<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">I’ve been following the doc, it looks great. I would be much more mellow and diplomatic in the las paragraph, not threaten things, like going public with a campaign with data protection agencies. I think we shouldn’t promote agencies as policeman of ICANN, I understand we are waiving that in the event the multi-stakeholder model fails to include as as stakeholder, yet, I wouldn’t set that as precedent and I do not recommend to make it before the actual exclusion of the process happen, much less by by written official letter. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I do believe that we have to talk about alternative strategies, but not in a letter like this, is a very big threat with deep implication, I wouldn’t recommend to go with that nor sign it as official NCSG position. Reminder: ONLY ABOUT THE LAST PARAGRAPH, the rest looks amazing and I still think we should make clear the point we must be taken in account. Just take away the threat. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Cheers,</div><div class="">Martín</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Oct 13, 2017, at 6:42 PM, Ayden Férdeline <<a href="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com" class="">icann@ferdeline.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">Thanks Stephanie, I tend to agree. I have attached a copy of the letter which includes the Chair's name.<br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div class="protonmail_signature_block" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class="protonmail_signature_block-user"><div class="">Ayden <br class=""></div></div><div class="protonmail_signature_block-proton protonmail_signature_block-empty"><br class=""></div></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class="protonmail_quote" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class="">-------- Original Message --------<br class=""></div><div class="">Subject: Re: [NCSG-PC] [Draft] Letter to ICANN re: BC and IPC correspondence<br class=""></div><div class="">Local Time: 13 October 2017 10:33 PM<br class=""></div><div class="">UTC Time: 13 October 2017 21:33<br class=""></div><div class="">From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca" class="">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a><br class=""></div><div class="">To: Ayden Férdeline <<a href="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com" class="">icann@ferdeline.com</a>><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="mailto:ncsg-pc@lists.ncsg.is" class="">ncsg-pc@lists.ncsg.is</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:ncsg-pc@lists.ncsg.is" class="">ncsg-pc@lists.ncsg.is</a>><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><p class=""><span class="size"><span class="font" style="font-family: 'Lucida Grande';">It should be signed by the Chair on behalf of, in my view.</span></span><br class=""></p><p class=""><span class="size"><span class="font" style="font-family: 'Lucida Grande';">cheers Steph</span></span><br class=""></p><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2017-10-13 17:27, Ayden Férdeline wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">Hi all,<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I have done some final polishing to the letter, and have attached a proposed final draft. I hope we may be able to reach agreement soon on sending this letter. Also - I was wondering, should it carry a name, perhaps of the Chair, or is it okay to be signed 'NCSG'?<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="protonmail_signature_block"><div class="protonmail_signature_block-user"><div class="">Many thanks, Ayden <br class=""></div></div><div class="protonmail_signature_block-proton
protonmail_signature_block-empty"><br class=""></div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote class="protonmail_quote" type="cite"><div class="">-------- Original Message --------<br class=""></div><div class="">Subject: Re: [NCSG-PC] [Draft] Letter to ICANN re: BC and IPC correspondence<br class=""></div><div class="">Local Time: 13 October 2017 7:59 PM<br class=""></div><div class="">UTC Time: 13 October 2017 18:59<br class=""></div><div class="">From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com">icann@ferdeline.com</a><br class=""></div><div class="">To: Stephanie Perrin<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca"><stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca></a>,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ncsg-pc@lists.ncsg.is">ncsg-pc@lists.ncsg.is</a><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I think it is the perfect tone for this letter. As we saw in Hong Kong this month, our public silence is being manipulated and used to make the false claim that we are being consulted with and are an integral part of ICANN's efforts to comply with the GDPR, when we are not. Thanks for these edits Stephanie. We need to reshape the narrative and get it all documented. <br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class="">Ayden Férdeline<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="">Sent from ProtonMail Mobile<br class=""></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 7:14 pm, Stephanie Perrin <<a class="" href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div></div><blockquote type="cite" class="protonmail_quote"><p class=""><span class="size"><span class="font" style="font-family: 'Lucida Grande';">I jumped in today (apologies for being anonymous, always forget my google password) and made quite a few changes. I like the idea, but I think we should be a bit more specific. In terms of informing the DPAs....Swineheart is trying to get people to the IWGDPT meeting in Paris, I think everyone has been briefed at the data commissioners meeting in Hong kong (remember a whole crew from ICANN went) that there is a draft statement coming. So they know we have been briefing them for two years, we need to sharpen that a bit.</span></span><br class=""></p><p class=""><span class="size"><span class="font" style="font-family: 'Lucida Grande';">Let me know if you think it was a bit too strong. I will confess, I am losing my patience with this lot. They spend gobs of money gadding around trying to nullify end user rights. Totally ignore us. Ought to be ashamed of themselves.</span></span><br class=""></p><p class=""><span class="size"><span class="font" style="font-family: 'Lucida Grande';">Stephanie</span></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></p><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2017-10-13 07:05, Rafik Dammak wrote:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra">hi,<br class=""></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_extra">reminder for everyone to review the letter and share comments.<br class=""></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_extra">Best,<br class=""></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="">Rafik<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="">2017-10-11 4:28 GMT+09:00 Ayden Férdeline<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com" class="">icann@ferdeline.com</a>></span>:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;"><div class="">Also - I have now revised this letter again taking into account the helpful feedback that was received over the past 48 hours; moving forward, please feel free to edit the document directly if you have any changes you'd like to see made. Thanks!<span class="HOEnZb"><span class="colour" style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"></span></span><br class=""></div><span class="HOEnZb"><span class="colour" style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="m_2124695277728767332protonmail_signature_block"><div class="m_2124695277728767332protonmail_signature_block-user"><div class="">Ayden <br class=""></div></div><div class="m_2124695277728767332protonmail_signature_block-proton
m_2124695277728767332protonmail_signature_block-empty"><br class=""></div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></span></span><blockquote type="cite" class="m_2124695277728767332protonmail_quote"><span class=""><div class="">-------- Original Message --------<br class=""></div><div class="">Subject: Re: [NCSG-PC] [Draft] Letter to ICANN re: BC and IPC correspondence<br class=""></div></span><div class=""><div class="h5"><div class="">Local Time: 10 October 2017 7:44 PM<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="">UTC Time: 10 October 2017 18:44<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="">From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com" class="">icann@ferdeline.com</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="">To: Rafik Dammak <<a href="mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com" class="">rafik.dammak@gmail.com</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="">ncsg-pc <<a href="mailto:ncsg-pc@lists.ncsg.is" class="">ncsg-pc@lists.ncsg.is</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Hi Rafik,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class="">Thank you very much for your comments.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It would be great if we could finalise this letter by Friday and perhaps even send it out that day. I very much welcome edits directly to the Google Doc; everyone on this list, please help write it and shape its contents!<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I would also like to propose that we write a monthly letter to ICANN on this topic until May 2018, when enforcement of the GDPR comes into effect. That way we can document for the data protection authorities that we have been informing ICANN in excess of six months of their need to comply with this regulation.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The feedback from Nick Shorey on the PC call today - that we need to help engineer a conversation between the DPAs and their GAC representatives - is an interesting one, and one which seemed to have support in the chat. How would we go about this, however? Do we write to the GAC? Do we express this desire to them in Abu Dhabi during our face-to-face with them?<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class="">Best wishes,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Ayden <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div></div><div class="m_2124695277728767332protonmail_signature_block"><div class="m_2124695277728767332protonmail_signature_block-proton
m_2124695277728767332protonmail_signature_block-empty"><br class=""></div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote class="m_2124695277728767332protonmail_quote" type="cite"><div class="">-------- Original Message --------<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="">Subject: Re: [NCSG-PC] [Draft] Letter to ICANN re: BC and IPC correspondence<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="">Local Time: 10 October 2017 5:33 AM<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="">UTC Time: 10 October 2017 04:33<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="">From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com" class="">rafik.dammak@gmail.com</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="">To: Ayden Férdeline <<a href="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com" class="">icann@ferdeline.com</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="">ncsg-pc <<a href="mailto:ncsg-pc@lists.ncsg.is" class="">ncsg-pc@lists.ncsg.is</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra">Hi Ayden,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_extra">Thanks for the draft,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_extra">it is important we make a point to voice our concerns and influence the process. as we discussed before here and on the last call we got 2 problems 1- our representatives in taskforce not being informed 2- the last Data protection conference (that is already passed)<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_extra">for the current letter, indeed we should tweak the language there ;) while we keep the substance. reading IPC letter, it seems they reject the use case matrix and I understood from previous comments you think that doesn't include our perspective. I add few comments but I think we can add more, in particular, our concerns in general regarding the process and not just responding to BC and IPC requests.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_extra">I ask other PC members to review the letter and share their thoughts. I put the GDPR as a discussion item for today call. We need a deadline to get this done and prior to Abud Dhabi meeting if we may want to continue the discussion there and depending on how things go with the cross-community session. I propose that we reach a new version by this Friday.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_extra">Best,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_extra">Rafik <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="">2017-10-08 23:07 GMT+09:00 Ayden Férdeline<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com" class="">icann@ferdeline.com</a>></span>:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;"><div class="">Hi,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I have drafted a letter to ICANN in response to the recent correspondence received from the BC and the IPC.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" title="You can
read/edit it here." href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/13ujYOpJFL0eNvjQCiNmsduFFbiUPQC5Wmbe9wHC2K6Q/edit?usp=sharing" class="">You can read/edit it here.</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>I know the language is provocative (intentionally so), but this is a first draft -- and if you disapprove please provide alternative language.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Best, Ayden<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">______________________________<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><wbr class="">_________________<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="">NCSG-PC mailing list<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="mailto:NCSG-PC@lists.ncsg.is" class="">NCSG-PC@lists.ncsg.is</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class=""><a rel="noreferrer" href="https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc" class="">https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/<wbr class="">listinfo/ncsg-pc</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div></blockquote></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><pre wrap="" class="">_______________________________________________
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<br class=""></pre></blockquote></blockquote></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div></blockquote></blockquote><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><span id="cid:327D9086-845C-4C22-AD11-15E20B50308C@utdt.local"><Proposed Letter - Chair Name.pdf></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">NCSG-PC mailing list</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="mailto:NCSG-PC@lists.ncsg.is" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">NCSG-PC@lists.ncsg.is</a><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">https://lists.ncsg.is/mailman/listinfo/ncsg-pc</a></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>