RDS/WHOIS 2 Review Team Comments/ALAC Mechanisms

[farzaneh badii]

I agree Michael. Saying end users don't see it that way is problematic.
Undergraduates and other students whom I have across  to from the US don't
side with open whois either.  Not all end users side with the business
person. And I am curious to know the Canadian consumer protection agency /
gov position on this.

As to NCSG  polling non commercial registrants about their opinion, no we
don't. But we also don't argue that we are putting our positions forward as
the representatives of all the domain name registrants. We are reps of
ncsg. on the other hand ALAC reps from time to time claim that they are
rescuing or protecting the interest of 4 billion internet users. WHen such
claims are made, evidence should be provided as well.



On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 8:46 PM Michael Karanicolas <mkaranicolas at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi John,
>
> It's good to hear from you on this, and I appreciate your perspective. But
> - when you say:
>
> "And that’s a great argument except that an insurance salesman in Nebraska
> or a shopkeeper in Toronto probably doesn’t share that view. End users
> simply don’t see it that way."
>
> That seems, to me, like an enormous and sweeping statement... and it seems
> kind of problematic to assert something like that based on a few
> conversations you've had.
>
> I really don't mean to be glib - I know that assessing the interests and
> values of the world's Internet users is an incredibly difficult proposition.
>
> But I wonder if you've considered whether ALAC should potentially be more
> nuanced in the positions that it takes, either in the sense of holding back
> from acting as a strong voice for conclusions where there's a strong
> counter-argument in terms of how Internet users' interests would be best
> served, or staking out positions that reflect the diversity of opinions
> that exists?
>
> Best,
>
> Michael
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 8:20 PM Ayden Férdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>
> wrote:
>
>> That is an interesting argument. How does knowing the physical address of
>> Google's headquarters, for instance, empower an individual to take action
>> against Google.com if they feel like their privacy has been violated?
>>
>> Ayden
>>
>>
>> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>> On Wednesday, 21 November 2018 02:18, John Laprise <jlaprise at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> On the contrary, it’s about whose privacy we’re protecting. Most people
>> don’t own a website let alone a domain and the domain holders are seen by
>> the public as the ones likely to violate their privacy and therefore making
>> the domain holders information available/public enables end users to hold
>> them accountable.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Ayden Férdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:10 PM
>> *To:* John Laprise <jlaprise at gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* mkaranicolas at GMAIL.COM; NCSG-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU; avri at apc.org;
>> julf at JULF.COM; 'Maureen Hilyard' <maureen.hilyard at gmail.com>; 'Jonathan
>> Zuck' <JZuck at innovatorsnetwork.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: RDS/WHOIS 2 Review Team Comments/ALAC Mechanisms
>>
>>
>>
>> Sorry, I forgot to reply to this point in my previous email-
>>
>>
>>
>> I am pleased to see that you trust and depend upon polling from Pew as
>> well. A recent study from Pew found that a large majority of Americans are
>> VERY concerned about their privacy, don't know what they can do about it,
>> AND think laws to protect privacy are inadequate. I think it is a real pity
>> that ALAC's positions do not reflect this concern.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/03/27/americans-complicated-feelings-about-social-media-in-an-era-of-privacy-concerns/
>>
>>
>>
>> Best wishes, Ayden
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>>
>> On Wednesday, 21 November 2018 02:01, John Laprise <jlaprise at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>>
>>
>> So how does ALAC reach consensus on positions? Largely by taking amongst
>> ourselves. More importantly, how do ALAC members arrive at positions on
>> issues that they believe reflects the sense of their RALO. Speaking for
>> myself I do a lot of listening and reading inside and outside of policy
>> circles. While I don’t conduct surveys, my region is blessed with many
>> reputable and robust pollsters. Pew is good starting point. In addition,
>> professionally I work as a market research manager for a nonprofit that
>> isn’t Internet-centric but relies on the Internet to deliver content. In
>> the course of my day job I hear a lot about the Internet from end users.
>>
>>
>>
>> If I could offer one general insight from a NARALO point of view to
>> answer Ayden’s question “One wonders why that is their priority.”, one view
>> I’ve heard from many people is that they want the WHOIS to be open and
>> public. The US is a litigious society but one where the government does not
>> (for the most part) pose a visceral threat to life and limb. Many people
>> map the idea of domain name ownership to property ownership. In the US,
>> real estate might be held by a holding company but there are records and
>> deeds. Public availability of such information is seen by many as essential
>> to holding domain holders to account. Please note that I have my own views
>> of this analogy and an awareness of NARALO’s unusual homogeneity.
>>
>>
>>
>> Granted: there are LOTs of things to nit pick about the comment above but
>> it is a generalization. We try to do our best to represent.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> John Laprise
>>
>> NARALO ALAC Representative
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
Farzaneh
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