GNSO Council|and GAC

[Wisdom Donkor]

I believe is deliberate for not recognising the position of NCSG. The only
option now is to submit it directly to the board.



On Sat, 23 Apr 2022, 1:48 am Bruna Martins dos Santos, <
bruna.mrtns at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes, that is indeed unfortunate and rather interesting that the GNSO
> Council opted for not mentioning publicly our opposition.
>
> But I guess our only and best option now is to submit this correspondence
> to the Board mentioning that it was also submitted to Council and not
> properly acknowledged.
>
> Just an idea….
>
> Best,
> B
>
> On Fri 22. Apr 2022 at 21:11, farzaneh badii <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> While this thread about our letter to the GNSO Council about closed
>> generics is amusing, it also clearly shows how GNSO council cannot and is
>> not willing to resist the requests to come up with completely new
>> frameworks to appease GAC. Especially pay attention to what Jeff is saying.
>> Jeff is the GNSO Council liaison to GAC. If they don't add our letter to
>> the communication, we can send a shorter one to the Board and to GAC
>> specifically. This is not about closed generics, this is about adhering to
>> our principles and processes at ICANN and not coming up with ad hoc
>> processes that empower GAC even further.
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>> From: philippe.fouquart--- via council <council at gnso.icann.org>
>> Date: Fri, Apr 22, 2022 at 2:57 PM
>> Subject: Re: [council] Draft letter to the Board on closed generics
>> dialogue
>> To: Jeff Neuman <jeff at jjnsolutions.com>, Justine Chew <
>> justine.chew.icann at gmail.com>, Kurt Pritz <kurt at kjpritz.com>
>> Cc: GNSO Secs <gnso-secs at icann.org>, council at gnso icann. org <
>> council at gnso.icann.org>
>>
>>
>> Kurt, Justine, Jeff, thanks for the inputs.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1) and reference to the NCSG’s letter: The reference is on record with
>> the minutes, and can also be found in the Council list archive, I don’t
>> think there’s any risk this goes unnoticed, I’d suggest we simply say While
>> the Council is willing to pursue these next steps, it is important to note
>> that Non-Commercial Stakeholders Group expressed its opposition to the
>> approach.
>>
>>
>>
>> Manju (since it is you who spoke on this during our call): would you be
>> fine with this?
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2) and modalities, I’d suggest we go for Jeff’s edits and simply say
>> in the second paragraph:
>>
>> The Council is appreciative of the ICANN Board’s attention to GNSO
>> related matters and is willing to pursue next steps for the facilitated
>> dialogue, subject to mutual agreement with the GAC on the conditions for
>> that dialogue.
>>
>>
>>
>> Ironically, in French, the equivalent of ‘modalities’ has a sense of a
>> series of menial tasks that the authors would consider a) quite
>> straightforward and b) as a result, generally not worth doing by
>> themselves. Neither of which would probably be true here I think.
>>
>>
>>
>> It seems 2) alleviates the need to elaborate as, Justine, you suggested
>> with your 3rd point but let us know if it doesn’t work.
>>
>>
>>
>> As attached with diff marks.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Philippe
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Jeff Neuman <jeff at jjnsolutions.com>
>> *Sent:* Friday, April 22, 2022 3:48 PM
>> *To:* Justine Chew <justine.chew.icann at gmail.com>; Kurt Pritz <
>> kurt at kjpritz.com>; FOUQUART Philippe INNOV/NET <
>> philippe.fouquart at orange.com>
>> *Cc:* GNSO Secs <gnso-secs at icann.org>; council at gnso icann. org <
>> council at gnso.icann.org>
>> *Subject:* RE: [council] Draft letter to the Board on closed generics
>> dialogue
>>
>>
>>
>> I strongly urge that the letter from the NCSG is not included with this
>> letter.  As Justine states, there are some mischaracterizations  in that
>> letter and as far as I am aware the rest of the Council does not agree with
>> the opinions expressed by the NCSG.  You can indicate that the NCSG opposed
>> the meeting in the letter without any attachments.  If you include the NCSG
>> letter, would you consider adding letters from the other SGs and Cs that
>> are in support of the meeting?  I believe the best way is to note the
>> NCSG’s disagreement, but not attach anything.
>>
>>
>>
>> And with respect to the word “modalities”, it is an unnecessary word.  A
>> “modality” is a condition is it not?  So I would just state: “….that the
>> Council is willing to pursue next steps for the facilitated dialogue,
>> subject to mutual agreement with the GAC on the conditions for that
>> dialogue.”
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeffrey J. Neuman
>>
>> Founder & CEO
>>
>> JJN Solutions, LLC
>>
>> p: +1.202.549.5079
>>
>> E: jeff at jjnsolutions.com
>>
>> http://jjnsolutions.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* council <council-bounces at gnso.icann.org> *On Behalf Of *Justine
>> Chew via council
>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 21, 2022 8:12 PM
>> *To:* Kurt Pritz <kurt at kjpritz.com>; Philippe Fouquart <
>> philippe.fouquart at orange.com>
>> *Cc:* GNSO Secs <gnso-secs at icann.org>; council at gnso icann. org <
>> council at gnso.icann.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [council] Draft letter to the Board on closed generics
>> dialogue
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello Philippe, Kurt,
>>
>> 1. I agree with Kurt on the NCSG letter, and if it were to be included, I
>> think we should at least address the assertion that "GAC has been silent
>> since 2013 on the matter of Closed Generics" as called out by Jeff as a
>> mis-characterization of the GAC on the part of NCSG.
>>
>>
>> 2. I understand the word "modalities" to mean "ways of doing something",
>> but if there's a better word to address Kurt's concerns then by all means,
>> let's consider that.
>>
>> 3. Would it be feasible to add to the end of the second paragraph, a
>> suggestion that "the conditions and modalities for that dialogue" will be
>> forthcoming? That would indicate that Council is giving thought to those
>> and will continue to do so (hence allowing for the Closed Generics small
>> team leeway to do its work).
>>
>> Thanks for considering.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Justine
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 06:54, Kurt Pritz via council <
>> council at gnso.icann.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Philippe:
>>
>>
>>
>> Two comments:
>>
>>
>>
>> 1. If the NCSG has requested that reference to their comment should be
>> included it in the letter, then we should include it. If not, you might ask
>>  if they want that (and if they do, include it). I don’t think it adds
>> value at this point — but will add value as we get into the meeting set-up,
>> the discussion scope, and the actions taken with any recommendations that
>> come out of the meeting.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2. I personally recommend that we avoid the use of the term ‘modalities.’
>> I don’t know what it means and, if participating in a group tasked with
>> identifying them, I wouldn’t know what they are. I right clicked on the
>> word and found that Microsoft knows of no synonyms. I looked it up in a
>> popular online dictionary and came up with:
>>
>> — the quality or state of being modal;  a modal quality or attribute;
>>
>> — the classification of logical propositions according to their asserting
>> or denying the possibility, impossibility, contingency, or necessity of
>> their content;
>>
>> — one of the main avenues of sensation (such as vision);
>>
>> — a usually physical therapeutic agency
>>
>>
>>
>> Not getting the sense from there, I looked for its use in a sentence and
>> found:
>>
>> "Ineluctable modality of the visible: at least that if no more, thought
>> through my eyes.” *The New Yorker, 7 Feb. 2022*
>>
>>
>>
>> That did not help me understand the definition but did tell me a lot
>> about the kind of people that use the word. I understand the word is
>> commonly used in governmental settings but we needn’t adopt the custom if
>> it is not clarifying or helpful.
>>
>>
>>
>> Slightly more seriously, when we meet among ourselves and with the GAC,
>> we should all understand the target and “modalities” seems too broad. It
>> would be helpful for me (maybe it is just me) to replace the word with
>> commonly spoken terms or to parenthetically define it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for listening,
>>
>>
>>
>> Kurt
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 22, 2022, at 3:32 AM, philippe.fouquart--- via council <
>> council at gnso.icann.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Councilors,
>>
>>
>>
>> Please find attached for you review a draft response letter to the ICANN
>> Board on closed generics. It intends to capture the conclusions of our
>> discussion during the Council call last week.
>>
>>
>>
>> We would like to have it ready for the Board workshop next week, so
>> please have a look before April 27th 1200 UTC (Wednesday)
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Philippe
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>>
>> <Closed Generics_Council to ICANN Board - 20 April
>> 2022.docx>_______________________________________________
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>>
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>> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
>> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
>> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
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> --
>
> *Bruna Martins dos Santos *
>
> German Chancellor Fellow 21' (Bundeskanzler-Stipendiatin) | Alexander von
> Humboldt Foundation <https://www.humboldt-foundation.de/>
>
> Visiting Researcher (Gastwissenschaftlerin) | Wissenschaftszentrum Berlin
> für Sozialforschung (WZB) <https://wzb.eu/en>
>
> Member | Coalizão Direitos na Rede <https://direitosnarede.org.br/>
> Chair | Non-Commercial Stakeholder Group at ICANN
> <https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/stakeholders-constituencies/ncsg>
> Co-Coordinator | Internet Governance Caucus  <https://igcaucus.org/>
>
> Twitter: @boomartins <https://twitter.com/boomartins> // Skype:
> bruna.martinsantos
> *bruna.martinsdossantos at wzb.eu <bruna.martinsdossantos at wzb.eu>* and
> bruna.mrtns at gmail.com
>
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