From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Mon Jun  1 16:21:41 2020
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie E Perrin)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 09:21:41 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Nominations
Message-ID: <4cb2c930-7baf-e266-05a8-d57f20e0f3bb@mail.utoronto.ca>

Hi folks,

It was a busy day yesterday.? I am sorry to say that Tomslin's 
nomination and acceptance came after midnight UTC so it would be good if 
you guys quickly decided whether or not you are going to break another 
rule and accept it.? David's came in, by my computer time, one minute 
before the deadline so he is safe.? This decision is up to you, at least 
in my opinion, although you could consult some of the procedural experts 
for their views..

I have decided that I will withdraw my candidacy in order to give a 
newcomer a chance.? As you can see from the geographic and gender 
balance, even if the whole world hates me and I only get a few votes, 
our rules might dictate that I would win over a second African male.

I think it has been good to get new people running in this race, and 
although it has been very hectic and somewhat unusual, hopefully we have 
a good outcome in the end!

Kind regards,

Stephanie



From robin at ipjustice.org  Mon Jun  1 17:32:49 2020
From: robin at ipjustice.org (Robin Gross)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 07:32:49 -0700
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Nominations
In-Reply-To: <4cb2c930-7baf-e266-05a8-d57f20e0f3bb@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <4cb2c930-7baf-e266-05a8-d57f20e0f3bb@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <2531D426-2629-4E44-9AD9-A632704E9E23@ipjustice.org>

Hello,

The deadline twice announced on the members list for the extended nomination period was 23:59 PST (not UTC), therefore Tomslin?s nomination and acceptance were before the deadline, so no problems there thankfully.

Maryam, may we see the updated ballot that includes Stephanie?s withdrawal and the new nominations that came in during the extension period?  Also, may we schedule a 2nd ?meet the candidates? call asap?  Thank you very much!

All best,
Robin

> On Jun 1, 2020, at 6:21 AM, Stephanie E Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> It was a busy day yesterday.  I am sorry to say that Tomslin's nomination and acceptance came after midnight UTC so it would be good if you guys quickly decided whether or not you are going to break another rule and accept it.  David's came in, by my computer time, one minute before the deadline so he is safe.  This decision is up to you, at least in my opinion, although you could consult some of the procedural experts for their views..
> 
> I have decided that I will withdraw my candidacy in order to give a newcomer a chance.  As you can see from the geographic and gender balance, even if the whole world hates me and I only get a few votes, our rules might dictate that I would win over a second African male.
> 
> I think it has been good to get new people running in this race, and although it has been very hectic and somewhat unusual, hopefully we have a good outcome in the end!
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Stephanie
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec



From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Mon Jun  1 17:33:32 2020
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie E Perrin)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 10:33:32 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] URGENT! Maryam needs to prepare the NCSG ballot!
Message-ID: <54132dd6-ee00-bd61-847c-f7d6950aa106@mail.utoronto.ca>

This is further to my earlier note.? Please decide whether to accept 
Tomslin's name on the ballot, even though it was after the deadline.? 
Please ignore my previous resignation indication, after closer perusal 
of the rules, it seems that because of gender balance rules (Tat would 
be the only female on COuncil and that is against the rules) my 
resignation of candidacy would not impact the two newcomers who are 
running, since they are both male. Apologies for sending that thought 
before checking the rulebook...

Please get the ballot names finalized for Maryam at your earliest 
convenience.? Or tell me to do it if you think my recusal no longer applies.

Kind regards

Steph



From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Mon Jun  1 17:36:49 2020
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie E Perrin)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 10:36:49 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] URGENT! Maryam needs to prepare the NCSG ballot!
In-Reply-To: <54132dd6-ee00-bd61-847c-f7d6950aa106@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <54132dd6-ee00-bd61-847c-f7d6950aa106@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <f1043adc-4cfc-fd70-6166-9d45b8c0038f@mail.utoronto.ca>

Ok one more time, sorry for the confusion, I did not notice the PST 
time.? WHy on earth PST time?? Just asking.....

Thanks Steph

On 2020-06-01 10:33 a.m., Stephanie E Perrin via NCSG-EC wrote:
> This is further to my earlier note.? Please decide whether to accept 
> Tomslin's name on the ballot, even though it was after the deadline.? 
> Please ignore my previous resignation indication, after closer perusal 
> of the rules, it seems that because of gender balance rules (Tat would 
> be the only female on COuncil and that is against the rules) my 
> resignation of candidacy would not impact the two newcomers who are 
> running, since they are both male. Apologies for sending that thought 
> before checking the rulebook...
>
> Please get the ballot names finalized for Maryam at your earliest 
> convenience.? Or tell me to do it if you think my recusal no longer 
> applies.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Steph
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec


From maryam.bakoshi at icann.org  Mon Jun  1 17:42:11 2020
From: maryam.bakoshi at icann.org (Maryam Bakoshi)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 14:42:11 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-EC] NCSG Elections Ballot - Please Review
Message-ID: <74B99AB0-24F4-488C-ADB6-895F2C7BDAB1@icann.org>

Dear EC,

Please find below ballot for the NCSG Election for your review. Please respond by today Monday 01 June 2020 2359 UTC.

NCSG Election 2020
Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
**NCSG Chair**
[chair] Bruna Martins dos Santos
[chair] Abstain


**GNSO Council**
Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
[Council1] David Cake
[Council1] Abstain

Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
[Council2] Juan Manuel Rojas
[Council2] Abstain
Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
[Council3] Julf Helsingius
[Council3] Abstain

Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
[Council4] Tomslin Samme-Nlar
[Council4] Abstain

Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
[Council5] Tomslin Samme-Nlar
[Council5] Abstain

Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
[Council6] Widsom Donkor
[Council6] Abstain


NOTES

1.      You can change your vote until the deadline on 17 June, 23:59 UTC. Only the last selection will be counted.
2.      If you don't select any choice for a seat, the vote for that seat will be counted as zero.
3.      You will receive several reminders during the election with the same link to your ballot. The weight of your vote is indicated in the ballot (1 for individual, 2 for small organization and 4 for large organization).


Many thanks,
--

Maryam Bakoshi | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
ICANN | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
S: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | T: +44 7846 471777

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200601/3e8b3b89/attachment.htm>

From maryam.bakoshi at icann.org  Mon Jun  1 17:48:03 2020
From: maryam.bakoshi at icann.org (Maryam Bakoshi)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 14:48:03 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-EC] *UPDATED* - NCSG Elections - Please Review Ballot
Message-ID: <B4EF510A-0A04-4FD3-BB89-4CC139F32680@icann.org>

Dear EC,

Please find below ballot for the NCSG Election for your review. Please respond by today Monday 01 June 2020 2359 UTC.

NCSG Election 2020

Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:

**NCSG Chair**
[chair] Bruna Martins dos Santos
[chair] Abstain


**GNSO Council**
Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
[Council1] David Cake
[Council1] Abstain

Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
[Council2] Juan Manuel Rojas
[Council2] Abstain

Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
[Council3] Julf Helsingius
[Council3] Abstain

Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
[Council4] Stephanie Perrin
[Council4] Abstain

Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
[Council5] Tomslin Samme-Nlar
[Council5] Abstain

Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
[Council6] Wisdom Donkor
[Council6] Abstain


Many thanks,
--

Maryam Bakoshi | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
ICANN | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
S: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | T: +44 7846 471777

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200601/4cdaffdc/attachment.htm>

From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Mon Jun  1 17:52:58 2020
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 10:52:58 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] *UPDATED* - NCSG Elections - Please Review Ballot
In-Reply-To: <B4EF510A-0A04-4FD3-BB89-4CC139F32680@icann.org>
References: <B4EF510A-0A04-4FD3-BB89-4CC139F32680@icann.org>
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-p9fwuyiyLyZzbv=HwHRkiqNGP9+vvEH+-Heke7udQVvQ@mail.gmail.com>

In view of the latest emails, seems fine with me.

Given that it matters, I would also suggest that we send to the membership
a recap of the ballot, as it is above, but including gender and regional
affiliation. Once the ballot is *really* finalized, obviously...

Have a nice day,

On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 10:48 AM Maryam Bakoshi via NCSG-EC <
ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:

> Dear EC,
>
>
>
> Please find below ballot for the NCSG Election for your review. Please
> respond by today Monday 01 June 2020 2359 UTC.
>
>
>
> NCSG Election 2020
>
>
>
> Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
>
>
>
> **NCSG Chair**
>
> [chair] Bruna Martins dos Santos
>
> [chair] Abstain
>
>
>
>
>
> **GNSO Council**
>
> Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
>
> [Council1] David Cake
>
> [Council1] Abstain
>
>
>
> Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
>
> [Council2] Juan Manuel Rojas
>
> [Council2] Abstain
>
>
>
> Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
>
> [Council3] Julf Helsingius
>
> [Council3] Abstain
>
>
>
> Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
>
> [Council4] Stephanie Perrin
>
> [Council4] Abstain
>
>
>
> Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
>
> [Council5] Tomslin Samme-Nlar
>
> [Council5] Abstain
>
>
>
> Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
>
> [Council6] Wisdom Donkor
>
> [Council6] Abstain
>
>
>
>
>
> Many thanks,
>
> --
>
>
>
> *Maryam Bakoshi* | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
>
> *ICANN* | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
>
> *S*: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | *T*: +44 7846 471777
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200601/47589348/attachment.htm>

From plommer at gmail.com  Mon Jun  1 17:56:14 2020
From: plommer at gmail.com (Raoul Plommer)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 17:56:14 +0300
Subject: [NCSG-EC] URGENT! Maryam needs to prepare the NCSG ballot!
In-Reply-To: <f1043adc-4cfc-fd70-6166-9d45b8c0038f@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <54132dd6-ee00-bd61-847c-f7d6950aa106@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <f1043adc-4cfc-fd70-6166-9d45b8c0038f@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <CADirp9RZfMd2ORnyLHiNoumw7zpNPwihHT0nEX2evoGaeL8Pxg@mail.gmail.com>

I've understood PST as "the last meaningful timezone", but of course
nothing official. Sounds sensible. :)

I'm totally fine with Tomslin on the ballot, especially after Stephanie has
announced her withdrawing from the elections.

Sorry for all the stress I might've caused by my sloppiness and having to
apologize on NCSG ECs behalf.

-Raoul

On Mon, 1 Jun 2020 at 17:37, Stephanie E Perrin via NCSG-EC <
ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:

> Ok one more time, sorry for the confusion, I did not notice the PST
> time.  WHy on earth PST time?  Just asking.....
>
> Thanks Steph
>
> On 2020-06-01 10:33 a.m., Stephanie E Perrin via NCSG-EC wrote:
> > This is further to my earlier note.  Please decide whether to accept
> > Tomslin's name on the ballot, even though it was after the deadline.
> > Please ignore my previous resignation indication, after closer perusal
> > of the rules, it seems that because of gender balance rules (Tat would
> > be the only female on COuncil and that is against the rules) my
> > resignation of candidacy would not impact the two newcomers who are
> > running, since they are both male. Apologies for sending that thought
> > before checking the rulebook...
> >
> > Please get the ballot names finalized for Maryam at your earliest
> > convenience.  Or tell me to do it if you think my recusal no longer
> > applies.
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> > Steph
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > NCSG-EC mailing list
> > NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> > https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200601/1c121287/attachment.htm>

From plommer at gmail.com  Mon Jun  1 18:03:18 2020
From: plommer at gmail.com (Raoul Plommer)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 18:03:18 +0300
Subject: [NCSG-EC] *UPDATED* - NCSG Elections - Please Review Ballot
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-p9fwuyiyLyZzbv=HwHRkiqNGP9+vvEH+-Heke7udQVvQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B4EF510A-0A04-4FD3-BB89-4CC139F32680@icann.org>
 <CAPZSw-p9fwuyiyLyZzbv=HwHRkiqNGP9+vvEH+-Heke7udQVvQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADirp9R7PwhOBzW-o7bqQ1wV8PF9WgyTD2F13dXnaKo-8yoPsQ@mail.gmail.com>

Umm, so after a little reconsideration, the list looks good, glad you're
still running Stephanie!

-Raoul

On Mon, 1 Jun 2020 at 17:53, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC <
ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:

> In view of the latest emails, seems fine with me.
>
> Given that it matters, I would also suggest that we send to the membership
> a recap of the ballot, as it is above, but including gender and regional
> affiliation. Once the ballot is *really* finalized, obviously...
>
> Have a nice day,
>
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 10:48 AM Maryam Bakoshi via NCSG-EC <
> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>
>> Dear EC,
>>
>>
>>
>> Please find below ballot for the NCSG Election for your review. Please
>> respond by today Monday 01 June 2020 2359 UTC.
>>
>>
>>
>> NCSG Election 2020
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
>>
>>
>>
>> **NCSG Chair**
>>
>> [chair] Bruna Martins dos Santos
>>
>> [chair] Abstain
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> **GNSO Council**
>>
>> Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
>>
>> [Council1] David Cake
>>
>> [Council1] Abstain
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
>>
>> [Council2] Juan Manuel Rojas
>>
>> [Council2] Abstain
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
>>
>> [Council3] Julf Helsingius
>>
>> [Council3] Abstain
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
>>
>> [Council4] Stephanie Perrin
>>
>> [Council4] Abstain
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
>>
>> [Council5] Tomslin Samme-Nlar
>>
>> [Council5] Abstain
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
>>
>> [Council6] Wisdom Donkor
>>
>> [Council6] Abstain
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Many thanks,
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> *Maryam Bakoshi* | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
>>
>> *ICANN* | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
>>
>> *S*: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | *T*: +44 7846 471777
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200601/a4621799/attachment.htm>

From robin at ipjustice.org  Mon Jun  1 18:50:44 2020
From: robin at ipjustice.org (Robin Gross)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 08:50:44 -0700
Subject: [NCSG-EC] NCSG Elections Ballot - Please Review
In-Reply-To: <74B99AB0-24F4-488C-ADB6-895F2C7BDAB1@icann.org>
References: <74B99AB0-24F4-488C-ADB6-895F2C7BDAB1@icann.org>
Message-ID: <6DD42C3C-51B9-4934-B5BE-49461EA4162B@ipjustice.org>

It looks like Tomslin is accidentally listed on the ballot twice.

Also, I think we need to include language on the ballot about the number of council seats we are filling (4) and that the winning candidate with the least number of votes will be serving a one-year term.

Given our gender rule of needing at least two councilors of each gender, and Tatiana is the only female councilor continuing, it means that Stephanie will be elected automatically to the council regardless of the number of votes she receives.

I do not believe our regional diversity rules will be a factor in this election, but I?d need to see a list of exactly who declares which regions to say for sure.  Our charter states ?To the maximum extent possible, no more than 2 NCSG GNSO Council Representatives can be declared resident of the same geographic region??.

Thanks,
Robin

> On Jun 1, 2020, at 7:42 AM, Maryam Bakoshi via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
> 
> Dear EC,
>  
> Please find below ballot for the NCSG Election for your review. Please respond by today Monday 01 June 2020 2359 UTC.
>  
> NCSG Election 2020
> Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
> **NCSG Chair**
> [chair] Bruna Martins dos Santos
> [chair] Abstain
>    
>     
> **GNSO Council**
> Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
> [Council1] David Cake
> [Council1] Abstain
>  
> Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
> [Council2] Juan Manuel Rojas
> [Council2] Abstain
> Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
> [Council3] Julf Helsingius
> [Council3] Abstain
>  
> Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
> [Council4] Tomslin Samme-Nlar
> [Council4] Abstain
>  
> Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
> [Council5] Tomslin Samme-Nlar
> [Council5] Abstain
>  
> Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
> [Council6] Widsom Donkor
> [Council6] Abstain
>  
>  
> NOTES
>                
> 1.      You can change your vote until the deadline on 17 June, 23:59 UTC. Only the last selection will be counted.
> 2.      If you don't select any choice for a seat, the vote for that seat will be counted as zero.
> 3.      You will receive several reminders during the election with the same link to your ballot. The weight of your vote is indicated in the ballot (1 for individual, 2 for small organization and 4 for large organization).
>  
>  
> Many thanks,
> -- 
>  
> Maryam Bakoshi | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator 
> ICANN | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers 
> S: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | T: +44 7846 471777
>  
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200601/d278dced/attachment.htm>

From maryam.bakoshi at icann.org  Mon Jun  1 18:56:29 2020
From: maryam.bakoshi at icann.org (Maryam Bakoshi)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 15:56:29 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-EC] *UPDATED* - NCSG Elections - Please Review Ballot
In-Reply-To: <B4EF510A-0A04-4FD3-BB89-4CC139F32680@icann.org>
References: <B4EF510A-0A04-4FD3-BB89-4CC139F32680@icann.org>
Message-ID: <A358B1CF-B6D1-41FA-8B26-4DF7CA2470BC@icann.org>

Hi Robin,

I sent an updated list below ?

I also sent an updated nominations table to the discuss list earlier. Adding it here too:

2020 NCSG Election Candidates
I.  2020 - 2021 NCSG Chair
(1 to elect) 1-year term
Nominated Candidate

Nominated By

Accepted Nomination

Candidate Statement

Geographic Region

Rafik Dammak

Reynaldo Alonso Reyes

No

No

AF

Bruna Martins dos Santos

Robin Gross

Yes

Yes

LAC



II.  2020 NCSG GNSO Representatives
(4 to elect) three 2-year terms and one 1-year term
Nominated Candidate

Nominated By

Accepted Nomination

Candidate Statement

Geographic Region

Juan Manuel Rojas

Reynaldo Alonso Reyes

Yes

Yes

LAC

Elsa Saade

Tatiana Tropina

No

No

NA

Stephanie Perrin

Tapani Tarvainen

Yes

Yes

NA

Farzaneh Badii

Raoul Plommer

No

No

NA

Julf Helsingius

Tapani Tarvainen

Yes

Yes

EU

Nadira Alharaj

Raoul Plommer

No

No

EMEA

Tomslin Samme-Nlar

Farzaneh Badii

Yes

Yes

APAC

David Cake

David Cake

Yes

Yes

APAC

Wisdom Donkor

Akinremi Peter Taiwo

Yes

AF* (TBC)



Many thanks,
--

Maryam Bakoshi | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
ICANN | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
S: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | T: +44 7846 471777


From: Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>
Date: Monday, 1 June 2020 at 15:48
To: NCSG EC <NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
Subject: *UPDATED* - NCSG Elections - Please Review Ballot

Dear EC,

Please find below ballot for the NCSG Election for your review. Please respond by today Monday 01 June 2020 2359 UTC.

NCSG Election 2020

Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:

**NCSG Chair**
[chair] Bruna Martins dos Santos
[chair] Abstain


**GNSO Council**
Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
[Council1] David Cake
[Council1] Abstain

Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
[Council2] Juan Manuel Rojas
[Council2] Abstain

Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
[Council3] Julf Helsingius
[Council3] Abstain

Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
[Council4] Stephanie Perrin
[Council4] Abstain

Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
[Council5] Tomslin Samme-Nlar
[Council5] Abstain

Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
[Council6] Wisdom Donkor
[Council6] Abstain


Many thanks,
--

Maryam Bakoshi | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
ICANN | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
S: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | T: +44 7846 471777

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200601/ad3e78ca/attachment.htm>

From maryam.bakoshi at icann.org  Mon Jun  1 19:28:29 2020
From: maryam.bakoshi at icann.org (Maryam Bakoshi)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 16:28:29 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Revised Ballot Wording
Message-ID: <D0EDD701-23BF-43C4-A089-7A2A0D24243A@icann.org>

Dear EC,

Please see below. I have revised/added wording in yellow highlights to the ballot.

NCSG Election 2020

Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
**NCSG Chair**
[chair] Bruna Martins dos Santos
[chair] Abstain


**GNSO Council**



There are four (4) vacant council positions. Please select no more than 4 candidates; you may abstain from selecting a candidate if you wish, but you may only vote for 4 individuals.

Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
[Council1] David Cake
[Council1] Abstain

Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
[Council2] Juan Manuel Rojas
[Council2] Abstain
Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
[Council3] Julf Helsingius
[Council3] Abstain

Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
[Council4] Stephanie Perrin
[Council4] Abstain
Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
[Council5] Tomslin Samme-Nlar
[Council5] Abstain

Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
[Council6] Widsom Donkor
[Council6] Abstain


NOTES

1. There are four (4) GNSO Council seats; three (3), 2-year terms and one (1), 1-year term. This means that the candidate with the lowest number of votes amongst the top 4 candidates, will serve a 1-year term and the top three (3) candidates with the most votes, will each serve a 2-year term.

2. You can change your vote until the deadline on 17 June, 23:59 UTC. Only the last selection will be counted.

3. There are four (4) vacant council positions. Please select no more than 4 candidates; you may abstain from selecting a candidate if you wish, but you may only vote for 4 individuals.
4. You will receive several reminders during the election with the same link to your ballot. The weight of your vote is indicated in the ballot (1 for individual, 2 for small organization and 4 for large organization).



Many thanks,
--

Maryam Bakoshi | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
ICANN | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
S: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | T: +44 7846 471777

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200601/10404372/attachment.htm>

From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Mon Jun  1 19:36:59 2020
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie E Perrin)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 12:36:59 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Revised Ballot Wording
In-Reply-To: <D0EDD701-23BF-43C4-A089-7A2A0D24243A@icann.org>
References: <D0EDD701-23BF-43C4-A089-7A2A0D24243A@icann.org>
Message-ID: <6f94e2dd-0247-6c0a-8029-1fa946ca202d@mail.utoronto.ca>

Don't forget to change Widsom to Wisdom

SP

On 2020-06-01 12:28 p.m., Maryam Bakoshi via NCSG-EC wrote:
>
> Dear EC,
>
> Please see below. I have revised/added wording in yellow highlights to 
> the ballot.
>
> NCSG Election 2020
>
> Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
>
> **NCSG Chair**
>
> [chair] Bruna Martins dos Santos
>
> [chair] Abstain
>
> **GNSO Council**
>
> There are four (4) vacant council positions. Please select no more 
> than 4 candidates; you may abstain from selecting a candidate if you 
> wish, but you may only vote for 4 individuals.
>
> Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
>
> [Council1] David Cake
>
> [Council1] Abstain
>
> Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
>
> [Council2] Juan Manuel Rojas
>
> [Council2] Abstain
>
> Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
>
> [Council3] Julf Helsingius
>
> [Council3] Abstain
>
> Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
>
> [Council4] Stephanie Perrin
>
> [Council4] Abstain
>
> Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
>
> [Council5] Tomslin Samme-Nlar
>
> [Council5] Abstain
>
> Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
>
> [Council6] Widsom Donkor
>
> [Council6] Abstain
>
> NOTES
>
> 1. There are four (4) GNSO Council seats; three (3), 2-year terms and 
> one (1), 1-year term. This means that the candidate with the lowest 
> number of votes amongst the top 4 candidates, will serve a 1-year term 
> and the top three (3) candidates with the most votes, will each serve 
> a 2-year term.
>
> 2. You can change your vote until the deadline on 17 June, 23:59 UTC. 
> Only the last selection will be counted.
>
> 3. There are four (4) vacant council positions. Please select no more 
> than 4 candidates; you may abstain from selecting a candidate if you 
> wish, but you may only vote for 4 individuals.
>
> 4. You will receive several reminders during the election with the 
> same link to your ballot. The weight of your vote is indicated in the 
> ballot (1 for individual, 2 for small organization and 4 for large 
> organization).
>
> Many thanks,
>
> -- 
>
> *Maryam Bakoshi*?| SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
>
> *ICANN*?| Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
>
> *S*: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | *T*:?+44 7846 471777
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200601/679d4f33/attachment.htm>

From robin at ipjustice.org  Mon Jun  1 19:41:22 2020
From: robin at ipjustice.org (Robin Gross)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 09:41:22 -0700
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Revised Ballot Wording
In-Reply-To: <6f94e2dd-0247-6c0a-8029-1fa946ca202d@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <D0EDD701-23BF-43C4-A089-7A2A0D24243A@icann.org>
 <6f94e2dd-0247-6c0a-8029-1fa946ca202d@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <276A6791-E482-4D6E-A3B0-DF44171F9031@ipjustice.org>

Good catch, Steph.  Also, we need a Candidate Statement from Wisdom.  I would give him 24 hours to post it.  If he can?t, his name shouldn?t be on the ballot, as only candidates who have provided a Candidate Statement are eligible to be on the final ballot.

Thanks,
Robin

> On Jun 1, 2020, at 9:36 AM, Stephanie E Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
> 
> Don't forget to change Widsom to Wisdom
> 
> SP
> 
> On 2020-06-01 12:28 p.m., Maryam Bakoshi via NCSG-EC wrote:
>> Dear EC,
>>  
>> Please see below. I have revised/added wording in yellow highlights to the ballot.
>>  
>> NCSG Election 2020
>>  
>> Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
>> **NCSG Chair**
>> [chair] Bruna Martins dos Santos
>> [chair] Abstain
>>    
>>     
>> **GNSO Council**
>>  
>> There are four (4) vacant council positions. Please select no more than 4 candidates; you may abstain from selecting a candidate if you wish, but you may only vote for 4 individuals. 
>>  
>> Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
>> [Council1] David Cake
>> [Council1] Abstain
>>  
>> Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
>> [Council2] Juan Manuel Rojas
>> [Council2] Abstain
>> Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
>> [Council3] Julf Helsingius
>> [Council3] Abstain
>>  
>> Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
>> [Council4] Stephanie Perrin
>> [Council4] Abstain
>> Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
>> [Council5] Tomslin Samme-Nlar
>> [Council5] Abstain
>>  
>> Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
>> [Council6] Widsom Donkor
>> [Council6] Abstain
>>  
>>  
>> NOTES
>>  
>> 1. There are four (4) GNSO Council seats; three (3), 2-year terms and one (1), 1-year term. This means that the candidate with the lowest number of votes amongst the top 4 candidates, will serve a 1-year term and the top three (3) candidates with the most votes, will each serve a 2-year term.
>>                
>> 2. You can change your vote until the deadline on 17 June, 23:59 UTC. Only the last selection will be counted.
>> 3. There are four (4) vacant council positions. Please select no more than 4 candidates; you may abstain from selecting a candidate if you wish, but you may only vote for 4 individuals.
>> 4. You will receive several reminders during the election with the same link to your ballot. The weight of your vote is indicated in the ballot (1 for individual, 2 for small organization and 4 for large organization).
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> Many thanks,
>> -- 
>>  
>> Maryam Bakoshi | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator 
>> ICANN | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers 
>> S: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | T: +44 7846 471777
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200601/2633110f/attachment.htm>

From maryam.bakoshi at icann.org  Mon Jun  1 19:43:59 2020
From: maryam.bakoshi at icann.org (Maryam Bakoshi)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 16:43:59 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-EC] [Ext] Re:  Revised Ballot Wording
In-Reply-To: <276A6791-E482-4D6E-A3B0-DF44171F9031@ipjustice.org>
References: <D0EDD701-23BF-43C4-A089-7A2A0D24243A@icann.org>
 <6f94e2dd-0247-6c0a-8029-1fa946ca202d@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <276A6791-E482-4D6E-A3B0-DF44171F9031@ipjustice.org>
Message-ID: <00D3925B-38E1-48A9-AB64-8BE157F30BA6@icann.org>

?I sent Wisdom an email, he replied to say he will send the statement in 30 minutes.

Many thanks,
--

Maryam Bakoshi | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
ICANN | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
S: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | T: +44 7846 471777


From: NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec-bounces at lists.ncsg.is> on behalf of NCSG EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>
Reply to: Robin Gross <robin at ipjustice.org>
Date: Monday, 1 June 2020 at 17:42
To: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>, NCSG EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>
Subject: [Ext] Re: [NCSG-EC] Revised Ballot Wording

Good catch, Steph.  Also, we need a Candidate Statement from Wisdom.  I would give him 24 hours to post it.  If he can?t, his name shouldn?t be on the ballot, as only candidates who have provided a Candidate Statement are eligible to be on the final ballot.

Thanks,
Robin

On Jun 1, 2020, at 9:36 AM, Stephanie E Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:

Don't forget to change Widsom to Wisdom
SP
On 2020-06-01 12:28 p.m., Maryam Bakoshi via NCSG-EC wrote:
Dear EC,

Please see below. I have revised/added wording in yellow highlights to the ballot.

NCSG Election 2020

Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
**NCSG Chair**
[chair] Bruna Martins dos Santos
[chair] Abstain


**GNSO Council**



There are four (4) vacant council positions. Please select no more than 4 candidates; you may abstain from selecting a candidate if you wish, but you may only vote for 4 individuals.

Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
[Council1] David Cake
[Council1] Abstain

Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
[Council2] Juan Manuel Rojas
[Council2] Abstain
Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
[Council3] Julf Helsingius
[Council3] Abstain

Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
[Council4] Stephanie Perrin
[Council4] Abstain
Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
[Council5] Tomslin Samme-Nlar
[Council5] Abstain

Mark ONLY one box with a tick for the position below:
[Council6] Widsom Donkor
[Council6] Abstain


NOTES

1. There are four (4) GNSO Council seats; three (3), 2-year terms and one (1), 1-year term. This means that the candidate with the lowest number of votes amongst the top 4 candidates, will serve a 1-year term and the top three (3) candidates with the most votes, will each serve a 2-year term.

2. You can change your vote until the deadline on 17 June, 23:59 UTC. Only the last selection will be counted.

3. There are four (4) vacant council positions. Please select no more than 4 candidates; you may abstain from selecting a candidate if you wish, but you may only vote for 4 individuals.
4. You will receive several reminders during the election with the same link to your ballot. The weight of your vote is indicated in the ballot (1 for individual, 2 for small organization and 4 for large organization).



Many thanks,
--

Maryam Bakoshi | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
ICANN | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
S: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | T: +44 7846 471777




_______________________________________________

NCSG-EC mailing list

NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>

https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec [lists.ncsg.is]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.ncsg.is_mailman_listinfo_ncsg-2Dec&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WONIFldd99BWpZRdhnmXqCVhG5Wbhyc4nXMMcemnqG8&s=gw8ORZLdVIKalcc-Ow6KoKOzMzLbd7GZxsbviJNZY9w&e=>
_______________________________________________
NCSG-EC mailing list
NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec [lists.ncsg.is]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.ncsg.is_mailman_listinfo_ncsg-2Dec&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WONIFldd99BWpZRdhnmXqCVhG5Wbhyc4nXMMcemnqG8&s=gw8ORZLdVIKalcc-Ow6KoKOzMzLbd7GZxsbviJNZY9w&e=>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200601/7ad23036/attachment.htm>

From robin at ipjustice.org  Mon Jun  1 20:21:17 2020
From: robin at ipjustice.org (Robin Gross)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 10:21:17 -0700
Subject: [NCSG-EC] clarifications on election
Message-ID: <9B1664ED-C960-4B79-9500-EC25A28CFF4B@ipjustice.org>

EC Members:

I?d like to send the following message to the discuss list to help set expectations regarding this election.  Please let me know if you object before 12:00 PT today because I will send it then in keeping with our election timetable.  Thanks for your quick response!

Best,
Robin
==========

NCSG Members:

I want to clarify a few issues in advance regarding the current NCSG election. 

1.  We have 4 GNSO Council seats up for election.  The top 3 vote getters will receive a two-year term.  The 4th place vote getter will only be for a one-year term because it is filling a seat mid-term.  This is subject to paragraph 2 below.

2.  Regarding the gender diversity rule for the GNSO Council, the NCSG Charter provides that ?in no circumstance should there be fewer than two members of any gender.?  As Tatiana is presently our only continuing female member, Stephanie will automatically be elected to the GNSO Council regardless of how many votes she receives because we are required to have at least two female Council members under our charter.  So the gender rule, trumps the number of votes earned in terms of winning a seat.  This means that Stephanie + the top 3 vote getters from the other candidates will be elected to Council.

3.  Our regional diversity rules should not be a factor in this election, however, because no more than two members would be declared resident of the same geographic region.

From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Mon Jun  1 20:51:18 2020
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 13:51:18 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] clarifications on election
In-Reply-To: <9B1664ED-C960-4B79-9500-EC25A28CFF4B@ipjustice.org>
References: <9B1664ED-C960-4B79-9500-EC25A28CFF4B@ipjustice.org>
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-o73poWqqFesZ_Gx859iYjFRaCwKAO0siNG=8uCDFDe_Q@mail.gmail.com>

Yes sounds all good, and thanks a lot for volunteering language :)

On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 1:21 PM Robin Gross via NCSG-EC <
ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:

> EC Members:
>
> I?d like to send the following message to the discuss list to help set
> expectations regarding this election.  Please let me know if you object
> before 12:00 PT today because I will send it then in keeping with our
> election timetable.  Thanks for your quick response!
>
> Best,
> Robin
> ==========
>
> NCSG Members:
>
> I want to clarify a few issues in advance regarding the current NCSG
> election.
>
> 1.  We have 4 GNSO Council seats up for election.  The top 3 vote getters
> will receive a two-year term.  The 4th place vote getter will only be for a
> one-year term because it is filling a seat mid-term.  This is subject to
> paragraph 2 below.
>
> 2.  Regarding the gender diversity rule for the GNSO Council, the NCSG
> Charter provides that ?in no circumstance should there be fewer than two
> members of any gender.?  As Tatiana is presently our only continuing female
> member, Stephanie will automatically be elected to the GNSO Council
> regardless of how many votes she receives because we are required to have
> at least two female Council members under our charter.  So the gender rule,
> trumps the number of votes earned in terms of winning a seat.  This means
> that Stephanie + the top 3 vote getters from the other candidates will be
> elected to Council.
>
> 3.  Our regional diversity rules should not be a factor in this election,
> however, because no more than two members would be declared resident of the
> same geographic region.
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200601/67bdd4a9/attachment.htm>

From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Tue Jun  2 01:06:07 2020
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 18:06:07 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] clarifications on election
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-o73poWqqFesZ_Gx859iYjFRaCwKAO0siNG=8uCDFDe_Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9B1664ED-C960-4B79-9500-EC25A28CFF4B@ipjustice.org>
 <CAPZSw-o73poWqqFesZ_Gx859iYjFRaCwKAO0siNG=8uCDFDe_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-oSqZfO-imeT0JxopF=DT860NY9YSE3X_-TV2Zn2Fcm8g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I'm afraid some "dissent" might catch on and snowball. I'm not totally
convinced of the wisdom of replying at this point though, so open to
any suggestion.

But what I could foresee in terms of language:

"Dear +++,

The basis for the rules we follow regarding elections to the GNSO can be
found in Art. 3.1. of the Charter. We have been using this system since
+++. You may disagree with it; there is indeed some rigidity to it. You are
also free to voice your disagreement.

While elections are often a time where procedural debates arise, we would
however encourage discussions about changes to our electoral system for the
GNSO Council positions to take place outside the electoral period. The
reason for this is that a change to this electoral process would require a
Charter amendment, in line with the rules at Art. 5 of said Charter.

You can find the most recent version of the Charter here:
https://gnso.icann.org/sites/default/files/filefield_25801/ncsg-charter-05may11-en.pdf

Thank you for your understanding and continued engagement,"

On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 1:51 PM Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <
rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes sounds all good, and thanks a lot for volunteering language :)
>
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 1:21 PM Robin Gross via NCSG-EC <
> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>
>> EC Members:
>>
>> I?d like to send the following message to the discuss list to help set
>> expectations regarding this election.  Please let me know if you object
>> before 12:00 PT today because I will send it then in keeping with our
>> election timetable.  Thanks for your quick response!
>>
>> Best,
>> Robin
>> ==========
>>
>> NCSG Members:
>>
>> I want to clarify a few issues in advance regarding the current NCSG
>> election.
>>
>> 1.  We have 4 GNSO Council seats up for election.  The top 3 vote getters
>> will receive a two-year term.  The 4th place vote getter will only be for a
>> one-year term because it is filling a seat mid-term.  This is subject to
>> paragraph 2 below.
>>
>> 2.  Regarding the gender diversity rule for the GNSO Council, the NCSG
>> Charter provides that ?in no circumstance should there be fewer than two
>> members of any gender.?  As Tatiana is presently our only continuing female
>> member, Stephanie will automatically be elected to the GNSO Council
>> regardless of how many votes she receives because we are required to have
>> at least two female Council members under our charter.  So the gender rule,
>> trumps the number of votes earned in terms of winning a seat.  This means
>> that Stephanie + the top 3 vote getters from the other candidates will be
>> elected to Council.
>>
>> 3.  Our regional diversity rules should not be a factor in this election,
>> however, because no more than two members would be declared resident of the
>> same geographic region.
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200601/adfb12ff/attachment.htm>

From robin at ipjustice.org  Tue Jun  2 01:15:34 2020
From: robin at ipjustice.org (Robin Gross)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 15:15:34 -0700
Subject: [NCSG-EC] clarifications on election
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-oSqZfO-imeT0JxopF=DT860NY9YSE3X_-TV2Zn2Fcm8g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9B1664ED-C960-4B79-9500-EC25A28CFF4B@ipjustice.org>
 <CAPZSw-o73poWqqFesZ_Gx859iYjFRaCwKAO0siNG=8uCDFDe_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPZSw-oSqZfO-imeT0JxopF=DT860NY9YSE3X_-TV2Zn2Fcm8g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <350A5D85-DDF5-47FD-B80D-9EFD165E6791@ipjustice.org>

Raphael,

Thanks for drafting this below.  It is a NCSG rule that we have followed since the charter?s initial adoption in 2011.  A few years ago, we were worried we wouldn?t have enough male candidates to meet the requirement.  This year, we almost lacked enough female candidates, but thanks to Stephanie we can meet our charter requirement.    

Best,
Robin

> On Jun 1, 2020, at 3:06 PM, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm afraid some "dissent" might catch on and snowball. I'm not totally convinced of the wisdom of replying at this point though, so open to any suggestion.
> 
> But what I could foresee in terms of language: 
> 
> "Dear +++,
> 
> The basis for the rules we follow regarding elections to the GNSO can be found in Art. 3.1. of the Charter. We have been using this system since +++. You may disagree with it; there is indeed some rigidity to it. You are also free to voice your disagreement.
> 
> While elections are often a time where procedural debates arise, we would however encourage discussions about changes to our electoral system for the GNSO Council positions to take place outside the electoral period. The reason for this is that a change to this electoral process would require a Charter amendment, in line with the rules at Art. 5 of said Charter.
> 
> You can find the most recent version of the Charter here: https://gnso.icann.org/sites/default/files/filefield_25801/ncsg-charter-05may11-en.pdf <https://gnso.icann.org/sites/default/files/filefield_25801/ncsg-charter-05may11-en.pdf>
> 
> Thank you for your understanding and continued engagement,"
> 
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 1:51 PM Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com <mailto:rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Yes sounds all good, and thanks a lot for volunteering language :) 
> 
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 1:21 PM Robin Gross via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
> EC Members:
> 
> I?d like to send the following message to the discuss list to help set expectations regarding this election.  Please let me know if you object before 12:00 PT today because I will send it then in keeping with our election timetable.  Thanks for your quick response!
> 
> Best,
> Robin
> ==========
> 
> NCSG Members:
> 
> I want to clarify a few issues in advance regarding the current NCSG election. 
> 
> 1.  We have 4 GNSO Council seats up for election.  The top 3 vote getters will receive a two-year term.  The 4th place vote getter will only be for a one-year term because it is filling a seat mid-term.  This is subject to paragraph 2 below.
> 
> 2.  Regarding the gender diversity rule for the GNSO Council, the NCSG Charter provides that ?in no circumstance should there be fewer than two members of any gender.?  As Tatiana is presently our only continuing female member, Stephanie will automatically be elected to the GNSO Council regardless of how many votes she receives because we are required to have at least two female Council members under our charter.  So the gender rule, trumps the number of votes earned in terms of winning a seat.  This means that Stephanie + the top 3 vote getters from the other candidates will be elected to Council.
> 
> 3.  Our regional diversity rules should not be a factor in this election, however, because no more than two members would be declared resident of the same geographic region.
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200601/00357a10/attachment.htm>

From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Tue Jun  2 03:25:37 2020
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 20:25:37 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] clarifications on election
In-Reply-To: <350A5D85-DDF5-47FD-B80D-9EFD165E6791@ipjustice.org>
References: <9B1664ED-C960-4B79-9500-EC25A28CFF4B@ipjustice.org>
 <CAPZSw-o73poWqqFesZ_Gx859iYjFRaCwKAO0siNG=8uCDFDe_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPZSw-oSqZfO-imeT0JxopF=DT860NY9YSE3X_-TV2Zn2Fcm8g@mail.gmail.com>
 <350A5D85-DDF5-47FD-B80D-9EFD165E6791@ipjustice.org>
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-rjuiuKt9qfFcCdPTwVoPz91Vioo0xJowdEtGjiJ97Y-g@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for jumping in Robin, and thank you for the info!

On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 6:15 PM Robin Gross <robin at ipjustice.org> wrote:

> Raphael,
>
> Thanks for drafting this below.  It is a NCSG rule that we have followed
> since the charter?s initial adoption in 2011.  A few years ago, we were
> worried we wouldn?t have enough male candidates to meet the requirement.
> This year, we almost lacked enough female candidates, but thanks to
> Stephanie we can meet our charter requirement.
>
> Best,
> Robin
>
> On Jun 1, 2020, at 3:06 PM, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <
> rbeauregardlacroix at GMAIL.COM <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm afraid some "dissent" might catch on and snowball. I'm not totally
> convinced of the wisdom of replying at this point though, so open to
> any suggestion.
>
> But what I could foresee in terms of language:
>
> "Dear +++,
>
> The basis for the rules we follow regarding elections to the GNSO can be
> found in Art. 3.1. of the Charter. We have been using this system since
> +++. You may disagree with it; there is indeed some rigidity to it. You are
> also free to voice your disagreement.
>
> While elections are often a time where procedural debates arise, we would
> however encourage discussions about changes to our electoral system for the
> GNSO Council positions to take place outside the electoral period. The
> reason for this is that a change to this electoral process would require a
> Charter amendment, in line with the rules at Art. 5 of said Charter.
>
> You can find the most recent version of the Charter here:
> https://gnso.icann.org/sites/default/files/filefield_25801/ncsg-charter-05may11-en.pdf
>
> Thank you for your understanding and continued engagement,"
>
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 1:51 PM Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <
> rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes sounds all good, and thanks a lot for volunteering language :)
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 1:21 PM Robin Gross via NCSG-EC <
>> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>
>>> EC Members:
>>>
>>> I?d like to send the following message to the discuss list to help set
>>> expectations regarding this election.  Please let me know if you object
>>> before 12:00 PT today because I will send it then in keeping with our
>>> election timetable.  Thanks for your quick response!
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Robin
>>> ==========
>>>
>>> NCSG Members:
>>>
>>> I want to clarify a few issues in advance regarding the current NCSG
>>> election.
>>>
>>> 1.  We have 4 GNSO Council seats up for election.  The top 3 vote
>>> getters will receive a two-year term.  The 4th place vote getter will only
>>> be for a one-year term because it is filling a seat mid-term.  This is
>>> subject to paragraph 2 below.
>>>
>>> 2.  Regarding the gender diversity rule for the GNSO Council, the NCSG
>>> Charter provides that ?in no circumstance should there be fewer than two
>>> members of any gender.?  As Tatiana is presently our only continuing female
>>> member, Stephanie will automatically be elected to the GNSO Council
>>> regardless of how many votes she receives because we are required to have
>>> at least two female Council members under our charter.  So the gender rule,
>>> trumps the number of votes earned in terms of winning a seat.  This means
>>> that Stephanie + the top 3 vote getters from the other candidates will be
>>> elected to Council.
>>>
>>> 3.  Our regional diversity rules should not be a factor in this
>>> election, however, because no more than two members would be declared
>>> resident of the same geographic region.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200601/2c3fa8a8/attachment.htm>

From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Tue Jun  2 03:47:29 2020
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (U Of T)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 20:47:29 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] clarifications on election
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-rjuiuKt9qfFcCdPTwVoPz91Vioo0xJowdEtGjiJ97Y-g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPZSw-rjuiuKt9qfFcCdPTwVoPz91Vioo0xJowdEtGjiJ97Y-g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1EF768E6-7679-4192-99E3-57A400C2B08B@mail.utoronto.ca>

I think those are great responses.  Are you going to ignore the transgender bit?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 1, 2020, at 20:26, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Thanks for jumping in Robin, and thank you for the info!
> 
>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 6:15 PM Robin Gross <robin at ipjustice.org> wrote:
>> Raphael,
>> 
>> Thanks for drafting this below.  It is a NCSG rule that we have followed since the charter?s initial adoption in 2011.  A few years ago, we were worried we wouldn?t have enough male candidates to meet the requirement.  This year, we almost lacked enough female candidates, but thanks to Stephanie we can meet our charter requirement.    
>> 
>> Best,
>> Robin
>> 
>>> On Jun 1, 2020, at 3:06 PM, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I'm afraid some "dissent" might catch on and snowball. I'm not totally convinced of the wisdom of replying at this point though, so open to any suggestion.
>>> 
>>> But what I could foresee in terms of language: 
>>> 
>>> "Dear +++,
>>> 
>>> The basis for the rules we follow regarding elections to the GNSO can be found in Art. 3.1. of the Charter. We have been using this system since +++. You may disagree with it; there is indeed some rigidity to it. You are also free to voice your disagreement.
>>> 
>>> While elections are often a time where procedural debates arise, we would however encourage discussions about changes to our electoral system for the GNSO Council positions to take place outside the electoral period. The reason for this is that a change to this electoral process would require a Charter amendment, in line with the rules at Art. 5 of said Charter.
>>> 
>>> You can find the most recent version of the Charter here: https://gnso.icann.org/sites/default/files/filefield_25801/ncsg-charter-05may11-en.pdf
>>> 
>>> Thank you for your understanding and continued engagement,"
>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 1:51 PM Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Yes sounds all good, and thanks a lot for volunteering language :) 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 1:21 PM Robin Gross via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>>>> EC Members:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I?d like to send the following message to the discuss list to help set expectations regarding this election.  Please let me know if you object before 12:00 PT today because I will send it then in keeping with our election timetable.  Thanks for your quick response!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Robin
>>>>> ==========
>>>>> 
>>>>> NCSG Members:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I want to clarify a few issues in advance regarding the current NCSG election. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 1.  We have 4 GNSO Council seats up for election.  The top 3 vote getters will receive a two-year term.  The 4th place vote getter will only be for a one-year term because it is filling a seat mid-term.  This is subject to paragraph 2 below.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 2.  Regarding the gender diversity rule for the GNSO Council, the NCSG Charter provides that ?in no circumstance should there be fewer than two members of any gender.?  As Tatiana is presently our only continuing female member, Stephanie will automatically be elected to the GNSO Council regardless of how many votes she receives because we are required to have at least two female Council members under our charter.  So the gender rule, trumps the number of votes earned in terms of winning a seat.  This means that Stephanie + the top 3 vote getters from the other candidates will be elected to Council.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 3.  Our regional diversity rules should not be a factor in this election, however, because no more than two members would be declared resident of the same geographic region.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200601/8add95da/attachment.htm>

From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Tue Jun  2 03:59:06 2020
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (U Of T)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 20:59:06 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] clarifications on election
In-Reply-To: <1EF768E6-7679-4192-99E3-57A400C2B08B@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <1EF768E6-7679-4192-99E3-57A400C2B08B@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <A6ABCF4A-E01A-47F3-8460-B454F767F0B6@mail.utoronto.ca>

Incidently, i unfortunately will not be able to attend the meeting tomorrow as i have a client conference that was booked months ago.  I will keep an eye on skype, and if there is an emergency, please send me a ping and i will break away.
Very sorry but this was unexpected.  So was the stupid EPDP meeting also on tomorrow. 
Someone may wish to point out to these folks that my announcements if the election contained links to the relevant chunk of the Charter.   Good idea to read the message.
Cheers Steph

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 1, 2020, at 20:48, U Of T <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
> 
> ?I think those are great responses.  Are you going to ignore the transgender bit?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Jun 1, 2020, at 20:26, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> Thanks for jumping in Robin, and thank you for the info!
>> 
>>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 6:15 PM Robin Gross <robin at ipjustice.org> wrote:
>>> Raphael,
>>> 
>>> Thanks for drafting this below.  It is a NCSG rule that we have followed since the charter?s initial adoption in 2011.  A few years ago, we were worried we wouldn?t have enough male candidates to meet the requirement.  This year, we almost lacked enough female candidates, but thanks to Stephanie we can meet our charter requirement.    
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Robin
>>> 
>>>> On Jun 1, 2020, at 3:06 PM, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> 
>>>> I'm afraid some "dissent" might catch on and snowball. I'm not totally convinced of the wisdom of replying at this point though, so open to any suggestion.
>>>> 
>>>> But what I could foresee in terms of language: 
>>>> 
>>>> "Dear +++,
>>>> 
>>>> The basis for the rules we follow regarding elections to the GNSO can be found in Art. 3.1. of the Charter. We have been using this system since +++. You may disagree with it; there is indeed some rigidity to it. You are also free to voice your disagreement.
>>>> 
>>>> While elections are often a time where procedural debates arise, we would however encourage discussions about changes to our electoral system for the GNSO Council positions to take place outside the electoral period. The reason for this is that a change to this electoral process would require a Charter amendment, in line with the rules at Art. 5 of said Charter.
>>>> 
>>>> You can find the most recent version of the Charter here: https://gnso.icann.org/sites/default/files/filefield_25801/ncsg-charter-05may11-en.pdf
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you for your understanding and continued engagement,"
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 1:51 PM Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Yes sounds all good, and thanks a lot for volunteering language :) 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 1:21 PM Robin Gross via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>>>>> EC Members:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I?d like to send the following message to the discuss list to help set expectations regarding this election.  Please let me know if you object before 12:00 PT today because I will send it then in keeping with our election timetable.  Thanks for your quick response!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Robin
>>>>>> ==========
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> NCSG Members:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I want to clarify a few issues in advance regarding the current NCSG election. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 1.  We have 4 GNSO Council seats up for election.  The top 3 vote getters will receive a two-year term.  The 4th place vote getter will only be for a one-year term because it is filling a seat mid-term.  This is subject to paragraph 2 below.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 2.  Regarding the gender diversity rule for the GNSO Council, the NCSG Charter provides that ?in no circumstance should there be fewer than two members of any gender.?  As Tatiana is presently our only continuing female member, Stephanie will automatically be elected to the GNSO Council regardless of how many votes she receives because we are required to have at least two female Council members under our charter.  So the gender rule, trumps the number of votes earned in terms of winning a seat.  This means that Stephanie + the top 3 vote getters from the other candidates will be elected to Council.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 3.  Our regional diversity rules should not be a factor in this election, however, because no more than two members would be declared resident of the same geographic region.
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200601/e9a88cec/attachment.htm>

From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Tue Jun  2 06:44:12 2020
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 23:44:12 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] clarifications on election
In-Reply-To: <A6ABCF4A-E01A-47F3-8460-B454F767F0B6@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <1EF768E6-7679-4192-99E3-57A400C2B08B@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <A6ABCF4A-E01A-47F3-8460-B454F767F0B6@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-oB=6AADpObUbg7X1JhceW64z-+qjwRa5CUO_b+NdsUGw@mail.gmail.com>

Have you made arrangements re chairing the meeting? Do you want/Is one of
us to take care of it, or is it Maryam that usually does in those cases?

On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 11:21 PM U Of T <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>
wrote:

> Incidently, i unfortunately will not be able to attend the meeting
> tomorrow as i have a client conference that was booked months ago.  I will
> keep an eye on skype, and if there is an emergency, please send me a ping
> and i will break away.
> Very sorry but this was unexpected.  So was the stupid EPDP meeting also
> on tomorrow.
> Someone may wish to point out to these folks that my announcements if the
> election contained links to the relevant chunk of the Charter.   Good idea
> to read the message.
> Cheers Steph
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 1, 2020, at 20:48, U Of T <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>
> wrote:
>
> ?I think those are great responses.  Are you going to ignore the
> transgender bit?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 1, 2020, at 20:26, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC <
> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>
> ?
> Thanks for jumping in Robin, and thank you for the info!
>
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 6:15 PM Robin Gross <robin at ipjustice.org> wrote:
>
>> Raphael,
>>
>> Thanks for drafting this below.  It is a NCSG rule that we have followed
>> since the charter?s initial adoption in 2011.  A few years ago, we were
>> worried we wouldn?t have enough male candidates to meet the requirement.
>> This year, we almost lacked enough female candidates, but thanks to
>> Stephanie we can meet our charter requirement.
>>
>> Best,
>> Robin
>>
>> On Jun 1, 2020, at 3:06 PM, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <
>> rbeauregardlacroix at GMAIL.COM <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm afraid some "dissent" might catch on and snowball. I'm not totally
>> convinced of the wisdom of replying at this point though, so open to
>> any suggestion.
>>
>> But what I could foresee in terms of language:
>>
>> "Dear +++,
>>
>> The basis for the rules we follow regarding elections to the GNSO can be
>> found in Art. 3.1. of the Charter. We have been using this system since
>> +++. You may disagree with it; there is indeed some rigidity to it. You are
>> also free to voice your disagreement.
>>
>> While elections are often a time where procedural debates arise, we would
>> however encourage discussions about changes to our electoral system for the
>> GNSO Council positions to take place outside the electoral period. The
>> reason for this is that a change to this electoral process would require a
>> Charter amendment, in line with the rules at Art. 5 of said Charter.
>>
>> You can find the most recent version of the Charter here:
>> https://gnso.icann.org/sites/default/files/filefield_25801/ncsg-charter-05may11-en.pdf
>>
>> Thank you for your understanding and continued engagement,"
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 1:51 PM Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <
>> rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes sounds all good, and thanks a lot for volunteering language :)
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 1:21 PM Robin Gross via NCSG-EC <
>>> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>>
>>>> EC Members:
>>>>
>>>> I?d like to send the following message to the discuss list to help set
>>>> expectations regarding this election.  Please let me know if you object
>>>> before 12:00 PT today because I will send it then in keeping with our
>>>> election timetable.  Thanks for your quick response!
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Robin
>>>> ==========
>>>>
>>>> NCSG Members:
>>>>
>>>> I want to clarify a few issues in advance regarding the current NCSG
>>>> election.
>>>>
>>>> 1.  We have 4 GNSO Council seats up for election.  The top 3 vote
>>>> getters will receive a two-year term.  The 4th place vote getter will only
>>>> be for a one-year term because it is filling a seat mid-term.  This is
>>>> subject to paragraph 2 below.
>>>>
>>>> 2.  Regarding the gender diversity rule for the GNSO Council, the NCSG
>>>> Charter provides that ?in no circumstance should there be fewer than two
>>>> members of any gender.?  As Tatiana is presently our only continuing female
>>>> member, Stephanie will automatically be elected to the GNSO Council
>>>> regardless of how many votes she receives because we are required to have
>>>> at least two female Council members under our charter.  So the gender rule,
>>>> trumps the number of votes earned in terms of winning a seat.  This means
>>>> that Stephanie + the top 3 vote getters from the other candidates will be
>>>> elected to Council.
>>>>
>>>> 3.  Our regional diversity rules should not be a factor in this
>>>> election, however, because no more than two members would be declared
>>>> resident of the same geographic region.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200601/dd7acf99/attachment.htm>

From plommer at gmail.com  Tue Jun  2 15:06:15 2020
From: plommer at gmail.com (Raoul Plommer)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 15:06:15 +0300
Subject: [NCSG-EC] clarifications on election
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-oB=6AADpObUbg7X1JhceW64z-+qjwRa5CUO_b+NdsUGw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1EF768E6-7679-4192-99E3-57A400C2B08B@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <A6ABCF4A-E01A-47F3-8460-B454F767F0B6@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAPZSw-oB=6AADpObUbg7X1JhceW64z-+qjwRa5CUO_b+NdsUGw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADirp9Tzg_zsyFAptwrU5FJNJz5wNS+Wo1X1tSV4ZKvYZ65EPw@mail.gmail.com>

The "transgender bit" is actually seriously hard to formulate, if we want
to make sure we have at least two males and females in the council, without
excluding the third gender. There is no way we could always (if ever)
attract two transgender people on board. I can't come up with language that
clears all the hurdles, at least not the top of my head. I think it'd be
unwise to ignore this completely though. Could encourage anyone to start
the process on better language on of the charter, but like it was already
said, the elections aren't really the best time for it.

-Raoul

On Tue, 2 Jun 2020 at 06:45, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC <
ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:

> Have you made arrangements re chairing the meeting? Do you want/Is one of
> us to take care of it, or is it Maryam that usually does in those cases?
>
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 11:21 PM U Of T <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>
> wrote:
>
>> Incidently, i unfortunately will not be able to attend the meeting
>> tomorrow as i have a client conference that was booked months ago.  I will
>> keep an eye on skype, and if there is an emergency, please send me a ping
>> and i will break away.
>> Very sorry but this was unexpected.  So was the stupid EPDP meeting also
>> on tomorrow.
>> Someone may wish to point out to these folks that my announcements if the
>> election contained links to the relevant chunk of the Charter.   Good idea
>> to read the message.
>> Cheers Steph
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jun 1, 2020, at 20:48, U Of T <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>> ?I think those are great responses.  Are you going to ignore the
>> transgender bit?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jun 1, 2020, at 20:26, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC <
>> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> Thanks for jumping in Robin, and thank you for the info!
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 6:15 PM Robin Gross <robin at ipjustice.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Raphael,
>>>
>>> Thanks for drafting this below.  It is a NCSG rule that we have followed
>>> since the charter?s initial adoption in 2011.  A few years ago, we were
>>> worried we wouldn?t have enough male candidates to meet the requirement.
>>> This year, we almost lacked enough female candidates, but thanks to
>>> Stephanie we can meet our charter requirement.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Robin
>>>
>>> On Jun 1, 2020, at 3:06 PM, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <
>>> rbeauregardlacroix at GMAIL.COM <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I'm afraid some "dissent" might catch on and snowball. I'm not totally
>>> convinced of the wisdom of replying at this point though, so open to
>>> any suggestion.
>>>
>>> But what I could foresee in terms of language:
>>>
>>> "Dear +++,
>>>
>>> The basis for the rules we follow regarding elections to the GNSO can be
>>> found in Art. 3.1. of the Charter. We have been using this system since
>>> +++. You may disagree with it; there is indeed some rigidity to it. You are
>>> also free to voice your disagreement.
>>>
>>> While elections are often a time where procedural debates arise, we
>>> would however encourage discussions about changes to our electoral system
>>> for the GNSO Council positions to take place outside the electoral period.
>>> The reason for this is that a change to this electoral process would
>>> require a Charter amendment, in line with the rules at Art. 5 of said
>>> Charter.
>>>
>>> You can find the most recent version of the Charter here:
>>> https://gnso.icann.org/sites/default/files/filefield_25801/ncsg-charter-05may11-en.pdf
>>>
>>> Thank you for your understanding and continued engagement,"
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 1:51 PM Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <
>>> rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes sounds all good, and thanks a lot for volunteering language :)
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 1:21 PM Robin Gross via NCSG-EC <
>>>> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> EC Members:
>>>>>
>>>>> I?d like to send the following message to the discuss list to help set
>>>>> expectations regarding this election.  Please let me know if you object
>>>>> before 12:00 PT today because I will send it then in keeping with our
>>>>> election timetable.  Thanks for your quick response!
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Robin
>>>>> ==========
>>>>>
>>>>> NCSG Members:
>>>>>
>>>>> I want to clarify a few issues in advance regarding the current NCSG
>>>>> election.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1.  We have 4 GNSO Council seats up for election.  The top 3 vote
>>>>> getters will receive a two-year term.  The 4th place vote getter will only
>>>>> be for a one-year term because it is filling a seat mid-term.  This is
>>>>> subject to paragraph 2 below.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2.  Regarding the gender diversity rule for the GNSO Council, the NCSG
>>>>> Charter provides that ?in no circumstance should there be fewer than two
>>>>> members of any gender.?  As Tatiana is presently our only continuing female
>>>>> member, Stephanie will automatically be elected to the GNSO Council
>>>>> regardless of how many votes she receives because we are required to have
>>>>> at least two female Council members under our charter.  So the gender rule,
>>>>> trumps the number of votes earned in terms of winning a seat.  This means
>>>>> that Stephanie + the top 3 vote getters from the other candidates will be
>>>>> elected to Council.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3.  Our regional diversity rules should not be a factor in this
>>>>> election, however, because no more than two members would be declared
>>>>> resident of the same geographic region.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>
>> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200602/9629a101/attachment.htm>

From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Tue Jun  2 15:38:22 2020
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 08:38:22 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] clarifications on election
In-Reply-To: <CADirp9Tzg_zsyFAptwrU5FJNJz5wNS+Wo1X1tSV4ZKvYZ65EPw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1EF768E6-7679-4192-99E3-57A400C2B08B@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <A6ABCF4A-E01A-47F3-8460-B454F767F0B6@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAPZSw-oB=6AADpObUbg7X1JhceW64z-+qjwRa5CUO_b+NdsUGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADirp9Tzg_zsyFAptwrU5FJNJz5wNS+Wo1X1tSV4ZKvYZ65EPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-pyCd6C-Y2g34Or2Ly5KniWBUv6NWvCXpV565eMe9BNfg@mail.gmail.com>

Well the way the language is formulated, it says no more than a single
gender - however many genders there are. I think it actually avoids
the problem of affirmatively representing gender(s).

But as you said Raoul, now is not the best time to stir the pot. So lets
let it rest. If it pops again, we'll see.

Have a nice day,

On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 8:07 AM Raoul Plommer via NCSG-EC <
ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:

> The "transgender bit" is actually seriously hard to formulate, if we want
> to make sure we have at least two males and females in the council, without
> excluding the third gender. There is no way we could always (if ever)
> attract two transgender people on board. I can't come up with language that
> clears all the hurdles, at least not the top of my head. I think it'd be
> unwise to ignore this completely though. Could encourage anyone to start
> the process on better language on of the charter, but like it was already
> said, the elections aren't really the best time for it.
>
> -Raoul
>
> On Tue, 2 Jun 2020 at 06:45, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC <
> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>
>> Have you made arrangements re chairing the meeting? Do you want/Is one of
>> us to take care of it, or is it Maryam that usually does in those cases?
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 11:21 PM U Of T <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Incidently, i unfortunately will not be able to attend the meeting
>>> tomorrow as i have a client conference that was booked months ago.  I will
>>> keep an eye on skype, and if there is an emergency, please send me a ping
>>> and i will break away.
>>> Very sorry but this was unexpected.  So was the stupid EPDP meeting also
>>> on tomorrow.
>>> Someone may wish to point out to these folks that my announcements if
>>> the election contained links to the relevant chunk of the Charter.   Good
>>> idea to read the message.
>>> Cheers Steph
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jun 1, 2020, at 20:48, U Of T <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?I think those are great responses.  Are you going to ignore the
>>> transgender bit?
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jun 1, 2020, at 20:26, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC <
>>> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?
>>> Thanks for jumping in Robin, and thank you for the info!
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 6:15 PM Robin Gross <robin at ipjustice.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Raphael,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for drafting this below.  It is a NCSG rule that we have
>>>> followed since the charter?s initial adoption in 2011.  A few years ago, we
>>>> were worried we wouldn?t have enough male candidates to meet the
>>>> requirement.  This year, we almost lacked enough female candidates, but
>>>> thanks to Stephanie we can meet our charter requirement.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Robin
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 1, 2020, at 3:06 PM, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <
>>>> rbeauregardlacroix at GMAIL.COM <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I'm afraid some "dissent" might catch on and snowball. I'm not totally
>>>> convinced of the wisdom of replying at this point though, so open to
>>>> any suggestion.
>>>>
>>>> But what I could foresee in terms of language:
>>>>
>>>> "Dear +++,
>>>>
>>>> The basis for the rules we follow regarding elections to the GNSO can
>>>> be found in Art. 3.1. of the Charter. We have been using this system since
>>>> +++. You may disagree with it; there is indeed some rigidity to it. You are
>>>> also free to voice your disagreement.
>>>>
>>>> While elections are often a time where procedural debates arise, we
>>>> would however encourage discussions about changes to our electoral system
>>>> for the GNSO Council positions to take place outside the electoral period.
>>>> The reason for this is that a change to this electoral process would
>>>> require a Charter amendment, in line with the rules at Art. 5 of said
>>>> Charter.
>>>>
>>>> You can find the most recent version of the Charter here:
>>>> https://gnso.icann.org/sites/default/files/filefield_25801/ncsg-charter-05may11-en.pdf
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for your understanding and continued engagement,"
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 1:51 PM Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <
>>>> rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes sounds all good, and thanks a lot for volunteering language :)
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 1:21 PM Robin Gross via NCSG-EC <
>>>>> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> EC Members:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I?d like to send the following message to the discuss list to help
>>>>>> set expectations regarding this election.  Please let me know if you object
>>>>>> before 12:00 PT today because I will send it then in keeping with our
>>>>>> election timetable.  Thanks for your quick response!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Robin
>>>>>> ==========
>>>>>>
>>>>>> NCSG Members:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I want to clarify a few issues in advance regarding the current NCSG
>>>>>> election.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1.  We have 4 GNSO Council seats up for election.  The top 3 vote
>>>>>> getters will receive a two-year term.  The 4th place vote getter will only
>>>>>> be for a one-year term because it is filling a seat mid-term.  This is
>>>>>> subject to paragraph 2 below.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2.  Regarding the gender diversity rule for the GNSO Council, the
>>>>>> NCSG Charter provides that ?in no circumstance should there be fewer than
>>>>>> two members of any gender.?  As Tatiana is presently our only continuing
>>>>>> female member, Stephanie will automatically be elected to the GNSO Council
>>>>>> regardless of how many votes she receives because we are required to have
>>>>>> at least two female Council members under our charter.  So the gender rule,
>>>>>> trumps the number of votes earned in terms of winning a seat.  This means
>>>>>> that Stephanie + the top 3 vote getters from the other candidates will be
>>>>>> elected to Council.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3.  Our regional diversity rules should not be a factor in this
>>>>>> election, however, because no more than two members would be declared
>>>>>> resident of the same geographic region.
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200602/ff1c74be/attachment.htm>

From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Tue Jun  2 16:23:26 2020
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie E Perrin)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 09:23:26 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] clarifications on election
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-oB=6AADpObUbg7X1JhceW64z-+qjwRa5CUO_b+NdsUGw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1EF768E6-7679-4192-99E3-57A400C2B08B@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <A6ABCF4A-E01A-47F3-8460-B454F767F0B6@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAPZSw-oB=6AADpObUbg7X1JhceW64z-+qjwRa5CUO_b+NdsUGw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b69d7b0c-2101-6e78-7598-80093f044b60@mail.utoronto.ca>

I am sorry not to have responded, and thanks for jumping in!

SP

On 2020-06-01 11:44 p.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix wrote:
> Have you made arrangements re chairing the meeting? Do you want/Is one 
> of us to take care of it, or is it Maryam that usually does in those 
> cases?
>
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 11:21 PM U Of T 
> <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca 
> <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>
>     Incidently, i unfortunately will not be able to attend the meeting
>     tomorrow as i have a client conference that was booked months
>     ago.? I will keep an eye on skype, and if there is an emergency,
>     please send me a ping and i will break away.
>     Very sorry but this was unexpected.? So was the stupid EPDP
>     meeting also on tomorrow.
>     Someone may wish to point out to these folks that my announcements
>     if the election contained links to the relevant chunk of the
>     Charter. ? Good idea to read the message.
>     Cheers Steph
>
>     Sent from my iPhone
>
>>     On Jun 1, 2020, at 20:48, U Of T
>>     <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
>>     <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>>
>>     ?I think those are great responses.? Are you going to ignore the
>>     transgender bit?
>>
>>     Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>>     On Jun 1, 2020, at 20:26, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC
>>>     <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     ?
>>>     Thanks for jumping in Robin, and thank you for the info!
>>>
>>>     On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 6:15 PM Robin Gross <robin at ipjustice.org
>>>     <mailto:robin at ipjustice.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         Raphael,
>>>
>>>         Thanks for drafting this below.? It is a NCSG rule that we
>>>         have followed since the charter?s initial adoption in 2011.?
>>>         A few years ago, we were worried we wouldn?t have enough
>>>         male candidates to meet the requirement.? This year, we
>>>         almost lacked enough female candidates, but thanks to
>>>         Stephanie we can meet our charter requirement.
>>>
>>>         Best,
>>>         Robin
>>>
>>>>         On Jun 1, 2020, at 3:06 PM, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix
>>>>         <rbeauregardlacroix at GMAIL.COM
>>>>         <mailto:rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         Hi all,
>>>>
>>>>         I'm afraid some "dissent" might catch on and snowball. I'm
>>>>         not totally convinced of the wisdom of replying at this
>>>>         point though, so open to any?suggestion.
>>>>
>>>>         But what I could foresee in terms of language:
>>>>
>>>>         "Dear +++,
>>>>
>>>>         The basis for the rules we follow regarding elections to
>>>>         the GNSO can be found in Art. 3.1. of the Charter. We have
>>>>         been using this system since +++. You may disagree with it;
>>>>         there is indeed some rigidity to it. You are also free to
>>>>         voice your disagreement.
>>>>
>>>>         While elections are often a time where procedural debates
>>>>         arise, we would however encourage discussions about changes
>>>>         to our electoral system for the GNSO Council positions to
>>>>         take place outside the electoral period. The reason for
>>>>         this is that a change to this electoral process would
>>>>         require a Charter amendment, in line with the rules at Art.
>>>>         5 of said Charter.
>>>>
>>>>         You can find the most recent version of the Charter here:
>>>>         https://gnso.icann.org/sites/default/files/filefield_25801/ncsg-charter-05may11-en.pdf
>>>>
>>>>         Thank you for your understanding and continued engagement,"
>>>>
>>>>         On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 1:51 PM Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix
>>>>         <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com
>>>>         <mailto:rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>             Yes sounds all good, and thanks a lot for volunteering
>>>>             language :)
>>>>
>>>>             On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 1:21 PM Robin Gross via NCSG-EC
>>>>             <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>>
>>>>             wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                 EC Members:
>>>>
>>>>                 I?d like to send the following message to the
>>>>                 discuss list to help set expectations regarding
>>>>                 this election.? Please let me know if you object
>>>>                 before 12:00 PT today because I will send it then
>>>>                 in keeping with our election timetable.? Thanks for
>>>>                 your quick response!
>>>>
>>>>                 Best,
>>>>                 Robin
>>>>                 ==========
>>>>
>>>>                 NCSG Members:
>>>>
>>>>                 I want to clarify a few issues in advance regarding
>>>>                 the current NCSG election.
>>>>
>>>>                 1.? We have 4 GNSO Council seats up for election.?
>>>>                 The top 3 vote getters will receive a two-year
>>>>                 term. The 4th place vote getter will only be for a
>>>>                 one-year term because it is filling a seat
>>>>                 mid-term.? This is subject to paragraph 2 below.
>>>>
>>>>                 2.? Regarding the gender diversity rule for the
>>>>                 GNSO Council, the NCSG Charter provides that ?in no
>>>>                 circumstance should there be fewer than two members
>>>>                 of any gender.?? As Tatiana is presently our only
>>>>                 continuing female member, Stephanie will
>>>>                 automatically be elected to the GNSO Council
>>>>                 regardless of how many votes she receives because
>>>>                 we are required to have at least two female Council
>>>>                 members under our charter.? So the gender rule,
>>>>                 trumps the number of votes earned in terms of
>>>>                 winning a seat.? This means that Stephanie + the
>>>>                 top 3 vote getters from the other candidates will
>>>>                 be elected to Council.
>>>>
>>>>                 3.? Our regional diversity rules should not be a
>>>>                 factor in this election, however, because no more
>>>>                 than two members would be declared resident of the
>>>>                 same geographic region.
>>>>                 _______________________________________________
>>>>                 NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>>                 NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>>                 https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>>
>>>
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>     NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>     https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200602/6147d22c/attachment.htm>

From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Tue Jun  2 17:23:42 2020
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie E Perrin)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 10:23:42 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] clarifications on election
In-Reply-To: <CADirp9Tzg_zsyFAptwrU5FJNJz5wNS+Wo1X1tSV4ZKvYZ65EPw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1EF768E6-7679-4192-99E3-57A400C2B08B@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <A6ABCF4A-E01A-47F3-8460-B454F767F0B6@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAPZSw-oB=6AADpObUbg7X1JhceW64z-+qjwRa5CUO_b+NdsUGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADirp9Tzg_zsyFAptwrU5FJNJz5wNS+Wo1X1tSV4ZKvYZ65EPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e164c8b4-f65e-d6b5-327a-49e240197ba3@mail.utoronto.ca>

yes, I agree.? I think we had a discussion on this matter a while ago.? 
Our problem is that nobody thinks about it between elections.

SP

On 2020-06-02 8:06 a.m., Raoul Plommer via NCSG-EC wrote:
> The "transgender bit" is actually seriously hard to formulate, if we 
> want to make sure we have at least two males and females in the 
> council, without excluding the third gender. There is no way we could 
> always (if ever) attract two transgender people on board. I can't come 
> up with language that clears all the hurdles, at least not the top of 
> my head. I think it'd be unwise to ignore this completely though. 
> Could encourage anyone to start the process on better language on of 
> the charter, but like it was already said, the elections aren't really 
> the best time for it.
>
> -Raoul
>
> On Tue, 2 Jun 2020 at 06:45, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC 
> <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>
>     Have you made arrangements re chairing the meeting? Do you want/Is
>     one of us to take care of it, or is it Maryam that usually does in
>     those cases?
>
>     On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 11:21 PM U Of T
>     <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
>     <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>
>         Incidently, i unfortunately will not be able to attend the
>         meeting tomorrow as i have a client conference that was booked
>         months ago.? I will keep an eye on skype, and if there is an
>         emergency, please send me a ping and i will break away.
>         Very sorry but this was unexpected.? So was the stupid EPDP
>         meeting also on tomorrow.
>         Someone may wish to point out to these folks that my
>         announcements if the election contained links to the relevant
>         chunk of the Charter. ? Good idea to read the message.
>         Cheers Steph
>
>         Sent from my iPhone
>
>>         On Jun 1, 2020, at 20:48, U Of T
>>         <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
>>         <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>>
>>         ?I think those are great responses. Are you going to ignore
>>         the transgender bit?
>>
>>         Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>>         On Jun 1, 2020, at 20:26, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via
>>>         NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is
>>>         <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         ?
>>>         Thanks for jumping in Robin, and thank you for the info!
>>>
>>>         On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 6:15 PM Robin Gross
>>>         <robin at ipjustice.org <mailto:robin at ipjustice.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>             Raphael,
>>>
>>>             Thanks for drafting this below.? It is a NCSG rule that
>>>             we have followed since the charter?s initial adoption in
>>>             2011.? A few years ago, we were worried we wouldn?t have
>>>             enough male candidates to meet the requirement. This
>>>             year, we almost lacked enough female candidates, but
>>>             thanks to Stephanie we can meet our charter requirement.
>>>
>>>             Best,
>>>             Robin
>>>
>>>>             On Jun 1, 2020, at 3:06 PM, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix
>>>>             <rbeauregardlacroix at GMAIL.COM
>>>>             <mailto:rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>             Hi all,
>>>>
>>>>             I'm afraid some "dissent" might catch on and snowball.
>>>>             I'm not totally convinced of the wisdom of replying at
>>>>             this point though, so open to any?suggestion.
>>>>
>>>>             But what I could foresee in terms of language:
>>>>
>>>>             "Dear +++,
>>>>
>>>>             The basis for the rules we follow regarding elections
>>>>             to the GNSO can be found in Art. 3.1. of the Charter.
>>>>             We have been using this system since +++. You may
>>>>             disagree with it; there is indeed some rigidity to it.
>>>>             You are also free to voice your disagreement.
>>>>
>>>>             While elections are often a time where procedural
>>>>             debates arise, we would however encourage discussions
>>>>             about changes to our electoral system for the GNSO
>>>>             Council positions to take place outside the electoral
>>>>             period. The reason for this is that a change to this
>>>>             electoral process would require a Charter amendment, in
>>>>             line with the rules at Art. 5 of said Charter.
>>>>
>>>>             You can find the most recent version of the Charter
>>>>             here:
>>>>             https://gnso.icann.org/sites/default/files/filefield_25801/ncsg-charter-05may11-en.pdf
>>>>
>>>>             Thank you for your understanding and continued engagement,"
>>>>
>>>>             On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 1:51 PM Raphael
>>>>             Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com
>>>>             <mailto:rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                 Yes sounds all good, and thanks a lot for
>>>>                 volunteering language :)
>>>>
>>>>                 On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 1:21 PM Robin Gross via
>>>>                 NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>                 <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                     EC Members:
>>>>
>>>>                     I?d like to send the following message to the
>>>>                     discuss list to help set expectations regarding
>>>>                     this election.? Please let me know if you
>>>>                     object before 12:00 PT today because I will
>>>>                     send it then in keeping with our election
>>>>                     timetable.? Thanks for your quick response!
>>>>
>>>>                     Best,
>>>>                     Robin
>>>>                     ==========
>>>>
>>>>                     NCSG Members:
>>>>
>>>>                     I want to clarify a few issues in advance
>>>>                     regarding the current NCSG election.
>>>>
>>>>                     1.? We have 4 GNSO Council seats up for
>>>>                     election.? The top 3 vote getters will receive
>>>>                     a two-year term.? The 4th place vote getter
>>>>                     will only be for a one-year term because it is
>>>>                     filling a seat mid-term.? This is subject to
>>>>                     paragraph 2 below.
>>>>
>>>>                     2.? Regarding the gender diversity rule for the
>>>>                     GNSO Council, the NCSG Charter provides that
>>>>                     ?in no circumstance should there be fewer than
>>>>                     two members of any gender.?? As Tatiana is
>>>>                     presently our only continuing female member,
>>>>                     Stephanie will automatically be elected to the
>>>>                     GNSO Council regardless of how many votes she
>>>>                     receives because we are required to have at
>>>>                     least two female Council members under our
>>>>                     charter.? So the gender rule, trumps the number
>>>>                     of votes earned in terms of winning a seat.?
>>>>                     This means that Stephanie + the top 3 vote
>>>>                     getters from the other candidates will be
>>>>                     elected to Council.
>>>>
>>>>                     3.? Our regional diversity rules should not be
>>>>                     a factor in this election, however, because no
>>>>                     more than two members would be declared
>>>>                     resident of the same geographic region.
>>>>                     _______________________________________________
>>>>                     NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>>                     NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>                     <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>>                     https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>>
>>>
>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>         NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>         NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>         https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     NCSG-EC mailing list
>     NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
>     https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200602/89d30a68/attachment.htm>

From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Tue Jun  2 19:57:59 2020
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 12:57:59 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Vaibhav
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-oSoWxys+Kg9bsmWoQzjtQQKHj2s_ETfAeMrdRG=A_5sw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all

What he said to Milton is disrespectful, and contains specific accusations
as well as threats. I think he needs to be reminded off-list of the
expected standards of behavior at ICANN and encouraged to withdraw what he
said and eventually apologize. If he keeps lashing on, then to me thats a
case of temporary suspension from the mailing list with further review on
our side.

Milton is harsh, and I also think he should exercise restraint in such
circumstances, and it would be fair game to remind him. His point could be
made without certain words, irrespective of their being "true" or not. But
Vaibhav's surely went way over the line as far as standards of behavior are
concerned, much more than Milton ever did.

I know you don't like to play the cop Steph, but I do think it's required,
unfortunately. If you don't feel like it, I can volunteer, or someone else
can go ahead too.

But let's quickly discuss first; let me know what you all think.

Have a nice day,
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200602/9b4fdefe/attachment.htm>

From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Tue Jun  2 20:04:56 2020
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie E Perrin)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 13:04:56 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Vaibhav
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-oSoWxys+Kg9bsmWoQzjtQQKHj2s_ETfAeMrdRG=A_5sw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPZSw-oSoWxys+Kg9bsmWoQzjtQQKHj2s_ETfAeMrdRG=A_5sw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5b8d6fc9-66a3-0718-01bc-e4e3cc3498c7@mail.utoronto.ca>

I just responded to James' comment, in hopes that this would douse the 
flames.? I also resent the thread of reminders about the election 
process....I trust it made it to the list.

I agree that whoever this Agarwal guy is, an offlist note is required.? 
I would really appreciate it if you did it, because frankly it looks 
like I am retaliating and might serve to escalate matters.

I also think Milton is out of line.? I am well aware of how much he 
would like me not to run, but to suggest to the list that they send me a 
message about how unwelcome I am, by voting abstain....well, besides 
being hurtful, I think it is a kind of electioneering that ought to be 
discouraged.? Encourage people to vote for your candidate of choice, sure.

I also think that encouraging me to step down so the EC can appoint the 
person they really want raises all kinds of questions about how fair the 
election process is.

Just my two cents.

SP

On 2020-06-02 12:57 p.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:
> Hi all
>
> What he said to Milton is disrespectful, and contains specific 
> accusations as well as threats. I think he needs to be reminded 
> off-list of the expected standards of behavior at ICANN and encouraged 
> to withdraw what he said and eventually apologize. If he keeps lashing 
> on, then to me thats a case of temporary suspension from the mailing 
> list with further review on our side.
>
> Milton is harsh, and I also think he should exercise restraint in such 
> circumstances, and it would be fair game to remind him. His point 
> could be made without certain words, irrespective of their being 
> "true" or not. But Vaibhav's surely went way over the line as far as 
> standards of behavior are concerned, much more than Milton ever did.
>
> I know you don't like to play the cop Steph, but I do think it's 
> required, unfortunately. If you don't feel like it, I can volunteer, 
> or someone else can go ahead too.
>
> But let's quickly discuss first; let me know what you all think.
>
> Have a nice day,
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200602/71320006/attachment.htm>

From robin at ipjustice.org  Tue Jun  2 20:15:28 2020
From: robin at ipjustice.org (Robin Gross)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 10:15:28 -0700
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Vaibhav
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-oSoWxys+Kg9bsmWoQzjtQQKHj2s_ETfAeMrdRG=A_5sw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPZSw-oSoWxys+Kg9bsmWoQzjtQQKHj2s_ETfAeMrdRG=A_5sw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <018DFE1D-A4BB-4045-94DE-19DD214CD7FD@ipjustice.org>

Thanks, Raphael.  Yes, I do agree that Vaibhav has gone too far with his threats and taunts on the list.  I have no idea who he is, but agree that he should be reminded off-list of the ESB as you suggest below, thanks for being willing to take it on.

Best,
Robin

> On Jun 2, 2020, at 9:57 AM, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
> 
> Hi all
> 
> What he said to Milton is disrespectful, and contains specific accusations as well as threats. I think he needs to be reminded off-list of the expected standards of behavior at ICANN and encouraged to withdraw what he said and eventually apologize. If he keeps lashing on, then to me thats a case of temporary suspension from the mailing list with further review on our side. 
> 
> Milton is harsh, and I also think he should exercise restraint in such circumstances, and it would be fair game to remind him. His point could be made without certain words, irrespective of their being "true" or not. But Vaibhav's surely went way over the line as far as standards of behavior are concerned, much more than Milton ever did. 
> 
> I know you don't like to play the cop Steph, but I do think it's required, unfortunately. If you don't feel like it, I can volunteer, or someone else can go ahead too.
> 
> But let's quickly discuss first; let me know what you all think.
> 
> Have a nice day, 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec



From robin at ipjustice.org  Tue Jun  2 20:52:43 2020
From: robin at ipjustice.org (Robin Gross)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 10:52:43 -0700
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Vaibhav
In-Reply-To: <5b8d6fc9-66a3-0718-01bc-e4e3cc3498c7@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <CAPZSw-oSoWxys+Kg9bsmWoQzjtQQKHj2s_ETfAeMrdRG=A_5sw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5b8d6fc9-66a3-0718-01bc-e4e3cc3498c7@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <B3E5A187-BA89-49EC-945D-574375744A30@ipjustice.org>

I didn?t interpret Milton?s message as being hurtful but more of what we face every election - people imaging ways of using the existing ballot and rules to achieve various results.  It isn?t the first time we?ve had abstain / NOTA conversations and probably won?t be the last.

Best,
Robin

> On Jun 2, 2020, at 10:04 AM, Stephanie E Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
> 
> I just responded to James' comment, in hopes that this would douse the flames.  I also resent the thread of reminders about the election process....I trust it made it to the list.
> 
> I agree that whoever this Agarwal guy is, an offlist note is required.  I would really appreciate it if you did it, because frankly it looks like I am retaliating and might serve to escalate matters.
> 
> I also think Milton is out of line.  I am well aware of how much he would like me not to run, but to suggest to the list that they send me a message about how unwelcome I am, by voting abstain....well, besides being hurtful, I think it is a kind of electioneering that ought to be discouraged.  Encourage people to vote for your candidate of choice, sure.
> 
> I also think that encouraging me to step down so the EC can appoint the person they really want raises all kinds of questions about how fair the election process is.
> 
> Just my two cents.
> 
> SP
> On 2020-06-02 12:57 p.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:
>> Hi all
>> 
>> What he said to Milton is disrespectful, and contains specific accusations as well as threats. I think he needs to be reminded off-list of the expected standards of behavior at ICANN and encouraged to withdraw what he said and eventually apologize. If he keeps lashing on, then to me thats a case of temporary suspension from the mailing list with further review on our side. 
>> 
>> Milton is harsh, and I also think he should exercise restraint in such circumstances, and it would be fair game to remind him. His point could be made without certain words, irrespective of their being "true" or not. But Vaibhav's surely went way over the line as far as standards of behavior are concerned, much more than Milton ever did. 
>> 
>> I know you don't like to play the cop Steph, but I do think it's required, unfortunately. If you don't feel like it, I can volunteer, or someone else can go ahead too.
>> 
>> But let's quickly discuss first; let me know what you all think.
>> 
>> Have a nice day, 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200602/c015b7a7/attachment.htm>

From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Tue Jun  2 21:19:54 2020
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 14:19:54 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Vaibhav
In-Reply-To: <B3E5A187-BA89-49EC-945D-574375744A30@ipjustice.org>
References: <CAPZSw-oSoWxys+Kg9bsmWoQzjtQQKHj2s_ETfAeMrdRG=A_5sw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5b8d6fc9-66a3-0718-01bc-e4e3cc3498c7@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <B3E5A187-BA89-49EC-945D-574375744A30@ipjustice.org>
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-p3ZuMfAxhqQP=_AjhpFxxeUnuevT0Fs4ksxjo7d0UorA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

This was not my initial interpretation of his message either, but I can see
how and why you can interpret it that way Steph.

But I'm not sure that the point you are raising should be addressed in the
context of the EC. It has ramifications into both your history as a NCSG
chair, and the "issues" with our rigid gender rules that now put you in a
situation where you are (almost) elected by default. The interpretation you
put forward is legitimate in your circumstances, but it has to be inferred,
from a rather complex situation and long-standing situation. Whats going on
with Vaibhav though is rather straightforward and can be addressed right
away.

This is what I plan to send him later today, with your agreement:

"Vaibhav,

We are writing to you regarding the post you made on the NCSG mailing list
at 11:50 EST in the "NCSG Election Clarifications" thread.

After reviewing the content of your post, we find it to be in violation of
both the NCSG Charter and the ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior.

Article 1.2 d) of the NCSG Charter reads as follows:
"Behavioral expectations of all NCSG members, include without limitation:
adhering to ICANN Bylaws/Policies; supporting the bottom-up consensus
model; treating others with dignity, respect, and courtesy; listening
attentively and seeking to understand others; acting with honesty,
sincerity, and integrity."

Your recent interventions on the mailing list were generally borderline
regarding these Charter committments, and the one we referred to above
constitutes a direct violation.

We would kindly ask you to reconsider how you understand your involvement
with NCSG and withdraw the personal attacks, accusations and threats you
made in that post.

Any further post on the NCSG mailing list which would be found in violation
of the NCSG Charter could lead to your suspension from the mailing list and
a further review of your membership status by the NCSG Executive Committee.

We thank you in advance for your cooperation on this matter.

Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix, on behalf of the NCSG Executive Committee





On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 1:53 PM Robin Gross via NCSG-EC <
ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:

> I didn?t interpret Milton?s message as being hurtful but more of what we
> face every election - people imaging ways of using the existing ballot and
> rules to achieve various results.  It isn?t the first time we?ve had
> abstain / NOTA conversations and probably won?t be the last.
>
> Best,
> Robin
>
> On Jun 2, 2020, at 10:04 AM, Stephanie E Perrin via NCSG-EC <
> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>
> I just responded to James' comment, in hopes that this would douse the
> flames.  I also resent the thread of reminders about the election
> process....I trust it made it to the list.
>
> I agree that whoever this Agarwal guy is, an offlist note is required.  I
> would really appreciate it if you did it, because frankly it looks like I
> am retaliating and might serve to escalate matters.
>
> I also think Milton is out of line.  I am well aware of how much he would
> like me not to run, but to suggest to the list that they send me a message
> about how unwelcome I am, by voting abstain....well, besides being hurtful,
> I think it is a kind of electioneering that ought to be discouraged.
> Encourage people to vote for your candidate of choice, sure.
>
> I also think that encouraging me to step down so the EC can appoint the
> person they really want raises all kinds of questions about how fair the
> election process is.
>
> Just my two cents.
>
> SP
> On 2020-06-02 12:57 p.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> What he said to Milton is disrespectful, and contains specific accusations
> as well as threats. I think he needs to be reminded off-list of the
> expected standards of behavior at ICANN and encouraged to withdraw what he
> said and eventually apologize. If he keeps lashing on, then to me thats a
> case of temporary suspension from the mailing list with further review on
> our side.
>
> Milton is harsh, and I also think he should exercise restraint in such
> circumstances, and it would be fair game to remind him. His point could be
> made without certain words, irrespective of their being "true" or not. But
> Vaibhav's surely went way over the line as far as standards of behavior are
> concerned, much more than Milton ever did.
>
> I know you don't like to play the cop Steph, but I do think it's required,
> unfortunately. If you don't feel like it, I can volunteer, or someone else
> can go ahead too.
>
> But let's quickly discuss first; let me know what you all think.
>
> Have a nice day,
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing listNCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.ishttps://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200602/e6a83a3c/attachment.htm>

From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Tue Jun  2 22:44:47 2020
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 15:44:47 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Vaibhav
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-p3ZuMfAxhqQP=_AjhpFxxeUnuevT0Fs4ksxjo7d0UorA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPZSw-oSoWxys+Kg9bsmWoQzjtQQKHj2s_ETfAeMrdRG=A_5sw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5b8d6fc9-66a3-0718-01bc-e4e3cc3498c7@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <B3E5A187-BA89-49EC-945D-574375744A30@ipjustice.org>
 <CAPZSw-p3ZuMfAxhqQP=_AjhpFxxeUnuevT0Fs4ksxjo7d0UorA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-rbifjdj0N6Njeinqb=NrzTOggtwbQZhjRsbdVG12TSgQ@mail.gmail.com>

Okay he's definitely over the fence. I will reach out to him with the
language I mentioned above (adding to the list of issues whatever else he's
been spouting since this morning) at 5pm EST today if I do not receive
objections by then.

I am also thinking that "soft-closing" the thread might be a good idea at
this point. It is not going anywhere, anyway, and I feel like by feeding
him we'll just keep rolling...



On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 2:19 PM Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <
rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> This was not my initial interpretation of his message either, but I can
> see how and why you can interpret it that way Steph.
>
> But I'm not sure that the point you are raising should be addressed in the
> context of the EC. It has ramifications into both your history as a NCSG
> chair, and the "issues" with our rigid gender rules that now put you in a
> situation where you are (almost) elected by default. The interpretation you
> put forward is legitimate in your circumstances, but it has to be inferred,
> from a rather complex situation and long-standing situation. Whats going on
> with Vaibhav though is rather straightforward and can be addressed right
> away.
>
> This is what I plan to send him later today, with your agreement:
>
> "Vaibhav,
>
> We are writing to you regarding the post you made on the NCSG mailing list
> at 11:50 EST in the "NCSG Election Clarifications" thread.
>
> After reviewing the content of your post, we find it to be in violation of
> both the NCSG Charter and the ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior.
>
> Article 1.2 d) of the NCSG Charter reads as follows:
> "Behavioral expectations of all NCSG members, include without limitation:
> adhering to ICANN Bylaws/Policies; supporting the bottom-up consensus
> model; treating others with dignity, respect, and courtesy; listening
> attentively and seeking to understand others; acting with honesty,
> sincerity, and integrity."
>
> Your recent interventions on the mailing list were generally borderline
> regarding these Charter committments, and the one we referred to above
> constitutes a direct violation.
>
> We would kindly ask you to reconsider how you understand your involvement
> with NCSG and withdraw the personal attacks, accusations and threats you
> made in that post.
>
> Any further post on the NCSG mailing list which would be found in
> violation of the NCSG Charter could lead to your suspension from the
> mailing list and a further review of your membership status by the NCSG
> Executive Committee.
>
> We thank you in advance for your cooperation on this matter.
>
> Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix, on behalf of the NCSG Executive Committee
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 1:53 PM Robin Gross via NCSG-EC <
> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>
>> I didn?t interpret Milton?s message as being hurtful but more of what we
>> face every election - people imaging ways of using the existing ballot and
>> rules to achieve various results.  It isn?t the first time we?ve had
>> abstain / NOTA conversations and probably won?t be the last.
>>
>> Best,
>> Robin
>>
>> On Jun 2, 2020, at 10:04 AM, Stephanie E Perrin via NCSG-EC <
>> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>
>> I just responded to James' comment, in hopes that this would douse the
>> flames.  I also resent the thread of reminders about the election
>> process....I trust it made it to the list.
>>
>> I agree that whoever this Agarwal guy is, an offlist note is required.  I
>> would really appreciate it if you did it, because frankly it looks like I
>> am retaliating and might serve to escalate matters.
>>
>> I also think Milton is out of line.  I am well aware of how much he would
>> like me not to run, but to suggest to the list that they send me a message
>> about how unwelcome I am, by voting abstain....well, besides being hurtful,
>> I think it is a kind of electioneering that ought to be discouraged.
>> Encourage people to vote for your candidate of choice, sure.
>>
>> I also think that encouraging me to step down so the EC can appoint the
>> person they really want raises all kinds of questions about how fair the
>> election process is.
>>
>> Just my two cents.
>>
>> SP
>> On 2020-06-02 12:57 p.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:
>>
>> Hi all
>>
>> What he said to Milton is disrespectful, and contains specific
>> accusations as well as threats. I think he needs to be reminded off-list of
>> the expected standards of behavior at ICANN and encouraged to withdraw what
>> he said and eventually apologize. If he keeps lashing on, then to me thats
>> a case of temporary suspension from the mailing list with further review on
>> our side.
>>
>> Milton is harsh, and I also think he should exercise restraint in such
>> circumstances, and it would be fair game to remind him. His point could be
>> made without certain words, irrespective of their being "true" or not. But
>> Vaibhav's surely went way over the line as far as standards of behavior are
>> concerned, much more than Milton ever did.
>>
>> I know you don't like to play the cop Steph, but I do think it's
>> required, unfortunately. If you don't feel like it, I can volunteer, or
>> someone else can go ahead too.
>>
>> But let's quickly discuss first; let me know what you all think.
>>
>> Have a nice day,
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing listNCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.ishttps://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200602/74b8c381/attachment.htm>

From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Tue Jun  2 23:22:40 2020
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 16:22:40 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Vaibhav
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-rbifjdj0N6Njeinqb=NrzTOggtwbQZhjRsbdVG12TSgQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPZSw-oSoWxys+Kg9bsmWoQzjtQQKHj2s_ETfAeMrdRG=A_5sw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5b8d6fc9-66a3-0718-01bc-e4e3cc3498c7@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <B3E5A187-BA89-49EC-945D-574375744A30@ipjustice.org>
 <CAPZSw-p3ZuMfAxhqQP=_AjhpFxxeUnuevT0Fs4ksxjo7d0UorA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPZSw-rbifjdj0N6Njeinqb=NrzTOggtwbQZhjRsbdVG12TSgQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-rpga+mibJkga0JszVhJtkmphnwXSLLb9qZB5ozsm2XMA@mail.gmail.com>

Ok I've had enough. He's taken to Twitter too, so I guess he's not gonna
stop.  https://twitter.com/thevaibhavag/status/1267896730948788224  I'm
sending now and I'll put us in copy.

On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 3:44 PM Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <
rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:

> Okay he's definitely over the fence. I will reach out to him with the
> language I mentioned above (adding to the list of issues whatever else he's
> been spouting since this morning) at 5pm EST today if I do not receive
> objections by then.
>
> I am also thinking that "soft-closing" the thread might be a good idea at
> this point. It is not going anywhere, anyway, and I feel like by feeding
> him we'll just keep rolling...
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 2:19 PM Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <
> rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> This was not my initial interpretation of his message either, but I can
>> see how and why you can interpret it that way Steph.
>>
>> But I'm not sure that the point you are raising should be addressed in
>> the context of the EC. It has ramifications into both your history as a
>> NCSG chair, and the "issues" with our rigid gender rules that now put you
>> in a situation where you are (almost) elected by default. The
>> interpretation you put forward is legitimate in your circumstances, but it
>> has to be inferred, from a rather complex situation and long-standing
>> situation. Whats going on with Vaibhav though is rather straightforward and
>> can be addressed right away.
>>
>> This is what I plan to send him later today, with your agreement:
>>
>> "Vaibhav,
>>
>> We are writing to you regarding the post you made on the NCSG mailing
>> list at 11:50 EST in the "NCSG Election Clarifications" thread.
>>
>> After reviewing the content of your post, we find it to be in violation
>> of both the NCSG Charter and the ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior.
>>
>> Article 1.2 d) of the NCSG Charter reads as follows:
>> "Behavioral expectations of all NCSG members, include without limitation:
>> adhering to ICANN Bylaws/Policies; supporting the bottom-up consensus
>> model; treating others with dignity, respect, and courtesy; listening
>> attentively and seeking to understand others; acting with honesty,
>> sincerity, and integrity."
>>
>> Your recent interventions on the mailing list were generally borderline
>> regarding these Charter committments, and the one we referred to above
>> constitutes a direct violation.
>>
>> We would kindly ask you to reconsider how you understand your involvement
>> with NCSG and withdraw the personal attacks, accusations and threats you
>> made in that post.
>>
>> Any further post on the NCSG mailing list which would be found in
>> violation of the NCSG Charter could lead to your suspension from the
>> mailing list and a further review of your membership status by the NCSG
>> Executive Committee.
>>
>> We thank you in advance for your cooperation on this matter.
>>
>> Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix, on behalf of the NCSG Executive Committee
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 1:53 PM Robin Gross via NCSG-EC <
>> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>
>>> I didn?t interpret Milton?s message as being hurtful but more of what we
>>> face every election - people imaging ways of using the existing ballot and
>>> rules to achieve various results.  It isn?t the first time we?ve had
>>> abstain / NOTA conversations and probably won?t be the last.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Robin
>>>
>>> On Jun 2, 2020, at 10:04 AM, Stephanie E Perrin via NCSG-EC <
>>> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>>
>>> I just responded to James' comment, in hopes that this would douse the
>>> flames.  I also resent the thread of reminders about the election
>>> process....I trust it made it to the list.
>>>
>>> I agree that whoever this Agarwal guy is, an offlist note is required.
>>> I would really appreciate it if you did it, because frankly it looks like I
>>> am retaliating and might serve to escalate matters.
>>>
>>> I also think Milton is out of line.  I am well aware of how much he
>>> would like me not to run, but to suggest to the list that they send me a
>>> message about how unwelcome I am, by voting abstain....well, besides being
>>> hurtful, I think it is a kind of electioneering that ought to be
>>> discouraged.  Encourage people to vote for your candidate of choice, sure.
>>>
>>> I also think that encouraging me to step down so the EC can appoint the
>>> person they really want raises all kinds of questions about how fair the
>>> election process is.
>>>
>>> Just my two cents.
>>>
>>> SP
>>> On 2020-06-02 12:57 p.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all
>>>
>>> What he said to Milton is disrespectful, and contains specific
>>> accusations as well as threats. I think he needs to be reminded off-list of
>>> the expected standards of behavior at ICANN and encouraged to withdraw what
>>> he said and eventually apologize. If he keeps lashing on, then to me thats
>>> a case of temporary suspension from the mailing list with further review on
>>> our side.
>>>
>>> Milton is harsh, and I also think he should exercise restraint in such
>>> circumstances, and it would be fair game to remind him. His point could be
>>> made without certain words, irrespective of their being "true" or not. But
>>> Vaibhav's surely went way over the line as far as standards of behavior are
>>> concerned, much more than Milton ever did.
>>>
>>> I know you don't like to play the cop Steph, but I do think it's
>>> required, unfortunately. If you don't feel like it, I can volunteer, or
>>> someone else can go ahead too.
>>>
>>> But let's quickly discuss first; let me know what you all think.
>>>
>>> Have a nice day,
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NCSG-EC mailing listNCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.ishttps://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>
>>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200602/cf6bf1b2/attachment.htm>

From robin at ipjustice.org  Tue Jun  2 23:25:14 2020
From: robin at ipjustice.org (Robin Gross)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 13:25:14 -0700
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Vaibhav
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-rpga+mibJkga0JszVhJtkmphnwXSLLb9qZB5ozsm2XMA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPZSw-oSoWxys+Kg9bsmWoQzjtQQKHj2s_ETfAeMrdRG=A_5sw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5b8d6fc9-66a3-0718-01bc-e4e3cc3498c7@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <B3E5A187-BA89-49EC-945D-574375744A30@ipjustice.org>
 <CAPZSw-p3ZuMfAxhqQP=_AjhpFxxeUnuevT0Fs4ksxjo7d0UorA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPZSw-rbifjdj0N6Njeinqb=NrzTOggtwbQZhjRsbdVG12TSgQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPZSw-rpga+mibJkga0JszVhJtkmphnwXSLLb9qZB5ozsm2XMA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7CE1D05B-0CB3-41E8-B743-2EFA4810B3B1@ipjustice.org>

I agree, Raph.  This behavior is becoming quite a problem and we need to nix it asap.  Thanks for stepping in here.

Best,
Robin


> On Jun 2, 2020, at 1:22 PM, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
> 
> Ok I've had enough. He's taken to Twitter too, so I guess he's not gonna stop.  https://twitter.com/thevaibhavag/status/1267896730948788224 <https://twitter.com/thevaibhavag/status/1267896730948788224>  I'm sending now and I'll put us in copy.
> 
> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 3:44 PM Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com <mailto:rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Okay he's definitely over the fence. I will reach out to him with the language I mentioned above (adding to the list of issues whatever else he's been spouting since this morning) at 5pm EST today if I do not receive objections by then.
> 
> I am also thinking that "soft-closing" the thread might be a good idea at this point. It is not going anywhere, anyway, and I feel like by feeding him we'll just keep rolling...
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 2:19 PM Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com <mailto:rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> This was not my initial interpretation of his message either, but I can see how and why you can interpret it that way Steph. 
> 
> But I'm not sure that the point you are raising should be addressed in the context of the EC. It has ramifications into both your history as a NCSG chair, and the "issues" with our rigid gender rules that now put you in a situation where you are (almost) elected by default. The interpretation you put forward is legitimate in your circumstances, but it has to be inferred, from a rather complex situation and long-standing situation. Whats going on with Vaibhav though is rather straightforward and can be addressed right away.
> 
> This is what I plan to send him later today, with your agreement:
> 
> "Vaibhav,
> 
> We are writing to you regarding the post you made on the NCSG mailing list at 11:50 EST in the "NCSG Election Clarifications" thread.
> 
> After reviewing the content of your post, we find it to be in violation of both the NCSG Charter and the ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior.
> 
> Article 1.2 d) of the NCSG Charter reads as follows:
> "Behavioral expectations of all NCSG members, include without limitation: adhering to ICANN Bylaws/Policies; supporting the bottom-up consensus model; treating others with dignity, respect, and courtesy; listening attentively and seeking to understand others; acting with honesty, sincerity, and integrity."
> 
> Your recent interventions on the mailing list were generally borderline regarding these Charter committments, and the one we referred to above constitutes a direct violation. 
> 
> We would kindly ask you to reconsider how you understand your involvement with NCSG and withdraw the personal attacks, accusations and threats you made in that post. 
> 
> Any further post on the NCSG mailing list which would be found in violation of the NCSG Charter could lead to your suspension from the mailing list and a further review of your membership status by the NCSG Executive Committee.
> 
> We thank you in advance for your cooperation on this matter.
> 
> Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix, on behalf of the NCSG Executive Committee
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 1:53 PM Robin Gross via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
> I didn?t interpret Milton?s message as being hurtful but more of what we face every election - people imaging ways of using the existing ballot and rules to achieve various results.  It isn?t the first time we?ve had abstain / NOTA conversations and probably won?t be the last.
> 
> Best,
> Robin
> 
>> On Jun 2, 2020, at 10:04 AM, Stephanie E Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>> 
>> I just responded to James' comment, in hopes that this would douse the flames.  I also resent the thread of reminders about the election process....I trust it made it to the list.
>> 
>> I agree that whoever this Agarwal guy is, an offlist note is required.  I would really appreciate it if you did it, because frankly it looks like I am retaliating and might serve to escalate matters.
>> 
>> I also think Milton is out of line.  I am well aware of how much he would like me not to run, but to suggest to the list that they send me a message about how unwelcome I am, by voting abstain....well, besides being hurtful, I think it is a kind of electioneering that ought to be discouraged.  Encourage people to vote for your candidate of choice, sure.
>> 
>> I also think that encouraging me to step down so the EC can appoint the person they really want raises all kinds of questions about how fair the election process is.
>> 
>> Just my two cents.
>> 
>> SP
>> On 2020-06-02 12:57 p.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:
>>> Hi all
>>> 
>>> What he said to Milton is disrespectful, and contains specific accusations as well as threats. I think he needs to be reminded off-list of the expected standards of behavior at ICANN and encouraged to withdraw what he said and eventually apologize. If he keeps lashing on, then to me thats a case of temporary suspension from the mailing list with further review on our side. 
>>> 
>>> Milton is harsh, and I also think he should exercise restraint in such circumstances, and it would be fair game to remind him. His point could be made without certain words, irrespective of their being "true" or not. But Vaibhav's surely went way over the line as far as standards of behavior are concerned, much more than Milton ever did. 
>>> 
>>> I know you don't like to play the cop Steph, but I do think it's required, unfortunately. If you don't feel like it, I can volunteer, or someone else can go ahead too.
>>> 
>>> But let's quickly discuss first; let me know what you all think.
>>> 
>>> Have a nice day, 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200602/52aa016b/attachment.htm>

From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Tue Jun  2 23:29:49 2020
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 16:29:49 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Regarding your recent interventions on the NCSG mailing
 list and social media
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-pLQSXO65MAkwrvh7o=StCnfYGSPuVyk3Pt8L9chd41jg@mail.gmail.com>

Vaibhav,

We are writing to you regarding the post you made on the NCSG mailing list
today at 11:50 EST in the "NCSG Election Clarifications" thread, as well as
a tweet from your personal Twitter account posted today at 3:11pm EST.

After reviewing the content of your post and your tweet, we find them to be
in violation of both the NCSG Charter and the ICANN Expected Standards of
Behavior.

Article 1.2 d) of the NCSG Charter reads as follows:
"Behavioral expectations of all NCSG members, include without limitation:
adhering to ICANN Bylaws/Policies; supporting the bottom-up consensus
model; treating others with dignity, respect, and courtesy; listening
attentively and seeking to understand others; acting with honesty,
sincerity, and integrity."

Your recent interventions on the mailing list, both before and after the
two problematic interventions mentioned above, are generally borderline
regarding these Charter committments, but those two specifically referred
here constitute a direct violation of the Charter.

In that regard, we ask you to
1) withdraw all the personal attacks, accusations and threats you made in
on list and on social media,
2) refrain from any further language that could be in violation of the NCSG
Charter, both on list and on social media,
2) engage with the mailing list solely on policy matters until the
elections are complete, that is until results are announced on or after the
17th of June.

More generally we also invite you to reconsider how you understand your
engagement with NCSG.

Any future failure to abide by any of the three points above, or any future
behavior in violation of the NCSG Charter, could lead to your immediate
suspension from the mailing list and a further review of your membership
status by the NCSG Executive Committee.

We thank you in advance for your cooperation on this matter.

Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix, on behalf of the NCSG Executive Committee
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200602/8135da1a/attachment.htm>

From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Tue Jun  2 23:58:10 2020
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 16:58:10 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Fwd: Regarding your recent interventions on the NCSG
 mailing list and social media
In-Reply-To: <0A6C0473-5250-40B3-B072-D1F15D0746D9@bladebrains.com>
References: <CAPZSw-pLQSXO65MAkwrvh7o=StCnfYGSPuVyk3Pt8L9chd41jg@mail.gmail.com>
 <0A6C0473-5250-40B3-B072-D1F15D0746D9@bladebrains.com>
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-qf4CERCU12-a30=A9XhmZ=xK3OU7KyZRa=dcHH7fNsXw@mail.gmail.com>

I suppose the EC list has limited posting privileges, so putting his answer
here.

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Vaibhav Aggarwal, Catalyst & Group CEO <va at bladebrains.com>
Date: Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 4:55 PM
Subject: Re: Regarding your recent interventions on the NCSG mailing list
and social media
To: Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>
Cc: NCSG EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>


Thanks For the threat.

Let me know if a warning has been issued to Muller. And What action has
been taken on my complaint. By the look of it - you email is targeted,
based and the approach on the subject matter is dubious. Which is in total
contraventions of the ICANN Charter. The NCSG Charter is not to be read -
Legally Alone - It has to be Qua the ICANN charter.

It is imperative to believe on the Charter in both Letter and Spirit.

As far as my actions in my personal capacity are - it is my business and
the parties involved. Since you chose to bring it up here and document it
as a reason under pressure - I thank you for this that the NCSG is willing
to go against the Charter, you are willing to arm twist me.

Let me know.

-VA


> On Jun 3, 2020, at 1:59 AM, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <
rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Vaibhav,
>
> We are writing to you regarding the post you made on the NCSG mailing
list today at 11:50 EST in the "NCSG Election Clarifications" thread, as
well as a tweet from your personal Twitter account posted today at 3:11pm
EST.
>
> After reviewing the content of your post and your tweet, we find them to
be in violation of both the NCSG Charter and the ICANN Expected Standards
of Behavior.
>
> Article 1.2 d) of the NCSG Charter reads as follows:
> "Behavioral expectations of all NCSG members, include without limitation:
adhering to ICANN Bylaws/Policies; supporting the bottom-up consensus
model; treating others with dignity, respect, and courtesy; listening
attentively and seeking to understand others; acting with honesty,
sincerity, and integrity."
>
> Your recent interventions on the mailing list, both before and after the
two problematic interventions mentioned above, are generally borderline
regarding these Charter committments, but those two specifically referred
here constitute a direct violation of the Charter.
>
> In that regard, we ask you to
> 1) withdraw all the personal attacks, accusations and threats you made in
on list and on social media,
> 2) refrain from any further language that could be in violation of the
NCSG Charter, both on list and on social media,
> 2) engage with the mailing list solely on policy matters until the
elections are complete, that is until results are announced on or after the
17th of June.
>
> More generally we also invite you to reconsider how you understand your
engagement with NCSG.
>
> Any future failure to abide by any of the three points above, or any
future behavior in violation of the NCSG Charter, could lead to your
immediate suspension from the mailing list and a further review of your
membership status by the NCSG Executive Committee.
>
> We thank you in advance for your cooperation on this matter.
>
> Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix, on behalf of the NCSG Executive Committee
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200602/b67b6e5a/attachment.htm>

From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Wed Jun  3 00:06:49 2020
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 17:06:49 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Regarding your recent interventions on the NCSG
 mailing list and social media
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-qf4CERCU12-a30=A9XhmZ=xK3OU7KyZRa=dcHH7fNsXw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPZSw-pLQSXO65MAkwrvh7o=StCnfYGSPuVyk3Pt8L9chd41jg@mail.gmail.com>
 <0A6C0473-5250-40B3-B072-D1F15D0746D9@bladebrains.com>
 <CAPZSw-qf4CERCU12-a30=A9XhmZ=xK3OU7KyZRa=dcHH7fNsXw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-p=WBSF+YXLWb8LcCQdGAgMZBN3NWh4xK1fbDbNPDNFcw@mail.gmail.com>

Aaaand he just complained about the email, on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/thevaibhavag/status/1267924627071909901


On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 4:58 PM Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <
rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:

> I suppose the EC list has limited posting privileges, so putting his
> answer here.
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: Vaibhav Aggarwal, Catalyst & Group CEO <va at bladebrains.com>
> Date: Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 4:55 PM
> Subject: Re: Regarding your recent interventions on the NCSG mailing list
> and social media
> To: Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>
> Cc: NCSG EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>
>
>
> Thanks For the threat.
>
> Let me know if a warning has been issued to Muller. And What action has
> been taken on my complaint. By the look of it - you email is targeted,
> based and the approach on the subject matter is dubious. Which is in total
> contraventions of the ICANN Charter. The NCSG Charter is not to be read -
> Legally Alone - It has to be Qua the ICANN charter.
>
> It is imperative to believe on the Charter in both Letter and Spirit.
>
> As far as my actions in my personal capacity are - it is my business and
> the parties involved. Since you chose to bring it up here and document it
> as a reason under pressure - I thank you for this that the NCSG is willing
> to go against the Charter, you are willing to arm twist me.
>
> Let me know.
>
> -VA
>
>
> > On Jun 3, 2020, at 1:59 AM, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <
> rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Vaibhav,
> >
> > We are writing to you regarding the post you made on the NCSG mailing
> list today at 11:50 EST in the "NCSG Election Clarifications" thread, as
> well as a tweet from your personal Twitter account posted today at 3:11pm
> EST.
> >
> > After reviewing the content of your post and your tweet, we find them to
> be in violation of both the NCSG Charter and the ICANN Expected Standards
> of Behavior.
> >
> > Article 1.2 d) of the NCSG Charter reads as follows:
> > "Behavioral expectations of all NCSG members, include without
> limitation: adhering to ICANN Bylaws/Policies; supporting the bottom-up
> consensus model; treating others with dignity, respect, and courtesy;
> listening attentively and seeking to understand others; acting with
> honesty, sincerity, and integrity."
> >
> > Your recent interventions on the mailing list, both before and after the
> two problematic interventions mentioned above, are generally borderline
> regarding these Charter committments, but those two specifically referred
> here constitute a direct violation of the Charter.
> >
> > In that regard, we ask you to
> > 1) withdraw all the personal attacks, accusations and threats you made
> in on list and on social media,
> > 2) refrain from any further language that could be in violation of the
> NCSG Charter, both on list and on social media,
> > 2) engage with the mailing list solely on policy matters until the
> elections are complete, that is until results are announced on or after the
> 17th of June.
> >
> > More generally we also invite you to reconsider how you understand your
> engagement with NCSG.
> >
> > Any future failure to abide by any of the three points above, or any
> future behavior in violation of the NCSG Charter, could lead to your
> immediate suspension from the mailing list and a further review of your
> membership status by the NCSG Executive Committee.
> >
> > We thank you in advance for your cooperation on this matter.
> >
> > Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix, on behalf of the NCSG Executive Committee
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200602/4c6eb5b5/attachment.htm>

From robin at ipjustice.org  Wed Jun  3 00:20:22 2020
From: robin at ipjustice.org (Robin Gross)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 14:20:22 -0700
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Regarding your recent interventions on the NCSG
 mailing list and social media
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-p=WBSF+YXLWb8LcCQdGAgMZBN3NWh4xK1fbDbNPDNFcw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPZSw-pLQSXO65MAkwrvh7o=StCnfYGSPuVyk3Pt8L9chd41jg@mail.gmail.com>
 <0A6C0473-5250-40B3-B072-D1F15D0746D9@bladebrains.com>
 <CAPZSw-qf4CERCU12-a30=A9XhmZ=xK3OU7KyZRa=dcHH7fNsXw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPZSw-p=WBSF+YXLWb8LcCQdGAgMZBN3NWh4xK1fbDbNPDNFcw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <630ABEA0-42FD-4FDC-8202-C95770434237@ipjustice.org>

I propose that we moderate his posts to the discuss list beginning immediately.  Rafik has the necessary rights and is ready to do it for us.

He can post on substantive policy, but these accusations, threats, and rants will no longer be posted is my proposal.

Please respond ASAP.

Best,
Robin

> On Jun 2, 2020, at 2:06 PM, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
> 
> Aaaand he just complained about the email, on Twitter. https://twitter.com/thevaibhavag/status/1267924627071909901 <https://twitter.com/thevaibhavag/status/1267924627071909901>
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 4:58 PM Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com <mailto:rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>> wrote:
> I suppose the EC list has limited posting privileges, so putting his answer here.
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: Vaibhav Aggarwal, Catalyst & Group CEO <va at bladebrains.com <mailto:va at bladebrains.com>>
> Date: Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 4:55 PM
> Subject: Re: Regarding your recent interventions on the NCSG mailing list and social media
> To: Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com <mailto:rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>>
> Cc: NCSG EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>>
> 
> 
> Thanks For the threat. 
> 
> Let me know if a warning has been issued to Muller. And What action has been taken on my complaint. By the look of it - you email is targeted, based and the approach on the subject matter is dubious. Which is in total contraventions of the ICANN Charter. The NCSG Charter is not to be read - Legally Alone - It has to be Qua the ICANN charter.
> 
> It is imperative to believe on the Charter in both Letter and Spirit. 
> 
> As far as my actions in my personal capacity are - it is my business and the parties involved. Since you chose to bring it up here and document it as a reason under pressure - I thank you for this that the NCSG is willing to go against the Charter, you are willing to arm twist me. 
> 
> Let me know. 
> 
> -VA
> 
> 
> > On Jun 3, 2020, at 1:59 AM, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com <mailto:rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > 
> > Vaibhav,
> > 
> > We are writing to you regarding the post you made on the NCSG mailing list today at 11:50 EST in the "NCSG Election Clarifications" thread, as well as a tweet from your personal Twitter account posted today at 3:11pm EST. 
> > 
> > After reviewing the content of your post and your tweet, we find them to be in violation of both the NCSG Charter and the ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior.
> > 
> > Article 1.2 d) of the NCSG Charter reads as follows:
> > "Behavioral expectations of all NCSG members, include without limitation: adhering to ICANN Bylaws/Policies; supporting the bottom-up consensus model; treating others with dignity, respect, and courtesy; listening attentively and seeking to understand others; acting with honesty, sincerity, and integrity."
> > 
> > Your recent interventions on the mailing list, both before and after the two problematic interventions mentioned above, are generally borderline regarding these Charter committments, but those two specifically referred here constitute a direct violation of the Charter.
> > 
> > In that regard, we ask you to 
> > 1) withdraw all the personal attacks, accusations and threats you made in on list and on social media,
> > 2) refrain from any further language that could be in violation of the NCSG Charter, both on list and on social media,
> > 2) engage with the mailing list solely on policy matters until the elections are complete, that is until results are announced on or after the 17th of June. 
> > 
> > More generally we also invite you to reconsider how you understand your engagement with NCSG. 
> > 
> > Any future failure to abide by any of the three points above, or any future behavior in violation of the NCSG Charter, could lead to your immediate suspension from the mailing list and a further review of your membership status by the NCSG Executive Committee.
> > 
> > We thank you in advance for your cooperation on this matter.
> > 
> > Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix, on behalf of the NCSG Executive Committee
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200602/7edf5f04/attachment.htm>

From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Wed Jun  3 00:21:12 2020
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 17:21:12 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Regarding your recent interventions on the NCSG
 mailing list and social media
In-Reply-To: <630ABEA0-42FD-4FDC-8202-C95770434237@ipjustice.org>
References: <CAPZSw-pLQSXO65MAkwrvh7o=StCnfYGSPuVyk3Pt8L9chd41jg@mail.gmail.com>
 <0A6C0473-5250-40B3-B072-D1F15D0746D9@bladebrains.com>
 <CAPZSw-qf4CERCU12-a30=A9XhmZ=xK3OU7KyZRa=dcHH7fNsXw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPZSw-p=WBSF+YXLWb8LcCQdGAgMZBN3NWh4xK1fbDbNPDNFcw@mail.gmail.com>
 <630ABEA0-42FD-4FDC-8202-C95770434237@ipjustice.org>
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-oiELwuZFj87owxpF1BmpxDk=+POQDQrret+osj3VRstA@mail.gmail.com>

Good with me. It's indeed a high risk situation...

On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 5:20 PM Robin Gross <robin at ipjustice.org> wrote:

> I propose that we moderate his posts to the discuss list beginning
> immediately.  Rafik has the necessary rights and is ready to do it for us.
>
> He can post on substantive policy, but these accusations, threats, and
> rants will no longer be posted is my proposal.
>
> Please respond ASAP.
>
> Best,
> Robin
>
> On Jun 2, 2020, at 2:06 PM, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC <
> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>
> Aaaand he just complained about the email, on Twitter.
> https://twitter.com/thevaibhavag/status/1267924627071909901
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 4:58 PM Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <
> rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I suppose the EC list has limited posting privileges, so putting his
>> answer here.
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>> From: Vaibhav Aggarwal, Catalyst & Group CEO <va at bladebrains.com>
>> Date: Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 4:55 PM
>> Subject: Re: Regarding your recent interventions on the NCSG mailing list
>> and social media
>> To: Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>
>> Cc: NCSG EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>
>>
>>
>> Thanks For the threat.
>>
>> Let me know if a warning has been issued to Muller. And What action has
>> been taken on my complaint. By the look of it - you email is targeted,
>> based and the approach on the subject matter is dubious. Which is in total
>> contraventions of the ICANN Charter. The NCSG Charter is not to be read -
>> Legally Alone - It has to be Qua the ICANN charter.
>>
>> It is imperative to believe on the Charter in both Letter and Spirit.
>>
>> As far as my actions in my personal capacity are - it is my business and
>> the parties involved. Since you chose to bring it up here and document it
>> as a reason under pressure - I thank you for this that the NCSG is willing
>> to go against the Charter, you are willing to arm twist me.
>>
>> Let me know.
>>
>> -VA
>>
>>
>> > On Jun 3, 2020, at 1:59 AM, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <
>> rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Vaibhav,
>> >
>> > We are writing to you regarding the post you made on the NCSG mailing
>> list today at 11:50 EST in the "NCSG Election Clarifications" thread, as
>> well as a tweet from your personal Twitter account posted today at 3:11pm
>> EST.
>> >
>> > After reviewing the content of your post and your tweet, we find them
>> to be in violation of both the NCSG Charter and the ICANN Expected
>> Standards of Behavior.
>> >
>> > Article 1.2 d) of the NCSG Charter reads as follows:
>> > "Behavioral expectations of all NCSG members, include without
>> limitation: adhering to ICANN Bylaws/Policies; supporting the bottom-up
>> consensus model; treating others with dignity, respect, and courtesy;
>> listening attentively and seeking to understand others; acting with
>> honesty, sincerity, and integrity."
>> >
>> > Your recent interventions on the mailing list, both before and after
>> the two problematic interventions mentioned above, are generally borderline
>> regarding these Charter committments, but those two specifically referred
>> here constitute a direct violation of the Charter.
>> >
>> > In that regard, we ask you to
>> > 1) withdraw all the personal attacks, accusations and threats you made
>> in on list and on social media,
>> > 2) refrain from any further language that could be in violation of the
>> NCSG Charter, both on list and on social media,
>> > 2) engage with the mailing list solely on policy matters until the
>> elections are complete, that is until results are announced on or after the
>> 17th of June.
>> >
>> > More generally we also invite you to reconsider how you understand your
>> engagement with NCSG.
>> >
>> > Any future failure to abide by any of the three points above, or any
>> future behavior in violation of the NCSG Charter, could lead to your
>> immediate suspension from the mailing list and a further review of your
>> membership status by the NCSG Executive Committee.
>> >
>> > We thank you in advance for your cooperation on this matter.
>> >
>> > Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix, on behalf of the NCSG Executive Committee
>>
>> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200602/4bc572a5/attachment.htm>

From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Wed Jun  3 00:21:39 2020
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie E Perrin)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 17:21:39 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Vaibhav
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-p3ZuMfAxhqQP=_AjhpFxxeUnuevT0Fs4ksxjo7d0UorA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPZSw-oSoWxys+Kg9bsmWoQzjtQQKHj2s_ETfAeMrdRG=A_5sw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5b8d6fc9-66a3-0718-01bc-e4e3cc3498c7@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <B3E5A187-BA89-49EC-945D-574375744A30@ipjustice.org>
 <CAPZSw-p3ZuMfAxhqQP=_AjhpFxxeUnuevT0Fs4ksxjo7d0UorA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <11389446-0b38-6626-8f67-d958cd405fc3@mail.utoronto.ca>

Looks fine to me.? Thanks for doing this Raphael!

SP

On 2020-06-02 2:19 p.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:
> Hi,
>
> This was not my initial interpretation of his message either, but I 
> can see how and why you can interpret it that way Steph.
>
> But I'm not sure that the point you are raising should be addressed in 
> the context of the EC. It has ramifications into both your history as 
> a NCSG chair, and the "issues" with our rigid gender rules that now 
> put you in a situation where you are (almost) elected by default. The 
> interpretation you put forward is legitimate in your circumstances, 
> but it has to be inferred, from a rather complex situation and 
> long-standing situation. Whats going on with Vaibhav though is rather 
> straightforward and can be addressed right away.
>
> This is what I plan to send him later today, with your agreement:
>
> "Vaibhav,
>
> We are writing to you regarding the post you made on the NCSG mailing 
> list at 11:50 EST in the "NCSG Election Clarifications" thread.
>
> After reviewing the content of your post, we find it to be in 
> violation of both the NCSG Charter and the ICANN Expected Standards of 
> Behavior.
>
> Article 1.2 d) of the NCSG Charter reads as follows:
> "Behavioral expectations of all NCSG members, include without 
> limitation: adhering to ICANN Bylaws/Policies; supporting the 
> bottom-up consensus model; treating others with dignity, respect, and 
> courtesy; listening attentively and seeking to understand others; 
> acting with honesty, sincerity, and integrity."
>
> Your recent interventions on the mailing list were generally 
> borderline regarding these Charter committments, and the one we 
> referred to above constitutes a direct violation.
>
> We would kindly ask you to reconsider how you understand your 
> involvement with NCSG and withdraw the personal attacks, accusations 
> and threats you made in that post.
>
> Any further post on the NCSG mailing list which would be found in 
> violation of the NCSG Charter could lead to your suspension from the 
> mailing list and a further review of your membership status by the 
> NCSG Executive Committee.
>
> We thank you in advance for your cooperation on this matter.
>
> Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix, on behalf of the NCSG Executive Committee
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 1:53 PM Robin Gross via NCSG-EC 
> <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>
>     I didn?t interpret Milton?s message as being hurtful but more of
>     what we face every election - people imaging ways of using the
>     existing ballot and rules to achieve various results.? It isn?t
>     the first time we?ve had abstain / NOTA conversations and probably
>     won?t be the last.
>
>     Best,
>     Robin
>
>>     On Jun 2, 2020, at 10:04 AM, Stephanie E Perrin via NCSG-EC
>>     <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>>
>>     I just responded to James' comment, in hopes that this would
>>     douse the flames.? I also resent the thread of reminders about
>>     the election process....I trust it made it to the list.
>>
>>     I agree that whoever this Agarwal guy is, an offlist note is
>>     required.? I would really appreciate it if you did it, because
>>     frankly it looks like I am retaliating and might serve to
>>     escalate matters.
>>
>>     I also think Milton is out of line.? I am well aware of how much
>>     he would like me not to run, but to suggest to the list that they
>>     send me a message about how unwelcome I am, by voting
>>     abstain....well, besides being hurtful, I think it is a kind of
>>     electioneering that ought to be discouraged.? Encourage people to
>>     vote for your candidate of choice, sure.
>>
>>     I also think that encouraging me to step down so the EC can
>>     appoint the person they really want raises all kinds of questions
>>     about how fair the election process is.
>>
>>     Just my two cents.
>>
>>     SP
>>
>>     On 2020-06-02 12:57 p.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC
>>     wrote:
>>>     Hi all
>>>
>>>     What he said to Milton is disrespectful, and contains specific
>>>     accusations as well as threats. I think he needs to be reminded
>>>     off-list of the expected standards of behavior at ICANN and
>>>     encouraged to withdraw what he said and eventually apologize. If
>>>     he keeps lashing on, then to me thats a case of temporary
>>>     suspension from the mailing list with further review on our side.
>>>
>>>     Milton is harsh, and I also think he should exercise restraint
>>>     in such circumstances, and it would be fair game to remind him.
>>>     His point could be made without certain words, irrespective of
>>>     their being "true" or not. But Vaibhav's surely went way over
>>>     the line as far as standards of behavior are concerned, much
>>>     more than Milton ever did.
>>>
>>>     I know you don't like to play the cop Steph, but I do think it's
>>>     required, unfortunately. If you don't feel like it, I can
>>>     volunteer, or someone else can go ahead too.
>>>
>>>     But let's quickly discuss first; let me know what you all think.
>>>
>>>     Have a nice day,
>>>
>>>
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>     NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is  <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>     https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     NCSG-EC mailing list
>>     NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>     https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     NCSG-EC mailing list
>     NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
>     https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200602/556c4ee9/attachment.htm>

From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Wed Jun  3 00:41:51 2020
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie E Perrin)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 17:41:51 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Regarding your recent interventions on the NCSG
 mailing list and social media
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-oiELwuZFj87owxpF1BmpxDk=+POQDQrret+osj3VRstA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPZSw-pLQSXO65MAkwrvh7o=StCnfYGSPuVyk3Pt8L9chd41jg@mail.gmail.com>
 <0A6C0473-5250-40B3-B072-D1F15D0746D9@bladebrains.com>
 <CAPZSw-qf4CERCU12-a30=A9XhmZ=xK3OU7KyZRa=dcHH7fNsXw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPZSw-p=WBSF+YXLWb8LcCQdGAgMZBN3NWh4xK1fbDbNPDNFcw@mail.gmail.com>
 <630ABEA0-42FD-4FDC-8202-C95770434237@ipjustice.org>
 <CAPZSw-oiELwuZFj87owxpF1BmpxDk=+POQDQrret+osj3VRstA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87dbfde9-f08c-bf0d-fe40-2d40eec7831d@mail.utoronto.ca>

good with me, and i apologize for re-responding to him, a whole flood of 
more email came in after I did it.? I was trying to respond to Amr's 
calling out of NCSG leadership for not shutting this behaviour down.

I am in low bandwidth land....

cheers Steph

On 2020-06-02 5:21 p.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:
> Good with me. It's indeed a high risk situation...
>
> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 5:20 PM Robin Gross <robin at ipjustice.org 
> <mailto:robin at ipjustice.org>> wrote:
>
>     I propose that we moderate his posts to the discuss list beginning
>     immediately.? Rafik has the necessary rights and is ready to do it
>     for us.
>
>     He can post on substantive policy, but these accusations, threats,
>     and rants will no longer be posted is my proposal.
>
>     Please respond ASAP.
>
>     Best,
>     Robin
>
>>     On Jun 2, 2020, at 2:06 PM, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via
>>     NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>>
>>     Aaaand he just complained about the email, on Twitter.
>>     https://twitter.com/thevaibhavag/status/1267924627071909901
>>
>>
>>     On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 4:58 PM Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix
>>     <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com
>>     <mailto:rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>         I suppose the EC list has limited posting privileges, so
>>         putting his answer here.
>>
>>         ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>         From: *Vaibhav Aggarwal, Catalyst & Group CEO*
>>         <va at bladebrains.com <mailto:va at bladebrains.com>>
>>         Date: Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 4:55 PM
>>         Subject: Re: Regarding your recent interventions on the NCSG
>>         mailing list and social media
>>         To: Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com
>>         <mailto:rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>>
>>         Cc: NCSG EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is
>>         <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>>
>>
>>
>>         Thanks For the threat.
>>
>>         Let me know if a warning has been issued to Muller. And What
>>         action has been taken on my complaint. By the look of it -
>>         you email is targeted, based and the approach on the subject
>>         matter is dubious. Which is in total contraventions of the
>>         ICANN Charter. The NCSG Charter is not to be read - Legally
>>         Alone - It has to be Qua the ICANN charter.
>>
>>         It is imperative to believe on the Charter in both Letter and
>>         Spirit.
>>
>>         As far as my actions in my personal capacity are - it is my
>>         business and the parties involved. Since you chose to bring
>>         it up here and document it as a reason under pressure - I
>>         thank you for this that the NCSG is willing to go against the
>>         Charter, you are willing to arm twist me.
>>
>>         Let me know.
>>
>>         -VA
>>
>>
>>         > On Jun 3, 2020, at 1:59 AM, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix
>>         <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com
>>         <mailto:rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>         >
>>         > Vaibhav,
>>         >
>>         > We are writing to you regarding the post you made on the
>>         NCSG mailing list today at 11:50 EST in the "NCSG Election
>>         Clarifications" thread, as well as a tweet from your personal
>>         Twitter account posted today at 3:11pm EST.
>>         >
>>         > After reviewing the content of your post and your tweet, we
>>         find them to be in violation of both the NCSG Charter and the
>>         ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior.
>>         >
>>         > Article 1.2 d) of the NCSG Charter reads as follows:
>>         > "Behavioral expectations of all NCSG members, include
>>         without limitation: adhering to ICANN Bylaws/Policies;
>>         supporting the bottom-up consensus model; treating others
>>         with dignity, respect, and courtesy; listening attentively
>>         and seeking to understand others; acting with honesty,
>>         sincerity, and integrity."
>>         >
>>         > Your recent interventions on the mailing list, both before
>>         and after the two problematic interventions mentioned above,
>>         are generally borderline regarding these Charter
>>         committments, but those two specifically referred here
>>         constitute a direct violation of the Charter.
>>         >
>>         > In that regard, we ask you to
>>         > 1) withdraw all the personal attacks, accusations and
>>         threats you made in on list and on social media,
>>         > 2) refrain from any further language that could be in
>>         violation of the NCSG Charter, both on list and on social media,
>>         > 2) engage with the mailing list solely on policy matters
>>         until the elections are complete, that is until results are
>>         announced on or after the 17th of June.
>>         >
>>         > More generally we also invite you to reconsider how you
>>         understand your engagement with NCSG.
>>         >
>>         > Any future failure to abide by any of the three points
>>         above, or any future behavior in violation of the NCSG
>>         Charter, could lead to your immediate suspension from the
>>         mailing list and a further review of your membership status
>>         by the NCSG Executive Committee.
>>         >
>>         > We thank you in advance for your cooperation on this matter.
>>         >
>>         > Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix, on behalf of the NCSG Executive
>>         Committee
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     NCSG-EC mailing list
>>     NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>     https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200602/7a9f21ed/attachment.htm>

From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Wed Jun  3 00:49:19 2020
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 17:49:19 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Regarding your recent interventions on the NCSG
 mailing list and social media
In-Reply-To: <87dbfde9-f08c-bf0d-fe40-2d40eec7831d@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <CAPZSw-pLQSXO65MAkwrvh7o=StCnfYGSPuVyk3Pt8L9chd41jg@mail.gmail.com>
 <0A6C0473-5250-40B3-B072-D1F15D0746D9@bladebrains.com>
 <CAPZSw-qf4CERCU12-a30=A9XhmZ=xK3OU7KyZRa=dcHH7fNsXw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPZSw-p=WBSF+YXLWb8LcCQdGAgMZBN3NWh4xK1fbDbNPDNFcw@mail.gmail.com>
 <630ABEA0-42FD-4FDC-8202-C95770434237@ipjustice.org>
 <CAPZSw-oiELwuZFj87owxpF1BmpxDk=+POQDQrret+osj3VRstA@mail.gmail.com>
 <87dbfde9-f08c-bf0d-fe40-2d40eec7831d@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-rbU2v41iFLgq-w9mr-qcBhG6qN2ESFcOFm7qTf9XdV_A@mail.gmail.com>

It's fine. At this point it just has to not start again. We're missing
Ioana and Raoul but its getting late EU time, I doubt there's be opposition
to the moderation of Vaibhav, and this is time sensitive anyway, So I guess
Rafik as soon as you can! thanks

On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 5:42 PM Stephanie E Perrin via NCSG-EC <
ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:

> good with me, and i apologize for re-responding to him, a whole flood of
> more email came in after I did it.  I was trying to respond to Amr's
> calling out of NCSG leadership for not shutting this behaviour down.
>
> I am in low bandwidth land....
>
> cheers Steph
> On 2020-06-02 5:21 p.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:
>
> Good with me. It's indeed a high risk situation...
>
> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 5:20 PM Robin Gross <robin at ipjustice.org> wrote:
>
>> I propose that we moderate his posts to the discuss list beginning
>> immediately.  Rafik has the necessary rights and is ready to do it for us.
>>
>> He can post on substantive policy, but these accusations, threats, and
>> rants will no longer be posted is my proposal.
>>
>> Please respond ASAP.
>>
>> Best,
>> Robin
>>
>> On Jun 2, 2020, at 2:06 PM, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC <
>> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>
>> Aaaand he just complained about the email, on Twitter.
>> https://twitter.com/thevaibhavag/status/1267924627071909901
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 4:58 PM Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <
>> rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I suppose the EC list has limited posting privileges, so putting his
>>> answer here.
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>> From: Vaibhav Aggarwal, Catalyst & Group CEO <va at bladebrains.com>
>>> Date: Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 4:55 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Regarding your recent interventions on the NCSG mailing
>>> list and social media
>>> To: Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: NCSG EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks For the threat.
>>>
>>> Let me know if a warning has been issued to Muller. And What action has
>>> been taken on my complaint. By the look of it - you email is targeted,
>>> based and the approach on the subject matter is dubious. Which is in total
>>> contraventions of the ICANN Charter. The NCSG Charter is not to be read -
>>> Legally Alone - It has to be Qua the ICANN charter.
>>>
>>> It is imperative to believe on the Charter in both Letter and Spirit.
>>>
>>> As far as my actions in my personal capacity are - it is my business and
>>> the parties involved. Since you chose to bring it up here and document it
>>> as a reason under pressure - I thank you for this that the NCSG is willing
>>> to go against the Charter, you are willing to arm twist me.
>>>
>>> Let me know.
>>>
>>> -VA
>>>
>>>
>>> > On Jun 3, 2020, at 1:59 AM, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <
>>> rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Vaibhav,
>>> >
>>> > We are writing to you regarding the post you made on the NCSG mailing
>>> list today at 11:50 EST in the "NCSG Election Clarifications" thread, as
>>> well as a tweet from your personal Twitter account posted today at 3:11pm
>>> EST.
>>> >
>>> > After reviewing the content of your post and your tweet, we find them
>>> to be in violation of both the NCSG Charter and the ICANN Expected
>>> Standards of Behavior.
>>> >
>>> > Article 1.2 d) of the NCSG Charter reads as follows:
>>> > "Behavioral expectations of all NCSG members, include without
>>> limitation: adhering to ICANN Bylaws/Policies; supporting the bottom-up
>>> consensus model; treating others with dignity, respect, and courtesy;
>>> listening attentively and seeking to understand others; acting with
>>> honesty, sincerity, and integrity."
>>> >
>>> > Your recent interventions on the mailing list, both before and after
>>> the two problematic interventions mentioned above, are generally borderline
>>> regarding these Charter committments, but those two specifically referred
>>> here constitute a direct violation of the Charter.
>>> >
>>> > In that regard, we ask you to
>>> > 1) withdraw all the personal attacks, accusations and threats you made
>>> in on list and on social media,
>>> > 2) refrain from any further language that could be in violation of the
>>> NCSG Charter, both on list and on social media,
>>> > 2) engage with the mailing list solely on policy matters until the
>>> elections are complete, that is until results are announced on or after the
>>> 17th of June.
>>> >
>>> > More generally we also invite you to reconsider how you understand
>>> your engagement with NCSG.
>>> >
>>> > Any future failure to abide by any of the three points above, or any
>>> future behavior in violation of the NCSG Charter, could lead to your
>>> immediate suspension from the mailing list and a further review of your
>>> membership status by the NCSG Executive Committee.
>>> >
>>> > We thank you in advance for your cooperation on this matter.
>>> >
>>> > Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix, on behalf of the NCSG Executive Committee
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing listNCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.ishttps://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200602/5eb95288/attachment.htm>

From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Wed Jun  3 03:28:48 2020
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 20:28:48 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Vaibhav
In-Reply-To: <11389446-0b38-6626-8f67-d958cd405fc3@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <CAPZSw-oSoWxys+Kg9bsmWoQzjtQQKHj2s_ETfAeMrdRG=A_5sw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5b8d6fc9-66a3-0718-01bc-e4e3cc3498c7@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <B3E5A187-BA89-49EC-945D-574375744A30@ipjustice.org>
 <CAPZSw-p3ZuMfAxhqQP=_AjhpFxxeUnuevT0Fs4ksxjo7d0UorA@mail.gmail.com>
 <11389446-0b38-6626-8f67-d958cd405fc3@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-oYWCYHKwiOUXMRzahzLJA8wcvy8EMZKHKz105_a_cigQ@mail.gmail.com>

I got the confirmation from Rafik that Vaibhav is now on filter mode.

I'll start another thread to deal with the technical side of that...

But for the main issue, I suggest we leave it at that and filter everything
until the election is over, and take a second look by then.

Also, he seems to imply he wants to file a complaint against Milton. I
guess we should still reply to that - something like if you want to file a
complaint, you have to do it in writing to the Chair?

Let me know. Hopefully with the filter in place and maybe a few more
reminders if more people try to keep the discussion rolling, we can put
that behind us and move on with our lives...

Thanks,

On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 5:22 PM Stephanie E Perrin via NCSG-EC <
ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:

> Looks fine to me.  Thanks for doing this Raphael!
>
> SP
> On 2020-06-02 2:19 p.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> This was not my initial interpretation of his message either, but I can
> see how and why you can interpret it that way Steph.
>
> But I'm not sure that the point you are raising should be addressed in the
> context of the EC. It has ramifications into both your history as a NCSG
> chair, and the "issues" with our rigid gender rules that now put you in a
> situation where you are (almost) elected by default. The interpretation you
> put forward is legitimate in your circumstances, but it has to be inferred,
> from a rather complex situation and long-standing situation. Whats going on
> with Vaibhav though is rather straightforward and can be addressed right
> away.
>
> This is what I plan to send him later today, with your agreement:
>
> "Vaibhav,
>
> We are writing to you regarding the post you made on the NCSG mailing list
> at 11:50 EST in the "NCSG Election Clarifications" thread.
>
> After reviewing the content of your post, we find it to be in violation of
> both the NCSG Charter and the ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior.
>
> Article 1.2 d) of the NCSG Charter reads as follows:
> "Behavioral expectations of all NCSG members, include without limitation:
> adhering to ICANN Bylaws/Policies; supporting the bottom-up consensus
> model; treating others with dignity, respect, and courtesy; listening
> attentively and seeking to understand others; acting with honesty,
> sincerity, and integrity."
>
> Your recent interventions on the mailing list were generally borderline
> regarding these Charter committments, and the one we referred to above
> constitutes a direct violation.
>
> We would kindly ask you to reconsider how you understand your involvement
> with NCSG and withdraw the personal attacks, accusations and threats you
> made in that post.
>
> Any further post on the NCSG mailing list which would be found in
> violation of the NCSG Charter could lead to your suspension from the
> mailing list and a further review of your membership status by the NCSG
> Executive Committee.
>
> We thank you in advance for your cooperation on this matter.
>
> Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix, on behalf of the NCSG Executive Committee
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 1:53 PM Robin Gross via NCSG-EC <
> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>
>> I didn?t interpret Milton?s message as being hurtful but more of what we
>> face every election - people imaging ways of using the existing ballot and
>> rules to achieve various results.  It isn?t the first time we?ve had
>> abstain / NOTA conversations and probably won?t be the last.
>>
>> Best,
>> Robin
>>
>> On Jun 2, 2020, at 10:04 AM, Stephanie E Perrin via NCSG-EC <
>> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>
>> I just responded to James' comment, in hopes that this would douse the
>> flames.  I also resent the thread of reminders about the election
>> process....I trust it made it to the list.
>>
>> I agree that whoever this Agarwal guy is, an offlist note is required.  I
>> would really appreciate it if you did it, because frankly it looks like I
>> am retaliating and might serve to escalate matters.
>>
>> I also think Milton is out of line.  I am well aware of how much he would
>> like me not to run, but to suggest to the list that they send me a message
>> about how unwelcome I am, by voting abstain....well, besides being hurtful,
>> I think it is a kind of electioneering that ought to be discouraged.
>> Encourage people to vote for your candidate of choice, sure.
>>
>> I also think that encouraging me to step down so the EC can appoint the
>> person they really want raises all kinds of questions about how fair the
>> election process is.
>>
>> Just my two cents.
>>
>> SP
>> On 2020-06-02 12:57 p.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:
>>
>> Hi all
>>
>> What he said to Milton is disrespectful, and contains specific
>> accusations as well as threats. I think he needs to be reminded off-list of
>> the expected standards of behavior at ICANN and encouraged to withdraw what
>> he said and eventually apologize. If he keeps lashing on, then to me thats
>> a case of temporary suspension from the mailing list with further review on
>> our side.
>>
>> Milton is harsh, and I also think he should exercise restraint in such
>> circumstances, and it would be fair game to remind him. His point could be
>> made without certain words, irrespective of their being "true" or not. But
>> Vaibhav's surely went way over the line as far as standards of behavior are
>> concerned, much more than Milton ever did.
>>
>> I know you don't like to play the cop Steph, but I do think it's
>> required, unfortunately. If you don't feel like it, I can volunteer, or
>> someone else can go ahead too.
>>
>> But let's quickly discuss first; let me know what you all think.
>>
>> Have a nice day,
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing listNCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.ishttps://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing listNCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.ishttps://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200602/a63441b8/attachment.htm>

From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Wed Jun  3 03:31:23 2020
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 20:31:23 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Moderation rights on NCSG discuss
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-q00dMzyuasWT4Z2PtneLM92kv36BE2seQx8VQz2qwP3A@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

I think some of us (2 or 3 should be sufficient) should have moderation
rights on the mailing list, and know how to use them, so that we can deal
with the filtered messages from Vaibhav, and in the future put do the same
as a quick preventative measure, with immediate but subsequent review by
the EC.

Maryam (along with Rafik) has rights to the list and can give moderation
rights to others too. I'd be glad to volunteer for moderation.

As for the future, I'm thinking that, even in case of individual
misjudgment by the moderator, the consequences are relatively small, and
they are far smaller than the consequences of letting such flame wars go
for too long.

And in any case, given that we can't hard lock or delete threads and
messages, this kind of measure appears imperative in view of the recent
(and less recent) experiences...

Let me know!

best,
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200602/75ea913a/attachment.htm>

From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Wed Jun  3 03:35:41 2020
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (U Of T)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 20:35:41 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Vaibhav
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-oYWCYHKwiOUXMRzahzLJA8wcvy8EMZKHKz105_a_cigQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPZSw-oYWCYHKwiOUXMRzahzLJA8wcvy8EMZKHKz105_a_cigQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E49367C2-9824-4C4E-AF13-26370DA6B27A@mail.utoronto.ca>

He has sent me such a direct complaint. No specifics of course.  I guess i have to respond. He is demanding I make Milton apologize on the list.  Advice welcome.
Steph

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 2, 2020, at 20:29, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I got the confirmation from Rafik that Vaibhav is now on filter mode.
> 
> I'll start another thread to deal with the technical side of that...
> 
> But for the main issue, I suggest we leave it at that and filter everything until the election is over, and take a second look by then. 
> 
> Also, he seems to imply he wants to file a complaint against Milton. I guess we should still reply to that - something like if you want to file a complaint, you have to do it in writing to the Chair?
> 
> Let me know. Hopefully with the filter in place and maybe a few more reminders if more people try to keep the discussion rolling, we can put that behind us and move on with our lives... 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 5:22 PM Stephanie E Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>> Looks fine to me.  Thanks for doing this Raphael!
>> 
>> SP
>> 
>> On 2020-06-02 2:19 p.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> This was not my initial interpretation of his message either, but I can see how and why you can interpret it that way Steph. 
>>> 
>>> But I'm not sure that the point you are raising should be addressed in the context of the EC. It has ramifications into both your history as a NCSG chair, and the "issues" with our rigid gender rules that now put you in a situation where you are (almost) elected by default. The interpretation you put forward is legitimate in your circumstances, but it has to be inferred, from a rather complex situation and long-standing situation. Whats going on with Vaibhav though is rather straightforward and can be addressed right away.
>>> 
>>> This is what I plan to send him later today, with your agreement:
>>> 
>>> "Vaibhav,
>>> 
>>> We are writing to you regarding the post you made on the NCSG mailing list at 11:50 EST in the "NCSG Election Clarifications" thread.
>>> 
>>> After reviewing the content of your post, we find it to be in violation of both the NCSG Charter and the ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior.
>>> 
>>> Article 1.2 d) of the NCSG Charter reads as follows:
>>> "Behavioral expectations of all NCSG members, include without limitation: adhering to ICANN Bylaws/Policies; supporting the bottom-up consensus model; treating others with dignity, respect, and courtesy; listening attentively and seeking to understand others; acting with honesty, sincerity, and integrity."
>>> 
>>> Your recent interventions on the mailing list were generally borderline regarding these Charter committments, and the one we referred to above constitutes a direct violation. 
>>> 
>>> We would kindly ask you to reconsider how you understand your involvement with NCSG and withdraw the personal attacks, accusations and threats you made in that post. 
>>> 
>>> Any further post on the NCSG mailing list which would be found in violation of the NCSG Charter could lead to your suspension from the mailing list and a further review of your membership status by the NCSG Executive Committee.
>>> 
>>> We thank you in advance for your cooperation on this matter.
>>> 
>>> Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix, on behalf of the NCSG Executive Committee
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 1:53 PM Robin Gross via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>>> I didn?t interpret Milton?s message as being hurtful but more of what we face every election - people imaging ways of using the existing ballot and rules to achieve various results.  It isn?t the first time we?ve had abstain / NOTA conversations and probably won?t be the last.
>>>> 
>>>> Best,
>>>> Robin
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jun 2, 2020, at 10:04 AM, Stephanie E Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I just responded to James' comment, in hopes that this would douse the flames.  I also resent the thread of reminders about the election process....I trust it made it to the list.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I agree that whoever this Agarwal guy is, an offlist note is required.  I would really appreciate it if you did it, because frankly it looks like I am retaliating and might serve to escalate matters.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I also think Milton is out of line.  I am well aware of how much he would like me not to run, but to suggest to the list that they send me a message about how unwelcome I am, by voting abstain....well, besides being hurtful, I think it is a kind of electioneering that ought to be discouraged.  Encourage people to vote for your candidate of choice, sure.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I also think that encouraging me to step down so the EC can appoint the person they really want raises all kinds of questions about how fair the election process is.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Just my two cents.
>>>>> 
>>>>> SP
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 2020-06-02 12:57 p.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> What he said to Milton is disrespectful, and contains specific accusations as well as threats. I think he needs to be reminded off-list of the expected standards of behavior at ICANN and encouraged to withdraw what he said and eventually apologize. If he keeps lashing on, then to me thats a case of temporary suspension from the mailing list with further review on our side. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Milton is harsh, and I also think he should exercise restraint in such circumstances, and it would be fair game to remind him. His point could be made without certain words, irrespective of their being "true" or not. But Vaibhav's surely went way over the line as far as standards of behavior are concerned, much more than Milton ever did. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I know you don't like to play the cop Steph, but I do think it's required, unfortunately. If you don't feel like it, I can volunteer, or someone else can go ahead too.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> But let's quickly discuss first; let me know what you all think.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Have a nice day, 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200602/2ec63448/attachment.htm>

From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Wed Jun  3 04:21:47 2020
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (U Of T)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 21:21:47 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Moderation rights on NCSG discuss
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-q00dMzyuasWT4Z2PtneLM92kv36BE2seQx8VQz2qwP3A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPZSw-q00dMzyuasWT4Z2PtneLM92kv36BE2seQx8VQz2qwP3A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <546206E4-9680-4516-9DB8-2B28FEAE1403@mail.utoronto.ca>

Great idea!  The idea of a sergeant at arms came up during the Farzi/Ayden dispute.  I guess we need it, thanks for volunteering.
SP

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 2, 2020, at 20:33, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Dear all,
> 
> I think some of us (2 or 3 should be sufficient) should have moderation rights on the mailing list, and know how to use them, so that we can deal with the filtered messages from Vaibhav, and in the future put do the same as a quick preventative measure, with immediate but subsequent review by the EC.
> 
> Maryam (along with Rafik) has rights to the list and can give moderation rights to others too. I'd be glad to volunteer for moderation.
> 
> As for the future, I'm thinking that, even in case of individual misjudgment by the moderator, the consequences are relatively small, and they are far smaller than the consequences of letting such flame wars go for too long. 
> 
> And in any case, given that we can't hard lock or delete threads and messages, this kind of measure appears imperative in view of the recent (and less recent) experiences...
> 
> Let me know!
> 
> best,
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec



From plommer at gmail.com  Wed Jun  3 12:15:20 2020
From: plommer at gmail.com (Raoul Plommer)
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2020 12:15:20 +0300
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Vaibhav
In-Reply-To: <E49367C2-9824-4C4E-AF13-26370DA6B27A@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <CAPZSw-oYWCYHKwiOUXMRzahzLJA8wcvy8EMZKHKz105_a_cigQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E49367C2-9824-4C4E-AF13-26370DA6B27A@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <CADirp9SvkpMpjh51R243FKC4gpFvCzwCiwx6pWPJRuTST+LKVQ@mail.gmail.com>

Milton has nothing to apologise for, as far as I'm concerned. I might've
been even less polite, had I seen this ridiculous energy waster yesterday.

-Raoul

On Wed, 3 Jun 2020 at 03:36, U Of T via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>
wrote:

> He has sent me such a direct complaint. No specifics of course.  I guess i
> have to respond. He is demanding I make Milton apologize on the list.
> Advice welcome.
> Steph
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 2, 2020, at 20:29, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <
> rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ?
> I got the confirmation from Rafik that Vaibhav is now on filter mode.
>
> I'll start another thread to deal with the technical side of that...
>
> But for the main issue, I suggest we leave it at that and filter
> everything until the election is over, and take a second look by then.
>
> Also, he seems to imply he wants to file a complaint against Milton. I
> guess we should still reply to that - something like if you want to file a
> complaint, you have to do it in writing to the Chair?
>
> Let me know. Hopefully with the filter in place and maybe a few more
> reminders if more people try to keep the discussion rolling, we can put
> that behind us and move on with our lives...
>
> Thanks,
>
> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 5:22 PM Stephanie E Perrin via NCSG-EC <
> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>
>> Looks fine to me.  Thanks for doing this Raphael!
>>
>> SP
>> On 2020-06-02 2:19 p.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> This was not my initial interpretation of his message either, but I can
>> see how and why you can interpret it that way Steph.
>>
>> But I'm not sure that the point you are raising should be addressed in
>> the context of the EC. It has ramifications into both your history as a
>> NCSG chair, and the "issues" with our rigid gender rules that now put you
>> in a situation where you are (almost) elected by default. The
>> interpretation you put forward is legitimate in your circumstances, but it
>> has to be inferred, from a rather complex situation and long-standing
>> situation. Whats going on with Vaibhav though is rather straightforward and
>> can be addressed right away.
>>
>> This is what I plan to send him later today, with your agreement:
>>
>> "Vaibhav,
>>
>> We are writing to you regarding the post you made on the NCSG mailing
>> list at 11:50 EST in the "NCSG Election Clarifications" thread.
>>
>> After reviewing the content of your post, we find it to be in violation
>> of both the NCSG Charter and the ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior.
>>
>> Article 1.2 d) of the NCSG Charter reads as follows:
>> "Behavioral expectations of all NCSG members, include without limitation:
>> adhering to ICANN Bylaws/Policies; supporting the bottom-up consensus
>> model; treating others with dignity, respect, and courtesy; listening
>> attentively and seeking to understand others; acting with honesty,
>> sincerity, and integrity."
>>
>> Your recent interventions on the mailing list were generally borderline
>> regarding these Charter committments, and the one we referred to above
>> constitutes a direct violation.
>>
>> We would kindly ask you to reconsider how you understand your involvement
>> with NCSG and withdraw the personal attacks, accusations and threats you
>> made in that post.
>>
>> Any further post on the NCSG mailing list which would be found in
>> violation of the NCSG Charter could lead to your suspension from the
>> mailing list and a further review of your membership status by the NCSG
>> Executive Committee.
>>
>> We thank you in advance for your cooperation on this matter.
>>
>> Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix, on behalf of the NCSG Executive Committee
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 1:53 PM Robin Gross via NCSG-EC <
>> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>
>>> I didn?t interpret Milton?s message as being hurtful but more of what we
>>> face every election - people imaging ways of using the existing ballot and
>>> rules to achieve various results.  It isn?t the first time we?ve had
>>> abstain / NOTA conversations and probably won?t be the last.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Robin
>>>
>>> On Jun 2, 2020, at 10:04 AM, Stephanie E Perrin via NCSG-EC <
>>> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>>
>>> I just responded to James' comment, in hopes that this would douse the
>>> flames.  I also resent the thread of reminders about the election
>>> process....I trust it made it to the list.
>>>
>>> I agree that whoever this Agarwal guy is, an offlist note is required.
>>> I would really appreciate it if you did it, because frankly it looks like I
>>> am retaliating and might serve to escalate matters.
>>>
>>> I also think Milton is out of line.  I am well aware of how much he
>>> would like me not to run, but to suggest to the list that they send me a
>>> message about how unwelcome I am, by voting abstain....well, besides being
>>> hurtful, I think it is a kind of electioneering that ought to be
>>> discouraged.  Encourage people to vote for your candidate of choice, sure.
>>>
>>> I also think that encouraging me to step down so the EC can appoint the
>>> person they really want raises all kinds of questions about how fair the
>>> election process is.
>>>
>>> Just my two cents.
>>>
>>> SP
>>> On 2020-06-02 12:57 p.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all
>>>
>>> What he said to Milton is disrespectful, and contains specific
>>> accusations as well as threats. I think he needs to be reminded off-list of
>>> the expected standards of behavior at ICANN and encouraged to withdraw what
>>> he said and eventually apologize. If he keeps lashing on, then to me thats
>>> a case of temporary suspension from the mailing list with further review on
>>> our side.
>>>
>>> Milton is harsh, and I also think he should exercise restraint in such
>>> circumstances, and it would be fair game to remind him. His point could be
>>> made without certain words, irrespective of their being "true" or not. But
>>> Vaibhav's surely went way over the line as far as standards of behavior are
>>> concerned, much more than Milton ever did.
>>>
>>> I know you don't like to play the cop Steph, but I do think it's
>>> required, unfortunately. If you don't feel like it, I can volunteer, or
>>> someone else can go ahead too.
>>>
>>> But let's quickly discuss first; let me know what you all think.
>>>
>>> Have a nice day,
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NCSG-EC mailing listNCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.ishttps://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing listNCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.ishttps://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200603/c1387893/attachment.htm>

From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Wed Jun  3 17:04:40 2020
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix)
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2020 10:04:40 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Vaibhav
In-Reply-To: <CADirp9SvkpMpjh51R243FKC4gpFvCzwCiwx6pWPJRuTST+LKVQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPZSw-oYWCYHKwiOUXMRzahzLJA8wcvy8EMZKHKz105_a_cigQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E49367C2-9824-4C4E-AF13-26370DA6B27A@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CADirp9SvkpMpjh51R243FKC4gpFvCzwCiwx6pWPJRuTST+LKVQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-qGZjmg3eLCLB=VkpE6HTmqDwzL6gtfp-5w3wnM=8_NUw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all

Good morning, and I hope you all enjoyed a good night's sleep...

First about the guy:

He has shown no willingness to do anything besides continue on the same
track. He posted on the list *and* on social media *after* the warning, and
probably realizing he had been moderated from the NCSG list, took to the
NCUC list.

There is also now an "official" request by James to look into his
membership status (raised directly with Stephanie and Bruna (putting me in
cc, hence I inform you here))

Irrespective of the last point, the rest is enough to me to warrant his
immediate removal, his "complaint" against Milton notwithstanding.

We can blame ourselves for letting things heat up and failing to moderate
(technically speaking) quickly enough, but he's the one to blame for
disregarding pretty much every point from our warning and actively
circumventing it.

As to the complaint re Milton, the furthest I would be willing to go would
be to send a reminder to Milton, encouraging him to exercise utmost caution
in his choice of words when faced with disruptive behavior on list, in the
multicultural context that is ours.

I will be in touch with Bruna regarding moderating him from the NCUC
mailing list as well. And let me know your thoughts on the main issue.

Have a nice day,



On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 5:15 AM Raoul Plommer <plommer at gmail.com> wrote:

> Milton has nothing to apologise for, as far as I'm concerned. I might've
> been even less polite, had I seen this ridiculous energy waster yesterday.
>
> -Raoul
>
> On Wed, 3 Jun 2020 at 03:36, U Of T via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>
> wrote:
>
>> He has sent me such a direct complaint. No specifics of course.  I guess
>> i have to respond. He is demanding I make Milton apologize on the list.
>> Advice welcome.
>> Steph
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jun 2, 2020, at 20:29, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <
>> rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> I got the confirmation from Rafik that Vaibhav is now on filter mode.
>>
>> I'll start another thread to deal with the technical side of that...
>>
>> But for the main issue, I suggest we leave it at that and filter
>> everything until the election is over, and take a second look by then.
>>
>> Also, he seems to imply he wants to file a complaint against Milton. I
>> guess we should still reply to that - something like if you want to file a
>> complaint, you have to do it in writing to the Chair?
>>
>> Let me know. Hopefully with the filter in place and maybe a few more
>> reminders if more people try to keep the discussion rolling, we can put
>> that behind us and move on with our lives...
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 5:22 PM Stephanie E Perrin via NCSG-EC <
>> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>
>>> Looks fine to me.  Thanks for doing this Raphael!
>>>
>>> SP
>>> On 2020-06-02 2:19 p.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> This was not my initial interpretation of his message either, but I can
>>> see how and why you can interpret it that way Steph.
>>>
>>> But I'm not sure that the point you are raising should be addressed in
>>> the context of the EC. It has ramifications into both your history as a
>>> NCSG chair, and the "issues" with our rigid gender rules that now put you
>>> in a situation where you are (almost) elected by default. The
>>> interpretation you put forward is legitimate in your circumstances, but it
>>> has to be inferred, from a rather complex situation and long-standing
>>> situation. Whats going on with Vaibhav though is rather straightforward and
>>> can be addressed right away.
>>>
>>> This is what I plan to send him later today, with your agreement:
>>>
>>> "Vaibhav,
>>>
>>> We are writing to you regarding the post you made on the NCSG mailing
>>> list at 11:50 EST in the "NCSG Election Clarifications" thread.
>>>
>>> After reviewing the content of your post, we find it to be in violation
>>> of both the NCSG Charter and the ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior.
>>>
>>> Article 1.2 d) of the NCSG Charter reads as follows:
>>> "Behavioral expectations of all NCSG members, include without
>>> limitation: adhering to ICANN Bylaws/Policies; supporting the bottom-up
>>> consensus model; treating others with dignity, respect, and courtesy;
>>> listening attentively and seeking to understand others; acting with
>>> honesty, sincerity, and integrity."
>>>
>>> Your recent interventions on the mailing list were generally borderline
>>> regarding these Charter committments, and the one we referred to above
>>> constitutes a direct violation.
>>>
>>> We would kindly ask you to reconsider how you understand your
>>> involvement with NCSG and withdraw the personal attacks, accusations and
>>> threats you made in that post.
>>>
>>> Any further post on the NCSG mailing list which would be found in
>>> violation of the NCSG Charter could lead to your suspension from the
>>> mailing list and a further review of your membership status by the NCSG
>>> Executive Committee.
>>>
>>> We thank you in advance for your cooperation on this matter.
>>>
>>> Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix, on behalf of the NCSG Executive Committee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 1:53 PM Robin Gross via NCSG-EC <
>>> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I didn?t interpret Milton?s message as being hurtful but more of what
>>>> we face every election - people imaging ways of using the existing ballot
>>>> and rules to achieve various results.  It isn?t the first time we?ve had
>>>> abstain / NOTA conversations and probably won?t be the last.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Robin
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 2, 2020, at 10:04 AM, Stephanie E Perrin via NCSG-EC <
>>>> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I just responded to James' comment, in hopes that this would douse the
>>>> flames.  I also resent the thread of reminders about the election
>>>> process....I trust it made it to the list.
>>>>
>>>> I agree that whoever this Agarwal guy is, an offlist note is required.
>>>> I would really appreciate it if you did it, because frankly it looks like I
>>>> am retaliating and might serve to escalate matters.
>>>>
>>>> I also think Milton is out of line.  I am well aware of how much he
>>>> would like me not to run, but to suggest to the list that they send me a
>>>> message about how unwelcome I am, by voting abstain....well, besides being
>>>> hurtful, I think it is a kind of electioneering that ought to be
>>>> discouraged.  Encourage people to vote for your candidate of choice, sure.
>>>>
>>>> I also think that encouraging me to step down so the EC can appoint the
>>>> person they really want raises all kinds of questions about how fair the
>>>> election process is.
>>>>
>>>> Just my two cents.
>>>>
>>>> SP
>>>> On 2020-06-02 12:57 p.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi all
>>>>
>>>> What he said to Milton is disrespectful, and contains specific
>>>> accusations as well as threats. I think he needs to be reminded off-list of
>>>> the expected standards of behavior at ICANN and encouraged to withdraw what
>>>> he said and eventually apologize. If he keeps lashing on, then to me thats
>>>> a case of temporary suspension from the mailing list with further review on
>>>> our side.
>>>>
>>>> Milton is harsh, and I also think he should exercise restraint in such
>>>> circumstances, and it would be fair game to remind him. His point could be
>>>> made without certain words, irrespective of their being "true" or not. But
>>>> Vaibhav's surely went way over the line as far as standards of behavior are
>>>> concerned, much more than Milton ever did.
>>>>
>>>> I know you don't like to play the cop Steph, but I do think it's
>>>> required, unfortunately. If you don't feel like it, I can volunteer, or
>>>> someone else can go ahead too.
>>>>
>>>> But let's quickly discuss first; let me know what you all think.
>>>>
>>>> Have a nice day,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NCSG-EC mailing listNCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.ishttps://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NCSG-EC mailing listNCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.ishttps://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200603/6c003e16/attachment.htm>

From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Wed Jun  3 18:43:30 2020
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie E Perrin)
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2020 11:43:30 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Vaibhav
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-qGZjmg3eLCLB=VkpE6HTmqDwzL6gtfp-5w3wnM=8_NUw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPZSw-oYWCYHKwiOUXMRzahzLJA8wcvy8EMZKHKz105_a_cigQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E49367C2-9824-4C4E-AF13-26370DA6B27A@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CADirp9SvkpMpjh51R243FKC4gpFvCzwCiwx6pWPJRuTST+LKVQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPZSw-qGZjmg3eLCLB=VkpE6HTmqDwzL6gtfp-5w3wnM=8_NUw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53e69840-4e78-d770-4627-ff63c1107e97@mail.utoronto.ca>

Bearing in mind the need to ensure confidentiality of formal complaints, 
which Mr. Aggarwal's latest email to me indicates that this is, I 
reached out to Milton.? He is not prepared to apologize to Mr Aggarwal 
on the list.?? i am about to inform Mr. A of this fact, and that I have 
reviewed the messages in question and not only do not think he has a 
valid complaint, but concur with the EC that his behaviour on the list 
violates our acceptable standards. Do you agree with this assessment?

I suggest we review his membership after the elections are over. in the 
meantime, if you believe that his conduct after the warning in private 
was issued continues to be outside the boundaries of acceptable 
behaviour, please point me to the evidence and I will inform him that 
the NCSG-EC has removed him from the list.? Period of removal should be 
temporary in my view, pending removal of membership if indeed he does 
not qualify on grounds of his commercial activities.

SP

On 2020-06-03 10:04 a.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix wrote:
> Hi all
>
> Good morning, and I hope you all enjoyed a good night's sleep...
>
> First about the guy:
>
> He has shown no willingness to do anything besides continue on the 
> same track. He posted on the list *and* on social media *after* the 
> warning, and probably realizing he had been moderated from?the NCSG 
> list, took to the NCUC list.
>
> There is also now an "official" request by James to look into his 
> membership status (raised directly with Stephanie and Bruna (putting 
> me in cc, hence I inform you here))
>
> Irrespective of the last point, the rest is enough to me to warrant 
> his immediate removal, his "complaint" against Milton notwithstanding.
>
> We can blame ourselves for letting things heat up and failing to 
> moderate (technically speaking) quickly enough, but he's the one to 
> blame for disregarding pretty much every point from our warning and 
> actively circumventing it.
>
> As to the complaint re Milton, the furthest I would be willing to go 
> would be to send a reminder to Milton, encouraging him to exercise 
> utmost caution in his choice of words when faced with disruptive 
> behavior on list, in the multicultural context that is ours.
>
> I will be in touch with Bruna regarding moderating him from the NCUC 
> mailing list as well. And let me know your thoughts on the main issue.
>
> Have a nice day,
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 5:15 AM Raoul Plommer <plommer at gmail.com 
> <mailto:plommer at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Milton has nothing to apologise for, as far as I'm concerned. I
>     might've been even less polite, had I seen this ridiculous energy
>     waster yesterday.
>
>     -Raoul
>
>     On Wed, 3 Jun 2020 at 03:36, U Of T via NCSG-EC
>     <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>
>         He has sent me such a direct complaint. No specifics of
>         course.? I guess i have to respond. He is demanding I make
>         Milton apologize on the list.? Advice welcome.
>         Steph
>
>         Sent from my iPhone
>
>>         On Jun 2, 2020, at 20:29, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix
>>         <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com
>>         <mailto:rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>         ?
>>         I got the confirmation from Rafik that Vaibhav is now on
>>         filter mode.
>>
>>         I'll start another thread to deal with the technical side of
>>         that...
>>
>>         But for the main issue, I suggest we leave it at that and
>>         filter everything until the election is over, and take a
>>         second look by then.
>>
>>         Also, he seems to imply he wants to file a complaint against
>>         Milton. I guess we should still reply to that - something
>>         like if you want to file a complaint, you have to do it in
>>         writing to the Chair?
>>
>>         Let me know. Hopefully with the filter in place and maybe a
>>         few more reminders if more people try to keep the discussion
>>         rolling, we can put that behind us and move on with our lives...
>>
>>         Thanks,
>>
>>         On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 5:22 PM Stephanie E Perrin via NCSG-EC
>>         <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>>
>>             Looks fine to me.? Thanks for doing this Raphael!
>>
>>             SP
>>
>>             On 2020-06-02 2:19 p.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via
>>             NCSG-EC wrote:
>>>             Hi,
>>>
>>>             This was not my initial interpretation of his message
>>>             either, but I can see how and why you can interpret it
>>>             that way Steph.
>>>
>>>             But I'm not sure that the point you are raising should
>>>             be addressed in the context of the EC. It has
>>>             ramifications into both your history as a NCSG chair,
>>>             and the "issues" with our rigid gender rules that now
>>>             put you in a situation where you are (almost) elected by
>>>             default. The interpretation you put forward is
>>>             legitimate in your circumstances, but it has to be
>>>             inferred, from a rather complex situation and
>>>             long-standing situation. Whats going on with Vaibhav
>>>             though is rather straightforward and can be addressed
>>>             right away.
>>>
>>>             This is what I plan to send him later today, with your
>>>             agreement:
>>>
>>>             "Vaibhav,
>>>
>>>             We are writing to you regarding the post you made on the
>>>             NCSG mailing list at 11:50 EST in the "NCSG Election
>>>             Clarifications" thread.
>>>
>>>             After reviewing the content of your post, we find it to
>>>             be in violation of both the NCSG Charter and the ICANN
>>>             Expected Standards of Behavior.
>>>
>>>             Article 1.2 d) of the NCSG Charter reads as follows:
>>>             "Behavioral expectations of all NCSG members, include
>>>             without limitation: adhering to ICANN Bylaws/Policies;
>>>             supporting the bottom-up consensus model; treating
>>>             others with dignity, respect, and courtesy; listening
>>>             attentively and seeking to understand others; acting
>>>             with honesty, sincerity, and integrity."
>>>
>>>             Your recent interventions on the mailing list were
>>>             generally borderline regarding these Charter
>>>             committments, and the one we referred to above
>>>             constitutes a direct violation.
>>>
>>>             We would kindly ask you to reconsider how you understand
>>>             your involvement with NCSG and withdraw the personal
>>>             attacks, accusations and threats you made in that post.
>>>
>>>             Any further post on the NCSG mailing list which would be
>>>             found in violation of the NCSG Charter could lead to
>>>             your suspension from the mailing list and a further
>>>             review of your membership status by the NCSG Executive
>>>             Committee.
>>>
>>>             We thank you in advance for your cooperation on this matter.
>>>
>>>             Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix, on behalf of the NCSG
>>>             Executive Committee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>             On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 1:53 PM Robin Gross via NCSG-EC
>>>             <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>>
>>>             wrote:
>>>
>>>                 I didn?t interpret Milton?s message as being hurtful
>>>                 but more of what we face every election - people
>>>                 imaging ways of using the existing ballot and rules
>>>                 to achieve various results.? It isn?t the first time
>>>                 we?ve had abstain / NOTA conversations and probably
>>>                 won?t be the last.
>>>
>>>                 Best,
>>>                 Robin
>>>
>>>>                 On Jun 2, 2020, at 10:04 AM, Stephanie E Perrin via
>>>>                 NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>                 <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                 I just responded to James' comment, in hopes that
>>>>                 this would douse the flames.? I also resent the
>>>>                 thread of reminders about the election process....I
>>>>                 trust it made it to the list.
>>>>
>>>>                 I agree that whoever this Agarwal guy is, an
>>>>                 offlist note is required.? I would really
>>>>                 appreciate it if you did it, because frankly it
>>>>                 looks like I am retaliating and might serve to
>>>>                 escalate matters.
>>>>
>>>>                 I also think Milton is out of line.? I am well
>>>>                 aware of how much he would like me not to run, but
>>>>                 to suggest to the list that they send me a message
>>>>                 about how unwelcome I am, by voting
>>>>                 abstain....well, besides being hurtful, I think it
>>>>                 is a kind of electioneering that ought to be
>>>>                 discouraged. Encourage people to vote for your
>>>>                 candidate of choice, sure.
>>>>
>>>>                 I also think that encouraging me to step down so
>>>>                 the EC can appoint the person they really want
>>>>                 raises all kinds of questions about how fair the
>>>>                 election process is.
>>>>
>>>>                 Just my two cents.
>>>>
>>>>                 SP
>>>>
>>>>                 On 2020-06-02 12:57 p.m., Raphael
>>>>                 Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:
>>>>>                 Hi all
>>>>>
>>>>>                 What he said to Milton is disrespectful, and
>>>>>                 contains specific accusations as well as threats.
>>>>>                 I think he needs to be reminded off-list of the
>>>>>                 expected standards of behavior at ICANN and
>>>>>                 encouraged to withdraw what he said and eventually
>>>>>                 apologize. If he keeps lashing on, then to me
>>>>>                 thats a case of temporary suspension from the
>>>>>                 mailing list with further review on our side.
>>>>>
>>>>>                 Milton is harsh, and I also think he should
>>>>>                 exercise restraint in such circumstances, and it
>>>>>                 would be fair game to remind him. His point could
>>>>>                 be made without certain words, irrespective of
>>>>>                 their being "true" or not. But Vaibhav's surely
>>>>>                 went way over the line as far as standards of
>>>>>                 behavior are concerned, much more than Milton ever
>>>>>                 did.
>>>>>
>>>>>                 I know you don't like to play the cop Steph, but I
>>>>>                 do think it's required, unfortunately. If you
>>>>>                 don't feel like it, I can volunteer, or someone
>>>>>                 else can go ahead too.
>>>>>
>>>>>                 But let's quickly discuss first; let me know what
>>>>>                 you all think.
>>>>>
>>>>>                 Have a nice day,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>                 _______________________________________________
>>>>>                 NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>>>                 NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is  <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>>>                 https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>>                 _______________________________________________
>>>>                 NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>>                 NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>>                 https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>
>>>                 _______________________________________________
>>>                 NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>                 NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>                 https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>
>>>
>>>             _______________________________________________
>>>             NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>             NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is  <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>             https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>             _______________________________________________
>>             NCSG-EC mailing list
>>             NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>             https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>
>         _______________________________________________
>         NCSG-EC mailing list
>         NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
>         https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200603/bfb62f33/attachment.htm>

From stephanie at digitaldiscretion.ca  Wed Jun  3 21:15:06 2020
From: stephanie at digitaldiscretion.ca (Stephanie E Perrin)
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2020 14:15:06 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] NCSG Mailing List
In-Reply-To: <CAGK4d0_mVF=brOedfsHpr04Ke+1TLMzRTq6tdPyycoiWKBDPyA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D2DF898B-9C76-4FF6-9DDB-9F43275378DB@bladebrains.com>
 <e8970313-e926-87e2-ad65-f50af7db31ef@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAGK4d0_mVF=brOedfsHpr04Ke+1TLMzRTq6tdPyycoiWKBDPyA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ab6c2fd8-dd62-1b42-8e6c-6219bed5d6af@digitaldiscretion.ca>

So here is what I propose to send to Peter Akinremi, subject to your 
approval.? Ideas are most welcome.


1.? Please do not resend an email that was sent in error, for which I 
have already apologized.

2.? The section of the Charter which relates to acceptable behaviour:

> 1.2 Principles for Members and LeadersThe NCSG is committed to the 
> following:

> a) Nondiscriminatory and impartial application of rules.The NCSG is 
> intended to provide a representational vehicle for all noncommercial 
> stakeholders; no noncommercial organization or noncommercial 
> individual should be denied membership and no interest-??group, 
> constituency or coalition within it denied the right to participate 
> and associate on the basis of their political views orpolicy 
> positions, or on the basis of their religious belief (or lack 
> thereof), national p.2origin, gender, sexual orientation, race or 
> ethnicity, provided they promote noncommercial interests.

> b) Transparency? All meetings, including meetings of all Committees 
> within the NCSG, must be announced in advance and participation 
> details made available to eligible participants in a timely fashion. 
> Minutes of the meetings must be released to the membership in a timely 
> fashion. Discussions on NCSG?s general email list as well as Committee 
> mailing lists shall be publicly archived. Financial reports will be 
> published on a yearly basis and within 30 days of receipt of a special 
> request by a group of members.

> c) Service standards for elected officers.Service standards for 
> leadership positions include impartiality, accountability and 
> avoidance of conflicts of interest. NCSG officers hold a collective 
> trust and are expected to be fair and responsible stewards of the 
> NCSG?s activities. The Chair in particular is expected to look after 
> the general interests of the NCSG and to be responsive to all members 
> and officers in their requests for information. Term limits and 
> regular elections, as well as removal procedures for nonperforming or 
> corrupt officers, are intended to keep officers accountable and 
> responsive.

> d) Standards of member behavior.Behavioral expectations of all NCSG 
> members, include without limitation: adhering to ICANN 
> Bylaws/Policies; supporting the bottom-??up consensus model; treating 
> others with dignity, respect, and courtesy; listening attentively and 
> seeking to understand others; acting with honesty, sincerity, and 
> integrity.

> e) Equality of participation.The NCSG is based on an integrated and 
> direct voting model and has a unified administrative structure. This 
> isdone to facilitate the achievement of consensus among noncommercial 
> stakeholders and to ensure that all members have the same access to 
> information and the same voting power regardless of which 
> Constituencies they are affiliated with.

> f) Encourage Consensus.The NCSG model seeks to encourage 
> communication, cooperation, and consensus building among an extremely 
> broad range of noncommercial interests by holding GNSO Council 
> Representative elections open to the entire NCSG membership. This will 
> ensure that candidates must appeal to a wide range of interests within 
> the NCSG and attempt to build consensus among potentially competing 
> noncommercial views for support.

The Executive Committee's functions are described here: 2.4 Executive 
Committee (EC).The NCSG-??EC?s principal functions include:

?Work with NCSG Chair to ensure that the mission and principles of the 
NCSG are met;

?Supervise and monitor NCSG elections;

?Approve new NCSG members, administer and maintain membership records, 
and determine membership status;

?Review and approve the status of all petitioning NCSG Constituencies 
subject to oversight review by the Board;

?Coordination among NCSG Constituencies;

?Resolution of disputes between NCSG Constituencies;

?After review by the NCSG members, review and approve NCSG-??PC and 
NCSG-??FC methods and procedures.

?General NCSG coordination and organization issues;

?Establish liaisons with ICANN Sponsoring Organizations, Advisory 
Committees and other structures.

2.4.1. NCSG-??EC Composition.

The NCSG Executive Committee (EC) shall be comprised of two 
representatives from each Recognized NCSG Constituency. Each Candidate 
Constituency is eligible to appoint one observer to the NCSG-??EC. The 
elected chair of the NCSG shall also serve as a full member and chair of 
the NCSG-??EC.

2.4.2. NCSG-??EC Decision making?By default NCSG-??EC decisions are made 
by full consensus of all NCSG-??EC members. Full consensus means that no 
NCSG-??EC members have objected to the proposed decision. Any exception 
to this default will be approved by the NCSG-??EC on a full consensus basis.

Our operating procedures can be found here 
https://community.icann.org/display/gnsononcomstake/Operating+Procedures.

You will find more information concerning the procedures that Mr. 
Aggarwal was disputing, under elections.? You may also find the 
procedures for removal of a member,? but there is nothing specific in 
our operating procedures about how we manage the list.? Considerable 
discretion rests with the NCSG Chair and the EC.? As you can see, 
members have already complained about this thread, and frankly it is 
very disruptive to have this kind of dispute arise in the middle of an 
election.? You may of course challenge the decision of the EC, but I 
would suggest you review the thread carefully and also the acceptable 
standards of behaviour, available here 
https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/expected-standards-2016-06-28-en 
before you jump to that conclusion.


On 2020-06-03 1:16 p.m., Akinremi Peter Taiwo wrote:
> Dear EC and Stephanie,
>
> NCSG folks would need to know the reasons why the elected 
> representative would have to remove a standing member to be able to do 
> their job. Where is it stated in the charter to block access to the 
> list. I would wait to hear from the elected representative before I 
> presented my view
>
> We are waiting please.
>
> Regards
> ?
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200603/b092fc96/attachment.htm>

From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Wed Jun  3 21:33:04 2020
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix)
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2020 14:33:04 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Vaibhav
In-Reply-To: <53e69840-4e78-d770-4627-ff63c1107e97@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <CAPZSw-oYWCYHKwiOUXMRzahzLJA8wcvy8EMZKHKz105_a_cigQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E49367C2-9824-4C4E-AF13-26370DA6B27A@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CADirp9SvkpMpjh51R243FKC4gpFvCzwCiwx6pWPJRuTST+LKVQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPZSw-qGZjmg3eLCLB=VkpE6HTmqDwzL6gtfp-5w3wnM=8_NUw@mail.gmail.com>
 <53e69840-4e78-d770-4627-ff63c1107e97@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-rFFoWLtg4OxWkkjCzHM+HVd9r2OdsyQQRPnK1row=cgg@mail.gmail.com>

Fine with your assessment re his complaint, but he has continued to @
Georgia Tech on Twitter as recently as this morning.

We can still wait until the elections are over to take a decision; there is
no practical difference between being suspended from the list or being
under post moderation, to the extent that his posts do not reach the list
without our consent, and we can consent to nothing.

That still means his vote gets to be counted though.

At this point I can go one way or another, depending on what others think.

Have a nice day,



On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 11:43 AM Stephanie E Perrin <
stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:

> Bearing in mind the need to ensure confidentiality of formal complaints,
> which Mr. Aggarwal's latest email to me indicates that this is, I reached
> out to Milton.  He is not prepared to apologize to Mr Aggarwal on the
> list.   i am about to inform Mr. A of this fact, and that I have reviewed
> the messages in question and not only do not think he has a valid
> complaint, but concur with the EC that his behaviour on the list violates
> our acceptable standards.  Do you agree with this assessment?
>
> I suggest we review his membership after the elections are over.  in the
> meantime, if you believe that his conduct after the warning in private was
> issued continues to be outside the boundaries of acceptable behaviour,
> please point me to the evidence and I will inform him that the NCSG-EC has
> removed him from the list.  Period of removal should be temporary in my
> view, pending removal of membership if indeed he does not qualify on
> grounds of his commercial activities.
>
> SP
> On 2020-06-03 10:04 a.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> Good morning, and I hope you all enjoyed a good night's sleep...
>
> First about the guy:
>
> He has shown no willingness to do anything besides continue on the same
> track. He posted on the list *and* on social media *after* the warning, and
> probably realizing he had been moderated from the NCSG list, took to the
> NCUC list.
>
> There is also now an "official" request by James to look into his
> membership status (raised directly with Stephanie and Bruna (putting me in
> cc, hence I inform you here))
>
> Irrespective of the last point, the rest is enough to me to warrant his
> immediate removal, his "complaint" against Milton notwithstanding.
>
> We can blame ourselves for letting things heat up and failing to moderate
> (technically speaking) quickly enough, but he's the one to blame for
> disregarding pretty much every point from our warning and actively
> circumventing it.
>
> As to the complaint re Milton, the furthest I would be willing to go would
> be to send a reminder to Milton, encouraging him to exercise utmost caution
> in his choice of words when faced with disruptive behavior on list, in the
> multicultural context that is ours.
>
> I will be in touch with Bruna regarding moderating him from the NCUC
> mailing list as well. And let me know your thoughts on the main issue.
>
> Have a nice day,
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 5:15 AM Raoul Plommer <plommer at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Milton has nothing to apologise for, as far as I'm concerned. I might've
>> been even less polite, had I seen this ridiculous energy waster yesterday.
>>
>> -Raoul
>>
>> On Wed, 3 Jun 2020 at 03:36, U Of T via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> He has sent me such a direct complaint. No specifics of course.  I guess
>>> i have to respond. He is demanding I make Milton apologize on the list.
>>> Advice welcome.
>>> Steph
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jun 2, 2020, at 20:29, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <
>>> rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?
>>> I got the confirmation from Rafik that Vaibhav is now on filter mode.
>>>
>>> I'll start another thread to deal with the technical side of that...
>>>
>>> But for the main issue, I suggest we leave it at that and filter
>>> everything until the election is over, and take a second look by then.
>>>
>>> Also, he seems to imply he wants to file a complaint against Milton. I
>>> guess we should still reply to that - something like if you want to file a
>>> complaint, you have to do it in writing to the Chair?
>>>
>>> Let me know. Hopefully with the filter in place and maybe a few more
>>> reminders if more people try to keep the discussion rolling, we can put
>>> that behind us and move on with our lives...
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 5:22 PM Stephanie E Perrin via NCSG-EC <
>>> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Looks fine to me.  Thanks for doing this Raphael!
>>>>
>>>> SP
>>>> On 2020-06-02 2:19 p.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> This was not my initial interpretation of his message either, but I can
>>>> see how and why you can interpret it that way Steph.
>>>>
>>>> But I'm not sure that the point you are raising should be addressed in
>>>> the context of the EC. It has ramifications into both your history as a
>>>> NCSG chair, and the "issues" with our rigid gender rules that now put you
>>>> in a situation where you are (almost) elected by default. The
>>>> interpretation you put forward is legitimate in your circumstances, but it
>>>> has to be inferred, from a rather complex situation and long-standing
>>>> situation. Whats going on with Vaibhav though is rather straightforward and
>>>> can be addressed right away.
>>>>
>>>> This is what I plan to send him later today, with your agreement:
>>>>
>>>> "Vaibhav,
>>>>
>>>> We are writing to you regarding the post you made on the NCSG mailing
>>>> list at 11:50 EST in the "NCSG Election Clarifications" thread.
>>>>
>>>> After reviewing the content of your post, we find it to be in violation
>>>> of both the NCSG Charter and the ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior.
>>>>
>>>> Article 1.2 d) of the NCSG Charter reads as follows:
>>>> "Behavioral expectations of all NCSG members, include without
>>>> limitation: adhering to ICANN Bylaws/Policies; supporting the bottom-up
>>>> consensus model; treating others with dignity, respect, and courtesy;
>>>> listening attentively and seeking to understand others; acting with
>>>> honesty, sincerity, and integrity."
>>>>
>>>> Your recent interventions on the mailing list were generally borderline
>>>> regarding these Charter committments, and the one we referred to above
>>>> constitutes a direct violation.
>>>>
>>>> We would kindly ask you to reconsider how you understand your
>>>> involvement with NCSG and withdraw the personal attacks, accusations and
>>>> threats you made in that post.
>>>>
>>>> Any further post on the NCSG mailing list which would be found in
>>>> violation of the NCSG Charter could lead to your suspension from the
>>>> mailing list and a further review of your membership status by the NCSG
>>>> Executive Committee.
>>>>
>>>> We thank you in advance for your cooperation on this matter.
>>>>
>>>> Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix, on behalf of the NCSG Executive Committee
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 1:53 PM Robin Gross via NCSG-EC <
>>>> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I didn?t interpret Milton?s message as being hurtful but more of what
>>>>> we face every election - people imaging ways of using the existing ballot
>>>>> and rules to achieve various results.  It isn?t the first time we?ve had
>>>>> abstain / NOTA conversations and probably won?t be the last.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Robin
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 2, 2020, at 10:04 AM, Stephanie E Perrin via NCSG-EC <
>>>>> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I just responded to James' comment, in hopes that this would douse the
>>>>> flames.  I also resent the thread of reminders about the election
>>>>> process....I trust it made it to the list.
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree that whoever this Agarwal guy is, an offlist note is
>>>>> required.  I would really appreciate it if you did it, because frankly it
>>>>> looks like I am retaliating and might serve to escalate matters.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also think Milton is out of line.  I am well aware of how much he
>>>>> would like me not to run, but to suggest to the list that they send me a
>>>>> message about how unwelcome I am, by voting abstain....well, besides being
>>>>> hurtful, I think it is a kind of electioneering that ought to be
>>>>> discouraged.  Encourage people to vote for your candidate of choice, sure.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also think that encouraging me to step down so the EC can appoint
>>>>> the person they really want raises all kinds of questions about how fair
>>>>> the election process is.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just my two cents.
>>>>>
>>>>> SP
>>>>> On 2020-06-02 12:57 p.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all
>>>>>
>>>>> What he said to Milton is disrespectful, and contains specific
>>>>> accusations as well as threats. I think he needs to be reminded off-list of
>>>>> the expected standards of behavior at ICANN and encouraged to withdraw what
>>>>> he said and eventually apologize. If he keeps lashing on, then to me thats
>>>>> a case of temporary suspension from the mailing list with further review on
>>>>> our side.
>>>>>
>>>>> Milton is harsh, and I also think he should exercise restraint in such
>>>>> circumstances, and it would be fair game to remind him. His point could be
>>>>> made without certain words, irrespective of their being "true" or not. But
>>>>> Vaibhav's surely went way over the line as far as standards of behavior are
>>>>> concerned, much more than Milton ever did.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know you don't like to play the cop Steph, but I do think it's
>>>>> required, unfortunately. If you don't feel like it, I can volunteer, or
>>>>> someone else can go ahead too.
>>>>>
>>>>> But let's quickly discuss first; let me know what you all think.
>>>>>
>>>>> Have a nice day,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NCSG-EC mailing listNCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.ishttps://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NCSG-EC mailing listNCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.ishttps://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>
>>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200603/c9554d89/attachment.htm>

From robin at ipjustice.org  Wed Jun  3 22:52:17 2020
From: robin at ipjustice.org (Robin Gross)
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2020 12:52:17 -0700
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Vaibhav
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-rFFoWLtg4OxWkkjCzHM+HVd9r2OdsyQQRPnK1row=cgg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPZSw-oYWCYHKwiOUXMRzahzLJA8wcvy8EMZKHKz105_a_cigQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E49367C2-9824-4C4E-AF13-26370DA6B27A@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CADirp9SvkpMpjh51R243FKC4gpFvCzwCiwx6pWPJRuTST+LKVQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPZSw-qGZjmg3eLCLB=VkpE6HTmqDwzL6gtfp-5w3wnM=8_NUw@mail.gmail.com>
 <53e69840-4e78-d770-4627-ff63c1107e97@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAPZSw-rFFoWLtg4OxWkkjCzHM+HVd9r2OdsyQQRPnK1row=cgg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7AA91717-9313-47F2-A264-1D4A5FA190EF@ipjustice.org>

Yes, given his unwillingness to stop the attacks, I think he should stay under moderation until after we are able to process the complaint that was filed regarding his membership status.  We need to follow our operating procedures regarding the handling of such complaints, and the process will take time as there are considerable due process concerns to it.  We also need to be sure that we don?t forward such complaints onto ANY publicly archived mailing lists (including this EC list) because mere allegations can be quite harmful to people?s reputations, which is what we agreed last year after the complaint Ayden filed against David was erroneously forwarded to a publicly archived list and caused significant damage before any truth to it could be ascertained.

As for the complaint Vaibhav filed against Milton, we have procedures for the handling of frivolous and vexatious complaints against members and they can be summarily disposed of without wasting any time on them.  Thanks.

Best,
Robin


> On Jun 3, 2020, at 11:33 AM, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
> 
> Fine with your assessment re his complaint, but he has continued to @ Georgia Tech on Twitter as recently as this morning. 
> 
> We can still wait until the elections are over to take a decision; there is no practical difference between being suspended from the list or being under post moderation, to the extent that his posts do not reach the list without our consent, and we can consent to nothing. 
> 
> That still means his vote gets to be counted though. 
> 
> At this point I can go one way or another, depending on what others think.
> 
> Have a nice day,
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 11:43 AM Stephanie E Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
> Bearing in mind the need to ensure confidentiality of formal complaints, which Mr. Aggarwal's latest email to me indicates that this is, I reached out to Milton.  He is not prepared to apologize to Mr Aggarwal on the list.   i am about to inform Mr. A of this fact, and that I have reviewed the messages in question and not only do not think he has a valid complaint, but concur with the EC that his behaviour on the list violates our acceptable standards.  Do you agree with this assessment?
> 
> I suggest we review his membership after the elections are over.  in the meantime, if you believe that his conduct after the warning in private was issued continues to be outside the boundaries of acceptable behaviour, please point me to the evidence and I will inform him that the NCSG-EC has removed him from the list.  Period of removal should be temporary in my view, pending removal of membership if indeed he does not qualify on grounds of his commercial activities.
> 
> SP
> On 2020-06-03 10:04 a.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix wrote:
>> Hi all
>> 
>> Good morning, and I hope you all enjoyed a good night's sleep...
>> 
>> First about the guy:
>> 
>> He has shown no willingness to do anything besides continue on the same track. He posted on the list *and* on social media *after* the warning, and probably realizing he had been moderated from the NCSG list, took to the NCUC list.
>> 
>> There is also now an "official" request by James to look into his membership status (raised directly with Stephanie and Bruna (putting me in cc, hence I inform you here))
>> 
>> Irrespective of the last point, the rest is enough to me to warrant his immediate removal, his "complaint" against Milton notwithstanding. 
>> 
>> We can blame ourselves for letting things heat up and failing to moderate (technically speaking) quickly enough, but he's the one to blame for disregarding pretty much every point from our warning and actively circumventing it.
>> 
>> As to the complaint re Milton, the furthest I would be willing to go would be to send a reminder to Milton, encouraging him to exercise utmost caution in his choice of words when faced with disruptive behavior on list, in the multicultural context that is ours. 
>> 
>> I will be in touch with Bruna regarding moderating him from the NCUC mailing list as well. And let me know your thoughts on the main issue. 
>> 
>> Have a nice day, 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 5:15 AM Raoul Plommer <plommer at gmail.com <mailto:plommer at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> Milton has nothing to apologise for, as far as I'm concerned. I might've been even less polite, had I seen this ridiculous energy waster yesterday.
>> 
>> -Raoul
>> 
>> On Wed, 3 Jun 2020 at 03:36, U Of T via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>> He has sent me such a direct complaint. No specifics of course.  I guess i have to respond. He is demanding I make Milton apologize on the list.  Advice welcome.
>> Steph
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jun 2, 2020, at 20:29, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com <mailto:rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?
>>> I got the confirmation from Rafik that Vaibhav is now on filter mode.
>>> 
>>> I'll start another thread to deal with the technical side of that...
>>> 
>>> But for the main issue, I suggest we leave it at that and filter everything until the election is over, and take a second look by then. 
>>> 
>>> Also, he seems to imply he wants to file a complaint against Milton. I guess we should still reply to that - something like if you want to file a complaint, you have to do it in writing to the Chair?
>>> 
>>> Let me know. Hopefully with the filter in place and maybe a few more reminders if more people try to keep the discussion rolling, we can put that behind us and move on with our lives... 
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 5:22 PM Stephanie E Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>>> Looks fine to me.  Thanks for doing this Raphael!
>>> 
>>> SP
>>> On 2020-06-02 2:19 p.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> 
>>>> This was not my initial interpretation of his message either, but I can see how and why you can interpret it that way Steph. 
>>>> 
>>>> But I'm not sure that the point you are raising should be addressed in the context of the EC. It has ramifications into both your history as a NCSG chair, and the "issues" with our rigid gender rules that now put you in a situation where you are (almost) elected by default. The interpretation you put forward is legitimate in your circumstances, but it has to be inferred, from a rather complex situation and long-standing situation. Whats going on with Vaibhav though is rather straightforward and can be addressed right away.
>>>> 
>>>> This is what I plan to send him later today, with your agreement:
>>>> 
>>>> "Vaibhav,
>>>> 
>>>> We are writing to you regarding the post you made on the NCSG mailing list at 11:50 EST in the "NCSG Election Clarifications" thread.
>>>> 
>>>> After reviewing the content of your post, we find it to be in violation of both the NCSG Charter and the ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior.
>>>> 
>>>> Article 1.2 d) of the NCSG Charter reads as follows:
>>>> "Behavioral expectations of all NCSG members, include without limitation: adhering to ICANN Bylaws/Policies; supporting the bottom-up consensus model; treating others with dignity, respect, and courtesy; listening attentively and seeking to understand others; acting with honesty, sincerity, and integrity."
>>>> 
>>>> Your recent interventions on the mailing list were generally borderline regarding these Charter committments, and the one we referred to above constitutes a direct violation. 
>>>> 
>>>> We would kindly ask you to reconsider how you understand your involvement with NCSG and withdraw the personal attacks, accusations and threats you made in that post. 
>>>> 
>>>> Any further post on the NCSG mailing list which would be found in violation of the NCSG Charter could lead to your suspension from the mailing list and a further review of your membership status by the NCSG Executive Committee.
>>>> 
>>>> We thank you in advance for your cooperation on this matter.
>>>> 
>>>> Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix, on behalf of the NCSG Executive Committee
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 1:53 PM Robin Gross via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>>>> I didn?t interpret Milton?s message as being hurtful but more of what we face every election - people imaging ways of using the existing ballot and rules to achieve various results.  It isn?t the first time we?ve had abstain / NOTA conversations and probably won?t be the last.
>>>> 
>>>> Best,
>>>> Robin
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jun 2, 2020, at 10:04 AM, Stephanie E Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I just responded to James' comment, in hopes that this would douse the flames.  I also resent the thread of reminders about the election process....I trust it made it to the list.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I agree that whoever this Agarwal guy is, an offlist note is required.  I would really appreciate it if you did it, because frankly it looks like I am retaliating and might serve to escalate matters.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I also think Milton is out of line.  I am well aware of how much he would like me not to run, but to suggest to the list that they send me a message about how unwelcome I am, by voting abstain....well, besides being hurtful, I think it is a kind of electioneering that ought to be discouraged.  Encourage people to vote for your candidate of choice, sure.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I also think that encouraging me to step down so the EC can appoint the person they really want raises all kinds of questions about how fair the election process is.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Just my two cents.
>>>>> 
>>>>> SP
>>>>> On 2020-06-02 12:57 p.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> What he said to Milton is disrespectful, and contains specific accusations as well as threats. I think he needs to be reminded off-list of the expected standards of behavior at ICANN and encouraged to withdraw what he said and eventually apologize. If he keeps lashing on, then to me thats a case of temporary suspension from the mailing list with further review on our side. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Milton is harsh, and I also think he should exercise restraint in such circumstances, and it would be fair game to remind him. His point could be made without certain words, irrespective of their being "true" or not. But Vaibhav's surely went way over the line as far as standards of behavior are concerned, much more than Milton ever did. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I know you don't like to play the cop Steph, but I do think it's required, unfortunately. If you don't feel like it, I can volunteer, or someone else can go ahead too.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> But let's quickly discuss first; let me know what you all think.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Have a nice day, 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec>
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200603/ab6c652b/attachment.htm>

From robin at ipjustice.org  Wed Jun  3 23:03:34 2020
From: robin at ipjustice.org (Robin Gross)
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2020 13:03:34 -0700
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Vaibhav
In-Reply-To: <7AA91717-9313-47F2-A264-1D4A5FA190EF@ipjustice.org>
References: <CAPZSw-oYWCYHKwiOUXMRzahzLJA8wcvy8EMZKHKz105_a_cigQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E49367C2-9824-4C4E-AF13-26370DA6B27A@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CADirp9SvkpMpjh51R243FKC4gpFvCzwCiwx6pWPJRuTST+LKVQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPZSw-qGZjmg3eLCLB=VkpE6HTmqDwzL6gtfp-5w3wnM=8_NUw@mail.gmail.com>
 <53e69840-4e78-d770-4627-ff63c1107e97@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAPZSw-rFFoWLtg4OxWkkjCzHM+HVd9r2OdsyQQRPnK1row=cgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <7AA91717-9313-47F2-A264-1D4A5FA190EF@ipjustice.org>
Message-ID: <62A391D8-FA1A-4089-8526-1F0D5E9AC48B@ipjustice.org>

Specifically, see the NCSG Operating Procedures for reviewing membership status on frivolous and vexatious requests:
https://community.icann.org/display/gnsononcomstake/Operating+Procedures#OperatingProcedures-169034239


II. Initial Review?.
[?]
B.  Process for Request for Review of Membership Eligibility
1.  Request for Review of membership eligibility of a NCSG Member shall be filed by sending an email to the NCSG Chair providing notice of such request, together with any evidence supporting the Request or otherwise relevant to the issues under review.  The Request shall state sufficient facts and argument that is supported by evidence which demonstrates that the Member under review is not currently eligible for NCSG membership under the category for which that Member is admitted (or any category of eligibility if applicable).  
2.  The Chair retains the right to decide in Chair?s discretion if any Request for Review is frivolous or vexatious or otherwise totally lacking in merit and may summarily deny the Request on those grounds, provided that the Chair informs the EC of such a decision simultaneously with the Requester.  Any Member of the EC may revive the summarily denied Request for Review for the next 14 days by notification of email to the EC email list requesting such revival.
3.  Within 10 days of Chair?s receipt of a valid (i.e., revived, non-frivolous, non-vexatious) Request for Review of membership, the Chair shall forward the Request for Review and any supporting documentation to the NCSG Member whose membership is under Review and shall request a response from the Member to be submitted to the EC within 21 calendar days from Member?s notification of the Request.  Simultaneous with Member?s notification, the Chair shall also send the NCSG EC Members a copy of the Request for Review and any supporting documentation provided.



> On Jun 3, 2020, at 12:52 PM, Robin Gross via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
> 
> Yes, given his unwillingness to stop the attacks, I think he should stay under moderation until after we are able to process the complaint that was filed regarding his membership status.  We need to follow our operating procedures regarding the handling of such complaints, and the process will take time as there are considerable due process concerns to it.  We also need to be sure that we don?t forward such complaints onto ANY publicly archived mailing lists (including this EC list) because mere allegations can be quite harmful to people?s reputations, which is what we agreed last year after the complaint Ayden filed against David was erroneously forwarded to a publicly archived list and caused significant damage before any truth to it could be ascertained.
> 
> As for the complaint Vaibhav filed against Milton, we have procedures for the handling of frivolous and vexatious complaints against members and they can be summarily disposed of without wasting any time on them.  Thanks.
> 
> Best,
> Robin
> 
> 
>> On Jun 3, 2020, at 11:33 AM, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>> 
>> Fine with your assessment re his complaint, but he has continued to @ Georgia Tech on Twitter as recently as this morning. 
>> 
>> We can still wait until the elections are over to take a decision; there is no practical difference between being suspended from the list or being under post moderation, to the extent that his posts do not reach the list without our consent, and we can consent to nothing. 
>> 
>> That still means his vote gets to be counted though. 
>> 
>> At this point I can go one way or another, depending on what others think.
>> 
>> Have a nice day,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 11:43 AM Stephanie E Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>> Bearing in mind the need to ensure confidentiality of formal complaints, which Mr. Aggarwal's latest email to me indicates that this is, I reached out to Milton.  He is not prepared to apologize to Mr Aggarwal on the list.   i am about to inform Mr. A of this fact, and that I have reviewed the messages in question and not only do not think he has a valid complaint, but concur with the EC that his behaviour on the list violates our acceptable standards.  Do you agree with this assessment?
>> 
>> I suggest we review his membership after the elections are over.  in the meantime, if you believe that his conduct after the warning in private was issued continues to be outside the boundaries of acceptable behaviour, please point me to the evidence and I will inform him that the NCSG-EC has removed him from the list.  Period of removal should be temporary in my view, pending removal of membership if indeed he does not qualify on grounds of his commercial activities.
>> 
>> SP
>> On 2020-06-03 10:04 a.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix wrote:
>>> Hi all
>>> 
>>> Good morning, and I hope you all enjoyed a good night's sleep...
>>> 
>>> First about the guy:
>>> 
>>> He has shown no willingness to do anything besides continue on the same track. He posted on the list *and* on social media *after* the warning, and probably realizing he had been moderated from the NCSG list, took to the NCUC list.
>>> 
>>> There is also now an "official" request by James to look into his membership status (raised directly with Stephanie and Bruna (putting me in cc, hence I inform you here))
>>> 
>>> Irrespective of the last point, the rest is enough to me to warrant his immediate removal, his "complaint" against Milton notwithstanding. 
>>> 
>>> We can blame ourselves for letting things heat up and failing to moderate (technically speaking) quickly enough, but he's the one to blame for disregarding pretty much every point from our warning and actively circumventing it.
>>> 
>>> As to the complaint re Milton, the furthest I would be willing to go would be to send a reminder to Milton, encouraging him to exercise utmost caution in his choice of words when faced with disruptive behavior on list, in the multicultural context that is ours. 
>>> 
>>> I will be in touch with Bruna regarding moderating him from the NCUC mailing list as well. And let me know your thoughts on the main issue. 
>>> 
>>> Have a nice day, 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 5:15 AM Raoul Plommer <plommer at gmail.com <mailto:plommer at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> Milton has nothing to apologise for, as far as I'm concerned. I might've been even less polite, had I seen this ridiculous energy waster yesterday.
>>> 
>>> -Raoul
>>> 
>>> On Wed, 3 Jun 2020 at 03:36, U Of T via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>>> He has sent me such a direct complaint. No specifics of course.  I guess i have to respond. He is demanding I make Milton apologize on the list.  Advice welcome.
>>> Steph
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Jun 2, 2020, at 20:29, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com <mailto:rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?
>>>> I got the confirmation from Rafik that Vaibhav is now on filter mode.
>>>> 
>>>> I'll start another thread to deal with the technical side of that...
>>>> 
>>>> But for the main issue, I suggest we leave it at that and filter everything until the election is over, and take a second look by then. 
>>>> 
>>>> Also, he seems to imply he wants to file a complaint against Milton. I guess we should still reply to that - something like if you want to file a complaint, you have to do it in writing to the Chair?
>>>> 
>>>> Let me know. Hopefully with the filter in place and maybe a few more reminders if more people try to keep the discussion rolling, we can put that behind us and move on with our lives... 
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 5:22 PM Stephanie E Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>>>> Looks fine to me.  Thanks for doing this Raphael!
>>>> 
>>>> SP
>>>> On 2020-06-02 2:19 p.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> This was not my initial interpretation of his message either, but I can see how and why you can interpret it that way Steph. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> But I'm not sure that the point you are raising should be addressed in the context of the EC. It has ramifications into both your history as a NCSG chair, and the "issues" with our rigid gender rules that now put you in a situation where you are (almost) elected by default. The interpretation you put forward is legitimate in your circumstances, but it has to be inferred, from a rather complex situation and long-standing situation. Whats going on with Vaibhav though is rather straightforward and can be addressed right away.
>>>>> 
>>>>> This is what I plan to send him later today, with your agreement:
>>>>> 
>>>>> "Vaibhav,
>>>>> 
>>>>> We are writing to you regarding the post you made on the NCSG mailing list at 11:50 EST in the "NCSG Election Clarifications" thread.
>>>>> 
>>>>> After reviewing the content of your post, we find it to be in violation of both the NCSG Charter and the ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Article 1.2 d) of the NCSG Charter reads as follows:
>>>>> "Behavioral expectations of all NCSG members, include without limitation: adhering to ICANN Bylaws/Policies; supporting the bottom-up consensus model; treating others with dignity, respect, and courtesy; listening attentively and seeking to understand others; acting with honesty, sincerity, and integrity."
>>>>> 
>>>>> Your recent interventions on the mailing list were generally borderline regarding these Charter committments, and the one we referred to above constitutes a direct violation. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> We would kindly ask you to reconsider how you understand your involvement with NCSG and withdraw the personal attacks, accusations and threats you made in that post. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Any further post on the NCSG mailing list which would be found in violation of the NCSG Charter could lead to your suspension from the mailing list and a further review of your membership status by the NCSG Executive Committee.
>>>>> 
>>>>> We thank you in advance for your cooperation on this matter.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix, on behalf of the NCSG Executive Committee
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 1:53 PM Robin Gross via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>>>>> I didn?t interpret Milton?s message as being hurtful but more of what we face every election - people imaging ways of using the existing ballot and rules to achieve various results.  It isn?t the first time we?ve had abstain / NOTA conversations and probably won?t be the last.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Robin
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jun 2, 2020, at 10:04 AM, Stephanie E Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I just responded to James' comment, in hopes that this would douse the flames.  I also resent the thread of reminders about the election process....I                                                   trust it made it to the list.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I agree that whoever this Agarwal guy is, an offlist note is required.  I would really appreciate it if you did it, because frankly it looks like I am retaliating and might serve to escalate matters.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I also think Milton is out of line.  I am well aware of how much he would like me not to run, but to suggest to the list that they send me a message about how unwelcome I am, by voting abstain....well, besides being hurtful, I think it is a kind of electioneering that ought to be discouraged.  Encourage people to vote for your candidate of choice, sure.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I also think that encouraging me to step down so the EC can appoint the person they really want raises all kinds of questions about how fair the election process is.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Just my two cents.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> SP
>>>>>> On 2020-06-02 12:57 p.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> What he said to Milton is disrespectful, and contains specific accusations as well as threats. I think he needs to be reminded off-list of the expected standards of behavior at ICANN and encouraged to withdraw what he said and eventually apologize. If he keeps lashing on, then to me thats a case of temporary suspension from the mailing list with further review on our side. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Milton is harsh, and I also think he should exercise restraint in such circumstances, and it would be fair game to remind him. His point could be made without certain words, irrespective of their being "true" or not. But Vaibhav's surely went way over the line as far as standards of behavior are concerned, much more than Milton ever did. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I know you don't like to play the cop Steph, but I do think it's required, unfortunately. If you don't feel like it, I can volunteer, or someone else can go ahead too.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> But let's quickly discuss first; let me know what you all think.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Have a nice day, 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>>>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec>
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200603/f53730d6/attachment.htm>

From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Thu Jun  4 06:35:06 2020
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix)
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2020 23:35:06 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Vaibhav
In-Reply-To: <62A391D8-FA1A-4089-8526-1F0D5E9AC48B@ipjustice.org>
References: <CAPZSw-oYWCYHKwiOUXMRzahzLJA8wcvy8EMZKHKz105_a_cigQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E49367C2-9824-4C4E-AF13-26370DA6B27A@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CADirp9SvkpMpjh51R243FKC4gpFvCzwCiwx6pWPJRuTST+LKVQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPZSw-qGZjmg3eLCLB=VkpE6HTmqDwzL6gtfp-5w3wnM=8_NUw@mail.gmail.com>
 <53e69840-4e78-d770-4627-ff63c1107e97@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAPZSw-rFFoWLtg4OxWkkjCzHM+HVd9r2OdsyQQRPnK1row=cgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <7AA91717-9313-47F2-A264-1D4A5FA190EF@ipjustice.org>
 <62A391D8-FA1A-4089-8526-1F0D5E9AC48B@ipjustice.org>
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-qPwfvyrNSRQYYwZsEfb0w2cM9n1csy-M+m805p=5i1_Q@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Robin. I understand you prefer to address the membership status
problem before the behavior?

One way or the other, I agree with the points you make. There is at least
some language in the OPs regarding summary dismissal of frivolous
complaints, which can serve as a basis for the dismissal of the current
complaint re Milton.

Before taking any further action re the dismissal of his complaint however,
I would be inclined to ensure that he is also under moderation for the NCUC
list, on which he has continued to post; again, I just want to be careful
and avoid retaliation or escalation on a parallel channel. We can consider
ourselves lucky that there has been no flare-up today despite the fact that
he's been posting.

So let's coordinate with Bruna on that; I think she might want a more
formal notice from you Steph, for the record. Could you take care of that?

Thanks and have a nice evening,



On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 4:04 PM Robin Gross via NCSG-EC <
ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:

> Specifically, see the NCSG Operating Procedures for reviewing membership
> status on frivolous and vexatious requests:
>
> https://community.icann.org/display/gnsononcomstake/Operating+Procedures#OperatingProcedures-169034239
>
>
> II. Initial Review?.
> [?]
>
> B.  Process for Request for Review of Membership Eligibility
>
> 1.  Request for Review of membership eligibility of a NCSG Member shall be
> filed by sending an email to the NCSG Chair providing notice of such
> request, together with any evidence supporting the Request or otherwise
> relevant to the issues under review.  The Request shall state sufficient
> facts and argument that is supported by evidence which demonstrates that
> the Member under review is not currently eligible for NCSG membership under
> the category for which that Member is admitted (or any category of
> eligibility if applicable).
>
> 2.  The Chair retains the right to decide in Chair?s discretion if any
> Request for Review is frivolous or vexatious or otherwise totally lacking
> in merit and may summarily deny the Request on those grounds, provided that
> the Chair informs the EC of such a decision simultaneously with the
> Requester.  Any Member of the EC may revive the summarily denied Request
> for Review for the next 14 days by notification of email to the EC email
> list requesting such revival.
>
> 3.  Within 10 days of Chair?s receipt of a valid (i.e., revived,
> non-frivolous, non-vexatious) Request for Review of membership, the Chair
> shall forward the Request for Review and any supporting documentation to
> the NCSG Member whose membership is under Review and shall request a
> response from the Member to be submitted to the EC within 21 calendar days
> from Member?s notification of the Request.  Simultaneous with Member?s
> notification, the Chair shall also send the NCSG EC Members a copy of the
> Request for Review and any supporting documentation provided.
>
>
>
> On Jun 3, 2020, at 12:52 PM, Robin Gross via NCSG-EC <
> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>
> Yes, given his unwillingness to stop the attacks, I think he should stay
> under moderation until after we are able to process the complaint that was
> filed regarding his membership status.  We need to follow our operating
> procedures regarding the handling of such complaints, and the process will
> take time as there are considerable due process concerns to it.  We also
> need to be sure that we don?t forward such complaints onto ANY publicly
> archived mailing lists (including this EC list) because mere allegations
> can be quite harmful to people?s reputations, which is what we agreed last
> year after the complaint Ayden filed against David was erroneously
> forwarded to a publicly archived list and caused significant damage before
> any truth to it could be ascertained.
>
> As for the complaint Vaibhav filed against Milton, we have procedures for
> the handling of frivolous and vexatious complaints against members and they
> can be summarily disposed of without wasting any time on them.  Thanks.
>
> Best,
> Robin
>
>
> On Jun 3, 2020, at 11:33 AM, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC <
> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>
> Fine with your assessment re his complaint, but he has continued to @
> Georgia Tech on Twitter as recently as this morning.
>
> We can still wait until the elections are over to take a decision; there
> is no practical difference between being suspended from the list or being
> under post moderation, to the extent that his posts do not reach the list
> without our consent, and we can consent to nothing.
>
> That still means his vote gets to be counted though.
>
> At this point I can go one way or another, depending on what others think.
>
> Have a nice day,
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 11:43 AM Stephanie E Perrin <
> stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
>
>> Bearing in mind the need to ensure confidentiality of formal complaints,
>> which Mr. Aggarwal's latest email to me indicates that this is, I reached
>> out to Milton.  He is not prepared to apologize to Mr Aggarwal on the
>> list.   i am about to inform Mr. A of this fact, and that I have reviewed
>> the messages in question and not only do not think he has a valid
>> complaint, but concur with the EC that his behaviour on the list violates
>> our acceptable standards.  Do you agree with this assessment?
>>
>> I suggest we review his membership after the elections are over.  in the
>> meantime, if you believe that his conduct after the warning in private was
>> issued continues to be outside the boundaries of acceptable behaviour,
>> please point me to the evidence and I will inform him that the NCSG-EC has
>> removed him from the list.  Period of removal should be temporary in my
>> view, pending removal of membership if indeed he does not qualify on
>> grounds of his commercial activities.
>>
>> SP
>> On 2020-06-03 10:04 a.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix wrote:
>>
>> Hi all
>>
>> Good morning, and I hope you all enjoyed a good night's sleep...
>>
>> First about the guy:
>>
>> He has shown no willingness to do anything besides continue on the same
>> track. He posted on the list *and* on social media *after* the warning, and
>> probably realizing he had been moderated from the NCSG list, took to the
>> NCUC list.
>>
>> There is also now an "official" request by James to look into his
>> membership status (raised directly with Stephanie and Bruna (putting me in
>> cc, hence I inform you here))
>>
>> Irrespective of the last point, the rest is enough to me to warrant his
>> immediate removal, his "complaint" against Milton notwithstanding.
>>
>> We can blame ourselves for letting things heat up and failing to moderate
>> (technically speaking) quickly enough, but he's the one to blame for
>> disregarding pretty much every point from our warning and actively
>> circumventing it.
>>
>> As to the complaint re Milton, the furthest I would be willing to go
>> would be to send a reminder to Milton, encouraging him to exercise utmost
>> caution in his choice of words when faced with disruptive behavior on list,
>> in the multicultural context that is ours.
>>
>> I will be in touch with Bruna regarding moderating him from the NCUC
>> mailing list as well. And let me know your thoughts on the main issue.
>>
>> Have a nice day,
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 5:15 AM Raoul Plommer <plommer at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Milton has nothing to apologise for, as far as I'm concerned. I might've
>>> been even less polite, had I seen this ridiculous energy waster yesterday.
>>>
>>> -Raoul
>>>
>>> On Wed, 3 Jun 2020 at 03:36, U Of T via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> He has sent me such a direct complaint. No specifics of course.  I
>>>> guess i have to respond. He is demanding I make Milton apologize on the
>>>> list.  Advice welcome.
>>>> Steph
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 2, 2020, at 20:29, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <
>>>> rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ?
>>>> I got the confirmation from Rafik that Vaibhav is now on filter mode.
>>>>
>>>> I'll start another thread to deal with the technical side of that...
>>>>
>>>> But for the main issue, I suggest we leave it at that and filter
>>>> everything until the election is over, and take a second look by then.
>>>>
>>>> Also, he seems to imply he wants to file a complaint against Milton. I
>>>> guess we should still reply to that - something like if you want to file a
>>>> complaint, you have to do it in writing to the Chair?
>>>>
>>>> Let me know. Hopefully with the filter in place and maybe a few more
>>>> reminders if more people try to keep the discussion rolling, we can put
>>>> that behind us and move on with our lives...
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 5:22 PM Stephanie E Perrin via NCSG-EC <
>>>> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Looks fine to me.  Thanks for doing this Raphael!
>>>>>
>>>>> SP
>>>>> On 2020-06-02 2:19 p.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> This was not my initial interpretation of his message either, but I
>>>>> can see how and why you can interpret it that way Steph.
>>>>>
>>>>> But I'm not sure that the point you are raising should be addressed in
>>>>> the context of the EC. It has ramifications into both your history as a
>>>>> NCSG chair, and the "issues" with our rigid gender rules that now put you
>>>>> in a situation where you are (almost) elected by default. The
>>>>> interpretation you put forward is legitimate in your circumstances, but it
>>>>> has to be inferred, from a rather complex situation and long-standing
>>>>> situation. Whats going on with Vaibhav though is rather straightforward and
>>>>> can be addressed right away.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is what I plan to send him later today, with your agreement:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Vaibhav,
>>>>>
>>>>> We are writing to you regarding the post you made on the NCSG mailing
>>>>> list at 11:50 EST in the "NCSG Election Clarifications" thread.
>>>>>
>>>>> After reviewing the content of your post, we find it to be in
>>>>> violation of both the NCSG Charter and the ICANN Expected Standards of
>>>>> Behavior.
>>>>>
>>>>> Article 1.2 d) of the NCSG Charter reads as follows:
>>>>> "Behavioral expectations of all NCSG members, include without
>>>>> limitation: adhering to ICANN Bylaws/Policies; supporting the bottom-up
>>>>> consensus model; treating others with dignity, respect, and courtesy;
>>>>> listening attentively and seeking to understand others; acting with
>>>>> honesty, sincerity, and integrity."
>>>>>
>>>>> Your recent interventions on the mailing list were generally
>>>>> borderline regarding these Charter committments, and the one we referred to
>>>>> above constitutes a direct violation.
>>>>>
>>>>> We would kindly ask you to reconsider how you understand your
>>>>> involvement with NCSG and withdraw the personal attacks, accusations and
>>>>> threats you made in that post.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any further post on the NCSG mailing list which would be found in
>>>>> violation of the NCSG Charter could lead to your suspension from the
>>>>> mailing list and a further review of your membership status by the NCSG
>>>>> Executive Committee.
>>>>>
>>>>> We thank you in advance for your cooperation on this matter.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix, on behalf of the NCSG Executive Committee
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 1:53 PM Robin Gross via NCSG-EC <
>>>>> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I didn?t interpret Milton?s message as being hurtful but more of what
>>>>>> we face every election - people imaging ways of using the existing ballot
>>>>>> and rules to achieve various results.  It isn?t the first time we?ve had
>>>>>> abstain / NOTA conversations and probably won?t be the last.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Robin
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jun 2, 2020, at 10:04 AM, Stephanie E Perrin via NCSG-EC <
>>>>>> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just responded to James' comment, in hopes that this would douse
>>>>>> the flames.  I also resent the thread of reminders about the election
>>>>>> process....I trust it made it to the list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree that whoever this Agarwal guy is, an offlist note is
>>>>>> required.  I would really appreciate it if you did it, because frankly it
>>>>>> looks like I am retaliating and might serve to escalate matters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also think Milton is out of line.  I am well aware of how much he
>>>>>> would like me not to run, but to suggest to the list that they send me a
>>>>>> message about how unwelcome I am, by voting abstain....well, besides being
>>>>>> hurtful, I think it is a kind of electioneering that ought to be
>>>>>> discouraged.  Encourage people to vote for your candidate of choice, sure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also think that encouraging me to step down so the EC can appoint
>>>>>> the person they really want raises all kinds of questions about how fair
>>>>>> the election process is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just my two cents.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SP
>>>>>> On 2020-06-02 12:57 p.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What he said to Milton is disrespectful, and contains specific
>>>>>> accusations as well as threats. I think he needs to be reminded off-list of
>>>>>> the expected standards of behavior at ICANN and encouraged to withdraw what
>>>>>> he said and eventually apologize. If he keeps lashing on, then to me thats
>>>>>> a case of temporary suspension from the mailing list with further review on
>>>>>> our side.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Milton is harsh, and I also think he should exercise restraint in
>>>>>> such circumstances, and it would be fair game to remind him. His point
>>>>>> could be made without certain words, irrespective of their being "true" or
>>>>>> not. But Vaibhav's surely went way over the line as far as standards of
>>>>>> behavior are concerned, much more than Milton ever did.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know you don't like to play the cop Steph, but I do think it's
>>>>>> required, unfortunately. If you don't feel like it, I can volunteer, or
>>>>>> someone else can go ahead too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But let's quickly discuss first; let me know what you all think.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have a nice day,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> NCSG-EC mailing listNCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.ishttps://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NCSG-EC mailing listNCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.ishttps://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200603/3882b0f7/attachment.htm>

From maryam.bakoshi at icann.org  Thu Jun 11 17:51:26 2020
From: maryam.bakoshi at icann.org (Maryam Bakoshi)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2020 14:51:26 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Doodle Poll: NCSG Meeting with Select Board Members
Message-ID: <26BCEF8D-34F1-42B3-ABE4-6365079BD25C@icann.org>

Dear all,

Please fill in the doodle poll below to help us determine a date and time for an informal meeting with select Board Members after the ICANN68 meeting.

https://doodle.com/poll/9mrnydkru32hzzke

This doodle poll will close on Thursday 18 June 2020.

Many thanks,


Maryam Bakoshi | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
ICANN | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
S: maryam.bakoshi.icann | T: +44 7846 471777

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200611/c5bbeefb/attachment.htm>

From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Wed Jun 17 20:04:56 2020
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 13:04:56 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] FYI: NomCom review recommendation 10
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-oT--jKSEoeeakBKc2nhOkcyhgUuiBotL5dESMCVCe1SQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Just putting this out on our radar screen: NomCom review rec. 10 invites
the GNSO to review its nomcom seats allocation. This will probably trickle
down to NCSG/NCUC/NPOC at some point in the near future.

I have no idea of the history or reasons behind the current situation (i.e.
the non commercial seat being "held" by NCUC), and I don't have enough
information at this point to have a strong opinion about the way forward.
So I'm not formulating any recommendations here, this is just for
information purposes only :)

Have a nice day,

[image: image.png]
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200617/7019f42d/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image.png
Type: image/png
Size: 211782 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200617/7019f42d/attachment.png>

From maryam.bakoshi at icann.org  Thu Jun 18 13:33:18 2020
From: maryam.bakoshi at icann.org (Maryam Bakoshi)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 10:33:18 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Doodle Poll: NCSG Meeting with Select Board Members
In-Reply-To: <26BCEF8D-34F1-42B3-ABE4-6365079BD25C@icann.org>
References: <26BCEF8D-34F1-42B3-ABE4-6365079BD25C@icann.org>
Message-ID: <51AA22FE-9ECE-42F0-8A86-39A79BB22EA6@icann.org>

Dear all,

This is a gentle reminder to fill in the doodle poll below.

Thank you!

--
Many thanks,

Maryam Bakoshi | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
ICANN | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
S: maryam.bakoshi.icann | T: +44 7846 471777


From: Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>
Date: Thursday, 11 June 2020 at 15:51
To: NCSG EC <NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>, Excom NPOC <excom at npoc.org>, "Exec. Comm" <ncuc-ec at lists.ncuc.org>, Tatiana Tropina <tatiana.tropina at gmail.com>, Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak at gmail.com>, Juan Manuel Rojas <jumaropi at yahoo.com>, Elsa S <elsa.saade at GMAIL.COM>, James Gannon <lists at icann.guru>, Farell FOLLY <farell at benin2point0.org>
Subject: Doodle Poll: NCSG Meeting with Select Board Members

Dear all,

Please fill in the doodle poll below to help us determine a date and time for an informal meeting with select Board Members after the ICANN68 meeting.

https://doodle.com/poll/9mrnydkru32hzzke

This doodle poll will close on Thursday 18 June 2020.

Many thanks,


Maryam Bakoshi | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
ICANN | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
S: maryam.bakoshi.icann | T: +44 7846 471777

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200618/4f62bfe1/attachment.htm>

From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Thu Jun 18 18:34:13 2020
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 11:34:13 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Council election results?
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-qfY=XAP0P5hc3uAdeFNt9E2=7s4hHWVr6COA3jExi1Lw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all

I don't think it's quite straightforward as to who won?

So Steph is clear, and then Juan, and then Wisdom, but I don't think
Tomslin can win too because that would make us have three representatives
from AF.

Which means its a tie for affirmative votes between David and Julf, and
that tie is broken by...? The least number of abstains...? (which would
mean Julf gets it?)

Let's make sure we get this right before coming back to the list.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200618/b32e39ea/attachment.htm>

From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Thu Jun 18 18:38:06 2020
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie E Perrin)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 11:38:06 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Council election results?
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-qfY=XAP0P5hc3uAdeFNt9E2=7s4hHWVr6COA3jExi1Lw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPZSw-qfY=XAP0P5hc3uAdeFNt9E2=7s4hHWVr6COA3jExi1Lw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <420a0d76-5082-e4d8-2319-3436338702c9@mail.utoronto.ca>

I think Tomslin, being last minute, just failed to change his SOI.? He 
is in Australia, so AP.

I will remind him to change it.

cheers Steph

On 2020-06-18 11:34 a.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:
> Hi all
>
> I don't think it's quite straightforward as to who won?
>
> So Steph is clear, and then Juan, and then Wisdom, but I don't think 
> Tomslin can win too because?that would make us have three 
> representatives from AF.
>
> Which means its a tie for affirmative votes between David and Julf, 
> and that tie is broken by...? The least number of abstains...? (which 
> would mean Julf gets it?)
>
> Let's make sure we get this right before coming back to the list.
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200618/81710fe4/attachment.htm>

From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Thu Jun 18 18:40:34 2020
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 11:40:34 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Council election results?
In-Reply-To: <420a0d76-5082-e4d8-2319-3436338702c9@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <CAPZSw-qfY=XAP0P5hc3uAdeFNt9E2=7s4hHWVr6COA3jExi1Lw@mail.gmail.com>
 <420a0d76-5082-e4d8-2319-3436338702c9@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-qySp=umLs0NT6s01u7oM3gH0n2QSG9W8u0VnyZetL2Yg@mail.gmail.com>

Yes I see ok my bad then!

On Thu, Jun 18, 2020, 11:38 Stephanie E Perrin via NCSG-EC <
ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:

> I think Tomslin, being last minute, just failed to change his SOI.  He is
> in Australia, so AP.
>
> I will remind him to change it.
>
> cheers Steph
> On 2020-06-18 11:34 a.m., Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> I don't think it's quite straightforward as to who won?
>
> So Steph is clear, and then Juan, and then Wisdom, but I don't think
> Tomslin can win too because that would make us have three representatives
> from AF.
>
> Which means its a tie for affirmative votes between David and Julf, and
> that tie is broken by...? The least number of abstains...? (which would
> mean Julf gets it?)
>
> Let's make sure we get this right before coming back to the list.
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing listNCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.ishttps://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200618/7de1669e/attachment.htm>

From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Mon Jun 22 04:21:58 2020
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix)
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2020 21:21:58 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Zoom moderation for the coming week
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-rjDXkt8KhR_B01EodmwyhwvamYAyo12S50DgbVxMRFvQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all

A quick update: I haven't seen Vaibhav as a registered participant and so
maybe he will not show up this week.

But given that the zoom rooms are not passworded (but that may change since
zoombombing is already occurring?), he can easily find a way to come and
disrupt if he really feels like it without being formally registered.

So we should be ready for that, in any case. Not that there is much to do
besides muting him or chat-silencing him if he gets to anything close to
being disruptive. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand such a
decision to be at the discretion of whoever is chairing the session in
question?

See on on zoom soon!
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200621/ad59bf28/attachment.htm>

From bruna.mrtns at gmail.com  Mon Jun 22 04:52:29 2020
From: bruna.mrtns at gmail.com (Bruna Martins dos Santos)
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2020 22:52:29 -0300
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Zoom moderation for the coming week
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-rjDXkt8KhR_B01EodmwyhwvamYAyo12S50DgbVxMRFvQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPZSw-rjDXkt8KhR_B01EodmwyhwvamYAyo12S50DgbVxMRFvQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADAEEV03Ui-rFsLKokRUCSYeAgtKZTarigD78CmWqyTgnJeGnA@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you for the reminder, Rapha. I was just attending the Registration
Data Policy IRT session where we faced a more serious and pretty disturbing
interference.

I do hope Vaibhav does not attend the NCSG calls but I think you have a
point in calling our attention to that. If NCSG session is not an option,
we should keep an eye for possible plenary sessions and so on - but I do
hope nothing happens.

Best,
B.

On Sun, Jun 21, 2020 at 10:22 PM Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <
rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all
>
> A quick update: I haven't seen Vaibhav as a registered participant and so
> maybe he will not show up this week.
>
> But given that the zoom rooms are not passworded (but that may change
> since zoombombing is already occurring?), he can easily find a way to come
> and disrupt if he really feels like it without being formally registered.
>
> So we should be ready for that, in any case. Not that there is much to do
> besides muting him or chat-silencing him if he gets to anything close to
> being disruptive. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand such a
> decision to be at the discretion of whoever is chairing the session in
> question?
>
> See on on zoom soon!
>


-- 
*Bruna Martins dos Santos *

Skype ID: bruna.martinsantos
@boomartins
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200621/b2ce0fb9/attachment.htm>

From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Mon Jun 22 08:31:42 2020
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (U Of T)
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2020 01:31:42 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Zoom moderation for the coming week
In-Reply-To: <CADAEEV03Ui-rFsLKokRUCSYeAgtKZTarigD78CmWqyTgnJeGnA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADAEEV03Ui-rFsLKokRUCSYeAgtKZTarigD78CmWqyTgnJeGnA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <237B41FB-B094-4B86-BA99-F29A1364D535@mail.utoronto.ca>

See the latest message from David Olive on zoom-bombing, i just forwarded it.
SP

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 21, 2020, at 21:53, Bruna Martins dos Santos via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Thank you for the reminder, Rapha. I was just attending the Registration Data Policy IRT session where we faced a more serious and pretty disturbing interference. 
> 
> I do hope Vaibhav does not attend the NCSG calls but I think you have a point in calling our attention to that. If NCSG session is not an option, we should keep an eye for possible plenary sessions and so on - but I do hope nothing happens. 
> 
> Best, 
> B.
> 
>> On Sun, Jun 21, 2020 at 10:22 PM Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all
>> 
>> A quick update: I haven't seen Vaibhav as a registered participant and so maybe he will not show up this week. 
>> 
>> But given that the zoom rooms are not passworded (but that may change since zoombombing is already occurring?), he can easily find a way to come and disrupt if he really feels like it without being formally registered. 
>> 
>> So we should be ready for that, in any case. Not that there is much to do besides muting him or chat-silencing him if he gets to anything close to being disruptive. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand such a decision to be at the discretion of whoever is chairing the session in question?
>> 
>> See on on zoom soon!
> 
> 
> -- 
> Bruna Martins dos Santos 
> 
> Skype ID: bruna.martinsantos
> @boomartins
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ncsg.is/pipermail/ncsg-ec/attachments/20200622/363b7c6e/attachment.htm>