Opening an account for NPOC, NCUC and NCSG in Estonia

[Remmy Nweke]

Hi Stephanie
Thanks to Ramirez for the intervention.

I am not sure both you and Sam have this kind of account except I am
missing something.

I thought he opened account for NPOC.

At the same time there will be a cost of operating whatever account we
eventually decided and must not overlook budgeting or planning for this
cost alongside every plan.
Regards
Remmy

On Tue, 15 Jan 2019, 11:30 p.m. Stephanie Perrin <
stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca wrote:

> Tamir has volunteered to get some legal advice on this from those who
> understand banking better.  The account is free.  I think Sam's account is
> on the same basis as mine.  I am looking into business numbers.  I think we
> have it all in hand.  Sam and Joan and I are actually quite far from each
> other.  As long as it costs nothing, I think we should stick to this plan,
> while we investigate all the ramifications of this.
>
> Cheers Stephanie
> On 2019-01-15 16:32, Remmy Nweke wrote:
>
> Hi Stephanie
> Hope this meets you well.
> Will not be of best interest to leverage the NPOC account which Sam once
> opened and since you are also within reach to make this the best we can.
>
> I had previously suggested we leverage this kind of account before Sam
> insight came with hope that there should be some kind of Memorandum of
> Understanding among the Cs and NCSG in the case of any hiccup with hope
> that will help us navigate the NCSG imbroglio with a given percentage set
> aside to caution the taxes that is associated with it in the event we have
> inflows, so that we do not overlabour our volunteers for choosing to serve
> at the highlevels.
>
> May be a revisit will help us all.
> Remmy
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> On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 7:33 PM Stephanie Perrin <
> stephanie at digitaldiscretion.ca> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for this discussion, Tapani and Moritz.  Obviously, I am concerned
>> abou this because I have no desire to pay income tax on the amount
>> potentially coming into my account from the PIR account, particularly
>> because it is coming form the United States and this would not, to the best
>> of my knowledge, be covered under the waiver we all sign as volunteers
>> accepting travel funds from ICANN.  I will be asking my account for advice
>> on this, at my own expense.  The long arm of the IRS is not to be
>> underestimated, for us Canadians, and they can be quite arbitrary about
>> alleging taxes owed.
>>
>> Stephanie
>> On 2019-01-13 06:25, Tapani Tarvainen wrote:
>>
>> On Jan 12 23:15, Moritz Bartl (bartl at RENEWABLEFREEDOM.ORG) wrote:
>>
>>
>> What is being discussed here is _not_ merely "opening a bank account".
>> What you are discussing is to set up organizations.
>>
>> Yes. That is the whole point, specifically to avoid this:
>>
>>
>> If you run an account under your name, or a shared account with
>> someone else, you have the full legal responsibility.
>>
>> Yes. And that is our situation now.
>>
>>
>> But, maybe more importantly, what you receive to this account is
>> (shared) income. If you don't declare it with your taxes, you are
>> committing tax fraud.
>>
>> This is not correct in general. Rules vary from country to country, of
>> course, and what you say may be true in some, but certainly not all -
>> the following applies in at least some I happen to know of.
>>
>> All money that comes to your accounts is not income nor should be
>> declared as such. You can, for example, borrow or lend money, and if
>> there's no interest involved there's no income either nor any need to
>> declare such debts with your taxes (at least if your country has no
>> property tax).
>>
>> More to the point, you can use your own account to handle money
>> belonging to someone else, including an association, without any tax
>> implications, and in many countries law also recognizes unregistered
>> or unincorporated associations (with various limitations on what they
>> can or can't do).
>>
>> Whether any incoming money is ultimately taxable or needs to be
>> declared depends on all kinds of things, but often, e.g., membership
>> fees are tax exempt.
>>
>>
>> If you buy services, you buy them for you, and they become your
>> legal responsibility.
>>
>> That is not quite accurate either. You can buy services even for an
>> unregistered association. You will be responsible for them, but if you
>> try to, say, take them away from the association, its other members
>> can sue you and win, depending on details of course.
>>
>>
>> You can do so as a group, no problem, but you are not magically "not
>> a legal entity".
>>
>> I'm not quite sure what that means, but certainly even an unregistered
>> association can be a legal entity.
>>
>> Registering or incorporating an association changes the situation, in
>> particular it limits personal responsibility and makes a number of
>> things legally much easier and better defined, but it's not a totally
>> clear cut, black-and-white distinction.
>>
>> Anyway, you are absolutely right that there are all kinds of legal
>> complications and they should be well researched before incorporating
>> NCSG in any country.
>>
>>
>>
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