From stephanie at digitaldiscretion.ca  Fri Nov  1 18:22:28 2019
From: stephanie at digitaldiscretion.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2019 12:22:28 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] [NCSG-PC] Not attending ICANN66
In-Reply-To: <CAN1qJvBTGAYE3_-JXGEa2pLVQ=Dr9FGHUObbJ+6xWmHffkOj3g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN1qJvBTGAYE3_-JXGEa2pLVQ=Dr9FGHUObbJ+6xWmHffkOj3g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A2063C04-33E7-4018-A888-F01ABC543DA8@digitaldiscretion.ca>

Right. I just do not want to tromp roughshod over Elsa?s preferences.  I made the call without consulting, being confident that NPOC would appreciate an opportunity to be represented by an active member.
I will therefore refer this to the EC.  Let me know soonest, guys ( in cc) as I don?t want to miss getting the absence form in. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 1, 2019, at 10:53, farzaneh badii <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Hello 
> 
> I didn?t want to get involved but seems like I have to since Rafik is on route and there is unclarity. 
> 
> To prevent further disagreement: I will not be an alternate for this meeting.  
> 
> 1. Appointing alternate is not a PC decision as Rafik said as well. It is an EC decision.  Stephanie please take this to your EC.
> 
> 2. Under no customary practice nor any procedures you have to appoint the person who got the council member funding as alternate. In fact the NCSG operating procedures about travel support allocation does not require this at all. I will dig out the link.  If other people who the EC see as qualified are willing to step up then thats fine too. 
> 
> Appointment of alternate either Sam or someone else is within the EC responsibilities. 
> 
> 
>> On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 10:21 AM Martin Pablo Silva Valent <mpsilvavalent at gmail.com> wrote:
>> No proxy is needed, if sam seats as alternate. Same with Amr in Kobe, no one had my proxy. I just forgot about sam for a split second.
>> 
>> 
>>> On 1 Nov 2019, at 10:50, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Ok I get the message.  If Martin is the proxy, then Sam cannot attend the Council meetings.  Is that clear to everyone?  He would be attending as an alternate, no alternate no attendance.  It is my understanding that if you give your proxy to Martin, he does not attend.  I stand to be corrected by veterans who know better.
>>> 
>>> Sam is all set to attend and has even asked me for other meetings he needs to attend for background.
>>> 
>>> Let me know.  I need to send that stupid form in.
>>> 
>>> Cheers Steph
>>> 
>>>> On 2019-11-01 00:36, Martin Pablo Silva Valent wrote:
>>>> True, Sam!!! He is in the seat then, no proxy. 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 11:09 PM Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com> wrote:
>>>>> I think Sam would be a good fit to be temporary alternate, as he is getting the travel slot?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best wishes, Ayden  
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>>>>> On Thursday, 31. October 2019 23:23, Martin Pablo Silva Valent <mpsilvavalent at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I can always be the proxy if needed for the council votings. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Mart?n
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 31 Oct 2019, at 18:33, Elsa S <elsa.saade at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I got an email from Nathalie about this. I will not be able to attend (might join remotely for the council meeting only to observe), but I?d like us to finalize who will be my proxy for votes?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I would appreciate your input asap before I send in my reply.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks all in advance,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Elsa
>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>>>>>> From: Nathalie Peregrine <nathalie.peregrine at icann.org>
>>>>>>> Date: Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 10:04 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Not attending ICANN66
>>>>>>> To: Syed Ismail Shah <syedismailshah at gmail.com>, Elsa S <elsa.saade at gmail.com>, Darcy Southwell <Darcy.Southwell at endurance.com>
>>>>>>> CC: gnso-secs at icann.org <gnso-secs at icann.org>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dear Darcy, Elsa and Syed,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> We?re all pretty unhappy you aren?t making it to ICANN66, whilst understanding why! ?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In order to ensure we can assist you as best we can, would you mind replying to the below:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Do you plan to attend sessions remotely, if yes, which ones?
>>>>>>> Are you assigning a proxy (fellow councilor) or temporary alternate for either the GNSO Council meeting or the duration of ICANN66? If so, please get a SG/C officer to fill in the abstention form with the exact dates needed: https://gnso.icann.org/en/council/abstention-notification-form-en.htm
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thank you! And please reach out to gnso-secs at icann.org or Skype Terri or me, as we will be onsite.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Nathalie
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Nathalie Peregrine
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Manager, Operations Support (GNSO)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Email: nathalie.peregrine at icann.org 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Skype: nathalie.peregrine.icann
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Find out more about the GNSO by visiting: https://learn.icann.org/ 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Follow @GNSO on Twitter: https://twitter.com/ICANN_GNSO 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Transcripts and recordings of GNSO Working Group and Council events are located on the GNSO Master Calendar 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> See All SO and AC events on the ICANN Global calendar 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Elsa Saade
>>>>>>> Consultant
>>>>>>> Gulf Centre for Human Rights
>>>>>>> Twitter: @Elsa_Saade
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
> -- 
> Farzaneh
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
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From plommer at gmail.com  Fri Nov  1 23:12:28 2019
From: plommer at gmail.com (Raoul Plommer)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2019 23:12:28 +0200
Subject: [NCSG-EC] [NCSG-PC] Not attending ICANN66
In-Reply-To: <A2063C04-33E7-4018-A888-F01ABC543DA8@digitaldiscretion.ca>
References: <CAN1qJvBTGAYE3_-JXGEa2pLVQ=Dr9FGHUObbJ+6xWmHffkOj3g@mail.gmail.com>
 <A2063C04-33E7-4018-A888-F01ABC543DA8@digitaldiscretion.ca>
Message-ID: <CADirp9RsxkpaOD9OzuM5djuE+=WqPcc0z7ksv1rXwpd-RudjOw@mail.gmail.com>

Well, Elsa's preference shouldn't be any more valid than Martin's was in
Kobe. Let's have consistency.

I would choose Sam as an alternate.

-Raoul

On Fri, 1 Nov 2019 at 18:22, Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <
ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:

> Right. I just do not want to tromp roughshod over Elsa?s preferences.  I
> made the call without consulting, being confident that NPOC would
> appreciate an opportunity to be represented by an active member.
> I will therefore refer this to the EC.  Let me know soonest, guys ( in cc)
> as I don?t want to miss getting the absence form in.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 1, 2019, at 10:53, farzaneh badii <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ?
> Hello
>
> I didn?t want to get involved but seems like I have to since Rafik is on
> route and there is unclarity.
>
> To prevent further disagreement: I will not be an alternate for this
> meeting.
>
> 1. Appointing alternate is not a PC decision as Rafik said as well. It is
> an EC decision.  Stephanie please take this to your EC.
>
> 2. Under no customary practice nor any procedures you have to appoint the
> person who got the council member funding as alternate. In fact the NCSG
> operating procedures about travel support allocation does not require this
> at all. I will dig out the link.  If other people who the EC see as
> qualified are willing to step up then thats fine too.
>
> Appointment of alternate either Sam or someone else is within the EC
> responsibilities.
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 10:21 AM Martin Pablo Silva Valent <
> mpsilvavalent at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> No proxy is needed, if sam seats as alternate. Same with Amr in Kobe, no
>> one had my proxy. I just forgot about sam for a split second.
>>
>>
>> On 1 Nov 2019, at 10:50, Stephanie Perrin <
>> stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
>>
>> Ok I get the message.  If Martin is the proxy, then Sam cannot attend the
>> Council meetings.  Is that clear to everyone?  He would be attending as an
>> alternate, no alternate no attendance.  It is my understanding that if you
>> give your proxy to Martin, he does not attend.  I stand to be corrected by
>> veterans who know better.
>>
>> Sam is all set to attend and has even asked me for other meetings he
>> needs to attend for background.
>>
>> Let me know.  I need to send that stupid form in.
>>
>> Cheers Steph
>> On 2019-11-01 00:36, Martin Pablo Silva Valent wrote:
>>
>> True, Sam!!! He is in the seat then, no proxy.
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 11:09 PM Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I think Sam would be a good fit to be temporary alternate, as he is
>>> getting the travel slot?
>>>
>>> Best wishes, Ayden
>>>
>>>
>>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>>> On Thursday, 31. October 2019 23:23, Martin Pablo Silva Valent <
>>> mpsilvavalent at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I can always be the proxy if needed for the council votings.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Mart?n
>>>
>>> On 31 Oct 2019, at 18:33, Elsa S <elsa.saade at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey all,
>>>
>>> I got an email from Nathalie about this. I will not be able to attend
>>> (might join remotely for the council meeting only to observe), but I?d like
>>> us to finalize who will be my proxy for votes?
>>>
>>> I would appreciate your input asap before I send in my reply.
>>>
>>> Thanks all in advance,
>>>
>>> Elsa
>>> ?
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>> From: *Nathalie Peregrine* <nathalie.peregrine at icann.org>
>>> Date: Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 10:04 AM
>>> Subject: Not attending ICANN66
>>> To: Syed Ismail Shah <syedismailshah at gmail.com>, Elsa S <
>>> elsa.saade at gmail.com>, Darcy Southwell <Darcy.Southwell at endurance.com>
>>> CC: gnso-secs at icann.org <gnso-secs at icann.org>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Darcy, Elsa and Syed,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We?re all pretty unhappy you aren?t making it to ICANN66, whilst
>>> understanding why! ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In order to ensure we can assist you as best we can, would you mind
>>> replying to the below:
>>>
>>>    - Do you plan to attend sessions remotely, if yes, which ones?
>>>    - Are you assigning a proxy (fellow councilor) or temporary
>>>    alternate for either the GNSO Council meeting or the duration of ICANN66?
>>>    If so, please get a SG/C officer to fill in the abstention form with the
>>>    exact dates needed:
>>>    https://gnso.icann.org/en/council/abstention-notification-form-en.htm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you! And please reach out to gnso-secs at icann.org or Skype Terri
>>> or me, as we will be onsite.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nathalie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nathalie Peregrine
>>>
>>> Manager, Operations Support (GNSO)
>>>
>>> Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)
>>>
>>> Email: nathalie.peregrine at icann.org
>>> <http://nathalie.peregrine at icann.org%20>
>>>
>>> Skype: nathalie.peregrine.icann
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Find out more about the GNSO by visiting: https://learn.icann.org/
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__learn.icann.org_&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=jLNFXvpu9gNdUeHi-G6sjWNCF9w4_AwhzzUDFZy2elE&s=o7Auz997kA-HPv9PHJCjFVZw7Pgo8krw4MxfqCwBrIU&e=>
>>>
>>> Follow @GNSO on Twitter: https://twitter.com/ICANN_GNSO
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__twitter.com_ICANN-5FGNSO&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=jLNFXvpu9gNdUeHi-G6sjWNCF9w4_AwhzzUDFZy2elE&s=kWw4fQPNjw2lVKy1UjTxS2F0BmjEAzaDFWNmsYywbmE&e=>
>>>
>>> Transcripts and recordings of GNSO Working Group and Council events are
>>> located on the GNSO Master Calendar
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_group-2Dactivities_calendar&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=jLNFXvpu9gNdUeHi-G6sjWNCF9w4_AwhzzUDFZy2elE&s=-L6chFfv0OperrXHHpTF722WnH3FZIutn4cS16IvpOg&e=>
>>>
>>> See All SO and AC events on the ICANN Global calendar
>>> <https://features.icann.org/calendar>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>>
>>> Elsa Saade
>>> Consultant
>>> Gulf Centre for Human Rights
>>> Twitter: @Elsa_Saade
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing listNCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.ishttps://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>
> --
> Farzaneh
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
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From elsa.saade at gmail.com  Sat Nov  2 09:20:49 2019
From: elsa.saade at gmail.com (Elsa S)
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2019 00:20:49 -0700
Subject: [NCSG-EC] [NCSG-PC] Not attending ICANN66
In-Reply-To: <A2063C04-33E7-4018-A888-F01ABC543DA8@digitaldiscretion.ca>
References: <CAN1qJvBTGAYE3_-JXGEa2pLVQ=Dr9FGHUObbJ+6xWmHffkOj3g@mail.gmail.com>
 <A2063C04-33E7-4018-A888-F01ABC543DA8@digitaldiscretion.ca>
Message-ID: <CAHFwYbe7FMAPxzXXXeu9PQB_FDo+u-SfAtXRuX5chO=9AqS1iw@mail.gmail.com>

I don?t mind Sam voting for me, I?m sure we?re all on the same page when it
comes to voting. So I?ll follow whatever the EC decides.

When do you think I?ll hear back, to let Nathalie know in time?

Thanks,

Elsa
?

On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 9:22 AM Stephanie Perrin <
stephanie at digitaldiscretion.ca> wrote:

> Right. I just do not want to tromp roughshod over Elsa?s preferences.  I
> made the call without consulting, being confident that NPOC would
> appreciate an opportunity to be represented by an active member.
> I will therefore refer this to the EC.  Let me know soonest, guys ( in cc)
> as I don?t want to miss getting the absence form in.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 1, 2019, at 10:53, farzaneh badii <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ?
>
> Hello
>
> I didn?t want to get involved but seems like I have to since Rafik is on
> route and there is unclarity.
>
> To prevent further disagreement: I will not be an alternate for this
> meeting.
>
> 1. Appointing alternate is not a PC decision as Rafik said as well. It is
> an EC decision.  Stephanie please take this to your EC.
>
> 2. Under no customary practice nor any procedures you have to appoint the
> person who got the council member funding as alternate. In fact the NCSG
> operating procedures about travel support allocation does not require this
> at all. I will dig out the link.  If other people who the EC see as
> qualified are willing to step up then thats fine too.
>
> Appointment of alternate either Sam or someone else is within the EC
> responsibilities.
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 10:21 AM Martin Pablo Silva Valent <
> mpsilvavalent at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> No proxy is needed, if sam seats as alternate. Same with Amr in Kobe, no
>> one had my proxy. I just forgot about sam for a split second.
>>
>>
>> On 1 Nov 2019, at 10:50, Stephanie Perrin <
>> stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
>>
>> Ok I get the message.  If Martin is the proxy, then Sam cannot attend the
>> Council meetings.  Is that clear to everyone?  He would be attending as an
>> alternate, no alternate no attendance.  It is my understanding that if you
>> give your proxy to Martin, he does not attend.  I stand to be corrected by
>> veterans who know better.
>>
>> Sam is all set to attend and has even asked me for other meetings he
>> needs to attend for background.
>>
>> Let me know.  I need to send that stupid form in.
>>
>> Cheers Steph
>> On 2019-11-01 00:36, Martin Pablo Silva Valent wrote:
>>
>> True, Sam!!! He is in the seat then, no proxy.
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 11:09 PM Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I think Sam would be a good fit to be temporary alternate, as he is
>>> getting the travel slot?
>>>
>>> Best wishes, Ayden
>>>
>>>
>>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>>> On Thursday, 31. October 2019 23:23, Martin Pablo Silva Valent <
>>> mpsilvavalent at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I can always be the proxy if needed for the council votings.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Mart?n
>>>
>>> On 31 Oct 2019, at 18:33, Elsa S <elsa.saade at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey all,
>>>
>>> I got an email from Nathalie about this. I will not be able to attend
>>> (might join remotely for the council meeting only to observe), but I?d like
>>> us to finalize who will be my proxy for votes?
>>>
>>> I would appreciate your input asap before I send in my reply.
>>>
>>> Thanks all in advance,
>>>
>>> Elsa
>>> ?
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>> From: *Nathalie Peregrine* <nathalie.peregrine at icann.org>
>>> Date: Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 10:04 AM
>>> Subject: Not attending ICANN66
>>> To: Syed Ismail Shah <syedismailshah at gmail.com>, Elsa S <
>>> elsa.saade at gmail.com>, Darcy Southwell <Darcy.Southwell at endurance.com>
>>> CC: gnso-secs at icann.org <gnso-secs at icann.org>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Darcy, Elsa and Syed,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We?re all pretty unhappy you aren?t making it to ICANN66, whilst
>>> understanding why! ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In order to ensure we can assist you as best we can, would you mind
>>> replying to the below:
>>>
>>>    - Do you plan to attend sessions remotely, if yes, which ones?
>>>    - Are you assigning a proxy (fellow councilor) or temporary
>>>    alternate for either the GNSO Council meeting or the duration of ICANN66?
>>>    If so, please get a SG/C officer to fill in the abstention form with the
>>>    exact dates needed:
>>>    https://gnso.icann.org/en/council/abstention-notification-form-en.htm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you! And please reach out to gnso-secs at icann.org or Skype Terri
>>> or me, as we will be onsite.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nathalie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nathalie Peregrine
>>>
>>> Manager, Operations Support (GNSO)
>>>
>>> Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)
>>>
>>> Email: nathalie.peregrine at icann.org
>>> <http://nathalie.peregrine at icann.org%20>
>>>
>>> Skype: nathalie.peregrine.icann
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Find out more about the GNSO by visiting: https://learn.icann.org/
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__learn.icann.org_&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=jLNFXvpu9gNdUeHi-G6sjWNCF9w4_AwhzzUDFZy2elE&s=o7Auz997kA-HPv9PHJCjFVZw7Pgo8krw4MxfqCwBrIU&e=>
>>>
>>> Follow @GNSO on Twitter: https://twitter.com/ICANN_GNSO
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__twitter.com_ICANN-5FGNSO&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=jLNFXvpu9gNdUeHi-G6sjWNCF9w4_AwhzzUDFZy2elE&s=kWw4fQPNjw2lVKy1UjTxS2F0BmjEAzaDFWNmsYywbmE&e=>
>>>
>>> Transcripts and recordings of GNSO Working Group and Council events are
>>> located on the GNSO Master Calendar
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_group-2Dactivities_calendar&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=jLNFXvpu9gNdUeHi-G6sjWNCF9w4_AwhzzUDFZy2elE&s=-L6chFfv0OperrXHHpTF722WnH3FZIutn4cS16IvpOg&e=>
>>>
>>> See All SO and AC events on the ICANN Global calendar
>>> <https://features.icann.org/calendar>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>>
>>> Elsa Saade
>>> Consultant
>>> Gulf Centre for Human Rights
>>> Twitter: @Elsa_Saade
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing listNCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.ishttps://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>
> --
> Farzaneh
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
-- 
--

Elsa Saade
Consultant
Gulf Centre for Human Rights
Twitter: @Elsa_Saade
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From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Sat Nov  2 18:55:52 2019
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Rapha=C3=ABl_Beauregard=2DLacroix?=)
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2019 12:55:52 -0400
Subject: [NCSG-EC] [NCSG-PC] Not attending ICANN66
In-Reply-To: <A2063C04-33E7-4018-A888-F01ABC543DA8@digitaldiscretion.ca>
References: <CAN1qJvBTGAYE3_-JXGEa2pLVQ=Dr9FGHUObbJ+6xWmHffkOj3g@mail.gmail.com>
 <A2063C04-33E7-4018-A888-F01ABC543DA8@digitaldiscretion.ca>
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-pP97RLnBYa2uTdenYq+FLwkyvQurapqoUmH1wTxMOKJw@mail.gmail.com>

I'd be glad to chip in but honestly I can't really tell what I'm asked to
decide on. It seems everyone agree that Sam should be alternate, so? Is it
just a rubber stamp matter?

Thx for your lights

On Fri, Nov 1, 2019, 12:22 Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <
ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:

> Right. I just do not want to tromp roughshod over Elsa?s preferences.  I
> made the call without consulting, being confident that NPOC would
> appreciate an opportunity to be represented by an active member.
> I will therefore refer this to the EC.  Let me know soonest, guys ( in cc)
> as I don?t want to miss getting the absence form in.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 1, 2019, at 10:53, farzaneh badii <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ?
> Hello
>
> I didn?t want to get involved but seems like I have to since Rafik is on
> route and there is unclarity.
>
> To prevent further disagreement: I will not be an alternate for this
> meeting.
>
> 1. Appointing alternate is not a PC decision as Rafik said as well. It is
> an EC decision.  Stephanie please take this to your EC.
>
> 2. Under no customary practice nor any procedures you have to appoint the
> person who got the council member funding as alternate. In fact the NCSG
> operating procedures about travel support allocation does not require this
> at all. I will dig out the link.  If other people who the EC see as
> qualified are willing to step up then thats fine too.
>
> Appointment of alternate either Sam or someone else is within the EC
> responsibilities.
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 10:21 AM Martin Pablo Silva Valent <
> mpsilvavalent at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> No proxy is needed, if sam seats as alternate. Same with Amr in Kobe, no
>> one had my proxy. I just forgot about sam for a split second.
>>
>>
>> On 1 Nov 2019, at 10:50, Stephanie Perrin <
>> stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
>>
>> Ok I get the message.  If Martin is the proxy, then Sam cannot attend the
>> Council meetings.  Is that clear to everyone?  He would be attending as an
>> alternate, no alternate no attendance.  It is my understanding that if you
>> give your proxy to Martin, he does not attend.  I stand to be corrected by
>> veterans who know better.
>>
>> Sam is all set to attend and has even asked me for other meetings he
>> needs to attend for background.
>>
>> Let me know.  I need to send that stupid form in.
>>
>> Cheers Steph
>> On 2019-11-01 00:36, Martin Pablo Silva Valent wrote:
>>
>> True, Sam!!! He is in the seat then, no proxy.
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 11:09 PM Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I think Sam would be a good fit to be temporary alternate, as he is
>>> getting the travel slot?
>>>
>>> Best wishes, Ayden
>>>
>>>
>>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>>> On Thursday, 31. October 2019 23:23, Martin Pablo Silva Valent <
>>> mpsilvavalent at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I can always be the proxy if needed for the council votings.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Mart?n
>>>
>>> On 31 Oct 2019, at 18:33, Elsa S <elsa.saade at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey all,
>>>
>>> I got an email from Nathalie about this. I will not be able to attend
>>> (might join remotely for the council meeting only to observe), but I?d like
>>> us to finalize who will be my proxy for votes?
>>>
>>> I would appreciate your input asap before I send in my reply.
>>>
>>> Thanks all in advance,
>>>
>>> Elsa
>>> ?
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>> From: *Nathalie Peregrine* <nathalie.peregrine at icann.org>
>>> Date: Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 10:04 AM
>>> Subject: Not attending ICANN66
>>> To: Syed Ismail Shah <syedismailshah at gmail.com>, Elsa S <
>>> elsa.saade at gmail.com>, Darcy Southwell <Darcy.Southwell at endurance.com>
>>> CC: gnso-secs at icann.org <gnso-secs at icann.org>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Darcy, Elsa and Syed,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We?re all pretty unhappy you aren?t making it to ICANN66, whilst
>>> understanding why! ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In order to ensure we can assist you as best we can, would you mind
>>> replying to the below:
>>>
>>>    - Do you plan to attend sessions remotely, if yes, which ones?
>>>    - Are you assigning a proxy (fellow councilor) or temporary
>>>    alternate for either the GNSO Council meeting or the duration of ICANN66?
>>>    If so, please get a SG/C officer to fill in the abstention form with the
>>>    exact dates needed:
>>>    https://gnso.icann.org/en/council/abstention-notification-form-en.htm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you! And please reach out to gnso-secs at icann.org or Skype Terri
>>> or me, as we will be onsite.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nathalie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nathalie Peregrine
>>>
>>> Manager, Operations Support (GNSO)
>>>
>>> Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)
>>>
>>> Email: nathalie.peregrine at icann.org
>>> <http://nathalie.peregrine at icann.org%20>
>>>
>>> Skype: nathalie.peregrine.icann
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Find out more about the GNSO by visiting: https://learn.icann.org/
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__learn.icann.org_&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=jLNFXvpu9gNdUeHi-G6sjWNCF9w4_AwhzzUDFZy2elE&s=o7Auz997kA-HPv9PHJCjFVZw7Pgo8krw4MxfqCwBrIU&e=>
>>>
>>> Follow @GNSO on Twitter: https://twitter.com/ICANN_GNSO
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__twitter.com_ICANN-5FGNSO&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=jLNFXvpu9gNdUeHi-G6sjWNCF9w4_AwhzzUDFZy2elE&s=kWw4fQPNjw2lVKy1UjTxS2F0BmjEAzaDFWNmsYywbmE&e=>
>>>
>>> Transcripts and recordings of GNSO Working Group and Council events are
>>> located on the GNSO Master Calendar
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_group-2Dactivities_calendar&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=jLNFXvpu9gNdUeHi-G6sjWNCF9w4_AwhzzUDFZy2elE&s=-L6chFfv0OperrXHHpTF722WnH3FZIutn4cS16IvpOg&e=>
>>>
>>> See All SO and AC events on the ICANN Global calendar
>>> <https://features.icann.org/calendar>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>>
>>> Elsa Saade
>>> Consultant
>>> Gulf Centre for Human Rights
>>> Twitter: @Elsa_Saade
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing listNCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.ishttps://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>>
> --
> Farzaneh
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-PC mailing list
> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
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From robin at ipjustice.org  Sat Nov  2 20:19:35 2019
From: robin at ipjustice.org (Robin Gross)
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2019 11:19:35 -0700
Subject: [NCSG-EC] [NCSG-PC] Not attending ICANN66
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-pP97RLnBYa2uTdenYq+FLwkyvQurapqoUmH1wTxMOKJw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN1qJvBTGAYE3_-JXGEa2pLVQ=Dr9FGHUObbJ+6xWmHffkOj3g@mail.gmail.com>
 <A2063C04-33E7-4018-A888-F01ABC543DA8@digitaldiscretion.ca>
 <CAPZSw-pP97RLnBYa2uTdenYq+FLwkyvQurapqoUmH1wTxMOKJw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <99E9195F-F1A9-438E-ADC3-CB1C9E402486@ipjustice.org>

Sam sounds like a fine replacement, I agree.

Thanks,
Robin

> On Nov 2, 2019, at 9:55 AM, Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
> 
> I'd be glad to chip in but honestly I can't really tell what I'm asked to decide on. It seems everyone agree that Sam should be alternate, so? Is it just a rubber stamp matter? 
> 
> Thx for your lights 
> 
> On Fri, Nov 1, 2019, 12:22 Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
> Right. I just do not want to tromp roughshod over Elsa?s preferences.  I made the call without consulting, being confident that NPOC would appreciate an opportunity to be represented by an active member.
> I will therefore refer this to the EC.  Let me know soonest, guys ( in cc) as I don?t want to miss getting the absence form in. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Nov 1, 2019, at 10:53, farzaneh badii <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com <mailto:farzaneh.badii at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> ?
>> Hello 
>> 
>> I didn?t want to get involved but seems like I have to since Rafik is on route and there is unclarity. 
>> 
>> To prevent further disagreement: I will not be an alternate for this meeting.  
>> 
>> 1. Appointing alternate is not a PC decision as Rafik said as well. It is an EC decision.  Stephanie please take this to your EC.
>> 
>> 2. Under no customary practice nor any procedures you have to appoint the person who got the council member funding as alternate. In fact the NCSG operating procedures about travel support allocation does not require this at all. I will dig out the link.  If other people who the EC see as qualified are willing to step up then thats fine too. 
>> 
>> Appointment of alternate either Sam or someone else is within the EC responsibilities. 
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 10:21 AM Martin Pablo Silva Valent <mpsilvavalent at gmail.com <mailto:mpsilvavalent at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> No proxy is needed, if sam seats as alternate. Same with Amr in Kobe, no one had my proxy. I just forgot about sam for a split second.
>> 
>> 
>>> On 1 Nov 2019, at 10:50, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Ok I get the message.  If Martin is the proxy, then Sam cannot attend the Council meetings.  Is that clear to everyone?  He would be attending as an alternate, no alternate no attendance.  It is my understanding that if you give your proxy to Martin, he does not attend.  I stand to be corrected by veterans who know better.
>>> 
>>> Sam is all set to attend and has even asked me for other meetings he needs to attend for background.
>>> 
>>> Let me know.  I need to send that stupid form in.
>>> 
>>> Cheers Steph
>>> On 2019-11-01 00:36, Martin Pablo Silva Valent wrote:
>>>> True, Sam!!! He is in the seat then, no proxy. 
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 11:09 PM Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>> wrote:
>>>> I think Sam would be a good fit to be temporary alternate, as he is getting the travel slot?
>>>> 
>>>> Best wishes, Ayden  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>>>> On Thursday, 31. October 2019 23:23, Martin Pablo Silva Valent <mpsilvavalent at gmail.com <mailto:mpsilvavalent at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I can always be the proxy if needed for the council votings. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Mart?n
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 31 Oct 2019, at 18:33, Elsa S <elsa.saade at gmail.com <mailto:elsa.saade at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I got an email from Nathalie about this. I will not be able to attend (might join remotely for the council meeting only to observe), but I?d like us to finalize who will be my proxy for votes?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I would appreciate your input asap before I send in my reply.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks all in advance,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Elsa
>>>>>> ?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>>>>> From: Nathalie Peregrine <nathalie.peregrine at icann.org <mailto:nathalie.peregrine at icann.org>>
>>>>>> Date: Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 10:04 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Not attending ICANN66
>>>>>> To: Syed Ismail Shah <syedismailshah at gmail.com <mailto:syedismailshah at gmail.com>>, Elsa S <elsa.saade at gmail.com <mailto:elsa.saade at gmail.com>>, Darcy Southwell <Darcy.Southwell at endurance.com <mailto:Darcy.Southwell at endurance.com>>
>>>>>> CC: gnso-secs at icann.org <mailto:gnso-secs at icann.org> <gnso-secs at icann.org <mailto:gnso-secs at icann.org>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Dear Darcy, Elsa and Syed,
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> We?re all pretty unhappy you aren?t making it to ICANN66, whilst understanding why! ?
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> In order to ensure we can assist you as best we can, would you mind replying to the below:
>>>>>> Do you plan to attend sessions remotely, if yes, which ones?
>>>>>> Are you assigning a proxy (fellow councilor) or temporary alternate for either the GNSO Council meeting or the duration of ICANN66? If so, please get a SG/C officer to fill in the abstention form with the exact dates needed: https://gnso.icann.org/en/council/abstention-notification-form-en.htm <https://gnso.icann.org/en/council/abstention-notification-form-en.htm>
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Thank you! And please reach out to gnso-secs at icann.org <mailto:gnso-secs at icann.org> or Skype Terri or me, as we will be onsite.
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Nathalie
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Nathalie Peregrine
>>>>>> Manager, Operations Support (GNSO)
>>>>>> Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) 
>>>>>> Email: nathalie.peregrine at icann.org? <http://nathalie.peregrine at icann.org%20/>
>>>>>> Skype: nathalie.peregrine.icann
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Find out more about the GNSO by visiting: https://learn.icann.org/  <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__learn.icann.org_&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=jLNFXvpu9gNdUeHi-G6sjWNCF9w4_AwhzzUDFZy2elE&s=o7Auz997kA-HPv9PHJCjFVZw7Pgo8krw4MxfqCwBrIU&e=>
>>>>>> Follow @GNSO on Twitter: https://twitter.com/ICANN_GNSO  <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__twitter.com_ICANN-5FGNSO&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=jLNFXvpu9gNdUeHi-G6sjWNCF9w4_AwhzzUDFZy2elE&s=kWw4fQPNjw2lVKy1UjTxS2F0BmjEAzaDFWNmsYywbmE&e=>
>>>>>> Transcripts and recordings of GNSO Working Group and Council events are located on the GNSO Master Calendar  <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_group-2Dactivities_calendar&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=jLNFXvpu9gNdUeHi-G6sjWNCF9w4_AwhzzUDFZy2elE&s=-L6chFfv0OperrXHHpTF722WnH3FZIutn4cS16IvpOg&e=>
>>>>>> See All SO and AC events on the ICANN Global calendar <https://features.icann.org/calendar> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Elsa Saade
>>>>>> Consultant
>>>>>> Gulf Centre for Human Rights
>>>>>> Twitter: @Elsa_Saade
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
>> -- 
>> Farzaneh
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-PC mailing list
>> NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec

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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Sat Nov  2 20:57:48 2019
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2019 18:57:48 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-EC] [NCSG-PC] Not attending ICANN66
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-pP97RLnBYa2uTdenYq+FLwkyvQurapqoUmH1wTxMOKJw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN1qJvBTGAYE3_-JXGEa2pLVQ=Dr9FGHUObbJ+6xWmHffkOj3g@mail.gmail.com>
 <A2063C04-33E7-4018-A888-F01ABC543DA8@digitaldiscretion.ca>
 <CAPZSw-pP97RLnBYa2uTdenYq+FLwkyvQurapqoUmH1wTxMOKJw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9bd68f03-5fe0-44a8-ff46-4fa226815ab4@mail.utoronto.ca>

well it was clarified that this (selection of alternate or proxy) is an EC decision.   Which is odd when you think about it, because it is a matter of council representation, and councillors are members of the Policy Committee, but I guess the Charter design was (as always) to ensure independence of council member designation (i.e. they cannot stack their own deck).

So we had a discussion at breakfast and went with Sam as alternate.  time constraints kicked in.

SP

On 2019-11-02 12:55, Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:
I'd be glad to chip in but honestly I can't really tell what I'm asked to decide on. It seems everyone agree that Sam should be alternate, so? Is it just a rubber stamp matter?

Thx for your lights

On Fri, Nov 1, 2019, 12:22 Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
Right. I just do not want to tromp roughshod over Elsa?s preferences.  I made the call without consulting, being confident that NPOC would appreciate an opportunity to be represented by an active member.
I will therefore refer this to the EC.  Let me know soonest, guys ( in cc) as I don?t want to miss getting the absence form in.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 1, 2019, at 10:53, farzaneh badii <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com<mailto:farzaneh.badii at gmail.com>> wrote:

?
Hello

I didn?t want to get involved but seems like I have to since Rafik is on route and there is unclarity.

To prevent further disagreement: I will not be an alternate for this meeting.

1. Appointing alternate is not a PC decision as Rafik said as well. It is an EC decision.  Stephanie please take this to your EC.

2. Under no customary practice nor any procedures you have to appoint the person who got the council member funding as alternate. In fact the NCSG operating procedures about travel support allocation does not require this at all. I will dig out the link.  If other people who the EC see as qualified are willing to step up then thats fine too.

Appointment of alternate either Sam or someone else is within the EC responsibilities.


On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 10:21 AM Martin Pablo Silva Valent <mpsilvavalent at gmail.com<mailto:mpsilvavalent at gmail.com>> wrote:
No proxy is needed, if sam seats as alternate. Same with Amr in Kobe, no one had my proxy. I just forgot about sam for a split second.


On 1 Nov 2019, at 10:50, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca<mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:


Ok I get the message.  If Martin is the proxy, then Sam cannot attend the Council meetings.  Is that clear to everyone?  He would be attending as an alternate, no alternate no attendance.  It is my understanding that if you give your proxy to Martin, he does not attend.  I stand to be corrected by veterans who know better.

Sam is all set to attend and has even asked me for other meetings he needs to attend for background.

Let me know.  I need to send that stupid form in.

Cheers Steph

On 2019-11-01 00:36, Martin Pablo Silva Valent wrote:
True, Sam!!! He is in the seat then, no proxy.

On Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 11:09 PM Ayden F?rdeline <icann at ferdeline.com<mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>> wrote:
I think Sam would be a good fit to be temporary alternate, as he is getting the travel slot?

Best wishes, Ayden


??????? Original Message ???????
On Thursday, 31. October 2019 23:23, Martin Pablo Silva Valent <mpsilvavalent at gmail.com<mailto:mpsilvavalent at gmail.com>> wrote:

I can always be the proxy if needed for the council votings.

Best,
Mart?n

On 31 Oct 2019, at 18:33, Elsa S <elsa.saade at gmail.com<mailto:elsa.saade at gmail.com>> wrote:

Hey all,

I got an email from Nathalie about this. I will not be able to attend (might join remotely for the council meeting only to observe), but I?d like us to finalize who will be my proxy for votes?

I would appreciate your input asap before I send in my reply.

Thanks all in advance,

Elsa
?

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Nathalie Peregrine <nathalie.peregrine at icann.org<mailto:nathalie.peregrine at icann.org>>
Date: Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 10:04 AM
Subject: Not attending ICANN66
To: Syed Ismail Shah <syedismailshah at gmail.com<mailto:syedismailshah at gmail.com>>, Elsa S <elsa.saade at gmail.com<mailto:elsa.saade at gmail.com>>, Darcy Southwell <Darcy.Southwell at endurance.com<mailto:Darcy.Southwell at endurance.com>>
CC: gnso-secs at icann.org<mailto:gnso-secs at icann.org> <gnso-secs at icann.org<mailto:gnso-secs at icann.org>>



Dear Darcy, Elsa and Syed,



We?re all pretty unhappy you aren?t making it to ICANN66, whilst understanding why! ?



In order to ensure we can assist you as best we can, would you mind replying to the below:

  *   Do you plan to attend sessions remotely, if yes, which ones?
  *   Are you assigning a proxy (fellow councilor) or temporary alternate for either the GNSO Council meeting or the duration of ICANN66? If so, please get a SG/C officer to fill in the abstention form with the exact dates needed: https://gnso.icann.org/en/council/abstention-notification-form-en.htm



Thank you! And please reach out to gnso-secs at icann.org<mailto:gnso-secs at icann.org> or Skype Terri or me, as we will be onsite.



Kind regards,



Nathalie











Nathalie Peregrine

Manager, Operations Support (GNSO)

Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)

Email: nathalie.peregrine at icann.org <http://nathalie.peregrine at icann.org%20>

Skype: nathalie.peregrine.icann



Find out more about the GNSO by visiting: https://learn.icann.org/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__learn.icann.org_&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=jLNFXvpu9gNdUeHi-G6sjWNCF9w4_AwhzzUDFZy2elE&s=o7Auz997kA-HPv9PHJCjFVZw7Pgo8krw4MxfqCwBrIU&e=>

Follow @GNSO on Twitter: https://twitter.com/ICANN_GNSO <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__twitter.com_ICANN-5FGNSO&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=jLNFXvpu9gNdUeHi-G6sjWNCF9w4_AwhzzUDFZy2elE&s=kWw4fQPNjw2lVKy1UjTxS2F0BmjEAzaDFWNmsYywbmE&e=>

Transcripts and recordings of GNSO Working Group and Council events are located on the GNSO Master Calendar <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_group-2Dactivities_calendar&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=jLNFXvpu9gNdUeHi-G6sjWNCF9w4_AwhzzUDFZy2elE&s=-L6chFfv0OperrXHHpTF722WnH3FZIutn4cS16IvpOg&e=>

See All SO and AC events on the ICANN Global calendar<https://features.icann.org/calendar>





--
--

Elsa Saade
Consultant
Gulf Centre for Human Rights
Twitter: @Elsa_Saade




_______________________________________________
NCSG-PC mailing list
NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc


_______________________________________________
NCSG-PC mailing list
NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc

_______________________________________________
NCSG-PC mailing list
NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
--
Farzaneh
_______________________________________________
NCSG-PC mailing list
NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:NCSG-PC at lists.ncsg.is>
https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc
_______________________________________________
NCSG-EC mailing list
NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec



_______________________________________________
NCSG-EC mailing list
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https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec

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From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Sun Nov  3 16:25:24 2019
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Rapha=C3=ABl_Beauregard=2DLacroix?=)
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2019 09:25:24 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-EC] One agenda item for today: Wapix
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-pT_P7ja+BDJXX3ZFus_NJTZUfvSsZvKPQGaXbWx5G3Hg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all

I know, I'm always the one talking about this stuff. New EC meeting, new
discussion about money and Wapix!

Isn't that great?

Whether you agree to that statement, here are some documents for you.
Apologies in advance for the close notice. It is not expected that you will
read those, but this is what I base my summary on. I'll hopefully go
through it during our meeting.


   - A summary google doc from me:
   https://docs.google.com/document/d/1L6P8BzvQhak6w3n6oTBL9Xy0cdBEsQrLKcixZlXZpWQ/edit
   - Past year's SLA with Wapix
   - Current SLA offerings
   - Current SLA suggestion (based on their offerings)


Sam, as you are currently the acting FC director, I loop you in. Feel free
to share with those involved with the FC; at this point I don't really know
who's on the FC list so I'll leave you the discretion of sharing with
specific persons as the case may be.

See you in a few,
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From robin at ipjustice.org  Sun Nov  3 17:53:23 2019
From: robin at ipjustice.org (Robin Gross)
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2019 07:53:23 -0800
Subject: [NCSG-EC] draft for constituency review process
Message-ID: <C07FFB23-5B77-4133-8C25-45B406719EF5@ipjustice.org>


https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FuLOjI-g-HaaKtdc9CQ6DkDJ7rWMHfaLlOb63ZHdYm0/edit

From plommer at gmail.com  Sun Nov  3 21:44:16 2019
From: plommer at gmail.com (Raoul Plommer)
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2019 21:44:16 +0200
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Fwd: NCSG Membership Application
In-Reply-To: <CAKTvXvn69ewJ0_bnRAxuwn6ack5WMzu2U-r0KwRn5bJC9BBDVw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DAAE6A04-F859-4534-A8BD-67EA2D51F43A@icann.org>
 <D079FE6A-87C4-48D2-9BE2-FF583B54A3B8@icann.org>
 <7F8F7DE6-B2AE-4448-AC18-EAEF7DA506D1@icann.org>
 <CAKTvXvn69ewJ0_bnRAxuwn6ack5WMzu2U-r0KwRn5bJC9BBDVw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADirp9Sc_LAp7gE4ovyq0XeQhnk3pUrKix8M3wjq_PZBN0BG2w@mail.gmail.com>

Here's an RFI-response coming back to us. The organisation sounds good to
me but we might want to ask for how are they concerned with the DNS.

-Raoul

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Pirabarlen Cheenaramen <selven at hackers.mu>
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2019 at 20:34
Subject: Re: NCSG Membership Application
To: Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>
Cc: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>,
plommer at gmail.com <plommer at gmail.com>


Hi Maryam, sorry for the late reply, the mail was in spam. The organisation
interest is in teaching other younger developers and students in Mauritius
about the whole range of open protocols there is and how they can use these
to better their community from it.

Hackers.mu has been involved in a few ietf hackathons in the past. It has
as well continuously kept doing regular developer formation throughout the
Mauritus island for free.

We do not do any commercial activities. We focus mainly on learning. The
organisation is funded mainly by various Mauritian developers who live in
different countries out of country, myself among. The hope is to create
better developers with focus in using IT and opensource to help any in
solving any societal problems we may have around. One example, we are
working on some blood research with doctors so as we can quickly match up
donors with patients who need it as well as help blood researchers perform
research. It is still a work in progress, but we do not seek revenue
whether directly or indirectly for these things.  We seek only to empower
our youth.

Regards,
Pirabarlen Cheenaramen



On Thu, Aug 8, 2019, 4:00 PM Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>
wrote:

> Dear Selven,
>
>
>
> I hope this email meets you well.
>
>
>
> Please could you respond to the email below. The NCSG Executive Committee
> is requesting this information and will make a final decision on your
> application in 1 month.
>
>
>
>
>
> Many thanks,
>
> --
>
>
>
> *Maryam Bakoshi* | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
>
> *ICANN* | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
>
> *S*: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | *T*: +44 7846 471777
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>
> *Date: *Wednesday, 26 June 2019 at 11:44
> *To: *"selven at hackers.mu" <selven at hackers.mu>
> *Subject: *NCSG Membership Application
>
>
>
> Dear Pirabarlen,
>
>
>
> Thank you for your interest in the Non-commercial Stakeholder Group.
>
>
>
> Please could you let us know what your Organizations? interest in ICANN
> and the Domain Name System. Also please tell us how are you funded as an
> Organization.
>
>
>
> Many thanks,
>
> --
>
>
>
> *Maryam Bakoshi* | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
>
> *ICANN* | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
>
> *S*: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | *T*: +44 7846 471777
>
>
>
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From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Sun Nov  3 22:40:46 2019
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Rapha=C3=ABl_Beauregard=2DLacroix?=)
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2019 15:40:46 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Action points on Wapix and money from EC meeting Nov 3rd.
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-rkCV8B0BBxK8t=7_FVFsA1NNCGLeNwe97RETu-uhoRhw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all

Action points from today on my part (I'll let Robin fill us in re her own;
I suppose there are ;) )


   - ALL: Look for alternatives to Wapix. In order for this to lead to
   something constructive and usable, I would kindly ask you to look for the
   following information: (1) The hourly rate for CIVIcrm web development and
   (2) the monthly rate for basic maintenance of a CIVIcrm database. Make sure
   to know what such rate includes (things like hosting, etc.)
   - Raoul: Map two things: (1) "political" structure of NCSG/NCUC/NPOC in
   a format understandable for someone who has no idea what we're up to. I
   think such a map/chart should include things like elections, appointments,
   memberships, etc. (2) "data processing" structure, that shows what kind of
   data inputs we have and how we process them (think of membership
   registration and elections, for example). I'm trying to phrase that in lay
   terms here; maybe what I'm writing doesn't make much sense from a data
   science perspective...
   - Me: Go back to Josh and discuss the following: (1) Can we extract data
   from CIVI and if so under what format or "conditions" (2) What's up with
   the options on their plans
   - Me: Put together all the Wapix expenses info from 2018 and 2019 and
   share it on list, so that both NCUC and NPOC EC can consult it and file it
   accordingly.


See you around,
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Mon Nov  4 21:35:02 2019
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2019 19:35:02 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Fwd: Fwd: [Ext] Re: Invitation - RSVP - ICANN Leadership
 Program (LP) 2020
In-Reply-To: <CBE4FFD2-6B80-4E03-8518-167C037A3F44@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <CBE4FFD2-6B80-4E03-8518-167C037A3F44@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <bf63a12e-6f28-00d9-9f98-dc69ae429e2c@mail.utoronto.ca>

Hi folks, my apologies for the late notice....but we need to find two people for the leadership program.  So I gave us the weekend to agree on the selections.  lets hope we get some applicants....

cheers Steph


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject:        Fwd: [Ext] Re: Invitation - RSVP - ICANN Leadership Program (LP) 2020
Date:   Mon, 4 Nov 2019 13:49:17 -0500
From:   U Of T <stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA><mailto:stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA>
Reply-To:       U Of T <stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA><mailto:stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA>
To:     NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU<mailto:NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU>



Mea culpa.  I don?t think this important opportunity was sent to the full list. Please note that this training is designed for people in leadership positions, who have not had the training before. Please do not apply if you are not in or entering a leadership position. Please submit your statement of interest to me, cc Maryam Bakoshi by Friday November 8, 2019.  The NCSG EC will make the decision.
Thanks!
Stephanie Perrin
NCSG Chair
Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

From: Public Responsibility Support <prs at icann.org><mailto:prs at icann.org>
Date: November 4, 2019 at 13:11:18 EST
To: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA><mailto:stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA>
Cc: Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org><mailto:maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>, Ergys Ramaj <ergys.ramaj at icann.org><mailto:ergys.ramaj at icann.org>, Sandra Hoferichter <info at hoferichter.eu><mailto:info at hoferichter.eu>
Subject: Re:  [Ext] Re: Invitation - RSVP - ICANN Leadership Program (LP) 2020

?
Dear Stephanie,

This is to kindly remind you to please respond to the Leadership Program call for nominations (below) by next Wednesday, 13 November 2019.
The registration link can be found here<https://forms.gle/uJ73rT62EssjoBj99>.
If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Best regards,
The PRS Team

From: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca><mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>
Date: Wednesday, October 2, 2019 at 1:17 PM
To: Public Responsibility Support <prs at icann.org><mailto:prs at icann.org>
Cc: Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org><mailto:maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>, Ergys Ramaj <ergys.ramaj at icann.org><mailto:ergys.ramaj at icann.org>, Sandra Hoferichter <info at hoferichter.eu><mailto:info at hoferichter.eu>
Subject: [Ext] Re: Invitation - RSVP - ICANN Leadership Program (LP) 2020


Thanks Sandra and Ergys,

Great news that this valuable program is continuing.  We will find you a couple of candidates as soon as possible.

Kind regards,

Stephanie
On 2019-10-02 10:57, Public Responsibility Support wrote:
Dear Stephanie,

The ICANN Academy Leadership Program (LP) during the ICANN64 Meeting in Kobe<https://community.icann.org/display/LTP/2019+Leadership+Program> was another success and we are now preparing the 7thedition that is scheduled to take place 5-6 March 2020, two days prior to the official start of ICANN67 in Canc?n, Mexico.

For this program, 1 (one) seat is reserved for a representative from the NCSG. The program is designed for current and incoming leaders, helping to increase understanding of the complexity of ICANN and to develop facilitation skills, as well as building a network with other leaders. We are aware that understanding ICANN as an organization, the topics discussed within ICANN, and interaction within other stakeholder groups can be challenging for incoming leaders, but sometimes also for experienced leaders. ICANN and the community are making considerable efforts in order to help incoming leaders have a good start to their terms and to provide current leaders the opportunity to strengthen their leadership and facilitation skills. Opportunities for Leadership Program participants include the following:

  *   Meet leaders from the other SOs/ACs and get an insight of the functionality and issues in other groups
  *   Discuss current ICANN topics in an in-depth manner
  *   Deepen the understanding of key ICANN processes
  *   Develop facilitation and leadership skills, focused personal effectiveness to run meetings and foster processes

A preliminary program is attached to this email. Kindly note that this is subject to change.
Accommodation for participants will be covered between Wednesday and Thursday, 4-5 March 2020, and participants will receive a stipend. Please note that flights will NOT be covered under this program, as incoming and current leaders are normally covered by the regular ICANN travel support. Please ensure that the leaders you select are being covered by ICANN Travel Support for their flights to Cancun for ICANN67.

We would like to ask you to identify one incoming or current leader from your stakeholder group who is interested and available to participate in this program. We recommend that you also identify an alternate candidate. Kindly forward us the names and email addresses of the endorsed individuals no later than Wednesday, 13 November 2019, and ask them to register here [forms.gle]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__forms.gle_zpt1gSSayKGgjVAD9&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=Nnp-tU3d16B77XttzGRBzdAOZlRaYJmiqhsYrUnr3I4&m=eugun6JhOfJOmGRjjm0TP1K2Gy-g9j62oHK5eJ14Uh0&s=hV4LCdbMeSRwmx0ilkDhLmrniL5pUrnXiwdkQQTkNT8&e=> by Friday, 15 November 2019 at 23:59 UTC.

We hope this program will meet the needs of your community. All participants will be encouraged to partake in an open exchange of their views, as this will help facilitate cross-constituency collaboration during their terms.

We are very happy to answer any questions you may have on this exciting LP and look forward to having your group?s participants confirmed.

Kind regards,
Sandra Hoferichter, Chair of the ICANN Academy Working Group
Ergys Ramaj, VP, Public Responsibility Support
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Wed Nov  6 19:12:48 2019
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2019 17:12:48 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Resignation from the Chairmanship of the NCSG
Message-ID: <0f1cae73-ecfc-9841-74ea-70cf93670b08@mail.utoronto.ca>

Dear Colleagues,

As some of you are aware, I have decided to resign as Chair of the NCSG.  It is my belief that I do not have the confidence of the membership and former leaders of the NCSG.  I seem to be incapable of effectively chairing a meeting, and this is a new experience for me which I do not wish to continue. I do not appear to share the values of the group, and this troubles me deeply as I so not wish to lead a group of people who do not share my views as to what is right and what is wrong.

If you would be so kind as to appoint an interim Chair, effective at the end of this meeting, I will step down and clear the field for candidates who are more in line with the views of the membership in terms of priorities, strategies, and acceptable behaviour.  Hopefully we can get the election doen before Cancun.

Thanks very much for all your support, it has been a great honour to serve with you.

Kind regards,

Stephanie Perrin
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From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Wed Nov  6 21:18:51 2019
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Rapha=C3=ABl_Beauregard=2DLacroix?=)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2019 14:18:51 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Resignation from the Chairmanship of the NCSG
In-Reply-To: <0f1cae73-ecfc-9841-74ea-70cf93670b08@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <0f1cae73-ecfc-9841-74ea-70cf93670b08@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-pLs+NeQ-HNR8Vd7KTJXpJFQbX_m=r3WafLvo1cuF6vfg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Stephanie,

It appears that as per the Charter, we at the EC have to formally accept
your resignation.

As I have told you, although I think that the disagreement is not at the
level of values, I personally do not plan to hold you against your will...

I see the disagreement as being related to what falls within the scope of
the duties of the chair and what does not.

That being said, with active support from my fellow EC members, I would be
willing to be the interim chair and deliver the elections.

In addition, I would be glad to work with you Stephanie to start and finish
the work on the job description for the chair. Could be useful for the
elections.

A nice day to all,

On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 12:12 PM Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <
ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:

> Dear Colleagues,
>
> As some of you are aware, I have decided to resign as Chair of the NCSG.
> It is my belief that I do not have the confidence of the membership and
> former leaders of the NCSG.  I seem to be incapable of effectively chairing
> a meeting, and this is a new experience for me which I do not wish to
> continue. I do not appear to share the values of the group, and this
> troubles me deeply as I so not wish to lead a group of people who do not
> share my views as to what is right and what is wrong.
>
> If you would be so kind as to appoint an interim Chair, effective at the
> end of this meeting, I will step down and clear the field for candidates
> who are more in line with the views of the membership in terms of
> priorities, strategies, and acceptable behaviour.  Hopefully we can get the
> election doen before Cancun.
>
> Thanks very much for all your support, it has been a great honour to serve
> with you.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Stephanie Perrin
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Wed Nov  6 21:23:02 2019
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2019 19:23:02 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Resignation from the Chairmanship of the NCSG
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-pLs+NeQ-HNR8Vd7KTJXpJFQbX_m=r3WafLvo1cuF6vfg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0f1cae73-ecfc-9841-74ea-70cf93670b08@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAPZSw-pLs+NeQ-HNR8Vd7KTJXpJFQbX_m=r3WafLvo1cuF6vfg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c9c27087-5abe-64d3-c405-823033020a31@mail.utoronto.ca>

Thanks very much for your support and your willingness to come forward and sit as interim Chair.  This is great news.

I will prepare a message for the list, and let you know when I am about to send it so that you can be ready to answer any questions.

Kind regards,

Stephanie

On 2019-11-06 14:18, Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix wrote:
Hi Stephanie,

It appears that as per the Charter, we at the EC have to formally accept your resignation.

As I have told you, although I think that the disagreement is not at the level of values, I personally do not plan to hold you against your will...

I see the disagreement as being related to what falls within the scope of the duties of the chair and what does not.

That being said, with active support from my fellow EC members, I would be willing to be the interim chair and deliver the elections.

In addition, I would be glad to work with you Stephanie to start and finish the work on the job description for the chair. Could be useful for the elections.

A nice day to all,

On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 12:12 PM Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:

Dear Colleagues,

As some of you are aware, I have decided to resign as Chair of the NCSG.  It is my belief that I do not have the confidence of the membership and former leaders of the NCSG.  I seem to be incapable of effectively chairing a meeting, and this is a new experience for me which I do not wish to continue. I do not appear to share the values of the group, and this troubles me deeply as I so not wish to lead a group of people who do not share my views as to what is right and what is wrong.

If you would be so kind as to appoint an interim Chair, effective at the end of this meeting, I will step down and clear the field for candidates who are more in line with the views of the membership in terms of priorities, strategies, and acceptable behaviour.  Hopefully we can get the election doen before Cancun.

Thanks very much for all your support, it has been a great honour to serve with you.

Kind regards,

Stephanie Perrin

_______________________________________________
NCSG-EC mailing list
NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
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From plommer at gmail.com  Thu Nov  7 00:24:56 2019
From: plommer at gmail.com (Raoul Plommer)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2019 00:24:56 +0200
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Resignation from the Chairmanship of the NCSG
In-Reply-To: <c9c27087-5abe-64d3-c405-823033020a31@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <0f1cae73-ecfc-9841-74ea-70cf93670b08@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAPZSw-pLs+NeQ-HNR8Vd7KTJXpJFQbX_m=r3WafLvo1cuF6vfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <c9c27087-5abe-64d3-c405-823033020a31@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <CADirp9ShH3uwCk2qYBEeMt1FJzmgKBi-csAOnS7To+Q829Dozg@mail.gmail.com>

I'm fine with Raphael taking the interim chair's position, although I would
love to see you reconsider, Stephanie, for all of our sakes. I think you're
your biggest criticiser and taking the usual suspects and whining too
personally. You might think that a vote of confidence was made, but I can
assure you, the next chair will most likely be even less popular. It's an
extremely tough environment to chair and to be honest, I think you've
actually done everything that a chair is expected to do - you just set the
bar too high for yourself with all the other responsibilities you were
hogging, including the EPDP especially.

I doubt that you will, but if you DID reconsider continuing, I'm really
quite sure, everyone would be largely relieved.

-Raoul

On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 at 21:23, Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <
ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:

> Thanks very much for your support and your willingness to come forward and
> sit as interim Chair.  This is great news.
>
> I will prepare a message for the list, and let you know when I am about to
> send it so that you can be ready to answer any questions.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Stephanie
> On 2019-11-06 14:18, Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix wrote:
>
> Hi Stephanie,
>
> It appears that as per the Charter, we at the EC have to formally accept
> your resignation.
>
> As I have told you, although I think that the disagreement is not at the
> level of values, I personally do not plan to hold you against your will...
>
> I see the disagreement as being related to what falls within the scope of
> the duties of the chair and what does not.
>
> That being said, with active support from my fellow EC members, I would be
> willing to be the interim chair and deliver the elections.
>
> In addition, I would be glad to work with you Stephanie to start and
> finish the work on the job description for the chair. Could be useful for
> the elections.
>
> A nice day to all,
>
> On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 12:12 PM Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <
> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>
>> Dear Colleagues,
>>
>> As some of you are aware, I have decided to resign as Chair of the NCSG.
>> It is my belief that I do not have the confidence of the membership and
>> former leaders of the NCSG.  I seem to be incapable of effectively chairing
>> a meeting, and this is a new experience for me which I do not wish to
>> continue. I do not appear to share the values of the group, and this
>> troubles me deeply as I so not wish to lead a group of people who do not
>> share my views as to what is right and what is wrong.
>>
>> If you would be so kind as to appoint an interim Chair, effective at the
>> end of this meeting, I will step down and clear the field for candidates
>> who are more in line with the views of the membership in terms of
>> priorities, strategies, and acceptable behaviour.  Hopefully we can get the
>> election doen before Cancun.
>>
>> Thanks very much for all your support, it has been a great honour to
>> serve with you.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Stephanie Perrin
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Thu Nov  7 01:06:28 2019
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2019 23:06:28 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Resignation from the Chairmanship of the NCSG
In-Reply-To: <CADirp9ShH3uwCk2qYBEeMt1FJzmgKBi-csAOnS7To+Q829Dozg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0f1cae73-ecfc-9841-74ea-70cf93670b08@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAPZSw-pLs+NeQ-HNR8Vd7KTJXpJFQbX_m=r3WafLvo1cuF6vfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <c9c27087-5abe-64d3-c405-823033020a31@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CADirp9ShH3uwCk2qYBEeMt1FJzmgKBi-csAOnS7To+Q829Dozg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b8c1006d-7d6c-65e0-d5e9-d065ab208b95@mail.utoronto.ca>

Thanks so much Raoul, it is very sweet of you to say this.  I am sorry to leave.

SP

On 2019-11-06 17:24, Raoul Plommer wrote:
I'm fine with Raphael taking the interim chair's position, although I would love to see you reconsider, Stephanie, for all of our sakes. I think you're your biggest criticiser and taking the usual suspects and whining too personally. You might think that a vote of confidence was made, but I can assure you, the next chair will most likely be even less popular. It's an extremely tough environment to chair and to be honest, I think you've actually done everything that a chair is expected to do - you just set the bar too high for yourself with all the other responsibilities you were hogging, including the EPDP especially.

I doubt that you will, but if you DID reconsider continuing, I'm really quite sure, everyone would be largely relieved.

-Raoul

On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 at 21:23, Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:

Thanks very much for your support and your willingness to come forward and sit as interim Chair.  This is great news.

I will prepare a message for the list, and let you know when I am about to send it so that you can be ready to answer any questions.

Kind regards,

Stephanie

On 2019-11-06 14:18, Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix wrote:
Hi Stephanie,

It appears that as per the Charter, we at the EC have to formally accept your resignation.

As I have told you, although I think that the disagreement is not at the level of values, I personally do not plan to hold you against your will...

I see the disagreement as being related to what falls within the scope of the duties of the chair and what does not.

That being said, with active support from my fellow EC members, I would be willing to be the interim chair and deliver the elections.

In addition, I would be glad to work with you Stephanie to start and finish the work on the job description for the chair. Could be useful for the elections.

A nice day to all,

On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 12:12 PM Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:

Dear Colleagues,

As some of you are aware, I have decided to resign as Chair of the NCSG.  It is my belief that I do not have the confidence of the membership and former leaders of the NCSG.  I seem to be incapable of effectively chairing a meeting, and this is a new experience for me which I do not wish to continue. I do not appear to share the values of the group, and this troubles me deeply as I so not wish to lead a group of people who do not share my views as to what is right and what is wrong.

If you would be so kind as to appoint an interim Chair, effective at the end of this meeting, I will step down and clear the field for candidates who are more in line with the views of the membership in terms of priorities, strategies, and acceptable behaviour.  Hopefully we can get the election doen before Cancun.

Thanks very much for all your support, it has been a great honour to serve with you.

Kind regards,

Stephanie Perrin

_______________________________________________
NCSG-EC mailing list
NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
_______________________________________________
NCSG-EC mailing list
NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
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From farzaneh.badii at gmail.com  Thu Nov  7 01:16:16 2019
From: farzaneh.badii at gmail.com (farzaneh badii)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2019 18:16:16 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Resignation from the Chairmanship of the NCSG
In-Reply-To: <b8c1006d-7d6c-65e0-d5e9-d065ab208b95@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <0f1cae73-ecfc-9841-74ea-70cf93670b08@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAPZSw-pLs+NeQ-HNR8Vd7KTJXpJFQbX_m=r3WafLvo1cuF6vfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <c9c27087-5abe-64d3-c405-823033020a31@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CADirp9ShH3uwCk2qYBEeMt1FJzmgKBi-csAOnS7To+Q829Dozg@mail.gmail.com>
 <b8c1006d-7d6c-65e0-d5e9-d065ab208b95@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <CAN1qJvD4-TD_dXbE_9FA95K=Q3uv03t-eV7vSB+mk7gQ0Phj2g@mail.gmail.com>

Observer

I agree with Raoul. Also agree with Raphael that is not a disagreement over
values. And talking for myself I would never lose my confidence in you. I
only have criticism about the approach. I apologize if not clear.

On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 6:06 PM Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <
ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:

> Thanks so much Raoul, it is very sweet of you to say this.  I am sorry to
> leave.
>
> SP
> On 2019-11-06 17:24, Raoul Plommer wrote:
>
> I'm fine with Raphael taking the interim chair's position, although I
> would love to see you reconsider, Stephanie, for all of our sakes. I think
> you're your biggest criticiser and taking the usual suspects and whining
> too personally. You might think that a vote of confidence was made, but I
> can assure you, the next chair will most likely be even less popular. It's
> an extremely tough environment to chair and to be honest, I think you've
> actually done everything that a chair is expected to do - you just set the
> bar too high for yourself with all the other responsibilities you were
> hogging, including the EPDP especially.
>
> I doubt that you will, but if you DID reconsider continuing, I'm really
> quite sure, everyone would be largely relieved.
>
> -Raoul
>
> On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 at 21:23, Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <
> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>
>> Thanks very much for your support and your willingness to come forward
>> and sit as interim Chair.  This is great news.
>>
>> I will prepare a message for the list, and let you know when I am about
>> to send it so that you can be ready to answer any questions.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Stephanie
>> On 2019-11-06 14:18, Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix wrote:
>>
>> Hi Stephanie,
>>
>> It appears that as per the Charter, we at the EC have to formally accept
>> your resignation.
>>
>> As I have told you, although I think that the disagreement is not at the
>> level of values, I personally do not plan to hold you against your will...
>>
>> I see the disagreement as being related to what falls within the scope of
>> the duties of the chair and what does not.
>>
>> That being said, with active support from my fellow EC members, I would
>> be willing to be the interim chair and deliver the elections.
>>
>> In addition, I would be glad to work with you Stephanie to start and
>> finish the work on the job description for the chair. Could be useful for
>> the elections.
>>
>> A nice day to all,
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 12:12 PM Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <
>> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>>
>>> As some of you are aware, I have decided to resign as Chair of the
>>> NCSG.  It is my belief that I do not have the confidence of the membership
>>> and former leaders of the NCSG.  I seem to be incapable of effectively
>>> chairing a meeting, and this is a new experience for me which I do not wish
>>> to continue. I do not appear to share the values of the group, and this
>>> troubles me deeply as I so not wish to lead a group of people who do not
>>> share my views as to what is right and what is wrong.
>>>
>>> If you would be so kind as to appoint an interim Chair, effective at the
>>> end of this meeting, I will step down and clear the field for candidates
>>> who are more in line with the views of the membership in terms of
>>> priorities, strategies, and acceptable behaviour.  Hopefully we can get the
>>> election doen before Cancun.
>>>
>>> Thanks very much for all your support, it has been a great honour to
>>> serve with you.
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>> Stephanie Perrin
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
-- 
Farzaneh
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From jumaropi at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  7 01:30:57 2019
From: jumaropi at yahoo.com (Juan Manuel Rojas)
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2019 23:30:57 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Resignation from the Chairmanship of the NCSG
In-Reply-To: <CADirp9ShH3uwCk2qYBEeMt1FJzmgKBi-csAOnS7To+Q829Dozg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0f1cae73-ecfc-9841-74ea-70cf93670b08@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAPZSw-pLs+NeQ-HNR8Vd7KTJXpJFQbX_m=r3WafLvo1cuF6vfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <c9c27087-5abe-64d3-c405-823033020a31@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CADirp9ShH3uwCk2qYBEeMt1FJzmgKBi-csAOnS7To+Q829Dozg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1335513178.437023.1573083057432@mail.yahoo.com>

Hi StephanieRegarding to your resignation I should say that maybe it is an extreme measure, I hope you reconsider your decision, if not I will agree with Raphael?s asuming those tasks.?
Stephanie, I hope that beyond your final decision you?ll still be working on policy as you have done in the past. I think that your job is still in progress and there are some tasks that needs completing and we?ll work together to complete them.?
Juan Manuel?


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, November 6, 2019, 5:24 PM, Raoul Plommer via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:

I'm fine with Raphael taking the interim chair's position, although I would love to see you reconsider, Stephanie, for all of our sakes. I think you're your biggest criticiser and taking the usual suspects and whining too personally. You might think that a vote of confidence was made, but I can assure you, the next chair will most likely be even less popular. It's an extremely tough environment to chair and to be honest, I think you've actually done everything that a chair is expected to do - you just set the bar too high for yourself with all the other responsibilities?you were hogging, including the EPDP especially.

I doubt that you will, but if you DID reconsider continuing, I'm really quite sure, everyone would be largely relieved.

-Raoul
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 at 21:23, Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:


Thanks very much for your support and your willingness to come forward and sit as interim Chair.? This is great news.

I will prepare a message for the list, and let you know when I am about to send it so that you can be ready to answer any questions.

Kind regards,

Stephanie

On 2019-11-06 14:18, Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix wrote:

Hi Stephanie,
It appears that as per the Charter, we at the EC have to formally accept your resignation.?
As I have told you, although I think that the disagreement is not at the level of values, I personally do not plan to hold you against your will...
I see the disagreement as being related to what falls within the scope of the duties of the chair and what does not.?
That being said, with active support from my fellow EC members, I would be willing to be the interim chair and deliver the elections.
In addition, I would be glad to work with you Stephanie to start and finish the work on the job description for the chair. Could be useful for the elections.?
A nice day to all,
On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 12:12 PM Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:


Dear Colleagues,

As some of you are aware, I have decided to resign as Chair of the NCSG.? It is my belief that I do not have the confidence of the membership and former leaders of the NCSG.? I seem to be incapable of effectively chairing a meeting, and this is a new experience for me which I do not wish to continue. I do not appear to share the values of the group, and this troubles me deeply as I so not wish to lead a group of people who do not share my views as to what is right and what is wrong.

If you would be so kind as to appoint an interim Chair, effective at the end of this meeting, I will step down and clear the field for candidates who are more in line with the views of the membership in terms of priorities, strategies, and acceptable behaviour.? Hopefully we can get the election doen before Cancun.


Thanks very much for all your support, it has been a great honour to serve with you.

Kind regards, 


Stephanie Perrin

_______________________________________________
NCSG-EC mailing list
NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec


_______________________________________________
NCSG-EC mailing list
NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec

_______________________________________________
NCSG-EC mailing list
NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec



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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Fri Nov  8 00:33:26 2019
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2019 22:33:26 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Resignation from the Chairmanship of the NCSG
In-Reply-To: <1335513178.437023.1573083057432@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <0f1cae73-ecfc-9841-74ea-70cf93670b08@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAPZSw-pLs+NeQ-HNR8Vd7KTJXpJFQbX_m=r3WafLvo1cuF6vfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <c9c27087-5abe-64d3-c405-823033020a31@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CADirp9ShH3uwCk2qYBEeMt1FJzmgKBi-csAOnS7To+Q829Dozg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1335513178.437023.1573083057432@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <d52bb6ca-0edf-a561-4286-e2e24d8a6dc7@mail.utoronto.ca>

First of all, I really want to thank you for your support.  It is heart warming, really,  This is a lonely job.

I just wanted you to know that I am seriously reconsidering my resignation.

Kind regards and safe travels!

Steph

On 2019-11-06 18:30, Juan Manuel Rojas wrote:
Hi Stephanie
Regarding to your resignation I should say that maybe it is an extreme measure, I hope you reconsider your decision, if not I will agree with Raphael?s asuming those tasks.

Stephanie, I hope that beyond your final decision you?ll still be working on policy as you have done in the past. I think that your job is still in progress and there are some tasks that needs completing and we?ll work together to complete them.

Juan Manuel


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone<https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS>


On Wednesday, November 6, 2019, 5:24 PM, Raoul Plommer via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is><mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:

I'm fine with Raphael taking the interim chair's position, although I would love to see you reconsider, Stephanie, for all of our sakes. I think you're your biggest criticiser and taking the usual suspects and whining too personally. You might think that a vote of confidence was made, but I can assure you, the next chair will most likely be even less popular. It's an extremely tough environment to chair and to be honest, I think you've actually done everything that a chair is expected to do - you just set the bar too high for yourself with all the other responsibilities you were hogging, including the EPDP especially.

I doubt that you will, but if you DID reconsider continuing, I'm really quite sure, everyone would be largely relieved.

-Raoul

On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 at 21:23, Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:

Thanks very much for your support and your willingness to come forward and sit as interim Chair.  This is great news.

I will prepare a message for the list, and let you know when I am about to send it so that you can be ready to answer any questions.

Kind regards,

Stephanie

On 2019-11-06 14:18, Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix wrote:
Hi Stephanie,

It appears that as per the Charter, we at the EC have to formally accept your resignation.

As I have told you, although I think that the disagreement is not at the level of values, I personally do not plan to hold you against your will...

I see the disagreement as being related to what falls within the scope of the duties of the chair and what does not.

That being said, with active support from my fellow EC members, I would be willing to be the interim chair and deliver the elections.

In addition, I would be glad to work with you Stephanie to start and finish the work on the job description for the chair. Could be useful for the elections.

A nice day to all,

On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 12:12 PM Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:

Dear Colleagues,

As some of you are aware, I have decided to resign as Chair of the NCSG.  It is my belief that I do not have the confidence of the membership and former leaders of the NCSG.  I seem to be incapable of effectively chairing a meeting, and this is a new experience for me which I do not wish to continue. I do not appear to share the values of the group, and this troubles me deeply as I so not wish to lead a group of people who do not share my views as to what is right and what is wrong.

If you would be so kind as to appoint an interim Chair, effective at the end of this meeting, I will step down and clear the field for candidates who are more in line with the views of the membership in terms of priorities, strategies, and acceptable behaviour.  Hopefully we can get the election doen before Cancun.

Thanks very much for all your support, it has been a great honour to serve with you.

Kind regards,

Stephanie Perrin

_______________________________________________
NCSG-EC mailing list
NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
_______________________________________________
NCSG-EC mailing list
NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
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From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Fri Nov  8 01:02:01 2019
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Rapha=C3=ABl_Beauregard=2DLacroix?=)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2019 18:02:01 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Resignation from the Chairmanship of the NCSG
In-Reply-To: <d52bb6ca-0edf-a561-4286-e2e24d8a6dc7@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <0f1cae73-ecfc-9841-74ea-70cf93670b08@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAPZSw-pLs+NeQ-HNR8Vd7KTJXpJFQbX_m=r3WafLvo1cuF6vfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <c9c27087-5abe-64d3-c405-823033020a31@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CADirp9ShH3uwCk2qYBEeMt1FJzmgKBi-csAOnS7To+Q829Dozg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1335513178.437023.1573083057432@mail.yahoo.com>
 <d52bb6ca-0edf-a561-4286-e2e24d8a6dc7@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-q4oceYa7p5PczLCd=scPn68gg+_qSJcP6pCx1-eFZMew@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Steph,

Given that I'm not technically interim chair yet, I suppose you're still
free to come back ;)

Beyond procedural quips, I'd be glad to have you reconsider your decision.
Surely, what would then have been a hiccup would be a good opportunity to
start taking the steps towards a better NCSG...

Take the night to think about it at least. A lot has happened today.

Nice travels to all,

On Thu, Nov 7, 2019 at 5:33 PM Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <
ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:

> First of all, I really want to thank you for your support.  It is heart
> warming, really,  This is a lonely job.
>
> I just wanted you to know that I am seriously reconsidering my resignation.
>
> Kind regards and safe travels!
>
> Steph
> On 2019-11-06 18:30, Juan Manuel Rojas wrote:
>
> Hi Stephanie
> Regarding to your resignation I should say that maybe it is an extreme
> measure, I hope you reconsider your decision, if not I will agree with
> Raphael?s asuming those tasks.
>
> Stephanie, I hope that beyond your final decision you?ll still be working
> on policy as you have done in the past. I think that your job is still in
> progress and there are some tasks that needs completing and we?ll work
> together to complete them.
>
> Juan Manuel
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS>
>
> On Wednesday, November 6, 2019, 5:24 PM, Raoul Plommer via NCSG-EC
> <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>
> I'm fine with Raphael taking the interim chair's position, although I
> would love to see you reconsider, Stephanie, for all of our sakes. I think
> you're your biggest criticiser and taking the usual suspects and whining
> too personally. You might think that a vote of confidence was made, but I
> can assure you, the next chair will most likely be even less popular. It's
> an extremely tough environment to chair and to be honest, I think you've
> actually done everything that a chair is expected to do - you just set the
> bar too high for yourself with all the other responsibilities you were
> hogging, including the EPDP especially.
>
> I doubt that you will, but if you DID reconsider continuing, I'm really
> quite sure, everyone would be largely relieved.
>
> -Raoul
>
> On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 at 21:23, Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <
> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>
> Thanks very much for your support and your willingness to come forward and
> sit as interim Chair.  This is great news.
>
> I will prepare a message for the list, and let you know when I am about to
> send it so that you can be ready to answer any questions.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Stephanie
> On 2019-11-06 14:18, Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix wrote:
>
> Hi Stephanie,
>
> It appears that as per the Charter, we at the EC have to formally accept
> your resignation.
>
> As I have told you, although I think that the disagreement is not at the
> level of values, I personally do not plan to hold you against your will...
>
> I see the disagreement as being related to what falls within the scope of
> the duties of the chair and what does not.
>
> That being said, with active support from my fellow EC members, I would be
> willing to be the interim chair and deliver the elections.
>
> In addition, I would be glad to work with you Stephanie to start and
> finish the work on the job description for the chair. Could be useful for
> the elections.
>
> A nice day to all,
>
> On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 12:12 PM Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <
> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>
> Dear Colleagues,
>
> As some of you are aware, I have decided to resign as Chair of the NCSG.
> It is my belief that I do not have the confidence of the membership and
> former leaders of the NCSG.  I seem to be incapable of effectively chairing
> a meeting, and this is a new experience for me which I do not wish to
> continue. I do not appear to share the values of the group, and this
> troubles me deeply as I so not wish to lead a group of people who do not
> share my views as to what is right and what is wrong.
>
> If you would be so kind as to appoint an interim Chair, effective at the
> end of this meeting, I will step down and clear the field for candidates
> who are more in line with the views of the membership in terms of
> priorities, strategies, and acceptable behaviour.  Hopefully we can get the
> election doen before Cancun.
>
> Thanks very much for all your support, it has been a great honour to serve
> with you.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Stephanie Perrin
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Fri Nov  8 01:15:46 2019
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2019 23:15:46 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Resignation from the Chairmanship of the NCSG
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-q4oceYa7p5PczLCd=scPn68gg+_qSJcP6pCx1-eFZMew@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0f1cae73-ecfc-9841-74ea-70cf93670b08@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAPZSw-pLs+NeQ-HNR8Vd7KTJXpJFQbX_m=r3WafLvo1cuF6vfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <c9c27087-5abe-64d3-c405-823033020a31@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CADirp9ShH3uwCk2qYBEeMt1FJzmgKBi-csAOnS7To+Q829Dozg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1335513178.437023.1573083057432@mail.yahoo.com>
 <d52bb6ca-0edf-a561-4286-e2e24d8a6dc7@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAPZSw-q4oceYa7p5PczLCd=scPn68gg+_qSJcP6pCx1-eFZMew@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <460abf8b-f246-c7f5-0c04-678b6607ea6b@mail.utoronto.ca>

sorry for the flip flop Raph, I know you were just dying for the work...:-D

I am indeed pondering over the weekend, where my family will attempt to work on me again.

cheers Steph


On 2019-11-07 18:02, Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix wrote:
Hi Steph,

Given that I'm not technically interim chair yet, I suppose you're still free to come back ;)

Beyond procedural quips, I'd be glad to have you reconsider your decision. Surely, what would then have been a hiccup would be a good opportunity to start taking the steps towards a better NCSG...

Take the night to think about it at least. A lot has happened today.

Nice travels to all,

On Thu, Nov 7, 2019 at 5:33 PM Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:

First of all, I really want to thank you for your support.  It is heart warming, really,  This is a lonely job.

I just wanted you to know that I am seriously reconsidering my resignation.

Kind regards and safe travels!

Steph

On 2019-11-06 18:30, Juan Manuel Rojas wrote:
Hi Stephanie
Regarding to your resignation I should say that maybe it is an extreme measure, I hope you reconsider your decision, if not I will agree with Raphael?s asuming those tasks.

Stephanie, I hope that beyond your final decision you?ll still be working on policy as you have done in the past. I think that your job is still in progress and there are some tasks that needs completing and we?ll work together to complete them.

Juan Manuel


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone<https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS>


On Wednesday, November 6, 2019, 5:24 PM, Raoul Plommer via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is><mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:

I'm fine with Raphael taking the interim chair's position, although I would love to see you reconsider, Stephanie, for all of our sakes. I think you're your biggest criticiser and taking the usual suspects and whining too personally. You might think that a vote of confidence was made, but I can assure you, the next chair will most likely be even less popular. It's an extremely tough environment to chair and to be honest, I think you've actually done everything that a chair is expected to do - you just set the bar too high for yourself with all the other responsibilities you were hogging, including the EPDP especially.

I doubt that you will, but if you DID reconsider continuing, I'm really quite sure, everyone would be largely relieved.

-Raoul

On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 at 21:23, Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:

Thanks very much for your support and your willingness to come forward and sit as interim Chair.  This is great news.

I will prepare a message for the list, and let you know when I am about to send it so that you can be ready to answer any questions.

Kind regards,

Stephanie

On 2019-11-06 14:18, Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix wrote:
Hi Stephanie,

It appears that as per the Charter, we at the EC have to formally accept your resignation.

As I have told you, although I think that the disagreement is not at the level of values, I personally do not plan to hold you against your will...

I see the disagreement as being related to what falls within the scope of the duties of the chair and what does not.

That being said, with active support from my fellow EC members, I would be willing to be the interim chair and deliver the elections.

In addition, I would be glad to work with you Stephanie to start and finish the work on the job description for the chair. Could be useful for the elections.

A nice day to all,

On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 12:12 PM Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:

Dear Colleagues,

As some of you are aware, I have decided to resign as Chair of the NCSG.  It is my belief that I do not have the confidence of the membership and former leaders of the NCSG.  I seem to be incapable of effectively chairing a meeting, and this is a new experience for me which I do not wish to continue. I do not appear to share the values of the group, and this troubles me deeply as I so not wish to lead a group of people who do not share my views as to what is right and what is wrong.

If you would be so kind as to appoint an interim Chair, effective at the end of this meeting, I will step down and clear the field for candidates who are more in line with the views of the membership in terms of priorities, strategies, and acceptable behaviour.  Hopefully we can get the election doen before Cancun.

Thanks very much for all your support, it has been a great honour to serve with you.

Kind regards,

Stephanie Perrin

_______________________________________________
NCSG-EC mailing list
NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
_______________________________________________
NCSG-EC mailing list
NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
_______________________________________________
NCSG-EC mailing list
NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
_______________________________________________
NCSG-EC mailing list
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https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Fri Nov  8 18:59:19 2019
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2019 16:59:19 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-EC] rescinding my resignation from the position of Chair of
 NCSG
Message-ID: <5ca4216b-768a-5149-dca8-9cc7f8998919@mail.utoronto.ca>

After considerable thought, I am rescinding my resignation as Chair, based on the supportive messages I have received from a number of members and leaders in our group.  I still think I have to deal with a significant demonstration of a lack of confidence in my leadership, but I am going to work on that.  I will send a summary of the progress we made here in our meetings to the NCSG list, and I may mention that I was considering stepping down after our meeting Tuesday, just in case the rumour mill has caught up with me.

I want to thank Raph for stepping forward to help and act as Interim leader, and I hope I can count on to help me with the job description for Chair.  We can also work on interim standards for behaviour on the list and in face to face meetings, whcih I will of course send to all ECs prior to send to the list.  It is clear that someone will have to stop disruptive behaviour and if the consensus is that it is the job of the Chair, then I shall tackle it, with reinforcement from the Ombudsman as necessary.

Thank you for bearing with me during what has been a difficult time.  I look forward to your help and cooperation as we move forward to improve the functioning of our stakeholder group.

Kind regards

Stephanie Perrin

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From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Fri Nov  8 19:34:09 2019
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Rapha=C3=ABl_Beauregard=2DLacroix?=)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2019 12:34:09 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-EC] rescinding my resignation from the position of Chair
 of NCSG
In-Reply-To: <5ca4216b-768a-5149-dca8-9cc7f8998919@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <5ca4216b-768a-5149-dca8-9cc7f8998919@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-pJzcCHaWf1Uw7zobwemkk7uo6_hAp_aANjJUYCYvu2xg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Stephanie,

Thank you for your message. I am glad you were able to find the wider
support among our leaders and members you were looking for.

I had prepared a short list with a few examples of verbal abuse that would
not be tolerated on list, on call or in person anymore. I will circulate
that on the EC list today so that we can move forward quickly with that. It
is somewhat of a superficial matter compared to other problems we are
facing, and it would not be meant to tackle the whole range of problematic
behaviours we are faced with. But at the same time I think it is important
to restore our membership's confidence in the mailing list as a pleasant
environment for policy discussions.

As I have told you yesterday, I think that the solution lies more in
regular small steps forward rather than long preparation for a single giant
step.

Have a nice day,

Best,

On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 11:59 AM Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <
ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:

> After considerable thought, I am rescinding my resignation as Chair, based
> on the supportive messages I have received from a number of members and
> leaders in our group.  I still think I have to deal with a significant
> demonstration of a lack of confidence in my leadership, but I am going to
> work on that.  I will send a summary of the progress we made here in our
> meetings to the NCSG list, and I may mention that I was considering
> stepping down after our meeting Tuesday, just in case the rumour mill has
> caught up with me.
>
> I want to thank Raph for stepping forward to help and act as Interim
> leader, and I hope I can count on to help me with the job description for
> Chair.  We can also work on interim standards for behaviour on the list and
> in face to face meetings, whcih I will of course send to all ECs prior to
> send to the list.  It is clear that someone will have to stop disruptive
> behaviour and if the consensus is that it is the job of the Chair, then I
> shall tackle it, with reinforcement from the Ombudsman as necessary.
>
> Thank you for bearing with me during what has been a difficult time.  I
> look forward to your help and cooperation as we move forward to improve the
> functioning of our stakeholder group.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Stephanie Perrin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
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From joankerr at fbsc.org  Fri Nov  8 20:06:59 2019
From: joankerr at fbsc.org (Joan Kerr)
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2019 13:06:59 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-EC] rescinding my resignation from the position of Chair
 of NCSG
In-Reply-To: <5ca4216b-768a-5149-dca8-9cc7f8998919@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <5ca4216b-768a-5149-dca8-9cc7f8998919@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <CADwmshKvqomcnYf-0SU2wAyT_OvJ4M+oKS9MbbrFQL43qARvbg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Stephanie,

I am pleased to hear that you reconsidered your resignation and that you
realize that the community supports you. So onward and forward.
Regards,

On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 11:59 AM Stephanie Perrin <
stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:

> After considerable thought, I am rescinding my resignation as Chair, based
> on the supportive messages I have received from a number of members and
> leaders in our group.  I still think I have to deal with a significant
> demonstration of a lack of confidence in my leadership, but I am going to
> work on that.  I will send a summary of the progress we made here in our
> meetings to the NCSG list, and I may mention that I was considering
> stepping down after our meeting Tuesday, just in case the rumour mill has
> caught up with me.
>
> I want to thank Raph for stepping forward to help and act as Interim
> leader, and I hope I can count on to help me with the job description for
> Chair.  We can also work on interim standards for behaviour on the list and
> in face to face meetings, whcih I will of course send to all ECs prior to
> send to the list.  It is clear that someone will have to stop disruptive
> behaviour and if the consensus is that it is the job of the Chair, then I
> shall tackle it, with reinforcement from the Ombudsman as necessary.
>
> Thank you for bearing with me during what has been a difficult time.  I
> look forward to your help and cooperation as we move forward to improve the
> functioning of our stakeholder group.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Stephanie Perrin
>
>
>

-- 

Joan Kerr, Entrepreneur, Artist, Humanitarian

_____________________________________

Chair, Climate Smart Victory Garden Team

Chair, ICANN, Not for Profit Operations Constituency

Chair, IEEE Sustainable Agriculture Working Group

Chair, Science for Peace, Climate Smart Victory Gardens

Advisor, IEEE Humanitarian Initiatives Committee

Advisor, Climate Smart Agriculture Youth Network, (CSAYN) Canada

UN WSIS Award Recipient, for Content & Creativity

Durham Region Recipient, Community Partnership Award

Founder, Foundation for Building Sustainable Communities

www.joankerr.ca, www.fbsc.org

Skype: joankerr_fbsc

1-416-907-0783
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Sat Nov  9 17:00:06 2019
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2019 15:00:06 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-EC] rescinding my resignation from the position of Chair
 of NCSG
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-pJzcCHaWf1Uw7zobwemkk7uo6_hAp_aANjJUYCYvu2xg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5ca4216b-768a-5149-dca8-9cc7f8998919@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAPZSw-pJzcCHaWf1Uw7zobwemkk7uo6_hAp_aANjJUYCYvu2xg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f26dc57a-0984-9ad6-6104-98af4125d35d@mail.utoronto.ca>

I think that is a great idea Raph, and I am working on a grid to evaluate issues.  I think it iwill take usa while to agree how to actually analyze an issue, what criteria to use (eg on occupying two positions:  fundamental fairness in encouraging all members to have an opportunity to participate, effective use of available ICANN travel support, conflict of interest between two constituencies/SG or ACs, etc)

There will be different criteria for different issues, hence the grid.  All criteria must map to agreed values.

Baby steps...

sigh

SP

On 2019-11-08 12:34, Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix wrote:
Hi Stephanie,

Thank you for your message. I am glad you were able to find the wider support among our leaders and members you were looking for.

I had prepared a short list with a few examples of verbal abuse that would not be tolerated on list, on call or in person anymore. I will circulate that on the EC list today so that we can move forward quickly with that. It is somewhat of a superficial matter compared to other problems we are facing, and it would not be meant to tackle the whole range of problematic behaviours we are faced with. But at the same time I think it is important to restore our membership's confidence in the mailing list as a pleasant environment for policy discussions.

As I have told you yesterday, I think that the solution lies more in regular small steps forward rather than long preparation for a single giant step.

Have a nice day,

Best,

On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 11:59 AM Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:

After considerable thought, I am rescinding my resignation as Chair, based on the supportive messages I have received from a number of members and leaders in our group.  I still think I have to deal with a significant demonstration of a lack of confidence in my leadership, but I am going to work on that.  I will send a summary of the progress we made here in our meetings to the NCSG list, and I may mention that I was considering stepping down after our meeting Tuesday, just in case the rumour mill has caught up with me.

I want to thank Raph for stepping forward to help and act as Interim leader, and I hope I can count on to help me with the job description for Chair.  We can also work on interim standards for behaviour on the list and in face to face meetings, whcih I will of course send to all ECs prior to send to the list.  It is clear that someone will have to stop disruptive behaviour and if the consensus is that it is the job of the Chair, then I shall tackle it, with reinforcement from the Ombudsman as necessary.

Thank you for bearing with me during what has been a difficult time.  I look forward to your help and cooperation as we move forward to improve the functioning of our stakeholder group.

Kind regards

Stephanie Perrin


_______________________________________________
NCSG-EC mailing list
NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
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From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Sat Nov  9 21:10:57 2019
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Rapha=C3=ABl_Beauregard=2DLacroix?=)
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2019 14:10:57 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Follow up discussion on list standards of behaviour
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-rozCCfUEj2WePrpk0eCcymVLhM_-5kgUKwL4aUPOkr4w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all

So here is what I could come up with.

As you have said Steph, I think at this point we need you to take a more
active role in policing. It's sad, it feels child-like, but I think it is
the unfortunate reality. I'm sure you aspire to do more interesting things
as a chair, but at the same time only the chair has the legitimacy to put
in place this kind of enforcement actions, I believe.

So would be unacceptable:

-Threats of taking certain matters to the ICANN ombudsman or some other
authority;

-Statements or implications which may be understood as reflecting
negatively on someone's honor, character, ethics or morality.

-- *Including* accusations that someone is engaging in violations of
various laws, charters, bylaws, procedures, etc.

I think the last one is useful to illustrate the necessity of context in
evaluating behaviour in light of those standards. A point of procedure, or
an honest question about the charter, can be raised without framing it as
an accusation. Conversely, it is easy to weaponize that into an accusation.

Also, this does not change anything in the right of ICANN community members
to take any matter they wish to the Ombudsman or report any form of
unacceptable behaviour to them, and to any relevant community leaders.

Sanction: withdraw posting privilege from list and involve ombudsman. I'm
not quite sure of modalities, like how long and at what point to involve
the ombudsman.

Anyhow let me know what you think.

And safe travels back home or anywhere else you may be going!

Have a nice day,
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From robin at ipjustice.org  Sat Nov  9 22:39:07 2019
From: robin at ipjustice.org (Robin Gross)
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2019 12:39:07 -0800
Subject: [NCSG-EC] rescinding my resignation from the position of Chair
 of NCSG
In-Reply-To: <5ca4216b-768a-5149-dca8-9cc7f8998919@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <5ca4216b-768a-5149-dca8-9cc7f8998919@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <A6C4B4FA-9C1B-43FD-8FFA-3290F0BACF51@ipjustice.org>

Dear Stephanie,

I?m so glad to hear that you will not resign after all, as your hard work and contributions are enormously appreciated by this EC and the members, even though sometimes it sure doesn?t feel like it.   Thank you for reconsidering your initial resignation.  

All best,
Robin

> On Nov 8, 2019, at 8:59 AM, Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
> 
> After considerable thought, I am rescinding my resignation as Chair, based on the supportive messages I have received from a number of members and leaders in our group.  I still think I have to deal with a significant demonstration of a lack of confidence in my leadership, but I am going to work on that.  I will send a summary of the progress we made here in our meetings to the NCSG list, and I may mention that I was considering stepping down after our meeting Tuesday, just in case the rumour mill has caught up with me.
> 
> I want to thank Raph for stepping forward to help and act as Interim leader, and I hope I can count on to help me with the job description for Chair.  We can also work on interim standards for behaviour on the list and in face to face meetings, whcih I will of course send to all ECs prior to send to the list.  It is clear that someone will have to stop disruptive behaviour and if the consensus is that it is the job of the Chair, then I shall tackle it, with reinforcement from the Ombudsman as necessary.
> 
> Thank you for bearing with me during what has been a difficult time.  I look forward to your help and cooperation as we move forward to improve the functioning of our stakeholder group.
> 
> Kind regards
> 
> Stephanie Perrin
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec

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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Sat Nov  9 22:59:36 2019
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2019 20:59:36 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Follow up discussion on list standards of behaviour
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-rozCCfUEj2WePrpk0eCcymVLhM_-5kgUKwL4aUPOkr4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPZSw-rozCCfUEj2WePrpk0eCcymVLhM_-5kgUKwL4aUPOkr4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <89cd753c-1433-6dd7-a4c0-d7fe22c362f2@mail.utoronto.ca>

It is a good list Raphael, but as I said in the meeting, it is going to be so hard to keep people from immediately saying that including this item is intended to criticize them. However, I think we are okay to go with this.

I am going to send a cheery good news wrap up of the ICANN 66, which I will vet to you guys.  I am going to comment on the meeting, that it was rather raucous and difficult for me to chair.  There was widespread reject of the concept of an ethics code, with the group favouring a list of issues insteand.  REcent disagreements surfaced at the meeting and the EC has decided that it might be fruitful, in order to make the meetings and the discussion list a more positive place to exchange views, to describe the kind of discourse that we think is unacceptable, and that the Chair will be empowered to act in future.

Then we fill out your list.  I will draft all this up.  Somehow we have to indicate that this covers named ad-hominem attacks, as well as those where innuendo might be logically inferred, regarding a particular individual.  Ok?

I still think I have the right to point out that only one EC member showed up for Bruna's meeting and that is unacceptable, without those members indicating they were slandered. The Chair is on thin ice here, I hope I have your support.

cheers Steph

On 2019-11-09 14:10, Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:
Hi all

So here is what I could come up with.

As you have said Steph, I think at this point we need you to take a more active role in policing. It's sad, it feels child-like, but I think it is the unfortunate reality. I'm sure you aspire to do more interesting things as a chair, but at the same time only the chair has the legitimacy to put in place this kind of enforcement actions, I believe.

So would be unacceptable:

-Threats of taking certain matters to the ICANN ombudsman or some other authority;

-Statements or implications which may be understood as reflecting negatively on someone's honor, character, ethics or morality.

-- *Including* accusations that someone is engaging in violations of various laws, charters, bylaws, procedures, etc.

I think the last one is useful to illustrate the necessity of context in evaluating behaviour in light of those standards. A point of procedure, or an honest question about the charter, can be raised without framing it as an accusation. Conversely, it is easy to weaponize that into an accusation.

Also, this does not change anything in the right of ICANN community members to take any matter they wish to the Ombudsman or report any form of unacceptable behaviour to them, and to any relevant community leaders.

Sanction: withdraw posting privilege from list and involve ombudsman. I'm not quite sure of modalities, like how long and at what point to involve the ombudsman.

Anyhow let me know what you think.

And safe travels back home or anywhere else you may be going!

Have a nice day,





_______________________________________________
NCSG-EC mailing list
NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec

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From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Sun Nov 10 00:05:26 2019
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Rapha=C3=ABl_Beauregard=2DLacroix?=)
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2019 17:05:26 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Follow up discussion on list standards of behaviour
In-Reply-To: <89cd753c-1433-6dd7-a4c0-d7fe22c362f2@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <CAPZSw-rozCCfUEj2WePrpk0eCcymVLhM_-5kgUKwL4aUPOkr4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <89cd753c-1433-6dd7-a4c0-d7fe22c362f2@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-q786zd1p-UC7XUMiY38zKMSq3B3nWpGLOHEoV4riXrcw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Steph

At this point any statement of any rules may by implication be related to
someone or a specific situation. I don't think we should let that come in
the way of stating said rules for the benefit or everyone. I think it could
be productive to include a statement to that effect, so to make your/our
intentions clear: if there is criticism to be expressed, it will be done in
private with the concerned persons, not on the list.

Also, I'm personally more inclined to give additional leeway to non-native
English speakers who may not be fully aware of the tone or implications or
certain words, formulations, and even small stuff like punctuation, etc.
The point is not to scare people from engaging on the list either.

And yes for "indirect" attacks too. This is what I meant in my list, but
feel free to pitch in to make it more clear.

By Bruna's meeting do you mean the NCUC-At Large? In any case, I think any
intervention has to be coordinated with Bruna *and* would be better done in
private. Please don't take this is a challenge to your leadership! I
understand your are appalled, and share your feelings. There are many
things to be appalled about at the moment... But as you said you are on
thin ice. NCSG is. I sincerely think you can achieve your discipline
objectives in private - your sanction power remains the same whether you
make it a public thing or not. And if you feel that your legitimacy is too
low, make it an NCSG EC thing. I think it's a better idea to keep all
grievances - including yours and ours - off the list. You are right it
would not be slander, but it can be interpreted exactly as what we do not
want on the list, that is implications (albeit indirect) of
unethical/"against the Charter" behaviour.

Please do share your text, I'll be glad to provide comments and edits as
the case may be.

Have a nice evening,

On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 3:59 PM Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <
ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:

> It is a good list Raphael, but as I said in the meeting, it is going to be
> so hard to keep people from immediately saying that including this item is
> intended to criticize them. However, I think we are okay to go with this.
>
> I am going to send a cheery good news wrap up of the ICANN 66, which I
> will vet to you guys.  I am going to comment on the meeting, that it was
> rather raucous and difficult for me to chair.  There was widespread reject
> of the concept of an ethics code, with the group favouring a list of issues
> insteand.  REcent disagreements surfaced at the meeting and the EC has
> decided that it might be fruitful, in order to make the meetings and the
> discussion list a more positive place to exchange views, to describe the
> kind of discourse that we think is unacceptable, and that the Chair will be
> empowered to act in future.
>
> Then we fill out your list.  I will draft all this up.  Somehow we have to
> indicate that this covers named ad-hominem attacks, as well as those where
> innuendo might be logically inferred, regarding a particular individual.
> Ok?
>
> I still think I have the right to point out that only one EC member showed
> up for Bruna's meeting and that is unacceptable, without those members
> indicating they were slandered. The Chair is on thin ice here, I hope I
> have your support.
>
> cheers Steph
> On 2019-11-09 14:10, Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> So here is what I could come up with.
>
> As you have said Steph, I think at this point we need you to take a more
> active role in policing. It's sad, it feels child-like, but I think it is
> the unfortunate reality. I'm sure you aspire to do more interesting things
> as a chair, but at the same time only the chair has the legitimacy to put
> in place this kind of enforcement actions, I believe.
>
> So would be unacceptable:
>
> -Threats of taking certain matters to the ICANN ombudsman or some other
> authority;
>
> -Statements or implications which may be understood as reflecting
> negatively on someone's honor, character, ethics or morality.
>
> -- *Including* accusations that someone is engaging in violations of
> various laws, charters, bylaws, procedures, etc.
>
> I think the last one is useful to illustrate the necessity of context in
> evaluating behaviour in light of those standards. A point of procedure, or
> an honest question about the charter, can be raised without framing it as
> an accusation. Conversely, it is easy to weaponize that into an accusation.
>
> Also, this does not change anything in the right of ICANN community
> members to take any matter they wish to the Ombudsman or report any form of
> unacceptable behaviour to them, and to any relevant community leaders.
>
> Sanction: withdraw posting privilege from list and involve ombudsman. I'm
> not quite sure of modalities, like how long and at what point to involve
> the ombudsman.
>
> Anyhow let me know what you think.
>
> And safe travels back home or anywhere else you may be going!
>
> Have a nice day,
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing listNCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.ishttps://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Sun Nov 10 08:36:29 2019
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (U Of T)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2019 01:36:29 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-EC] rescinding my resignation from the position of Chair
 of NCSG
In-Reply-To: <A6C4B4FA-9C1B-43FD-8FFA-3290F0BACF51@ipjustice.org>
References: <A6C4B4FA-9C1B-43FD-8FFA-3290F0BACF51@ipjustice.org>
Message-ID: <DB89E8C5-226E-4125-B48D-4BD7D391E159@mail.utoronto.ca>

Thanks Robin!  I can?t say I am doing cartwheels with enthusiasm just yet, but enough of the new, quiet folks talked to me that I felt a pretty strong sense of duty to keep going, 
Cheers steph 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 9, 2019, at 15:39, Robin Gross <robin at ipjustice.org> wrote:
> 
> ? Dear Stephanie,
> 
> I?m so glad to hear that you will not resign after all, as your hard work and contributions are enormously appreciated by this EC and the members, even though sometimes it sure doesn?t feel like it.   Thank you for reconsidering your initial resignation.  
> 
> All best,
> Robin
> 
>> On Nov 8, 2019, at 8:59 AM, Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>> 
>> After considerable thought, I am rescinding my resignation as Chair, based on the supportive messages I have received from a number of members and leaders in our group.  I still think I have to deal with a significant demonstration of a lack of confidence in my leadership, but I am going to work on that.  I will send a summary of the progress we made here in our meetings to the NCSG list, and I may mention that I was considering stepping down after our meeting Tuesday, just in case the rumour mill has caught up with me.
>> 
>> I want to thank Raph for stepping forward to help and act as Interim leader, and I hope I can count on to help me with the job description for Chair.  We can also work on interim standards for behaviour on the list and in face to face meetings, whcih I will of course send to all ECs prior to send to the list.  It is clear that someone will have to stop disruptive behaviour and if the consensus is that it is the job of the Chair, then I shall tackle it, with reinforcement from the Ombudsman as necessary.
>> 
>> Thank you for bearing with me during what has been a difficult time.  I look forward to your help and cooperation as we move forward to improve the functioning of our stakeholder group.
>> 
>> Kind regards
>> 
>> Stephanie Perrin
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
> 
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Sun Nov 10 23:45:50 2019
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (U Of T)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2019 16:45:50 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Follow up discussion on list standards of behaviour
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-q786zd1p-UC7XUMiY38zKMSq3B3nWpGLOHEoV4riXrcw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPZSw-q786zd1p-UC7XUMiY38zKMSq3B3nWpGLOHEoV4riXrcw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D2F63D87-626C-487A-B958-45037AD7CF87@mail.utoronto.ca>

Thanks Raph, great advice as usual!!  I will leave that mess to Bruna.  
Cheers so

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 9, 2019, at 17:05, Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Hi Steph
> 
> At this point any statement of any rules may by implication be related to someone or a specific situation. I don't think we should let that come in the way of stating said rules for the benefit or everyone. I think it could be productive to include a statement to that effect, so to make your/our intentions clear: if there is criticism to be expressed, it will be done in private with the concerned persons, not on the list.
> 
> Also, I'm personally more inclined to give additional leeway to non-native English speakers who may not be fully aware of the tone or implications or certain words, formulations, and even small stuff like punctuation, etc. The point is not to scare people from engaging on the list either.
> 
> And yes for "indirect" attacks too. This is what I meant in my list, but feel free to pitch in to make it more clear.
> 
> By Bruna's meeting do you mean the NCUC-At Large? In any case, I think any intervention has to be coordinated with Bruna *and* would be better done in private. Please don't take this is a challenge to your leadership! I understand your are appalled, and share your feelings. There are many things to be appalled about at the moment... But as you said you are on thin ice. NCSG is. I sincerely think you can achieve your discipline objectives in private - your sanction power remains the same whether you make it a public thing or not. And if you feel that your legitimacy is too low, make it an NCSG EC thing. I think it's a better idea to keep all grievances - including yours and ours - off the list. You are right it would not be slander, but it can be interpreted exactly as what we do not want on the list, that is implications (albeit indirect) of unethical/"against the Charter" behaviour. 
> 
> Please do share your text, I'll be glad to provide comments and edits as the case may be.
> 
> Have a nice evening,
> 
>> On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 3:59 PM Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>> It is a good list Raphael, but as I said in the meeting, it is going to be so hard to keep people from immediately saying that including this item is intended to criticize them. However, I think we are okay to go with this.
>> 
>> I am going to send a cheery good news wrap up of the ICANN 66, which I will vet to you guys.  I am going to comment on the meeting, that it was rather raucous and difficult for me to chair.  There was widespread reject of the concept of an ethics code, with the group favouring a list of issues insteand.  REcent disagreements surfaced at the meeting and the EC has decided that it might be fruitful, in order to make the meetings and the discussion list a more positive place to exchange views, to describe the kind of discourse that we think is unacceptable, and that the Chair will be empowered to act in future.  
>> 
>> Then we fill out your list.  I will draft all this up.  Somehow we have to indicate that this covers named ad-hominem attacks, as well as those where innuendo might be logically inferred, regarding a particular individual.  Ok?
>> 
>> I still think I have the right to point out that only one EC member showed up for Bruna's meeting and that is unacceptable, without those members indicating they were slandered. The Chair is on thin ice here, I hope I have your support.
>> 
>> cheers Steph
>> 
>>> On 2019-11-09 14:10, Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:
>>> Hi all
>>> 
>>> So here is what I could come up with.
>>> 
>>> As you have said Steph, I think at this point we need you to take a more active role in policing. It's sad, it feels child-like, but I think it is the unfortunate reality. I'm sure you aspire to do more interesting things as a chair, but at the same time only the chair has the legitimacy to put in place this kind of enforcement actions, I believe.
>>> 
>>> So would be unacceptable:
>>> 
>>> -Threats of taking certain matters to the ICANN ombudsman or some other authority;
>>> 
>>> -Statements or implications which may be understood as reflecting negatively on someone's honor, character, ethics or morality.
>>> 
>>> -- *Including* accusations that someone is engaging in violations of various laws, charters, bylaws, procedures, etc.
>>> 
>>> I think the last one is useful to illustrate the necessity of context in evaluating behaviour in light of those standards. A point of procedure, or an honest question about the charter, can be raised without framing it as an accusation. Conversely, it is easy to weaponize that into an accusation.
>>> 
>>> Also, this does not change anything in the right of ICANN community members to take any matter they wish to the Ombudsman or report any form of unacceptable behaviour to them, and to any relevant community leaders.
>>> 
>>> Sanction: withdraw posting privilege from list and involve ombudsman. I'm not quite sure of modalities, like how long and at what point to involve the ombudsman.
>>> 
>>> Anyhow let me know what you think. 
>>> 
>>> And safe travels back home or anywhere else you may be going! 
>>> 
>>> Have a nice day,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
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From bruna.mrtns at gmail.com  Mon Nov 11 13:46:16 2019
From: bruna.mrtns at gmail.com (Bruna Martins dos Santos)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2019 08:46:16 -0300
Subject: [NCSG-EC] rescinding my resignation from the position of Chair
 of NCSG
In-Reply-To: <DB89E8C5-226E-4125-B48D-4BD7D391E159@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <A6C4B4FA-9C1B-43FD-8FFA-3290F0BACF51@ipjustice.org>
 <DB89E8C5-226E-4125-B48D-4BD7D391E159@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <CADAEEV0pk7n-+usmGkWd=c_iBdL_Ze78Qx=DXN2dYob+F-EEMg@mail.gmail.com>

Took a little break from the emails during the weekend, but wanted to put
it here for the record that I am thrilled that you decided not to continue
with your resignation, Steph! That might make Raph the interim chair for
the shortest period of time at icann, but its definitely for a good cause.

Lets keep on doing the good work and avoiding the fuss, at the meeting we
did meet some consensus around collecting the issues that would be present
at the 'ethics policy' (or whatever is the name it will end up with), so
lets move on with it ;)



Le dim. 10 nov. 2019 ? 03:36, U Of T <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> a
?crit :

> Thanks Robin!  I can?t say I am doing cartwheels with enthusiasm just yet,
> but enough of the new, quiet folks talked to me that I felt a pretty strong
> sense of duty to keep going,
> Cheers steph
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 9, 2019, at 15:39, Robin Gross <robin at ipjustice.org> wrote:
>
> ? Dear Stephanie,
>
> I?m so glad to hear that you will not resign after all, as your hard work
> and contributions are enormously appreciated by this EC and the members,
> even though sometimes it sure doesn?t feel like it.   Thank you for
> reconsidering your initial resignation.
>
> All best,
> Robin
>
> On Nov 8, 2019, at 8:59 AM, Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <
> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>
> After considerable thought, I am rescinding my resignation as Chair, based
> on the supportive messages I have received from a number of members and
> leaders in our group.  I still think I have to deal with a significant
> demonstration of a lack of confidence in my leadership, but I am going to
> work on that.  I will send a summary of the progress we made here in our
> meetings to the NCSG list, and I may mention that I was considering
> stepping down after our meeting Tuesday, just in case the rumour mill has
> caught up with me.
>
> I want to thank Raph for stepping forward to help and act as Interim
> leader, and I hope I can count on to help me with the job description for
> Chair.  We can also work on interim standards for behaviour on the list and
> in face to face meetings, whcih I will of course send to all ECs prior to
> send to the list.  It is clear that someone will have to stop disruptive
> behaviour and if the consensus is that it is the job of the Chair, then I
> shall tackle it, with reinforcement from the Ombudsman as necessary.
>
> Thank you for bearing with me during what has been a difficult time.  I
> look forward to your help and cooperation as we move forward to improve the
> functioning of our stakeholder group.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Stephanie Perrin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
>
>

-- 
*Bruna Martins dos Santos *

Skype ID: bruna.martinsantos
@boomartins
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Tue Nov 12 16:22:01 2019
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (U Of T)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2019 09:22:01 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Fwd: new NPOC representative is a Facebook employee
References: <QrMaaev8mY7C8_TZPrK4AmugOfoABscaCo8L2hN_FbX_WN2f0N-vNv9CjNufVI5qleoyOJP55fBX1C4tpOxuMGF9NBbWlBPXodzii6nvix4=@ferdeline.com>
Message-ID: <0B445F44-FA2F-47B4-A43B-8810D641F586@mail.utoronto.ca>


I think we need to review this person?s status if indeed they are on the board, do we not?
Cheers Steph
Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Ayden F?rdeline <ayden at ferdeline.com>
> Date: November 12, 2019 at 09:02:28 EST
> To: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA>
> Subject: new NPOC representative is a Facebook employee
> Reply-To: Ayden F?rdeline <ayden at ferdeline.com>
> 
> ?
> Dear Stephanie,
> 
> I was reviewing the NPOC mailing list, and noticed that the Arab World Internet Institute has recently updated its representative (see this post).
> 
> Their new representative is Khaled Koubaa, whose title on LinkedIn is "Public Policy Lead - North Africa" at Facebook (in addition to being an ICANN board member).
> 
> Just thought I'd flag this...
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Ayden
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From jumaropi at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 12 16:32:22 2019
From: jumaropi at yahoo.com (Juan Manuel Rojas)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2019 14:32:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Fwd: new NPOC representative is a Facebook employee
In-Reply-To: <0B445F44-FA2F-47B4-A43B-8810D641F586@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <QrMaaev8mY7C8_TZPrK4AmugOfoABscaCo8L2hN_FbX_WN2f0N-vNv9CjNufVI5qleoyOJP55fBX1C4tpOxuMGF9NBbWlBPXodzii6nvix4=@ferdeline.com>
 <0B445F44-FA2F-47B4-A43B-8810D641F586@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <95842312.2019447.1573569142428@mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks Stephanie for these red flags!?
I'm checking now the Khaled information. According to my preliminary review he is not anymore as ICANN Board, he already ended his term. It seems that Facebook position is recent, but he was also founder of Arabic World Internet Institute.?

Best Regards,

JUAN MANUEL ROJAS P.
Presidente?-?AGEIA DENSI?ColombiaMembership Committee Chair.?Non-for-Profit Operational Concerns Constituency (NPOC) - ICANNCluster Orinoco TIC memberMaster IT candidate, Universidad de los Andes
Cel. +57 3017435600
Twitter:?@JmanuRojas





? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 

    El martes, 12 de noviembre de 2019 09:22:19 a.?m. GMT-5, U Of T via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> escribi?:  
 
 
I think we need to review this person?s status if indeed they are on the board, do we not?Cheers Steph
Sent from my iPhone
Begin forwarded message:


From: Ayden F?rdeline <ayden at ferdeline.com>
Date: November 12, 2019 at 09:02:28 EST
To: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject: new NPOC representative is a Facebook employee
Reply-To: Ayden F?rdeline <ayden at ferdeline.com>



?Dear Stephanie,

I was reviewing the NPOC mailing list, and noticed that the Arab World Internet Institute has recently updated its representative (see this post).

Their new representative is Khaled Koubaa, whose title on LinkedIn is "Public Policy Lead - North Africa" at Facebook (in addition to being an ICANN board member).

Just thought I'd flag this...

Best wishes,

Ayden

_______________________________________________
NCSG-EC mailing list
NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
  
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From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Tue Nov 12 20:55:35 2019
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Rapha=C3=ABl_Beauregard=2DLacroix?=)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2019 13:55:35 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Fwd: new NPOC representative is a Facebook employee
In-Reply-To: <95842312.2019447.1573569142428@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <QrMaaev8mY7C8_TZPrK4AmugOfoABscaCo8L2hN_FbX_WN2f0N-vNv9CjNufVI5qleoyOJP55fBX1C4tpOxuMGF9NBbWlBPXodzii6nvix4=@ferdeline.com>
 <0B445F44-FA2F-47B4-A43B-8810D641F586@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <95842312.2019447.1573569142428@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-rbtXq25bhUQzH=wwi+rKRdBZqzQ_r_KedSYwqOjWmGtQ@mail.gmail.com>

Yes his term on the board literally just ended.

As for his facebook position, Im not quite sure how that works for
organizational reps. That would sure raise some issues if he were to apply
as a NCUC individual member.

I'll let others chime in on that :)

Best,

On Tue, Nov 12, 2019 at 9:32 AM Juan Manuel Rojas via NCSG-EC <
ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:

> Thanks Stephanie for these red flags!
> I'm checking now the Khaled information. According to my preliminary
> review he is not anymore as ICANN Board, he already ended his term. It
> seems that Facebook position is recent, but he was also founder of Arabic
> World Internet Institute.
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> JUAN MANUEL ROJAS P.
> Presidente - AGEIA DENSI Colombia
> Membership Committee Chair. Non-for-Profit Operational Concerns
> Constituency (NPOC) - ICANN
> Cluster Orinoco TIC member
> Master IT candidate, Universidad de los Andes
>
> Cel. +57 3017435600
> Twitter: @JmanuRojas <http://www.twitter.com/jmanurojas>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> El martes, 12 de noviembre de 2019 09:22:19 a. m. GMT-5, U Of T via
> NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> escribi?:
>
>
>
> I think we need to review this person?s status if indeed they are on the
> board, do we not?
> Cheers Steph
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> *From:* Ayden F?rdeline <ayden at ferdeline.com>
> *Date:* November 12, 2019 at 09:02:28 EST
> *To:* Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA>
> *Subject:* *new NPOC representative is a Facebook employee*
> *Reply-To:* Ayden F?rdeline <ayden at ferdeline.com>
>
> ?
> Dear Stephanie,
>
> I was reviewing the NPOC mailing list, and noticed that the Arab World
> Internet Institute has recently updated its representative (see this post
> <https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/npoc-ec/2019-November/000369.html>).
>
> Their new representative is Khaled Koubaa, whose title on LinkedIn is
> "Public Policy Lead - North Africa" at Facebook (in addition to being an
> ICANN board member).
>
> Just thought I'd flag this...
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Ayden
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
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From plommer at gmail.com  Wed Nov 13 12:30:29 2019
From: plommer at gmail.com (Raoul Plommer)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2019 12:30:29 +0200
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Fwd: new NPOC representative is a Facebook employee
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-rbtXq25bhUQzH=wwi+rKRdBZqzQ_r_KedSYwqOjWmGtQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <QrMaaev8mY7C8_TZPrK4AmugOfoABscaCo8L2hN_FbX_WN2f0N-vNv9CjNufVI5qleoyOJP55fBX1C4tpOxuMGF9NBbWlBPXodzii6nvix4=@ferdeline.com>
 <0B445F44-FA2F-47B4-A43B-8810D641F586@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <95842312.2019447.1573569142428@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CAPZSw-rbtXq25bhUQzH=wwi+rKRdBZqzQ_r_KedSYwqOjWmGtQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADirp9R4UYdy-_CbqTOpwqYcSVmGFHAn56mFXFRruhRKVuf+Jw@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, was it Facebook or Google, it matters little here. This might be a
fairly important precedent in NCSG's future. Even if his employer is in
another SG, we need to make sure he doesn't work for them at ICANN. This is
fairly impossible to know, but we already have other members with a similar
status, within the NCSG.

-Raoul

On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 at 20:55, Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC <
ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:

> Yes his term on the board literally just ended.
>
> As for his facebook position, Im not quite sure how that works for
> organizational reps. That would sure raise some issues if he were to apply
> as a NCUC individual member.
>
> I'll let others chime in on that :)
>
> Best,
>
> On Tue, Nov 12, 2019 at 9:32 AM Juan Manuel Rojas via NCSG-EC <
> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Stephanie for these red flags!
>> I'm checking now the Khaled information. According to my preliminary
>> review he is not anymore as ICANN Board, he already ended his term. It
>> seems that Facebook position is recent, but he was also founder of Arabic
>> World Internet Institute.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>>
>> JUAN MANUEL ROJAS P.
>> Presidente - AGEIA DENSI Colombia
>> Membership Committee Chair. Non-for-Profit Operational Concerns
>> Constituency (NPOC) - ICANN
>> Cluster Orinoco TIC member
>> Master IT candidate, Universidad de los Andes
>>
>> Cel. +57 3017435600
>> Twitter: @JmanuRojas <http://www.twitter.com/jmanurojas>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> El martes, 12 de noviembre de 2019 09:22:19 a. m. GMT-5, U Of T via
>> NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> escribi?:
>>
>>
>>
>> I think we need to review this person?s status if indeed they are on the
>> board, do we not?
>> Cheers Steph
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>> *From:* Ayden F?rdeline <ayden at ferdeline.com>
>> *Date:* November 12, 2019 at 09:02:28 EST
>> *To:* Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA>
>> *Subject:* *new NPOC representative is a Facebook employee*
>> *Reply-To:* Ayden F?rdeline <ayden at ferdeline.com>
>>
>> ?
>> Dear Stephanie,
>>
>> I was reviewing the NPOC mailing list, and noticed that the Arab World
>> Internet Institute has recently updated its representative (see this post
>> <https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/npoc-ec/2019-November/000369.html>).
>>
>> Their new representative is Khaled Koubaa, whose title on LinkedIn is
>> "Public Policy Lead - North Africa" at Facebook (in addition to being an
>> ICANN board member).
>>
>> Just thought I'd flag this...
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Ayden
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Thu Nov 14 01:09:46 2019
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (U Of T)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2019 18:09:46 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Fwd: [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised
 representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia
References: <122A287E-8E9F-46B6-8E56-52E7F815223E@icann.org>
Message-ID: <EBB7127B-F73A-40BB-907F-BDC3EBAC5690@mail.utoronto.ca>

I will reach out to her and explain how our membership system works.  If you all agree, I will notify David immediately that he has to change his membership status in NCSG to individual.  I guess that means dropping out of NPOC?
Cheers Stephanie

Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>
> Date: November 13, 2019 at 16:43:35 EST
> To: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA>
> Subject: FW:  [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia
> 
> ?
> Hi Stephanie,
> FYI?
>  
> Many thanks,
> -- 
>  
> Maryam Bakoshi | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator 
> ICANN | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers 
> S: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | T: +44 7846 471777
>  
>  
> From: Lyndsey Jackson EFA Chair <chair at efa.org.au>
> Date: Tuesday, 12 November 2019 at 04:58
> To: Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>
> Cc: Peter Tonoli <peter at metaverse.org>
> Subject: [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia
>  
> Dear Maryam Bakoshi,
>  
> I have been contacted by a participant at ICANN in regards to a complaint made against David Cake. While I do not wish to make any judgement on the complaint of the process, one thing that is very concerning is that this person is under the impression that David Cake has been participating on behalf of Electronic Frontiers Australia as a representative to the Not-for-Profit Operational Concerns Constituency of ICANN.
>  
> David Cake in no way has authority from the EFA board to do this. David was not renominated for the board in 2017. In 2018 he was renominated, however shortly after the board unanimously voted to remove him. He does not have any board approval to represent the organisation, he has not advised the board of any involvement, and has not reported back to the board at all. He has not been the Chair of EFA for the past two years, I have. David is still involved in the EFA policy committee, however he holds no position or authorisation, and his involvement over the past two years has been marginal. 
>  
> I have emailed David to ask him to clarify and confirm that he is not participating in ICANN as a representative of EFA. If he is, it would be a breach of the organisations rules. I have also asked that he emails you to ask that this page be updated as a priority to remove the line about David being the EFA chair https://npoc.org/leadership/ [npoc.org] - I do expect him to do this, however would like this updated as a matter of priority regardless. 
>  
> I would also request that if there are any other materials, online profiles, or places where his representation of EFA is stated that that too be updated with the EFA reference removed. 
>  
> I realise post ICANN it's probably a busy time for you, but when appropriate I would very much value you being in touch to advise on how EFA can continue appropriate representation in ICANN going forward. 
>  
> Many thanks, 
>  
> Lyndsey
>  
>  
> Peter Tonoli EFA Vice Chair cc'd into correspondence 
> -- 
>   Lyndsey Jackson | Chair
>   Electronic Frontiers Australia
>   chair at efa.org.au
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From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Thu Nov 14 01:18:00 2019
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Rapha=C3=ABl_Beauregard=2DLacroix?=)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2019 18:18:00 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Fwd: [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised
 representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia
In-Reply-To: <EBB7127B-F73A-40BB-907F-BDC3EBAC5690@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <122A287E-8E9F-46B6-8E56-52E7F815223E@icann.org>
 <EBB7127B-F73A-40BB-907F-BDC3EBAC5690@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-om+EPUPxaRMYyEO0BT3TWf1Ji-wsmtibJybbzvO3tHxQ@mail.gmail.com>

Can't access members.ncsg.is just now and I am not informed of who he
claims/ed to represent, but if he indeed does not represent any
organization then he must be an individual member, with whatever ensues on
the side of NPOC.

So yes do contact him.

Best,

On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 6:09 PM U Of T via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>
wrote:

> I will reach out to her and explain how our membership system works.  If
> you all agree, I will notify David immediately that he has to change his
> membership status in NCSG to individual.  I guess that means dropping out
> of NPOC?
> Cheers Stephanie
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> *From:* Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>
> *Date:* November 13, 2019 at 16:43:35 EST
> *To:* Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA>
> *Subject:* *FW:  [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised
> representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia*
>
> ?
>
> Hi Stephanie,
>
> FYI?
>
>
>
> Many thanks,
>
> --
>
>
>
> *Maryam Bakoshi* | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
>
> *ICANN* | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
>
> *S*: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | *T*: +44 7846 471777
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Lyndsey Jackson EFA Chair <chair at efa.org.au>
> *Date: *Tuesday, 12 November 2019 at 04:58
> *To: *Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>
> *Cc: *Peter Tonoli <peter at metaverse.org>
> *Subject: *[Ext] David Cake is not an authorised
> representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia
>
>
>
> Dear Maryam Bakoshi,
>
>
>
> I have been contacted by a participant at ICANN in regards to a complaint
> made against David Cake. While I do not wish to make any judgement on the
> complaint of the process, one thing that is very concerning is that this
> person is under the impression that David Cake has been participating on
> behalf of Electronic Frontiers Australia as a representative to the
> Not-for-Profit Operational Concerns Constituency of ICANN.
>
>
>
> David Cake in no way has authority from the EFA board to do this. David
> was not renominated for the board in 2017. In 2018 he was renominated,
> however shortly after the board unanimously voted to remove him. He does
> not have any board approval to represent the organisation, he has not
> advised the board of any involvement, and has not reported back to the
> board at all. He has not been the Chair of EFA for the past two years, I
> have. David is still involved in the EFA policy committee, however he holds
> no position or authorisation, and his involvement over the past two years
> has been marginal.
>
>
>
> I have emailed David to ask him to clarify and confirm that he is not
> participating in ICANN as a representative of EFA. If he is, it would be a
> breach of the organisations rules. I have also asked that he emails you to
> ask that this page be updated as a priority to remove the line about David
> being the EFA chair https://npoc.org/leadership/ [npoc.org]
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__npoc.org_leadership_&d=DwMFAg&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=ffh87nniKwre858txaLC_xzlo3-mMLc56UX_BYV5_t8&s=D0h6EhNXmHAmX9WSK0laGwEoUsZYkSeW-7yaY_W0vDA&e=> -
> I do expect him to do this, however would like this updated as a matter of
> priority regardless.
>
>
>
> I would also request that if there are any other materials, online
> profiles, or places where his representation of EFA is stated that that too
> be updated with the EFA reference removed.
>
>
>
> I realise post ICANN it's probably a busy time for you, but when
> appropriate I would very much value you being in touch to advise on how EFA
> can continue appropriate representation in ICANN going forward.
>
>
>
> Many thanks,
>
>
>
> Lyndsey
>
>
>
>
>
> Peter Tonoli EFA Vice Chair cc'd into correspondence
>
> --
>
>   Lyndsey Jackson | Chair
>
>   Electronic Frontiers Australia
>
>   chair at efa.org.au
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
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From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Thu Nov 14 01:20:08 2019
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Rapha=C3=ABl_Beauregard=2DLacroix?=)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2019 18:20:08 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Fwd: [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised
 representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-om+EPUPxaRMYyEO0BT3TWf1Ji-wsmtibJybbzvO3tHxQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <122A287E-8E9F-46B6-8E56-52E7F815223E@icann.org>
 <EBB7127B-F73A-40BB-907F-BDC3EBAC5690@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAPZSw-om+EPUPxaRMYyEO0BT3TWf1Ji-wsmtibJybbzvO3tHxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-qZuGZzuqn4AD+B7-1n8mQd=8dAOQL7Q21ydKTiSn81Cg@mail.gmail.com>

Ok yes so he is indeed listed as representative of EFA as well as an
"employee" of that organization.

I think it would be important to know whether anyone represents EFA at this
point as far as NPOC is concerned however; otherwise we'll have a
technically inactive org.

Best,

On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 6:18 PM Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix <
rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:

> Can't access members.ncsg.is just now and I am not informed of who he
> claims/ed to represent, but if he indeed does not represent any
> organization then he must be an individual member, with whatever ensues on
> the side of NPOC.
>
> So yes do contact him.
>
> Best,
>
> On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 6:09 PM U Of T via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>
> wrote:
>
>> I will reach out to her and explain how our membership system works.  If
>> you all agree, I will notify David immediately that he has to change his
>> membership status in NCSG to individual.  I guess that means dropping out
>> of NPOC?
>> Cheers Stephanie
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>> *From:* Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>
>> *Date:* November 13, 2019 at 16:43:35 EST
>> *To:* Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA>
>> *Subject:* *FW:  [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised
>> representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia*
>>
>> ?
>>
>> Hi Stephanie,
>>
>> FYI?
>>
>>
>>
>> Many thanks,
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> *Maryam Bakoshi* | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
>>
>> *ICANN* | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
>>
>> *S*: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | *T*: +44 7846 471777
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Lyndsey Jackson EFA Chair <chair at efa.org.au>
>> *Date: *Tuesday, 12 November 2019 at 04:58
>> *To: *Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>
>> *Cc: *Peter Tonoli <peter at metaverse.org>
>> *Subject: *[Ext] David Cake is not an authorised
>> representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Maryam Bakoshi,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have been contacted by a participant at ICANN in regards to a complaint
>> made against David Cake. While I do not wish to make any judgement on the
>> complaint of the process, one thing that is very concerning is that this
>> person is under the impression that David Cake has been participating on
>> behalf of Electronic Frontiers Australia as a representative to the
>> Not-for-Profit Operational Concerns Constituency of ICANN.
>>
>>
>>
>> David Cake in no way has authority from the EFA board to do this. David
>> was not renominated for the board in 2017. In 2018 he was renominated,
>> however shortly after the board unanimously voted to remove him. He does
>> not have any board approval to represent the organisation, he has not
>> advised the board of any involvement, and has not reported back to the
>> board at all. He has not been the Chair of EFA for the past two years, I
>> have. David is still involved in the EFA policy committee, however he holds
>> no position or authorisation, and his involvement over the past two years
>> has been marginal.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have emailed David to ask him to clarify and confirm that he is not
>> participating in ICANN as a representative of EFA. If he is, it would be a
>> breach of the organisations rules. I have also asked that he emails you to
>> ask that this page be updated as a priority to remove the line about David
>> being the EFA chair https://npoc.org/leadership/ [npoc.org]
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__npoc.org_leadership_&d=DwMFAg&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=ffh87nniKwre858txaLC_xzlo3-mMLc56UX_BYV5_t8&s=D0h6EhNXmHAmX9WSK0laGwEoUsZYkSeW-7yaY_W0vDA&e=> -
>> I do expect him to do this, however would like this updated as a matter of
>> priority regardless.
>>
>>
>>
>> I would also request that if there are any other materials, online
>> profiles, or places where his representation of EFA is stated that that too
>> be updated with the EFA reference removed.
>>
>>
>>
>> I realise post ICANN it's probably a busy time for you, but when
>> appropriate I would very much value you being in touch to advise on how EFA
>> can continue appropriate representation in ICANN going forward.
>>
>>
>>
>> Many thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> Lyndsey
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Peter Tonoli EFA Vice Chair cc'd into correspondence
>>
>> --
>>
>>   Lyndsey Jackson | Chair
>>
>>   Electronic Frontiers Australia
>>
>>   chair at efa.org.au
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>
>
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From jumaropi at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 14 16:19:08 2019
From: jumaropi at yahoo.com (Juan Manuel Rojas)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2019 14:19:08 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Fwd: [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised
 representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-qZuGZzuqn4AD+B7-1n8mQd=8dAOQL7Q21ydKTiSn81Cg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <122A287E-8E9F-46B6-8E56-52E7F815223E@icann.org>
 <EBB7127B-F73A-40BB-907F-BDC3EBAC5690@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAPZSw-om+EPUPxaRMYyEO0BT3TWf1Ji-wsmtibJybbzvO3tHxQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPZSw-qZuGZzuqn4AD+B7-1n8mQd=8dAOQL7Q21ydKTiSn81Cg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1058229766.200903.1573741148222@mail.yahoo.com>

Hi all,?As NPOC Membership Chair I will ask her give us a name to change of their representative in our Constituency.??
JUAN MANUEL ROJAS P.
Presidente?-?AGEIA DENSI?ColombiaMembership Committee Chair.?Non-for-Profit Operational Concerns Constituency (NPOC) - ICANNCluster Orinoco TIC memberMaster IT candidate, Universidad de los Andes
Cel. +57 3017435600
Twitter:?@JmanuRojas





? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 

    El mi?rcoles, 13 de noviembre de 2019 06:20:26 p.?m. GMT-5, Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> escribi?:  
 
 Ok yes so he is indeed listed as representative of EFA as well as an "employee" of that organization.
I think it would be important to know whether anyone represents EFA at this point as far as NPOC is concerned however; otherwise we'll have a technically inactive org.?
Best,
On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 6:18 PM Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:

Can't access members.ncsg.is just now and I am not informed of who he claims/ed to represent, but if he indeed does not represent any organization then he must be an individual member, with whatever ensues on the side of NPOC.
So yes do contact him.

Best,?
On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 6:09 PM U Of T via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:

I will reach out to her and explain how our membership system works.? If you all agree, I will notify David immediately that he has to change his membership status in NCSG to individual.? I guess that means dropping out of NPOC?Cheers Stephanie

Sent from my iPhone
Begin forwarded message:


From: Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>
Date: November 13, 2019 at 16:43:35 EST
To: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject: FW:? [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia



?
Hi Stephanie,

FYI?

?

Many thanks,

--?

?

Maryam Bakoshi?| SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator?

ICANN?| Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers?

S: Maryam.bakoshi.icann |?T:?+44 7846 471777

?

?

From: Lyndsey Jackson EFA Chair <chair at efa.org.au>
Date: Tuesday, 12 November 2019 at 04:58
To: Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>
Cc: Peter Tonoli <peter at metaverse.org>
Subject: [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia

?

Dear Maryam Bakoshi,

?

I have been contacted by a participant at ICANN in regards to a complaint made against David Cake. While I do not wish to make any judgement on the complaint of the process, one thing that is very concerning is that this person is under the impression that David Cake has been participating on behalf of Electronic Frontiers Australia as a representative to the Not-for-Profit Operational Concerns Constituency of ICANN.

?

David Cake in no way has authority from the EFA board to do this. David was not renominated for the board in 2017. In 2018 he was renominated, however shortly after the board unanimously voted to remove him. He does not have any board approval to represent the organisation, he has not advised the board of any involvement, and has not reported back to the board at all. He has not been the Chair of EFA for the past two years, I have. David is still involved in the EFA policy committee, however he holds no position or authorisation, and his involvement over the past two years has been marginal.?

?

I have emailed David to ask him to clarify and confirm that he is not participating in ICANN as a representative of EFA. If he is, it would be a breach of the organisations rules. I have also asked that he emails you to ask that this page be updated as a priority to remove the line about David being the EFA chair?https://npoc.org/leadership/ [npoc.org]?- I do expect him to do this, however would like this updated as a matter of priority regardless.?

?

I would also request that if there are any other materials, online profiles, or places where his representation of EFA is stated that that too be updated with the EFA reference removed.?

?

I realise post ICANN it's probably a busy time for you, but when appropriate I would very much value you being in touch to advise on how EFA can continue appropriate representation in ICANN going forward.?

?

Many thanks,?

?

Lyndsey

?

?

Peter Tonoli EFA Vice Chair cc'd into correspondence?

--?

? Lyndsey Jackson | Chair

? Electronic Frontiers Australia

? chair at efa.org.au

_______________________________________________
NCSG-EC mailing list
NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec


_______________________________________________
NCSG-EC mailing list
NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
  
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Thu Nov 14 19:12:43 2019
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2019 17:12:43 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Fwd: [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised
 representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia
In-Reply-To: <1058229766.200903.1573741148222@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <122A287E-8E9F-46B6-8E56-52E7F815223E@icann.org>
 <EBB7127B-F73A-40BB-907F-BDC3EBAC5690@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAPZSw-om+EPUPxaRMYyEO0BT3TWf1Ji-wsmtibJybbzvO3tHxQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPZSw-qZuGZzuqn4AD+B7-1n8mQd=8dAOQL7Q21ydKTiSn81Cg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1058229766.200903.1573741148222@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <c4fc0ddb-63ad-7d12-a9bf-2060c4caed8a@mail.utoronto.ca>

Just out of curiousity, I wonder how many votes David got?  4 for NPOC and 4 for NCUC/  How does that work Maryam?

cheers Steph

PS I am sending David the complaint with the name removed.  I do not want to receive a privacy complaint on top of everything else.

On 2019-11-14 09:19, Juan Manuel Rojas wrote:
Hi all,
As NPOC Membership Chair I will ask her give us a name to change of their representative in our Constituency.

JUAN MANUEL ROJAS P.
Presidente - AGEIA DENSI Colombia
Membership Committee Chair. Non-for-Profit Operational Concerns Constituency (NPOC) - ICANN
Cluster Orinoco TIC member
Master IT candidate, Universidad de los Andes

Cel. +57 3017435600
Twitter: @JmanuRojas<http://www.twitter.com/jmanurojas>








El mi?rcoles, 13 de noviembre de 2019 06:20:26 p. m. GMT-5, Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is><mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> escribi?:


Ok yes so he is indeed listed as representative of EFA as well as an "employee" of that organization.

I think it would be important to know whether anyone represents EFA at this point as far as NPOC is concerned however; otherwise we'll have a technically inactive org.

Best,

On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 6:18 PM Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com<mailto:rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>> wrote:
Can't access members.ncsg.is<http://members.ncsg.is> just now and I am not informed of who he claims/ed to represent, but if he indeed does not represent any organization then he must be an individual member, with whatever ensues on the side of NPOC.

So yes do contact him.

Best,

On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 6:09 PM U Of T via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
I will reach out to her and explain how our membership system works.  If you all agree, I will notify David immediately that he has to change his membership status in NCSG to individual.  I guess that means dropping out of NPOC?
Cheers Stephanie

Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

From: Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org<mailto:maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>>
Date: November 13, 2019 at 16:43:35 EST
To: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA<mailto:stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA>>
Subject: FW:  [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia

?

Hi Stephanie,

FYI?



Many thanks,

--



Maryam Bakoshi | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator

ICANN | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers

S: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | T: +44 7846 471777





From: Lyndsey Jackson EFA Chair <chair at efa.org.au<mailto:chair at efa.org.au>>
Date: Tuesday, 12 November 2019 at 04:58
To: Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org<mailto:maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>>
Cc: Peter Tonoli <peter at metaverse.org<mailto:peter at metaverse.org>>
Subject: [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia



Dear Maryam Bakoshi,



I have been contacted by a participant at ICANN in regards to a complaint made against David Cake. While I do not wish to make any judgement on the complaint of the process, one thing that is very concerning is that this person is under the impression that David Cake has been participating on behalf of Electronic Frontiers Australia as a representative to the Not-for-Profit Operational Concerns Constituency of ICANN.



David Cake in no way has authority from the EFA board to do this. David was not renominated for the board in 2017. In 2018 he was renominated, however shortly after the board unanimously voted to remove him. He does not have any board approval to represent the organisation, he has not advised the board of any involvement, and has not reported back to the board at all. He has not been the Chair of EFA for the past two years, I have. David is still involved in the EFA policy committee, however he holds no position or authorisation, and his involvement over the past two years has been marginal.



I have emailed David to ask him to clarify and confirm that he is not participating in ICANN as a representative of EFA. If he is, it would be a breach of the organisations rules. I have also asked that he emails you to ask that this page be updated as a priority to remove the line about David being the EFA chair https://npoc.org/leadership/ [npoc.org]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__npoc.org_leadership_&d=DwMFAg&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=ffh87nniKwre858txaLC_xzlo3-mMLc56UX_BYV5_t8&s=D0h6EhNXmHAmX9WSK0laGwEoUsZYkSeW-7yaY_W0vDA&e=> - I do expect him to do this, however would like this updated as a matter of priority regardless.



I would also request that if there are any other materials, online profiles, or places where his representation of EFA is stated that that too be updated with the EFA reference removed.



I realise post ICANN it's probably a busy time for you, but when appropriate I would very much value you being in touch to advise on how EFA can continue appropriate representation in ICANN going forward.



Many thanks,



Lyndsey





Peter Tonoli EFA Vice Chair cc'd into correspondence

--

  Lyndsey Jackson | Chair

  Electronic Frontiers Australia

  chair at efa.org.au<mailto:chair at efa.org.au>

_______________________________________________
NCSG-EC mailing list
NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
_______________________________________________
NCSG-EC mailing list
NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Thu Nov 14 19:32:11 2019
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2019 17:32:11 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Complaint regarding your membership as a representative
 of EFF Australia
Message-ID: <97b4ee86-ed92-6779-c3be-f928afca558c@mail.utoronto.ca>

I have received a complaint regarding your conduct, as well as an email from EFF Australia supporting the allegations in the complaint.

The complainant believes that you have misrepresented yourself, misappropriated NCSG travel resources, and cast votes in our elections when you were ineligible to do so. The complaint has been referred to the NCSG Executive Committee for investigation and sanctions if appropriate.  I am citing below the statement of facts verbatim, as contaned in the complaint:


 ?* Statement of Facts *

As recently as last week, on the public record Mr Cake introduced himself as a representative of Electronic Frontiers Australia (EFA) at ICANN 66.

Mr Cake is listed as the representative of EFA on both the public NCSG members list and on the NPOC membership list. He includes this affiliation in his biography on the NPOC website. It has been on the basis of this affiliation that Mr Cake has been eligible to cast votes in NCSG elections as an organizational member and to utilize NPOC travel funding.

I understand that EFA is classed by the NCSG as a large organization and therefore he has received 4 votes to cast in elections, rather than 1 as an individual member would receive.

I have made contact with the Chair of EFA, Lyndsey Jackson, who has advised me that Mr Cake does not have authorization to represent EFA within NPOC, NCUC, NCSG, or ICANN more broadly, and has not since 2017. I have been told that he would be well aware of their protocols for representing EFA in external fora. I have provided Ms Jackson with the contact details for Maryam Bakoshi so that EFA may formally communicate this message to the EC.

As Mr Cake does not have the permission of EFA to represent them within NPOC, and has not since 2017, I believe that the votes he has cast in recent elections should not have been admitted (though they do not change the ultimate outcome of the election). His use of NPOC resources to travel to ICANN meetings, as an organizational member, when not authorized to represent said organization, strikes me as unacceptable and a misappropriation of NCSG resources.

I believe Mr Cake?s conduct here violates section 1.2.d of the NCSG charter, which says all NCSG members must act ?with honesty, sincerity, and integrity?, and threatens to bring the reputation of the NCSG into disrepute.

[end of quotation]

May I say that at a personal level, I am very sorry to be dealing with this unfortunate matter, but it is the duty of the Executive Committee of the NCSG, and the Chairs of the constituencies as appropriate, to investigate and take action if there is truth to these allegations.  We would appreciate hearing your response and proposed remedies, if any, at your earliest convenience.

Kind regards,
Stephanie Perrin
NCSG Chair



From maryam.bakoshi at icann.org  Thu Nov 14 22:13:18 2019
From: maryam.bakoshi at icann.org (Maryam Bakoshi)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2019 20:13:18 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Fwd: [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised
 representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia
In-Reply-To: <c4fc0ddb-63ad-7d12-a9bf-2060c4caed8a@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <122A287E-8E9F-46B6-8E56-52E7F815223E@icann.org>
 <EBB7127B-F73A-40BB-907F-BDC3EBAC5690@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAPZSw-om+EPUPxaRMYyEO0BT3TWf1Ji-wsmtibJybbzvO3tHxQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPZSw-qZuGZzuqn4AD+B7-1n8mQd=8dAOQL7Q21ydKTiSn81Cg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1058229766.200903.1573741148222@mail.yahoo.com>,
 <c4fc0ddb-63ad-7d12-a9bf-2060c4caed8a@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <D5B2CDC9-8B75-478E-BC53-E4C9A9A06601@icann.org>

Hi Stephanie,

4 votes for NCSG, and NCUC; 1 for NPOC.

?
Many thanks,


Maryam Bakoshi | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
ICANN | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
S: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | T: ?+44 7846 471777?

On 14 Nov 2019, at 17:12, Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:

?

Just out of curiousity, I wonder how many votes David got?  4 for NPOC and 4 for NCUC/  How does that work Maryam?

cheers Steph

PS I am sending David the complaint with the name removed.  I do not want to receive a privacy complaint on top of everything else.

On 2019-11-14 09:19, Juan Manuel Rojas wrote:
Hi all,
As NPOC Membership Chair I will ask her give us a name to change of their representative in our Constituency.

JUAN MANUEL ROJAS P.
Presidente - AGEIA DENSI Colombia
Membership Committee Chair. Non-for-Profit Operational Concerns Constituency (NPOC) - ICANN
Cluster Orinoco TIC member
Master IT candidate, Universidad de los Andes

Cel. +57 3017435600
Twitter: @JmanuRojas [twitter.com]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.twitter.com_jmanurojas&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=l1drrYpbQPMTmL_auYui7kwT4YYKeEBn2RJo9xwGKIQ&e=>








El mi?rcoles, 13 de noviembre de 2019 06:20:26 p. m. GMT-5, Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is><mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> escribi?:


Ok yes so he is indeed listed as representative of EFA as well as an "employee" of that organization.

I think it would be important to know whether anyone represents EFA at this point as far as NPOC is concerned however; otherwise we'll have a technically inactive org.

Best,

On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 6:18 PM Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com<mailto:rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>> wrote:
Can't access members.ncsg.is [members.ncsg.is]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__members.ncsg.is&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=MXYFch-rg2gPFFHMOPHzOyrE5sXRntSLOoY5XZLpl8E&e=> just now and I am not informed of who he claims/ed to represent, but if he indeed does not represent any organization then he must be an individual member, with whatever ensues on the side of NPOC.

So yes do contact him.

Best,

On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 6:09 PM U Of T via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
I will reach out to her and explain how our membership system works.  If you all agree, I will notify David immediately that he has to change his membership status in NCSG to individual.  I guess that means dropping out of NPOC?
Cheers Stephanie

Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

From: Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org<mailto:maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>>
Date: November 13, 2019 at 16:43:35 EST
To: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA<mailto:stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA>>
Subject: FW:  [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia

?

Hi Stephanie,

FYI?



Many thanks,

--



Maryam Bakoshi | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator

ICANN | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers

S: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | T: +44 7846 471777





From: Lyndsey Jackson EFA Chair <chair at efa.org.au<mailto:chair at efa.org.au>>
Date: Tuesday, 12 November 2019 at 04:58
To: Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org<mailto:maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>>
Cc: Peter Tonoli <peter at metaverse.org<mailto:peter at metaverse.org>>
Subject: [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia



Dear Maryam Bakoshi,



I have been contacted by a participant at ICANN in regards to a complaint made against David Cake. While I do not wish to make any judgement on the complaint of the process, one thing that is very concerning is that this person is under the impression that David Cake has been participating on behalf of Electronic Frontiers Australia as a representative to the Not-for-Profit Operational Concerns Constituency of ICANN.



David Cake in no way has authority from the EFA board to do this. David was not renominated for the board in 2017. In 2018 he was renominated, however shortly after the board unanimously voted to remove him. He does not have any board approval to represent the organisation, he has not advised the board of any involvement, and has not reported back to the board at all. He has not been the Chair of EFA for the past two years, I have. David is still involved in the EFA policy committee, however he holds no position or authorisation, and his involvement over the past two years has been marginal.



I have emailed David to ask him to clarify and confirm that he is not participating in ICANN as a representative of EFA. If he is, it would be a breach of the organisations rules. I have also asked that he emails you to ask that this page be updated as a priority to remove the line about David being the EFA chair https://npoc.org/leadership/ [npoc.org]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__npoc.org_leadership_&d=DwMFAg&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=ffh87nniKwre858txaLC_xzlo3-mMLc56UX_BYV5_t8&s=D0h6EhNXmHAmX9WSK0laGwEoUsZYkSeW-7yaY_W0vDA&e=> - I do expect him to do this, however would like this updated as a matter of priority regardless.



I would also request that if there are any other materials, online profiles, or places where his representation of EFA is stated that that too be updated with the EFA reference removed.



I realise post ICANN it's probably a busy time for you, but when appropriate I would very much value you being in touch to advise on how EFA can continue appropriate representation in ICANN going forward.



Many thanks,



Lyndsey





Peter Tonoli EFA Vice Chair cc'd into correspondence

--

  Lyndsey Jackson | Chair

  Electronic Frontiers Australia

  chair at efa.org.au<mailto:chair at efa.org.au>

_______________________________________________
NCSG-EC mailing list
NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec [lists.ncsg.is]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.ncsg.is_mailman_listinfo_ncsg-2Dec&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=dNq8j3DyLW98Owbp1sLozJlXMzWQ_H_TcuNJ14q9B7Y&e=>
_______________________________________________
NCSG-EC mailing list
NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec [lists.ncsg.is]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.ncsg.is_mailman_listinfo_ncsg-2Dec&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=dNq8j3DyLW98Owbp1sLozJlXMzWQ_H_TcuNJ14q9B7Y&e=>
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Fri Nov 15 00:17:03 2019
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2019 22:17:03 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Fwd: [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised
 representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia
In-Reply-To: <D5B2CDC9-8B75-478E-BC53-E4C9A9A06601@icann.org>
References: <122A287E-8E9F-46B6-8E56-52E7F815223E@icann.org>
 <EBB7127B-F73A-40BB-907F-BDC3EBAC5690@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAPZSw-om+EPUPxaRMYyEO0BT3TWf1Ji-wsmtibJybbzvO3tHxQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPZSw-qZuGZzuqn4AD+B7-1n8mQd=8dAOQL7Q21ydKTiSn81Cg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1058229766.200903.1573741148222@mail.yahoo.com>
 <c4fc0ddb-63ad-7d12-a9bf-2060c4caed8a@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <D5B2CDC9-8B75-478E-BC53-E4C9A9A06601@icann.org>
Message-ID: <269f3f7f-e0fe-e3f7-96c2-94bbe714e10b@mail.utoronto.ca>

Thanks!

SP

On 2019-11-14 15:13, Maryam Bakoshi wrote:
Hi Stephanie,

4 votes for NCSG, and NCUC; 1 for NPOC.

?
Many thanks,


Maryam Bakoshi | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
ICANN | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
S: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | T: ?+44 7846 471777?

On 14 Nov 2019, at 17:12, Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is><mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:

?

Just out of curiousity, I wonder how many votes David got?  4 for NPOC and 4 for NCUC/  How does that work Maryam?

cheers Steph

PS I am sending David the complaint with the name removed.  I do not want to receive a privacy complaint on top of everything else.

On 2019-11-14 09:19, Juan Manuel Rojas wrote:
Hi all,
As NPOC Membership Chair I will ask her give us a name to change of their representative in our Constituency.

JUAN MANUEL ROJAS P.
Presidente - AGEIA DENSI Colombia
Membership Committee Chair. Non-for-Profit Operational Concerns Constituency (NPOC) - ICANN
Cluster Orinoco TIC member
Master IT candidate, Universidad de los Andes

Cel. +57 3017435600
Twitter: @JmanuRojas [twitter.com]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.twitter.com_jmanurojas&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=l1drrYpbQPMTmL_auYui7kwT4YYKeEBn2RJo9xwGKIQ&e=>








El mi?rcoles, 13 de noviembre de 2019 06:20:26 p. m. GMT-5, Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is><mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> escribi?:


Ok yes so he is indeed listed as representative of EFA as well as an "employee" of that organization.

I think it would be important to know whether anyone represents EFA at this point as far as NPOC is concerned however; otherwise we'll have a technically inactive org.

Best,

On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 6:18 PM Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com<mailto:rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>> wrote:
Can't access members.ncsg.is [members.ncsg.is]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__members.ncsg.is&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=MXYFch-rg2gPFFHMOPHzOyrE5sXRntSLOoY5XZLpl8E&e=> just now and I am not informed of who he claims/ed to represent, but if he indeed does not represent any organization then he must be an individual member, with whatever ensues on the side of NPOC.

So yes do contact him.

Best,

On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 6:09 PM U Of T via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
I will reach out to her and explain how our membership system works.  If you all agree, I will notify David immediately that he has to change his membership status in NCSG to individual.  I guess that means dropping out of NPOC?
Cheers Stephanie

Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

From: Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org<mailto:maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>>
Date: November 13, 2019 at 16:43:35 EST
To: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA<mailto:stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA>>
Subject: FW:  [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia

?

Hi Stephanie,

FYI?



Many thanks,

--



Maryam Bakoshi | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator

ICANN | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers

S: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | T: +44 7846 471777





From: Lyndsey Jackson EFA Chair <chair at efa.org.au<mailto:chair at efa.org.au>>
Date: Tuesday, 12 November 2019 at 04:58
To: Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org<mailto:maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>>
Cc: Peter Tonoli <peter at metaverse.org<mailto:peter at metaverse.org>>
Subject: [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia



Dear Maryam Bakoshi,



I have been contacted by a participant at ICANN in regards to a complaint made against David Cake. While I do not wish to make any judgement on the complaint of the process, one thing that is very concerning is that this person is under the impression that David Cake has been participating on behalf of Electronic Frontiers Australia as a representative to the Not-for-Profit Operational Concerns Constituency of ICANN.



David Cake in no way has authority from the EFA board to do this. David was not renominated for the board in 2017. In 2018 he was renominated, however shortly after the board unanimously voted to remove him. He does not have any board approval to represent the organisation, he has not advised the board of any involvement, and has not reported back to the board at all. He has not been the Chair of EFA for the past two years, I have. David is still involved in the EFA policy committee, however he holds no position or authorisation, and his involvement over the past two years has been marginal.



I have emailed David to ask him to clarify and confirm that he is not participating in ICANN as a representative of EFA. If he is, it would be a breach of the organisations rules. I have also asked that he emails you to ask that this page be updated as a priority to remove the line about David being the EFA chair https://npoc.org/leadership/ [npoc.org]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__npoc.org_leadership_&d=DwMFAg&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=ffh87nniKwre858txaLC_xzlo3-mMLc56UX_BYV5_t8&s=D0h6EhNXmHAmX9WSK0laGwEoUsZYkSeW-7yaY_W0vDA&e=> - I do expect him to do this, however would like this updated as a matter of priority regardless.



I would also request that if there are any other materials, online profiles, or places where his representation of EFA is stated that that too be updated with the EFA reference removed.



I realise post ICANN it's probably a busy time for you, but when appropriate I would very much value you being in touch to advise on how EFA can continue appropriate representation in ICANN going forward.



Many thanks,



Lyndsey





Peter Tonoli EFA Vice Chair cc'd into correspondence

--

  Lyndsey Jackson | Chair

  Electronic Frontiers Australia

  chair at efa.org.au<mailto:chair at efa.org.au>

_______________________________________________
NCSG-EC mailing list
NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec [lists.ncsg.is]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.ncsg.is_mailman_listinfo_ncsg-2Dec&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=dNq8j3DyLW98Owbp1sLozJlXMzWQ_H_TcuNJ14q9B7Y&e=>
_______________________________________________
NCSG-EC mailing list
NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec [lists.ncsg.is]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.ncsg.is_mailman_listinfo_ncsg-2Dec&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=dNq8j3DyLW98Owbp1sLozJlXMzWQ_H_TcuNJ14q9B7Y&e=>
_______________________________________________
NCSG-EC mailing list
NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.ncsg.is_mailman_listinfo_ncsg-2Dec&d=DwIGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=dNq8j3DyLW98Owbp1sLozJlXMzWQ_H_TcuNJ14q9B7Y&e=
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From jumaropi at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 15 14:57:08 2019
From: jumaropi at yahoo.com (Juan Manuel Rojas)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 12:57:08 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Fwd: [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised
 representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia
In-Reply-To: <269f3f7f-e0fe-e3f7-96c2-94bbe714e10b@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <122A287E-8E9F-46B6-8E56-52E7F815223E@icann.org>
 <EBB7127B-F73A-40BB-907F-BDC3EBAC5690@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAPZSw-om+EPUPxaRMYyEO0BT3TWf1Ji-wsmtibJybbzvO3tHxQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPZSw-qZuGZzuqn4AD+B7-1n8mQd=8dAOQL7Q21ydKTiSn81Cg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1058229766.200903.1573741148222@mail.yahoo.com>
 <c4fc0ddb-63ad-7d12-a9bf-2060c4caed8a@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <D5B2CDC9-8B75-478E-BC53-E4C9A9A06601@icann.org>
 <269f3f7f-e0fe-e3f7-96c2-94bbe714e10b@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <1496559131.647186.1573822628025@mail.yahoo.com>

Hi everyone!I've been gathering information to know what we should do. According to our records David Cake is only member as Organizational Representative for EFA, so we can let aside any thought about his individual membership. On the other hand, I was reading both NPOC and NCSG charter and I found the following:
In NCSG charter says: "The Official Representative must be formally delegated authority to represent the Member Organization within NCSG? proceedings by an authorized officer or official of that Member Organization", forward it mention about loss of membership:"In the event that an NCSG member in good standing believes that membership is? held inappropriately by another organization or individual, a request can be made? to the NCSG EC to review whether the disputed member meets the criteria for? membership."?I have not found any other mention to sanction or penalties on this regard.
Otherwise, in NPOC charter under?9.3 Privileges and Limitations says: "In the event the (NPOC) EC discovers that a member did not declare a potential conflict of interest, its membership shall be suspended by the EC for six (6) months."?

My two cents,?
JUAN MANUEL ROJAS P.
Presidente?-?AGEIA DENSI?ColombiaNCSG EC - ICANNCluster Orinoco TIC memberMaster IT candidate, Universidad de los Andes
Cel. +57 3017435600
Twitter:?@JmanuRojas





? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 

    El jueves, 14 de noviembre de 2019 05:17:06 p.?m. GMT-5, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> escribi?:  
 
 
Thanks!

SP

On 2019-11-14 15:13, Maryam Bakoshi wrote:

Hi Stephanie,
4 votes for NCSG, and NCUC; 1 for NPOC.?

?Many thanks,

Maryam Bakoshi?| SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator?ICANN?| Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers?S: Maryam.bakoshi.icann |?T:??+44 7846 471777?

On 14 Nov 2019, at 17:12, Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:



?
Just out of curiousity, I wonder how many votes David got?? 4 for NPOC and 4 for NCUC/? How does that work Maryam?

cheers Steph

PS I am sending David the complaint with the name removed.? I do not want to receive a privacy complaint on top of everything else.

On 2019-11-14 09:19, Juan Manuel Rojas wrote:

Hi all,?As NPOC Membership Chair I will ask her give us a name to change of their representative in our Constituency.??
JUAN MANUEL ROJAS P.
Presidente?-?AGEIA DENSI?ColombiaMembership Committee Chair.?Non-for-Profit Operational Concerns Constituency (NPOC) - ICANNCluster Orinoco TIC memberMaster IT candidate, Universidad de los Andes
Cel. +57 3017435600
Twitter:?@JmanuRojas [twitter.com]





? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

El mi?rcoles, 13 de noviembre de 2019 06:20:26 p.?m. GMT-5, Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC<ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> escribi?: 

Ok yes so he is indeed listed as representative of EFA as well as an "employee" of that organization.
I think it would be important to know whether anyone represents EFA at this point as far as NPOC is concerned however; otherwise we'll have a technically inactive org.?
Best,
On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 6:18 PM Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:

Can't access members.ncsg.is [members.ncsg.is] just now and I am not informed of who he claims/ed to represent, but if he indeed does not represent any organization then he must be an individual member, with whatever ensues on the side of NPOC.
So yes do contact him.

Best,?
On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 6:09 PM U Of T via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:

I will reach out to her and explain how our membership system works.? If you all agree, I will notify David immediately that he has to change his membership status in NCSG to individual.? I guess that means dropping out of NPOC?Cheers Stephanie

Sent from my iPhone
Begin forwarded message:


From: Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>
Date: November 13, 2019 at 16:43:35 EST
To: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject: FW:? [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia



?
Hi Stephanie,

FYI?

?

Many thanks,

--?

?

Maryam Bakoshi?| SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator?

ICANN?| Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers?

S: Maryam.bakoshi.icann |?T:?+44 7846 471777

?

?

From:Lyndsey Jackson EFA Chair <chair at efa.org.au>
Date: Tuesday, 12 November 2019 at 04:58
To: Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>
Cc: Peter Tonoli <peter at metaverse.org>
Subject: [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia

?

Dear Maryam Bakoshi,

?

I have been contacted by a participant at ICANN in regards to a complaint made against David Cake. While I do not wish to make any judgement on the complaint of the process, one thing that is very concerning is that this person is under the impression that David Cake has been participating on behalf of Electronic Frontiers Australia as a representative to the Not-for-Profit Operational Concerns Constituency of ICANN.

?

David Cake in no way has authority from the EFA board to do this. David was not renominated for the board in 2017. In 2018 he was renominated, however shortly after the board unanimously voted to remove him. He does not have any board approval to represent the organisation, he has not advised the board of any involvement, and has not reported back to the board at all. He has not been the Chair of EFA for the past two years, I have. David is still involved in the EFA policy committee, however he holds no position or authorisation, and his involvement over the past two years has been marginal.?

?

I have emailed David to ask him to clarify and confirm that he is not participating in ICANN as a representative of EFA. If he is, it would be a breach of the organisations rules. I have also asked that he emails you to ask that this page be updated as a priority to remove the line about David being the EFA chair?https://npoc.org/leadership/ [npoc.org]?- I do expect him to do this, however would like this updated as a matter of priority regardless.?

?

I would also request that if there are any other materials, online profiles, or places where his representation of EFA is stated that that too be updated with the EFA reference removed.?

?

I realise post ICANN it's probably a busy time for you, but when appropriate I would very much value you being in touch to advise on how EFA can continue appropriate representation in ICANN going forward.?

?

Many thanks,?

?

Lyndsey

?

?

Peter Tonoli EFA Vice Chair cc'd into correspondence?

--?

? Lyndsey Jackson | Chair

? Electronic Frontiers Australia

? chair at efa.org.au

_______________________________________________
NCSG-EC mailing list
NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec [lists.ncsg.is]


_______________________________________________
NCSG-EC mailing list
NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec [lists.ncsg.is]

_______________________________________________
NCSG-EC mailing list
NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.ncsg.is_mailman_listinfo_ncsg-2Dec&d=DwIGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=dNq8j3DyLW98Owbp1sLozJlXMzWQ_H_TcuNJ14q9B7Y&e=


  
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From plommer at gmail.com  Fri Nov 15 15:52:47 2019
From: plommer at gmail.com (Raoul Plommer)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 15:52:47 +0200
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Fwd: [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised
 representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia
In-Reply-To: <1496559131.647186.1573822628025@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <122A287E-8E9F-46B6-8E56-52E7F815223E@icann.org>
 <EBB7127B-F73A-40BB-907F-BDC3EBAC5690@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAPZSw-om+EPUPxaRMYyEO0BT3TWf1Ji-wsmtibJybbzvO3tHxQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPZSw-qZuGZzuqn4AD+B7-1n8mQd=8dAOQL7Q21ydKTiSn81Cg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1058229766.200903.1573741148222@mail.yahoo.com>
 <c4fc0ddb-63ad-7d12-a9bf-2060c4caed8a@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <D5B2CDC9-8B75-478E-BC53-E4C9A9A06601@icann.org>
 <269f3f7f-e0fe-e3f7-96c2-94bbe714e10b@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <1496559131.647186.1573822628025@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CADirp9ST8yPXVVXuKKCHV-G9997RGYYZRjjWrpdmYiAKaztBtA@mail.gmail.com>

I think removing membership from NPOC is punishment enough, to be honest
and we already did that, at least on our list of members. The complaint is
fairly public already. I think the next and perhaps final step would be to
ask Lyndsey for a replacement to Dave, possibly two, (OR & AR).

-Raoul

On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 at 14:57, Juan Manuel Rojas via NCSG-EC <
ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:

> Hi everyone!
> I've been gathering information to know what we should do. According to
> our records David Cake is only member as Organizational Representative for
> EFA, so we can let aside any thought about his individual membership. On
> the other hand, I was reading both NPOC and NCSG charter and I found the
> following:
>
> In NCSG charter says: *"The Official Representative must be formally
> delegated authority to represent the Member Organization within NCSG
> proceedings by an authorized officer or official of that Member
> Organization"*, forward it mention about loss of membership:
> *"In the event that an NCSG member in good standing believes that
> membership is  held inappropriately by another organization or individual,
> a request can be made  to the NCSG EC to review whether the disputed member
> meets the criteria for  membership."* I have not found any other mention
> to sanction or penalties on this regard.
>
> Otherwise, in NPOC charter under *9.3 Privileges and Limitations *says: "
> *In the event the (NPOC) EC discovers that a member did not declare a
> potential conflict of interest, its membership shall be suspended by the EC
> for six (6) months." *
>
> My two cents,
>
> JUAN MANUEL ROJAS P.
> Presidente - AGEIA DENSI Colombia
> NCSG EC - ICANN
> Cluster Orinoco TIC member
> Master IT candidate, Universidad de los Andes
>
> Cel. +57 3017435600
> Twitter: @JmanuRojas <http://www.twitter.com/jmanurojas>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> El jueves, 14 de noviembre de 2019 05:17:06 p. m. GMT-5, Stephanie Perrin <
> stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> escribi?:
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> SP
> On 2019-11-14 15:13, Maryam Bakoshi wrote:
>
> Hi Stephanie,
>
> 4 votes for NCSG, and NCUC; 1 for NPOC.
>
> ?
> Many thanks,
>
>
> *Maryam Bakoshi* | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
> *ICANN* | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
> *S*: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | *T*: ?+44 7846 471777?
>
> On 14 Nov 2019, at 17:12, Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC
> <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>
> ?
>
> Just out of curiousity, I wonder how many votes David got?  4 for NPOC and
> 4 for NCUC/  How does that work Maryam?
>
> cheers Steph
>
> PS I am sending David the complaint with the name removed.  I do not want
> to receive a privacy complaint on top of everything else.
> On 2019-11-14 09:19, Juan Manuel Rojas wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> As NPOC Membership Chair I will ask her give us a name to change of their
> representative in our Constituency.
>
> JUAN MANUEL ROJAS P.
> Presidente - AGEIA DENSI Colombia
> Membership Committee Chair. Non-for-Profit Operational Concerns
> Constituency (NPOC) - ICANN
> Cluster Orinoco TIC member
> Master IT candidate, Universidad de los Andes
>
> Cel. +57 3017435600
> Twitter: @JmanuRojas [twitter.com]
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.twitter.com_jmanurojas&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=l1drrYpbQPMTmL_auYui7kwT4YYKeEBn2RJo9xwGKIQ&e=>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> El mi?rcoles, 13 de noviembre de 2019 06:20:26 p. m. GMT-5, Rapha?l
> Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>
> <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> escribi?:
>
>
> Ok yes so he is indeed listed as representative of EFA as well as an
> "employee" of that organization.
>
> I think it would be important to know whether anyone represents EFA at
> this point as far as NPOC is concerned however; otherwise we'll have a
> technically inactive org.
>
> Best,
>
> On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 6:18 PM Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix <
> rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Can't access members.ncsg.is [members.ncsg.is]
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__members.ncsg.is&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=MXYFch-rg2gPFFHMOPHzOyrE5sXRntSLOoY5XZLpl8E&e=>
> just now and I am not informed of who he claims/ed to represent, but if he
> indeed does not represent any organization then he must be an individual
> member, with whatever ensues on the side of NPOC.
>
> So yes do contact him.
>
> Best,
>
> On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 6:09 PM U Of T via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>
> wrote:
>
> I will reach out to her and explain how our membership system works.  If
> you all agree, I will notify David immediately that he has to change his
> membership status in NCSG to individual.  I guess that means dropping out
> of NPOC?
> Cheers Stephanie
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> *From:* Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>
> *Date:* November 13, 2019 at 16:43:35 EST
> *To:* Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA>
> *Subject:* *FW:  [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised
> representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia*
>
> ?
>
> Hi Stephanie,
>
> FYI?
>
>
>
> Many thanks,
>
> --
>
>
>
> *Maryam Bakoshi* | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
>
> *ICANN* | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
>
> *S*: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | *T*: +44 7846 471777
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Lyndsey Jackson EFA Chair <chair at efa.org.au>
> *Date: *Tuesday, 12 November 2019 at 04:58
> *To: *Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>
> *Cc: *Peter Tonoli <peter at metaverse.org>
> *Subject: *[Ext] David Cake is not an authorised
> representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia
>
>
>
> Dear Maryam Bakoshi,
>
>
>
> I have been contacted by a participant at ICANN in regards to a complaint
> made against David Cake. While I do not wish to make any judgement on the
> complaint of the process, one thing that is very concerning is that this
> person is under the impression that David Cake has been participating on
> behalf of Electronic Frontiers Australia as a representative to the
> Not-for-Profit Operational Concerns Constituency of ICANN.
>
>
>
> David Cake in no way has authority from the EFA board to do this. David
> was not renominated for the board in 2017. In 2018 he was renominated,
> however shortly after the board unanimously voted to remove him. He does
> not have any board approval to represent the organisation, he has not
> advised the board of any involvement, and has not reported back to the
> board at all. He has not been the Chair of EFA for the past two years, I
> have. David is still involved in the EFA policy committee, however he holds
> no position or authorisation, and his involvement over the past two years
> has been marginal.
>
>
>
> I have emailed David to ask him to clarify and confirm that he is not
> participating in ICANN as a representative of EFA. If he is, it would be a
> breach of the organisations rules. I have also asked that he emails you to
> ask that this page be updated as a priority to remove the line about David
> being the EFA chair https://npoc.org/leadership/ [npoc.org]
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__npoc.org_leadership_&d=DwMFAg&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=ffh87nniKwre858txaLC_xzlo3-mMLc56UX_BYV5_t8&s=D0h6EhNXmHAmX9WSK0laGwEoUsZYkSeW-7yaY_W0vDA&e=> -
> I do expect him to do this, however would like this updated as a matter of
> priority regardless.
>
>
>
> I would also request that if there are any other materials, online
> profiles, or places where his representation of EFA is stated that that too
> be updated with the EFA reference removed.
>
>
>
> I realise post ICANN it's probably a busy time for you, but when
> appropriate I would very much value you being in touch to advise on how EFA
> can continue appropriate representation in ICANN going forward.
>
>
>
> Many thanks,
>
>
>
> Lyndsey
>
>
>
>
>
> Peter Tonoli EFA Vice Chair cc'd into correspondence
>
> --
>
>   Lyndsey Jackson | Chair
>
>   Electronic Frontiers Australia
>
>   chair at efa.org.au
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec [lists.ncsg.is]
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.ncsg.is_mailman_listinfo_ncsg-2Dec&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=dNq8j3DyLW98Owbp1sLozJlXMzWQ_H_TcuNJ14q9B7Y&e=>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec [lists.ncsg.is]
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.ncsg.is_mailman_listinfo_ncsg-2Dec&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=dNq8j3DyLW98Owbp1sLozJlXMzWQ_H_TcuNJ14q9B7Y&e=>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.ncsg.is_mailman_listinfo_ncsg-2Dec&d=DwIGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=dNq8j3DyLW98Owbp1sLozJlXMzWQ_H_TcuNJ14q9B7Y&e=
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Fri Nov 15 17:50:29 2019
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 15:50:29 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Fwd: [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised
 representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia
In-Reply-To: <CADirp9ST8yPXVVXuKKCHV-G9997RGYYZRjjWrpdmYiAKaztBtA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <122A287E-8E9F-46B6-8E56-52E7F815223E@icann.org>
 <EBB7127B-F73A-40BB-907F-BDC3EBAC5690@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAPZSw-om+EPUPxaRMYyEO0BT3TWf1Ji-wsmtibJybbzvO3tHxQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPZSw-qZuGZzuqn4AD+B7-1n8mQd=8dAOQL7Q21ydKTiSn81Cg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1058229766.200903.1573741148222@mail.yahoo.com>
 <c4fc0ddb-63ad-7d12-a9bf-2060c4caed8a@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <D5B2CDC9-8B75-478E-BC53-E4C9A9A06601@icann.org>
 <269f3f7f-e0fe-e3f7-96c2-94bbe714e10b@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <1496559131.647186.1573822628025@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CADirp9ST8yPXVVXuKKCHV-G9997RGYYZRjjWrpdmYiAKaztBtA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <764ea705-2775-3cc9-577f-4b749683889e@mail.utoronto.ca>

Unfortunately, misrepresenting yourself in order to be a member, eligible for travel funding, and receiving that funding whilst being aware of the misrepresentation, amounts to fraud.  I am not accusing anyone of fraud at this point, we have only heard one side of the story.  However, as a responsible and accountable organization, we should in my view make the organization (i.e. ICANN Travel in this case) aware that we were unaware that one of our members was not eligible for membership/funding.  All in good time, of course.  We have yet to hear from David, and I am sincerely hoping this is not as bad as it looks.

cheers Stephanie

On 2019-11-15 08:52, Raoul Plommer wrote:
I think removing membership from NPOC is punishment enough, to be honest and we already did that, at least on our list of members. The complaint is fairly public already. I think the next and perhaps final step would be to ask Lyndsey for a replacement to Dave, possibly two, (OR & AR).

-Raoul

On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 at 14:57, Juan Manuel Rojas via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
Hi everyone!
I've been gathering information to know what we should do. According to our records David Cake is only member as Organizational Representative for EFA, so we can let aside any thought about his individual membership. On the other hand, I was reading both NPOC and NCSG charter and I found the following:

In NCSG charter says: "The Official Representative must be formally delegated authority to represent the Member Organization within NCSG  proceedings by an authorized officer or official of that Member Organization", forward it mention about loss of membership:
"In the event that an NCSG member in good standing believes that membership is  held inappropriately by another organization or individual, a request can be made  to the NCSG EC to review whether the disputed member meets the criteria for  membership." I have not found any other mention to sanction or penalties on this regard.

Otherwise, in NPOC charter under 9.3 Privileges and Limitations says: "In the event the (NPOC) EC discovers that a member did not declare a potential conflict of interest, its membership shall be suspended by the EC for six (6) months."

My two cents,

JUAN MANUEL ROJAS P.
Presidente - AGEIA DENSI Colombia
NCSG EC - ICANN
Cluster Orinoco TIC member
Master IT candidate, Universidad de los Andes

Cel. +57 3017435600
Twitter: @JmanuRojas<http://www.twitter.com/jmanurojas>








El jueves, 14 de noviembre de 2019 05:17:06 p. m. GMT-5, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca<mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> escribi?:



Thanks!

SP

On 2019-11-14 15:13, Maryam Bakoshi wrote:
Hi Stephanie,

4 votes for NCSG, and NCUC; 1 for NPOC.

?
Many thanks,


Maryam Bakoshi | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
ICANN | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
S: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | T: ?+44 7846 471777?

On 14 Nov 2019, at 17:12, Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is><mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:

?

Just out of curiousity, I wonder how many votes David got?  4 for NPOC and 4 for NCUC/  How does that work Maryam?

cheers Steph

PS I am sending David the complaint with the name removed.  I do not want to receive a privacy complaint on top of everything else.

On 2019-11-14 09:19, Juan Manuel Rojas wrote:
Hi all,
As NPOC Membership Chair I will ask her give us a name to change of their representative in our Constituency.

JUAN MANUEL ROJAS P.
Presidente - AGEIA DENSI Colombia
Membership Committee Chair. Non-for-Profit Operational Concerns Constituency (NPOC) - ICANN
Cluster Orinoco TIC member
Master IT candidate, Universidad de los Andes

Cel. +57 3017435600
Twitter: @JmanuRojas [twitter.com]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.twitter.com_jmanurojas&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=l1drrYpbQPMTmL_auYui7kwT4YYKeEBn2RJo9xwGKIQ&e=>








El mi?rcoles, 13 de noviembre de 2019 06:20:26 p. m. GMT-5, Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is><mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> escribi?:


Ok yes so he is indeed listed as representative of EFA as well as an "employee" of that organization.

I think it would be important to know whether anyone represents EFA at this point as far as NPOC is concerned however; otherwise we'll have a technically inactive org.

Best,

On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 6:18 PM Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com<mailto:rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>> wrote:
Can't access members.ncsg.is [members.ncsg.is]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__members.ncsg.is&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=MXYFch-rg2gPFFHMOPHzOyrE5sXRntSLOoY5XZLpl8E&e=> just now and I am not informed of who he claims/ed to represent, but if he indeed does not represent any organization then he must be an individual member, with whatever ensues on the side of NPOC.

So yes do contact him.

Best,

On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 6:09 PM U Of T via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
I will reach out to her and explain how our membership system works.  If you all agree, I will notify David immediately that he has to change his membership status in NCSG to individual.  I guess that means dropping out of NPOC?
Cheers Stephanie

Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

From: Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org<mailto:maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>>
Date: November 13, 2019 at 16:43:35 EST
To: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA<mailto:stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA>>
Subject: FW:  [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia

?

Hi Stephanie,

FYI?



Many thanks,

--



Maryam Bakoshi | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator

ICANN | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers

S: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | T: +44 7846 471777





From: Lyndsey Jackson EFA Chair <chair at efa.org.au<mailto:chair at efa.org.au>>
Date: Tuesday, 12 November 2019 at 04:58
To: Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org<mailto:maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>>
Cc: Peter Tonoli <peter at metaverse.org<mailto:peter at metaverse.org>>
Subject: [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia



Dear Maryam Bakoshi,



I have been contacted by a participant at ICANN in regards to a complaint made against David Cake. While I do not wish to make any judgement on the complaint of the process, one thing that is very concerning is that this person is under the impression that David Cake has been participating on behalf of Electronic Frontiers Australia as a representative to the Not-for-Profit Operational Concerns Constituency of ICANN.



David Cake in no way has authority from the EFA board to do this. David was not renominated for the board in 2017. In 2018 he was renominated, however shortly after the board unanimously voted to remove him. He does not have any board approval to represent the organisation, he has not advised the board of any involvement, and has not reported back to the board at all. He has not been the Chair of EFA for the past two years, I have. David is still involved in the EFA policy committee, however he holds no position or authorisation, and his involvement over the past two years has been marginal.



I have emailed David to ask him to clarify and confirm that he is not participating in ICANN as a representative of EFA. If he is, it would be a breach of the organisations rules. I have also asked that he emails you to ask that this page be updated as a priority to remove the line about David being the EFA chair https://npoc.org/leadership/ [npoc.org]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__npoc.org_leadership_&d=DwMFAg&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=ffh87nniKwre858txaLC_xzlo3-mMLc56UX_BYV5_t8&s=D0h6EhNXmHAmX9WSK0laGwEoUsZYkSeW-7yaY_W0vDA&e=> - I do expect him to do this, however would like this updated as a matter of priority regardless.



I would also request that if there are any other materials, online profiles, or places where his representation of EFA is stated that that too be updated with the EFA reference removed.



I realise post ICANN it's probably a busy time for you, but when appropriate I would very much value you being in touch to advise on how EFA can continue appropriate representation in ICANN going forward.



Many thanks,



Lyndsey





Peter Tonoli EFA Vice Chair cc'd into correspondence

--

  Lyndsey Jackson | Chair

  Electronic Frontiers Australia

  chair at efa.org.au<mailto:chair at efa.org.au>

_______________________________________________
NCSG-EC mailing list
NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec [lists.ncsg.is]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.ncsg.is_mailman_listinfo_ncsg-2Dec&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=dNq8j3DyLW98Owbp1sLozJlXMzWQ_H_TcuNJ14q9B7Y&e=>
_______________________________________________
NCSG-EC mailing list
NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec [lists.ncsg.is]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.ncsg.is_mailman_listinfo_ncsg-2Dec&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=dNq8j3DyLW98Owbp1sLozJlXMzWQ_H_TcuNJ14q9B7Y&e=>
_______________________________________________
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NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.ncsg.is_mailman_listinfo_ncsg-2Dec&d=DwIGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=dNq8j3DyLW98Owbp1sLozJlXMzWQ_H_TcuNJ14q9B7Y&e=
_______________________________________________
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From dave at davecake.net  Fri Nov 15 18:19:55 2019
From: dave at davecake.net (David Cake)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2019 00:19:55 +0800
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Complaint regarding your membership as a
 representative of EFF Australia
In-Reply-To: <97b4ee86-ed92-6779-c3be-f928afca558c@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <97b4ee86-ed92-6779-c3be-f928afca558c@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <6CC91361-44C4-4341-9387-6695838C448B@davecake.net>

I thank you for your communication.

Lyndsey Jackson and have substantially different understanding. I was clear in previous communication both Lyndsey personally and to the EFA board that I was still active within ICANN on behalf of EFA. While I am no longer a board member of EFA, I am a member of the EFA policy committee (in 2018 I was the vice-Chair), and eligible to represent ICANN within policy processes. In particular, I sent the EFA board a long message regarding representing EFA within ICANN processes in 2018, including that I received travel support. 

I have explicitly been appointed by a representative of EFA in the past, it has never been withdrawn or changed, and the board has been informed of my work and role within ICANN sufficiently in the past that if they wished to change it, or learn in more detail, they had opportunity. I have certainly believed in good faith that the board understood that I was participating in ICANN processes on behalf of EFA, and it was discussed within the policy committee of EFA at several points. I believe that the NCSG EC should wait to clarify the outcome of EFA internal discussion before acting - I have in fact been given no opportunity as yet to discuss the issue internally. 

While I will continue to discuss the issue with the EFA board, and they may wish to appoint a different representative, I do not believe they are able to do so retrospectively. I do not believe there is any lack of validity of my previous appointment. Any confusion I regret, and I was participating in ICANN processes with the sincere belief that the policy committee of EFA was aware of ICANN work. 

Obviously if I no longer represent an organisation, I no longer am able to be active within NPOC. I will apply for individual membership of NCUC/MCSG. 

Regards

David


> On 15 Nov 2019, at 1:32 am, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
> 
> I have received a complaint regarding your conduct, as well as an email from EFF Australia supporting the allegations in the complaint.
> 
> The complainant believes that you have misrepresented yourself, misappropriated NCSG travel resources, and cast votes in our elections when you were ineligible to do so. The complaint has been referred to the NCSG Executive Committee for investigation and sanctions if appropriate.  I am citing below the statement of facts verbatim, as contaned in the complaint:
> 
> 
>  * Statement of Facts *
> 
> As recently as last week, on the public record Mr Cake introduced himself as a representative of Electronic Frontiers Australia (EFA) at ICANN 66.
> 
> Mr Cake is listed as the representative of EFA on both the public NCSG members list and on the NPOC membership list. He includes this affiliation in his biography on the NPOC website. It has been on the basis of this affiliation that Mr Cake has been eligible to cast votes in NCSG elections as an organizational member and to utilize NPOC travel funding.
> 
> I understand that EFA is classed by the NCSG as a large organization and therefore he has received 4 votes to cast in elections, rather than 1 as an individual member would receive.
> 
> I have made contact with the Chair of EFA, Lyndsey Jackson, who has advised me that Mr Cake does not have authorization to represent EFA within NPOC, NCUC, NCSG, or ICANN more broadly, and has not since 2017. I have been told that he would be well aware of their protocols for representing EFA in external fora. I have provided Ms Jackson with the contact details for Maryam Bakoshi so that EFA may formally communicate this message to the EC.
> 
> As Mr Cake does not have the permission of EFA to represent them within NPOC, and has not since 2017, I believe that the votes he has cast in recent elections should not have been admitted (though they do not change the ultimate outcome of the election). His use of NPOC resources to travel to ICANN meetings, as an organizational member, when not authorized to represent said organization, strikes me as unacceptable and a misappropriation of NCSG resources.
> 
> I believe Mr Cake?s conduct here violates section 1.2.d of the NCSG charter, which says all NCSG members must act ?with honesty, sincerity, and integrity?, and threatens to bring the reputation of the NCSG into disrepute.
> 
> [end of quotation]
> 
> May I say that at a personal level, I am very sorry to be dealing with this unfortunate matter, but it is the duty of the Executive Committee of the NCSG, and the Chairs of the constituencies as appropriate, to investigate and take action if there is truth to these allegations.  We would appreciate hearing your response and proposed remedies, if any, at your earliest convenience.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Stephanie Perrin
> NCSG Chair
> 
> 



From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Fri Nov 15 19:57:58 2019
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Rapha=C3=ABl_Beauregard=2DLacroix?=)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 12:57:58 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Complaint regarding your membership as a
 representative of EFF Australia
In-Reply-To: <6CC91361-44C4-4341-9387-6695838C448B@davecake.net>
References: <97b4ee86-ed92-6779-c3be-f928afca558c@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <6CC91361-44C4-4341-9387-6695838C448B@davecake.net>
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-rmnL9SeVHC4_yVLpkbcHr+67n0fZpRcNSrVuPRSvWVPg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi David,

Thanks for your answer. I am inclined to believe you were acting in good
faith, however you will understand that if we receive an email from the
chair EFA telling us that you are not authorized to represent them, our
only choice is to remove that affiliation from our records, public and
private. As a consequence, this mechanically removes you from NPOC.

You are free obviously to clear up whatever needs to be cleared up with
EFA; whether you represented them at a certain point in time or not. Do
note however that the request we received concern only present public and
internal NCSG-related (including NPOC and NCUC) records; we were not asked
to retroactively act on every entry where your name and affiliation is
mentioned in relation to past event or involvement, and we were not asked
either to act upon every single place online that mentions you and that
affiliation.

Anyhow, this is all between you and EFA; if the result of that discussion
is that you are indeed their confirmed representative, it will not be
complicated to list you as such in our records.

I look forward to your continuous involvement in NCSG.

Have a nice day,

On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 11:56 AM David Cake via NCSG-EC <
ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:

> I thank you for your communication.
>
> Lyndsey Jackson and have substantially different understanding. I was
> clear in previous communication both Lyndsey personally and to the EFA
> board that I was still active within ICANN on behalf of EFA. While I am no
> longer a board member of EFA, I am a member of the EFA policy committee (in
> 2018 I was the vice-Chair), and eligible to represent ICANN within policy
> processes. In particular, I sent the EFA board a long message regarding
> representing EFA within ICANN processes in 2018, including that I received
> travel support.
>
> I have explicitly been appointed by a representative of EFA in the past,
> it has never been withdrawn or changed, and the board has been informed of
> my work and role within ICANN sufficiently in the past that if they wished
> to change it, or learn in more detail, they had opportunity. I have
> certainly believed in good faith that the board understood that I was
> participating in ICANN processes on behalf of EFA, and it was discussed
> within the policy committee of EFA at several points. I believe that the
> NCSG EC should wait to clarify the outcome of EFA internal discussion
> before acting - I have in fact been given no opportunity as yet to discuss
> the issue internally.
>
> While I will continue to discuss the issue with the EFA board, and they
> may wish to appoint a different representative, I do not believe they are
> able to do so retrospectively. I do not believe there is any lack of
> validity of my previous appointment. Any confusion I regret, and I was
> participating in ICANN processes with the sincere belief that the policy
> committee of EFA was aware of ICANN work.
>
> Obviously if I no longer represent an organisation, I no longer am able to
> be active within NPOC. I will apply for individual membership of NCUC/MCSG.
>
> Regards
>
> David
>
>
> > On 15 Nov 2019, at 1:32 am, Stephanie Perrin <
> stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
> >
> > I have received a complaint regarding your conduct, as well as an email
> from EFF Australia supporting the allegations in the complaint.
> >
> > The complainant believes that you have misrepresented yourself,
> misappropriated NCSG travel resources, and cast votes in our elections when
> you were ineligible to do so. The complaint has been referred to the NCSG
> Executive Committee for investigation and sanctions if appropriate.  I am
> citing below the statement of facts verbatim, as contaned in the complaint:
> >
> >
> >  * Statement of Facts *
> >
> > As recently as last week, on the public record Mr Cake introduced
> himself as a representative of Electronic Frontiers Australia (EFA) at
> ICANN 66.
> >
> > Mr Cake is listed as the representative of EFA on both the public NCSG
> members list and on the NPOC membership list. He includes this affiliation
> in his biography on the NPOC website. It has been on the basis of this
> affiliation that Mr Cake has been eligible to cast votes in NCSG elections
> as an organizational member and to utilize NPOC travel funding.
> >
> > I understand that EFA is classed by the NCSG as a large organization and
> therefore he has received 4 votes to cast in elections, rather than 1 as an
> individual member would receive.
> >
> > I have made contact with the Chair of EFA, Lyndsey Jackson, who has
> advised me that Mr Cake does not have authorization to represent EFA within
> NPOC, NCUC, NCSG, or ICANN more broadly, and has not since 2017. I have
> been told that he would be well aware of their protocols for representing
> EFA in external fora. I have provided Ms Jackson with the contact details
> for Maryam Bakoshi so that EFA may formally communicate this message to the
> EC.
> >
> > As Mr Cake does not have the permission of EFA to represent them within
> NPOC, and has not since 2017, I believe that the votes he has cast in
> recent elections should not have been admitted (though they do not change
> the ultimate outcome of the election). His use of NPOC resources to travel
> to ICANN meetings, as an organizational member, when not authorized to
> represent said organization, strikes me as unacceptable and a
> misappropriation of NCSG resources.
> >
> > I believe Mr Cake?s conduct here violates section 1.2.d of the NCSG
> charter, which says all NCSG members must act ?with honesty, sincerity, and
> integrity?, and threatens to bring the reputation of the NCSG into
> disrepute.
> >
> > [end of quotation]
> >
> > May I say that at a personal level, I am very sorry to be dealing with
> this unfortunate matter, but it is the duty of the Executive Committee of
> the NCSG, and the Chairs of the constituencies as appropriate, to
> investigate and take action if there is truth to these allegations.  We
> would appreciate hearing your response and proposed remedies, if any, at
> your earliest convenience.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Stephanie Perrin
> > NCSG Chair
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
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From robin at ipjustice.org  Fri Nov 15 20:01:49 2019
From: robin at ipjustice.org (Robin Gross)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 10:01:49 -0800
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Complaint regarding your membership as a
 representative of EFF Australia
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-rmnL9SeVHC4_yVLpkbcHr+67n0fZpRcNSrVuPRSvWVPg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <97b4ee86-ed92-6779-c3be-f928afca558c@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <6CC91361-44C4-4341-9387-6695838C448B@davecake.net>
 <CAPZSw-rmnL9SeVHC4_yVLpkbcHr+67n0fZpRcNSrVuPRSvWVPg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BFDE0A4F-2818-459B-893E-F123849CBE80@ipjustice.org>

These are the NCSG Operating Procedures that the NCSG EC should follow in handling this matter:
  NCSG-EC Procedures for Review, Re-Categorization, and Removal of NCSG Membership Status:
  https://community.icann.org/m/view-rendered-page.action?abstractPageId=88573383#

I suggest we refrain from jumping into an immediate debate with parties and instead follow our operating procedures for handling such a request.  Thanks.

Best,
Robin


> On Nov 15, 2019, at 9:57 AM, Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
> 
> Hi David,
> 
> Thanks for your answer. I am inclined to believe you were acting in good faith, however you will understand that if we receive an email from the chair EFA telling us that you are not authorized to represent them, our only choice is to remove that affiliation from our records, public and private. As a consequence, this mechanically removes you from NPOC. 
> 
> You are free obviously to clear up whatever needs to be cleared up with EFA; whether you represented them at a certain point in time or not. Do note however that the request we received concern only present public and internal NCSG-related (including NPOC and NCUC) records; we were not asked to retroactively act on every entry where your name and affiliation is mentioned in relation to past event or involvement, and we were not asked either to act upon every single place online that mentions you and that affiliation. 
> 
> Anyhow, this is all between you and EFA; if the result of that discussion is that you are indeed their confirmed representative, it will not be complicated to list you as such in our records.
> 
> I look forward to your continuous involvement in NCSG.
> 
> Have a nice day,
> 
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 11:56 AM David Cake via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
> I thank you for your communication.
> 
> Lyndsey Jackson and have substantially different understanding. I was clear in previous communication both Lyndsey personally and to the EFA board that I was still active within ICANN on behalf of EFA. While I am no longer a board member of EFA, I am a member of the EFA policy committee (in 2018 I was the vice-Chair), and eligible to represent ICANN within policy processes. In particular, I sent the EFA board a long message regarding representing EFA within ICANN processes in 2018, including that I received travel support. 
> 
> I have explicitly been appointed by a representative of EFA in the past, it has never been withdrawn or changed, and the board has been informed of my work and role within ICANN sufficiently in the past that if they wished to change it, or learn in more detail, they had opportunity. I have certainly believed in good faith that the board understood that I was participating in ICANN processes on behalf of EFA, and it was discussed within the policy committee of EFA at several points. I believe that the NCSG EC should wait to clarify the outcome of EFA internal discussion before acting - I have in fact been given no opportunity as yet to discuss the issue internally. 
> 
> While I will continue to discuss the issue with the EFA board, and they may wish to appoint a different representative, I do not believe they are able to do so retrospectively. I do not believe there is any lack of validity of my previous appointment. Any confusion I regret, and I was participating in ICANN processes with the sincere belief that the policy committee of EFA was aware of ICANN work. 
> 
> Obviously if I no longer represent an organisation, I no longer am able to be active within NPOC. I will apply for individual membership of NCUC/MCSG. 
> 
> Regards
> 
> David
> 
> 
> > On 15 Nov 2019, at 1:32 am, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
> > 
> > I have received a complaint regarding your conduct, as well as an email from EFF Australia supporting the allegations in the complaint.
> > 
> > The complainant believes that you have misrepresented yourself, misappropriated NCSG travel resources, and cast votes in our elections when you were ineligible to do so. The complaint has been referred to the NCSG Executive Committee for investigation and sanctions if appropriate.  I am citing below the statement of facts verbatim, as contaned in the complaint:
> > 
> > 
> >  * Statement of Facts *
> > 
> > As recently as last week, on the public record Mr Cake introduced himself as a representative of Electronic Frontiers Australia (EFA) at ICANN 66.
> > 
> > Mr Cake is listed as the representative of EFA on both the public NCSG members list and on the NPOC membership list. He includes this affiliation in his biography on the NPOC website. It has been on the basis of this affiliation that Mr Cake has been eligible to cast votes in NCSG elections as an organizational member and to utilize NPOC travel funding.
> > 
> > I understand that EFA is classed by the NCSG as a large organization and therefore he has received 4 votes to cast in elections, rather than 1 as an individual member would receive.
> > 
> > I have made contact with the Chair of EFA, Lyndsey Jackson, who has advised me that Mr Cake does not have authorization to represent EFA within NPOC, NCUC, NCSG, or ICANN more broadly, and has not since 2017. I have been told that he would be well aware of their protocols for representing EFA in external fora. I have provided Ms Jackson with the contact details for Maryam Bakoshi so that EFA may formally communicate this message to the EC.
> > 
> > As Mr Cake does not have the permission of EFA to represent them within NPOC, and has not since 2017, I believe that the votes he has cast in recent elections should not have been admitted (though they do not change the ultimate outcome of the election). His use of NPOC resources to travel to ICANN meetings, as an organizational member, when not authorized to represent said organization, strikes me as unacceptable and a misappropriation of NCSG resources.
> > 
> > I believe Mr Cake?s conduct here violates section 1.2.d of the NCSG charter, which says all NCSG members must act ?with honesty, sincerity, and integrity?, and threatens to bring the reputation of the NCSG into disrepute.
> > 
> > [end of quotation]
> > 
> > May I say that at a personal level, I am very sorry to be dealing with this unfortunate matter, but it is the duty of the Executive Committee of the NCSG, and the Chairs of the constituencies as appropriate, to investigate and take action if there is truth to these allegations.  We would appreciate hearing your response and proposed remedies, if any, at your earliest convenience.
> > 
> > Kind regards,
> > Stephanie Perrin
> > NCSG Chair
> > 
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec <https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec

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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Fri Nov 15 20:10:40 2019
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 18:10:40 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Complaint regarding your membership as a
 representative of EFF Australia
In-Reply-To: <6CC91361-44C4-4341-9387-6695838C448B@davecake.net>
References: <97b4ee86-ed92-6779-c3be-f928afca558c@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <6CC91361-44C4-4341-9387-6695838C448B@davecake.net>
Message-ID: <209b62e0-f295-2093-1fab-2ea51f6db14c@mail.utoronto.ca>

Dear David,

Thanks very much for getting in touch, and please be assured that no action has been taken other than to forward the complaint, and the communication from the head of EFA to Maryam Bakoshi, to the NCSG EC for consideration.  If you have any documentation to support the discussion on policy committee at EFA it would be most welcome, however, as you suggest, we will wait until you have clarified the matter with the EFA.  I hope that this can result in an email of clarification from the head of the organization.

In the meantime, we look forward to receiving your application as an individual member to NCSG/NCUC.

Kind regards,

Stephanie Perrin

NCSG Chair


On 2019-11-15 11:19, David Cake wrote:

I thank you for your communication.

Lyndsey Jackson and have substantially different understanding. I was clear in previous communication both Lyndsey personally and to the EFA board that I was still active within ICANN on behalf of EFA. While I am no longer a board member of EFA, I am a member of the EFA policy committee (in 2018 I was the vice-Chair), and eligible to represent ICANN within policy processes. In particular, I sent the EFA board a long message regarding representing EFA within ICANN processes in 2018, including that I received travel support.

I have explicitly been appointed by a representative of EFA in the past, it has never been withdrawn or changed, and the board has been informed of my work and role within ICANN sufficiently in the past that if they wished to change it, or learn in more detail, they had opportunity. I have certainly believed in good faith that the board understood that I was participating in ICANN processes on behalf of EFA, and it was discussed within the policy committee of EFA at several points. I believe that the NCSG EC should wait to clarify the outcome of EFA internal discussion before acting - I have in fact been given no opportunity as yet to discuss the issue internally.

While I will continue to discuss the issue with the EFA board, and they may wish to appoint a different representative, I do not believe they are able to do so retrospectively. I do not believe there is any lack of validity of my previous appointment. Any confusion I regret, and I was participating in ICANN processes with the sincere belief that the policy committee of EFA was aware of ICANN work.

Obviously if I no longer represent an organisation, I no longer am able to be active within NPOC. I will apply for individual membership of NCUC/MCSG.

Regards

David




On 15 Nov 2019, at 1:32 am, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca><mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:

I have received a complaint regarding your conduct, as well as an email from EFF Australia supporting the allegations in the complaint.

The complainant believes that you have misrepresented yourself, misappropriated NCSG travel resources, and cast votes in our elections when you were ineligible to do so. The complaint has been referred to the NCSG Executive Committee for investigation and sanctions if appropriate.  I am citing below the statement of facts verbatim, as contaned in the complaint:


 * Statement of Facts *

As recently as last week, on the public record Mr Cake introduced himself as a representative of Electronic Frontiers Australia (EFA) at ICANN 66.

Mr Cake is listed as the representative of EFA on both the public NCSG members list and on the NPOC membership list. He includes this affiliation in his biography on the NPOC website. It has been on the basis of this affiliation that Mr Cake has been eligible to cast votes in NCSG elections as an organizational member and to utilize NPOC travel funding.

I understand that EFA is classed by the NCSG as a large organization and therefore he has received 4 votes to cast in elections, rather than 1 as an individual member would receive.

I have made contact with the Chair of EFA, Lyndsey Jackson, who has advised me that Mr Cake does not have authorization to represent EFA within NPOC, NCUC, NCSG, or ICANN more broadly, and has not since 2017. I have been told that he would be well aware of their protocols for representing EFA in external fora. I have provided Ms Jackson with the contact details for Maryam Bakoshi so that EFA may formally communicate this message to the EC.

As Mr Cake does not have the permission of EFA to represent them within NPOC, and has not since 2017, I believe that the votes he has cast in recent elections should not have been admitted (though they do not change the ultimate outcome of the election). His use of NPOC resources to travel to ICANN meetings, as an organizational member, when not authorized to represent said organization, strikes me as unacceptable and a misappropriation of NCSG resources.

I believe Mr Cake?s conduct here violates section 1.2.d of the NCSG charter, which says all NCSG members must act ?with honesty, sincerity, and integrity?, and threatens to bring the reputation of the NCSG into disrepute.

[end of quotation]

May I say that at a personal level, I am very sorry to be dealing with this unfortunate matter, but it is the duty of the Executive Committee of the NCSG, and the Chairs of the constituencies as appropriate, to investigate and take action if there is truth to these allegations.  We would appreciate hearing your response and proposed remedies, if any, at your earliest convenience.

Kind regards,
Stephanie Perrin
NCSG Chair






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From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Fri Nov 15 21:57:50 2019
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Rapha=C3=ABl_Beauregard=2DLacroix?=)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 14:57:50 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Fwd: [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised
 representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia
In-Reply-To: <764ea705-2775-3cc9-577f-4b749683889e@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <122A287E-8E9F-46B6-8E56-52E7F815223E@icann.org>
 <EBB7127B-F73A-40BB-907F-BDC3EBAC5690@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAPZSw-om+EPUPxaRMYyEO0BT3TWf1Ji-wsmtibJybbzvO3tHxQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPZSw-qZuGZzuqn4AD+B7-1n8mQd=8dAOQL7Q21ydKTiSn81Cg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1058229766.200903.1573741148222@mail.yahoo.com>
 <c4fc0ddb-63ad-7d12-a9bf-2060c4caed8a@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <D5B2CDC9-8B75-478E-BC53-E4C9A9A06601@icann.org>
 <269f3f7f-e0fe-e3f7-96c2-94bbe714e10b@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <1496559131.647186.1573822628025@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CADirp9ST8yPXVVXuKKCHV-G9997RGYYZRjjWrpdmYiAKaztBtA@mail.gmail.com>
 <764ea705-2775-3cc9-577f-4b749683889e@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-px9jMj6wTTSy1tW=g-_gy3d=9xKYZ2VRTEk0F7eY5nbw@mail.gmail.com>

Apologies for jumping the gun, I realize now it was not very good team play
on my part.

Thank you for the procedure reminder Robin. I have a few Qs but these will
have to wait until I'm back home.

Best,

On Fri, Nov 15, 2019, 10:50 Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <
ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:

> Unfortunately, misrepresenting yourself in order to be a member, eligible
> for travel funding, and receiving that funding whilst being aware of the
> misrepresentation, amounts to fraud.  I am not accusing anyone of fraud at
> this point, we have only heard one side of the story.  However, as a
> responsible and accountable organization, we should in my view make the
> organization (i.e. ICANN Travel in this case) aware that we were unaware
> that one of our members was not eligible for membership/funding.  All in
> good time, of course.  We have yet to hear from David, and I am sincerely
> hoping this is not as bad as it looks.
>
> cheers Stephanie
> On 2019-11-15 08:52, Raoul Plommer wrote:
>
> I think removing membership from NPOC is punishment enough, to be honest
> and we already did that, at least on our list of members. The complaint is
> fairly public already. I think the next and perhaps final step would be to
> ask Lyndsey for a replacement to Dave, possibly two, (OR & AR).
>
> -Raoul
>
> On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 at 14:57, Juan Manuel Rojas via NCSG-EC <
> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone!
>> I've been gathering information to know what we should do. According to
>> our records David Cake is only member as Organizational Representative for
>> EFA, so we can let aside any thought about his individual membership. On
>> the other hand, I was reading both NPOC and NCSG charter and I found the
>> following:
>>
>> In NCSG charter says: *"The Official Representative must be formally
>> delegated authority to represent the Member Organization within NCSG
>> proceedings by an authorized officer or official of that Member
>> Organization"*, forward it mention about loss of membership:
>> *"In the event that an NCSG member in good standing believes that
>> membership is  held inappropriately by another organization or individual,
>> a request can be made  to the NCSG EC to review whether the disputed member
>> meets the criteria for  membership."* I have not found any other mention
>> to sanction or penalties on this regard.
>>
>> Otherwise, in NPOC charter under *9.3 Privileges and Limitations *says: "
>> *In the event the (NPOC) EC discovers that a member did not declare a
>> potential conflict of interest, its membership shall be suspended by the EC
>> for six (6) months."  *
>>
>> My two cents,
>>
>> JUAN MANUEL ROJAS P.
>> Presidente - AGEIA DENSI Colombia
>> NCSG EC - ICANN
>> Cluster Orinoco TIC member
>> Master IT candidate, Universidad de los Andes
>>
>> Cel. +57 3017435600
>> Twitter: @JmanuRojas <http://www.twitter.com/jmanurojas>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> El jueves, 14 de noviembre de 2019 05:17:06 p. m. GMT-5, Stephanie Perrin
>> <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> escribi?:
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> SP
>> On 2019-11-14 15:13, Maryam Bakoshi wrote:
>>
>> Hi Stephanie,
>>
>> 4 votes for NCSG, and NCUC; 1 for NPOC.
>>
>> ?
>> Many thanks,
>>
>>
>> *Maryam Bakoshi* | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
>> *ICANN* | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
>> *S*: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | *T*: ?+44 7846 471777?
>>
>> On 14 Nov 2019, at 17:12, Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC
>> <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>>
>> Just out of curiousity, I wonder how many votes David got?  4 for NPOC
>> and 4 for NCUC/  How does that work Maryam?
>>
>> cheers Steph
>>
>> PS I am sending David the complaint with the name removed.  I do not want
>> to receive a privacy complaint on top of everything else.
>> On 2019-11-14 09:19, Juan Manuel Rojas wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>> As NPOC Membership Chair I will ask her give us a name to change of their
>> representative in our Constituency.
>>
>> JUAN MANUEL ROJAS P.
>> Presidente - AGEIA DENSI Colombia
>> Membership Committee Chair. Non-for-Profit Operational Concerns
>> Constituency (NPOC) - ICANN
>> Cluster Orinoco TIC member
>> Master IT candidate, Universidad de los Andes
>>
>> Cel. +57 3017435600
>> Twitter: @JmanuRojas [twitter.com]
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.twitter.com_jmanurojas&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=l1drrYpbQPMTmL_auYui7kwT4YYKeEBn2RJo9xwGKIQ&e=>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> El mi?rcoles, 13 de noviembre de 2019 06:20:26 p. m. GMT-5, Rapha?l
>> Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>
>> <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> escribi?:
>>
>>
>> Ok yes so he is indeed listed as representative of EFA as well as an
>> "employee" of that organization.
>>
>> I think it would be important to know whether anyone represents EFA at
>> this point as far as NPOC is concerned however; otherwise we'll have a
>> technically inactive org.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 6:18 PM Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix <
>> rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Can't access members.ncsg.is [members.ncsg.is]
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__members.ncsg.is&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=MXYFch-rg2gPFFHMOPHzOyrE5sXRntSLOoY5XZLpl8E&e=>
>> just now and I am not informed of who he claims/ed to represent, but if he
>> indeed does not represent any organization then he must be an individual
>> member, with whatever ensues on the side of NPOC.
>>
>> So yes do contact him.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 6:09 PM U Of T via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I will reach out to her and explain how our membership system works.  If
>> you all agree, I will notify David immediately that he has to change his
>> membership status in NCSG to individual.  I guess that means dropping out
>> of NPOC?
>> Cheers Stephanie
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>> *From:* Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>
>> *Date:* November 13, 2019 at 16:43:35 EST
>> *To:* Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA>
>> *Subject:* *FW:  [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised
>> representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia*
>>
>> ?
>>
>> Hi Stephanie,
>>
>> FYI?
>>
>>
>>
>> Many thanks,
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> *Maryam Bakoshi* | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
>>
>> *ICANN* | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
>>
>> *S*: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | *T*: +44 7846 471777
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Lyndsey Jackson EFA Chair <chair at efa.org.au>
>> *Date: *Tuesday, 12 November 2019 at 04:58
>> *To: *Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>
>> *Cc: *Peter Tonoli <peter at metaverse.org>
>> *Subject: *[Ext] David Cake is not an authorised
>> representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Maryam Bakoshi,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have been contacted by a participant at ICANN in regards to a complaint
>> made against David Cake. While I do not wish to make any judgement on the
>> complaint of the process, one thing that is very concerning is that this
>> person is under the impression that David Cake has been participating on
>> behalf of Electronic Frontiers Australia as a representative to the
>> Not-for-Profit Operational Concerns Constituency of ICANN.
>>
>>
>>
>> David Cake in no way has authority from the EFA board to do this. David
>> was not renominated for the board in 2017. In 2018 he was renominated,
>> however shortly after the board unanimously voted to remove him. He does
>> not have any board approval to represent the organisation, he has not
>> advised the board of any involvement, and has not reported back to the
>> board at all. He has not been the Chair of EFA for the past two years, I
>> have. David is still involved in the EFA policy committee, however he holds
>> no position or authorisation, and his involvement over the past two years
>> has been marginal.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have emailed David to ask him to clarify and confirm that he is not
>> participating in ICANN as a representative of EFA. If he is, it would be a
>> breach of the organisations rules. I have also asked that he emails you to
>> ask that this page be updated as a priority to remove the line about David
>> being the EFA chair https://npoc.org/leadership/ [npoc.org]
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__npoc.org_leadership_&d=DwMFAg&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=ffh87nniKwre858txaLC_xzlo3-mMLc56UX_BYV5_t8&s=D0h6EhNXmHAmX9WSK0laGwEoUsZYkSeW-7yaY_W0vDA&e=> -
>> I do expect him to do this, however would like this updated as a matter of
>> priority regardless.
>>
>>
>>
>> I would also request that if there are any other materials, online
>> profiles, or places where his representation of EFA is stated that that too
>> be updated with the EFA reference removed.
>>
>>
>>
>> I realise post ICANN it's probably a busy time for you, but when
>> appropriate I would very much value you being in touch to advise on how EFA
>> can continue appropriate representation in ICANN going forward.
>>
>>
>>
>> Many thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> Lyndsey
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Peter Tonoli EFA Vice Chair cc'd into correspondence
>>
>> --
>>
>>   Lyndsey Jackson | Chair
>>
>>   Electronic Frontiers Australia
>>
>>   chair at efa.org.au
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec [lists.ncsg.is]
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.ncsg.is_mailman_listinfo_ncsg-2Dec&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=dNq8j3DyLW98Owbp1sLozJlXMzWQ_H_TcuNJ14q9B7Y&e=>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec [lists.ncsg.is]
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.ncsg.is_mailman_listinfo_ncsg-2Dec&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=dNq8j3DyLW98Owbp1sLozJlXMzWQ_H_TcuNJ14q9B7Y&e=>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.ncsg.is_mailman_listinfo_ncsg-2Dec&d=DwIGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=dNq8j3DyLW98Owbp1sLozJlXMzWQ_H_TcuNJ14q9B7Y&e=
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>
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From joankerr at fbsc.org  Fri Nov 15 22:29:08 2019
From: joankerr at fbsc.org (Joan Kerr)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 15:29:08 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Fwd: [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised
 representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia
In-Reply-To: <CADirp9ST8yPXVVXuKKCHV-G9997RGYYZRjjWrpdmYiAKaztBtA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <122A287E-8E9F-46B6-8E56-52E7F815223E@icann.org>
 <EBB7127B-F73A-40BB-907F-BDC3EBAC5690@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAPZSw-om+EPUPxaRMYyEO0BT3TWf1Ji-wsmtibJybbzvO3tHxQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPZSw-qZuGZzuqn4AD+B7-1n8mQd=8dAOQL7Q21ydKTiSn81Cg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1058229766.200903.1573741148222@mail.yahoo.com>
 <c4fc0ddb-63ad-7d12-a9bf-2060c4caed8a@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <D5B2CDC9-8B75-478E-BC53-E4C9A9A06601@icann.org>
 <269f3f7f-e0fe-e3f7-96c2-94bbe714e10b@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <1496559131.647186.1573822628025@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CADirp9ST8yPXVVXuKKCHV-G9997RGYYZRjjWrpdmYiAKaztBtA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADwmshLZ3Ea2Od6F3QA=PatMNpDctW4ia_rjCvUxY1bxrs1Cxg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Raoul,

I spoke with Stephanie yesterday and agreed that a message to David
apprising him of the complaint and let him have chance to respond.   I
believe he has responded, so we will have to be patient and see what the
situation is with EFA.

In light of this though, I think NPOC needs to have a two step verification
process, first the approval through NCSG and then NPOC sends an email to
the Board outlining the roles and responsibilities of a Organization
Representative.  I'll discuss this with Juan further.
Regards,

On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 8:53 AM Raoul Plommer <plommer at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think removing membership from NPOC is punishment enough, to be honest
> and we already did that, at least on our list of members. The complaint is
> fairly public already. I think the next and perhaps final step would be to
> ask Lyndsey for a replacement to Dave, possibly two, (OR & AR).
>
> -Raoul
>
> On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 at 14:57, Juan Manuel Rojas via NCSG-EC <
> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone!
>> I've been gathering information to know what we should do. According to
>> our records David Cake is only member as Organizational Representative for
>> EFA, so we can let aside any thought about his individual membership. On
>> the other hand, I was reading both NPOC and NCSG charter and I found the
>> following:
>>
>> In NCSG charter says: *"The Official Representative must be formally
>> delegated authority to represent the Member Organization within NCSG
>> proceedings by an authorized officer or official of that Member
>> Organization"*, forward it mention about loss of membership:
>> *"In the event that an NCSG member in good standing believes that
>> membership is  held inappropriately by another organization or individual,
>> a request can be made  to the NCSG EC to review whether the disputed member
>> meets the criteria for  membership."* I have not found any other mention
>> to sanction or penalties on this regard.
>>
>> Otherwise, in NPOC charter under *9.3 Privileges and Limitations *says: "
>> *In the event the (NPOC) EC discovers that a member did not declare a
>> potential conflict of interest, its membership shall be suspended by the EC
>> for six (6) months." *
>>
>> My two cents,
>>
>> JUAN MANUEL ROJAS P.
>> Presidente - AGEIA DENSI Colombia
>> NCSG EC - ICANN
>> Cluster Orinoco TIC member
>> Master IT candidate, Universidad de los Andes
>>
>> Cel. +57 3017435600
>> Twitter: @JmanuRojas <http://www.twitter.com/jmanurojas>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> El jueves, 14 de noviembre de 2019 05:17:06 p. m. GMT-5, Stephanie Perrin
>> <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> escribi?:
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> SP
>> On 2019-11-14 15:13, Maryam Bakoshi wrote:
>>
>> Hi Stephanie,
>>
>> 4 votes for NCSG, and NCUC; 1 for NPOC.
>>
>> ?
>> Many thanks,
>>
>>
>> *Maryam Bakoshi* | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
>> *ICANN* | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
>> *S*: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | *T*: ?+44 7846 471777?
>>
>> On 14 Nov 2019, at 17:12, Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC
>> <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>>
>> Just out of curiousity, I wonder how many votes David got?  4 for NPOC
>> and 4 for NCUC/  How does that work Maryam?
>>
>> cheers Steph
>>
>> PS I am sending David the complaint with the name removed.  I do not want
>> to receive a privacy complaint on top of everything else.
>> On 2019-11-14 09:19, Juan Manuel Rojas wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>> As NPOC Membership Chair I will ask her give us a name to change of their
>> representative in our Constituency.
>>
>> JUAN MANUEL ROJAS P.
>> Presidente - AGEIA DENSI Colombia
>> Membership Committee Chair. Non-for-Profit Operational Concerns
>> Constituency (NPOC) - ICANN
>> Cluster Orinoco TIC member
>> Master IT candidate, Universidad de los Andes
>>
>> Cel. +57 3017435600
>> Twitter: @JmanuRojas [twitter.com]
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.twitter.com_jmanurojas&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=l1drrYpbQPMTmL_auYui7kwT4YYKeEBn2RJo9xwGKIQ&e=>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> El mi?rcoles, 13 de noviembre de 2019 06:20:26 p. m. GMT-5, Rapha?l
>> Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>
>> <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> escribi?:
>>
>>
>> Ok yes so he is indeed listed as representative of EFA as well as an
>> "employee" of that organization.
>>
>> I think it would be important to know whether anyone represents EFA at
>> this point as far as NPOC is concerned however; otherwise we'll have a
>> technically inactive org.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 6:18 PM Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix <
>> rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Can't access members.ncsg.is [members.ncsg.is]
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__members.ncsg.is&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=MXYFch-rg2gPFFHMOPHzOyrE5sXRntSLOoY5XZLpl8E&e=>
>> just now and I am not informed of who he claims/ed to represent, but if he
>> indeed does not represent any organization then he must be an individual
>> member, with whatever ensues on the side of NPOC.
>>
>> So yes do contact him.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 6:09 PM U Of T via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I will reach out to her and explain how our membership system works.  If
>> you all agree, I will notify David immediately that he has to change his
>> membership status in NCSG to individual.  I guess that means dropping out
>> of NPOC?
>> Cheers Stephanie
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>> *From:* Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>
>> *Date:* November 13, 2019 at 16:43:35 EST
>> *To:* Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA>
>> *Subject:* *FW:  [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised
>> representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia*
>>
>> ?
>>
>> Hi Stephanie,
>>
>> FYI?
>>
>>
>>
>> Many thanks,
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> *Maryam Bakoshi* | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
>>
>> *ICANN* | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
>>
>> *S*: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | *T*: +44 7846 471777
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Lyndsey Jackson EFA Chair <chair at efa.org.au>
>> *Date: *Tuesday, 12 November 2019 at 04:58
>> *To: *Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>
>> *Cc: *Peter Tonoli <peter at metaverse.org>
>> *Subject: *[Ext] David Cake is not an authorised
>> representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Maryam Bakoshi,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have been contacted by a participant at ICANN in regards to a complaint
>> made against David Cake. While I do not wish to make any judgement on the
>> complaint of the process, one thing that is very concerning is that this
>> person is under the impression that David Cake has been participating on
>> behalf of Electronic Frontiers Australia as a representative to the
>> Not-for-Profit Operational Concerns Constituency of ICANN.
>>
>>
>>
>> David Cake in no way has authority from the EFA board to do this. David
>> was not renominated for the board in 2017. In 2018 he was renominated,
>> however shortly after the board unanimously voted to remove him. He does
>> not have any board approval to represent the organisation, he has not
>> advised the board of any involvement, and has not reported back to the
>> board at all. He has not been the Chair of EFA for the past two years, I
>> have. David is still involved in the EFA policy committee, however he holds
>> no position or authorisation, and his involvement over the past two years
>> has been marginal.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have emailed David to ask him to clarify and confirm that he is not
>> participating in ICANN as a representative of EFA. If he is, it would be a
>> breach of the organisations rules. I have also asked that he emails you to
>> ask that this page be updated as a priority to remove the line about David
>> being the EFA chair https://npoc.org/leadership/ [npoc.org]
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__npoc.org_leadership_&d=DwMFAg&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=ffh87nniKwre858txaLC_xzlo3-mMLc56UX_BYV5_t8&s=D0h6EhNXmHAmX9WSK0laGwEoUsZYkSeW-7yaY_W0vDA&e=> -
>> I do expect him to do this, however would like this updated as a matter of
>> priority regardless.
>>
>>
>>
>> I would also request that if there are any other materials, online
>> profiles, or places where his representation of EFA is stated that that too
>> be updated with the EFA reference removed.
>>
>>
>>
>> I realise post ICANN it's probably a busy time for you, but when
>> appropriate I would very much value you being in touch to advise on how EFA
>> can continue appropriate representation in ICANN going forward.
>>
>>
>>
>> Many thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> Lyndsey
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Peter Tonoli EFA Vice Chair cc'd into correspondence
>>
>> --
>>
>>   Lyndsey Jackson | Chair
>>
>>   Electronic Frontiers Australia
>>
>>   chair at efa.org.au
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec [lists.ncsg.is]
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.ncsg.is_mailman_listinfo_ncsg-2Dec&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=dNq8j3DyLW98Owbp1sLozJlXMzWQ_H_TcuNJ14q9B7Y&e=>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec [lists.ncsg.is]
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.ncsg.is_mailman_listinfo_ncsg-2Dec&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=dNq8j3DyLW98Owbp1sLozJlXMzWQ_H_TcuNJ14q9B7Y&e=>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.ncsg.is_mailman_listinfo_ncsg-2Dec&d=DwIGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=dNq8j3DyLW98Owbp1sLozJlXMzWQ_H_TcuNJ14q9B7Y&e=
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>
>

-- 

Joan Kerr, Entrepreneur, Artist, Humanitarian

_____________________________________

Chair, Climate Smart Victory Garden Team

Chair, ICANN, Not for Profit Operations Constituency

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From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Fri Nov 15 23:19:37 2019
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Rapha=C3=ABl_Beauregard=2DLacroix?=)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 16:19:37 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Fwd: [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised
 representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-px9jMj6wTTSy1tW=g-_gy3d=9xKYZ2VRTEk0F7eY5nbw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <122A287E-8E9F-46B6-8E56-52E7F815223E@icann.org>
 <EBB7127B-F73A-40BB-907F-BDC3EBAC5690@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAPZSw-om+EPUPxaRMYyEO0BT3TWf1Ji-wsmtibJybbzvO3tHxQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPZSw-qZuGZzuqn4AD+B7-1n8mQd=8dAOQL7Q21ydKTiSn81Cg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1058229766.200903.1573741148222@mail.yahoo.com>
 <c4fc0ddb-63ad-7d12-a9bf-2060c4caed8a@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <D5B2CDC9-8B75-478E-BC53-E4C9A9A06601@icann.org>
 <269f3f7f-e0fe-e3f7-96c2-94bbe714e10b@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <1496559131.647186.1573822628025@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CADirp9ST8yPXVVXuKKCHV-G9997RGYYZRjjWrpdmYiAKaztBtA@mail.gmail.com>
 <764ea705-2775-3cc9-577f-4b749683889e@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAPZSw-px9jMj6wTTSy1tW=g-_gy3d=9xKYZ2VRTEk0F7eY5nbw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-oiwwf1BqLija-F4aKzGNqLqNguLp3jQG78Yt-=guhnEQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all

Apologies again and specially to Stephanie. It does look like I'm talking
over you, and my good intentions do not excuse the appearances :(

First: as a representative of an org, was David a "member" to start with?
Recall how orgs are seemingly able to replace their reps just by sending a
notice; what's the difference between such cases and the present one? I'm
not quite familiar enough with organizational membership, so kindly chime
in. More generally, who are the members of NPOC? The orgs, or the reps? Or
both?

Second: I understand that David was not a member of NCUC, but a rep of an
org who was (and still is, I suppose) a member of NCUC? I'm referencing to
the fact that he was on the NCUC EC up to recently.

The way I understand it, the current "procedure" is not one to strip him of
membership, but more to remove him as the representative of an org upon the
request of the person we have listed as the manager/director of that org.
Whether EFA's "statutes" or anything else entitle that person to do that
frolm their internal perspective is another matter, but I do not think that
as a rule we should second guess these kinds of requests, lest we become
embroiled in a conflict completely external to NCSG. We should not be
mediating the conflict between David and EFA about who they appoint to
ICANN stuff and how they do it...

Maybe there are some procedure for that kind of situation somewhere in NPOC
when it come to org reps? But I cannot find for NCSG.

Now, without that representative position, he cannot participate in NCSG
through NPOC, but that's not because he's "kicked out" or anything. It's
more like an technical (not to use logical) outcome, if you see with I
mean. It's not meant as a punishment or some form of disciplinary action,
it's just the way it is?

There might be a legitimate misunderstanding between the parties involved
here, so I would think that his simple removal as a representative is
enough for now. And I dont think the EFA chair asked for anything else from
us either.

And thank you for your initiative Joan.

Best,




On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 2:57 PM Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix <
rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:

> Apologies for jumping the gun, I realize now it was not very good team
> play on my part.
>
> Thank you for the procedure reminder Robin. I have a few Qs but these will
> have to wait until I'm back home.
>
> Best,
>
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019, 10:50 Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <
> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately, misrepresenting yourself in order to be a member, eligible
>> for travel funding, and receiving that funding whilst being aware of the
>> misrepresentation, amounts to fraud.  I am not accusing anyone of fraud at
>> this point, we have only heard one side of the story.  However, as a
>> responsible and accountable organization, we should in my view make the
>> organization (i.e. ICANN Travel in this case) aware that we were unaware
>> that one of our members was not eligible for membership/funding.  All in
>> good time, of course.  We have yet to hear from David, and I am sincerely
>> hoping this is not as bad as it looks.
>>
>> cheers Stephanie
>> On 2019-11-15 08:52, Raoul Plommer wrote:
>>
>> I think removing membership from NPOC is punishment enough, to be honest
>> and we already did that, at least on our list of members. The complaint is
>> fairly public already. I think the next and perhaps final step would be to
>> ask Lyndsey for a replacement to Dave, possibly two, (OR & AR).
>>
>> -Raoul
>>
>> On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 at 14:57, Juan Manuel Rojas via NCSG-EC <
>> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi everyone!
>>> I've been gathering information to know what we should do. According to
>>> our records David Cake is only member as Organizational Representative for
>>> EFA, so we can let aside any thought about his individual membership. On
>>> the other hand, I was reading both NPOC and NCSG charter and I found the
>>> following:
>>>
>>> In NCSG charter says: *"The Official Representative must be formally
>>> delegated authority to represent the Member Organization within NCSG
>>> proceedings by an authorized officer or official of that Member
>>> Organization"*, forward it mention about loss of membership:
>>> *"In the event that an NCSG member in good standing believes that
>>> membership is  held inappropriately by another organization or individual,
>>> a request can be made  to the NCSG EC to review whether the disputed member
>>> meets the criteria for  membership."* I have not found any other
>>> mention to sanction or penalties on this regard.
>>>
>>> Otherwise, in NPOC charter under *9.3 Privileges and Limitations *says:
>>> "
>>> *In the event the (NPOC) EC discovers that a member did not declare a
>>> potential conflict of interest, its membership shall be suspended by the EC
>>> for six (6) months."  *
>>>
>>> My two cents,
>>>
>>> JUAN MANUEL ROJAS P.
>>> Presidente - AGEIA DENSI Colombia
>>> NCSG EC - ICANN
>>> Cluster Orinoco TIC member
>>> Master IT candidate, Universidad de los Andes
>>>
>>> Cel. +57 3017435600
>>> Twitter: @JmanuRojas <http://www.twitter.com/jmanurojas>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> El jueves, 14 de noviembre de 2019 05:17:06 p. m. GMT-5, Stephanie
>>> Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> escribi?:
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> SP
>>> On 2019-11-14 15:13, Maryam Bakoshi wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Stephanie,
>>>
>>> 4 votes for NCSG, and NCUC; 1 for NPOC.
>>>
>>> ?
>>> Many thanks,
>>>
>>>
>>> *Maryam Bakoshi* | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
>>> *ICANN* | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
>>> *S*: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | *T*: ?+44 7846 471777?
>>>
>>> On 14 Nov 2019, at 17:12, Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC
>>> <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?
>>>
>>> Just out of curiousity, I wonder how many votes David got?  4 for NPOC
>>> and 4 for NCUC/  How does that work Maryam?
>>>
>>> cheers Steph
>>>
>>> PS I am sending David the complaint with the name removed.  I do not
>>> want to receive a privacy complaint on top of everything else.
>>> On 2019-11-14 09:19, Juan Manuel Rojas wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> As NPOC Membership Chair I will ask her give us a name to change of
>>> their representative in our Constituency.
>>>
>>> JUAN MANUEL ROJAS P.
>>> Presidente - AGEIA DENSI Colombia
>>> Membership Committee Chair. Non-for-Profit Operational Concerns
>>> Constituency (NPOC) - ICANN
>>> Cluster Orinoco TIC member
>>> Master IT candidate, Universidad de los Andes
>>>
>>> Cel. +57 3017435600
>>> Twitter: @JmanuRojas [twitter.com]
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.twitter.com_jmanurojas&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=l1drrYpbQPMTmL_auYui7kwT4YYKeEBn2RJo9xwGKIQ&e=>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> El mi?rcoles, 13 de noviembre de 2019 06:20:26 p. m. GMT-5, Rapha?l
>>> Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>
>>> <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> escribi?:
>>>
>>>
>>> Ok yes so he is indeed listed as representative of EFA as well as an
>>> "employee" of that organization.
>>>
>>> I think it would be important to know whether anyone represents EFA at
>>> this point as far as NPOC is concerned however; otherwise we'll have a
>>> technically inactive org.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 6:18 PM Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix <
>>> rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Can't access members.ncsg.is [members.ncsg.is]
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__members.ncsg.is&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=MXYFch-rg2gPFFHMOPHzOyrE5sXRntSLOoY5XZLpl8E&e=>
>>> just now and I am not informed of who he claims/ed to represent, but if he
>>> indeed does not represent any organization then he must be an individual
>>> member, with whatever ensues on the side of NPOC.
>>>
>>> So yes do contact him.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 6:09 PM U Of T via NCSG-EC <
>>> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>>
>>> I will reach out to her and explain how our membership system works.  If
>>> you all agree, I will notify David immediately that he has to change his
>>> membership status in NCSG to individual.  I guess that means dropping out
>>> of NPOC?
>>> Cheers Stephanie
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>
>>> *From:* Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>
>>> *Date:* November 13, 2019 at 16:43:35 EST
>>> *To:* Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA>
>>> *Subject:* *FW:  [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised
>>> representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia*
>>>
>>> ?
>>>
>>> Hi Stephanie,
>>>
>>> FYI?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Many thanks,
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Maryam Bakoshi* | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
>>>
>>> *ICANN* | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
>>>
>>> *S*: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | *T*: +44 7846 471777
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From: *Lyndsey Jackson EFA Chair <chair at efa.org.au>
>>> *Date: *Tuesday, 12 November 2019 at 04:58
>>> *To: *Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>
>>> *Cc: *Peter Tonoli <peter at metaverse.org>
>>> *Subject: *[Ext] David Cake is not an authorised
>>> representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Maryam Bakoshi,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have been contacted by a participant at ICANN in regards to a
>>> complaint made against David Cake. While I do not wish to make any
>>> judgement on the complaint of the process, one thing that is very
>>> concerning is that this person is under the impression that David Cake has
>>> been participating on behalf of Electronic Frontiers Australia as a
>>> representative to the Not-for-Profit Operational Concerns Constituency of
>>> ICANN.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> David Cake in no way has authority from the EFA board to do this. David
>>> was not renominated for the board in 2017. In 2018 he was renominated,
>>> however shortly after the board unanimously voted to remove him. He does
>>> not have any board approval to represent the organisation, he has not
>>> advised the board of any involvement, and has not reported back to the
>>> board at all. He has not been the Chair of EFA for the past two years, I
>>> have. David is still involved in the EFA policy committee, however he holds
>>> no position or authorisation, and his involvement over the past two years
>>> has been marginal.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have emailed David to ask him to clarify and confirm that he is not
>>> participating in ICANN as a representative of EFA. If he is, it would be a
>>> breach of the organisations rules. I have also asked that he emails you to
>>> ask that this page be updated as a priority to remove the line about David
>>> being the EFA chair https://npoc.org/leadership/ [npoc.org]
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__npoc.org_leadership_&d=DwMFAg&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=ffh87nniKwre858txaLC_xzlo3-mMLc56UX_BYV5_t8&s=D0h6EhNXmHAmX9WSK0laGwEoUsZYkSeW-7yaY_W0vDA&e=> -
>>> I do expect him to do this, however would like this updated as a matter of
>>> priority regardless.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I would also request that if there are any other materials, online
>>> profiles, or places where his representation of EFA is stated that that too
>>> be updated with the EFA reference removed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I realise post ICANN it's probably a busy time for you, but when
>>> appropriate I would very much value you being in touch to advise on how EFA
>>> can continue appropriate representation in ICANN going forward.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Many thanks,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Lyndsey
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Peter Tonoli EFA Vice Chair cc'd into correspondence
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>   Lyndsey Jackson | Chair
>>>
>>>   Electronic Frontiers Australia
>>>
>>>   chair at efa.org.au
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec [lists.ncsg.is]
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.ncsg.is_mailman_listinfo_ncsg-2Dec&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=dNq8j3DyLW98Owbp1sLozJlXMzWQ_H_TcuNJ14q9B7Y&e=>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec [lists.ncsg.is]
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.ncsg.is_mailman_listinfo_ncsg-2Dec&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=dNq8j3DyLW98Owbp1sLozJlXMzWQ_H_TcuNJ14q9B7Y&e=>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.ncsg.is_mailman_listinfo_ncsg-2Dec&d=DwIGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=dNq8j3DyLW98Owbp1sLozJlXMzWQ_H_TcuNJ14q9B7Y&e=
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>
>
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From plommer at gmail.com  Sat Nov 16 01:55:48 2019
From: plommer at gmail.com (Raoul Plommer)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2019 01:55:48 +0200
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Fwd: [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised
 representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-oiwwf1BqLija-F4aKzGNqLqNguLp3jQG78Yt-=guhnEQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <122A287E-8E9F-46B6-8E56-52E7F815223E@icann.org>
 <EBB7127B-F73A-40BB-907F-BDC3EBAC5690@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAPZSw-om+EPUPxaRMYyEO0BT3TWf1Ji-wsmtibJybbzvO3tHxQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPZSw-qZuGZzuqn4AD+B7-1n8mQd=8dAOQL7Q21ydKTiSn81Cg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1058229766.200903.1573741148222@mail.yahoo.com>
 <c4fc0ddb-63ad-7d12-a9bf-2060c4caed8a@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <D5B2CDC9-8B75-478E-BC53-E4C9A9A06601@icann.org>
 <269f3f7f-e0fe-e3f7-96c2-94bbe714e10b@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <1496559131.647186.1573822628025@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CADirp9ST8yPXVVXuKKCHV-G9997RGYYZRjjWrpdmYiAKaztBtA@mail.gmail.com>
 <764ea705-2775-3cc9-577f-4b749683889e@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAPZSw-px9jMj6wTTSy1tW=g-_gy3d=9xKYZ2VRTEk0F7eY5nbw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPZSw-oiwwf1BqLija-F4aKzGNqLqNguLp3jQG78Yt-=guhnEQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADirp9SFP4Q4XZdP2GSZPFxdD1Edav+xG=QFM3yxV3NMW1Ju=Q@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Unfortunately, misrepresenting yourself in order to be a member, eligible
> for travel funding, and receiving that funding whilst being aware of the
> misrepresentation, amounts to fraud.


Well, if you'd _really_ want to stretch it that far, perhaps. Spending your
energy on pursuing this... what looks vengeful from start, is not going to
be good for our community in any way. Since status is now up-to-date, what
else do you think we could realistically be gaining here? I mean, seriously?

The bottom line is, that I think Dave would've done exactly the same amount
of work for NPOC during his time with us, was he a legitimate OR of EFA or
not. If somebody should be pursuing misappropriated travel funds, it should
be NPOC and I don't honestly see a case for any fruitful pursuance here.

-Raoul

>
>

On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 at 23:19, Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix <
rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all
>
> Apologies again and specially to Stephanie. It does look like I'm talking
> over you, and my good intentions do not excuse the appearances :(
>
> First: as a representative of an org, was David a "member" to start with?
> Recall how orgs are seemingly able to replace their reps just by sending a
> notice; what's the difference between such cases and the present one? I'm
> not quite familiar enough with organizational membership, so kindly chime
> in. More generally, who are the members of NPOC? The orgs, or the reps? Or
> both?
>
> Second: I understand that David was not a member of NCUC, but a rep of an
> org who was (and still is, I suppose) a member of NCUC? I'm referencing to
> the fact that he was on the NCUC EC up to recently.
>
> The way I understand it, the current "procedure" is not one to strip him
> of membership, but more to remove him as the representative of an org upon
> the request of the person we have listed as the manager/director of that
> org. Whether EFA's "statutes" or anything else entitle that person to do
> that frolm their internal perspective is another matter, but I do not think
> that as a rule we should second guess these kinds of requests, lest we
> become embroiled in a conflict completely external to NCSG. We should not
> be mediating the conflict between David and EFA about who they appoint to
> ICANN stuff and how they do it...
>
> Maybe there are some procedure for that kind of situation somewhere in
> NPOC when it come to org reps? But I cannot find for NCSG.
>
> Now, without that representative position, he cannot participate in NCSG
> through NPOC, but that's not because he's "kicked out" or anything. It's
> more like an technical (not to use logical) outcome, if you see with I
> mean. It's not meant as a punishment or some form of disciplinary action,
> it's just the way it is?
>
> There might be a legitimate misunderstanding between the parties involved
> here, so I would think that his simple removal as a representative is
> enough for now. And I dont think the EFA chair asked for anything else from
> us either.
>
> And thank you for your initiative Joan.
>
> Best,
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 2:57 PM Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix <
> rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Apologies for jumping the gun, I realize now it was not very good team
>> play on my part.
>>
>> Thank you for the procedure reminder Robin. I have a few Qs but these
>> will have to wait until I'm back home.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019, 10:50 Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <
>> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>
>>> Unfortunately, misrepresenting yourself in order to be a member,
>>> eligible for travel funding, and receiving that funding whilst being aware
>>> of the misrepresentation, amounts to fraud.  I am not accusing anyone of
>>> fraud at this point, we have only heard one side of the story.  However, as
>>> a responsible and accountable organization, we should in my view make the
>>> organization (i.e. ICANN Travel in this case) aware that we were unaware
>>> that one of our members was not eligible for membership/funding.  All in
>>> good time, of course.  We have yet to hear from David, and I am sincerely
>>> hoping this is not as bad as it looks.
>>>
>>> cheers Stephanie
>>> On 2019-11-15 08:52, Raoul Plommer wrote:
>>>
>>> I think removing membership from NPOC is punishment enough, to be honest
>>> and we already did that, at least on our list of members. The complaint is
>>> fairly public already. I think the next and perhaps final step would be to
>>> ask Lyndsey for a replacement to Dave, possibly two, (OR & AR).
>>>
>>> -Raoul
>>>
>>> On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 at 14:57, Juan Manuel Rojas via NCSG-EC <
>>> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi everyone!
>>>> I've been gathering information to know what we should do. According to
>>>> our records David Cake is only member as Organizational Representative for
>>>> EFA, so we can let aside any thought about his individual membership. On
>>>> the other hand, I was reading both NPOC and NCSG charter and I found the
>>>> following:
>>>>
>>>> In NCSG charter says: *"The Official Representative must be formally
>>>> delegated authority to represent the Member Organization within NCSG
>>>> proceedings by an authorized officer or official of that Member
>>>> Organization"*, forward it mention about loss of membership:
>>>> *"In the event that an NCSG member in good standing believes that
>>>> membership is  held inappropriately by another organization or individual,
>>>> a request can be made  to the NCSG EC to review whether the disputed member
>>>> meets the criteria for  membership."* I have not found any other
>>>> mention to sanction or penalties on this regard.
>>>>
>>>> Otherwise, in NPOC charter under *9.3 Privileges and Limitations *says:
>>>> "
>>>> *In the event the (NPOC) EC discovers that a member did not declare a
>>>> potential conflict of interest, its membership shall be suspended by the EC
>>>> for six (6) months."  *
>>>>
>>>> My two cents,
>>>>
>>>> JUAN MANUEL ROJAS P.
>>>> Presidente - AGEIA DENSI Colombia
>>>> NCSG EC - ICANN
>>>> Cluster Orinoco TIC member
>>>> Master IT candidate, Universidad de los Andes
>>>>
>>>> Cel. +57 3017435600
>>>> Twitter: @JmanuRojas <http://www.twitter.com/jmanurojas>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> El jueves, 14 de noviembre de 2019 05:17:06 p. m. GMT-5, Stephanie
>>>> Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> escribi?:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> SP
>>>> On 2019-11-14 15:13, Maryam Bakoshi wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Stephanie,
>>>>
>>>> 4 votes for NCSG, and NCUC; 1 for NPOC.
>>>>
>>>> ?
>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Maryam Bakoshi* | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
>>>> *ICANN* | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
>>>> *S*: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | *T*: ?+44 7846 471777?
>>>>
>>>> On 14 Nov 2019, at 17:12, Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC
>>>> <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ?
>>>>
>>>> Just out of curiousity, I wonder how many votes David got?  4 for NPOC
>>>> and 4 for NCUC/  How does that work Maryam?
>>>>
>>>> cheers Steph
>>>>
>>>> PS I am sending David the complaint with the name removed.  I do not
>>>> want to receive a privacy complaint on top of everything else.
>>>> On 2019-11-14 09:19, Juan Manuel Rojas wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> As NPOC Membership Chair I will ask her give us a name to change of
>>>> their representative in our Constituency.
>>>>
>>>> JUAN MANUEL ROJAS P.
>>>> Presidente - AGEIA DENSI Colombia
>>>> Membership Committee Chair. Non-for-Profit Operational Concerns
>>>> Constituency (NPOC) - ICANN
>>>> Cluster Orinoco TIC member
>>>> Master IT candidate, Universidad de los Andes
>>>>
>>>> Cel. +57 3017435600
>>>> Twitter: @JmanuRojas [twitter.com]
>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.twitter.com_jmanurojas&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=l1drrYpbQPMTmL_auYui7kwT4YYKeEBn2RJo9xwGKIQ&e=>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> El mi?rcoles, 13 de noviembre de 2019 06:20:26 p. m. GMT-5, Rapha?l
>>>> Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>> <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> escribi?:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ok yes so he is indeed listed as representative of EFA as well as an
>>>> "employee" of that organization.
>>>>
>>>> I think it would be important to know whether anyone represents EFA at
>>>> this point as far as NPOC is concerned however; otherwise we'll have a
>>>> technically inactive org.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 6:18 PM Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix <
>>>> rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Can't access members.ncsg.is [members.ncsg.is]
>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__members.ncsg.is&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=MXYFch-rg2gPFFHMOPHzOyrE5sXRntSLOoY5XZLpl8E&e=>
>>>> just now and I am not informed of who he claims/ed to represent, but if he
>>>> indeed does not represent any organization then he must be an individual
>>>> member, with whatever ensues on the side of NPOC.
>>>>
>>>> So yes do contact him.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 6:09 PM U Of T via NCSG-EC <
>>>> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I will reach out to her and explain how our membership system works.
>>>> If you all agree, I will notify David immediately that he has to change his
>>>> membership status in NCSG to individual.  I guess that means dropping out
>>>> of NPOC?
>>>> Cheers Stephanie
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>
>>>> *Date:* November 13, 2019 at 16:43:35 EST
>>>> *To:* Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA>
>>>> *Subject:* *FW:  [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised
>>>> representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia*
>>>>
>>>> ?
>>>>
>>>> Hi Stephanie,
>>>>
>>>> FYI?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Maryam Bakoshi* | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
>>>>
>>>> *ICANN* | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
>>>>
>>>> *S*: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | *T*: +44 7846 471777
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From: *Lyndsey Jackson EFA Chair <chair at efa.org.au>
>>>> *Date: *Tuesday, 12 November 2019 at 04:58
>>>> *To: *Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>
>>>> *Cc: *Peter Tonoli <peter at metaverse.org>
>>>> *Subject: *[Ext] David Cake is not an authorised
>>>> representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear Maryam Bakoshi,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have been contacted by a participant at ICANN in regards to a
>>>> complaint made against David Cake. While I do not wish to make any
>>>> judgement on the complaint of the process, one thing that is very
>>>> concerning is that this person is under the impression that David Cake has
>>>> been participating on behalf of Electronic Frontiers Australia as a
>>>> representative to the Not-for-Profit Operational Concerns Constituency of
>>>> ICANN.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> David Cake in no way has authority from the EFA board to do this. David
>>>> was not renominated for the board in 2017. In 2018 he was renominated,
>>>> however shortly after the board unanimously voted to remove him. He does
>>>> not have any board approval to represent the organisation, he has not
>>>> advised the board of any involvement, and has not reported back to the
>>>> board at all. He has not been the Chair of EFA for the past two years, I
>>>> have. David is still involved in the EFA policy committee, however he holds
>>>> no position or authorisation, and his involvement over the past two years
>>>> has been marginal.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have emailed David to ask him to clarify and confirm that he is not
>>>> participating in ICANN as a representative of EFA. If he is, it would be a
>>>> breach of the organisations rules. I have also asked that he emails you to
>>>> ask that this page be updated as a priority to remove the line about David
>>>> being the EFA chair https://npoc.org/leadership/ [npoc.org]
>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__npoc.org_leadership_&d=DwMFAg&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=ffh87nniKwre858txaLC_xzlo3-mMLc56UX_BYV5_t8&s=D0h6EhNXmHAmX9WSK0laGwEoUsZYkSeW-7yaY_W0vDA&e=> -
>>>> I do expect him to do this, however would like this updated as a matter of
>>>> priority regardless.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would also request that if there are any other materials, online
>>>> profiles, or places where his representation of EFA is stated that that too
>>>> be updated with the EFA reference removed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I realise post ICANN it's probably a busy time for you, but when
>>>> appropriate I would very much value you being in touch to advise on how EFA
>>>> can continue appropriate representation in ICANN going forward.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lyndsey
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Peter Tonoli EFA Vice Chair cc'd into correspondence
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>   Lyndsey Jackson | Chair
>>>>
>>>>   Electronic Frontiers Australia
>>>>
>>>>   chair at efa.org.au
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec [lists.ncsg.is]
>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.ncsg.is_mailman_listinfo_ncsg-2Dec&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=dNq8j3DyLW98Owbp1sLozJlXMzWQ_H_TcuNJ14q9B7Y&e=>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec [lists.ncsg.is]
>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.ncsg.is_mailman_listinfo_ncsg-2Dec&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=dNq8j3DyLW98Owbp1sLozJlXMzWQ_H_TcuNJ14q9B7Y&e=>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>>
>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.ncsg.is_mailman_listinfo_ncsg-2Dec&d=DwIGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=dNq8j3DyLW98Owbp1sLozJlXMzWQ_H_TcuNJ14q9B7Y&e=
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
>>>
>>
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Sat Nov 16 07:09:30 2019
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2019 05:09:30 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Fwd: [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised
 representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia
In-Reply-To: <CADirp9SFP4Q4XZdP2GSZPFxdD1Edav+xG=QFM3yxV3NMW1Ju=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <122A287E-8E9F-46B6-8E56-52E7F815223E@icann.org>
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 <1058229766.200903.1573741148222@mail.yahoo.com>
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 <1496559131.647186.1573822628025@mail.yahoo.com>
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 <764ea705-2775-3cc9-577f-4b749683889e@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <CAPZSw-px9jMj6wTTSy1tW=g-_gy3d=9xKYZ2VRTEk0F7eY5nbw@mail.gmail.com>
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Message-ID: <053c9861-1427-a0fc-5adf-3403f84d0167@mail.utoronto.ca>

Were they ICANN's funds, or did you raise private funding to pay for his travel?. This is financial accountability 101....we have to investigate the use of funds by persons who may not have been legitimate members.  I am not ascribing anything at all to David at this time, we have yet to see how the two very different stories mesh.  But let us be clear, this is not "vengeful", it is our duty as an EC to investigate.

Stephanie

On 2019-11-15 18:55, Raoul Plommer wrote:
Unfortunately, misrepresenting yourself in order to be a member, eligible for travel funding, and receiving that funding whilst being aware of the misrepresentation, amounts to fraud.

Well, if you'd _really_ want to stretch it that far, perhaps. Spending your energy on pursuing this... what looks vengeful from start, is not going to be good for our community in any way. Since status is now up-to-date, what else do you think we could realistically be gaining here? I mean, seriously?

The bottom line is, that I think Dave would've done exactly the same amount of work for NPOC during his time with us, was he a legitimate OR of EFA or not. If somebody should be pursuing misappropriated travel funds, it should be NPOC and I don't honestly see a case for any fruitful pursuance here.

-Raoul


On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 at 23:19, Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com<mailto:rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi all

Apologies again and specially to Stephanie. It does look like I'm talking over you, and my good intentions do not excuse the appearances :(

First: as a representative of an org, was David a "member" to start with? Recall how orgs are seemingly able to replace their reps just by sending a notice; what's the difference between such cases and the present one? I'm not quite familiar enough with organizational membership, so kindly chime in. More generally, who are the members of NPOC? The orgs, or the reps? Or both?

Second: I understand that David was not a member of NCUC, but a rep of an org who was (and still is, I suppose) a member of NCUC? I'm referencing to the fact that he was on the NCUC EC up to recently.

The way I understand it, the current "procedure" is not one to strip him of membership, but more to remove him as the representative of an org upon the request of the person we have listed as the manager/director of that org. Whether EFA's "statutes" or anything else entitle that person to do that frolm their internal perspective is another matter, but I do not think that as a rule we should second guess these kinds of requests, lest we become embroiled in a conflict completely external to NCSG. We should not be mediating the conflict between David and EFA about who they appoint to ICANN stuff and how they do it...

Maybe there are some procedure for that kind of situation somewhere in NPOC when it come to org reps? But I cannot find for NCSG.

Now, without that representative position, he cannot participate in NCSG through NPOC, but that's not because he's "kicked out" or anything. It's more like an technical (not to use logical) outcome, if you see with I mean. It's not meant as a punishment or some form of disciplinary action, it's just the way it is?

There might be a legitimate misunderstanding between the parties involved here, so I would think that his simple removal as a representative is enough for now. And I dont think the EFA chair asked for anything else from us either.

And thank you for your initiative Joan.

Best,




On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 2:57 PM Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com<mailto:rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>> wrote:
Apologies for jumping the gun, I realize now it was not very good team play on my part.

Thank you for the procedure reminder Robin. I have a few Qs but these will have to wait until I'm back home.

Best,

On Fri, Nov 15, 2019, 10:50 Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:

Unfortunately, misrepresenting yourself in order to be a member, eligible for travel funding, and receiving that funding whilst being aware of the misrepresentation, amounts to fraud.  I am not accusing anyone of fraud at this point, we have only heard one side of the story.  However, as a responsible and accountable organization, we should in my view make the organization (i.e. ICANN Travel in this case) aware that we were unaware that one of our members was not eligible for membership/funding.  All in good time, of course.  We have yet to hear from David, and I am sincerely hoping this is not as bad as it looks.

cheers Stephanie

On 2019-11-15 08:52, Raoul Plommer wrote:
I think removing membership from NPOC is punishment enough, to be honest and we already did that, at least on our list of members. The complaint is fairly public already. I think the next and perhaps final step would be to ask Lyndsey for a replacement to Dave, possibly two, (OR & AR).

-Raoul

On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 at 14:57, Juan Manuel Rojas via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
Hi everyone!
I've been gathering information to know what we should do. According to our records David Cake is only member as Organizational Representative for EFA, so we can let aside any thought about his individual membership. On the other hand, I was reading both NPOC and NCSG charter and I found the following:

In NCSG charter says: "The Official Representative must be formally delegated authority to represent the Member Organization within NCSG  proceedings by an authorized officer or official of that Member Organization", forward it mention about loss of membership:
"In the event that an NCSG member in good standing believes that membership is  held inappropriately by another organization or individual, a request can be made  to the NCSG EC to review whether the disputed member meets the criteria for  membership." I have not found any other mention to sanction or penalties on this regard.

Otherwise, in NPOC charter under 9.3 Privileges and Limitations says: "In the event the (NPOC) EC discovers that a member did not declare a potential conflict of interest, its membership shall be suspended by the EC for six (6) months."

My two cents,

JUAN MANUEL ROJAS P.
Presidente - AGEIA DENSI Colombia
NCSG EC - ICANN
Cluster Orinoco TIC member
Master IT candidate, Universidad de los Andes

Cel. +57 3017435600
Twitter: @JmanuRojas<http://www.twitter.com/jmanurojas>








El jueves, 14 de noviembre de 2019 05:17:06 p. m. GMT-5, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca<mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> escribi?:



Thanks!

SP

On 2019-11-14 15:13, Maryam Bakoshi wrote:
Hi Stephanie,

4 votes for NCSG, and NCUC; 1 for NPOC.

?
Many thanks,


Maryam Bakoshi | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
ICANN | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
S: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | T: ?+44 7846 471777?

On 14 Nov 2019, at 17:12, Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is><mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:

?

Just out of curiousity, I wonder how many votes David got?  4 for NPOC and 4 for NCUC/  How does that work Maryam?

cheers Steph

PS I am sending David the complaint with the name removed.  I do not want to receive a privacy complaint on top of everything else.

On 2019-11-14 09:19, Juan Manuel Rojas wrote:
Hi all,
As NPOC Membership Chair I will ask her give us a name to change of their representative in our Constituency.

JUAN MANUEL ROJAS P.
Presidente - AGEIA DENSI Colombia
Membership Committee Chair. Non-for-Profit Operational Concerns Constituency (NPOC) - ICANN
Cluster Orinoco TIC member
Master IT candidate, Universidad de los Andes

Cel. +57 3017435600
Twitter: @JmanuRojas [twitter.com]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.twitter.com_jmanurojas&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=l1drrYpbQPMTmL_auYui7kwT4YYKeEBn2RJo9xwGKIQ&e=>








El mi?rcoles, 13 de noviembre de 2019 06:20:26 p. m. GMT-5, Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is><mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> escribi?:


Ok yes so he is indeed listed as representative of EFA as well as an "employee" of that organization.

I think it would be important to know whether anyone represents EFA at this point as far as NPOC is concerned however; otherwise we'll have a technically inactive org.

Best,

On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 6:18 PM Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com<mailto:rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>> wrote:
Can't access members.ncsg.is [members.ncsg.is]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__members.ncsg.is&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=MXYFch-rg2gPFFHMOPHzOyrE5sXRntSLOoY5XZLpl8E&e=> just now and I am not informed of who he claims/ed to represent, but if he indeed does not represent any organization then he must be an individual member, with whatever ensues on the side of NPOC.

So yes do contact him.

Best,

On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 6:09 PM U Of T via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
I will reach out to her and explain how our membership system works.  If you all agree, I will notify David immediately that he has to change his membership status in NCSG to individual.  I guess that means dropping out of NPOC?
Cheers Stephanie

Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

From: Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org<mailto:maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>>
Date: November 13, 2019 at 16:43:35 EST
To: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA<mailto:stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA>>
Subject: FW:  [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia

?

Hi Stephanie,

FYI?



Many thanks,

--



Maryam Bakoshi | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator

ICANN | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers

S: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | T: +44 7846 471777





From: Lyndsey Jackson EFA Chair <chair at efa.org.au<mailto:chair at efa.org.au>>
Date: Tuesday, 12 November 2019 at 04:58
To: Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org<mailto:maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>>
Cc: Peter Tonoli <peter at metaverse.org<mailto:peter at metaverse.org>>
Subject: [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia



Dear Maryam Bakoshi,



I have been contacted by a participant at ICANN in regards to a complaint made against David Cake. While I do not wish to make any judgement on the complaint of the process, one thing that is very concerning is that this person is under the impression that David Cake has been participating on behalf of Electronic Frontiers Australia as a representative to the Not-for-Profit Operational Concerns Constituency of ICANN.



David Cake in no way has authority from the EFA board to do this. David was not renominated for the board in 2017. In 2018 he was renominated, however shortly after the board unanimously voted to remove him. He does not have any board approval to represent the organisation, he has not advised the board of any involvement, and has not reported back to the board at all. He has not been the Chair of EFA for the past two years, I have. David is still involved in the EFA policy committee, however he holds no position or authorisation, and his involvement over the past two years has been marginal.



I have emailed David to ask him to clarify and confirm that he is not participating in ICANN as a representative of EFA. If he is, it would be a breach of the organisations rules. I have also asked that he emails you to ask that this page be updated as a priority to remove the line about David being the EFA chair https://npoc.org/leadership/ [npoc.org]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__npoc.org_leadership_&d=DwMFAg&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=ffh87nniKwre858txaLC_xzlo3-mMLc56UX_BYV5_t8&s=D0h6EhNXmHAmX9WSK0laGwEoUsZYkSeW-7yaY_W0vDA&e=> - I do expect him to do this, however would like this updated as a matter of priority regardless.



I would also request that if there are any other materials, online profiles, or places where his representation of EFA is stated that that too be updated with the EFA reference removed.



I realise post ICANN it's probably a busy time for you, but when appropriate I would very much value you being in touch to advise on how EFA can continue appropriate representation in ICANN going forward.



Many thanks,



Lyndsey





Peter Tonoli EFA Vice Chair cc'd into correspondence

--

  Lyndsey Jackson | Chair

  Electronic Frontiers Australia

  chair at efa.org.au<mailto:chair at efa.org.au>

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From robin at ipjustice.org  Sat Nov 16 19:26:32 2019
From: robin at ipjustice.org (Robin Gross)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2019 09:26:32 -0800
Subject: [NCSG-EC] [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised
 representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia
In-Reply-To: <CADirp9SFP4Q4XZdP2GSZPFxdD1Edav+xG=QFM3yxV3NMW1Ju=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <122A287E-8E9F-46B6-8E56-52E7F815223E@icann.org>
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Message-ID: <51DF1095-FF81-4E0F-9849-BE91349A3462@ipjustice.org>

I haven?t seen any evidence of misrepresentation here and am not willing to infer it based on this record.   

EFA had not sent us any notice of change in representation, nor has EFA sent David any notice of his removal from that position.  I don?t think it is appropriate to invite internal organizational struggles into our policy development work as is happening here.  

If EFA wishes to change their rep or leave altogether, they are free to do so.  If Dave wishes to transition to an individual membership as a result, I think that is appropriate as well.   

I agree with Raoul that I don?t see a case for pursuing anything further here.

Best,
Robin


> On Nov 15, 2019, at 3:55 PM, Raoul Plommer via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
> 
> Unfortunately, misrepresenting yourself in order to be a member, eligible for travel funding, and receiving that funding whilst being aware of the misrepresentation, amounts to fraud. 
> 
> Well, if you'd _really_ want to stretch it that far, perhaps. Spending your energy on pursuing this... what looks vengeful from start, is not going to be good for our community in any way. Since status is now up-to-date, what else do you think we could realistically be gaining here? I mean, seriously?
> 
> The bottom line is, that I think Dave would've done exactly the same amount of work for NPOC during his time with us, was he a legitimate OR of EFA or not. If somebody should be pursuing misappropriated travel funds, it should be NPOC and I don't honestly see a case for any fruitful pursuance here.
> 
> -Raoul
>  
> 
> On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 at 23:19, Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com <mailto:rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Hi all
> 
> Apologies again and specially to Stephanie. It does look like I'm talking over you, and my good intentions do not excuse the appearances :(
> 
> First: as a representative of an org, was David a "member" to start with? Recall how orgs are seemingly able to replace their reps just by sending a notice; what's the difference between such cases and the present one? I'm not quite familiar enough with organizational membership, so kindly chime in. More generally, who are the members of NPOC? The orgs, or the reps? Or both? 
> 
> Second: I understand that David was not a member of NCUC, but a rep of an org who was (and still is, I suppose) a member of NCUC? I'm referencing to the fact that he was on the NCUC EC up to recently.
> 
> The way I understand it, the current "procedure" is not one to strip him of membership, but more to remove him as the representative of an org upon the request of the person we have listed as the manager/director of that org. Whether EFA's "statutes" or anything else entitle that person to do that frolm their internal perspective is another matter, but I do not think that as a rule we should second guess these kinds of requests, lest we become embroiled in a conflict completely external to NCSG. We should not be mediating the conflict between David and EFA about who they appoint to ICANN stuff and how they do it... 
> 
> Maybe there are some procedure for that kind of situation somewhere in NPOC when it come to org reps? But I cannot find for NCSG. 
> 
> Now, without that representative position, he cannot participate in NCSG through NPOC, but that's not because he's "kicked out" or anything. It's more like an technical (not to use logical) outcome, if you see with I mean. It's not meant as a punishment or some form of disciplinary action, it's just the way it is? 
> 
> There might be a legitimate misunderstanding between the parties involved here, so I would think that his simple removal as a representative is enough for now. And I dont think the EFA chair asked for anything else from us either. 
> 
> And thank you for your initiative Joan. 
> 
> Best, 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 2:57 PM Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com <mailto:rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Apologies for jumping the gun, I realize now it was not very good team play on my part. 
> 
> Thank you for the procedure reminder Robin. I have a few Qs but these will have to wait until I'm back home. 
> 
> Best, 
> 
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019, 10:50 Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
> Unfortunately, misrepresenting yourself in order to be a member, eligible for travel funding, and receiving that funding whilst being aware of the misrepresentation, amounts to fraud.  I am not accusing anyone of fraud at this point, we have only heard one side of the story.  However, as a responsible and accountable organization, we should in my view make the organization (i.e. ICANN Travel in this case) aware that we were unaware that one of our members was not eligible for membership/funding.  All in good time, of course.  We have yet to hear from David, and I am sincerely hoping this is not as bad as it looks.
> 
> cheers Stephanie
> On 2019-11-15 08:52, Raoul Plommer wrote:
>> I think removing membership from NPOC is punishment enough, to be honest and we already did that, at least on our list of members. The complaint is fairly public already. I think the next and perhaps final step would be to ask Lyndsey for a replacement to Dave, possibly two, (OR & AR).
>> 
>> -Raoul
>> 
>> On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 at 14:57, Juan Manuel Rojas via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>> Hi everyone!
>> I've been gathering information to know what we should do. According to our records David Cake is only member as Organizational Representative for EFA, so we can let aside any thought about his individual membership. On the other hand, I was reading both NPOC and NCSG charter and I found the following:
>> 
>> In NCSG charter says: "The Official Representative must be formally delegated authority to represent the Member Organization within NCSG  proceedings by an authorized officer or official of that Member Organization", forward it mention about loss of membership:
>> "In the event that an NCSG member in good standing believes that membership is  held inappropriately by another organization or individual, a request can be made  to the NCSG EC to review whether the disputed member meets the criteria for  membership." I have not found any other mention to sanction or penalties on this regard.
>> 
>> Otherwise, in NPOC charter under 9.3 Privileges and Limitations says: "In the event the (NPOC) EC discovers that a member did not declare a potential conflict of interest, its membership shall be suspended by the EC for six (6) months." 
>> 
>> My two cents, 
>> 
>> JUAN MANUEL ROJAS P.
>> Presidente - AGEIA DENSI Colombia
>> NCSG EC - ICANN
>> Cluster Orinoco TIC member
>> Master IT candidate, Universidad de los Andes
>> 
>> Cel. +57 3017435600
>> Twitter: @JmanuRojas <http://www.twitter.com/jmanurojas>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>                                                
>> 
>> 
>> El jueves, 14 de noviembre de 2019 05:17:06 p. m. GMT-5, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> escribi?:
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> SP
>> On 2019-11-14 15:13, Maryam Bakoshi wrote:
>>> Hi Stephanie,
>>> 
>>> 4 votes for NCSG, and NCUC; 1 for NPOC. 
>>> 
>>> ?
>>> Many thanks,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Maryam Bakoshi | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator 
>>> ICANN | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers 
>>> S: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | T: ?+44 7846 471777?
>>> 
>>>> On 14 Nov 2019, at 17:12, Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?
>>>> Just out of curiousity, I wonder how many votes David got?  4 for NPOC and 4 for NCUC/  How does that work Maryam?
>>>> 
>>>> cheers Steph
>>>> 
>>>> PS I am sending David the complaint with the name removed.  I do not want to receive a privacy complaint on top of everything else.
>>>> On 2019-11-14 09:19, Juan Manuel Rojas wrote:
>>>>> Hi all, 
>>>>> As NPOC Membership Chair I will ask her give us a name to change of their representative in our Constituency.  
>>>>> 
>>>>> JUAN MANUEL ROJAS P.
>>>>> Presidente - AGEIA DENSI Colombia
>>>>> Membership Committee Chair. Non-for-Profit Operational Concerns Constituency (NPOC) - ICANN
>>>>> Cluster Orinoco TIC member
>>>>> Master IT candidate, Universidad de los Andes
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cel. +57 3017435600
>>>>> Twitter: @JmanuRojas [twitter.com] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.twitter.com_jmanurojas&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=l1drrYpbQPMTmL_auYui7kwT4YYKeEBn2RJo9xwGKIQ&e=>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>                                                
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> El mi?rcoles, 13 de noviembre de 2019 06:20:26 p. m. GMT-5, Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> escribi?:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ok yes so he is indeed listed as representative of EFA as well as an "employee" of that organization.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think it would be important to know whether anyone represents EFA at this point as far as NPOC is concerned however; otherwise we'll have a technically inactive org. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 6:18 PM Rapha?l Beauregard-Lacroix <rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com <mailto:rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>> Can't access members.ncsg.is [members.ncsg.is] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__members.ncsg.is&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=MXYFch-rg2gPFFHMOPHzOyrE5sXRntSLOoY5XZLpl8E&e=> just now and I am not informed of who he claims/ed to represent, but if he indeed does not represent any organization then he must be an individual member, with whatever ensues on the side of NPOC.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So yes do contact him.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best, 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 6:09 PM U Of T via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is>> wrote:
>>>>> I will reach out to her and explain how our membership system works.  If you all agree, I will notify David immediately that he has to change his membership status in NCSG to individual.  I guess that means dropping out of NPOC?
>>>>> Cheers Stephanie
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org <mailto:maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>>
>>>>>> Date: November 13, 2019 at 16:43:35 EST
>>>>>> To: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA <mailto:stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA>>
>>>>>> Subject: FW:  [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ?
>>>>>> Hi Stephanie,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> FYI?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Maryam Bakoshi | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ICANN | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> S: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | T: +44 7846 471777
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> From: Lyndsey Jackson EFA Chair <chair at efa.org.au <mailto:chair at efa.org.au>>
>>>>>> Date: Tuesday, 12 November 2019 at 04:58
>>>>>> To: Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org <mailto:maryam.bakoshi at icann.org>>
>>>>>> Cc: Peter Tonoli <peter at metaverse.org <mailto:peter at metaverse.org>>
>>>>>> Subject: [Ext] David Cake is not an authorised representative/contributor from Electronic Frontiers Australia
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Dear Maryam Bakoshi,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> I have been contacted by a participant at ICANN in regards to a complaint made against David Cake. While I do not wish to make any judgement on the complaint of the process, one thing that is very concerning is that this person is under the impression that David Cake has been participating on behalf of Electronic Frontiers Australia as a representative to the Not-for-Profit Operational Concerns Constituency of ICANN.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> David Cake in no way has authority from the EFA board to do this. David was not renominated for the board in 2017. In 2018 he was renominated, however shortly after the board unanimously voted to remove him. He does not have any board approval to represent the organisation, he has not advised the board of any involvement, and has not reported back to the board at all. He has not been the Chair of EFA for the past two years, I have. David is still involved in the EFA policy committee, however he holds no position or authorisation, and his involvement over the past two years has been marginal. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> I have emailed David to ask him to clarify and confirm that he is not participating in ICANN as a representative of EFA. If he is, it would be a breach of the organisations rules. I have also asked that he emails you to ask that this page be updated as a priority to remove the line about David being the EFA chair https://npoc.org/leadership/ [npoc.org] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__npoc.org_leadership_&d=DwMFAg&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=ffh87nniKwre858txaLC_xzlo3-mMLc56UX_BYV5_t8&s=D0h6EhNXmHAmX9WSK0laGwEoUsZYkSeW-7yaY_W0vDA&e=> - I do expect him to do this, however would like this updated as a matter of priority regardless. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> I would also request that if there are any other materials, online profiles, or places where his representation of EFA is stated that that too be updated with the EFA reference removed. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> I realise post ICANN it's probably a busy time for you, but when appropriate I would very much value you being in touch to advise on how EFA can continue appropriate representation in ICANN going forward. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Many thanks, 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Lyndsey
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Peter Tonoli EFA Vice Chair cc'd into correspondence 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   Lyndsey Jackson | Chair
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   Electronic Frontiers Australia
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   chair at efa.org.au <mailto:chair at efa.org.au>_______________________________________________
>>>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec [lists.ncsg.is] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.ncsg.is_mailman_listinfo_ncsg-2Dec&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=dNq8j3DyLW98Owbp1sLozJlXMzWQ_H_TcuNJ14q9B7Y&e=>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec [lists.ncsg.is] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.ncsg.is_mailman_listinfo_ncsg-2Dec&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=dNq8j3DyLW98Owbp1sLozJlXMzWQ_H_TcuNJ14q9B7Y&e=>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
>>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is <mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.ncsg.is_mailman_listinfo_ncsg-2Dec&d=DwIGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=dNq8j3DyLW98Owbp1sLozJlXMzWQ_H_TcuNJ14q9B7Y&e= <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.ncsg.is_mailman_listinfo_ncsg-2Dec&d=DwIGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=1A9IIOkJia11FXDmJ1R4Jn7wGT4ExHiVuBF89mvNt_Q&m=WerCxVkqVxuQVsVPYCQ3y4n0uwenza8YMUkeFqrW2OM&s=dNq8j3DyLW98Owbp1sLozJlXMzWQ_H_TcuNJ14q9B7Y&e=> 
>> _______________________________________________
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> _______________________________________________
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From robin at ipjustice.org  Mon Nov 18 00:09:25 2019
From: robin at ipjustice.org (Robin Gross)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2019 14:09:25 -0800
Subject: [NCSG-EC] discussion about the appropriateness of directly
 forwarding complaints about our members onto this public list
Message-ID: <6491AF6E-AE4F-48E8-A34E-50CFACA49BD6@ipjustice.org>

All,

I?d like to suggest that we NOT directly forward the sensitive complaints that we?ve started receiving lately on to this publicly archived list with zero redactions or changes to the subject line, etc.
 
This seems like a serious privacy violation to me and rather negligent in terms of protecting our members? reputations.   

We need to set up some ground rules about handling sensitive information so we can be as transparent as possible without disregarding our members? right to a fair process before we take any of these discussions further.

Here is the NCSG Operating Procedure on this specific point:
C. ?EC Decision Making Over Membership Reviews <https://community.icann.org/m/view-rendered-page.action?abstractPageId=88573383#>
1.  All decisions, communications, and evaluations made by the NCSG-EC regarding termination shall be done transparently to the extent reasonably possible (including publicly archived online record of the discussions and any decisions reached). Notwithstanding the foregoing, certain redactions and other protections for personal privacy and other legitimate concerns shall be invoked, where appropriate, in the publication or dissemination of this information at the discretion of the Chair.

Thanks,
Robin
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Mon Nov 18 00:47:56 2019
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (U Of T)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2019 17:47:56 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-EC] discussion about the appropriateness of directly
 forwarding complaints about our members onto this public list
In-Reply-To: <6491AF6E-AE4F-48E8-A34E-50CFACA49BD6@ipjustice.org>
References: <6491AF6E-AE4F-48E8-A34E-50CFACA49BD6@ipjustice.org>
Message-ID: <AFDB9DF2-7794-4818-966F-E80148023EE9@mail.utoronto.ca>

Makes sense. Apologies if in your opinion I did not do an adequate job of striking the balance between privacy and transparency.  We perhaps need further guidelines.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 17, 2019, at 17:09, Robin Gross via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
> 
> ? All,
> 
> I?d like to suggest that we NOT directly forward the sensitive complaints that we?ve started receiving lately on to this publicly archived list with zero redactions or changes to the subject line, etc.
>  
> This seems like a serious privacy violation to me and rather negligent in terms of protecting our members? reputations.   
> 
> We need to set up some ground rules about handling sensitive information so we can be as transparent as possible without disregarding our members? right to a fair process before we take any of these discussions further.
> 
> Here is the NCSG Operating Procedure on this specific point:
> C.  EC Decision Making Over Membership Reviews
> 1.  All decisions, communications, and evaluations made by the NCSG-EC regarding termination shall be done transparently to the extent reasonably possible (including publicly archived online record of the discussions and any decisions reached). Notwithstanding the foregoing, certain redactions and other protections for personal privacy and other legitimate concerns shall be invoked, where appropriate, in the publication or dissemination of this information at the discretion of the Chair.
> 
> Thanks,
> Robin
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
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From dave at davecake.net  Mon Nov 18 05:16:26 2019
From: dave at davecake.net (David Cake)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2019 11:16:26 +0800
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Complaint regarding your membership as a
 representative of EFF Australia
In-Reply-To: <209b62e0-f295-2093-1fab-2ea51f6db14c@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <97b4ee86-ed92-6779-c3be-f928afca558c@mail.utoronto.ca>
 <6CC91361-44C4-4341-9387-6695838C448B@davecake.net>
 <209b62e0-f295-2093-1fab-2ea51f6db14c@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <D145F268-8C80-460E-B009-262531FA0C8C@davecake.net>

I have submitted my application as an individual user to NCSG and NCUC. 

NPOC will just have to manage without me. 

I intend to still participate as part of the Temp. Spec. team.

I will certainly forward relevant information from EFA when I have some. 

Regards

David 

> On 16 Nov 2019, at 2:10 am, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
> 
> Dear David,
> 
> Thanks very much for getting in touch, and please be assured that no action has been taken other than to forward the complaint, and the communication from the head of EFA to Maryam Bakoshi, to the NCSG EC for consideration.  If you have any documentation to support the discussion on policy committee at EFA it would be most welcome, however, as you suggest, we will wait until you have clarified the matter with the EFA.  I hope that this can result in an email of clarification from the head of the organization.
> 
> In the meantime, we look forward to receiving your application as an individual member to NCSG/NCUC.
> 
> Kind regards, 
> 
> Stephanie Perrin
> 
> NCSG Chair 
> 
> 
> 
> On 2019-11-15 11:19, David Cake wrote:
>> I thank you for your communication.
>> 
>> Lyndsey Jackson and have substantially different understanding. I was clear in previous communication both Lyndsey personally and to the EFA board that I was still active within ICANN on behalf of EFA. While I am no longer a board member of EFA, I am a member of the EFA policy committee (in 2018 I was the vice-Chair), and eligible to represent ICANN within policy processes. In particular, I sent the EFA board a long message regarding representing EFA within ICANN processes in 2018, including that I received travel support. 
>> 
>> I have explicitly been appointed by a representative of EFA in the past, it has never been withdrawn or changed, and the board has been informed of my work and role within ICANN sufficiently in the past that if they wished to change it, or learn in more detail, they had opportunity. I have certainly believed in good faith that the board understood that I was participating in ICANN processes on behalf of EFA, and it was discussed within the policy committee of EFA at several points. I believe that the NCSG EC should wait to clarify the outcome of EFA internal discussion before acting - I have in fact been given no opportunity as yet to discuss the issue internally. 
>> 
>> While I will continue to discuss the issue with the EFA board, and they may wish to appoint a different representative, I do not believe they are able to do so retrospectively. I do not believe there is any lack of validity of my previous appointment. Any confusion I regret, and I was participating in ICANN processes with the sincere belief that the policy committee of EFA was aware of ICANN work. 
>> 
>> Obviously if I no longer represent an organisation, I no longer am able to be active within NPOC. I will apply for individual membership of NCUC/MCSG. 
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> David
>> 
>> 
>>> On 15 Nov 2019, at 1:32 am, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have received a complaint regarding your conduct, as well as an email from EFF Australia supporting the allegations in the complaint.
>>> 
>>> The complainant believes that you have misrepresented yourself, misappropriated NCSG travel resources, and cast votes in our elections when you were ineligible to do so. The complaint has been referred to the NCSG Executive Committee for investigation and sanctions if appropriate.  I am citing below the statement of facts verbatim, as contaned in the complaint:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  * Statement of Facts *
>>> 
>>> As recently as last week, on the public record Mr Cake introduced himself as a representative of Electronic Frontiers Australia (EFA) at ICANN 66.
>>> 
>>> Mr Cake is listed as the representative of EFA on both the public NCSG members list and on the NPOC membership list. He includes this affiliation in his biography on the NPOC website. It has been on the basis of this affiliation that Mr Cake has been eligible to cast votes in NCSG elections as an organizational member and to utilize NPOC travel funding.
>>> 
>>> I understand that EFA is classed by the NCSG as a large organization and therefore he has received 4 votes to cast in elections, rather than 1 as an individual member would receive.
>>> 
>>> I have made contact with the Chair of EFA, Lyndsey Jackson, who has advised me that Mr Cake does not have authorization to represent EFA within NPOC, NCUC, NCSG, or ICANN more broadly, and has not since 2017. I have been told that he would be well aware of their protocols for representing EFA in external fora. I have provided Ms Jackson with the contact details for Maryam Bakoshi so that EFA may formally communicate this message to the EC.
>>> 
>>> As Mr Cake does not have the permission of EFA to represent them within NPOC, and has not since 2017, I believe that the votes he has cast in recent elections should not have been admitted (though they do not change the ultimate outcome of the election). His use of NPOC resources to travel to ICANN meetings, as an organizational member, when not authorized to represent said organization, strikes me as unacceptable and a misappropriation of NCSG resources.
>>> 
>>> I believe Mr Cake?s conduct here violates section 1.2.d of the NCSG charter, which says all NCSG members must act ?with honesty, sincerity, and integrity?, and threatens to bring the reputation of the NCSG into disrepute.
>>> 
>>> [end of quotation]
>>> 
>>> May I say that at a personal level, I am very sorry to be dealing with this unfortunate matter, but it is the duty of the Executive Committee of the NCSG, and the Chairs of the constituencies as appropriate, to investigate and take action if there is truth to these allegations.  We would appreciate hearing your response and proposed remedies, if any, at your earliest convenience.
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Stephanie Perrin
>>> NCSG Chair
>>> 
>>> 

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From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Wed Nov 20 00:14:06 2019
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2019 17:14:06 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Clarification re technical and admin expenses,
 past and future
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-qQvSdeRNw9WNdN-HDH+G5xMO6MBtB3VRy7xNLkqy=WkA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Joan, all,

As we discussed during the EC meeting in Montreal, I have updated the CIVI
shared google folder with all the invoices.

Joan, since you have requested access, I will share this with you off-list.
After looking at my emails, it appears it was shared at the time with Juan
and Raoul (as NPOC reps on NCSG EC). Bruna, as the functional equivalent of
Joan on the NCUC side, I'll also share it with you.

In addition, I would like to clarify the money point you raised, and take
the opportunity to lay out more clearly that matter for the benefit of
everyone on the EC as well.

Given the substantial fixed costs to getting Wapix on board, Farzaneh
requested last fall (and obtained) that NCUC and NPOC each chip in a part
of their yearly tech and administrative allocation money from ICANN. This
yearly allocation amounts to 9000 total for each of NCUC, NPOC and NCSG.
This was negotiated originally by Rafik. What the Cs chipped in was 4000
each out of their 9000. As Farzaneh she mentioned on her 16 Dec email to
the NCSG FC, "In total, we have 10500 USD (including NCUC allocated a
budget of 4000  and NPOC allocated a budget of 4000) remaining."

With that 10500, (so, by deduction, 2500 from NCSG), we (Steph fronted the
money, then ICANN paid out of allocation) paid the bill for the development
blocks (2430 for 30 hours), which we are put to good use, and then paid the
monthly 577 bill for maintenance, security, etc. until the end of the past
FY. Hence from December 2018 up to the end of the FY (30 June 2019), CIVI
expenses were split. You will forgive me Farzaneh but I don't remember
according to what fraction! If need be, either Maryam or Mary Wong would be
able to give an answer on that.

This "deal" ended with the end of the past FY; for the current FY, there is
no such deal and I do not see the need for one. At the NCSG level, we are
not contemplating any major project that would require it.

In that sense, from 1 July 2019 onwards, the two Cs and the SG are on their
own with their own 9000 as far as tech/admin expenses go.

I hope this clarifies the matters and let me know if you have any questions.

Have a nice day,
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Wed Nov 20 01:48:54 2019
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2019 23:48:54 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Clarification re technical and admin expenses,
 past and future
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-qQvSdeRNw9WNdN-HDH+G5xMO6MBtB3VRy7xNLkqy=WkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPZSw-qQvSdeRNw9WNdN-HDH+G5xMO6MBtB3VRy7xNLkqy=WkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b6b777f7-2615-5e28-2914-779ee8c5287e@mail.utoronto.ca>

Can we verify this with ICANN org before every body goes out and blows the mmoney?  at the moment I am owed a couple of thousand and I would sure like to get it soon....:-)

cheers steph

On 2019-11-19 17:14, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via NCSG-EC wrote:
Dear Joan, all,

As we discussed during the EC meeting in Montreal, I have updated the CIVI shared google folder with all the invoices.

Joan, since you have requested access, I will share this with you off-list. After looking at my emails, it appears it was shared at the time with Juan and Raoul (as NPOC reps on NCSG EC). Bruna, as the functional equivalent of Joan on the NCUC side, I'll also share it with you.

In addition, I would like to clarify the money point you raised, and take the opportunity to lay out more clearly that matter for the benefit of everyone on the EC as well.

Given the substantial fixed costs to getting Wapix on board, Farzaneh requested last fall (and obtained) that NCUC and NPOC each chip in a part of their yearly tech and administrative allocation money from ICANN. This yearly allocation amounts to 9000 total for each of NCUC, NPOC and NCSG. This was negotiated originally by Rafik. What the Cs chipped in was 4000 each out of their 9000. As Farzaneh she mentioned on her 16 Dec email to the NCSG FC, "In total, we have 10500 USD (including NCUC allocated a budget of 4000  and NPOC allocated a budget of 4000) remaining."

With that 10500, (so, by deduction, 2500 from NCSG), we (Steph fronted the money, then ICANN paid out of allocation) paid the bill for the development blocks (2430 for 30 hours), which we are put to good use, and then paid the monthly 577 bill for maintenance, security, etc. until the end of the past FY. Hence from December 2018 up to the end of the FY (30 June 2019), CIVI expenses were split. You will forgive me Farzaneh but I don't remember according to what fraction! If need be, either Maryam or Mary Wong would be able to give an answer on that.

This "deal" ended with the end of the past FY; for the current FY, there is no such deal and I do not see the need for one. At the NCSG level, we are not contemplating any major project that would require it.

In that sense, from 1 July 2019 onwards, the two Cs and the SG are on their own with their own 9000 as far as tech/admin expenses go.

I hope this clarifies the matters and let me know if you have any questions.

Have a nice day,



_______________________________________________
NCSG-EC mailing list
NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is<mailto:NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is>
https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec

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From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Thu Nov 21 18:11:06 2019
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2019 11:11:06 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Follow up from Montreal discussion on our CRM
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-onVP5ZUVZAYAUuKTqTg7qNo-skLRfr_a-4KjQuU4oKJw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

As a follow up on our discussion on CIVI and Wapix during the EC meeting:

I have done a bit of asking around and research regarding web development
costs generally and it seems that Wapix prices are still in what can be
considered "market"

Now there are some costs which are not clear and some numbers that did not
match, as we discussed. I still have to clarify that with Josh. But:

. 95$/hr for web development for a US/Canada based company is rather
standard; someone who begins would charge less, with the downside of added
risk.

. while 300 to 500$/month for "support and maintenance" is more on the high
side, it remains that CIVI hosting is not just like any other type of
backend. It requires someone who knows what theyre doing (i.e. who knows
how to handle that CRM). Still, I find their 99$ price point on hosting a
bit high. I'll see what can be done with that.

. I could find some public price points for CIVI monthly packages, in the
low 100's, but they did not include any dev time nor technical support, nor
backups, not virtual server for testing, nor ddos protection, etc. etc.

. Finally, we are looking at at least a few if not several thousands of
dollars in "discovery" fees for onboarding a new company or individual. We
were to pick an individual consultant, it might be more of a few rather
than several, but think about it this way: onboarding is at least 20 hours
of work, and most likely more than that, so minimally 2000$ - more likely
towards or above 3k.

. And maybe most importantly, subject to verification as Steph required, we
have a 9000$/year allocation by ICANN. If we don't use that money on these
services, it's just not spent, we don't get to bank it or use it on travel
support... Given that we have a good relationship with Wapix already, I
feel it would be a better investment of these monies to continue with them.


That being said, our current system is I would say barely usable, and I
heard all of you express dissatisfaction with it. I also share this feeling.

Now the thing is, even if Wapix ended up being slightly above market price,
I would not be in favour of spending my time working on switching right
away, for the following reasons:

I understand that a lot of things Wapix does are things we can do "on our
own," but I don't think that seeing things this way is sustainable. We
cannot rely on the fact that we would always have someone ready *and* able
to take care of these things (and as a matter of fact, we have no one
now).

In that sense, the only longer-term sustainable solution is to have someone
do it for us. Let's say we pick an individual consultant who begins and
will do it for cheap. Great, we just saved a few 1000's over a year. Then,
one year later, said person, because theyre skilled, finds a higher paying
job in a company. Now we've lost our consultant, must look again, pay
discovery fees again, etc. Do note that we faced a similar situation with
Wapix, were our main POC left the company and left us in a limbo for
several weeks. However we were spared new discovery fees once we got
someone assign to us.

In addition, if we only pay the monthly fee and don't buy any development
time now, we are paying for a system we are not satisfied with, while we
have the opportunity to spend to try and make it better.

So subject to discussion with Josh for the points that need clarification,
I would suggest that we go with the cheaper option which includes less
monthly tickets and less development time included, but that we also buy
more time. How much, I don't know; at least one 10 hour block.

Given that Maryam is the prime user of the system right now, I would take
it upon myself to work with her to make sure that every dev hour is spent
on something that makes her life more easy (and incidentally, ours). We
used the previous dev time to fix the really outstanding issues, get
ourselves a minimally workable front end, and to cover up for emergency
issues that arose with the elections. Now I think we can try to capitalize
on that and make some further progress.

And as an additional note, Wapix SLA is rather open; we need one month's
notice to terminate. So if any of you is willing to put the time and effort
required to come up with a workable and financially advantageous
switch-over plan, eventually asking for an ABR when the time comes and if
we need it, or cutting some deal with NPOC and NCUC for more money as we've
done in the past, it will always be time to use up our dev time and do the
switch. You are free and welcome to start working on that right away, I
have absolutely no problem with that, on the contrary. But for now, I would
rather use the time I can dedicate to that task and the money we have
available, in order to improve the systems we have rather than coming up
with another plan.

And to end, some numbers: 400/month*12 is 4800. That leaves us up to 30
hours of dev time we could buy before topping our allocation. Do note that
I'm not in favor of topping it, I'm just giving these out so we know what
ballpark we're playing in.

The final decision belongs to the EC collectively so I'm looking to hear
from you all on that. I will schedule a call with Josh early next week to
discuss our questions (those we discussed in Montreal) and anything else,
and will share the details on list so you can all join.

CCed techteam list for information purposes.

Have a nice day,
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From stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca  Thu Nov 21 19:59:38 2019
From: stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Perrin)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2019 17:59:38 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-EC] EC meeting re constituency review?
Message-ID: <1784a799-4058-e673-9ad1-fd292bda0fb5@mail.utoronto.ca>

Hi folks, I thought I would check in and see how we are doing on the constituency review.  Any progress?  I know many of you will be at IGF all next week, we had better make some progress soon on this matter.

Cheers Stephanie

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From robin at ipjustice.org  Fri Nov 22 23:56:43 2019
From: robin at ipjustice.org (Robin Gross)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2019 13:56:43 -0800
Subject: [NCSG-EC] EC meeting re constituency review?
In-Reply-To: <1784a799-4058-e673-9ad1-fd292bda0fb5@mail.utoronto.ca>
References: <1784a799-4058-e673-9ad1-fd292bda0fb5@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <7431DB90-1620-4989-AAD7-401EF27B5E28@ipjustice.org>

Thanks, Stephanie.  We had a very productive discussion in the Montreal NCSG-EC meeting about the upcoming constituency review process.  We went over the draft outlining the proposed process and criteria for the exercise, and there was great feedback about suggested improvements and places that needs more clarity.  See:
  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FuLOjI-g-HaaKtdc9CQ6DkDJ7rWMHfaLlOb63ZHdYm0/edit?usp=sharing

So I propose that I revise this draft accordingly in the next couple of weeks before we sign-on to the final plan and kick off the process.  Thank you.

Best,
Robin


> On Nov 21, 2019, at 9:59 AM, Stephanie Perrin via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
> 
> Hi folks, I thought I would check in and see how we are doing on the constituency review.  Any progress?  I know many of you will be at IGF all next week, we had better make some progress soon on this matter.
> 
> Cheers Stephanie
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NCSG-EC mailing list
> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec

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From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Sun Nov 24 05:41:57 2019
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2019 22:41:57 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Follow up from Montreal discussion on our CRM
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-onVP5ZUVZAYAUuKTqTg7qNo-skLRfr_a-4KjQuU4oKJw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPZSw-onVP5ZUVZAYAUuKTqTg7qNo-skLRfr_a-4KjQuU4oKJw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-qfpEbVpn5Vxh7r_9ce4Ru72nTp03dJJLP89VXj_a1EAg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

For those interested, I'll be talking to Josh from 1400 to 1500 EST on
Monday.

I'll give the call details to anyone interested in a separate email.

Have a nice evening,

On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 11:11 AM Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <
rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> As a follow up on our discussion on CIVI and Wapix during the EC meeting:
>
> I have done a bit of asking around and research regarding web development
> costs generally and it seems that Wapix prices are still in what can be
> considered "market"
>
> Now there are some costs which are not clear and some numbers that did not
> match, as we discussed. I still have to clarify that with Josh. But:
>
> . 95$/hr for web development for a US/Canada based company is rather
> standard; someone who begins would charge less, with the downside of added
> risk.
>
> . while 300 to 500$/month for "support and maintenance" is more on the
> high side, it remains that CIVI hosting is not just like any other type of
> backend. It requires someone who knows what theyre doing (i.e. who knows
> how to handle that CRM). Still, I find their 99$ price point on hosting a
> bit high. I'll see what can be done with that.
>
> . I could find some public price points for CIVI monthly packages, in the
> low 100's, but they did not include any dev time nor technical support, nor
> backups, not virtual server for testing, nor ddos protection, etc. etc.
>
> . Finally, we are looking at at least a few if not several thousands of
> dollars in "discovery" fees for onboarding a new company or individual. We
> were to pick an individual consultant, it might be more of a few rather
> than several, but think about it this way: onboarding is at least 20 hours
> of work, and most likely more than that, so minimally 2000$ - more likely
> towards or above 3k.
>
> . And maybe most importantly, subject to verification as Steph required,
> we have a 9000$/year allocation by ICANN. If we don't use that money on
> these services, it's just not spent, we don't get to bank it or use it on
> travel support... Given that we have a good relationship with Wapix
> already, I feel it would be a better investment of these monies to continue
> with them.
>
>
> That being said, our current system is I would say barely usable, and I
> heard all of you express dissatisfaction with it. I also share this feeling.
>
> Now the thing is, even if Wapix ended up being slightly above market
> price, I would not be in favour of spending my time working on switching
> right away, for the following reasons:
>
> I understand that a lot of things Wapix does are things we can do "on our
> own," but I don't think that seeing things this way is sustainable. We
> cannot rely on the fact that we would always have someone ready *and* able
> to take care of these things (and as a matter of fact, we have no one
> now).
>
> In that sense, the only longer-term sustainable solution is to have
> someone do it for us. Let's say we pick an individual consultant who begins
> and will do it for cheap. Great, we just saved a few 1000's over a year.
> Then, one year later, said person, because theyre skilled, finds a higher
> paying job in a company. Now we've lost our consultant, must look again,
> pay discovery fees again, etc. Do note that we faced a similar situation
> with Wapix, were our main POC left the company and left us in a limbo for
> several weeks. However we were spared new discovery fees once we got
> someone assign to us.
>
> In addition, if we only pay the monthly fee and don't buy any development
> time now, we are paying for a system we are not satisfied with, while we
> have the opportunity to spend to try and make it better.
>
> So subject to discussion with Josh for the points that need clarification,
> I would suggest that we go with the cheaper option which includes less
> monthly tickets and less development time included, but that we also buy
> more time. How much, I don't know; at least one 10 hour block.
>
> Given that Maryam is the prime user of the system right now, I would take
> it upon myself to work with her to make sure that every dev hour is spent
> on something that makes her life more easy (and incidentally, ours). We
> used the previous dev time to fix the really outstanding issues, get
> ourselves a minimally workable front end, and to cover up for emergency
> issues that arose with the elections. Now I think we can try to capitalize
> on that and make some further progress.
>
> And as an additional note, Wapix SLA is rather open; we need one month's
> notice to terminate. So if any of you is willing to put the time and effort
> required to come up with a workable and financially advantageous
> switch-over plan, eventually asking for an ABR when the time comes and if
> we need it, or cutting some deal with NPOC and NCUC for more money as we've
> done in the past, it will always be time to use up our dev time and do the
> switch. You are free and welcome to start working on that right away, I
> have absolutely no problem with that, on the contrary. But for now, I would
> rather use the time I can dedicate to that task and the money we have
> available, in order to improve the systems we have rather than coming up
> with another plan.
>
> And to end, some numbers: 400/month*12 is 4800. That leaves us up to 30
> hours of dev time we could buy before topping our allocation. Do note that
> I'm not in favor of topping it, I'm just giving these out so we know what
> ballpark we're playing in.
>
> The final decision belongs to the EC collectively so I'm looking to hear
> from you all on that. I will schedule a call with Josh early next week to
> discuss our questions (those we discussed in Montreal) and anything else,
> and will share the details on list so you can all join.
>
> CCed techteam list for information purposes.
>
> Have a nice day,
>
>
>
>
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From ncsg at tapani.tarvainen.info  Sun Nov 24 07:00:12 2019
From: ncsg at tapani.tarvainen.info (Tapani Tarvainen)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2019 07:00:12 +0200
Subject: [NCSG-EC] [NCSG Techteam] Follow up from Montreal discussion on
 our CRM
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-onVP5ZUVZAYAUuKTqTg7qNo-skLRfr_a-4KjQuU4oKJw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPZSw-onVP5ZUVZAYAUuKTqTg7qNo-skLRfr_a-4KjQuU4oKJw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20191124050012.GA5228@tarvainen.info>

On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 11:11:06AM -0500, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via Techteam (techteam at lists.ncsg.is) wrote:

Picking just one thing here:

> I understand that a lot of things Wapix does are things we can do "on our
> own," but I don't think that seeing things this way is sustainable. We
> cannot rely on the fact that we would always have someone ready *and* able
> to take care of these things (and as a matter of fact, we have no one
> now).

Just observing that we actually do some things "on our own" already:
DNS, mailing lists, backups. And some stuff (wiki) is provided by ICANN.

-- 
Tapani Tarvainen


From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Sun Nov 24 08:11:09 2019
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2019 01:11:09 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-EC] [NCSG Techteam] Follow up from Montreal discussion on
 our CRM
In-Reply-To: <20191124050012.GA5228@tarvainen.info>
References: <CAPZSw-onVP5ZUVZAYAUuKTqTg7qNo-skLRfr_a-4KjQuU4oKJw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20191124050012.GA5228@tarvainen.info>
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-q6x9MVm7c=pLECN8FQEgZ7jqJ+VFfqTCa332ANOmAUFQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Tapani,

Yes of course! and thats a good opportunity to thank you for all the
important back office work you've been doing for NCSG for all these years!
:)

My reference was more to the kind of work done by Wapix overall, especially
when it comes to CIVI.

Have a nice day!


On Sun, Nov 24, 2019, 00:00 Tapani Tarvainen <ncsg at tapani.tarvainen.info>
wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 11:11:06AM -0500, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix via
> Techteam (techteam at lists.ncsg.is) wrote:
>
> Picking just one thing here:
>
> > I understand that a lot of things Wapix does are things we can do "on our
> > own," but I don't think that seeing things this way is sustainable. We
> > cannot rely on the fact that we would always have someone ready *and*
> able
> > to take care of these things (and as a matter of fact, we have no one
> > now).
>
> Just observing that we actually do some things "on our own" already:
> DNS, mailing lists, backups. And some stuff (wiki) is provided by ICANN.
>
> --
> Tapani Tarvainen
>
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From maryam.bakoshi at icann.org  Mon Nov 25 13:20:29 2019
From: maryam.bakoshi at icann.org (Maryam Bakoshi)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2019 11:20:29 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-EC] URGENT - Doodle Poll: NCSG EC Meeting
Message-ID: <7622C294-8E45-487F-A48F-983F9A6888A2@icann.org>

Dear all,

In order to determine a time and date for the NCSG EC meeting this week, please fill in the doodle poll below by today Monday 25 November 2019 2000 UTC:

https://doodle.com/poll/kn5mk7sy4c3esxwx


Many thanks,
--

Maryam Bakoshi | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
ICANN | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
S: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | T: +44 7846 471777

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From rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  Mon Nov 25 17:33:20 2019
From: rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com (Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2019 10:33:20 -0500
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Call Monday or Tuesday?
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-owX_0cqXXEAH33GsJ+=H7gqVABEx-ex2dR22xL=c9Y7Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPZSw-r2gUFXYByoDPC8wqz4zp8z7GctCqoM6nx9YwsbxK_=jQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <698819ba-afb2-2ff2-09c9-f4219776ceba@mixmax.com>
 <CAPZSw-owX_0cqXXEAH33GsJ+=H7gqVABEx-ex2dR22xL=c9Y7Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPZSw-rk=Qy4mSc30bEGC18RjFnq4Zzgb-RvwyUsE7KxTHAjeQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Josh,

Please find below a summary of the few points for discussion for the
meeting today:

? Why has hosting doubled in price for the coming year? We were satisfied
with the hosting service in general and would like to keep it at the
previous price.
? We have been paying for the SMTP Email Framework option for the past
year; this was not suggested for next year. We are not clear on what this
option does, and did we end up ?using? it at all?
? Optional rider you suggested is priced at 87.50/m, so 1050/y, while your
previous email suggested the price would be in the 900/y range?

More of a technical question: It is my understanding (from the
documentation) that it is possible to export all contact information
(including relationships, etc.) in the form of a CSV file from the UI using
the search function. Is it so?

And finally it seems that CIVI itself is due for an update. We?d like to
make sure this kind of update is included in the monthly SLA and more
generally. which are the updates that you do and those that require dev
time (we know PHP requires dev time as we discussed previously).

Thank you and talk to you later today!

On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 10:27 PM Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <
rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Josh,
>
> Let's do Monday 12 noon MST. That would also allow my colleagues from
> Europe to join in if they want to.
>
> I'll send you a short agenda on Sunday.
>
> Have a nice evening,
>
> On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 9:30 PM Josh Porter <josh at wapix.co> wrote:
>
>> Hi, Raphael,
>>
>> Sure, we can schedule a meeting. I am currently open Monday and Tuesday
>> afternoons from 12:00 PM to 4:00 PM MST. Let me know what works for you.
>>
>> All the best!
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Joshua Porter
>> Managing Director
>>
>> Wanna Pixel, Inc.
>> 9888 W Belleview Ave #5043, Denver, CO 80123 US
>> https://wapix.co/
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 5:37 PM, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix
>> rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Josh,
>>>
>>> What are your availabilities for these two days? As mentioned we have a
>>> few questions on the optional and mandatory subscriptions for the SLA
>>> plans, especially how these map on what we were previously paying for.
>>> There might be a few additional matters, depending on feedback I get from
>>> our group and who else would join. I do not expect it would take over an
>>> hour, however.
>>>
>>> Have a nice day,
>>>
>>
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From maryam.bakoshi at icann.org  Tue Nov 26 00:49:42 2019
From: maryam.bakoshi at icann.org (Maryam Bakoshi)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2019 22:49:42 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Reminder: URGENT - Doodle Poll: NCSG EC Meeting
In-Reply-To: <7622C294-8E45-487F-A48F-983F9A6888A2@icann.org>
References: <7622C294-8E45-487F-A48F-983F9A6888A2@icann.org>
Message-ID: <FC789532-11F5-4E1B-9885-00E457507115@icann.org>

Dear Raoul, Juan,

Gentle reminder to fill in the doodle poll below. Thank you!

?
Many thanks,


Maryam Bakoshi | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
ICANN | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
S: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | T: ?+44 7846 471777?

On 25 Nov 2019, at 11:20, Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org> wrote:

?
Dear all,

In order to determine a time and date for the NCSG EC meeting this week, please fill in the doodle poll below by today Monday 25 November 2019 2000 UTC:

https://doodle.com/poll/kn5mk7sy4c3esxwx


Many thanks,
--

Maryam Bakoshi | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
ICANN | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
S: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | T: +44 7846 471777

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From josh at wapix.co  Mon Nov 25 20:09:49 2019
From: josh at wapix.co (Josh Porter)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2019 18:09:49 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Call Monday or Tuesday?
In-Reply-To: <CAPZSw-rk=Qy4mSc30bEGC18RjFnq4Zzgb-RvwyUsE7KxTHAjeQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPZSw-r2gUFXYByoDPC8wqz4zp8z7GctCqoM6nx9YwsbxK_=jQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <698819ba-afb2-2ff2-09c9-f4219776ceba@mixmax.com>
 <CAPZSw-owX_0cqXXEAH33GsJ+=H7gqVABEx-ex2dR22xL=c9Y7Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPZSw-rk=Qy4mSc30bEGC18RjFnq4Zzgb-RvwyUsE7KxTHAjeQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5b789565-3f22-fa3b-d6ea-b431a5a9722f@mixmax.com>

Hi, Raphael,
Good morning! Some great questions here. I'll offer a few responses and then we
can discuss in more detail at the meeting.
1) This fee is an access fee. It is the cost associated with us not being able
to use our normal systems because your site is hosted by someone else.
Unfortunately (for us), when your last contract was written someone made a
mistake and charged you the wrong amount. So far we have simply been eating this
cost, but it is time to get it corrected.2) The email sending framework is an
email sending service that offers superior handling of email particularly?for
large mailings. However, since you never used it, we assumed you are fine with
your current mailing settings and have removed it from the proposal.3) 10 hour
development blocks are selling for $950 each until the end of the year. Starting
January 1, 2019, the cost for a 10 hour development block will increase to $1050
due to increasing labor costs.
4) Yes, many types of exports are possible from CiviCRM. However, there are
limitations on how much can be exported at once mostly based on your site's
capacity to handle the load. We can look at how this works on our call.5) We
take your site security seriously and are currently rolling out CiviCRM security
upgrades to our client sites including yours. Several things guide how this
process works.
a) Critical server upgrades are applied automatically with two caveats. If you
site cannot support the upgrade or if the upgrade ends up breaking your site, we
will reach out to you for guidance on how you wish to proceed. (These two
situations often require development work charged against a development block.)
Otherwise, we will inform you when testing is complete and the timing for when
upgrades will be applied to your live site. The automatic application of
critical security updates is covered under your normal SLA.b) Non-critical
updates can be applied on request or automatically if you so desire. These will
use up 1 or more of your monthly support incidents depending on what upgrades
are requested. Otherwise there is no additional cost unless these upgrades end
up breaking your site. If that happens, the fixes required can be handled either
under your new Tier 2 hours or under a development block.
Hope this clarifies a few things. Looking forward to chatting more soon!
Sincerely,Joshua PorterManaging Director
Wanna Pixel, Inc.9888 W Belleview Ave #5043,Denver, CO 80123 UShttps://wapix.co/







On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 3:33 PM, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix 
rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  wrote:
Hi Josh,

Please find below a summary of the few points for discussion for the meeting
today:
?	Why has hosting doubled in price for the coming year? We were satisfied with
the hosting service in general and would like to keep it at the previous price.
?	We have been paying for the SMTP Email Framework option for the past year;
this was not suggested for next year. We are not clear on what this option does,
and did we end up ?using? it at all? 
?	Optional rider you suggested is priced at 87.50/m, so 1050/y, while your
previous email suggested the price would be in the 900/y range? 

More of a technical question: It is my understanding (from the documentation)
that it is possible to export all contact information (including relationships,
etc.) in the form of a CSV file from the UI using the search function. Is it
so?
And finally it seems that CIVI itself is due for an update. We?d like to make
sure this kind of update is included in the monthly SLA and more generally.
which are the updates that you do and those that require dev time (we know PHP
requires dev time as we discussed previously).
Thank you and talk to you later today!

On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 10:27 PM Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix <
rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Josh,
Let's do Monday 12 noon MST. That would also allow my colleagues from Europe to
join in if they want to.
I'll send you a short agenda on Sunday.
Have a nice evening,
On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 9:30 PM Josh Porter <josh at wapix.co> wrote:
Hi, Raphael,
Sure, we can schedule a meeting. I am currently open Monday and Tuesday
afternoons from 12:00 PM to 4:00 PM MST. Let me?know what works for you.
All the best!
Sincerely,Joshua PorterManaging Director
Wanna Pixel, Inc.9888 W Belleview Ave #5043,Denver, CO 80123 UShttps://wapix.co/







On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 5:37 PM, Raphael Beauregard-Lacroix 
rbeauregardlacroix at gmail.com  wrote:
Hi Josh,

What are your availabilities for these two days? As mentioned we have a few
questions on the optional and mandatory subscriptions for the SLA plans,
especially how these map on what we were previously paying for. There might be a
few additional matters, depending on feedback I get from our group and who else
would join. I do not expect it would take over an hour, however.
Have a nice day,
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From maryam.bakoshi at icann.org  Wed Nov 27 15:53:53 2019
From: maryam.bakoshi at icann.org (Maryam Bakoshi)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 13:53:53 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-EC] NCSG EC Meeting - New Doodle Poll
Message-ID: <4774B658-04B6-487D-8C32-4BF24CBBDC5F@icann.org>

Dear all,

Following the result of the  doodle poll<https://doodle.com/poll/kn5mk7sy4c3esxwx?utm_campaign=poll_added_participant_admin&utm_medium=email&utm_source=poll_transactional&utm_content=gotopoll-cta#table> circulated last week, we have not been able to get a date and time for the EC meeting proposed for this week.  So, please complete this new doodle poll for an EC meeting next week. I hope this will work for everyone: https://doodle.com/poll/pg48iui42bbgsy37


Many thanks,
--

Maryam Bakoshi | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
ICANN | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
S: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | T: +44 7846 471777

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From maryam.bakoshi at icann.org  Fri Nov 29 21:14:56 2019
From: maryam.bakoshi at icann.org (Maryam Bakoshi)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2019 19:14:56 +0000
Subject: [NCSG-EC] Reminder: NCSG EC Meeting - New Doodle Poll
In-Reply-To: <4774B658-04B6-487D-8C32-4BF24CBBDC5F@icann.org>
References: <4774B658-04B6-487D-8C32-4BF24CBBDC5F@icann.org>
Message-ID: <8D52D3FB-95CB-476A-B00E-D865D7A48A7A@icann.org>

Dear all,

Please this is a gentle reminder to fill in the doodle poll below.

Thank you!

?
Many thanks,


Maryam Bakoshi | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
ICANN | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
S: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | T: ?+44 7846 471777?

On 27 Nov 2019, at 13:54, Maryam Bakoshi <maryam.bakoshi at icann.org> wrote:

?
Dear all,

Following the result of the  doodle poll<https://doodle.com/poll/kn5mk7sy4c3esxwx?utm_campaign=poll_added_participant_admin&utm_medium=email&utm_source=poll_transactional&utm_content=gotopoll-cta#table> circulated last week, we have not been able to get a date and time for the EC meeting proposed for this week.  So, please complete this new doodle poll for an EC meeting next week. I hope this will work for everyone: https://doodle.com/poll/pg48iui42bbgsy37


Many thanks,
--

Maryam Bakoshi | SO/AC Collaboration Services Sr. Coordinator
ICANN | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
S: Maryam.bakoshi.icann | T: +44 7846 471777

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