[PC-NCSG] Fwd: [council] FW: Links between the GNSO (and its support staff) and the "IGO small group" between 2014 and 2016

Stephanie Perrin stephanie.perrin
Sat Nov 5 14:44:09 EET 2016


Ouch.....getting grumpy....FYI



-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: 	[council] FW: Links between the GNSO (and its support staff) 
and the "IGO small group" between 2014 and 2016
Date: 	Sat, 5 Nov 2016 08:51:14 +0000
From: 	Austin, Donna <Donna.Austin at neustar.biz>
To: 	council at gnso.icann.org <council at gnso.icann.org>



Hi All

An email from Thomas Schneider below about the IGO issue for information.

Obviously something we will need to discuss. Please note that both the 
Board and the GAC were copied on this email.

Thanks

Donna

*From:* Thomas.Schneider at bakom.admin.ch 
[mailto:Thomas.Schneider at bakom.admin.ch]
*Sent:* Saturday, November 05, 2016 5:22 AM
*To:* jbladel at godaddy.com; Austin, Donna <Donna.Austin at neustar.biz>; 
heather.forrest at utas.edu.au; mason at donuts.co; gac at icann.org
*Cc:* psc at vlaw-dc.com; petter.rindforth at fenixlegal.eu; 
jrobinson at afilias.info; mary.wong at icann.org; jamie.hedlund at icann.org; 
chris at disspain.uk; icann-board at icann.org
*Subject:* Links between the GNSO (and its support staff) and the "IGO 
small group" between 2014 and 2016

Dear all

As a follow-up of our today?s discussion between the GAC and the GNSO 
about the work of the so called informal ?IGO small group? and the 
assertion of the GNSO council chair and vice chairs that the GNSO had 
had no knowledge about the ?IGO small group? process and work until very 
recently, and as a follow-up to a number of emails I have received on 
this issue since this meeting, I have spent some time to go through my 
email archives from late 2014 to 2016 and ? for the sake of transparency 
and for clarification ? I would like to share with you what I found:

I have found ? fairly regularly distributed over the said period ? an 
estimated number of at least a hundred email exchanges between the 
?small group? of IGO representatives (mainly lead by Jonathan Passaro 
and other colleagues from OECD, the UN and WIPO) and some GAC members 
(in particular Suzanne Radell and myself) and on the one hand and Chris 
Disspain (ICANN Board/NGPC) and a number of ICANN staff people (in 
particular Mary Wong, but also Jamie Hedlund, Olof Nordling and Nigel 
Hickson, and a number of other GNSO support staff) on the other hand. 
Mason Cole as the GNSO-liaison to the GAC was on many emails too and 
Jonathan Robinson as the chair of the GNSO council was on some as well.

As I had not been fully clear at that time myself, I had sent on 23 
April 2015 an email to Mary (and a number other people from ICANN and 
the ?IGO small group?, Chris Disspain and Tom from the ACIG GAC 
secretariat) where I asked for ?clarification about what exactly the 
process (activities, membership, timeline) of this small group is?.

The next day, I received the following answer from Mary: /?//The IGO 
?small group? was formed following discussions with the NGPC at the 
ICANN meeting in Los Angeles in October 2014, to serve as a point of 
contact, representation and input for and from the IGOs with the 
NGPC/Board, GAC *and GNSO*.?/

(Bold marker added by myself - you will find Mary?s complete answer in 
her email below.)

These emails from late 2014 on dealt each with one or both of the 
following issues:


1. requesting respectively providing input from the IGO small group into 
the GNSO Curative Rights PDP working group

(Generally, the input from the IGO small group has been described as 
?very useful? by Mary who had received and forwarded it to the curative 
rights working group. On the side of the IGO small group, there has been 
a growing frustration during 2015, as in their view, their input had not 
been taken into account as they had hoped but they declared that they 
would nevertheless continue to provide input.)

2. informal work on the IGO small group informal proposal for a 
pragmatical solution

The first draft of this informal paper had been produced and shared via 
email by the small group in November 2015 and has then been revised in 
this informal process several times until now. I found mails that show 
that GNSO support (and some other ICANN) staff members had received a 
copy of the draft small group proposal at much earlier stages than just 
now, actually already in 2015 an possibly even in 2014.

In addition to these fairly intense and regular email exchanges, there 
has been a physical meeting during the ICANN Buenos Aires meeting on 22 
June 2015 between the GAC Leadership and the Co-Chairs of the GNSO 
curative rights PDPD working group, GNSO support staff and Mason Cole, 
in order to mutually update each other about the work of the small group 
as well as the PDP WG. In addition to this, on 16 July 2015, some 
representatives of the IGO small group have met with Chris Disspain, 
myself and a number of ICANN staff in Paris at the OECD to continue 
informal work on the draft small group text.

Following this meeting, there have been many exchanges about different 
text proposals until the end of the year 2015 and then this has been 
continued in 2016.

**

*To sum up, the mails I found in my mailbox show the following: *

-The IGO ?small group? was formed following discussions with the NGPC 
after the Los Angeles meeting.

-The ?small group? was _not set up as a bilateral process to allow 
governments and IGOs to take undue influence on the board_, but rather 
to serve as a point of contact, representation and input for and from 
the IGOs with the NGPC/Board, GAC _and GNSO_.

-The support staff for the GNSO IGO PDPs (usually Mary plus occasionally 
some other staff members) was included in more or less all electronic 
communications throughout the whole period and did not only get involved 
recently.

-Mason Cole, the GNSO Liaison to the GAC, had also been receiving a 
portion of these mails and

-Jonathan Robinson (chair of the GNSO council at that time) had been 
copied into some emails from time to time

-there has been one physical meeting and some email updates to the PDP 
WG co-chairs

All this makes it very difficult for me to understand how the GNSO 
council as well as the IGO curative rights PDP co-chairs could have had 
no knowledge about what was going on in the small group over the period 
of 2014-2016.

What I can confirm based on my personal participation in the small 
group, however, is that none of the ICANN staff has had an active role 
in the informal ?discussions/negotiations?, but that they, including 
Mary, acted as supportive facilitators of the process and as bearers of 
messages and information. The informal ?discussions/negotiations? on the 
substance of the proposal had been led by Chris on the one side and by 
the representatives of OECD (Jonathan and Nicola) and WIPO (Brian) on 
the other side.

I would like to further repeat that the GAC and IGO reps participated in 
this informal ?small group? process in good faith, in the assumption 
that all relevant parties would through informal channels be included 
and consulted and in the hope that our work would have a chance to 
become a commonly shared basis for a compromise solution that could be 
accepted by al in the end.

And I would like to conclude by saying that I do sincerely hope that 
this contribution to transparency helps getting rid of some 
misunderstandings and false assertions in this issue and allows us ? the 
Board, the GAC and the GNSO ? to resume where we were thinking we would 
depart in late 2014: on a process to get together in good faith all of 
us trying to contribute together to finding a workable solution 
acceptable to all.

Best regards

Thomas

P.S.

For those who would like to see the mails: whoever was part of the small 
group or recipient of these messages can easily search his mailbox for 
kewords like ?IGO? or names of people that he/she only worked with on 
this issue. (This is how I found these mails.)

For the others: I can also show the whole list of emails to anyone who 
does like to see them.

*Von:*Mary Wong [mailto:mary.wong at icann.org]
*Gesendet:* Freitag, 24. April 2015 23:05
*An:* Schneider Thomas BAKOM <Thomas.Schneider at bakom.admin.ch 
<mailto:Thomas.Schneider at bakom.admin.ch>>; Nicola.BONUCCI at oecd.org 
<mailto:Nicola.BONUCCI at oecd.org>
*Cc:* Jamie Hedlund <jamie.hedlund at icann.org 
<mailto:jamie.hedlund at icann.org>>; pozenel at un.org 
<mailto:pozenel at un.org>; nicoara at un.org <mailto:nicoara at un.org>; 
wiener at un.org <mailto:wiener at un.org>; ricardo.GUILHERME at upu.int 
<mailto:ricardo.GUILHERME at upu.int>; brian.beckham at wipo.int 
<mailto:brian.beckham at wipo.int>; erik.wilbers at wipo.int 
<mailto:erik.wilbers at wipo.int>; streijffertch at who.int 
<mailto:streijffertch at who.int>; sradell at ntia.doc.gov 
<mailto:sradell at ntia.doc.gov>; ceo at auda.org.au <mailto:ceo at auda.org.au>; 
Sam.PALTRIDGE at oecd.org <mailto:Sam.PALTRIDGE at oecd.org>; 
Alexandra.EXCOFFIER-NOSOV at oecd.org 
<mailto:Alexandra.EXCOFFIER-NOSOV at oecd.org>; Jonathan.PASSARO at oecd.org 
<mailto:Jonathan.PASSARO at oecd.org>; tom at acig.com.au 
<mailto:tom at acig.com.au>; Karine Perset <karine.perset at icann.org 
<mailto:karine.perset at icann.org>>
*Betreff:* Re: Request from IGO-INGO Curative Rights Working Group to 
the IGO "small group" (coalition)

Dear Thomas and everyone,

Thank you for your reply, which we on the ICANN staff appreciate 
especially as we know how much is on your and the GAC?s plate at the 
moment. I am hopeful that we can make good progress on the ongoing 
discussions regarding IGO protections, and thank you, Suzanne and the 
IGO representatives for your continuing commitment to this dialogue.

The IGO ?small group? was formed following discussions with the NGPC at 
the ICANN meeting in Los Angeles in October 2014, to serve as a point of 
contact, representation and input for and from the IGOs with the 
NGPC/Board, GAC and GNSO. I believe that most, if not all, of the IGOs 
that comprise the ?small group? are represented in this email thread.

Beyond being the primary contacts for IGOs in respect of resolving the 
question of IGO protections in the New gTLD Program, both preventative 
and curative, the ?small group? has been very helpful to the GNSO?s 
ongoing PDP Working Group that is exploring the specific, more limited, 
question of whether existing curative dispute resolution processes 
sufficiently address the particular needs and concerns of these 
organizations or if changes are required. As noted in previous emails, 
the Working Group has reached out to the GAC as well as the ?small 
group? to ensure that it understands fully all the relevant public 
policy concerns and has the necessary data and research to enable it to 
reach conclusions that are workable and in line with the governing 
public international law framework.

ICANN staff ? including Jamie Hedlund (cc?d on this email), Karine and 
me, among others ? will be happy to assist in whatever way we can to 
further the dialogue on both the preventative and curative rights 
protection questions. Please do not hesitate to let any of us know how 
we may be helpful, or if you have additional questions, at any time.

With best regards,

Mary

Mary Wong

Senior Policy Director

Internet Corporation for Assigned Names & Numbers (ICANN)

Telephone: +1 603 574 4892

Email: mary.wong at icann.org <mailto:mary.wong at icann.org>

*From: *<Thomas.Schneider at bakom.admin.ch 
<mailto:Thomas.Schneider at bakom.admin.ch>>
*Date: *Thursday, April 23, 2015 at 20:52
*To: *Mary Wong <mary.wong at icann.org <mailto:mary.wong at icann.org>>, 
<Nicola.BONUCCI at oecd.org <mailto:Nicola.BONUCCI at oecd.org>>
*Cc: *<jamie.hedlund at icann.org <mailto:jamie.hedlund at icann.org>>, 
<pozenel at un.org <mailto:pozenel at un.org>>, <nicoara at un.org 
<mailto:nicoara at un.org>>, <wiener at un.org <mailto:wiener at un.org>>, 
<ricardo.GUILHERME at upu.int <mailto:ricardo.GUILHERME at upu.int>>, 
<brian.beckham at wipo.int <mailto:brian.beckham at wipo.int>>, 
<erik.wilbers at wipo.int <mailto:erik.wilbers at wipo.int>>, 
<streijffertch at who.int <mailto:streijffertch at who.int>>, 
<sradell at ntia.doc.gov <mailto:sradell at ntia.doc.gov>>, <ceo at auda.org.au 
<mailto:ceo at auda.org.au>>, <Sam.PALTRIDGE at oecd.org 
<mailto:Sam.PALTRIDGE at oecd.org>>, <Alexandra.EXCOFFIER-NOSOV at oecd.org 
<mailto:Alexandra.EXCOFFIER-NOSOV at oecd.org>>, <Jonathan.PASSARO at oecd.org 
<mailto:Jonathan.PASSARO at oecd.org>>, <tom at acig.com.au 
<mailto:tom at acig.com.au>>, <karine.perset at icann.org 
<mailto:karine.perset at icann.org>>
*Subject: *Re: Request from IGO-INGO Curative Rights Working Group to 
the IGO "small group" (coalition)

    Dear Mary and all

    Thank you for your message of 15 April and your commitment to move
    these complex issues forward.

    As you make a reference to the IGO ?small group?, where some GAC
    representatives (including myself) are supposed to contribute to
    making things progress, I am trying to seek clarification about what
    exactly the process (activities, membership, timeline) of this small
    group is.

    The GAC (including myself personally) is willing to actively
    contribute to bringing this issue to a close in a way that will be
    satisfactory to all concerned and is ready to participate in and
    contribute to the ?small group? work. As they will help us with
    this, I would like to ask you to also keep Tom Dale from the GAC
    secretariat (ACIG) and Karine Perset from ICANN GAC-support staff in
    the loop of all further communications.

    Thank you and best regards

    Thomas

    Thomas Schneider

    Chair

    ICANN Governmental Advisory Committee (GAC)

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