[NCSG-FC] Fwd: [NCSG-Discuss] Opening an account for NPOC, NCUC and NCSG in Estonia

thatomfikwe thatomfikwe at gmail.com
Mon Jan 7 18:18:29 EET 2019

Just a small comment,
Currently working on how to best address the urgent ABR issue, the plan is to create a template with a brief background for members to submit their ideas or/and facilitate a meeting where priorities will be tabled and adopted before submission by constituencies, members, leaders and committees of NCSG.
I take cognisance of the problems that come with opening and account but what does this mean interms of the NCSG charter that clearly states that NCSG must have its accout? Not against any suggestion just need to understand implications of alternative decisions.
Regarding small amounts of money in NCSG name, does it mean we wait for finances to reach a certain level before we consider an account, if so what is that level?
NCSG cannot continue to dig into members pockets to manage expenses so findrasing plan is vital and ABR, PIR and annual budgets are one way, there are other ways like external sponsors and funders.
I some how feel that there might be interelation between ability to fundraise and existence of an account. Funders, atleast external and potentials might not be  comfortable with funding a structure that doesnt have its own accounts in my view.
Still bearing in mind that fundraising is underpinned by priorities, activities and plans.

Thato Mfikwe.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.-------- Original message --------From: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> Date: 07/01/2019  17:02  (GMT+02:00) To: ncsg-fc at lists.ncsg.is Subject: Re: [NCSG-FC] Fwd: [NCSG-Discuss] Opening an account for NPOC, NCUC and NCSG in Estonia 

I don't think we need a separate meeting for this.  Lets just discuss at the next FC meeting.   Peraonlly, as I have said before, I want members to focus on the Legal implications of creating these entities.  Folks
 who are busy fighting in the trenches on the policy side (and I count myself one of them) encounter a lot of pushback and animosity at ICANN.  Creating an entity exposes us, however theoretically, to litigation.  Think this through thoroughly before creating
 a target please.  We have so little money, and so few prospects of getting more, that I really don't see the point to incorporating/forming a legal entity at the moment.  And as I tried to point out on the list....at the moment I have the most money invested
 in our processes (2430 US to be precise, which I am sure will be repaid eventually, even if I have to eat the currency exchange and transfer fees).
More to the point would be to focus on the ABRs, in my opinion.


On 2019-01-07 06:34, thatomfikwe wrote:

Hi Remmy and all,

I saw the email discussion around bank accounts. I do not have a problem with the suggestions because opening of an account will make the FC activities simple to coordinate and enhance transperency on financial activities IMO.

Do you think we need to hold a meeting around this? I think we just need to reach consensus and maybe the proposed meeting will be around how we move forward with this idea of opening an account.

Bare in mind that this suggestion also has financial implications so we need to also see how we can do this without exerting financial pressure on members.

I have never heard of e-citizenship before so this is still foreign to me but am willing to support this direction, thanks.

Thato Mfikwe.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------
From: Remmy Nweke 
<remmyn at gmail.com> 
Date: 07/01/2019 10:57 (GMT+02:00) 
To: NCSG Finance Committee 
<ncsg-fc at lists.ncsg.is> 
Subject: [NCSG-FC] Fwd: [NCSG-Discuss] Opening an account for NPOC, NCUC and NCSG in Estonia

Hi Thato and colleagues,
I am sure we have seen this on the public list and as Stephanie suggested, FC need to discuss this extensively and advise appropriately.

Therefore, can we have meeting on this subject ASAP.


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---------- Forwarded message ---------

From: Raoul Plommer 
<plommer at gmail.com>

Date: Sun, Jan 6, 2019 at 12:25 AM

Subject: [NCSG-Discuss] Opening an account for NPOC, NCUC and NCSG in Estonia

To: <NCSG-DISCUSS at listserv.syr.edu>

Dear all,

I've tried unsuccesfully opening an account for NPOC here in Finland and what it really comes down to, are the restrictions of having account owners that are based in Finland and every time they would be changed, they'd have to come over to Finland to
 do so. The same goes for the NCUC's current account.

Now, I think we (me and Tapani) have found a solution to our problems and it is such that I will get a e-citizenship in Estonia, register the C's and the SG in Estonia and then open the bank account to each of them separately in person. We'll probably
 need another few people to take e-residencies as well, to share the responsibility and accountability of said accounts and the e-residency costs 100€ per person. https://apply.gov.ee/

None of our SG's organisational structure is officially recognised anywhere but inside ICANN - I think we should change that and register in a country that is actually a lot more lenient than Finland or USA, for example.


The most essential difference to most countries is that Estonia allows change of authorised users on bank accounts to people with e-residency ID, and this change can be done in any consulate of Estonia in the world.

All I would need, is the boat trip to Tallinn and back and one night in a local hotel. This would be less than 200€ in total.

200€ for e-residency for two people, per account, so 600€.

We'd also need to cover the costs of registering our organisations in Estonia, which will probably make things easier, and I think all three can be registered for less that 200€ in total.

So... We'd need about a thousand euros + 5 people wanting to put their names as the account holders. What do you guys think? If we discuss this further, I might actually get all the details together by Kobe.

I think it would be crucial to finally get our organisational infrastructure together and be able to change people as the account holders. Now the situation is really inflexible and reliant on a very few people with access to the accounts.

Once we register the organisations as not-for-profits, we could also finally get an government ID to start using Google's nonprofit benefits which are really quite numerous. Same goes for Dropbox for example, they give 30% discount.


P.S. While I was searching, I found this a record of the CSG having a nonprofit register in the USA. I found that somewhat surprising.

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