[NCSG-EC] [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia
Robin Gross
robin at ipjustice.org
Sat Nov 16 19:26:32 EET 2019
I haven’t seen any evidence of misrepresentation here and am not willing to infer it based on this record.
EFA had not sent us any notice of change in representation, nor has EFA sent David any notice of his removal from that position. I don’t think it is appropriate to invite internal organizational struggles into our policy development work as is happening here.
If EFA wishes to change their rep or leave altogether, they are free to do so. If Dave wishes to transition to an individual membership as a result, I think that is appropriate as well.
I agree with Raoul that I don’t see a case for pursuing anything further here.
Best,
Robin
> On Nov 15, 2019, at 3:55 PM, Raoul Plommer via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>
> Unfortunately, misrepresenting yourself in order to be a member, eligible for travel funding, and receiving that funding whilst being aware of the misrepresentation, amounts to fraud.
>
> Well, if you'd _really_ want to stretch it that far, perhaps. Spending your energy on pursuing this... what looks vengeful from start, is not going to be good for our community in any way. Since status is now up-to-date, what else do you think we could realistically be gaining here? I mean, seriously?
>
> The bottom line is, that I think Dave would've done exactly the same amount of work for NPOC during his time with us, was he a legitimate OR of EFA or not. If somebody should be pursuing misappropriated travel funds, it should be NPOC and I don't honestly see a case for any fruitful pursuance here.
>
> -Raoul
>
>
> On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 at 23:19, Raphaël Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com <mailto:rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Hi all
>
> Apologies again and specially to Stephanie. It does look like I'm talking over you, and my good intentions do not excuse the appearances :(
>
> First: as a representative of an org, was David a "member" to start with? Recall how orgs are seemingly able to replace their reps just by sending a notice; what's the difference between such cases and the present one? I'm not quite familiar enough with organizational membership, so kindly chime in. More generally, who are the members of NPOC? The orgs, or the reps? Or both?
>
> Second: I understand that David was not a member of NCUC, but a rep of an org who was (and still is, I suppose) a member of NCUC? I'm referencing to the fact that he was on the NCUC EC up to recently.
>
> The way I understand it, the current "procedure" is not one to strip him of membership, but more to remove him as the representative of an org upon the request of the person we have listed as the manager/director of that org. Whether EFA's "statutes" or anything else entitle that person to do that frolm their internal perspective is another matter, but I do not think that as a rule we should second guess these kinds of requests, lest we become embroiled in a conflict completely external to NCSG. We should not be mediating the conflict between David and EFA about who they appoint to ICANN stuff and how they do it...
>
> Maybe there are some procedure for that kind of situation somewhere in NPOC when it come to org reps? But I cannot find for NCSG.
>
> Now, without that representative position, he cannot participate in NCSG through NPOC, but that's not because he's "kicked out" or anything. It's more like an technical (not to use logical) outcome, if you see with I mean. It's not meant as a punishment or some form of disciplinary action, it's just the way it is?
>
> There might be a legitimate misunderstanding between the parties involved here, so I would think that his simple removal as a representative is enough for now. And I dont think the EFA chair asked for anything else from us either.
>
> And thank you for your initiative Joan.
>
> Best,
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 2:57 PM Raphaël Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com <mailto:rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Apologies for jumping the gun, I realize now it was not very good team play on my part.
>
> Thank you for the procedure reminder Robin. I have a few Qs but these will have to wait until I'm back home.
>
> Best,
>
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019, 10:50 Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
> Unfortunately, misrepresenting yourself in order to be a member, eligible for travel funding, and receiving that funding whilst being aware of the misrepresentation, amounts to fraud. I am not accusing anyone of fraud at this point, we have only heard one side of the story. However, as a responsible and accountable organization, we should in my view make the organization (i.e. ICANN Travel in this case) aware that we were unaware that one of our members was not eligible for membership/funding. All in good time, of course. We have yet to hear from David, and I am sincerely hoping this is not as bad as it looks.
>
> cheers Stephanie
> On 2019-11-15 08:52, Raoul Plommer wrote:
>> I think removing membership from NPOC is punishment enough, to be honest and we already did that, at least on our list of members. The complaint is fairly public already. I think the next and perhaps final step would be to ask Lyndsey for a replacement to Dave, possibly two, (OR & AR).
>>
>> -Raoul
>>
>> On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 at 14:57, Juan Manuel Rojas via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>> Hi everyone!
>> I've been gathering information to know what we should do. According to our records David Cake is only member as Organizational Representative for EFA, so we can let aside any thought about his individual membership. On the other hand, I was reading both NPOC and NCSG charter and I found the following:
>>
>> In NCSG charter says: "The Official Representative must be formally delegated authority to represent the Member Organization within NCSG proceedings by an authorized officer or official of that Member Organization", forward it mention about loss of membership:
>> "In the event that an NCSG member in good standing believes that membership is held inappropriately by another organization or individual, a request can be made to the NCSG EC to review whether the disputed member meets the criteria for membership." I have not found any other mention to sanction or penalties on this regard.
>>
>> Otherwise, in NPOC charter under 9.3 Privileges and Limitations says: "In the event the (NPOC) EC discovers that a member did not declare a potential conflict of interest, its membership shall be suspended by the EC for six (6) months."
>>
>> My two cents,
>>
>> JUAN MANUEL ROJAS P.
>> Presidente - AGEIA DENSI Colombia
>> NCSG EC - ICANN
>> Cluster Orinoco TIC member
>> Master IT candidate, Universidad de los Andes
>>
>> Cel. +57 3017435600
>> Twitter: @JmanuRojas <http://www.twitter.com/jmanurojas>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> El jueves, 14 de noviembre de 2019 05:17:06 p. m. GMT-5, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> escribió:
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> SP
>> On 2019-11-14 15:13, Maryam Bakoshi wrote:
>>> Hi Stephanie,
>>>
>>> 4 votes for NCSG, and NCUC; 1 for NPOC.
>>>
>>> —
>>> Many thanks,
>>>
>>>
>>> Maryam Bakoshi | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
>>> ICANN | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
>>> S: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | T: +44 7846 471777
>>>
>>>> On 14 Nov 2019, at 17:12, Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Just out of curiousity, I wonder how many votes David got? 4 for NPOC and 4 for NCUC/ How does that work Maryam?
>>>>
>>>> cheers Steph
>>>>
>>>> PS I am sending David the complaint with the name removed. I do not want to receive a privacy complaint on top of everything else.
>>>> On 2019-11-14 09:19, Juan Manuel Rojas wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> As NPOC Membership Chair I will ask her give us a name to change of their representative in our Constituency.
>>>>>
>>>>> JUAN MANUEL ROJAS P.
>>>>> Presidente - AGEIA DENSI Colombia
>>>>> Membership Committee Chair. Non-for-Profit Operational Concerns Constituency (NPOC) - ICANN
>>>>> Cluster Orinoco TIC member
>>>>> Master IT candidate, Universidad de los Andes
>>>>>
>>>>> Cel. +57 3017435600
>>>>> Twitter: @JmanuRojas [twitter.com] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.twitter.com_jmanurojas&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=l1drrYpbQPMTmL_auYui7kwT4YYKeEBn2RJo9xwGKIQ&e=>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> El miércoles, 13 de noviembre de 2019 06:20:26 p. m. GMT-5, Raphaël Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> escribió:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ok yes so he is indeed listed as representative of EFA as well as an "employee" of that organization.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think it would be important to know whether anyone represents EFA at this point as far as NPOC is concerned however; otherwise we'll have a technically inactive org.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 6:18 PM Raphaël Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com <mailto:rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>> Can't access members.ncsg.is [members.ncsg.is] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__members.ncsg.is&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=MXYFch-rg2gPFFHMOPHzOyrE5sXRntSLOoY5XZLpl8E&e=> just now and I am not informed of who he claims/ed to represent, but if he indeed does not represent any organization then he must be an individual member, with whatever ensues on the side of NPOC.
>>>>>
>>>>> So yes do contact him.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 6:09 PM U Of T via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>>>>> I will reach out to her and explain how our membership system works. If you all agree, I will notify David immediately that he has to change his membership status in NCSG to individual. I guess that means dropping out of NPOC?
>>>>> Cheers Stephanie
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org <mailto:maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>>
>>>>>> Date: November 13, 2019 at 16:43:35 EST
>>>>>> To: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA <mailto:stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA>>
>>>>>> Subject: FW: [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Stephanie,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FYI…
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maryam Bakoshi | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ICANN | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
>>>>>>
>>>>>> S: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | T: +44 7846 471777
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Lyndsey Jackson EFA Chair <chair at efa.org.au <mailto:chair at efa.org.au>>
>>>>>> Date: Tuesday, 12 November 2019 at 04:58
>>>>>> To: Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org <mailto:maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>>
>>>>>> Cc: Peter Tonoli <peter at metaverse.org <mailto:peter at metaverse.org>>
>>>>>> Subject: [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Maryam Bakoshi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have been contacted by a participant at ICANN in regards to a complaint made against David Cake. While I do not wish to make any judgement on the complaint of the process, one thing that is very concerning is that this person is under the impression that David Cake has been participating on behalf of Electronic Frontiers Australia as a representative to the Not-for-Profit Operational Concerns Constituency of ICANN.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David Cake in no way has authority from the EFA board to do this. David was not renominated for the board in 2017. In 2018 he was renominated, however shortly after the board unanimously voted to remove him. He does not have any board approval to represent the organisation, he has not advised the board of any involvement, and has not reported back to the board at all. He has not been the Chair of EFA for the past two years, I have. David is still involved in the EFA policy committee, however he holds no position or authorisation, and his involvement over the past two years has been marginal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have emailed David to ask him to clarify and confirm that he is not participating in ICANN as a representative of EFA. If he is, it would be a breach of the organisations rules. I have also asked that he emails you to ask that this page be updated as a priority to remove the line about David being the EFA chair https://npoc.org/leadership/ [npoc.org] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__npoc.org_leadership_&d=DwMFAg&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=ffh87nniKwre858txaLC_xzlo3-mMLc56UX_BYV5_t8&s=D0h6EhNXmHAmX9WSK0laGwEoUsZYkSeW-7yaY_W0vDA&e=> - I do expect him to do this, however would like this updated as a matter of priority regardless.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would also request that if there are any other materials, online profiles, or places where his representation of EFA is stated that that too be updated with the EFA reference removed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I realise post ICANN it's probably a busy time for you, but when appropriate I would very much value you being in touch to advise on how EFA can continue appropriate representation in ICANN going forward.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lyndsey
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Peter Tonoli EFA Vice Chair cc'd into correspondence
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lyndsey Jackson | Chair
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Electronic Frontiers Australia
>>>>>>
>>>>>> chair at efa.org.au <mailto:chair at efa.org.au>_______________________________________________
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