[NCSG-EC] [Ext] Re: Ageia Densi (Argentina)

Mon Jul 15 19:02:11 EEST 2024

In Civi, the group is listed as Ageia Densi (Argentina). Juan told me someone reached out to him whose group is already a member of NCSG and NCUC.

Thanks!
Kind Regards,
Andrea

From: "Jean F. Quéralt" <JFQueralt at theiofoundation.org>
Date: Monday, July 15, 2024 at 10:58
To: Andrea Glandon <andrea.glandon at icann.org>
Cc: Pedro de Perdigão Lana <pedrodeperdigaolana at gmail.com>, Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>, NCSG EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>
Subject: Re: [Ext] Re: [NCSG-EC] Ageia Densi (Argentina)

Hi.

Thx for the info @Andrea Glandon<mailto:andrea.glandon at icann.org>!

Can anyone confirm which ANGEIA DENSI is the one currently registered?

I don't have access to the CRM and I can't confirm it is the same organization that is registered in NCUC.
(I should assume it is yet a verification is due.)

My position is that even if a number of organizations are from the same network and share name by existing in different jurisdictions should request membership separately.
Again, nothing specific in this scenario that I can find.

Regards,
Jean F. Queralt
Founder & CEO - The IO Foundation [theiofoundation.org]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.TheIOFoundation.org__;!!PtGJab4!4z3iE88C4cyYz7x6LPdh4eJQXMU7yWZevwunpOP7RvpwOlEGAEl4O0JYrvB6AHNZUikrBWi99TWGNtM0gvVNcL-6YQq3a-GqQcKm$>
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On Mon, 15 Jul 2024 at 19:51, Andrea Glandon <andrea.glandon at icann.org<mailto:andrea.glandon at icann.org>> wrote:
Hello all,

This request came to me from Juan Manuel. Someone reached out to him. I do not have any further information. I told Juan I would find out what the procedure is to add them.

Kind Regards,
Andrea

From: "Jean F. Quéralt" <JFQueralt at theiofoundation.org<mailto:JFQueralt at theiofoundation.org>>
Date: Sunday, July 14, 2024 at 10:59
To: Pedro de Perdigão Lana <pedrodeperdigaolana at gmail.com<mailto:pedrodeperdigaolana at gmail.com>>, Andrea Glandon <andrea.glandon at icann.org<mailto:andrea.glandon at icann.org>>
Cc: Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com<mailto:muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>>, NCSG EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>>
Subject: [Ext] Re: [NCSG-EC] Ageia Densi (Argentina)

Yes, that makes a lot of sense.

I don't have access to the CRM.
@Andrea Glandon<mailto:andrea.glandon at icann.org> could you give is some extra information on the source of the inquiry/request?
Thx.

Regards,
Jean

On Sun, Jul 14, 2024, 23:49 Pedro de Perdigão Lana <pedrodeperdigaolana at gmail.com<mailto:pedrodeperdigaolana at gmail.com>> wrote:
Thanks for your answers, Jean!

My doubt was actually if it was the same organization (that is already part of NCUC/NCSG) asking to be a part of NPOC.

I'm saying this because in LACRALO there are two different ALS, Ageia Densi Argentina and Ageia Densi Brazil, while you can find other manifestations that seem to refer to Ageia Densi as an international org with Argentia as its headquarters. In his LinkedIn, Juan appears to be the president of "Ageia Densi Colombia", which is a third organization (and that I couldn't find before in the ALAC ALS search because it is listed as MINKA Colombia - https://atlarge.icann.org/alses/lacralo [atlarge.icann.org]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/atlarge.icann.org/alses/lacralo__;!!PtGJab4!6EIV4A4jf1EYJmbOBgWv0ImPEYLIVZIXRcGL_EJbq_74asc4kN9SXB0oqWpityTCCATsjqcHvVLhgbXtf1179mYNA3ZzqX8AYzQw$>, which was the name I remember him being affiliated to a few months ago). I think we need to better understand if there is a difference with the person who requested the affiliation.

Cordially,

Pedro de Perdigão Lana
Advogado - OAB/PR 90.600 [nic.br]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.nic.br/__;!!PtGJab4!6EIV4A4jf1EYJmbOBgWv0ImPEYLIVZIXRcGL_EJbq_74asc4kN9SXB0oqWpityTCCATsjqcHvVLhgbXtf1179mYNA3Zzqf2qKEcF$>,  Pesquisador (GEDAI/UFPR [gedai.com.br]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.gedai.com.br/__;!!PtGJab4!6EIV4A4jf1EYJmbOBgWv0ImPEYLIVZIXRcGL_EJbq_74asc4kN9SXB0oqWpityTCCATsjqcHvVLhgbXtf1179mYNA3ZzqS_36_8b$>)
Doutorando em Direito (UFPR), Mestre em Direito Empresarial (UCoimbra),
Membro da Coordenação - NCUC (ICANN) [ncuc.org]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ncuc.org/__;!!PtGJab4!6EIV4A4jf1EYJmbOBgWv0ImPEYLIVZIXRcGL_EJbq_74asc4kN9SXB0oqWpityTCCATsjqcHvVLhgbXtf1179mYNA3ZzqWySZFyh$>, ISOC BR [isoc.org.br]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/isoc.org.br/__;!!PtGJab4!6EIV4A4jf1EYJmbOBgWv0ImPEYLIVZIXRcGL_EJbq_74asc4kN9SXB0oqWpityTCCATsjqcHvVLhgbXtf1179mYNA3ZzqeS8-Sr0$>, IODA [ioda.org.br]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/ioda.org.br/__;!!PtGJab4!6EIV4A4jf1EYJmbOBgWv0ImPEYLIVZIXRcGL_EJbq_74asc4kN9SXB0oqWpityTCCATsjqcHvVLhgbXtf1179mYNA3Zzqf1mKzX-$> e CC Brasil [br.creativecommons.net]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/br.creativecommons.net/__;!!PtGJab4!6EIV4A4jf1EYJmbOBgWv0ImPEYLIVZIXRcGL_EJbq_74asc4kN9SXB0oqWpityTCCATsjqcHvVLhgbXtf1179mYNA3ZzqUADYkKB$>.
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Em dom., 14 de jul. de 2024 às 12:29, Jean F. Quéralt <JFQueralt at theiofoundation.org<mailto:JFQueralt at theiofoundation.org>> escreveu:
Hi Pedro.

Is the Charter marked by upcoming<https://community.icann.org/display/NPOCC/Upcoming+Charter> in the wiki already in effect? If not, the previous/current chart<https://community.icann.org/display/NPOCC/Charter> seems to have a higher bar: "5.1.1.6 Own at least one domain name and maintain or have plans to create an organization website".

It is my understanding that the current applicable charter is the one I referenced as the new positions in the last election were those described in it.

I admit I'm fuzzy about that as the transition never was fully clear to me.
Probably Andrea and Daniel can shed light on this.

On the other hand, "plans to create an organization website" is definitely a qualitative concept that can't be measured and open to interpretation at an operational level.
I'm more comfortable with just the ownership (of which we need to establish a procedure for verification as I mentioned) so I hope that's not applicable anymore because it would be pretty much an admin nightmare.

Another question: within NCSG, Ageia Densi is an international organization (encompassing Ageia Densi Brazil as well) or an Argentinian one? On our website, the Argentinian one seems to be affiliated with NCSG/NCUC, with Franco as its rep, but, digging for more info, Carlos Aguirre seems to be the official rep of the international part. Sorry if I'm not being precise, it is a bit hard to find clear and recent info about it through search tools.

All I was able to find was their FB page and ALAC profile. There I saw Juan Manuel Rojas was a Rep.

Is your doubt about their structure and actual jurisdiction of registration?

Regards,
Jean

Cordially,

Pedro de Perdigão Lana
Lawyer [nic.br]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.nic.br/__;!!PtGJab4!6EIV4A4jf1EYJmbOBgWv0ImPEYLIVZIXRcGL_EJbq_74asc4kN9SXB0oqWpityTCCATsjqcHvVLhgbXtf1179mYNA3Zzqf2qKEcF$>, GEDAI/UFPR [gedai.com.br]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.gedai.com.br/__;!!PtGJab4!6EIV4A4jf1EYJmbOBgWv0ImPEYLIVZIXRcGL_EJbq_74asc4kN9SXB0oqWpityTCCATsjqcHvVLhgbXtf1179mYNA3ZzqS_36_8b$> Researcher
PhD Candidate (UFPR), LLM in Business Law (UCoimbra)
Board Member @ NCUC (ICANN) [ncuc.org]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ncuc.org/__;!!PtGJab4!6EIV4A4jf1EYJmbOBgWv0ImPEYLIVZIXRcGL_EJbq_74asc4kN9SXB0oqWpityTCCATsjqcHvVLhgbXtf1179mYNA3ZzqWySZFyh$>, ISOC BR [isoc.org.br]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/isoc.org.br/__;!!PtGJab4!6EIV4A4jf1EYJmbOBgWv0ImPEYLIVZIXRcGL_EJbq_74asc4kN9SXB0oqWpityTCCATsjqcHvVLhgbXtf1179mYNA3ZzqeS8-Sr0$>, CC Brasil [br.creativecommons.net]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/br.creativecommons.net/__;!!PtGJab4!6EIV4A4jf1EYJmbOBgWv0ImPEYLIVZIXRcGL_EJbq_74asc4kN9SXB0oqWpityTCCATsjqcHvVLhgbXtf1179mYNA3ZzqUADYkKB$> and IODA [ioda.org.br]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/ioda.org.br/__;!!PtGJab4!6EIV4A4jf1EYJmbOBgWv0ImPEYLIVZIXRcGL_EJbq_74asc4kN9SXB0oqWpityTCCATsjqcHvVLhgbXtf1179mYNA3Zzqf1mKzX-$>
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Em dom., 14 de jul. de 2024 às 00:26, Jean F. Quéralt via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> escreveu:
Hi Caleb,

Does this mean that membership requires specific proof of ownership to be verified?

How do you propose we do that?
I haven't seen a mention to this on the existing documentation.

Personally, I don't see a problem with having a domain parked (which in this case is because they reacquired it hours ago).

As mentioned in my previous message, NPOC's charter requires ownership. It says nothing about usage.

There are plenty of reasons why an organization may not be actively using their domain. Sometimes they don't even want to have a website and just want to protect themselves against impersonation. I've met orgs like that.

If we are going down the rabbit hole of actively verifying ownership, given the current Lookup/RDRS status, we have a few options that we then need to document properly.

Option 1)
We give some custom code that needs to be injected into the Public Info so that it can be found through
https://lookup.icann.org/en/lookup [lookup.icann.org]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lookup.icann.org/en/lookup__;!!PtGJab4!6EIV4A4jf1EYJmbOBgWv0ImPEYLIVZIXRcGL_EJbq_74asc4kN9SXB0oqWpityTCCATsjqcHvVLhgbXtf1179mYNA3Zzqf1gL5yL$>

Option 2)
We give some custom code that needs to be injected in a TXT record that we then query

Option 3)
We give some custom code that needs to be injected in a text file on the root of their https server so we can query it (https://domain/NPOC-Code.txt [domain]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/domain/NPOC-Code.txt__;!!PtGJab4!6EIV4A4jf1EYJmbOBgWv0ImPEYLIVZIXRcGL_EJbq_74asc4kN9SXB0oqWpityTCCATsjqcHvVLhgbXtf1179mYNA3ZzqU9oHkHv$>)

There may be other options. These already cost more work for the EC.

The situation now is we need to decide what's our procedure or we'll get stuck here.

Jean

On Sun, Jul 14, 2024, 06:39 Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com<mailto:muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Everyone,

I did a little more digging. I will be declining my support for AGEIA DENSI.
The domain Jean mentioned is parked and until when it is active, we can't seem to find out. Ideally, I would grant this but given as with the usual procedure, more information is requested.

Regards

On Sat, Jul 13, 2024 at 2:13 PM Jean F. Quéralt via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
Hi all,

I've been informed that the organization has reacquired their domain (http://www.ageia.org/ [ageia.org]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.ageia.org/__;!!PtGJab4!6EIV4A4jf1EYJmbOBgWv0ImPEYLIVZIXRcGL_EJbq_74asc4kN9SXB0oqWpityTCCATsjqcHvVLhgbXtf1179mYNA3ZzqSI631LX$>)
The website is not up although that should not be a consideration for us.

For all I am concerned, I give my thumbs up for when/if AGEIA DENSI requests to join NPOC without having to undergo a new membership application.

Best,
Jean F. Queralt
Founder & CEO - The IO Foundation [theiofoundation.org]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.TheIOFoundation.org__;!!PtGJab4!6EIV4A4jf1EYJmbOBgWv0ImPEYLIVZIXRcGL_EJbq_74asc4kN9SXB0oqWpityTCCATsjqcHvVLhgbXtf1179mYNA3ZzqfUjghjX$>
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On Sun, 14 Jul 2024 at 01:20, Jean F. Quéralt <JFQueralt at theiofoundation.org<mailto:JFQueralt at theiofoundation.org>> wrote:
Hi all,

I have confirmed that there is a procedural impasse that needs to be addressed before we register AGEIA DENSI as a member to NPOC.

1) First of all, it is to be noted that, as @Andrea Glandon<mailto:andrea.glandon at icann.org> has mentioned, I have not found reference/info on this type of procedure. It would appear we are playing it by ear, which is fine to a degree.
I'd nonetheless recommend that moving forward we take the opportunity to write this case scenario somewhere. I can work on the language and submit a proposal.

2) The applicant, AGEIA DENSI, is not in a position at this very moment, to comply with one of the requirements to be a member of NPOC.
As per NPOC Charter:
2. Membership > c. Requirements > 3.Is a registrant of a domain name.

Currently, the organization does not own their previous domain anymore (and it would appear that no other domain either).
After reaching out to the org's rep, I am confirmed this is a situation they are actively looking to resolve.
Once that's done, I'll be OK with them joining. Meanwhile, I rather apply procedure and put the topic on standby.

Also, @Andrea Glandon<mailto:andrea.glandon at icann.org> can you clarify if they have
a) Requested information about whether is it possible
b) Formally requested to join NPOC
Thanks.

Regards,
Jean F. Queralt
Founder & CEO - The IO Foundation [theiofoundation.org]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.TheIOFoundation.org__;!!PtGJab4!6EIV4A4jf1EYJmbOBgWv0ImPEYLIVZIXRcGL_EJbq_74asc4kN9SXB0oqWpityTCCATsjqcHvVLhgbXtf1179mYNA3ZzqfUjghjX$>
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On Sat, 13 Jul 2024 at 01:45, Andrea Glandon via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
Hello NCSG EC,

The organization Ageia Densi is already an approved NCSG and NCUC member. They would like to add NPOC to their membership. I have looked at the charter and do not see anything specific regarding this situation. How should this situation be handled? Do they have to go through the regular application process?

Thanks!
Andrea Glandon
Policy Operations Sr. Coordinator
Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)
Skype ID:  acglandon76

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