[PC-NCSG] Fwd: Vice Chair Position
Avri Doria
avri
Thu Jan 10 22:56:20 EET 2013
The crux of the matter is:
so far
did we do 1 rotation?
or 2 rotations?
I think we did 2 demi-rotations = 1 rotation and we have yet another rotation to go.
I also beleive that the CSG is being sneaky, redefining what a rotation means, and is backing out on yet another agreement.
avri
On 10 Jan 2013, at 15:47, Robin Gross wrote:
> fyi
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>> From: Chris LaHatte <chris.lahatte at icann.org>
>> Date: January 8, 2013 7:24:12 PM PST
>> To: "Metalitz, Steven" <met at msk.com>, "'tonyarholmes at btinternet.com'" <tonyarholmes at btinternet.com>, "'marilynscade at hotmail.com'" <marilynscade at hotmail.com>, "'Rosette, Kristina'" <krosette at cov.com>
>> Cc: "'Robin Gross (robin at ipjustice.org)'" <robin at ipjustice.org>, "'Avri Doria (avri at acm.org)'" <avri at acm.org>, "'Wendy Seltzer (wendy at seltzer.com)'" <wendy at seltzer.com>
>> Subject: RE: Vice Chair Position
>>
>> Dear Steve
>>
>> Thank you for the reply and I am grateful that this has been raised. As I see this issue, you have responded by saying the sharing of the Vice Chair Position was to be revisited, with review after one rotation. The review did not happen however. I am not sure if the NCSG thought that this review was needed before the rotation however. It may be useful to have comment on that aspect.
>>
>> But we are in a position where the options are (not in any order of priority):-
>>
>> 1 Accept the arrangement to rotate, and let NCSG candidate, Wendy Seltzer, be put forward
>> 2 Review the rotation after the election to see if is still appropriate to continue
>> 3 Have an election between Wendy Seltzer and Brian Winterfeldt as to who will be put forward, and no longer use the rotation
>>
>> The rotation does appear to be an arrangement which gives each Stakeholder Group the ability to place a member as Vice Chair in alternate terms, spreading the interests and enabling equal shares in decision making. The Vice Chair is however still a member of a committee and does not have special power to overrule the others, but is just another voice, albeit with some ability to set an agenda and control a meeting when the vice chair is acting as the chair.
>>
>> We could set up telephone discussion-I am available at any time.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>> Chris LaHatte
>> Ombudsman
>> Blog https://omblog.icann.org/
>> Facebook http://www.facebook.com/ICANNOmbudsman
>> Webpage http://www.icann.org/en/help/ombudsman
>>
>>
>> Confidentiality
>> All matters brought before the Ombudsman shall be treated as confidential. The Ombudsman shall also take all reasonable steps necessary to preserve the privacy of, and to avoid harm to, those parties not involved in the complaint being investigated by the Ombudsman.The Ombudsman shall only make inquiries about, or advise staff or Board members of the existence and identity of, a complainant in order to further the resolution of the complaint. The Ombudsman shall take all reasonable steps necessary to ensure that if staff and Board members are made aware of the existence and identity of a complainant, they agree to maintain the confidential nature of such information, except as necessary to further the resolution of a complaint
>>
>> From: Metalitz, Steven [mailto:met at msk.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 3:42 PM
>> To: Chris LaHatte; 'tonyarholmes at btinternet.com'; 'marilynscade at hotmail.com'; 'Rosette, Kristina'
>> Cc: 'Robin Gross (robin at ipjustice.org)'; 'Avri Doria (avri at acm.org)'; 'Wendy Seltzer (wendy at seltzer.com)'
>> Subject: RE: Vice Chair Position
>>
>> Hello Chris,
>>
>> I hope 2013 is off to a good start for you.
>>
>> Knowing how matters can slip off the table over the holidays, I wanted to make sure that you (and the addressees and cc?s) had received the message below. We are interested in knowing the response to our proposal. I?d welcome any suggestions you have for bringing this matter to resolution. Thanks!
>>
>> Steve Metalitz
>> From: Metalitz, Steven
>> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 4:05 PM
>> To: 'Chris LaHatte'; tonyarholmes at btinternet.com; marilynscade at hotmail.com; 'Rosette, Kristina'
>> Cc: Robin Gross (robin at ipjustice.org); Avri Doria (avri at acm.org); Wendy Seltzer (wendy at seltzer.com)
>> Subject: RE: Vice Chair Position
>>
>> Dear Chris,
>>
>> I am responding to your message of Dec. 18 on behalf of the Commercial Stakeholder Group executive committee. I apologize for the delay in responding due to the impending holiday season in the US.
>>
>> CSG would be pleased to have your assistance in mediating this dispute.
>>
>> We believe the summary in your Dec. 18 message requires some modification. The ?turn and turn about? arrangement for nominating the GNSO Vice Chair from the Non-Contracted Parties House was reached at the end of 2010, and was explicitly made subject to a review after one rotation, i.e., in the run-up to the selection of a Vice Chair to begin service after the ICANN Annual Meeting in October 2012. This is all documented in the e-mail chain pasted below.
>>
>> That review did not occur. Instead, each SG nominated a candidate. The Commercial Stakeholder Group nominated Brian Winterfeldt. The Non-Commercial Stakeholder Group nominated Wendy Seltzer. No election has yet been held. (Wolf-Ulrich Knoben has graciously agreed to continue as Vice Chair on an interim basis even though his term has formally expired.)
>>
>> Our preference is that an election now be held between these two nominees, Brian and Wendy, to select the Vice Chair. There would be 13 voters in this election (the 6 GNSO councilors from CSG, the 6 GNSO councilors from NCSG, and the Nom Comm assignee to the NCPH), and a simple majority of 7 votes would be required for election. We think this would accurately reflect that the ?turn and turn about? arrangement has expired after two turns.
>>
>> We appreciate that the agreement between the SGs in 2010 did not address the circumstance in which the contemplated review of the arrangement had not occurred. We note that, if the arrangement were to be extended for another cycle, NCSG would have the preferential option to nominate a candidate this time, but that candidate would not be elected unless he or she obtained affirmative votes from 8 of the 13 electors.
>>
>> Finally, however the matter is resolved, we believe it would be essential to schedule a call in which the candidate or candidates would present their qualifications and plans to both stakeholder groups (and to the Nom Comm assignee), and would respond to questions, prior to a vote.
>>
>> Thank you again for your offer to mediate. Please let me know if we can provide further information or views, or otherwise expedite a fair resolution.
>>
>> Steve Metalitz, Vice President of IPC, on behalf of CSG Executive Committee
>>
>> Cc: Tony Holmes, ISPC chair
>>
>> Kristina Rosette, IPC President
>>
>> Marilyn Cade, BC chair
>>
>> E-mail correspondence re Vice Chair selection process
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Metalitz, Steven
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 7:14 AM
>> To: 'Robin Gross'
>> Cc: Tony Holmes; Marilyn Cade
>> Subject: RE: Election of GNSO council vice chair
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks Robin. Per the agreement confirmed last January, we will review the process prior to the next election.
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve Metalitz
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Robin Gross [mailto:robin at ipjustice.org]
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 5:49 AM
>> To: Metalitz, Steven
>> Cc: Tony Holmes; Marilyn Cade
>> Subject: Re: Election of GNSO council vice chair
>>
>> Thank you for getting back to me, Steve. Since CSG would like to stick to the yearly rotation, we will support Wolf for VC, and then next year's VC will come from the NCSG, as we agreed.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks again,
>>
>> Robin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 24, 2011, at 3:34 PM, Metalitz, Steven wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Robin,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for your note. We have considered this option but on balance we would like to keep to the agreement struck last year. Wolf is our CSG candidate and we think he should go through the election process as agreed. We believe he will do a good job for all parts of our non-contracted party house. I know he has reached out to the non-commercial side and will continue to do so. We also think Mary, who is clearly an asset to the entire council, has much to contribute in other important roles. Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve Metalitz
>>
>> for the CSG Executive Committee
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Robin Gross [mailto:robin at ipjustice.org]
>> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 10:21 AM
>> To: Metalitz, Steven
>> Subject: Re: Election of GNSO council vice chair
>>
>> Hello Steve,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the email. Given the dominance the contracted parties have historically had in the GNSO, and the need for the NCPH to help set the agenda in the GNSO, I'm sure you agree that it is most important to both our SG's that we have a VC who will be an effective advocate for the entire NCPH. Considering the excellent job Mary has done for the entire NCPH in this last year, would the CSG be willing to consider allowing her to stand for a 2nd term VC?
>>
>>
>>
>> I should note that we would be equally willing to consider supporting extending the term of a really good CSG councilor, in a subsequent year.
>>
>>
>>
>> I think it is in both our SG's interest to have the best VC that the NCPH can produce (from either SG), so I don't want us to get too bogged down in CSG candidate v. NCSG candidate thinking. Rather, let's think about what will best advance the interests of the entire NCPH, and a 2nd-year VC, when we've got an excellent advocate for both our SG's, will serve us both well (and the entire GNSO Council).
>>
>>
>>
>> What do you think? Can CSG consider Mary for a 2nd term? Next year we can return to the rotation and CSG can put forth a VC.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you again,
>>
>> Robin
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 23, 2011, at 7:25 PM, Metalitz, Steven wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Robin,
>> At the time that our Non-Contracted Parties House last selected a vice Chair of the GNSO Council, the NCSG proposed, and the CSG agreed, that at the next election, the SG whose candidate did not prevail would have the preferential option to nominate a candidate for vice chair. That nominee would undergo a vote (nominated candidate v. none of above) and, if the candidate received 8 or more votes, would be elected. If not, then the same process as used last time would be followed (nominations from both SGs, one or more round of voting, etc.). Please see below e-mail chain setting forth this agreement.
>>
>> In accordance with this, on behalf of the CSG executive committee, let me confirm that we have nominated Wolf-Ulrich Knoben as Vice Chair. May I suggest that you work with Marilyn Cade or Tony Holmes, who are onsite in Dakar, to arrange either for a meeting place, or for an e-mail ballot administered by the GNSO secretariat, in order to conduct an election between Wolf and none of the above before the GNSO council meeting on Wednesday.
>>
>> Thanks, and please let me know if any questions.
>>
>> Steve Metalitz
>> For CSG Executive Committee
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri at acm.org]
>> Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 10:42 AM
>> To: Metalitz, Steven; Glen de Saint Gery
>> Subject: Re: Council vice chair was RE: [] Updated GNSO Council agenda for 13 January
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Just confirming there was no objection in the NCSG Policy committee to the CSG caveat.
>>
>> Glen: Please proceed with the vote at your convenience.
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> a.
>>
>> On 30 Dec 2010, at 10:03, Avri Doria wrote:
>>
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > Steve, thanks for the reply. I do not expect there will be any problem accepting the CSG caveat, just want to give the NCSG Policy group a day to review it.
>>
>> >
>> > Glen, I think planning on sending out the ballots on Monday, or whenever works out for you after that, should be fine.
>>
>> >
>> > I will get back to you both, should there be any issue.
>> >
>> > Thanks to you both and wishes for a great 2011.
>> >
>> > a.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 30 Dec 2010, at 09:35, Metalitz, Steven wrote:
>> >
>> >> Avri,
>> >>
>> >> The process you propose below now has the support of all of CSG, with the caveat that we review the process after two iterations (i.e., before the election for the term beginning after the last ICANN meeting in 2012).
>>
>> >>
>> >> By copy to Glen, and subject to Avri's confirmation on behalf of NCSG, I ask her to distribute ballots to the 13 council representatives from the CSG, NCSG, and NCA (Olga), to choose between the following candidates for vice chair:
>>
>> >>
>> >> Wolf-Ulrich Knoben (CSG)
>> >> Mary Wong (NCSG)
>> >>
>> >> I believe 7 calendar days would be an adequate time frame for ballots to be returned to Glen. If either candidate gets 8 votes, then that candidate is the winner. If not, the leader runs against none of the above in a second round. So if we do not have vice chair in place by the time of the 1/13 council meeting, we will be well on our way to doing so.
>>
>> >>
>> >> Thanks to all for patience as we worked this through.
>> >>
>> >> And best wishes to all for a happy new year!
>> >>
>> >> Steve
>> >> From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri at acm.org]
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 2:22 PM
>> >> To: Metalitz, Steven; Olga Cavalli
>> >> Subject: Fwd: [] Updated GNSO Council agenda for 13 January
>> >>
>> >> Hi,,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Begin forwarded message:
>> >>
>> >>> 9.1 Status of Vice Chair elections in the Non Contracted Party House.
>> >>
>> >> Hi,
>> >>
>> >> Where are we at?
>> >>
>> >> I know we agreed that Olga serves interim, and I think that is great.
>> >>
>> >> Is there any feedback on the NCSG suggestion that we just elect following the general practice that was used for the Chair election?
>>
>> >>
>> >> I repeat it below.
>> >>
>> >> thanks
>> >> a.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri at acm.org]
>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 6:15 PM
>> >>> To: Metalitz, Steven
>> >>> Cc: Marilyn Cade; Olga Cavalli; Holmes Tony
>> >>> Subject: Re: update from the CSG side about progression toward
>> >>> election process for V.Chair/House
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi,
>> >>>
>> >>> We certainly accept Olga remaining while we figure this out, which I
>> >>> hope is soon, really soon.
>> >>>
>> >>> Yes, our candidate is Mary.
>> >>>
>> >>> I would like to counter propose.
>> >>>
>> >>> We follow the GCOT defined process for the chair. it is, in
>> >>> diplomatic speak, agreed language and would allow us to be done with it.
>> >>>
>> >>> That means
>> >>>
>> >>> 1 candidate from each SG
>> >>>
>> >>> a. need 8 votes to win
>> >>> b. if no one gets 8, person in the lead runs against none of the
>> >>> above
>> >>>
>> >>> - From now on, we alternate with the SG who did not pick the
>> >>> successful candidate, picking the v-chair candidate. They can pick
>> >>> the person who is currently in the v-chair (assuming they are doing
>> >>> a good job, and are really neutral), someone from their group, or
>> >>> the NCA (don't assume they would pick someone from the other group
>> >>> who wasn't already v-chair but they could)
>> >>>
>> >>> This person would still have to endure a vote:
>> >>>
>> >>> - chosen candidate vs. none of the above
>> >>>
>> >>> Takes 8 to win.
>> >>>
>> >>> I/we hate the idea of having to do this again, so I am hoping we can
>> >>> find a way to just finalize this and move on. especially since we
>> >>> have Olga filling the spot while we discuss this, the hurry probably
>> >>> isn't as great.
>> >>>
>> >>> We accept that this does not prejudice the Board seat election,
>> >>> though must say that the NCSG generally accepts staying with
>> >>> accepted language, i.e. the same process as is already accepted for the chair.
>> >>>
>> >>> a.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> IP JUSTICE
>>
>> Robin Gross, Executive Director
>>
>> 1192 Haight Street, San Francisco, CA 94117 USA
>>
>> p: +1-415-553-6261 f: +1-415-462-6451
>>
>> w: http://www.ipjustice.org e: robin at ipjustice.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Chris LaHatte [mailto:chris.lahatte at icann.org]
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 8:01 PM
>> To: Metalitz, Steven; tonyarholmes at btinternet.com; marilynscade at hotmail.com
>> Cc: Robin Gross (robin at ipjustice.org); Avri Doria (avri at acm.org); Wendy Seltzer (wendy at seltzer.com)
>> Subject: Vice Chair Position
>>
>> Dear people
>>
>> I have been asked by the Policy Committee of the NCSG to discuss the issue of nomination of the vice-chair from the non-contracted parties house for the GNSO. I was specifically asked to see if I could mediate a solution, rather than an ombudsman investigation, because the NCSG values the working relationship, and does not want a more formal approach. So my first query is whether you are happy to mediate a solution to the issue, of why the turn for NCSG to put forward Wendy Seltzer as the nominee, has not been accepted. As I understand this, there has been an agreement, by an email exchange, between NCSG and CSG, that the nomination for vice-chair would be shared year and year about. However this has not been the case with the current nomination from NCSG for Wendy. The first question is whether this is just an oversight, or whether you do not agree that she should be nominated. If the latter, then I am available to mediate a solution, if that is the course which will resolve the issue, and if you accept mediation, I can set this up.
>>
>> Can you please let me know your thoughts?
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>> Chris LaHatte
>> Ombudsman
>> Blog https://omblog.icann.org/
>> Facebook http://www.facebook.com/ICANNOmbudsman
>> Webpage http://www.icann.org/en/help/ombudsman
>>
>>
>> Confidentiality
>> All matters brought before the Ombudsman shall be treated as confidential. The Ombudsman shall also take all reasonable steps necessary to preserve the privacy of, and to avoid harm to, those parties not involved in the complaint being investigated by the Ombudsman.The Ombudsman shall only make inquiries about, or advise staff or Board members of the existence and identity of, a complainant in order to further the resolution of the complaint. The Ombudsman shall take all reasonable steps necessary to ensure that if staff and Board members are made aware of the existence and identity of a complainant, they agree to maintain the confidential nature of such information, except as necessary to further the resolution of a complaint
>>
>
>
>
>
> IP JUSTICE
> Robin Gross, Executive Director
> 1192 Haight Street, San Francisco, CA 94117 USA
> p: +1-415-553-6261 f: +1-415-462-6451
> w: http://www.ipjustice.org e: robin at ipjustice.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> PC-NCSG mailing list
> PC-NCSG at ipjustice.org
> http://mailman.ipjustice.org/listinfo/pc-ncsg
More information about the NCSG-PC
mailing list