[EC-NCSG] 2 new NCSG membership applications submitted

Mon Nov 14 17:59:46 EET 2011

Avri, 
I don't see how you can say it is "odd." 
Every member has to join NCSG, and most will also join a constituency. What would be odd is to separate the processes. 

Ideally (and this is what some of us thought should happen) people would join NCSG first, and then sort themselves into constituencies (or not) later. But that involves two distinct steps, which makes an already confusing process more confusing. 

Further, NPOC did not want to operate that way, and we are respecting their method of recruiting new members and bringing them into NCSG and NPOC at the same time. In order to make the process consistent NCUC is doing the same thing. 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ec-ncsg-bounces at ipjustice.org [mailto:ec-ncsg-
> bounces at ipjustice.org] On Behalf Of Avri Doria
> Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2011 7:04 PM
> To: ec-ncsg at ipjustice.org
> Subject: Re: [EC-NCSG] 2 new NCSG membership applications submitted
> 
> Dear Robin,
> 
> Seems a bit odd, but if that is the way the EC wants to do it, ok I guess.
> Should probably indicate that fact  in the text that points to the forms - as it
> is, it gave me the impression that it was pointing to an NCSG membership
> form.
> 
> As for the offer to take responsibility for creating an NCSG specific form, I
> must politely decline the opportunity.  Should I figure out how to create an
> online form in the wiki, I will be glad to explain how it is done to you, but
> having carried the load of NCSG administration alone for 2 years only to have
> some of it undone, I have decided to devote my administrative volunteering
> time and capabilities elsewhere for the foreseeable future.  I do hope that
> comments based on review are still valued, even if the effort to fix them is
> not also volunteered.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> avri
> 
> 
> 
> On 13 Nov 2011, at 18:15, Robin Gross wrote:
> 
> > There seem to be some misunderstanding about these forms.  These
> forms are *supposed* to be joint NCUC-NCSG membership applications.
> Each of the constituencies is creating a joint constituency-NCSG form and the
> ones you are looking at are the JOINT ncuc-ncsg forms (as it says on the top
> of the form).  Amber is working the joint form with NPOC and will send that
> to the EC for posting to the NCSG wiki when she is done with it.  These forms
> being joint forms with the constituencies was discussed on this list and during
> the EC meeting (toward the beginning of the transcript), so I'm not sure how
> that was over-looked and the assumption was made otherwise.
> >
> > These forms are just short-term measures because we needed something
> to put up immediately since we have been without any kind of online
> membership form for so long.  We need a long term solution that integrates
> an online database and are looking at these options now.  Since you have
> taken an interest in the charter's requirements for an online form, I hope you
> would be glad to volunteer to create one for the SG, as such constructive
> participation would be most welcome - and needed.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Robin
> >
> >
> > On Nov 11, 2011, at 12:09 PM, Avri Doria wrote:
> >
> >> Dear Robin,
> >>
> >> On 11 Nov 2011, at 12:50, Robin Gross wrote:
> >>
> >>> Also FYI:  I've updated the membership forms online to include the
> promise to follow the rules as stated the charter.
> >>
> >> I hope you will forgive me for offering advice, but I figure that is part of
> the reason I was put back on this list.
> >>
> >> I think that the forms need some more work.  I do not just mean the fact
> that while it a form one finds online, it is not an online form. That is another
> issue, and I know it will be hard one for you to solve (I admit I could not solve
> it).  I am currently experimenting with setting up an online form in the wiki
> for another purpose, and must admit I have not figured it out yet - though I
> do think the secret is to embed html in the wiki.
> >>
> >> Getting back to the form as it currently stands, (I am looking at:
> <https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/15630409/NCSG-
> NCUC-Organization-member-
> Application2.htm?version=1&modificationDate=1320987366896>) and find it
> is a NCUC/NCSG form and not an NCSG form.    I think that it is fine that the
> NCSG form ask if people want to join constituencies as well as the NCSG, but
> in which case, it should probably include an option for one to join either
> NCUC or NPOC or even both - with the review of these constituency
> applications pending the acceptance of the NCSG and the review by the
> appropriate people from the designated constituencies.  So I recommend
> that either the form remove the option for people to join NCUC or add the
> ability to join NPOC.  Of course this would only be on the organizational form
> as individuals are not qualified, as far as I know, for NPOC membership.
> >>
> >> I also think that the FAQ is somewhat problematic as it includes text like:
> >>
> >>> 1.     Should I be a member both of NCUC and NCSG?
> >>>
> >>> Yes. Membership in NCUC is important because it strengthens the only
> real noncommercial voices within the Internet Corporation for Assigned
> Names and Numbers (ICANN).
> >>
> >> I am sure this is a hangover from previous NCUC membership forms, but
> you may want to re-consider the text.   It is certainly reasonable to mention a
> sales pitch from each of the full status constituencies and to explain the extra
> level of participation one get by exercising the member's right to join up to 3
> constituencies.  It would also be good to list any special requirements beyond
> the NCSG membership requirements for Constituency membership, in so far
> as the Constituencies may have additional membership requirements.
> >>
> >> Also, while I see that you aded a check for subscribing to the rules of the
> NCSG and ICANN to some of the forms, it does not look like it was done
> consistently though the entire set of application forms.
> >>
> >> There is something new that might need to be added to the individual
> membership form.  With the new charter, a person who is part of an
> organizational member may only be an individual member as well if they
> have a non-commercial registration as an individual.  That limitation should
> probably be expressed in the form.  this may also affect some current
> members.  Also the individual application gives people a choice of just joining
> NCUC without also joining NCSG.  while I guess this is ok for people who are
> already NCSG members, this is not clear from the form.
> >>
> >> Anyway, this is what I have noticed as of now, though of course I may find
> other issues as time goes on, and if it is ok, will send a follow-up.
> >>
> >> Thanks for all your hard work trying to create an appropriate membership
> regime with proper forms.
> >>
> >> best regards,
> >>
> >> avri
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > IP JUSTICE
> > Robin Gross, Executive Director
> > 1192 Haight Street, San Francisco, CA  94117  USA
> > p: +1-415-553-6261    f: +1-415-462-6451
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> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
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