<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">The idea of the IPC designing a data protection course seems crazy. The IPC have already, multiple times, indicated loudly that they disagree with the leading legal experts in the field, such as the various legal advice obtained by ICANN, AND with the opinions of the DPAs. They’ve pretty much self identified as far outside the legal mainstream in the views they are promoting, and thus can’t be reasonably held as in any way suitable. <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I find the idea of course or briefing material that is produced by any one group inside ICANN to be a very bad one. <br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">David<br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 14 Jun 2018, at 6:25 am, Ayden Férdeline <<a href="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com" class="">icann@ferdeline.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="">Sorry but I think we need to regroup. </div>
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<div class="">I’m not sure we have an NCSG consensus here. </div>
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<div class="">I’m not comfortable with this. </div>
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<div class="">Courses should be neutral and not designed by a constituency or stakeholder group. </div>
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<div class="">Really, the IPC design the data protection course? Respectfully that is not their area of expertise. </div>
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<div class="">-Ayden</div>
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<div id="protonmail_mobile_signature_block" class="">Sent from ProtonMail Mobile</div>
<blockquote class="protonmail_quote" type="cite">---------- Forwarded message ----------
<br class="">From: Arsène Tungali<<a href="mailto:arsenebaguma@gmail.com" class="">arsenebaguma@gmail.com</a>>
<br class="">Date: On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 23:20
<br class="">Subject: Fwd: Re: [council] Suggestion for membership criteria of proposed Expedited Policy Development Process
<br class="">To: Austin, Donna <<a href="mailto:Donna.Austin@team.neustar" class="">Donna.Austin@team.neustar</a>>
<br class="">Cc: GNSO Council List <<a href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org" class="">council@gnso.icann.org</a>>
<br class="">This one kinda summarises the whole discussion, thanks Donna. I agree with you. To clarify: WG members will be selected by their respective groups (based on their own criteria), then these selected members will undertake a course/training that
some of our members have volunteered to design (including Paul), plus some people suggested by Rubens to help them have the same understanding of the scope of this WG. That's what I got from this discussion and which I find useful. Thanks, Arsene
2018-06-13 23:53 UTC+02:00, Austin, Donna via council
<council@gnso.icann.org class="">: > I think Marie has identified an important point. Each SG/SO will have their > own process for selecting and appointing their representatives/members to > the WG and in this regard I don’t think the Council can or should prescribe >
any part of that process. The Council can certainly provide guidance, as > Marie has suggested, but I don’t believe the Council will any authority to > reject any person from the WG that has been appointed by an SG/SO, because > they
don’t have not undertaken training in GDPR. > > That being the case, it does seem that there is a lot of support for the > idea that training of some form about GDPR would be a helpful. Perhaps, > rather than having the training as
a pre-requisite, the WG members will be > required to undertake a training course as a group early in their tenure. > Given the temporary specification is intended to find a way for contracted > parties to be compliant with the GDPR regulation
in a manner that maintains > the integrity of the WHOIS to the greatest extent possible, it would make > sense that any training course be developed in that context. As Erika noted, > GDPR is a complex law, but it does appear that there
are some elements that > are more relevant to our discussion than others, and some elements that have > no relevance at all. To that end, it would make more sense to have a > training session that is tailored to the scope of what we expect
will be > dealt with in the ePDP discussions. I would argue that we don’t need people > who are experts in the GDPR regulation on the WG, but we do need people who > are knowledgeable about its applicability in the ICANN context. By way
of > example, I believe the RySG and RrSG now have a lot more people that > understand GDPR and its impact on contracted parties than we did 12 months > ago and not because they took a course on GDPR, but because they have had to >
develop "practical, hands-on experience" to use Marie’s words, of GDPR in > the ICANN context. > > While we are spending a lot of time discussing the need or not for this GDPR > specific training, perhaps we could also give some thought
to other > knowledge and skillsets that we think would be beneficial for the ePDP WG so > that we can provide this feedback to the SG/SO for their respective > selection processes. > > Donna > From: council [<a href="mailto:council-bounces@gnso.icann.org" class="">mailto:council-bounces@gnso.icann.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Marie > Pattullo > Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 4:05 AM > To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight
<michele@blacknight.com class="">; Rubens Kuhl >
<rubensk@nic.br class="">; GNSO Council List
<council@gnso.icann.org class="">
> Subject: Re: [council] Suggestion for membership criteria of proposed > Expedited Policy Development Process > > I agree with all of that Michele. I’d also advance that as we will be asking > for the WG to be populated with reps of the
SGs/SOs etc., in the call for > members we should specify that we are counting on those groups to put > forward reps with the requisite – practical, hands-on – experience. > Marie > > From: council >
<council-bounces@gnso.icann.org class=""><mailto:council-bounces@gnso.icann.org class="">> On > Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight > Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 12:25 PM > To: Rubens Kuhl
<rubensk@nic.br class=""><mailto:rubensk@nic.br class="">>; GNSO Council List >
<council@gnso.icann.org class=""><mailto:council@gnso.icann.org class="">> > Subject: Re: [council] Suggestion for membership criteria of proposed > Expedited Policy Development Process > > Rubens > > I agree. > > The key point that I think many of us agree on is that
knowledge / training, > call it what you will, is highly beneficial in general. One of the issues we > ran into repeatedly in the RDS PDP was that people either were not familiar > with the subject matter beyond
their own, specific narrow interest and / or > they had little to no familiarity with how ICANN’s processes in terms of > policy development work. > > In the case of this ePDP any member of the group that is
eventually formed > will need to have a basic grounding in several key areas including privacy > and GDPR. > > While certification is "nice" I also agree that it should not be a > requirement and I would
have issues with ICANN paying thousands of Euro to > give people this kind of training. If someone wants to get certified in > privacy / GDPR or anything else I’m sure that will help them further their > careers,
but last time I checked neither ICANN as a whole nor the GNSO > specifically is a training camp for people. > > As for providing primers – I think it’s a good idea and if I can help I’d be > happy to. > >
Regards > > Michele > > > -- > Mr Michele Neylon > Blacknight Solutions > Hosting, Colocation & Domains > <a href="https://www.blacknight.com/" class="">https://www.blacknight.com/</a>
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> <a href="http://blacknight.blog/" class="">http://blacknight.blog/</a>
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> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 > Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 > Personal blog: > <a href="https://michele.blog/" class="">https://michele.blog/</a>
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> Some thoughts: > <a href="https://ceo.hosting/" class="">https://ceo.hosting/</a>
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> ------------------------------- > Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty > Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 > > From: council >
<council-bounces@gnso.icann.org class=""><mailto:council-bounces@gnso.icann.org class="">> on > behalf of Rubens Kuhl
<rubensk@nic.br class=""><mailto:rubensk@nic.br class="">> > Date: Wednesday 13 June 2018 at 02:11 > To: GNSO Council List >
<council@gnso.icann.org class=""><mailto:council@gnso.icann.org class="">> > Subject: Re: [council] Suggestion for membership criteria of proposed > Expedited Policy Development Process > > I'll repeat a point I made in chat today: requiring and providing
training > is not excluding, but requiring certification is. Actually, for who is > paying for the training, the actual knowledge is more important than the > certification, which only
benefits the certified person. So while I would > find reasonable that someone that happens to have a certification to excuse > himself/herself from the training, I don't see us establishing
a > certification as requisite. > > And if that changes the price, every certification (opposed to training) > should come on that person's dime, not GNSO's. And while I like IAPP
because > it seems to have a more neutral tone instead of the Europe x World > Manichaeism, I believe we could look at other options. > > As for themes, I think that the other than
GDPR could come from our internal > development efforts. For instance, picket fence, trademarks, abuse > investigation, registrar operations, RDAP... let me throw people under the >
bus without consulting them just to indicate how we could provide primer > sessions on these angles making for a "Renaissance" WG: > Picket Fence - Becky Burr > Trademarks - Heather
Forrest > Abuse investigation - Dave Piscitello > Registrar operations - Michele Neylon > RDAP - Scott Hollenbeck > > > Rubens > > > > > > On 12 Jun 2018,
at 11:51, McGrady, Paul D. >
<pmcgrady@winston.com class=""><mailto:pmcgrady@winston.com class="">> wrote: > > Thanks Carlos. > > Actually, you agree with me. I don’t think we should have any gatekeeping > barriers, such as IAPP certifications, designed to exclude anyone.
But, if > we are going to go down the path of exclusion, and I hope we don’t, it > shouldn’t just be for one privacy skill set which would result in an > unbalanced ePDP WG. I think
some 101 in both GDPR and Trademarks is more > than sufficient to ensure everyone on the ePDP WG has a common vocabulary. > I’m surprised by the resistance on the call today to the
idea and the > steadfast holding to the notion of gatekeeping IAPP certification which will > result in exclusions from the team and undermine its outcomes from Day 1. > > Best,
> Paul > > > > From: Carlos Raul Gutierrez [<a href="mailto:crg@isoc-cr.org" class="">mailto:crg@isoc-cr.org</a>] > Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 9:32 AM > To: McGrady, Paul D.
<pmcgrady@winston.com class=""><mailto:pmcgrady@winston.com class="">> > Cc: Ayden Férdeline
<icann@ferdeline.com class=""><mailto:icann@ferdeline.com class="">>; GNSO > Council List
<council@gnso.icann.org class=""><mailto:council@gnso.icann.org class="">> > Subject: Re: [council] Suggestion for membership criteria of proposed > Expedited Policy Development Process > > It was a very interesting Council call today, of
which I could only follow > the initial 2/3 or so. > After the call I went back to this ideas of Ayden and Paul, and I found > myself in disagreement with both of you.
> Maybe because I'm an economist that doesn't want to become a pseudo lawyer > in either trademark law or in data protection, my needs t o follow the ePDP > in case i'm
not qualified to participate (only to vote...) are different: > My question is to what degree does WHOIS have a bias for or against both, > trademark law and GDPR. As some
might know, we economist are all about > efficiency and efficiency loses. And my understanding is that any change in > WHOIS, either planned or imposed, creates great efficiency
losses to our > members of the CPH. And in some cases, those efficiency loses cost a lot of > money! > The Bonner Landesgericht put an interesting efficiency concept
on the table: > Datensparsamkeit. (something like be stingy with data -collection-). > So from my personal perspective, and I repeat, independently if I'm > qualified
or not to be a member of the ePDP, my basic question is and would > remain until we vote on the policy proposal, is how a new regulation that > looks for collecting LESS
data, can be an operational, or even financial > burden to the members of the CPH. > For that I don't need more knowledge on either Trademark and/or Privacy Law. > What
I need are hard facts, best expressed by numbers of dollars. > With that SOI, I express my interest to be part of the ePDP, either as > member, or else as unqualified bystander
with a vote on the final decision. > > Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez > ISOC Costa Rica Chapter > skype carlos.raulg > +506 8837 7176 > ________ > Apartado 1571-1000
> COSTA RICA > > On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 2:28 PM, McGrady, Paul D. >
<pmcgrady@winston.com class=""><mailto:pmcgrady@winston.com class="">> wrote: > Thanks Ayden. > > Tricky though, since those of us representing consumers that are protected > by intellectual property laws from confusing misuses of
marks often feel > that those participating in WG’s don’t understand the fundamentals of > trademark laws either. Certainly in the case of this EPDP we would want >
people to have the basics of trademark law as well. Perhaps instead of > using these useful skills sets as gatekeepers, we ask staff to develop > curriculum for the
first session or two hitting these two issues and setting > forth some basic vocabulary. I’d be happy to participate with staff in the > effort from the trademark side
if you would be happy to participate with > staff in the effort from the data protection side. > > Best, > Paul > > > Paul D. McGrady > > Partner
> > > Winston & Strawn LLP > 35 W. Wacker Drive > Chicago, IL 60601-9703 > > D: +1 312-558-5963 > > F: +1 312-558-5700 > > Bio
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> | > VCard
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> | Email
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> >
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> > > From: council > [<a href="mailto:council-bounces@gnso.icann.org" class="">mailto:council-bounces@gnso.icann.org</a>
<mailto:council-bounces@gnso.icann.org class="">] > On Behalf Of Ayden Férdeline > Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2018 3:12 PM > To: GNSO Council List >
<council@gnso.icann.org class=""><mailto:council@gnso.icann.org class="">> > Subject: [council] Suggestion for membership criteria of proposed Expedited > Policy Development Process > > Dear all, > >
I have just finished reviewing the proposed agenda for our meeting next week > along with the mindmap that Council leadership and staff have
developed > (thanks for doing this!). > > I would like to put forward a suggestion for the Expedited Policy > Development Process (EPDP)
team criteria. While the scope of the EPDP > remains unclear at present, what I took away from the call between the Board > and the Council
on Tuesday was that compliance with the law is crucial. As > such I think it is imperative that *all* members be able to demonstrate that >
they have a basic understanding of the principles and legal terms of data > protection. > > I would like to request that any community
member who is appointed to the > EPDP, or staff member supporting the EPDP, be able to demonstrate they have > completed at least 3 hours
of data protection training. I do not think this > would be a huge burden, but I think it would make work easier, as there > should be a
common understanding of essential terms. > > There are short half-day 'Data Protection 101' classes run by institutions > like the policy
neutral International Association of Privacy Professionals, > whose courses only use definitions of terms that have been defined in law >
for over 20 years. > > For those who don't hold this certification, I would like to request that > ICANN reimburse the members of the
EPDP for their modest and reasonable > costs in obtaining it. > > I would like to hear your thoughts here, however I would also like to
ask > that this suggestion please be given serious consideration. Thank you. > > Best wishes, > Ayden Férdeline > > ________________________________
> The contents of this message may be privileged and confidential. If this > message has been received in error, please delete it without
reading it. > Your receipt of this message is not intended to waive any applicable > privilege. Please do not disseminate this message without
the permission of > the author. Any tax advice contained in this email was not intended to be > used, and cannot be used, by you (or any
other taxpayer) to avoid penalties > under applicable tax laws and regulations. > > _______________________________________________ >
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> > _______________________________________________ > council mailing list > <a href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org" class="">council@gnso.icann.org</a>
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> > -- ------------------------ **Arsène Tungali*
<http: about.me="" arsenetungali="" class="">* Co-Founder & Executive Director, *Rudi international
<http: www.rudiinternational.org="" class="">*, CEO,* Smart Services Sarl
<https: www.smart-kitoko.com="" class=""></https:>*, *Mabingwa Forum
<http: www.mabingwa-forum.com="" class="">* Tel: +243 993810967 GPG: 523644A0 *Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo* 2015 Mandela Washington Felllow
<http: tungali.blogspot.com="" 2015="" 06="" selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html="" class="">
(YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF Brazil
<http: www.internetsociety.org="" what-we-do="" education-and-leadership-programmes="" next-generation-leaders="" igf-ambassadors-programme="" past-ambassadors="" class="">
& Mexico
<http: www.internetsociety.org="" what-we-do="" education-and-leadership-programmes="" next-generation-leaders="" current-ambassadors="" class="">) - AFRISIG 2016
<http: afrisig.org="" afrisig-2016="" class-of-2016="" class=""></http:>- Blogger
<http: tungali.blogspot.com="" class="">- ICANN's GNSO Council
<https: gnso.icann.org="" en="" about="" gnso-council.htm="" class="">Member. AFRINIC Fellow ( Mauritius
<http: www.afrinic.net="" en="" library="" news="" 1907-afrinic-25-fellowship-winners="" class="">)* - *IGFSA Member
<http: www.igfsa.org="" class=""></http:>- Internet Governance - Internet Freedom. Check the *2016 State of Internet Freedom
in DRC* report (English
<http: cipesa.org="" ?wpfb_dl="234" class="">) and (French
<http: cipesa.org="" ?wpfb_dl="242" class="">) _______________________________________________ council mailing list <a href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org" class="">council@gnso.icann.org</a>
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