<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Yes. We need to find consensus in the end, I think it is useful to make that obvious rather than go through a few rounds of voting just to make it clear that a non-consensus candidate does not have the necessary numbers. <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I think it is absolutely in NCSGs strategic interest to block vote when CSG block votes, to make any process that attempts to bypass seeking consensus or negotiating with NCSG as a whole fail. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">David</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 17 Feb 2018, at 12:18 am, avri doria <<a href="mailto:avri@apc.org" class="">avri@apc.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">(observer)</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Hi,</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Re finding consensus on a candidate: Isn't this what has has happened</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">every time after going through a long voting process and failing. Seems</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">reasonable to just get this step out of the way as the next step after</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">collecting names, reading statements and doing interviews. And it is</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">less divisive then candidates getting a majority but never the</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">supermajority (8) required.</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Since they most always vote in a block, an NCSG candidate cannot win</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">unless they agree in the first place. All NCSG voters can do, assuming</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">NCSG sticks with non block voting is to decide to accept their candidate</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">or not. And if NCSG votes in block, it insures a deadlock. It has</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">always come down to negotiation among the leadership, so it might make</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">sense to just formalize that step as an early step.</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">avri</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">On 16-Feb-18 00:36, David Cake wrote:</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">The only problem with the procedure is that it takes the really<br class="">difficult parts of the process, and turns it into ‘seek consensus’,<br class="">which practically may need a lot more detail. Though some of that<br class="">detail may be more useful to do ad hoc depending on number of<br class="">interested candidates etc, and there probably really is no useful way<br class="">to make consensus easier to find purely through process, and it’s<br class="">valuable to make it very clear tha5 consensus is required.<br class=""><br class=""> Also, while full consensus is clearly ideal, should probably be<br class="">‘rough consensus’, we need a clear 8+ votes not unanimity (we don’t<br class="">want to allow any single councillor to derail the process). But I<br class="">thoroughly agree that seeking rough consensus between the SGs before<br class="">the ballot is the only practical functional process. <br class="">Running against NOTA serves as a useful check on attempts to game<br class="">negotiations, and is needed for formality. <br class=""><br class="">David<br class=""><br class="">Sent from my iPad<br class=""><br class="">On 13 Feb 2018, at 7:49 am, farzaneh badii <<a href="mailto:farzaneh.badii@gmail.com" class="">farzaneh.badii@gmail.com</a><br class=""><<a href="mailto:farzaneh.badii@gmail.com" class="">mailto:farzaneh.badii@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">Thank you Raoul. Your proposal was based on having multiple<br class="">candidates if I am not mistaken. When we did our research, based on<br class="">past experience (3 elections and some of them reached deadlocks,<br class="">Rafik can elaborate) having multiple candidates to vote on is not in<br class="">the interest of NCSG. What worked well for NCSG and CSG in previous<br class="">elections is to discuss until they come up with one consensus<br class="">candidate to vote on. <br class=""><br class="">As to NOTA, it has been used at GNSO chair election and during the<br class="">last Board seat election NCSG discussed using it. it is common<br class="">practice in GNSO elections.<br class="">Threshold of 8: 6 NCSG Council members, 6 CSG council members, 1 NCA<br class="">. 13 to vote, the majority is 8, [ it also avoid the risk that NCA<br class="">plays a tie-breaker here].<br class=""><br class="">Based on our research again, it does make sense to have an election<br class="">with one candidate. We have always insisted on holding elections in<br class="">the past and it is needed for formality and procedural matter. <br class=""><br class="">If the consensus candidate has been found and goes through the<br class="">election, he or she will most probably beat the NOTA. If not, there<br class="">certainly is a problem and it makes sense to re-start the process to<br class="">solve that between the 2 groups.<br class=""><br class="">Best<br class=""><br class="">Farzaneh <br class=""><br class="">(this message is also being sent to NCSG-PC, PC can see Raoul's<br class="">response below.)<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">Farzaneh<br class=""><br class="">On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 6:22 AM, Raoul Plommer <<a href="mailto:plommer@gmail.com" class="">plommer@gmail.com</a><br class=""><<a href="mailto:plommer@gmail.com" class="">mailto:plommer@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br class=""><br class=""> I'm a little disappointed, that neither you or Rafik even<br class=""> commented on my earlier proposal, which I think is somewhat clearer.<br class=""><br class=""> Questions on your proposal:<br class=""><br class=""> 1) Why is there a NOTA? Has that actually ever made things easier?<br class=""> 2) Why is there a threshold of 8 votes for winning?<br class=""> 3) Does a joint NCPH interview mean that candidates and<br class=""> interviewers will be from both SGs?<br class=""><br class=""> NCSG, CSG and NCA leaders have to agree on one consensus<br class=""> candidate to run for the election.<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""> 4) This actually says that consensus would be reached for only<br class=""> candidate and then it would not make sense to have elections<br class=""> anymore. I think you meant that both SGs decide on their best<br class=""> candidate but what would then be the consensus candidate of the NCA?<br class=""><br class=""> I think the worst part of your proposal is, that it will be<br class=""> relatively hard to secure all of those eight votes and if it<br class=""> doesn't happen, the whole thing is restarted god knows how many<br class=""> times.<br class=""><br class=""> For those of you that missed it, here's my proposal:<br class=""><br class=""> /Let's have two rounds, where on the second round we have only<br class=""> the two candidates that got most votes in the first round. In<br class=""> case the first round results in a tie of three or more<br class=""> candidates, the SG that has two or more candidates has to choose<br class=""> one for the second round. Both SGs would have one candidate each<br class=""> on the second round, despite the results in the first round.<br class=""><br class=""> /<br class=""> /Having the first round with more than two candidates, means that<br class=""> all the NCPH councilors get a say on the best candidates, instead<br class=""> of just their own stakeholder group. This way, we can get the<br class=""> opinion of all the NCPH councilors on the prospective candidates<br class=""> through votes, instead of trying to guess which of the SG's<br class=""> candidates would go through better.<br class=""><br class=""> /<br class=""> /Also, we could make the vote anonymously, to also avoid peer<br class=""> pressure from inside the stakeholder group. The amount of<br class=""> candidates for the first round can not exceed the amount of GNSO<br class=""> councilors in the SG. /<br class=""><br class=""> -Raoul<br class=""><br class=""> On 12 February 2018 at 02:34, farzaneh badii via NCSG-EC<br class=""> <<a href="mailto:ncsg-ec@lists.ncsg.is" class="">ncsg-ec@lists.ncsg.is</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:ncsg-ec@lists.ncsg.is" class="">mailto:ncsg-ec@lists.ncsg.is</a>>> wrote:<br class=""><br class=""> We need to keep the Board seat 14 election procedure simple<br class=""> and based on our past experience. Rafik and I came up with<br class=""> this procedure to propose to the small group which we decided<br class=""> to convene during the intersessional. We want to kick start<br class=""> that group by Wednesday so if you have any comments let me<br class=""> know before that. Note that you can still send your comments<br class=""> when we have started the group, we can consider them when<br class=""> discussing with the drafting team. we will meet in PR to<br class=""> finalize this. <br class=""><br class=""> The procedure is attached. <br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""> Farzaneh<br class=""><br class=""> _______________________________________________<br class=""> NCSG-EC mailing list<br class=""> <a href="mailto:NCSG-EC@lists.ncsg.is" class="">NCSG-EC@lists.ncsg.is</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:NCSG-EC@lists.ncsg.is" class="">mailto:NCSG-EC@lists.ncsg.is</a>><br class=""> <a href="https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec" class="">https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec</a><br class=""> <<a href="https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec" class="">https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-ec</a>><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">NCSG-PC mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:NCSG-PC@lists.ncsg.is" class="">NCSG-PC@lists.ncsg.is</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:NCSG-PC@lists.ncsg.is" class="">mailto:NCSG-PC@lists.ncsg.is</a>><br class=""><a href="https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc" class="">https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc</a><br class=""></blockquote><br class=""><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">NCSG-PC mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:NCSG-PC@lists.ncsg.is" class="">NCSG-PC@lists.ncsg.is</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc" class="">https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc</a><br class=""></blockquote><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">NCSG-PC mailing list</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="mailto:NCSG-PC@lists.ncsg.is" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">NCSG-PC@lists.ncsg.is</a><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc</a></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>