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    <p>Hi all,</p>
    <p>Ayden, thanks for the proposal. However, I can support each and
      every of Rafik's arguments. Especially about using travel as
      incentive and anything about what kind of time and efforts and
      logistics two-days travel entails. I am for trying on-line meeting
      and if it doesn't work and there is a real need for F2F (which I
      am not convinced of) -- contemplating it. However, with all this,
      I don't think it's a PC decision. It's EC's remit, so this should
      be discussed there.</p>
    <p>Cheers,</p>
    <p>Tanya <br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 15/01/18 02:39, Rafik Dammak wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAH5sThmd7hvPRd7ZO1Ra2bt6nNPxLrKgxeEWVtdhm181vVTT_Q@mail.gmail.com">
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      <div dir="ltr">
        <div class="gmail_extra">Hi,</div>
        <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_extra">Thanks for the proposal. </div>
        <div class="gmail_extra">As I stated before, I am not in favor
          of this request. I will try to elaborate more and respond to
          some arguments. In term of procedure, ABRs is more in the
          remit of EC and FC, the proposal would have to go through
          them. </div>
        <div class="gmail_extra">
          <ul>
            <li>I heard the argument several times about having short
              meetings may be more bearable than long ones. however, it
              seems not taking into consideration that 2 days meetings
              would include also 2 days traveling ( regardless a short
              or long itinerary). I will also highlight that in our last
              community support comment, we were suggesting that we
              should arrive earlier. I guess people also need to
              recuperate after a travel regardless if it is held during
              a weekend or not. I am not going to talk about the time
              needed prior to such meeting to get a visa even if we skip
              the USA as location. I understand there are personal
              preferences but I think we need to assess in term of
              fairness and inclusivity. </li>
            <li>I am concerned about the argument to use travel as an
              incentive for 2 reasons. it is giving the impression that
              involvement in ICANN and NCSG equals traveling and so
              dismissing the real intercessional work that is done most
              of the time. It is also not scalable neither sustainable
              in long term and we had examples of supported travelers
              who never became active or not as expected.<br>
            </li>
            <li>there is no real risk of "prying eyes" if the meeting is
              closed and I guess that is the intent. if there is remote
              participation, we can check who access to AC or phone
              bridge but I guess the recording will be public anyway.<br>
            </li>
            <li>if it is about PC strategical planning, I am not sure
              how it can be a different set of attendees in particular
              for the case of councilors. if it is for the wider NCSG, I
              guess that will still include officers since they will are
              supposed to implement such planning and likely attending
              the other meeting. <br>
            </li>
            <li>there are a non-negligible logistics and planning for
              any meeting. I participated in intersessional planning and
              currently in a strategical council meeting. It is
              time-consuming and needs works, it doesn't happen just
              like that. in fact, I am concerned about the current
              intersessional in term of NCSG readiness (not sure of
              co-chairs already started to prepare for their sessions
              and we are just 2 weeks away). We need to be mindful of
              how to spend our scare time and attention.<br>
            </li>
          </ul>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_extra">Professionalization means using
          effectively and efficiently existing resources and not asking
          for more for sake of doing it. I am more in favor to think
          this carefully and create mechanisms to get input about
          strategy and planning and not just think everything in term of
          meetings. I would support the idea made by Farzaneh to start
          first with an online meeting to see how it works and what we
          can do concretely. </div>
        <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_extra">Best,</div>
        <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_extra">Rafik</div>
        <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
          <div class="gmail_quote">2018-01-15 7:43 GMT+09:00 Ayden
            Férdeline <span dir="ltr"><<a
                href="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com" target="_blank"
                moz-do-not-send="true">icann@ferdeline.com</a>></span>:<br>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
              .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
              <div>Hi Farell,<br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Thanks for reviewing the additional budgetary request
                so thoroughly. I wanted to take a few moments to expand
                upon my thinking as to why I believe this should be
                separate to other events like the Intersessional.<br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Firstly, it is of course true that we have a few
                different sessions like this taking place. As you
                rightly mentioned we have the two-day Intersessional,
                and we have the new, three-day GNSO Council Strategic
                Planning Session. This year these two sessions have been
                blended together, creating a five-day time commitment
                for participants. <br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>To add on to this our Policy Committee session would
                make it a seven-day meeting. I don't know about you, but
                I know from my own experience at ICANN meetings that I
                become burnt out after five days. If we made this
                meeting longer it could become less effective.<br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>There is also the question of audience, and there are
                two prongs here. One, we want to have a strategy session
                away from prying eyes. To do it at roughly the same time
                as we have colleagues from the contracted and
                non-contracted parties (on Council) or with our
                colleagues from the Commercial Stakeholders Group
                (Intersessional) could prove disadvantageous. Two, and
                perhaps more importantly, the audience we invite to the
                Intersessional and to the Council Strategic Planning
                Session should necessarily be different.<br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>As we grow and professionalise the NCSG we need to
                share the burden of work better. In time I imagine the
                participant balance for these three sessions would be
                different. When we blend meetings together the
                organisation allocates less resources to support travel,
                and we find ourselves, partly out of necessity, having
                to invite the same voices to each. We might want to
                rethink this; we do not necessarily need the same
                participants, but could see this session as an
                individual team 'retreat' (in a few years time I hope we
                can add on a separate Campaigns Strategic Planning
                Session, when we have an Advocacy Committee or something
                like that). It sustains the momentum of our work. It
                gives another 'carrot' to our members to become involved
                in our activities in a more specialised capacity.<br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>I think it is also worth noting that, in the case of
                the Intersessional, four out of the last five
                Intersessionals have been held in the United States,
                because three-quarters of the delegates are from the US.
                Given our membership is more diverse and many of our
                members have obstacles obtaining US visas, piggybacking
                onto a meeting that is typically held Stateside might
                not work for us.<br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Finally, for some of us, it is easier to take 2 days
                off than it is 5 or 7. When we host a meeting
                independent to others we have total flexibility over the
                dates and the location (within reason). We could, for
                instance, host this session over a weekend — that might
                make it easier for our volunteers with families, jobs,
                or other non-ICANN participants to be able to
                participate — or in a location where we are confident
                the majority of the participants will have no obstacles
                traveling to, be that because of distance or visas.</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Looking forward to hearing your thoughts,<br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Ayden<br>
              </div>
              <div class="m_7265449605536154544HOEnZb">
                <div class="m_7265449605536154544h5">
                  <div
class="m_7265449605536154544m_6417933470796377840protonmail_signature_block">
                    <div
class="m_7265449605536154544m_6417933470796377840protonmail_signature_block-proton
m_7265449605536154544m_6417933470796377840protonmail_signature_block-empty"><br>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <blockquote
                    class="m_7265449605536154544m_6417933470796377840protonmail_quote"
                    type="cite">
                    <div>-------- Original Message --------<br>
                    </div>
                    <div>Subject: Re: [NCSG-PC] [Suggestion] Additional
                      Budgetary Request - NCSG PC Strategic Planning
                      Session<br>
                    </div>
                    <div>Local Time: 14 January 2018 9:18 PM<br>
                    </div>
                    <div>UTC Time: 14 January 2018 20:18<br>
                    </div>
                    <div>From: <a href="mailto:farellfolly@gmail.com"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">farellfolly@gmail.com</a><br>
                    </div>
                    <div>To: Ayden Férdeline <<a
                        href="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">icann@ferdeline.com</a>><br>
                    </div>
                    <div>ncsg-pc <<a
                        href="mailto:ncsg-pc@lists.ncsg.is"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">ncsg-pc@lists.ncsg.is</a>><br>
                    </div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="ltr">
                      <div>Hello Ayden,<br>
                      </div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div>This is a very good idea. I am in full
                        support of it and as you said the staff should
                        be minimal to avoid a high increase in budget. <br>
                      </div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <div>There are another strategic meetings such
                          as the intercessional where many members of
                          the PC already participate. Can we just
                          propose to colocate both and conduct this PC
                          strategic after or before? It will cost only
                          additional days for accomodation for those who
                          already participate to the intercessional and
                          travel tickets for the remaining members,
                          instead of a complete new logistic plan !<br>
                        </div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div class="gmail_quote">
                          <div dir="ltr">Le dim. 14 janv. 2018 à 14:47,
                            Ayden Férdeline <<a
                              href="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">icann@ferdeline.com</a>>
                            a écrit :<br>
                          </div>
                          <blockquote style="margin:0 0 0
                            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                            solid;padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
                            <div>Hi, all-<br>
                            </div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>I have drafted an additional budgetary
                              request that I suggest we submit. <a
                                rel="nofollow"
title="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1D_pp_PFOnx6ZiK3qX9CuLanAraIHIyOAHG1JYPJciOY/edit?usp=sharing"
href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1D_pp_PFOnx6ZiK3qX9CuLanAraIHIyOAHG1JYPJciOY/edit?usp=sharing"
                                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">It
                                is on Google Docs here</a> and edits are
                              welcomed, of course. I'm not sure whether
                              we as the PC can submit this or if we
                              should escalate it (if we support the
                              proposal) to the NCSG EC to submit
                              instead? Matters of process aside, the
                              general gist of the proposal is as
                              follows:<br>
                            </div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div><i>The NCSG Policy Committee is growing
                                in activity, responding to more requests
                                for public comment than ever before in
                                its history. To sustain this momentum,
                                the NCSG Policy Committee would like to
                                request support to conduct a two-day,
                                face-to-face planning session during
                                FY19. Such a session would allow the
                                Officers of the NCSG Policy Committee to
                                develop an appropriate and ambitious
                                work plan for the year ahead, to
                                negotiate and determine NCSG positions
                                on pressing issues, and, for the first
                                time, to draft a five-year strategic
                                plan for the Policy Committee’s
                                activities. This is a session which we
                                would like to hold outside of the
                                setting of a traditional ICANN meeting.
                                While the Policy Committee does meet
                                during ICANN meetings, given our
                                Officers involvement in other working
                                groups and on the GNSO Council, there is
                                never enough time to think about our
                                more long-term objectives. This session
                                would allow us to develop a work plan
                                for both the next 12 months, and at a
                                higher level, for the next five years,
                                and is best suited to being held in
                                isolation away from the pressures of our
                                other ICANN commitments. This session
                                would be largely self-organised with
                                minimal staff support required.</i><br>
                            </div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>The deadline for submitting additional
                              budgetary requests is 31 January, so I
                              would like to suggest that we add this to
                              the agenda for our upcoming policy call to
                              discuss further. Thanks!<br>
                            </div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>Best,<br>
                            </div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>Ayden<br>
                            </div>
                            <div>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
                            </div>
                            <div> NCSG-PC mailing list<br>
                            </div>
                            <div> <a
                                href="mailto:NCSG-PC@lists.ncsg.is"
                                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">NCSG-PC@lists.ncsg.is</a><br>
                            </div>
                            <div> <span
                                class="m_7265449605536154544TSRSpan"
                                id="m_7265449605536154544TSRSpan_324"><img
class="m_7265449605536154544TSRWebRatingIcon"
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src="chrome-extension://cfeleongjhdjephegmmmdjgbfjiindbe/./images/webicon_gray.png"
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                                rel="noreferrer"
                                href="https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc"
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                                moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/ncsg-pc</a><br>
                            </div>
                          </blockquote>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div>-- <br>
                    </div>
                    <div data-smartmail="gmail_signature"
                      class="m_7265449605536154544m_6417933470796377840gmail_signature"
                      dir="ltr">
                      <div dir="ltr">
                        <div>Regards<br>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <div>@__f_f__<br>
                          </div>
                          <div><span
                              class="m_7265449605536154544TSRSpan"
                              id="m_7265449605536154544TSRSpan_325"><img
class="m_7265449605536154544TSRWebRatingIcon"
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src="chrome-extension://cfeleongjhdjephegmmmdjgbfjiindbe/./images/webicon_green.png"
                                style="width: 16px; height: 16px;
                                border: 0px;" moz-do-not-send="true"></span><a
                              href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/farellf"
                              style="background-color:rgb(184,234,184)"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.linkedin.com/in/fa<wbr>rellf</a>
                             <br>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </blockquote>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
              <br>
              ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
              NCSG-PC mailing list<br>
              <a href="mailto:NCSG-PC@lists.ncsg.is" target="_blank"
                moz-do-not-send="true">NCSG-PC@lists.ncsg.is</a><br>
              <a href="https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc"
                rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/ncsg-pc</a><br>
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      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
NCSG-PC mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:NCSG-PC@lists.ncsg.is">NCSG-PC@lists.ncsg.is</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc">https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc</a>
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