don't
>>>>>>>>>     see it on the schedule. Did I interpret it wrong that you
>>>>>>>>>     said Chuck was planning to turn that into a GNSO meeting.
>>>>>>>>>     Is the wednesday session only NCSG meeting wtih the UN rapp?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>     Farzaneh
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>     On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 11:23 PM, Stephanie Perrin
>>>>>>>>>     <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
>>>>>>>>>     <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>         What happened is this:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>           * GAC was asked to sponsor, never got it done
>>>>>>>>>           * GNSO was asked to sponsor, proposed instead to
>>>>>>>>>             replace a lapsed HIT with this panel
>>>>>>>>>           * Invitations went out for the opening day of the
>>>>>>>>>             conference (they had to, these are busy guys)
>>>>>>>>>           * IPC weighed in demanding balanced HIT style panels
>>>>>>>>>             (Victoria sheckler their person on this)
>>>>>>>>>           * Side meetings have apparently been arranged
>>>>>>>>>           * only guy available for our meeting on Wednesday is
>>>>>>>>>             UN Special Rapporteur for privacy (grateful for
>>>>>>>>>             this, this is a big deal and I am trying to get
>>>>>>>>>             his latest book read prior to the event
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>         Last version I saw of the schedule we did not have a
>>>>>>>>>         session.  You were checking on that.  Chuck Gomes was
>>>>>>>>>         asking for time for the PDP on RDS but Monday is only
>>>>>>>>>         day, he is trying for 8 am breakfast meeting.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>         cheers Steph
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>         On 2017-02-14 23:09, farzaneh badii wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>         Hi Stephanie,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>         Can you clarify something for me? Is this the
>>>>>>>>>>         Cross- Community Discussion with
>>>>>>>>>>         Data Protection Commissioners?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>         If so, didn't we also submit a session request ( NCSG
>>>>>>>>>>         request)? Did that turn into the above session? Where
>>>>>>>>>>         did this session come from and where is NCSG session?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>         Farzaneh
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>         On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:43 PM, Stephanie Perrin
>>>>>>>>>>         <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
>>>>>>>>>>         <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             I am biting my tongue on this.  As some of you
>>>>>>>>>>             heard, I raised this with Goran.  I am tempted to
>>>>>>>>>>             just slide it along to him. With of course a
>>>>>>>>>>             mention of how the GAC and ICANN staff sat on
>>>>>>>>>>             this from Hyderabad until mid January.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             Suggestions welcome. Pissed off, am I.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             Steph
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>>>>>>>>>             Subject:
>>>>>>>>>>             	Re: ICANN58 Data Protection Session Planning
>>>>>>>>>>             Date:
>>>>>>>>>>             	Tue, 14 Feb 2017 21:52:54 -0500
>>>>>>>>>>             From:
>>>>>>>>>>             	Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>             <mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>             To:
>>>>>>>>>>             	KIMPIAN Peter <Peter.KIMPIAN at coe.int>
>>>>>>>>>>             <mailto:Peter.KIMPIAN at coe.int>
>>>>>>>>>>             CC:
>>>>>>>>>>             	Victoria Sheckler <vsheckler at riaa.com>
>>>>>>>>>>             <mailto:vsheckler at riaa.com>, James M. Bladel
>>>>>>>>>>             <jbladel at godaddy.com>
>>>>>>>>>>             <mailto:jbladel at godaddy.com>,
>>>>>>>>>>             kathy at kathykleiman.com
>>>>>>>>>>             <mailto:kathy at kathykleiman.com>
>>>>>>>>>>             <kathy at kathykleiman.com>
>>>>>>>>>>             <mailto:kathy at kathykleiman.com>,
>>>>>>>>>>             donna.austin at neustar.biz
>>>>>>>>>>             <mailto:donna.austin at neustar.biz>
>>>>>>>>>>             <donna.austin at neustar.biz>
>>>>>>>>>>             <mailto:donna.austin at neustar.biz>,
>>>>>>>>>>             heather.forrest at acu.edu.au
>>>>>>>>>>             <mailto:heather.forrest at acu.edu.au>
>>>>>>>>>>             <heather.forrest at acu.edu.au>
>>>>>>>>>>             <mailto:heather.forrest at acu.edu.au>, Stephanie
>>>>>>>>>>             Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>
>>>>>>>>>>             <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>,
>>>>>>>>>>             KWASNY Sophie <Sophie.KWASNY at coe.int>
>>>>>>>>>>             <mailto:Sophie.KWASNY at coe.int>, Wilson,
>>>>>>>>>>             Christopher <cwilson at 21cf.com>
>>>>>>>>>>             <mailto:cwilson at 21cf.com>, Tony Holmes
>>>>>>>>>>             <tonyarholmes at btinternet.com>
>>>>>>>>>>             <mailto:tonyarholmes at btinternet.com>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             All,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             /First, apologies for the length of this message
>>>>>>>>>>             and a tone that is more strident than I intend it
>>>>>>>>>>             to be.  Another pass through this email could
>>>>>>>>>>             smooth the rough edges, but it is 2:45 am in
>>>>>>>>>>             Reykjavik and I have a 7:15 breakfast meeting, so
>>>>>>>>>>             my capacity is exhausted (and so am I). Please
>>>>>>>>>>             read this with a friendly, collegial tone in mind
>>>>>>>>>>             and indulge me  where I have failed to have the
>>>>>>>>>>             tone of the text match my desire to be a good
>>>>>>>>>>             working partner (and to "disagree without being
>>>>>>>>>>             disagreeable") even where our perspectives may
>>>>>>>>>>             differ.  (As partial explanation, my sport of
>>>>>>>>>>             choice in my youth was rugby ("a ruffian's game
>>>>>>>>>>             played by gentlemen"), while fencing probably
>>>>>>>>>>             would have been more apropos....)/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             I am quite concerned with where we are in this
>>>>>>>>>>             discussion. There are either some substantial
>>>>>>>>>>             misunderstandings about what this session, as a
>>>>>>>>>>             "High Interest Topic", is supposed to be -- or
>>>>>>>>>>             there is an apparent intent to exclude
>>>>>>>>>>             perspectives that will keep this from being a
>>>>>>>>>>             celebration of data protection principles.  I
>>>>>>>>>>             hope it's the former, but even that is unfortunate.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             Perhaps the root of the problem is combining the
>>>>>>>>>>             original idea for a CoE-organized presentation
>>>>>>>>>>             with the High Interest Topic (HIT) concept -- or
>>>>>>>>>>             perhaps that just highlighted the inherent
>>>>>>>>>>             problem with the session. HIT doesn't just refer
>>>>>>>>>>             to a level of interest -- it's supposed to be a
>>>>>>>>>>             community-generated proposal that is then planned
>>>>>>>>>>             and presented with multistakeholder participation
>>>>>>>>>>             (and _not_ merely by the proposing
>>>>>>>>>>             organization).  One of the problems we had with
>>>>>>>>>>             the last round of HITs was a proposal for a HIT
>>>>>>>>>>             session to be planned and presented by a single
>>>>>>>>>>             part of the community, largely consisting of a
>>>>>>>>>>             presentation by one of its members and only minor
>>>>>>>>>>             roles for any sector not sympathetic to the views
>>>>>>>>>>             of this member and community group.  This was
>>>>>>>>>>             inconsistent with the idea that the proposing
>>>>>>>>>>             organization does not control the content of a
>>>>>>>>>>             HIT session. Fortunately, the original planners
>>>>>>>>>>             agreed to to expand to a more diverse planning
>>>>>>>>>>             team, with the result being a more diverse panel
>>>>>>>>>>             and a very lively and well-received session. 
>>>>>>>>>>             When community leaders got on the phone to
>>>>>>>>>>             consider this round of HITs, we wanted to avoid a
>>>>>>>>>>             replay of this situation (although it ended well
>>>>>>>>>>             enough).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             When this data protection session was brought to
>>>>>>>>>>             the community leaders group as a late suggestion
>>>>>>>>>>             for one of the HIT slots, I was concerned we
>>>>>>>>>>             might be heading for a replay, so the IPC
>>>>>>>>>>             specified that one of our members (Vicky) should
>>>>>>>>>>             be added to the planning group (knowing that at
>>>>>>>>>>             least one other constituency shared very similar
>>>>>>>>>>             concerns). Unlike the last time, where we were
>>>>>>>>>>             able to get a hand on the tiller and help turn
>>>>>>>>>>             the ship, I've found our attempts to be largely
>>>>>>>>>>             rebuffed. This has been increasingly frustrating.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             I'd like to respond to some of the specific
>>>>>>>>>>             statements on this thread since I last had an
>>>>>>>>>>             opportunity to respond:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             Vicky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>             I don’t see here (but I am also sleep deprived)
>>>>>>>>>>             which panelist will represent public safety /
>>>>>>>>>>             transparency / enforcement concerns.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             Peter responded:
>>>>>>>>>>             Uuhhh, if you are in US it is quite early for
>>>>>>>>>>             you…in my sense usually the governments are
>>>>>>>>>>             responsible and accountable for the issues you
>>>>>>>>>>             mentioned, therefore it seemed to me logical that
>>>>>>>>>>             those issues will be taken care by a
>>>>>>>>>>             representative of the GAC. Besides that, the PSWG
>>>>>>>>>>             is a sub-group of the GAC which is deliberately
>>>>>>>>>>             discussing those issues you mentioned…
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             Greg: This misses the point of Vicky's question
>>>>>>>>>>             and perhaps misses a fundamental point about
>>>>>>>>>>             ICANN -- that it is a multistakeholder
>>>>>>>>>>             organization and /not/ a multilateral
>>>>>>>>>>             organization. Governments are not the only ones
>>>>>>>>>>             concerned with investigation and enforcement --
>>>>>>>>>>             there are also significant parts of the private
>>>>>>>>>>             sector deeply engaged in investigation and
>>>>>>>>>>             enforcement (and not to put too fine a point on
>>>>>>>>>>             it, but IPC (my group and Vicky's group)
>>>>>>>>>>             represents one of those parts of the private
>>>>>>>>>>             sector).  As such, at least one voice from these
>>>>>>>>>>             parts of the private sector should be present on
>>>>>>>>>>             the panel. Even within governments, there are
>>>>>>>>>>             parts that deal with public safety and
>>>>>>>>>>             enforcement. The idea that a representative of
>>>>>>>>>>             the GAC will provide this perspective seems
>>>>>>>>>>             mistaken.  As fine a chair as the GAC chair is, I
>>>>>>>>>>             don't believe this is his perspective, and the
>>>>>>>>>>             suggestion this would be within his brief seemed
>>>>>>>>>>             based more on protocol than practicality. As
>>>>>>>>>>             revealed in this thread, Ms. Bauer-Bulst is the
>>>>>>>>>>             co-chair of the PSWG, so would be more on point
>>>>>>>>>>             for this perspective (though apparently she is
>>>>>>>>>>             not sufficiently august to appear on the panel,
>>>>>>>>>>             even if she is a Deputy Head of Unit, and not
>>>>>>>>>>             merely a Team Leader as was stated earlier in
>>>>>>>>>>             this exchange).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             Peter replied to James Bladel in red below:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                 Thanks, Peter.  Looks like I did miss this at
>>>>>>>>>>                 some point, so please accept my apologies for
>>>>>>>>>>                 the confusion.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                 Generally, I"m ok with this, but a few thoughts:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                 * I'm not sure what "sponsored" by the GNSO
>>>>>>>>>>                 means in this context. Maybe we could say
>>>>>>>>>>                 something like "convened" or "supported"
>>>>>>>>>>                 jointly by the GNSO & GAC?à this expression
>>>>>>>>>>                 was used by ICANN staff but I can only agree
>>>>>>>>>>                 that those you suggested are much better.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             Greg: From my point of view, this support is
>>>>>>>>>>             predicated on the panel representing multiple
>>>>>>>>>>             perspectives.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                 * I think we need to keep the number
>>>>>>>>>>                 panelists to an absolute minimum.à I agree.
>>>>>>>>>>                 3+3 should be the maximum (!).  If we strive
>>>>>>>>>>                 to represent all seven GNSO SG/Cs, plus GAC,
>>>>>>>>>>                 plus COE/DPAs, then this session runs the
>>>>>>>>>>                 risk of becoming "Death by PowerPoint" and
>>>>>>>>>>                 dosn't leave much time for Q&A.  To that end,
>>>>>>>>>>                 I will let Graeme know that we are looking
>>>>>>>>>>                 for a RrSG panelist, but would encourage them
>>>>>>>>>>                 to reach out to Jim Galvin and see if he is
>>>>>>>>>>                 comfortable representing industry generally.
>>>>>>>>>>                 Or if we need another CPH person that can
>>>>>>>>>>                 wear both "hats."à not necessarily as Jim
>>>>>>>>>>                 could represent it quite well, I am sure.
>>>>>>>>>>                 (Being said that we would have preferred more
>>>>>>>>>>                 focus on the industry itself and to the
>>>>>>>>>>                 different players as they are the first level
>>>>>>>>>>                 data controllers. All NCPH and GAC related
>>>>>>>>>>                 groups are secondary only) But if the
>>>>>>>>>>                 internal dynamic of GNSO is as such, be it,
>>>>>>>>>>                 but in this case we suggest Becky Burr to be
>>>>>>>>>>                 on the panel (and not being moderator).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             Greg: ICANN and the GNSO are not merely about
>>>>>>>>>>             "the industry." If you wanted an industry facing
>>>>>>>>>>             program or a dialogue only with "the industry",
>>>>>>>>>>             the appropriate place for that would be the GDD
>>>>>>>>>>             (Global Domains Division) Summit.  As the
>>>>>>>>>>             President of an "NCPH related group" I can assure
>>>>>>>>>>             you that our concerns about data protection and
>>>>>>>>>>             privacy are not "secondary" -- at least not to us
>>>>>>>>>>             and our stakeholder community. This further shows
>>>>>>>>>>             the problem of "perspectives" as this panel is
>>>>>>>>>>             being planned.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                 * Similarly, I think the NCPH should strive
>>>>>>>>>>                 for ~2 panelists. Again, I apologize if the
>>>>>>>>>>                 discussions were already headed in this
>>>>>>>>>>                 direction, as I have lost track of the names
>>>>>>>>>>                 proposed in this thread.à I really think that
>>>>>>>>>>                 if CPH has one panellist NCPH should also has
>>>>>>>>>>                 to have 1 only because of the arguments
>>>>>>>>>>                 expressed above.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             Greg: Peter, you may not know it (or perhaps you
>>>>>>>>>>             may) but the NCPH is an umbrella over two parts
>>>>>>>>>>             of the GNSO -- the Commercial Stakeholder Group
>>>>>>>>>>             and the Non-Commercial Stakeholder Group.  There
>>>>>>>>>>             is no valid way that a single panelist could
>>>>>>>>>>             provide the sharply different perspectives of
>>>>>>>>>>             these two stakeholder groups.  Even having a
>>>>>>>>>>             single panelist representative the different
>>>>>>>>>>             perspectives of IP stakeholders, ISPs and
>>>>>>>>>>             Connectivity Providers, and the business user
>>>>>>>>>>             community is a stretch (which hopefully would be
>>>>>>>>>>             mitigated by Q&A).  I would say that if only
>>>>>>>>>>             panelist came from the NCPH, they should come
>>>>>>>>>>             from the CSG, as we would offer a more
>>>>>>>>>>             distinguishable perspective, but frankly that
>>>>>>>>>>             would be unfair to the Non-Commercial side of the
>>>>>>>>>>             house (which itself includes a range of
>>>>>>>>>>             viewpoints), and I don't want to be unfair to the
>>>>>>>>>>             NCSG and its constituencies either.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                 à Therefore our suggestion for the panel:
>>>>>>>>>>                 Becky Burr, Thomas Schneider, Jim Galvin
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             Greg: This neatly includes the contracted parties
>>>>>>>>>>             (Registries and Registrars) and excluded the
>>>>>>>>>>             commercial private sector represented in the
>>>>>>>>>>             NCPH. This is not acceptable.  (Which is why
>>>>>>>>>>             James, as Chair of the GNSO, wisely suggested 2
>>>>>>>>>>             panelists from the NCPH.)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             This description was provided by Peter:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                 A community-wide event will be organised on
>>>>>>>>>>                 13 March 2017 under the form of a High
>>>>>>>>>>                 Interest Topic “sponsored” by the Generic
>>>>>>>>>>                 Names Supporting Organization (GNSO) Council
>>>>>>>>>>                 (and possibly by the Governmental Advisory
>>>>>>>>>>                 Committee (GAC) as well) which will enable
>>>>>>>>>>                 the participation of interested ICANN
>>>>>>>>>>                 communities.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             Greg: We are an interested ICANN community and we
>>>>>>>>>>             have been seeking to participate and/or to have
>>>>>>>>>>             participation from the
>>>>>>>>>>             enforcement/cybercrime/infringement side of the
>>>>>>>>>>             roster.  So far with no success.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                 The session could be jointly opened by the
>>>>>>>>>>                 CEO of ICANN Board and the Director of
>>>>>>>>>>                 Information Society and Action against Crime
>>>>>>>>>>                 of the Council of Europe. During the session
>>>>>>>>>>                 the United Nations’ Special Rapporteur on the
>>>>>>>>>>                 right to privacy, the co-Chair of the Article
>>>>>>>>>>                 29 Working Group and the European Data
>>>>>>>>>>                 Protection Supervisor together with high
>>>>>>>>>>                 level representatives of registries’ group,
>>>>>>>>>>                 the registrars’ group and the GAC will
>>>>>>>>>>                 address in 10 minutes each the above
>>>>>>>>>>                 mentioned topics. During the session the
>>>>>>>>>>                 involvement of the audience will be
>>>>>>>>>>                 guaranteed by an open mike slot.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                 I think during the last days, weeks we have
>>>>>>>>>>                 reached an agreement on Ms Becky Burr
>>>>>>>>>>                 moderating the panel and having James Galvin
>>>>>>>>>>                 as representative for registries’ group (both
>>>>>>>>>>                 seemed to agree on that). If we follow this
>>>>>>>>>>                 logic we would need one representative from
>>>>>>>>>>                 the GAC and one from registrars’ group. (We
>>>>>>>>>>                 previously
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                 P
>>>>>>>>>>                 suggested that the chair of these communities
>>>>>>>>>>                 could be invited to speak under these two slots).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             Greg: Not to sound like a broken record, but this
>>>>>>>>>>             emphasis on including the contracted parties to
>>>>>>>>>>             the exclusion of the non-contracted parties
>>>>>>>>>>             really runs counter to multistakeholder
>>>>>>>>>>             sensibilities.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             If the emphasis is on "high level
>>>>>>>>>>             representatives" and "chairs" I would be willing
>>>>>>>>>>             to join the panel as the chair of my community,
>>>>>>>>>>             though we may have better candidates on substance
>>>>>>>>>>             (including Vicky, who is our vice chair).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             In response to my email asking what her goals for
>>>>>>>>>>             the panel were (and which stated much of what
>>>>>>>>>>             I've restated above), Stephanie Perrin wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>             Peter and the COE are organizing this.  I will
>>>>>>>>>>             let them explain the goals.  In my personal
>>>>>>>>>>             view....data protection commissioners are not
>>>>>>>>>>             present at ICANN.  The dialogue has been anything
>>>>>>>>>>             but robust, although they have been attempting to
>>>>>>>>>>             engage for many many years.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             Vicky responded:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                 It is clear we need additional perspectives
>>>>>>>>>>                 to make this a robust panel. I think james is
>>>>>>>>>>                 a good addition and  we also need someone
>>>>>>>>>>                 with Cathrin's perspective,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                 Greg: We still need that perspective.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             Peter responded with COE's goals:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             The panellists will be invited to exchange views
>>>>>>>>>>             on the privacy and data protection implications
>>>>>>>>>>             of processing of WHOIS data, third party access
>>>>>>>>>>             to personal data and the issue of accountability
>>>>>>>>>>             for the processing of personal data. The expected
>>>>>>>>>>             outcome of the event is a better mutual
>>>>>>>>>>             understanding of the underlying questions related
>>>>>>>>>>             to the protection of privacy and personal data
>>>>>>>>>>             and the strengthening of an open and inclusive
>>>>>>>>>>             dialogue on these issues, to be carried on
>>>>>>>>>>             anytime deemed necessary.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             Greg: We are among those "third parties" and we
>>>>>>>>>>             are seeking to be included in an open and
>>>>>>>>>>             inclusive dialogue, and to include the
>>>>>>>>>>             perspective of government as among those "third
>>>>>>>>>>             parties" as well.  I'm not sure why this has
>>>>>>>>>>             become quite so difficult.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             Prior to that Peter wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             I really don’t want to hurt anybody personally, I
>>>>>>>>>>             find this exchange of mails rather odd
>>>>>>>>>>             [discussion of the importance of EDPS, correction
>>>>>>>>>>             of Ms. Bauer-Bulst's characterization of the EDPS
>>>>>>>>>>             as a "body that advises,"  and the relative ranks
>>>>>>>>>>             of various potential panelists removed for space]
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             Greg: I'm not sure why you find this exchange of
>>>>>>>>>>             emails "rather odd", but perhaps it traces back
>>>>>>>>>>             to the mismatch between a community-planned HIT
>>>>>>>>>>             and a panel planned by the CoE. These emails are
>>>>>>>>>>             our attempts at community planning -- again an
>>>>>>>>>>             essentially multistakeholder effort.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             In response to Stephanie's question to me "Who
>>>>>>>>>>             would you propose?" (responding to my view that
>>>>>>>>>>             we needed a panel that represented multiple
>>>>>>>>>>             perspectives), Peter wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             I think we all are on the same page...therefore I
>>>>>>>>>>             suggest to include Becky Burr to this panel. She
>>>>>>>>>>             was recommended by other constituencies as well
>>>>>>>>>>             so if you agree we can move along.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             Greg: I respect Becky immensely and already said
>>>>>>>>>>             she was a great choice on many counts.  Yet, the
>>>>>>>>>>             response above misses my point -- that we need
>>>>>>>>>>             perspectives beyond data protection officials and
>>>>>>>>>>             "the industry."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             Any more would be piling on, but I wanted to note
>>>>>>>>>>             just a couple more things.  One was Peter's
>>>>>>>>>>             suggestion that /The current state of preparation
>>>>>>>>>>             would imply the following meetings/-/a session
>>>>>>>>>>             with the GAC plenary,/-/a working lunch with the
>>>>>>>>>>             Board,/-/community wide afternoon session
>>>>>>>>>>             possibly in the format of an “High Interest
>>>>>>>>>>             Topic”./-/alternatively or subsequently a joint
>>>>>>>>>>             meeting with GNSO Council and ccNSO Council
>>>>>>>>>>             /-/bilateral meetings with NSCG, NCUC and ALAC/
>>>>>>>>>>             //
>>>>>>>>>>             Greg: I would suggest that a bilateral meeting
>>>>>>>>>>             with the CSG (and not merely with the more
>>>>>>>>>>             /simpatico/ community groups) should be
>>>>>>>>>>             considered, to say the least.  We would be
>>>>>>>>>>             honored to have such a meeting (and we don't bite).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             Peter wrote, in response to Vicky:
>>>>>>>>>>             Separately, please note I anticipate having some
>>>>>>>>>>             additional suggestions for consideration for this
>>>>>>>>>>             panel by the end of next week. àPlease do so, but
>>>>>>>>>>             you have to understand that it is rather strange
>>>>>>>>>>             that 1 month away of the event we don’t know who
>>>>>>>>>>             the speakers would be. We have also made
>>>>>>>>>>             suggestions which we believe enjoy the support of
>>>>>>>>>>             many in GNSO (and beyond) fellows and follows the
>>>>>>>>>>             idea of multi-stakeholderism and cover the main
>>>>>>>>>>             issues Victoria suggested us to take into account
>>>>>>>>>>             including third party access to data. I would
>>>>>>>>>>             recommend to consider those and come back to us
>>>>>>>>>>             as quickly as you can…
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             Greg: Given that this session was only suggested
>>>>>>>>>>             as a High Interest Topic on January 23, it's not
>>>>>>>>>>             so strange that we have not finalized the
>>>>>>>>>>             speakers list.  We began discussing the other HIT
>>>>>>>>>>             sessions quite a bit earlier.  That said, the
>>>>>>>>>>             sooner we can bring the necessary people with the
>>>>>>>>>>             necessary perspectives and the necessary
>>>>>>>>>>             protocol-sensitive rank (apologies for our
>>>>>>>>>>             insensitivity to protocol concerns; I guess
>>>>>>>>>>             Americans don't do well with rank, and one of the
>>>>>>>>>>             refreshing aspects of the ICANN milieu is that
>>>>>>>>>>             rank is generally absent from our considerations).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             I will once again emphasize that GNSO is itself a
>>>>>>>>>>             multistakeholder organization so having "the
>>>>>>>>>>             support of many in GNSO" does not mean that your
>>>>>>>>>>             suggestions have the support of our part of the
>>>>>>>>>>             GNSO (hence, our attempts since late last month).
>>>>>>>>>>             Leaving out the commercial sector does not quite
>>>>>>>>>>             follow the idea of multistakeholderism....
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             I would love nothing more for us to resolve this
>>>>>>>>>>             to our collective and individual satisfaction and
>>>>>>>>>>             move on. I look forward to doing so.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             Best Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             Greg Shatan
>>>>>>>>>>             President
>>>>>>>>>>             Intellectual Property Constituency
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>             _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>             NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>             NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>>>>>>>>             https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>>>>>>>>             <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>     NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>>>>>     NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>>>>>>     https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>>>>>>     <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>>>>>
>>>>
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