<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Farzi,</div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>My point was also meant to be for organizations, of mediator and arbitrators, not only individuals. And the organizations with the skills to do something like this are very far from Family courts problems, if they do family law for some reason is about a lot of money being split rather social problems, they might be closer to environmental problems, for instance, or consumer issues, but again, in both cases commercial and transactions are usually the way to solve the problem, and what I said previously still applies.<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>And it is not true that is easier to terminate a contract with a consultant (organization or individual) than with an employee. Specially in the US. It is far more easy to fire one person or a small team for arbitrary reasons that breaking a contract with a good law firm (specially a long term contract). In such case ICANN might end up negotiating and exit and gathering the evidence for a rightful termination is harder than with your own employees. We have better chances on controlling the accountability and transparency of a full time in house employee than an external institution that will have several clients, cases and partner, employees and providers coming and going. For instance, we don’t control how they handle information, and is not as weird as you may think, big companies usually get differential treatment, arbitrators more often than not shared schools, universities, neighbourhoods and friends with big lawyers from firms and companies. <div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>I think we can come up with a system with a third party solution eventually, but I just don’t see that it will solve the problems we have with the in-house solution and it brings new problems on there table. I would propose to be more specific in the this wi would change to the current situations, but with the in-house full time scheme.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">As usual, I will always support the consensus of the group, take this as an honest opinion before closing the matter.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Cheers,</div><div class="">Martín</div><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 4 Jan 2018, at 19:24, farzaneh badii <<a href="mailto:farzaneh.badii@gmail.com" class="">farzaneh.badii@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Martin,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">We are suggesting an organization not a consulting individual. Ombuds and mediation service providers can be trained mediators that resolve many disputes (commercial and noncommercial). Mediation offices also resolve divorce disputes which are highly sensitive and not always commercial, or they resolve neighbor disputes etc. So they don't have to be focused on commercial dispute. Some valid points about arbitration services but what we are suggesting does not have to be an arbitration provider nor a law firm. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">As to knowledge about DNS and multistakeholder model, that can be gained. As it was gained by previous ombuds persons at ICANN. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">As to easier to detect an in-house ombudsman misbehaving: ok, we can argue over this but even if that is the case I don't think it's easier to cancel someone's contract whose livelihood is dependent on it than to end a contract with an organization. </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all" class=""><div class=""><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><font face="verdana, sans-serif" class="">Farzaneh </font></div></div></div></div>
<br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 11:23 AM, Martin Pablo Silva Valent <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:mpsilvavalent@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">mpsilvavalent@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space" class="">Tati and Ayden,<div class=""><span class="m_-674780067885808808Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>I personally I’ve not made up my mind that a third party, a consultant, is going to guarantee independence in the Ombudsman role. Most of arbitrators, law firm or other organizations with the background to do this are heavily business sided or, unaware of the multi stakeholder model, DNS and Internet Governance in general. It is far more easy to detect an in-house ombudsman misbehaving than an outsider you only see in a room or in an email. Even if we found someone big and neutral enough, the big ones will always have more access to them than the res of us.<div class=""><div class=""><span class="m_-674780067885808808Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>Business, law firms and governments will always try as hard as they can to bend the process and lobby, we are not going to change that and we for sure can keep up with it, but if that lobby is forced to be done in the inside of icann, with someone that is solely dedicated to the ombudsman role and who’s socializing is openly known and transparent, that cannot hide behind appointments or emails, the is far more easy for us to notice, point out and document. </div><div class=""><span class="m_-674780067885808808Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>I do agree with the critics that the role has become much more demanding and important, and the current way it is built is outdated to the size and role of ICANN, specially after the IANA Transition. So we should demand for more documentation, deeper informs, more transparency and more rules and procedures, not so much for complaints, but for the ombudsman itself. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Cheers,</div><div class="">Martín</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="h5"><div class="">On 4 Jan 2018, at 12:23, Ayden Férdeline <<a href="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com" target="_blank" class="">icann@ferdeline.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="m_-674780067885808808Apple-interchange-newline"></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="h5"><div class="">Thanks for this, Tanya. I've made some minor edits to the document now, making the language a little more forceful, where appropriate, and also expanding upon the third point. Thanks for considering accepting them.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="m_-674780067885808808protonmail_signature_block"><div class="m_-674780067885808808protonmail_signature_block-user"><div class="">—Ayden <br class=""></div></div><div class="m_-674780067885808808protonmail_signature_block-empty m_-674780067885808808protonmail_signature_block-proton"><br class=""></div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class="m_-674780067885808808protonmail_quote"><div class="">-------- Original Message --------<br class=""></div><div class="">Subject: [NCSG-PC] Public comment on Ombuds Office<br class=""></div><div class="">Local Time: 4 January 2018 4:07 PM<br class=""></div><div class="">UTC Time: 4 January 2018 15:07<br class=""></div><div class="">From: <a href="mailto:t.tropina@mpicc.de" target="_blank" class="">t.tropina@mpicc.de</a><br class=""></div><div class="">To: ncsg-pc <<a href="mailto:ncsg-pc@lists.ncsg.is" target="_blank" class="">ncsg-pc@lists.ncsg.is</a>><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class="">Dear all,<br class=""></div><div class=""> <br class=""></div><div class=""> Farzaneh and I drafted a comment on the CCWG-Accountability Work Stream<br class=""></div><div class=""> 2 (WS2) draft recommendations on the ICANN Ombuds Office (IOO). The call<br class=""></div><div class=""> for comment and all the documents related to it could be found here:<br class=""></div><div class=""> <a href="https://www.icann.org/public-comments/ioo-recs-2017-11-10-en" target="_blank" class="">https://www.icann.org/public-<wbr class="">comments/ioo-recs-2017-11-10-<wbr class="">en</a>.<br class=""></div><div class=""> <br class=""></div><div class=""> Our draft is here:<br class=""></div><div class=""> <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LrMcu3zsTTyk1DG-2dbBMgzwjjxYxl-aHaYIS-iIGpQ/edit?usp=sharing" target="_blank" class="">https://docs.google.com/<wbr class="">document/d/1LrMcu3zsTTyk1DG-<wbr class="">2dbBMgzwjjxYxl-aHaYIS-iIGpQ/<wbr class="">edit?usp=sharing</a><br class=""></div><div class=""> <br class=""></div><div class=""> I will share the document with the list in the incoming days, would be<br class=""></div><div class=""> grateful if PC comments and amends it first -- or at least if you let<br class=""></div><div class=""> us, the penholders, know that you are comfortable with it. The deadline<br class=""></div><div class=""> is 14th of January, so we have some time, but would be great if it<br class=""></div><div class=""> remains open for comments from our membership, too.<br class=""></div><div class=""> <br class=""></div><div class=""> Cheers,<br class=""></div><div class=""> <br class=""></div><div class=""> Tanya<br class=""></div><div class=""> <br class=""></div></div><div class=""><hr class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class="">NCSG-PC mailing list<br class=""></div><div class=""> <a href="mailto:NCSG-PC@lists.ncsg.is" target="_blank" class="">NCSG-PC@lists.ncsg.is</a><br class=""></div><div class=""> <a href="https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/<wbr class="">listinfo/ncsg-pc</a><br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></div>______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<span class=""><br class="">NCSG-PC mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:NCSG-PC@lists.ncsg.is" target="_blank" class="">NCSG-PC@lists.ncsg.is</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/<wbr class="">listinfo/ncsg-pc</a><br class=""></span></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></div></div><br class="">______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class="">
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