<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body>
    <p>Hi Tomslin and All,</p>
    <p>Tx for your support and your response.  I should note that my
      request below is not for an "official alternate," but an "<i>unofficial
        alternate</i><b>"  </b>and I'm glad Stephanie supports.  ALAC
      is already planning to do so, and it is a very wise thing for us
      to do as well. I'm afraid I must insist. <br>
    </p>
    <p>ICANN in these small groups can be all consuming and many people
      who participate on these teams are paid fulltime to do so (as I
      was when I was Director of Policy for .ORG). Our IPC friend, when
      they appoint Paul McGrady, will certainly be paid for his
      participation - and he does work for Amazon.</p>
    <p>Like ALAC, we are really the only true volunteers in this
      process.  Accordingly, we cannot drop everything and abandon the
      work that we do to put bread on our tables.  We also can't go
      crazy trying to make meetings that may conflict with requirements
      of our jobs and families.  Unfair requirements is why NCSG and
      NCUC over the years has not participated in many roles of
      leadership and involvement across ICANN.</p>
    <p>So the only thing that makes sense is reasonable backup- an <i>unofficial</i>
      alternate.  It may not be part of the official rules, but it is a
      "reasonable accommodation" for parents and mothers and "reasonable
      accommodation" is a legal term of art in the US - for making sure
      that everyone can participate regardless of circumstances.</p>
    <p>ALAC will be taking these approach - an informal alternate.
      Together (and this is not your job or Manju's), we can make the
      sound argument that true volunteers need informal alternates to
      cover meetings the main representative simply can't make - and
      meetings too important to miss (which is any of them).  ICANN
      needs its "watchers" in place...</p>
    <p>For my peace of mind, as I start a busy book tour (we launched on
      Wednesday in NYC at the engineering school of Cooper Union!), we
      will need this unofficial alternate.  It is the right thing to do
      for NCSG and good precedent for days to come. <br>
    </p>
    <p>Best, Kathy<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/7/2022 4:54 PM, Tomslin Samme-Nlar
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAM8DdeXjXp0mOUR-mumSt9OgkGCUCHx6oXt3naumsKN922HTPA@mail.gmail.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="auto">Hi Kathy,
        <div dir="auto"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto">Thanks for volunteering. Really appreciate it
          because with the short window and skills required,  it would
          have been very difficult to get a volunteer. So, thank you!</div>
        <div dir="auto"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto">Regarding your recommendation that we appoint an
          official alternate, I am afraid that is not possible as
          stipulated on the candidate guidance document I attached to my
          previous email. And more we are now also past the negotiation
          phase in the Council. The guidance document is now the rule
          book for appointing members. What we could do is to pull you
          out as member in the event that you can't attend and appoint
          George instead.</div>
        <div dir="auto"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto">Please let us know and apologies that Manju and
          I were unable to secure an official alternate for NCSG during
          the drafting and discussion of the text.<br>
          <br>
          <div data-smartmail="gmail_signature" dir="auto">Warmly, <br>
            Tomslin</div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, 8 Sept 2022, 00:01
          Kathy Kleiman, <<a href="mailto:Kathy@kathykleiman.com"
            moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Kathy@kathykleiman.com</a>>
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
          .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
          <div>
            <p>Hi Tomslin and All,</p>
            <p>I would like to recommend that I be appointed with George
              Sadowsky as an unofficial alternate. George as you know as
              an ICANN Board member for many years. But few know that
              before that he was a founding member of NCUC (NCSG would
              not be created for about decade after).  In 1999, George
              was with New York University as IT director and joined us
              in founding NCUC and attending early meetings. We were his
              initial link to ICANN! <br>
            </p>
            <p>He has now applied to join NCSG.  Some Board members
              leave ICANN forever, but those who remain, tend to go back
              to the groups they came from. I hope we will approve his
              membership. And then I hope we can allow him to work with
              me on the Closed Generics issues. He is an expert on this
              issue from his time on the Board and knows how difficult
              and complicated it is.  He helped make sure we heard from
              noncommercial organizations around the world before
              passing the first ban on Closed Generics. Later, when the
              Subsequent Procedures Working Group was looking closely at
              this issue, George (at my invitation) joined the Working
              Group to again share the complexities and potential
              problems of Closed Generics from his perspective (which
              include his more recent experience with many United
              Nations organizations).</p>
            <p>While technically the job is supposed to be for one
              person, it is too big for one volunteer (note: some
              attorneys will be paid by their clients and law firms to
              participate fully in this new group and there is a reason
              for that). ALAC plans to appoint a primary person and a
              backup person if the primary person cannot attend a
              meeting or discussion.  Since I will be on book tour with
              my new book about the ENIAC Programmers, <b><i>Proving
                  Ground, </i></b>I think it would be good idea for us
              to have a similar arrangement. We don't want to miss a
              single Closed Generic meeting! <br>
            </p>
            <p>Best and tx,</p>
            <p>Kathy<br>
            </p>
            <div>On 9/6/2022 8:41 AM, Tomslin Samme-Nlar wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <div dir="ltr">
                <div>FYI, PC.</div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>I am still waiting on guidance from Bruna but I
                  just wanted to bring to your attention this statement
                  in the meantime " <span lang="EN-US"><i><b>This group
                        would ideally have a <span
                          style="color:rgb(255,0,0)">first informal
                          meeting during ICANN 75</span>, so we would
                        appreciate if you would let us know the name of
                        your representative ideally <span
                          style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span
                            style="color:rgb(255,0,0)">by September 19<sup>th</sup></span></span></b></i>.</span>"
                  <br>
                </div>
                <div>It means we have only 2 weeks to name a
                  representative for this. I don't think it'll be a
                  problem since Kathy Kleinman had indicated interest
                  already and was granted funding to KL based on that
                  interest but I thought I'd flag the urgency to the
                  whole committee.<br>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <div dir="ltr" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
                      <div dir="ltr">
                        <div>
                          <div dir="ltr">
                            <div>
                              <div dir="ltr">
                                <div dir="ltr">
                                  <div dir="ltr">
                                    <div dir="ltr">
                                      <div dir="ltr">
                                        <div dir="ltr">
                                          <div><br>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>Warmly,<br>
                                          </div>
                                          Tomslin
                                          <div><span
                                              style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12.8px"></span></div>
                                          <div><span
                                              style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12.8px">@LinkedIn:
                                              <a
                                                href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomslin/"
                                                target="_blank"
                                                rel="noreferrer"
                                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomslin/</a><br>
                                            </span></div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <div class="gmail_quote">
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">----------
                      Forwarded message ---------<br>
                      From: <b class="gmail_sendername" dir="auto">philippe.fouquart---
                        via Gnso-chairs</b> <span dir="auto"><<a
                          href="mailto:gnso-chairs@icann.org"
                          target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">gnso-chairs@icann.org</a>></span><br>
                      Date: Fri, 2 Sept 2022 at 22:01<br>
                      Subject: [gnso-chairs] GNSO/GAC dialogue on closed
                      generics: selection of GNSO participants<br>
                      To: <a href="mailto:mason.cole@appdetex.com"
                        target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">mason.cole@appdetex.com</a>
                      <<a href="mailto:mason.cole@appdetex.com"
                        target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">mason.cole@appdetex.com</a>>,
                      <a href="mailto:wolf-ulrich.knoben@t-online.de"
                        target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">wolf-ulrich.knoben@t-online.de</a>
                      <<a
                        href="mailto:wolf-ulrich.knoben@t-online.de"
                        target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">wolf-ulrich.knoben@t-online.de</a>>,
                      <a href="mailto:lschulman@inta.org"
                        target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">lschulman@inta.org</a>
                      <<a href="mailto:lschulman@inta.org"
                        target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">lschulman@inta.org</a>>,
                      <a href="mailto:bruna.mrtns@gmail.com"
                        target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">bruna.mrtns@gmail.com</a>
                      <<a href="mailto:bruna.mrtns@gmail.com"
                        target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">bruna.mrtns@gmail.com</a>>,
                      <a href="mailto:plommer@gmail.com" target="_blank"
                        rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">plommer@gmail.com</a>
                      <<a href="mailto:plommer@gmail.com"
                        target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">plommer@gmail.com</a>>,
                      <a href="mailto:benakin@gmail.com" target="_blank"
                        rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">benakin@gmail.com</a>
                      <<a href="mailto:benakin@gmail.com"
                        target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">benakin@gmail.com</a>>,
                      <a href="mailto:aheineman@godaddy.com"
                        target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">aheineman@godaddy.com</a>
                      <<a href="mailto:aheineman@godaddy.com"
                        target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">aheineman@godaddy.com</a>>,
                      <a href="mailto:sdemetriou@verisign.com"
                        target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sdemetriou@verisign.com</a>
                      <<a href="mailto:sdemetriou@verisign.com"
                        target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sdemetriou@verisign.com</a>>,
                      <a href="mailto:chair@rysg.info" target="_blank"
                        rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">chair@rysg.info</a>
                      <<a href="mailto:chair@rysg.info"
                        target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">chair@rysg.info</a>>,
                      <a href="mailto:secretariat@rysg.info"
                        target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">secretariat@rysg.info</a>
                      <<a href="mailto:secretariat@rysg.info"
                        target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">secretariat@rysg.info</a>>,
                      <a href="mailto:secretariat@icannregistrars.org"
                        target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">secretariat@icannregistrars.org</a>
                      <<a
                        href="mailto:secretariat@icannregistrars.org"
                        target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">secretariat@icannregistrars.org</a>><br>
                      Cc: <a href="mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org"
                        target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">gnso-secs@icann.org</a>
                      <<a href="mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org"
                        target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">gnso-secs@icann.org</a>>,
                      <a href="mailto:gnso-chairs@icann.org"
                        target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">gnso-chairs@icann.org</a>
                      <<a href="mailto:gnso-chairs@icann.org"
                        target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">gnso-chairs@icann.org</a>>,
                      council@gnso icann. org <<a
                        href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org"
                        target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">council@gnso.icann.org</a>><br>
                    </div>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <div>
                      <div link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"
                        style="word-wrap:break-word" lang="FR">
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Dear
                              SG/C leaders,</span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Hope
                              this email finds you all well. </span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">As you
                              know, following an invitation from the
                              Board, the GNSO and the GAC will enter
                              into a dialogue to “formulate a workable
                              framework to identify and handle closed
                              generic applications for the immediate
                              next round of new gTLDs”, and in this
                              dialogue we will be joined by ALAC. </span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Council
                              leadership would like to invite each
                              Stakeholder Group to select a
                              representative for this dialogue. This
                              group is would ideally have a first
                              informal meeting during ICANN 75, so we
                              would appreciate if you would let us know
                              the name of your representative ideally by
                              September 19<sup>th</sup>. </span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">The
                              attached document provides the guidance
                              for this appointment. </span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I
                              would finally like to draw your attention
                              to the spirit of involvement in this
                              effort:</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
                          <ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc">
                            <li
                              style="margin-left:0cm;text-autospace:none">
                              <span lang="EN-US">the framework
                                discussion will focus on options other
                                than the two endpoint positions (i.e. no
                                closed generics at all; closed generics
                                without restrictions) as per the Board’s
                                Proposed Parameters for Dialogue</span></li>
                            <li
                              style="margin-left:0cm;text-autospace:none">
                              <span lang="EN-US">the participants will
                                "contribute as independent individuals,
                                bringing their individual experiences
                                and expertise, and not serve as
                                representatives of their respective
                                community organization(s). The
                                participants must commit to focusing on
                                successfully developing a framework for
                                closed generics, even if the end product
                                is inconsistent with the goals or
                                priorities of the participant or the
                                participant's SO/AC/SG/C.” (Council
                                small team report)</span></li>
                          </ul>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Looking
                              forward to hearing from you, and wishing
                              you all safe travels to KL.</span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Best
                              regards,</span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Philippe</span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Board/GNSO
                              correspondence:</span></p>
                          <ul type="disc">
                            <li><a
href="https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/botterman-to-ismail-fouquart-06mar22-en.pdf"
                                target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                                moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                  lang="EN-US">6 Mar 2022 Letter from
                                  Maarten Botterman to Manal Ismail and
                                  Philippe Fouquart</span></a><span
                                lang="EN-US"> – including the framing
                                paper</span></li>
                            <li><a
href="https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/fouquart-to-botterman-27apr22-en.pdf"
                                target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                                moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                  lang="EN-US">27 April 2022 Letter from
                                  Philippe Fouquart to Maarten Botterman</span></a><span
                                lang="EN-US"></span></li>
                            <li><a
href="https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/botterman-to-fouquart-19may22-en.pdf"
                                target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                                moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                  lang="EN-US">19 May 2022 Letter from
                                  Maarten Botterman to Philippe Fouquart</span></a><span
                                lang="EN-US"> </span></li>
                            <li><a
href="https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/fouquart-to-botterman-ismail-29jun22-en.pdf"
                                target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                                moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                  lang="EN-US">29 Jun 2022 Letter from
                                  Philippe Fouquart to Maarten Botterman
                                  and Manal Ismail</span></a><span
                                lang="EN-US"> </span></li>
                            <li><a
href="https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/botterman-to-fouquart-ismail-25jul22-en.pdf"
                                target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                                moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                  lang="EN-US">25 Jul 2022 Letter from
                                  Maarten Botterman to Philippe Fouquart
                                  and Manal Ismail</span></a><span
                                lang="EN-US"> </span></li>
                          </ul>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Council
                              small team report: <a
href="https://gnso.icann.org/sites/default/files/policy/2022/draft/draft-closed-generics-small-team-report-24jun22-en.pdf"
                                target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">
https://gnso.icann.org/sites/default/files/policy/2022/draft/draft-closed-generics-small-team-report-24jun22-en.pdf</a>
                            </span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                        </div>
                        <pre>_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
</pre>
                      </div>
                      _______________________________________________<br>
                      Gnso-chairs mailing list<br>
                      <a href="mailto:Gnso-chairs@icann.org"
                        target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Gnso-chairs@icann.org</a><br>
                      <a
                        href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-chairs"
                        rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-chairs</a><br>
                      _______________________________________________<br>
                      By submitting your personal data, you consent to
                      the processing of your personal data for purposes
                      of subscribing to this mailing list accordance
                      with the ICANN Privacy Policy (<a
                        href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy"
                        rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy</a>)
                      and the website Terms of Service (<a
                        href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos"
                        rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos</a>).
                      You can visit the Mailman link above to change
                      your membership status or configuration, including
                      unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or
                      disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a
                      vacation), and so on.</div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
              <br>
              <fieldset></fieldset>
              <pre>_______________________________________________
NCSG-PC mailing list
<a href="mailto:NCSG-PC@lists.ncsg.is" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">NCSG-PC@lists.ncsg.is</a>
<a href="https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc</a>
</pre>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
          _______________________________________________<br>
          NCSG-PC mailing list<br>
          <a href="mailto:NCSG-PC@lists.ncsg.is" target="_blank"
            rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"
            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">NCSG-PC@lists.ncsg.is</a><br>
          <a href="https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc"
            rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
            moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc</a><br>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>