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<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">Fair enough. Let's
have a bit of a discussion on the pc, about how people feel.</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">Stephanie</font></font><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2017-10-13 17:49, Martin Pablo Silva
Valent wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:409BE888-34CC-4CAE-A81F-091675409B96@gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<div class="">I’ve been following the doc, it looks great. I would
be much more mellow and diplomatic in the las paragraph, not
threaten things, like going public with a campaign with data
protection agencies. I think we shouldn’t promote agencies as
policeman of ICANN, I understand we are waiving that in the
event the multi-stakeholder model fails to include as as
stakeholder, yet, I wouldn’t set that as precedent and I do not
recommend to make it before the actual exclusion of the process
happen, much less by by written official letter. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I do believe that we have to talk about alternative
strategies, but not in a letter like this, is a very big threat
with deep implication, I wouldn’t recommend to go with that nor
sign it as official NCSG position. Reminder: ONLY ABOUT THE LAST
PARAGRAPH, the rest looks amazing and I still think we should
make clear the point we must be taken in account. Just take away
the threat. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Cheers,</div>
<div class="">Martín</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Oct 13, 2017, at 6:42 PM, Ayden Férdeline
<<a href="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">icann@ferdeline.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">Thanks
Stephanie, I tend to agree. I have attached a copy of the
letter which includes the Chair's name.<br class="">
</div>
<div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
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</div>
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<div class="protonmail_signature_block-user">
<div class="">Ayden <br class="">
</div>
</div>
<div class="protonmail_signature_block-proton
protonmail_signature_block-empty"><br class="">
</div>
</div>
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</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="protonmail_quote"
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<div class="">-------- Original Message --------<br
class="">
</div>
<div class="">Subject: Re: [NCSG-PC] [Draft] Letter to
ICANN re: BC and IPC correspondence<br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Local Time: 13 October 2017 10:33 PM<br
class="">
</div>
<div class="">UTC Time: 13 October 2017 21:33<br class="">
</div>
<div class="">From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="">To: Ayden Férdeline <<a
href="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">icann@ferdeline.com</a>><br
class="">
</div>
<div class=""><a href="mailto:ncsg-pc@lists.ncsg.is"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">ncsg-pc@lists.ncsg.is</a><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a
href="mailto:ncsg-pc@lists.ncsg.is" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">ncsg-pc@lists.ncsg.is</a>><br
class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<p class=""><span class="size"><span class="font"
style="font-family: 'Lucida Grande';">It should be
signed by the Chair on behalf of, in my view.</span></span><br
class="">
</p>
<p class=""><span class="size"><span class="font"
style="font-family: 'Lucida Grande';">cheers Steph</span></span><br
class="">
</p>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2017-10-13 17:27, Ayden
Férdeline wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">Hi all,<br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I have done some final polishing to the
letter, and have attached a proposed final draft. I
hope we may be able to reach agreement soon on sending
this letter. Also - I was wondering, should it carry a
name, perhaps of the Chair, or is it okay to be signed
'NCSG'?<br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="protonmail_signature_block">
<div class="protonmail_signature_block-user">
<div class="">Many thanks, Ayden <br class="">
</div>
</div>
<div class="protonmail_signature_block-proton
protonmail_signature_block-empty"><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<blockquote class="protonmail_quote" type="cite">
<div class="">-------- Original Message --------<br
class="">
</div>
<div class="">Subject: Re: [NCSG-PC] [Draft] Letter to
ICANN re: BC and IPC correspondence<br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Local Time: 13 October 2017 7:59 PM<br
class="">
</div>
<div class="">UTC Time: 13 October 2017 18:59<br
class="">
</div>
<div class="">From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">icann@ferdeline.com</a><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="">To: Stephanie Perrin<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca"
moz-do-not-send="true"><stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca></a>,<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:ncsg-pc@lists.ncsg.is"
moz-do-not-send="true">ncsg-pc@lists.ncsg.is</a><br
class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I think it is the perfect tone for this
letter. As we saw in Hong Kong this month,
our public silence is being manipulated and used to
make the false claim that we are being consulted
with and are an integral part of ICANN's efforts to
comply with the GDPR, when we are not. Thanks for
these edits Stephanie. We need to reshape the
narrative and get it all documented. <br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">Ayden Férdeline<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="">Sent from ProtonMail Mobile<br
class="">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 7:14 pm,
Stephanie Perrin <<a class=""
href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca"
moz-do-not-send="true">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="protonmail_quote">
<p class=""><span class="size"><span class="font"
style="font-family: 'Lucida Grande';">I
jumped in today (apologies for being
anonymous, always forget my google password)
and made quite a few changes. I like the
idea, but I think we should be a bit more
specific. In terms of informing the
DPAs....Swineheart is trying to get people
to the IWGDPT meeting in Paris, I think
everyone has been briefed at the data
commissioners meeting in Hong kong (remember
a whole crew from ICANN went) that there is
a draft statement coming. So they know we
have been briefing them for two years, we
need to sharpen that a bit.</span></span><br
class="">
</p>
<p class=""><span class="size"><span class="font"
style="font-family: 'Lucida Grande';">Let me
know if you think it was a bit too strong.
I will confess, I am losing my patience with
this lot. They spend gobs of money gadding
around trying to nullify end user rights.
Totally ignore us. Ought to be ashamed of
themselves.</span></span><br class="">
</p>
<p class=""><span class="size"><span class="font"
style="font-family: 'Lucida Grande';">Stephanie</span></span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</p>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2017-10-13 07:05,
Rafik Dammak wrote:<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="gmail_extra">hi,<br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">reminder for everyone
to review the letter and share comments.<br
class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">Best,<br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="">Rafik<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="">2017-10-11 4:28 GMT+09:00
Ayden Férdeline<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
dir="ltr" class=""><<a
href="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">icann@ferdeline.com</a>></span>:<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;">
<div class="">Also - I have now revised
this letter again taking into account
the helpful feedback that was received
over the past 48 hours; moving
forward, please feel free to edit the
document directly if you have any
changes you'd like to see made.
Thanks!<span class="HOEnZb"><span
class="colour" style="color:
rgb(136, 136, 136);"></span></span><br
class="">
</div>
<span class="HOEnZb"><span
class="colour" style="color:
rgb(136, 136, 136);">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div
class="m_2124695277728767332protonmail_signature_block">
<div
class="m_2124695277728767332protonmail_signature_block-user">
<div class="">Ayden <br class="">
</div>
</div>
<div
class="m_2124695277728767332protonmail_signature_block-proton
m_2124695277728767332protonmail_signature_block-empty"><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</span></span>
<blockquote type="cite"
class="m_2124695277728767332protonmail_quote"><span
class="">
<div class="">-------- Original
Message --------<br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Subject: Re: [NCSG-PC]
[Draft] Letter to ICANN re: BC and
IPC correspondence<br class="">
</div>
</span>
<div class="">
<div class="h5">
<div class="">Local Time: 10
October 2017 7:44 PM<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="">UTC Time: 10 October
2017 18:44<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="">From:<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">icann@ferdeline.com</a><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="">To: Rafik Dammak
<<a
href="mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">rafik.dammak@gmail.com</a>><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="">ncsg-pc <<a
href="mailto:ncsg-pc@lists.ncsg.is"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">ncsg-pc@lists.ncsg.is</a>><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Hi Rafik,<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">Thank you very
much for your comments.<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">It would be great
if we could finalise this
letter by Friday and perhaps
even send it out that day. I
very much welcome edits
directly to the Google Doc;
everyone on this list, please
help write it and shape its
contents!<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</div>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I would also like to
propose that we write a monthly
letter to ICANN on this topic
until May 2018, when enforcement
of the GDPR comes into effect.
That way we can document for the
data protection authorities that
we have been informing ICANN in
excess of six months of their
need to comply with this
regulation.<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">The feedback from
Nick Shorey on the PC call today
- that we need to help engineer
a conversation between the DPAs
and their GAC representatives -
is an interesting one, and one
which seemed to have support in
the chat. How would we go about
this, however? Do we write to
the GAC? Do we express this
desire to them in Abu Dhabi
during our face-to-face with
them?<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">Best wishes,<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Ayden <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</div>
</div>
<div
class="m_2124695277728767332protonmail_signature_block">
<div
class="m_2124695277728767332protonmail_signature_block-proton
m_2124695277728767332protonmail_signature_block-empty"><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<blockquote
class="m_2124695277728767332protonmail_quote"
type="cite">
<div class="">-------- Original
Message --------<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="">Subject: Re:
[NCSG-PC] [Draft] Letter to
ICANN re: BC and IPC
correspondence<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="">Local Time: 10
October 2017 5:33 AM<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="">UTC Time: 10
October 2017 04:33<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="">From:<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">rafik.dammak@gmail.com</a><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">To: Ayden
Férdeline <<a
href="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">icann@ferdeline.com</a>><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">ncsg-pc <<a
href="mailto:ncsg-pc@lists.ncsg.is"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">ncsg-pc@lists.ncsg.is</a>><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="gmail_extra">Hi
Ayden,<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">Thanks
for the draft,<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">it is
important we make a point to
voice our concerns and
influence the process. as we
discussed before here and on
the last call we got 2
problems 1- our
representatives in taskforce
not being informed 2- the
last Data protection
conference (that is already
passed)<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">for
the current letter, indeed
we should tweak the language
there ;) while we keep the
substance. reading IPC
letter, it seems they reject
the use case matrix and I
understood from previous
comments you think that
doesn't include our
perspective. I add few
comments but I think we can
add more, in particular, our
concerns in general
regarding the process and
not just responding to BC
and IPC requests.<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">I ask
other PC members to review
the letter and share their
thoughts. I put the GDPR as
a discussion item for today
call. We need a deadline to
get this done and prior to
Abud Dhabi meeting if we may
want to continue the
discussion there and
depending on how things go
with the cross-community
session. I propose that we
reach a new version by this
Friday.<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">Best,<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">Rafik <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="">2017-10-08
23:07 GMT+09:00 Ayden
Férdeline<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
dir="ltr" class=""><<a
href="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">icann@ferdeline.com</a>></span>:<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;">
<div class="">Hi,<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="">I have
drafted a letter to
ICANN in response to
the recent
correspondence
received from the BC
and the IPC.<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
rel="nofollow"
title="You can
read/edit it here."
href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/13ujYOpJFL0eNvjQCiNmsduFFbiUPQC5Wmbe9wHC2K6Q/edit?usp=sharing"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">You
can read/edit it
here.</a><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>I
know the language is
provocative
(intentionally so),
but this is a first
draft -- and if you
disapprove please
provide alternative
language.<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="">Best,
Ayden<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="">______________________________<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><wbr class="">_________________<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">NCSG-PC
mailing list<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</div>
<div class=""><a
href="mailto:NCSG-PC@lists.ncsg.is"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">NCSG-PC@lists.ncsg.is</a><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><a
rel="noreferrer"
href="https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/<wbr
class="">listinfo/ncsg-pc</a><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br
class="">
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<pre class="" wrap="">_______________________________________________
NCSG-PC mailing list
<a href="mailto:NCSG-PC@lists.ncsg.is" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" moz-do-not-send="true">NCSG-PC@lists.ncsg.is</a>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
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</div>
<span
id="cid:327D9086-845C-4C22-AD11-15E20B50308C@utdt.local"><Proposed
Letter - Chair Name.pdf></span><span
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
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font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
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-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display:
inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br
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start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
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