[NCSG-EC] Procedural errors

Tue Aug 1 06:52:35 EEST 2017

Dear Robin,

With due respect I have to disagree.

We made two formally conflicting decisions, we could
not let them both stand. The first, Tatiana's appointment,
was clear and unquestionable, the second, Ed's status,
much less so for a number of reasons.

I don't think anybody would've been happy if I had
failed to appoint Tatiana because of the latter. Would you?

But, I agree that Ed's message was clear enough regarding
his council seat, and he has indeed just confirmed it
in a message to James Bladel, so there's no need to
debate that any more.

What we need to do, however, is to change Tatiana's
status from temporary alternate to temporary replacement.

Tapani

On Jul 31 15:34, Robin Gross (robin at ipjustice.org) wrote:
> 
> Tapani,
> 
> The EC made a decision last week to accept Ed’s resignation and note it for the record.  You do not have the authority to over-turn the unanimous decision of the EC.  Decisions of the EC must be unanimous by all members of the committee.  After the committee has made a unanimous decision, the chair has no authority to “undo” the decision, as you have attempted to do.  I don’t know what authority you think you have to over-turn a decision of the committee to accept his resignation from the NCSG.
> 
> Furthermore, there is nothing unclear or ambiguous about Ed’s resignation.  Surely people don’t have to list every single list they are a member of before their resignation can be accepted.  Ed's written resignation letter very explicitly said to remove him from “ALL lists” and this unambiguously includes the membership list.  This resignation comes as no surprise as it was long foretold by Ed and others, and your attempts to revive his membership have gone unanswered by him.  The only one this resignation seems “confused” to is you.
> 
> Robin
> 
> 
> > On Jul 31, 2017, at 9:47 AM, Tapani Tarvainen via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
> > 
> > Hi Robin,
> > 
> > As I've already noted, Ed's email is not exactly clear, his talk in
> > Johannesburg much less so (saying he intends to resign is not same as
> > resigning, after all he'd said it many times before).
> > 
> > And our AOB talk on Friday was confused, in particular we didn't make
> > at all clear if we're talking about him leaving just the council or
> > his NCSG membership or what. So I want to do it properly.
> > 
> > Tapani
> > 
> > On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 09:22:42AM -0700, Robin Gross (robin at ipjustice.org) wrote:
> >> 
> >> I’m not sure where all the confusion and mystery is coming from.  Ed told many people in Joburg he was resigning, including yourself, which we discussed on this list.  Then he sent a resignation email to you on July 11 instructing you to remove him from all lists, which was forwarded to the EC weeks ago.  We don’t need for the EC to “agree" to his resignation for it to take effect.  We on the EC cannot keep a person on the membership roles when they have explicitly instructed us to remove them.  As Ed had resigned in writing on 11 July, Tatiana’s appointment should have been presented as a replacement instead of alternate to begin with.  Let’s just change it to replacement and get on our work.
> >> 
> >> Thanks
> >> Robin
> >> 
> >>> On Jul 31, 2017, at 9:00 AM, Tapani Tarvainen via NCSG-EC <ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> Hi Joan,
> >>> 
> >>> Thank you, but first we'll have to work out Ed's removal properly,
> >>> and we do need a new decision, by current EC.
> >>> 
> >>> What we could and probably should do is decide that Tatiana will
> >>> be appointed as replacement as soon as Ed's removal from the council
> >>> is formally confirmed, so there'd be no danger of a gap in our
> >>> council represenation.
> >>> 
> >>> Tapani
> >>> 
> >>> On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 11:24:06AM -0400, Joan Kerr (joankerr at fbsc.org) wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>> Hi Tapani, All
> >>>> 
> >>>> I am responding to this email, because I was part of the meeting on
> >>>> Friday.  I support Tatiana as replacement instead of alternate.
> >>>> 
> >>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
> >>>> Virus-free.
> >>>> www.avast.com
> >>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
> >>>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> >>>> 
> >>>> On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 11:16 AM, Tapani Tarvainen via NCSG-EC <
> >>>> ncsg-ec at lists.ncsg.is> wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>>> Dear all,
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Staff has pointed out that we made a procedural error in our Friday
> >>>>> meeting:
> >>>>> two decisions that are in conflict with each other, both cannot be let
> >>>>> stand.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Specifically, like proxy, temporary alternate can only be appointed for
> >>>>> a councillor who's formally still in office. When a councillor resigns,
> >>>>> proxy assignments and temporary alternate appointments are nullified,
> >>>>> and a temporary replacement (different from alternate) should be appointed.
> >>>>> So if we deem Ed to have resigned, Tatiana's appointment is void.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> This should not be hard to fix, but as time is short, I am going to let
> >>>>> Tatiana's appointment stand as it is and set our decision regarding Ed
> >>>>> aside, or rather consider the latter to be mere discussion.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> The practical reason for this is obviously the need to have Tatiana
> >>>>> in council for the vote tomorrow and we don't have time to make new
> >>>>> decisions before then.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> There's also the formal point that member removal is a significant
> >>>>> decision, especially so when circumstances are unusual like now, and
> >>>>> non-trivial decisions should not be made as last-minute AOB items.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> This should not be too hard to do properly, especially if we can agree
> >>>>> on the list about Ed's status and replacement (changing Tatiana's
> >>>>> status from alternate to replacement), or otherwise let's put it on
> >>>>> next meeting agenda.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Tapani Tarvainen
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> NCSG-EC mailing list
> >>>>> NCSG-EC at lists.ncsg.is
> >>>>> https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec
> >>>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> -- 
> >>>> 
> >>>> Joan Kerr,
> >>>> 
> >>>> Social Entrepreneur, Humanitarian
> >>>> 
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> >>>> 
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