<div dir="auto"><div>Thanks for your comments, Kathy. <div dir="auto">I am not an expert in this area but your proposal of using experts from global south, indigenous communities and minority communities on one hand and technical experts on the other sounds like a good idea to me.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">It'll be good to hear what others here think.<br><div dir="auto"><br><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature" dir="auto">Warmly, <br>Tomslin</div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 18 July 2022, 12:33 Kathy Kleiman, <<a href="mailto:Kathy@kathykleiman.com">Kathy@kathykleiman.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div>
    <p>Hi All,</p>
    <p>Tx Tomslin for sharing!  I wish, I wish, we could take the lead
      on this, but I know time is stretched all round.  Do we have a
      good person who could serve on the Small Group? <br>
    </p>
    <p>What do others think?</p>
    <p>I see some merit in Kurt's proposal.  I think this should go
      farther - much farther - to define "to retain and employ the
      outside skills necessary to create the Applicant Support program
      framework."</p>
    <p>Who?  This should be given considerable thought by NCSG and the
      GNSO Council. IMHO, we don't want the usual US consulting firms,
      but experts from and in Global South communities, indigenous
      peoples (in the Global South and Global North), minority
      communities, and likely linguists to think through IDN issues for
      these communities to.  (I'll call them "Applicant Support
      Communities"). <br>
    </p>
    <p>And a separate group of technical gTLD experts. As the Subpro WG
      discussed and included in their recommendation and supporting
      language, many communities and peoples will need more than just
      application fees.  They'll need consulting and other support in
      planning to apply for and run a gTLD (including IDN gTLDs), then
      filling out the detailed ICANN gTLD application (a big process!),
      paying submission fees, then preparing for the work of managing
      and running a gTLD (also a lot of work!). This is not just my
      view, but SubPro WG's discussion. <br>
    </p>
    <p>Overall, if the Applicant Support program framework, heads in
      this direction, it will need "outside skills" with experts who
      know the Applicant Support Communities and how to reach and work
      with them, and [a different group] technical experts to work with
      applicants who know what a gTLD application is (technical,
      operational, financial requirements) and what it takes to run one
      once they get the gTLD delegation from ICANN.  <br>
    </p>
    <p><i>If you agree with the assessment above</i><i>, how can we
        build these details expressly into Kurt's countrproposal (he
        says he is receptive to amendments).</i></p>
    <p>Best and tx, Kathy</p>
    <div>On 7/15/2022 4:45 PM, Tomslin
      Samme-Nlar wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div>Hi Policy committee members,</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>I'd like to hear what you think of this counter proposal
          from Kurt. Specifically, he wants that rather than <b>a
            30-member (20 active, 10 alternate) Steering Committee to
            complete the Applicant Support program development, the
            Council should form a small team that works with ICANN to
            retain and employ the outside skills necessary to create the
            Applicant Support program framework</b>.</div>
        <div>
          <div>
            <div dir="ltr" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
              <div dir="ltr">
                <div>
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                    <div>
                      <div dir="ltr">
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                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>Warmly,<br>
                                  </div>
                                  Tomslin
                                  <div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12.8px"></span></div>
                                  <div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12.8px">@LinkedIn:
                                      <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomslin/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomslin/</a><br>
                                    </span></div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
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          </div>
          <br>
          <br>
          <div class="gmail_quote">
            <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">---------- Forwarded
              message ---------<br>
              From: <b class="gmail_sendername" dir="auto">kurt <a href="http://kjpritz.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">kjpritz.com</a>
                via council</b> <span dir="auto"><<a href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">council@gnso.icann.org</a>></span><br>
              Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2022 at 03:11<br>
              Subject: Re: [council] Motion for the Initiation of the
              GNSO Guidance Process on Applicant Support<br>
              To: Fouquart <<a href="mailto:philippe.fouquart@orange.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">philippe.fouquart@orange.com</a>>,
              <a href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">council@gnso.icann.org</a>
              <<a href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">council@gnso.icann.org</a>><br>
              Cc: <a href="mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gnso-secs@icann.org</a>
              <<a href="mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gnso-secs@icann.org</a>><br>
            </div>
            <br>
            <br>
            <div>
              <div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">Hello
                Councilors: <br>
                <br>
                I am writing to offer an amendment to the Motion to
                initiate the GNSO Guidance Process (GGP). It is enough
                of a departure from the original that I don’t think it
                can / will be considered a friendly amendment. In any
                case, I think it’d be beneficial to the outcome if we
                debated the two approaches and decided on one. I think
                the discussion is as important as the outcome.<br>
                <br>
                The amendment more directly affects the GGP Initiation
                Request that is incorporated into the motion. It seeks
                to simplify the process for creating an Applicant
                Support Program. (An Initiation Request is a
                prerequisite to launching a GGP.) <br>
                <br>
                <b>Background and Recent Developments:</b> The SubPro
                Final Report recommended that a “dedicated IRT” be
                created to flesh out the Applicant Support Program. In
                response, the ODP Team expressed concern that the
                work recommended by SubPro was potentially out of scope
                of the role for an IRT and should be returned to the
                GNSO.   <br>
                <br>
                The Council recognized that this work could be
                accomplished using the GNSO Guidance Process (GGP),
                which is flexible, i.e., adaptable to the needs
                of various policy-related tasks.   <br>
                <br>
                The current motion calls for the creation of a 30-member
                (20 active, 10 alternate) Steering Committee to complete
                the Applicant Support program development with the
                added implication that this group could be used for
                additional policy / implementation issues.<br>
                <br>
                <b>Recommendation:</b> Rather than a Steering Committee,
                the Council should form a small team that works with
                ICANN to retain and employ the outside skills necessary
                to create the Applicant Support program framework.<br>
                <br>
                <b>Rationale for this Recommendation:</b><br>
                <br>
                1.     We approved the SubPro Final Report, so we should
                do what it says. The Report advised that a
                community-based team would not possess the
                requisite skills to develop the Applicant
                Support program and an issue-specific team with the
                necessary outside skillsets should be formed. Creating a
                30-member community team is, at best, an unnecessary
                step and, more likely, is the antithesis of the SubPro
                Report direction and disrespectful of valuable
                volunteer time.<br>
                <br>
                2.     Creating a small team does not contradict the
                participatory, bottom-up model. The broad community
                discussed this topic for five years and provided the
                best direction it could, to take the discussion out from
                under the community umbrella. In any event, no
                GNSO stakeholder group would be precluded from sending a
                member to this small team, and whatever Applicant
                Support program is recommended, the community will
                have the opportunity to discuss it prior to adoption.<br>
                <br>
                3.     Nor is a standing 30-person Steering Committee
                likely to be an economical or effective approach if
                asked to consider additional issues. This
                steering committee likely would be populated by those
                interested in the Applicant Support program and not have
                the necessary skill sets for, or interest in,
                tackling different issues.  Community members interested
                in subsequent issues would likely be closed out
                of participating because the committee would be
                populated by those interested in the Applicant Support
                program. So, the 30-member committee, already
                demonstrated to be inefficient for the purpose of
                sorting the Applicant Support issues, would also be
                ineffectual on the subsequent issues.<br>
                <br>
                4.     This is likely to be an extended commitment on
                the part of our depleted volunteer workforce. Cannot we,
                as managers of the policy process, manage
                these important areas of policy / implementation
                administration, and reserve volunteers’ valuable time
                for substantive work? In the meantime, we can launch
                this first-ever GGP effort, keep it narrow to make it
                efficient, and learn from it. <br>
                <br>
                I’ve attached an alternative GGP Initiation Request.
                Amendments and additional discussion are welcome<br>
                <br>
                <div>Sincerely,<br>
                  <br>
                  Kurt<br>
                  <br>
                   <br>
                </div>
              </div>
              <div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">
                <div><br>
                   <br>
                  <br>
                   <br>
                  <div><br>
                    <blockquote type="cite">
                      <div>On Jul 13, 2022, at 3:46 AM,
                        philippe.fouquart--- via council <<a href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">council@gnso.icann.org</a>>
                        wrote:</div>
                      <br>
                      <div>
                        <div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
                          <div style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                            Dear Councilors,</div>
                          <div style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                             </div>
                          <div style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                            <span lang="EN-US">Please find attached the
                              GNSO Guidance Process associated with the
                              motion circulated on Monday.</span></div>
                          <div style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                            <span lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
                          <div style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                            <span lang="EN-US">This version is intended
                              to incorporate comments made in The Hague,
                              notably on focusing on applicant support
                              and the flexibility bw a steering group
                              and subteams. A couple of additional
                              things that leadership would like to draw
                              your attention to in case you’d have an
                              opinion:</span></div>
                          <ul style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-top:0cm" type="disc">
                            <li style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                              <span lang="EN-US">the need for the<span> </span></span><span lang="EN-US">GNSO Liaison to the ODP to
                                be a (non voting) member</span><span lang="EN-US"><span> </span>(that’s under
                                5.)</span></li>
                            <li style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                              <span lang="EN-US">the explicit
                                acknowledgement that this group may
                                deliver their results after the
                                conclusion of the ODP or even the
                                Board’s vote. (under 7)</span></li>
                          </ul>
                          <div style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                            <span lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
                          <div style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                            <span lang="EN-US">Thanks.</span></div>
                          <div style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                            <span lang="EN-US">Regards,</span></div>
                          <div style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                            <span lang="EN-US">Philippe</span></div>
                          <div style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                            <span lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
                          <div style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                            <span lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
                          <div>
                            <div style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
                              <div style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                                <b><span>From:</span></b><span><span> </span>FOUQUART
                                  Philippe INNOV/NET<span> </span><br>
                                  <b>Sent:</b><span> </span>Monday, July
                                  11, 2022 5:14 PM<br>
                                  <b>To:</b><span> </span><a href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">council@gnso.icann.org</a><br>
                                  <b>Cc:</b><span> </span>'<a href="mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gnso-secs@icann.org</a>'
                                  <<a href="mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gnso-secs@icann.org</a>><br>
                                  <b>Subject:</b><span> </span>Motion
                                  for the Initiation of the GNSO
                                  Guidance Process on Applicant Support</span></div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <div style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                             </div>
                          <div style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                            Dear Councilors,</div>
                          <div style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                             </div>
                          <div style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                            <span lang="EN-US">Following our discussion
                              in The Hague, please find attached the
                              Motion for the Initiation of the GNSO
                              Guidance Process on Applicant Support
                              submitted to the July 21<sup>st</sup><span> </span>Council
                              meeting. It will be updated with the link
                              to the GGP within a few days.<span> </span></span></div>
                          <div style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                            <span lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
                          <div style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                            <span lang="EN-US">Regards,</span></div>
                          <div style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                            <span lang="EN-US">Philippe</span></div>
                          <div style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                            <span lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
                        </div>
                        <pre style="font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

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</pre>
                        <span id="m_5212892088803166171m_-5206968599387935362x_cid:61BAFF3A-856A-4EAB-9A34-DAEB4B0B5CA2"><SubProGGPInitiationRequest_13July2022.docx></span><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
                        <span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important">council
                          mailing list</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
                        <a href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">council@gnso.icann.org</a><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
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                        <br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
                        <span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
                        <span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important">By
                          submitting your personal data, you consent to
                          the processing of your personal data for
                          purposes of subscribing to this mailing list
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                          You can visit the Mailman link above to change
                          your membership status or configuration,
                          including unsubscribing, setting digest-style
                          delivery or disabling delivery altogether
                          (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.</span></div>
                    </blockquote>
                  </div>
                  <br>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
            _______________________________________________<br>
            council mailing list<br>
            <a href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">council@gnso.icann.org</a><br>
            <a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/council" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/council</a><br>
            <br>
            _______________________________________________<br>
            By submitting your personal data, you consent to the
            processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing
            to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy
            Policy (<a href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy</a>)
            and the website Terms of Service (<a href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos</a>).
            You can visit the Mailman link above to change your
            membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing,
            setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery
            altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.</div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset></fieldset>
      <pre>_______________________________________________
NCSG-PC mailing list
<a href="mailto:NCSG-PC@lists.ncsg.is" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">NCSG-PC@lists.ncsg.is</a>
<a href="https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
  </div>

</blockquote></div></div></div>