NCSG Election Clarifications

[Olivier Kouami]

Noted with thanks James.
Those who are gaining their life from what is doing here know themselves,
surely.
Anyway I agree with you that it's not a new situation. When I see proposals
like 'Not all of the above '' or ''Abstain''. It's not the first time I've
found them in the ICANN ecosystem.

Let's move forward, anyway.
''Que le meilleur gagne''
Warm regards
Olévié

Le mar. 2 juin 2020 à 16:22, James Gannon <lists at icann.guru> a écrit :

> With respect, this is not about Steph, this is not a new situation either.
>
> It’s about a fundamental lack of effort from people in reading the charter
> when they joined and jumping onto a bandwagon that they don’t even
> understand because they are unwilling to put in a minimal amount of effort
> reading our foundational documents.
>
>
>
> ---
>
> *James Gannon*
>
>
>
> *From: *Olivier Kouami <olivierkouami at gmail.com>
> *Date: *Tuesday, 2 June 2020 at 17:18
> *To: *James Gannon <lists at icann.guru>
> *Cc: *"NCSG-DISCUSS at listserv.syr.edu" <NCSG-DISCUSS at listserv.syr.edu>
> *Subject: *Re: NCSG Election Clarifications
>
>
>
> Greetings all,
>
>
>
> Please, let's be kind and gentle with each other on this thread.
>
> We are facing a new situation and we all need to make understandable to
> all how to deal with such a situation.
>
> IMHO,  Stephanie will not be elected but she'll be appointed to fill a
> lack of female, in this election.
>
> My 3 cents
>
> Olévié
>
>
>
> Le mar. 2 juin 2020 à 15:50, James Gannon <lists at icann.guru> a écrit :
>
> Well to be honest what has came out in the last few days is that the
> members who are unwilling to put in the hours and effort to further NCSG
> policy seemingly find time to raise issues with a 9 year old charter that
> governs all of our membership.
>
>
>
> For those of us putting in hours and hours of work and expending
> considerable personal expense to do actual work for the NCSG, at least in
> my own case, its very frustrating to see people come out at this point and
> make criticism of those of us actually working for the SG and for the
> furtherance of NCSGs values in ICANN policy development.
>
>
>
> Maybe if more people actually put in the time and effort to work on ICANN
> policy instead of having NCSG listed in their bios on LinkedIn we would not
> be having this conversation as we would have a deeper bench of policymakers
> and influencers to fill our officer and policy roles.
>
>
>
> ---
>
> *James Gannon*
>
>
>
> *From: *"Vaibhav Aggarwal, Catalyst & Group CEO" <va at bladebrains.com>
> *Date: *Tuesday, 2 June 2020 at 16:41
> *To: *James Gannon <lists at icann.guru>
> *Cc: *"NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" <NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU>
> *Subject: *Re: NCSG Election Clarifications
>
>
>
> Thanks for writing in James.
>
> I am not asking for an Expense Statement. Not to trivialize this - I am
> asking for a Written report of Who Did what ? If there are member from the
> group travelled - they represented the Group Right ? So the Group should
> have a Call on it - A Report should be published of the take aways, action
> items -
>
>
>
> Secondly - Every year there are “Vacancies filled” - What are they doing ?
> What is their report - What did they do ? How did the group further its
> Agenda ? Voice ? Et. etc.
>
>
>
> I hope you get what I am saying.
>
>
>
> As far as bringing in Amendments - Why should I be the one - If the group
> is interested to do it - Lets constitute a Task force - Let it be a
> Unanimous effort - We will do it like a PDP - and Bring about a proposal.
> And If the group want me to Spend time on it - Efforts - I will be happy to
> chair that - It could be a Sub Group - Like other SGs everywhere !!
> Everyone should be part of the process - Isn’t that one of the contentions
> emerging the past few days ??
>
>
>
> cheers
>
> -VA
>
>
>
> On Jun 2, 2020, at 8:33 PM, James Gannon <lists at icann.guru> wrote:
>
>
>
> Two points:
>
> All covered travelers are noted here:
> https://community.icann.org/display/trvlconstit/Travel+Report
>
> No other expenses are covered by ICANN for any officers or councilmembers,
> we fund all of the rest ourselves, often at great expense.
>
>
>
> And any member can start the charter amendment process, I look forward to
> seeing the amendment proposal from you in the coming weeks.
>
>
>
> ---
>
> *James Gannon*
>
>
>
> *From: *NCSG-Discuss <NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU> on behalf of
> "Vaibhav Aggarwal, Catalyst & Group CEO" <va at BLADEBRAINS.COM>
> *Reply to: *"Vaibhav Aggarwal, Catalyst & Group CEO" <va at BLADEBRAINS.COM>
> *Date: *Tuesday, 2 June 2020 at 15:43
> *To: *"NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" <NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU>
> *Subject: *Re: NCSG Election Clarifications
>
>
>
> *Who Said What : *
>
>
>
> To continue on this, It clearly means “We don’t care for Democracy” = In
> technical Words - Whoever pointed out that the role is Not Elected but
> Selected / Nominated  - Elevated - is good.
>
>
>
> Take Example from the US Presidential forms. The Next in line is
> accordance to the Role they plat in the Manage of the Country - So does
> anywhere else. In all the forums - Either small or Big.
>
>
>
> To justify all the money extended, reports submitted etc. There is No
> Archive of A Report being Submitted by ANY EC or Former Chair or Councilor
> as to work delivered over the last few years. In fact, it should be right
> to say from the inception. We don’t see a time line or a collection of
> documents, works done - Yes there are “LIST ARCHIVES” but what is to be
> drawn on that ? Whenever, a office bearer debits office, a report should be
> submitted, a Traveller travels on Forum Expense either in part or Full,
> there should be a sharing of knowledge, Because in the GNSO community login
> - Confluence, there isn’t anything or there isn’t Much. What does that mean
> ?
>
>
>
> *The Constitution :  *
>
>
>
> There are over 300 members (and Several More) Only 4 People is to be
> constituted ? And only 4-6-8 people decide how the functioning will be is
> it ? Thats governance ? WoW.
>
>
>
> The Bylaws cannot be constant - they have to evolve. For anything the
> group does, there should be a consensus building. Not a DikTat.
>
>
>
> *Adaptation & Purpose : *
>
>
>
> This discussion has become who says what - Who is right and who is wrong -
> who is supported by whom - but no body want to talk from a perspective of
> the community. Why ? What the rush for the Positions and to maintain the
> Positions. - Why can there be rotation ? If we have grown this big in Some
> - why cant there be rotation of teams - Initially when the Bylaws were made
> - there were not many number of people. Now there are. The Charter’s need /
> requirement and adoptions needs have evolved and changed and thus it should
> be adapted too.
>
>
>
> -VA
>
> Twitter : @TheVaibhavAg
>
> Facebook : @Vaibhav.tiger
>
> Linkedin : linkedin.com/in/vaibhavbb
>
>
>
> —————————————————————
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 2, 2020, at 7:50 PM, Stephanie E Perrin <
> stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA> wrote:
>
>
>
> The ballot does not say none of the above any more, it says abstain.
>
> Stephanie
>
> On 2020-06-02 10:02 a.m., Mueller, Milton L wrote:
>
> Liz, I understand your disappointment, but factually you are quite wrong.
>
>
>
> To say that Stephanie is Robin’s “favored candidate” – or the favorite of
> anyone on the NCSG EC – is almost laughably incorrect. Let me assure you,
> Robin is just trying to make the election conform to the rules, she is not
> promoting favorites.
>
>
>
> I agree with James that all this complaining is a bit late in the day. If
> people want to get into the election then they need to get into it, and not
> be coy and worry about whether someone else is running. The underlying
> problem here is not just the rigidity of the charter, but also the lack of
> alternative candidates.
>
>
>
> I do have a constructive suggestion to make. If people are concerned about
> this weird situation produced by the gender diversity rule, then one option
> is to vote “none of the above” for the candidate you object to. Let’s
> suppose that a candidate gets 50% or more of these “votes of no
> confidence.” In such a case, the candidate would have a strong incentive to
> re-evaluate the situation and perhaps drop out and let the EC appoint
> another person. Of course that appointment would have to conform to the
> rules, but the “none of the above” vote would allow us to avoid an
> “automatic” election of anyone.
>
>
>
> *From:* NCSG-Discuss <NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU>
> <NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU> *On Behalf Of *Liz Orembo
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 2, 2020 7:18 AM
> *To:* NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: NCSG Election Clarifications
>
>
>
> Hi Amir,
>
>
>
> I'm sorry it looks like im responding to your email. My email is in
> response to the whole thread and esp on Robin's clarification.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 2:13 PM Amr Elsadr <aelsadr at icannpolicy.ninja>
> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Grace. I appreciate the clarification.
>
>
>
> Thanks again.
>
>
>
> Amr
>
>
>
> On Jun 2, 2020, at 1:07 PM, Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Not at all Amr. And I was not refering to you. I actually appreciate your
> interpretation.  I just happened to respond on your response.
>
>
>
> I have read the different emails from different people and for me, this is
> a good debate because we are now forced to scrutinize the bylaws. I hope
> this sets the record straight Amr.
>
>
>
> Rgds
>
> Grace
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *Grace Githaiga*
>
> Twitter: @ggithaiga
>
> Skype: gracegithaiga
>
> Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gracegithaiga
>
>
>
> .*.**.the most important office in a democracy is the citizen. So, you
> see, that’s what our democracy demands. It needs you!----Barrack Obama.*
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Amr Elsadr <aelsadr at icannpolicy.ninja>
> *Sent:* 02 June 2020 2:03 PM
> *To:* Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga at hotmail.com>
> *Cc:* NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU <NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU>
> *Subject:* Re: NCSG Election Clarifications
>
>
>
> Hi Grace,
>
>
>
> Apologies if that is the impression I gave. I assure you, that was not my
> intent. I’m not trying to justify anything, really. Only trying to explain
> my understanding of the Bylaws as I have read them. When I do attempt to
> interpret them, and share that interpretation with the NCSG membership, I
> do my best to provide references, so that our members may read the relevant
> sections for themselves.
>
>
>
> I’m not, of course, infallible. I may make a mistake, misread something,
> misinterpret its intent or even overlook another relevant part of the
> Bylaws, so pointing to references also helps others fill in gaps I may have
> unintentionally left.
>
>
>
> I hope this helps.
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> Amr
>
>
>
> On Jun 2, 2020, at 12:58 PM, Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Interesting debate! These clarifications are good as they help in
> scrutinizing and understanding of the bylaws. We are seeing different
> interpretations mostly trying to justify positions that the different
> people are taking.  It would be important not to bend them just to suit
> what we want.
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *Grace Githaiga*
>
> Twitter: @ggithaiga
>
> Skype: gracegithaiga
>
> Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gracegithaiga
>
>
>
> .*.**.the most important office in a democracy is the citizen. So, you
> see, that’s what our democracy demands. It needs you!----Barrack Obama.*
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* NCSG-Discuss <NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU> on behalf of Amr
> Elsadr <aelsadr at ICANNPOLICY.NINJA>
> *Sent:* 02 June 2020 1:26 PM
> *To:* NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU <NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU>
> *Subject:* Re: NCSG Election Clarifications
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> On Jun 2, 2020, at 6:29 AM, Tapani Tarvainen <ncsg at TAPANI.TARVAINEN.INFO>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> [SNIP]
>
>
>
>
> Second, the one-year term does not count in term limit in this case,
> as per ICANN Bylaws 11.3(b). That is, whoever gets it may be elected
> twice after that for a total of five years, whereas those who get two
> years now can only do only one additional term for a total of four
> years (absent special circumstances we discussed with Amr earlier,
> which could allow an extra term in either case).
>
>
>
> I don’t believe this is correct. Only those selected/appointed to fill a
> vacancy fit the scenario you’re describing here, Tapani. So, for example,
> Juan was appointed to fill a vacancy on Council. The time he served does
> not count toward his two consecutive terms limit, and he may run for a full
> Council term now (or a one-year term depending on the number of votes he
> gets), and if elected, may run for a second full term in two years time.
>
>
>
> Whoever gets elected to fill the leftover 1-year period has this 1-year
> term count towards the two consecutive term limit, so will have a maximum
> possibility of three consecutive years on Council, instead of four (not
> five instead of four).
>
>
>
> The relevant language in the Bylaws says:
>
>
>
> *"Except in a "special circumstance," such as, but not limited to, meeting
> geographic or other diversity requirements defined in the Stakeholder Group
> charters, where no alternative representative is available to serve, no
> Council member may be selected to serve more than two consecutive terms, in
> such a special circumstance a Council member may serve one additional
> term. For these purposes, a person selected to fill a vacancy in a term
> shall not be deemed to have served that term. A former Council member who
> has served two consecutive terms must remain out of office for one full
> term prior to serving any subsequent term as Council member. A "special
> circumstance" is defined in the **GNSO** Operating Procedures."* [emphasis
> added]
>
>
>
> An elected Councilor is not filling a vacant seat. The seat is his or hers
> once elected. Vacant seats are filled by selection/appointment, not by
> election. A “vacancy” on the GNSO Council is defined in Article 11.3(c) of
> the ICANN Bylaws.
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> Amr
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> Best regards.
>
> Liz.
>
>
> PGP ID: 0x1F3488BF
>
>
>
>
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