[PC-NCSG] [Gnso-ncph-leadership] NCPH v-chair election - just what we all have time for
Avri Doria
avri
Mon Aug 10 16:25:09 EEST 2015
Hi,
They refused to honor it and it became an ombudsman issue. We then
agreed to let them keep the seat for another year and put in David as an
anodyne candidate the year after.
BTW, have you all been discussing the chair candidacy? Will we have a
reasonable candidate to propose?
avri
On 10-Aug-15 05:17, Amr Elsadr wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I haven?t been paying attention to council VC elections long enough to realise we had a problem in the past. I?m assuming that the last time that did not work and what they did with Wendy?s nomination are the same thing. Could someone please fill me in?
>
> If they give us trouble with rotation of nominations, maybe we can try to only agree to this if certain conditions are also committed to by both SGs. Conditions that may mitigate whatever difficulties we have experienced in the past?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Amr
>
>> On Aug 10, 2015, at 4:04 AM, Avri Doria <avri at ACM.ORG> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I do not recommend alternation. Did not work last time and I do not see
>> what has changed to make it work this time.
>> Remember what they did to Wendy when we tried to have her stand in an
>> alternative year.
>>
>> avri
>>
>>
>> On 09-Aug-15 21:24, Rafik Dammak wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I understand that we are trying to figure out how election dynamics
>>> (maybe we are dealing with arrow impossibility theorem
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow%27s_impossibility_theorem ?) will
>>> work here but remember :
>>> "The CSG Executive Committee also wished to convey that while we are
>>> prepared to accept this approach for this year, our proposal form last
>>> January remains on the table in order to provide a permanent solution
>>> through rotation of nominations"
>>>
>>> they are proposing rotation for future elections after this year one.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Rafik
>>>
>>> 2015-08-07 9:53 GMT+09:00 Avri Doria <avri at acm.org <mailto:avri at acm.org>>:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Think about it mathematically, you will see that picking preferences
>>> does not necessarily eliminate the most despised. I argue that the
>>> reason we can never achieve agreement with our sisters in CSG is
>>> that we
>>> pick our favorite, who may their most hated, and they pick their
>>> favorite who may our most hated, and then we run the two most hated
>>> against each other. and then are oh so surprised when we cannot reach
>>> agreement.
>>>
>>> So lets get rid of the non starters from the start.
>>>
>>> avri
>>>
>>> On 06-Aug-15 10:25, Sam Lanfranco wrote:
>>>> Avri,
>>>>
>>>> I agree with rejecting the "totally unacceptable" but I don't
>>> see how
>>>> a vote on preferences
>>>> would fail to boot that candidate off the list. The top of the
>>> "don't
>>>> like" vote should be the
>>>> bottom of the "like vote", or am I missing something other than a
>>>> chance to whack a bad
>>>> candidate before going on to select a good one.
>>>>
>>>> Sam
>>>>
>>>> On 06/08/2015 7:09 AM, Avri Doria wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the amendment is unfortunate as id does not really
>>> consider the
>>>>> proposal that was offered and the advantage of everyone first
>>> voicing
>>>>> the candidate that would be totally unacceptable - the elephant
>>> that is
>>>>> always in the room with us.
>>>>>
>>>>> But since we operate by rough consensus, my opposition should
>>> not be
>>>>> significant.
>>>>>
>>>>> avri
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 06-Aug-15 04:25, Rafik Dammak wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>> so I can assume that we are ok with small amendment proposed
>>> by CSG?
>>>>>> looking to hear from other so I can respond to Steve.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rafik
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2015-07-26 6:10 GMT+09:00 Joy Liddicoat
>>> <joy at liddicoatlaw.co.nz <mailto:joy at liddicoatlaw.co.nz>
>>>>>> <mailto:joy at liddicoatlaw.co.nz <mailto:joy at liddicoatlaw.co.nz>>>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi ? I also agree
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:*PC-NCSG [mailto:pc-ncsg-bounces at ipjustice.org
>>> <mailto:pc-ncsg-bounces at ipjustice.org>
>>>>>> <mailto:pc-ncsg-bounces at ipjustice.org
>>> <mailto:pc-ncsg-bounces at ipjustice.org>>] *On Behalf Of *Marilia
>>>>>> Maciel
>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, 24 July 2015 12:21 a.m.
>>>>>> *To:* Rafik Dammak
>>>>>> *Cc:* NCSG-Policy
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [PC-NCSG] [Gnso-ncph-leadership] NCPH v-chair
>>>>>> election - just what we all have time for
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also agree.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mar?lia
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 7:48 AM, Rafik Dammak
>>>>>> <rafik.dammak at gmail.com <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com>
>>> <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> it sounds a fair request, CSG conducted such interviews for
>>>>>> candidates for previous elections.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> @everyone is there any objection or suggestion? we should
>>> respond
>>>>>> soon ,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rafik
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2015-07-19 22:55 GMT+09:00 Stephanie Perrin
>>>>>> <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
>>> <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>
>>>>>> <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
>>> <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>>>:
>>>>>> sounds reasonable to me...but I am perhaps not suffficiently
>>>>>> exercise on this issue.
>>>>>> cheers SP
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2015-07-19 9:21, Amr Elsadr wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also fine by me. Perhaps also formalise the option to
>>> interview
>>>>>> the candidate? If I recall correctly, they held a call
>>> with David
>>>>>> prior to agreeing to him as a VC. This is only a
>>> suggestion. It
>>>>>> may (or may not) come in handy at some point.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Amr
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jul 19, 2015, at 12:17 PM, William Drake
>>> <wjdrake at gmail.com <mailto:wjdrake at gmail.com>
>>>>>> <mailto:wjdrake at gmail.com <mailto:wjdrake at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fine by me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BD
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jul 19, 2015, at 10:37 AM, Rafik Dammak
>>> <rafik.dammak at gmail.com <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com>
>>>>>> <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You will found below the comments from CSG to Avri
>>>>>> counter-proposal regarding VC chair process. they will
>>> accept it
>>>>>> and offering an amendment.
>>>>>> can you please review so we can move forward with this
>>> issue. the
>>>>>> VC chair election is coming soon.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rafik
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>>> From: Metalitz, Steven <met at msk.com <mailto:met at msk.com>
>>> <mailto:met at msk.com <mailto:met at msk.com>>>
>>>>>> Date: 2015-07-14 7:54 GMT+09:00
>>>>>> Subject: RE: FW: [Gnso-ncph-leadership] NCPH v-chair
>>> election -
>>>>>> just what we all have time for
>>>>>> To: Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com>
>>>>>> <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Rafik,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This was discussed by the CSG Executive Committee last
>>>>>> week, and
>>>>>> we are prepared to accept the counter-proposal with one
>>> change.
>>>>>> We did not understand why the first round was structured as a
>>>>>> ?vote against round, i.e., a voting procedure where
>>> everyone votes
>>>>>> for the candidate they would like to see least in the
>>> role.? We
>>>>>> think the same objective could be achieved by a conventional
>>>>>> voting procedure, with the top two (or more in case of a
>>> tie) vote
>>>>>> getters proceeding to the second round.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With that change we are prepared to move toward
>>> setting a
>>>>>> schedule
>>>>>> for the vice chair election (i.e., a deadline for
>>> nominations,
>>>>>> acceptances, and scheduling of the rounds). Please let me
>>> know if
>>>>>> NCSG will accept this relatively minor change so we can
>>> move to
>>>>>> the next step
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The CSG Executive Committee also wished to convey that
>>>>>> while we
>>>>>> are prepared to accept this approach for this year, our
>>> proposal
>>>>>> form last January remains on the table in order to provide a
>>>>>> permanent solution through rotation of nominations.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Looking forward to your response.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steve Metalitz
>>>>>>
>>>>>> .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Rafik Dammak [mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com>
>>>>>> <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:rafik.dammak at gmail.com>>]
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 10:55 PM
>>>>>> To: Metalitz, Steven
>>>>>> Subject: Re: FW: [Gnso-ncph-leadership] NCPH v-chair
>>> election -
>>>>>> just what we all have time for
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Steve,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks for the email, yes it can be considered as a
>>>>>> counter-proposal to be discussed. definitely we have to solve
>>>>>> before the coming soon VC election.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rafik
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2015-07-07 2:14 GMT+09:00 Metalitz, Steven
>>> <met at msk.com <mailto:met at msk.com>
>>>>>> <mailto:met at msk.com <mailto:met at msk.com>>>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Rafik,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope this finds you well and fully recovered from
>>>>>> travel to
>>>>>> Buenos Aires.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As you may recall, NCSG participants in in the January
>>>>>> intersessional in Washington committed to providing a
>>>>>> counter-proposal by the end of the Singapore meeting to
>>> the CSG
>>>>>> proposal on election procedures going forward for the
>>> vice chair
>>>>>> slot. The rest of the CSG leadership asked me to check
>>> with you
>>>>>> on whether Avri?s text at the link below is in fact the
>>>>>> counter-proposal from NCSG, and if not, when we could
>>> expect to
>>>>>> receive one. Thanks!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steve Metalitz , for CSG Executive Committee
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: gnso-ncph-leadership-bounces at icann.org
>>> <mailto:gnso-ncph-leadership-bounces at icann.org>
>>>>>> <mailto:gnso-ncph-leadership-bounces at icann.org
>>> <mailto:gnso-ncph-leadership-bounces at icann.org>>
>>>>>> [mailto:gnso-ncph-leadership-bounces at icann.org
>>> <mailto:gnso-ncph-leadership-bounces at icann.org>
>>>>>> <mailto:gnso-ncph-leadership-bounces at icann.org
>>> <mailto:gnso-ncph-leadership-bounces at icann.org>>] On Behalf Of Avri
>>>>>> Doria
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 7:42 AM
>>>>>> To: gnso-ncph-leadership at icann.org
>>> <mailto:gnso-ncph-leadership at icann.org>
>>>>>> <mailto:gnso-ncph-leadership at icann.org
>>> <mailto:gnso-ncph-leadership at icann.org>>
>>>>>> Subject: [Gnso-ncph-leadership] NCPH v-chair election -
>>> just what
>>>>>> we all have time for
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sometime in February, I created this first version of a
>>> simple
>>>>>> procedure
>>>>>> for NCPH election of a v-chair. I gave this to Rafik and
>>> David.
>>>>>> David
>>>>>> was unhappy with it, and then I got distracted and
>>> further work
>>>>>> just
>>>>>> stalled.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So here we are, one meeting away from needing to elect a new
>>>>>> v-chair.
>>>>>> While knowing that no one but me thinks this is a
>>> possible way
>>>>>> to go,
>>>>>> here it is to beat on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zpkznZGutvze0hI4BLePoaZWoqLWhioq-tjwVKCiyqs/edit?usp=sharing>
>>>>>> The doc is open for comments and suggested changes by anyone
>>>>>> with the
>>>>>> URL. At the moment Rakif, David and I am the only
>>> editors, but
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> than happy to add SG/C others, all you need to do is let me
>>>>>> know what
>>>>>> email/login you use for editing drive docs. The editors would
>>>>>> be the
>>>>>> ones to accept the changes - I don't want to presume to
>>> do so -
>>>>>> except
>>>>>> of course for typos, which I will gladly accept. Note,
>>> however,
>>>>>> you do
>>>>>> not need to have edit priviledge to suggest changes, and I
>>>>>> recommend
>>>>>> that even those with editor priviledge use suggest mode
>>> to suggest
>>>>>> changes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> avri
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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