NCSG Election Clarifications

[Olivier Kouami]

Greetings all,

Please, let's be kind and gentle with each other on this thread.
We are facing a new situation and we all need to make understandable to all
how to deal with such a situation.
IMHO,  Stephanie will not be elected but she'll be appointed to fill a lack
of female, in this election.
My 3 cents
Olévié

Le mar. 2 juin 2020 à 15:50, James Gannon <lists at icann.guru> a écrit :

> Well to be honest what has came out in the last few days is that the
> members who are unwilling to put in the hours and effort to further NCSG
> policy seemingly find time to raise issues with a 9 year old charter that
> governs all of our membership.
>
>
>
> For those of us putting in hours and hours of work and expending
> considerable personal expense to do actual work for the NCSG, at least in
> my own case, its very frustrating to see people come out at this point and
> make criticism of those of us actually working for the SG and for the
> furtherance of NCSGs values in ICANN policy development.
>
>
>
> Maybe if more people actually put in the time and effort to work on ICANN
> policy instead of having NCSG listed in their bios on LinkedIn we would not
> be having this conversation as we would have a deeper bench of policymakers
> and influencers to fill our officer and policy roles.
>
>
>
> ---
>
> *James Gannon*
>
>
>
> *From: *"Vaibhav Aggarwal, Catalyst & Group CEO" <va at bladebrains.com>
> *Date: *Tuesday, 2 June 2020 at 16:41
> *To: *James Gannon <lists at icann.guru>
> *Cc: *"NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" <NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU>
> *Subject: *Re: NCSG Election Clarifications
>
>
>
> Thanks for writing in James.
>
> I am not asking for an Expense Statement. Not to trivialize this - I am
> asking for a Written report of Who Did what ? If there are member from the
> group travelled - they represented the Group Right ? So the Group should
> have a Call on it - A Report should be published of the take aways, action
> items -
>
>
>
> Secondly - Every year there are “Vacancies filled” - What are they doing ?
> What is their report - What did they do ? How did the group further its
> Agenda ? Voice ? Et. etc.
>
>
>
> I hope you get what I am saying.
>
>
>
> As far as bringing in Amendments - Why should I be the one - If the group
> is interested to do it - Lets constitute a Task force - Let it be a
> Unanimous effort - We will do it like a PDP - and Bring about a proposal.
> And If the group want me to Spend time on it - Efforts - I will be happy to
> chair that - It could be a Sub Group - Like other SGs everywhere !!
> Everyone should be part of the process - Isn’t that one of the contentions
> emerging the past few days ??
>
>
>
> cheers
>
> -VA
>
>
>
> On Jun 2, 2020, at 8:33 PM, James Gannon <lists at icann.guru> wrote:
>
>
>
> Two points:
>
> All covered travelers are noted here:
> https://community.icann.org/display/trvlconstit/Travel+Report
>
> No other expenses are covered by ICANN for any officers or councilmembers,
> we fund all of the rest ourselves, often at great expense.
>
>
>
> And any member can start the charter amendment process, I look forward to
> seeing the amendment proposal from you in the coming weeks.
>
>
>
> ---
>
> *James Gannon*
>
>
>
> *From: *NCSG-Discuss <NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU> on behalf of
> "Vaibhav Aggarwal, Catalyst & Group CEO" <va at BLADEBRAINS.COM>
> *Reply to: *"Vaibhav Aggarwal, Catalyst & Group CEO" <va at BLADEBRAINS.COM>
> *Date: *Tuesday, 2 June 2020 at 15:43
> *To: *"NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU" <NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU>
> *Subject: *Re: NCSG Election Clarifications
>
>
>
> *Who Said What : *
>
>
>
> To continue on this, It clearly means “We don’t care for Democracy” = In
> technical Words - Whoever pointed out that the role is Not Elected but
> Selected / Nominated  - Elevated - is good.
>
>
>
> Take Example from the US Presidential forms. The Next in line is
> accordance to the Role they plat in the Manage of the Country - So does
> anywhere else. In all the forums - Either small or Big.
>
>
>
> To justify all the money extended, reports submitted etc. There is No
> Archive of A Report being Submitted by ANY EC or Former Chair or Councilor
> as to work delivered over the last few years. In fact, it should be right
> to say from the inception. We don’t see a time line or a collection of
> documents, works done - Yes there are “LIST ARCHIVES” but what is to be
> drawn on that ? Whenever, a office bearer debits office, a report should be
> submitted, a Traveller travels on Forum Expense either in part or Full,
> there should be a sharing of knowledge, Because in the GNSO community login
> - Confluence, there isn’t anything or there isn’t Much. What does that mean
> ?
>
>
>
> *The Constitution :  *
>
>
>
> There are over 300 members (and Several More) Only 4 People is to be
> constituted ? And only 4-6-8 people decide how the functioning will be is
> it ? Thats governance ? WoW.
>
>
>
> The Bylaws cannot be constant - they have to evolve. For anything the
> group does, there should be a consensus building. Not a DikTat.
>
>
>
> *Adaptation & Purpose : *
>
>
>
> This discussion has become who says what - Who is right and who is wrong -
> who is supported by whom - but no body want to talk from a perspective of
> the community. Why ? What the rush for the Positions and to maintain the
> Positions. - Why can there be rotation ? If we have grown this big in Some
> - why cant there be rotation of teams - Initially when the Bylaws were made
> - there were not many number of people. Now there are. The Charter’s need /
> requirement and adoptions needs have evolved and changed and thus it should
> be adapted too.
>
>
>
> -VA
>
> Twitter : @TheVaibhavAg
>
> Facebook : @Vaibhav.tiger
>
> Linkedin : linkedin.com/in/vaibhavbb
>
>
>
> —————————————————————
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 2, 2020, at 7:50 PM, Stephanie E Perrin <
> stephanie.perrin at MAIL.UTORONTO.CA> wrote:
>
>
>
> The ballot does not say none of the above any more, it says abstain.
>
> Stephanie
>
> On 2020-06-02 10:02 a.m., Mueller, Milton L wrote:
>
> Liz, I understand your disappointment, but factually you are quite wrong.
>
>
>
> To say that Stephanie is Robin’s “favored candidate” – or the favorite of
> anyone on the NCSG EC – is almost laughably incorrect. Let me assure you,
> Robin is just trying to make the election conform to the rules, she is not
> promoting favorites.
>
>
>
> I agree with James that all this complaining is a bit late in the day. If
> people want to get into the election then they need to get into it, and not
> be coy and worry about whether someone else is running. The underlying
> problem here is not just the rigidity of the charter, but also the lack of
> alternative candidates.
>
>
>
> I do have a constructive suggestion to make. If people are concerned about
> this weird situation produced by the gender diversity rule, then one option
> is to vote “none of the above” for the candidate you object to. Let’s
> suppose that a candidate gets 50% or more of these “votes of no
> confidence.” In such a case, the candidate would have a strong incentive to
> re-evaluate the situation and perhaps drop out and let the EC appoint
> another person. Of course that appointment would have to conform to the
> rules, but the “none of the above” vote would allow us to avoid an
> “automatic” election of anyone.
>
>
>
> *From:* NCSG-Discuss <NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU>
> <NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU> *On Behalf Of *Liz Orembo
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 2, 2020 7:18 AM
> *To:* NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: NCSG Election Clarifications
>
>
>
> Hi Amir,
>
>
>
> I'm sorry it looks like im responding to your email. My email is in
> response to the whole thread and esp on Robin's clarification.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 2:13 PM Amr Elsadr <aelsadr at icannpolicy.ninja>
> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Grace. I appreciate the clarification.
>
>
>
> Thanks again.
>
>
>
> Amr
>
>
>
> On Jun 2, 2020, at 1:07 PM, Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Not at all Amr. And I was not refering to you. I actually appreciate your
> interpretation.  I just happened to respond on your response.
>
>
>
> I have read the different emails from different people and for me, this is
> a good debate because we are now forced to scrutinize the bylaws. I hope
> this sets the record straight Amr.
>
>
>
> Rgds
>
> Grace
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *Grace Githaiga*
>
> Twitter: @ggithaiga
>
> Skype: gracegithaiga
>
> Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gracegithaiga
>
>
>
> .*.**.the most important office in a democracy is the citizen. So, you
> see, that’s what our democracy demands. It needs you!----Barrack Obama.*
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Amr Elsadr <aelsadr at icannpolicy.ninja>
> *Sent:* 02 June 2020 2:03 PM
> *To:* Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga at hotmail.com>
> *Cc:* NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU <NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU>
> *Subject:* Re: NCSG Election Clarifications
>
>
>
> Hi Grace,
>
>
>
> Apologies if that is the impression I gave. I assure you, that was not my
> intent. I’m not trying to justify anything, really. Only trying to explain
> my understanding of the Bylaws as I have read them. When I do attempt to
> interpret them, and share that interpretation with the NCSG membership, I
> do my best to provide references, so that our members may read the relevant
> sections for themselves.
>
>
>
> I’m not, of course, infallible. I may make a mistake, misread something,
> misinterpret its intent or even overlook another relevant part of the
> Bylaws, so pointing to references also helps others fill in gaps I may have
> unintentionally left.
>
>
>
> I hope this helps.
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> Amr
>
>
>
> On Jun 2, 2020, at 12:58 PM, Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Interesting debate! These clarifications are good as they help in
> scrutinizing and understanding of the bylaws. We are seeing different
> interpretations mostly trying to justify positions that the different
> people are taking.  It would be important not to bend them just to suit
> what we want.
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *Grace Githaiga*
>
> Twitter: @ggithaiga
>
> Skype: gracegithaiga
>
> Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gracegithaiga
>
>
>
> .*.**.the most important office in a democracy is the citizen. So, you
> see, that’s what our democracy demands. It needs you!----Barrack Obama.*
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* NCSG-Discuss <NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU> on behalf of Amr
> Elsadr <aelsadr at ICANNPOLICY.NINJA>
> *Sent:* 02 June 2020 1:26 PM
> *To:* NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU <NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU>
> *Subject:* Re: NCSG Election Clarifications
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> On Jun 2, 2020, at 6:29 AM, Tapani Tarvainen <ncsg at TAPANI.TARVAINEN.INFO>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> [SNIP]
>
>
>
>
> Second, the one-year term does not count in term limit in this case,
> as per ICANN Bylaws 11.3(b). That is, whoever gets it may be elected
> twice after that for a total of five years, whereas those who get two
> years now can only do only one additional term for a total of four
> years (absent special circumstances we discussed with Amr earlier,
> which could allow an extra term in either case).
>
>
>
> I don’t believe this is correct. Only those selected/appointed to fill a
> vacancy fit the scenario you’re describing here, Tapani. So, for example,
> Juan was appointed to fill a vacancy on Council. The time he served does
> not count toward his two consecutive terms limit, and he may run for a full
> Council term now (or a one-year term depending on the number of votes he
> gets), and if elected, may run for a second full term in two years time.
>
>
>
> Whoever gets elected to fill the leftover 1-year period has this 1-year
> term count towards the two consecutive term limit, so will have a maximum
> possibility of three consecutive years on Council, instead of four (not
> five instead of four).
>
>
>
> The relevant language in the Bylaws says:
>
>
>
> *"Except in a "special circumstance," such as, but not limited to, meeting
> geographic or other diversity requirements defined in the Stakeholder Group
> charters, where no alternative representative is available to serve, no
> Council member may be selected to serve more than two consecutive terms, in
> such a special circumstance a Council member may serve one additional
> term. For these purposes, a person selected to fill a vacancy in a term
> shall not be deemed to have served that term. A former Council member who
> has served two consecutive terms must remain out of office for one full
> term prior to serving any subsequent term as Council member. A "special
> circumstance" is defined in the **GNSO** Operating Procedures."* [emphasis
> added]
>
>
>
> An elected Councilor is not filling a vacant seat. The seat is his or hers
> once elected. Vacant seats are filled by selection/appointment, not by
> election. A “vacancy” on the GNSO Council is defined in Article 11.3(c) of
> the ICANN Bylaws.
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> Amr
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> Best regards.
>
> Liz.
>
>
> PGP ID: 0x1F3488BF
>
>
>
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