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    <p>Stephanie, what are the slots on Monday (and perhaps Tuesday)
      that we should be attending to cheer loudly for the Data
      Protection Commissioners, you and Peter Kimpian of the Council of
      Europe?  Can't wait to be at these events!<br>
    </p>
    <p>Best and tx, Kathy<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/22/2017 1:30 PM, Stephanie Perrin
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:5ac7edb3-7f9c-0dab-10e3-829ad15bc09a@mail.utoronto.ca"
      type="cite">
      <meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
      <p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">I was just contacted
            by the Data Protection Officer for Europol (who happens to
            be an old colleague, I saw her in Brussels).  She is
            interested in attending the Copenhagen meeting, and I took
            the liberty of inviting her to come and speak to us....she
            gave me the manual for the data protection officers in
            Europol, and it would be great to hear what law enforcement
            is <i>supposed</i> to be doing to protect data.....</font></font></p>
      <p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">I dont think I have
            quite talked her into coming yet but there is definitely
            interest...</font></font></p>
      <p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">cheers Steph</font></font><br>
      </p>
      <br>
      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2017-02-18 01:07, Stephanie Perrin
        wrote:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote
        cite="mid:c5610dd9-5423-4a83-e5de-1267a24ae2e3@mail.utoronto.ca"
        type="cite">
        <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
          charset=utf-8">
        <p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">unfortunately,
              commissioners are not going to stay till Wednesday, it is
              all getting crammed into Monday.  best we could do would
              be something first thing Tuesday.....</font></font></p>
        <p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">I think Chuck has
              got some time in there somehow.....can remember when but
              will find it and send to the list</font></font></p>
        <p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">SP</font></font><br>
        </p>
        <br>
        <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2017-02-17 19:26, Ayden
          Férdeline wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote
cite="mid:K8yFPQ3f3gQlKPnYS2ytom_cTCcfttRYEs4p46emmFazPqElBedQ6EUejqjRyhNcHGCSijrHvV0UGHNxEaa6FTeAh6QYAbsreNuHIJp7ZU0=@ferdeline.com"
          type="cite">
          <div>If I understand correctly, the Commissioners are visiting
            us on the Wednesday? In that case, for maximum attendance,
            it might be best if our session was from 1:45pm to 3:00pm.
            But I do not know what the rest of their day looks like.
            Thanks again for organising this.<br>
          </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Ayden <br>
          </div>
          <div class="protonmail_signature_block ">
            <div class="protonmail_signature_block-proton
              protonmail_signature_block-empty"><br>
            </div>
          </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <blockquote type="cite" class="protonmail_quote">
            <div>-------- Original Message --------<br>
            </div>
            <div>Subject: Re: [NCSG-PC] Fwd: Re: ICANN58 Data Protection
              Session Planning<br>
            </div>
            <div>Local Time: 15 February 2017 9:38 PM<br>
            </div>
            <div>UTC Time: 15 February 2017 21:38<br>
            </div>
            <div>From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a><br>
            </div>
            <div>To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                href="mailto:ncsg-pc@lists.ncsg.is">ncsg-pc@lists.ncsg.is</a><br>
            </div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div> <br>
            </div>
            <p><span class="size" style="font-size:undefinedpx"><span
                  class="font" style="font-family:Lucida Grande">you are
                  right, it is on Saturday</span></span><br>
            </p>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2017-02-15 12:33, Ayden
              Férdeline wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <div>
                <div>Hi Stephanie,<br>
                </div>
                <div> <br>
                </div>
                <div> I don't see an RDS meeting scheduled for the
                  Wednesday? Perhaps it is on the schedule under a
                  different name, or perhaps I have just missed it?
                  (Here is a link to the <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener"
title="http://lists.ncuc.org/pipermail/ncuc-discuss/attachments/20170214/01a86592/attachment.pdf"
href="http://lists.ncuc.org/pipermail/ncuc-discuss/attachments/20170214/01a86592/attachment.pdf">tentative
                    schedule</a>.)<br>
                </div>
                <div> <br>
                </div>
                <div> Best wishes,<br>
                </div>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div class="protonmail_signature_block ">
                <div class="protonmail_signature_block-user ">
                  <div>Ayden  <br>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <div class="protonmail_signature_block-proton
                  protonmail_signature_block-empty"><br>
                </div>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <blockquote class="protonmail_quote" type="cite">
                <div>-------- Original Message --------<br>
                </div>
                <div>Subject: Re: [NCSG-PC] Fwd: Re: ICANN58 Data
                  Protection Session Planning<br>
                </div>
                <div>Local Time: 15 February 2017 11:55 AM<br>
                </div>
                <div>UTC Time: 15 February 2017 11:55<br>
                </div>
                <div>From: <a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="noreferrer
                    nofollow noopener" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                    href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a><br>
                </div>
                <div>To: Rafik Dammak <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener"
                    class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                    href="mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com"><rafik.dammak@gmail.com></a><br>
                </div>
                <div>ncsg-pc <a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="noreferrer
                    nofollow noopener" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                    href="mailto:ncsg-pc@lists.ncsg.is"><ncsg-pc@lists.ncsg.is></a><br>
                </div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <p><span style="font-size:undefinedpx" class="size"><span
                      class="font" style="font-family:"Lucida
                      Grande"">Ok so Maryam got back to me.  THey
                      forgot it.  (how Convenient).  So do we have a
                      preferred timeslot?  I will ask Peter....</span></span><br>
                </p>
                <p><span style="font-size:undefinedpx" class="size"><span
                      class="font" style="font-family:"Lucida
                      Grande"">Steph</span></span><br>
                </p>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2017-02-15 00:28, Rafik
                  Dammak wrote:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div dir="ltr">
                    <div class="gmail_extra">Hi Stephanie,<br>
                    </div>
                    <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div class="gmail_extra">I think what Farzaneh
                      wanted to highlight is that NCSG made a meeting
                      request for NCSG-DPA session but you are saying
                      that DPA will go to RDS session instead?<br>
                    </div>
                    <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div class="gmail_extra">Best,<br>
                    </div>
                    <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div class="gmail_extra">
                      <div>Rafik<br>
                      </div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div class="gmail_quote">
                        <div>2017-02-15 14:12 GMT+09:00 Stephanie Perrin
                          <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca" rel="noreferrer nofollow
                              noopener">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a>></span>:<br>
                        </div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote style="margin:0 0 0
                          .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                          solid;padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
                          <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
                            <p><span style="font-size:undefinedpx"
                                class="size"><span class="font"
                                  style="font-family:"Lucida
                                  Grande"">Wednesday is still our
                                  day alone to use as we see fit.  Chuck
                                  is trying to get Mr Cannatucci to
                                  attend our RDS meeting on Wednesday.,
                                  I will forward that thread to you as
                                  well.  All the other sessions are
                                  monday</span></span><br>
                            </p>
                            <div>
                              <div class="h5">
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div
                                  class="m_-9038760910269525731moz-cite-prefix">On
                                  2017-02-14 23:59, farzaneh badii
                                  wrote:<br>
                                </div>
                                <blockquote type="cite">
                                  <div dir="ltr">
                                    <div
                                      style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Hi
                                      Stephanie,<br>
                                    </div>
                                    <div
                                      style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
                                    </div>
                                    <div
                                      style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">We
                                      both asked Maryam to follow up on
                                      NCSG session with the UN special
                                      rapp. I think would be helpful
                                      that Tapani also follows up since
                                      it's an NCSG request and we still
                                      don't see it on the schedule. Did
                                      I interpret it wrong that you said
                                      Chuck was planning to turn that
                                      into a GNSO meeting. Is the
                                      wednesday session only NCSG
                                      meeting wtih the UN rapp?<br>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="gmail_extra">
                                    <div><br>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <div
                                        data-smartmail="gmail_signature"
class="m_-9038760910269525731gmail_signature">
                                        <div dir="ltr">
                                          <div><span class="font"
                                              style="font-family:verdana,
                                              sans-serif">Farzaneh</span><br>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                    <div><br>
                                    </div>
                                    <div class="gmail_quote">
                                      <div>On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 11:23
                                        PM, Stephanie Perrin <span
                                          dir="ltr"><<a
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                                            href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca"
                                            rel="noreferrer nofollow
                                            noopener">stephanie.perrin@mail.<wbr>utoronto.ca</a>></span>
                                        wrote:<br>
                                      </div>
                                      <div><br>
                                      </div>
                                      <blockquote style="margin:0 0 0
                                        .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                                        solid;padding-left:1ex"
                                        class="gmail_quote">
                                        <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
                                          <p><span
                                              style="font-size:undefinedpx"
                                              class="size"><span
                                                class="font"
                                                style="font-family:"Lucida
                                                Grande"">What
                                                happened is this:</span></span><br>
                                          </p>
                                          <ul>
                                            <li><span
                                                style="font-size:undefinedpx"
                                                class="size"><span
                                                  class="font"
                                                  style="font-family:"Lucida
                                                  Grande"">GAC was
                                                  asked to sponsor,
                                                  never got it done</span></span><br>
                                            </li>
                                            <li><span
                                                style="font-size:undefinedpx"
                                                class="size"><span
                                                  class="font"
                                                  style="font-family:"Lucida
                                                  Grande"">GNSO was
                                                  asked to sponsor,
                                                  proposed instead to
                                                  replace a lapsed HIT
                                                  with this panel</span></span><br>
                                            </li>
                                            <li><span
                                                style="font-size:undefinedpx"
                                                class="size"><span
                                                  class="font"
                                                  style="font-family:"Lucida
                                                  Grande"">Invitations
                                                  went out for the
                                                  opening day of the
                                                  conference (they had
                                                  to, these are busy
                                                  guys) </span></span><br>
                                            </li>
                                            <li><span
                                                style="font-size:undefinedpx"
                                                class="size"><span
                                                  class="font"
                                                  style="font-family:"Lucida
                                                  Grande"">IPC
                                                  weighed in demanding
                                                  balanced HIT style
                                                  panels (Victoria
                                                  sheckler their person
                                                  on this)</span></span><br>
                                            </li>
                                            <li><span
                                                style="font-size:undefinedpx"
                                                class="size"><span
                                                  class="font"
                                                  style="font-family:"Lucida
                                                  Grande"">Side
                                                  meetings have
                                                  apparently been
                                                  arranged</span></span><br>
                                            </li>
                                            <li><span
                                                style="font-size:undefinedpx"
                                                class="size"><span
                                                  class="font"
                                                  style="font-family:"Lucida
                                                  Grande"">only guy
                                                  available for our
                                                  meeting on Wednesday
                                                  is UN Special
                                                  Rapporteur for privacy
                                                  (grateful for this,
                                                  this is a big deal and
                                                  I am trying to get his
                                                  latest book read prior
                                                  to the event </span></span><br>
                                            </li>
                                          </ul>
                                          <p><span
                                              style="font-size:undefinedpx"
                                              class="size"><span
                                                class="font"
                                                style="font-family:"Lucida
                                                Grande"">Last
                                                version I saw of the
                                                schedule we did not have
                                                a session.  You were
                                                checking on that.  Chuck
                                                Gomes was asking for
                                                time for the PDP on RDS
                                                but Monday is only day,
                                                he is trying for 8 am
                                                breakfast meeting.</span></span><br>
                                          </p>
                                          <p><span
                                              style="font-size:undefinedpx"
                                              class="size"><span
                                                class="font"
                                                style="font-family:"Lucida
                                                Grande"">cheers
                                                Steph</span></span><br>
                                          </p>
                                          <div>
                                            <div
                                              class="m_-9038760910269525731h5">
                                              <p><br>
                                              </p>
                                              <div><br>
                                              </div>
                                              <div
                                                class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116moz-cite-prefix">On
                                                2017-02-14 23:09,
                                                farzaneh badii wrote:<br>
                                              </div>
                                              <blockquote type="cite">
                                                <div dir="ltr">
                                                  <div
                                                    style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Hi
                                                    Stephanie,<br>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div
                                                    style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div><span
                                                      class="font"
                                                      style="font-family:verdana,
                                                      sans-serif">Can
                                                      you clarify
                                                      something for me?
                                                      Is this the
                                                      Cross- Community Discussion wi<wbr>th
Data Protection Commissioners?<wbr> </span><br>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div><span
                                                      class="font"
                                                      style="font-family:verdana,
                                                      sans-serif"></span><br>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div><span
                                                      class="font"
                                                      style="font-family:verdana,
                                                      sans-serif">If so,
                                                      didn't we also
                                                      submit a session
                                                      request ( NCSG
                                                      request)? Did that
                                                      turn into the
                                                      above session?
                                                      Where did this
                                                      session come from
                                                      and where is NCSG
                                                      session?</span><br>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div><span
                                                      class="font"
                                                      style="font-family:verdana,
                                                      sans-serif"></span><br>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                                <div class="gmail_extra">
                                                  <div><br>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <div
                                                      data-smartmail="gmail_signature"
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116gmail_signature">
                                                      <div dir="ltr">
                                                        <div><span
                                                          class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,
                                                          sans-serif">Farzaneh</span><br>
                                                        </div>
                                                      </div>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div><br>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div
                                                    class="gmail_quote">
                                                    <div>On Tue, Feb 14,
                                                      2017 at 10:43 PM,
                                                      Stephanie Perrin <span
                                                        dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca"
                                                          rel="noreferrer
                                                          nofollow
                                                          noopener">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoront<wbr>o.ca</a>></span>
                                                      wrote:<br>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div><br>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      style="margin:0 0
                                                      0
                                                      .8ex;border-left:1px
                                                      #ccc
                                                      solid;padding-left:1ex"
class="gmail_quote">
                                                      <div
                                                        bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
                                                        <p>I am biting
                                                          my tongue on
                                                          this.  As some
                                                          of you heard, 
                                                          I raised this
                                                          with Goran.  I
                                                          am tempted to
                                                          just slide it
                                                          along to him. 
                                                          With of course
                                                          a mention of
                                                          how the GAC
                                                          and ICANN
                                                          staff sat on
                                                          this from
                                                          Hyderabad
                                                          until mid
                                                          January.<br>
                                                        </p>
                                                        <p>Suggestions
                                                          welcome. 
                                                          Pissed off, am
                                                          I. <br>
                                                        </p>
                                                        <p>Steph<br>
                                                        </p>
                                                        <div
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587moz-forward-container">
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>--------
                                                          Forwarded
                                                          Message
                                                          --------<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <table
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587moz-email-headers-table"
                                                          border="0"
                                                          cellpadding="0"
cellspacing="0">
                                                          <tbody>
                                                          <tr>
                                                          <th
                                                          align="RIGHT"
nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Subject:<br>
                                                          </th>
                                                          <td>Re:
                                                          ICANN58 Data
                                                          Protection
                                                          Session
                                                          Planning<br>
                                                          </td>
                                                          </tr>
                                                          <tr>
                                                          <th
                                                          align="RIGHT"
nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Date:<br>
                                                          </th>
                                                          <td>Tue, 14
                                                          Feb 2017
                                                          21:52:54 -0500<br>
                                                          </td>
                                                          </tr>
                                                          <tr>
                                                          <th
                                                          align="RIGHT"
nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">From:<br>
                                                          </th>
                                                          <td>Greg
                                                          Shatan <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener"><gregshatanipc@gmail.com></a><br>
                                                          </td>
                                                          </tr>
                                                          <tr>
                                                          <th
                                                          align="RIGHT"
nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">To:<br>
                                                          </th>
                                                          <td>KIMPIAN
                                                          Peter <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Peter.KIMPIAN@coe.int"
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener"><Peter.KIMPIAN@coe.int></a><br>
                                                          </td>
                                                          </tr>
                                                          <tr>
                                                          <th
                                                          align="RIGHT"
nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">CC:<br>
                                                          </th>
                                                          <td>Victoria
                                                          Sheckler <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vsheckler@riaa.com"
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener"><vsheckler@riaa.com></a>, James
                                                          M. Bladel <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:jbladel@godaddy.com"
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener"><jbladel@godaddy.com></a>, <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:kathy@kathykleiman.com"
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener">kathy@kathykleiman.com</a> <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kathy@kathykleiman.com"
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener"><kathy@kathykleiman.com></a>, <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:donna.austin@neustar.biz"
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener">donna.austin@neustar.biz</a> <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:donna.austin@neustar.biz"
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener"><donna.austin@neustar.biz></a>,
                                                          <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:heather.forrest@acu.edu.au"
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener">heather.forrest@acu.edu.au</a> <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:heather.forrest@acu.edu.au"
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener"><heather.forrest@acu.edu.au></a>,
                                                          Stephanie
                                                          Perrin <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca"
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener"><stephanie.perrin@mail.utoront<wbr>o.ca></a>,
                                                          KWASNY Sophie
                                                          <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Sophie.KWASNY@coe.int"
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener"><Sophie.KWASNY@coe.int></a>,
                                                          Wilson,
                                                          Christopher <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:cwilson@21cf.com"
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener"><cwilson@21cf.com></a>, Tony
                                                          Holmes <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:tonyarholmes@btinternet.com"
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener"><tonyarholmes@btinternet.com></a><br>
                                                          </td>
                                                          </tr>
                                                          </tbody>
                                                          </table>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">All,<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,
                                                          sans-serif"><i>First,
                                                          apologies for
                                                          the length of
                                                          this message
                                                          and a tone
                                                          that is more
                                                          strident than
                                                          I intend it to
                                                          be.  Another
                                                          pass through
                                                          this email
                                                          could smooth
                                                          the rough
                                                          edges, but it
                                                          is 2:45 am in
                                                          Reykjavik and
                                                          I have a 7:15
                                                          breakfast
                                                          meeting, so my
                                                          capacity is
                                                          exhausted (and
                                                          so am I). 
                                                          Please read
                                                          this with a
                                                          friendly,
                                                          collegial tone
                                                          in mind and
                                                          indulge me
                                                           where I have
                                                          failed to have
                                                          the tone of
                                                          the text match
                                                          my desire to
                                                          be a good
                                                          working
                                                          partner (and
                                                          to "disagree
                                                          without being
                                                          disagreeable")
                                                          even where our
                                                          perspectives
                                                          may differ.
                                                           (As partial
                                                          explanation,
                                                          my sport of
                                                          choice in my
                                                          youth was
                                                          rugby ("a
                                                          ruffian's game
                                                          played by
                                                          gentlemen"),
                                                          while fencing
                                                          probably would
                                                          have been more
                                                          apropos....)</i></span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,
                                                          sans-serif"></span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,
                                                          sans-serif">I
                                                          am quite
                                                          concerned with
                                                          where we are
                                                          in this
                                                          discussion. 
                                                          There are
                                                          either some
                                                          substantial
                                                          misunderstandings
                                                          about what
                                                          this session,
                                                          as a "High
                                                          Interest
                                                          Topic", is
                                                          supposed to be
                                                          -- or there is
                                                          an apparent
                                                          intent to
                                                          exclude
                                                          perspectives
                                                          that will keep
                                                          this from
                                                          being a
                                                          celebration of
                                                          data
                                                          protection
                                                          principles.  I
                                                          hope it's the
                                                          former, but
                                                          even that is
                                                          unfortunate.</span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Perhaps
                                                          the root of
                                                          the problem is
                                                          combining the
                                                          original idea
                                                          for a
                                                          CoE-organized
                                                          presentation
                                                          with the High
                                                          Interest Topic
                                                          (HIT) concept
                                                          -- or perhaps
                                                          that just
                                                          highlighted
                                                          the inherent
                                                          problem with
                                                          the session. 
                                                          HIT doesn't
                                                          just refer to
                                                          a level of
                                                          interest --
                                                          it's supposed
                                                          to be a
                                                          community-generated
                                                          proposal that
                                                          is then
                                                          planned and
                                                          presented with
multistakeholder participation (and <u>not</u> merely by the proposing
organization).  One of the problems we had with the last round of HITs
                                                          was a proposal
                                                          for a HIT
                                                          session to be
                                                          planned and
                                                          presented by a
                                                          single part of
                                                          the community,
                                                          largely
                                                          consisting of
                                                          a presentation
                                                          by one of its
                                                          members and
                                                          only minor
                                                          roles for any
                                                          sector not
                                                          sympathetic to
                                                          the views of
                                                          this member
                                                          and community
                                                          group.  This
                                                          was
                                                          inconsistent
                                                          with the idea
                                                          that the
                                                          proposing
                                                          organization
                                                          does not
                                                          control the
                                                          content of a
                                                          HIT session. 
                                                          Fortunately,
                                                          the original
                                                          planners
                                                          agreed to to
                                                          expand to a
                                                          more diverse
                                                          planning team,
                                                          with the
                                                          result being a
                                                          more diverse
                                                          panel and a
                                                          very lively
                                                          and
                                                          well-received
                                                          session.  When
                                                          community
                                                          leaders got on
                                                          the phone to
                                                          consider this
                                                          round of HITs,
                                                          we wanted to
                                                          avoid a replay
                                                          of this
                                                          situation
                                                          (although it
                                                          ended well
                                                          enough).<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">When
                                                          this data
                                                          protection
                                                          session was
                                                          brought to the
                                                          community
                                                          leaders group
                                                          as a late
                                                          suggestion for
                                                          one of the HIT
                                                          slots, I was
                                                          concerned we
                                                          might be
                                                          heading for a
                                                          replay, so the
                                                          IPC specified
                                                          that one of
                                                          our members
                                                          (Vicky) should
                                                          be added to
                                                          the planning
                                                          group (knowing
                                                          that at least
                                                          one other
                                                          constituency
                                                          shared very
                                                          similar
                                                          concerns).
                                                          Unlike the
                                                          last time,
                                                          where we were
                                                          able to get a
                                                          hand on the
                                                          tiller and
                                                          help turn the
                                                          ship, I've
                                                          found our
                                                          attempts to be
                                                          largely
                                                          rebuffed. 
                                                          This has been
                                                          increasingly
                                                          frustrating.<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I'd
                                                          like to
                                                          respond to
                                                          some of the
                                                          specific
                                                          statements on
                                                          this thread
                                                          since I last
                                                          had an
                                                          opportunity to
                                                          respond:<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="gmail_extra">
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="gmail_quote">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">Vicky
                                                          wrote: <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><span class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:calibri,
                                                          sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="size"
                                                          style="font-size:11pt">I
                                                          don’t see here
                                                          (but I am also
                                                          sleep
                                                          deprived)
                                                          which panelist
                                                          will represent
                                                          public safety
                                                          / transparency
                                                          / enforcement
                                                          concerns.</span></span></span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="gmail_quote"><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><span class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:calibri,
                                                          sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="size"
                                                          style="font-size:11pt"></span></span></span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <p style=""
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:rgb(80, 0, 80)"><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(31,
                                                          73, 125)"><span
                                                          class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:calibri,
                                                          sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="size"
                                                          style="font-size:11pt"></span></span></span></span><br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="gmail_quote">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline"><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">Peter
                                                          responded: <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><span class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:calibri,
                                                          sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="size"
                                                          style="font-size:11pt">Uuhhh,
                                                          if you are in
                                                          US it is quite
                                                          early for
                                                          you…in my
                                                          sense usually
                                                          the
                                                          governments
                                                          are
                                                          responsible
                                                          and
                                                          accountable
                                                          for the issues
                                                          you mentioned,
                                                          therefore it
                                                          seemed to me
                                                          logical that
                                                          those issues
                                                          will be taken
                                                          care by a
                                                          representative
                                                          of the GAC.
                                                          Besides that,
                                                          the PSWG is a
                                                          sub-group of
                                                          the GAC which
                                                          is
                                                          deliberately
                                                          discussing
                                                          those issues
                                                          you mentioned…</span></span></span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="gmail_quote"><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><span class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:calibri,
                                                          sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="size"
                                                          style="font-size:11pt"></span></span></span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="gmail_quote"><span
                                                          class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:calibri,
                                                          sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline"><span
                                                          class="size"
                                                          style="font-size:11pt"></span>Greg:
                                                          This misses
                                                          the point of
                                                          Vicky's
                                                          question and
                                                          perhaps misses
                                                          a fundamental
                                                          point about
                                                          ICANN -- that
                                                          it is a
                                                          multistakeholder
                                                          organization
                                                          and <i>not</i> a
                                                          multilateral
                                                          organization. 
                                                          Governments
                                                          are not the
                                                          only ones
                                                          concerned with
                                                          investigation
                                                          and
                                                          enforcement --
                                                          there are also
                                                          significant
                                                          parts of the
                                                          private sector
                                                          deeply engaged
                                                          in
                                                          investigation
                                                          and
                                                          enforcement
                                                          (and not to
                                                          put too fine a
                                                          point on it,
                                                          but IPC (my
                                                          group and
                                                          Vicky's group)
                                                          represents one
                                                          of those parts
                                                          of the private
                                                          sector).  As
                                                          such, at least
                                                          one voice from
                                                          these parts of
                                                          the private
                                                          sector should
                                                          be present on
                                                          the panel. 
                                                          Even within
                                                          governments,
                                                          there are
                                                          parts that
                                                          deal with
                                                          public safety
                                                          and
                                                          enforcement. 
                                                          The idea that
                                                          a
                                                          representative
                                                          of the GAC
                                                          will provide
                                                          this
                                                          perspective
                                                          seems
                                                          mistaken.  As
                                                          fine a chair
                                                          as the GAC
                                                          chair is, I
                                                          don't believe
                                                          this is his
                                                          perspective,
                                                          and the
                                                          suggestion
                                                          this would be
                                                          within his
                                                          brief seemed
                                                          based more on
                                                          protocol than
                                                          practicality. 
                                                          As revealed in
                                                          this thread,
                                                          Ms.
                                                          Bauer-Bulst is
                                                          the co-chair
                                                          of the PSWG,
                                                          so would be
                                                          more on point
                                                          for this
                                                          perspective
                                                          (though
                                                          apparently she
                                                          is not
                                                          sufficiently
                                                          august to
                                                          appear on the
                                                          panel, even if
                                                          she is a
                                                          Deputy Head of
                                                          Unit, and not
                                                          merely a Team
                                                          Leader as was
                                                          stated earlier
                                                          in this
                                                          exchange).<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </span></span></div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="gmail_quote">
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Peter
                                                          replied to
                                                          James Bladel
                                                          in red below:<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote
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                                                          lang="EN-GB">
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                                                          <div
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587gmail-m_-6066402398364144317gmail-m_-4559061870864558269gmail-h5">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div
style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt
                                                          solid
                                                          rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt
                                                          0cm 0cm">
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> <br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal">Thanks,
                                                          Peter.  Looks
                                                          like I did
                                                          miss this at
                                                          some point, so
                                                          please accept
                                                          my apologies
                                                          for the
                                                          confusion.<br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> <br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal">Generally,
                                                          I"m ok with
                                                          this, but a
                                                          few thoughts:<br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> <br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal">*
                                                          I'm not sure
                                                          what
                                                          "sponsored" by
                                                          the GNSO means
                                                          in this
                                                          context. 
                                                          Maybe we could
                                                          say something
                                                          like
                                                          "convened" or
                                                          "supported"
                                                          jointly by the
                                                          GNSO &
                                                          GAC?<span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"> </span><span class="colour"
                                                          style="color:red"><span
                                                          class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:wingdings">à</span>
                                                          this
                                                          expression was
                                                          used by ICANN
                                                          staff but I
                                                          can only agree
                                                          that those you
                                                          suggested are
                                                          much better.</span><br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg:
                                                          From my point
                                                          of view, this
                                                          support is
                                                          predicated on
                                                          the panel
                                                          representing
                                                          multiple
                                                          perspectives.<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote
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                                                          <div>
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                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                          class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,
                                                          sans-serif"></span><br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          <blockquote
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                                                          <div>
                                                          <div
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587gmail-m_-6066402398364144317gmail-m_-4559061870864558269gmail-h5">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:red"></span><br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> <br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal">*
                                                          I think we
                                                          need to keep
                                                          the number
                                                          panelists to
                                                          an absolute
                                                          minimum.<span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"> </span><span class="colour"
                                                          style="color:red"><span
                                                          class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:wingdings">à</span>
                                                          I agree. 3+3
                                                          should be the
                                                          maximum (!).</span>
                                                           If we strive
                                                          to represent
                                                          all seven GNSO
                                                          SG/Cs, plus
                                                          GAC, plus
                                                          COE/DPAs, then
                                                          this session
                                                          runs the risk
                                                          of becoming
                                                          "Death by
                                                          PowerPoint"
                                                          and dosn't
                                                          leave much
                                                          time for
                                                          Q&A.  To
                                                          that end, I
                                                          will let
                                                          Graeme know
                                                          that we are
                                                          looking for a
                                                          RrSG panelist,
                                                          but would
                                                          encourage them
                                                          to reach out
                                                          to Jim Galvin
                                                          and see if he
                                                          is comfortable
                                                          representing
                                                          industry
                                                          generally. Or
                                                          if we need
                                                          another CPH
                                                          person that
                                                          can wear both
                                                          "hats."<span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"> </span> <span class="colour"
                                                          style="color:red"><span
                                                          class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:wingdings">à</span>
                                                          not
                                                          necessarily as
                                                          Jim could
                                                          represent it
                                                          quite well, I
                                                          am sure.
                                                          (Being said
                                                          that we would
                                                          have preferred
                                                          more focus on
                                                          the industry
                                                          itself and to
                                                          the different
                                                          players as
                                                          they are the
                                                          first level
                                                          data
                                                          controllers.
                                                          All NCPH and
                                                          GAC related
                                                          groups are
                                                          secondary
                                                          only) But if
                                                          the internal
                                                          dynamic of
                                                          GNSO is as
                                                          such, be it,
                                                          but in this
                                                          case we
                                                          suggest Becky
                                                          Burr to be on
                                                          the panel (and
                                                          not being
                                                          moderator).</span><br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg:
                                                          ICANN and the
                                                          GNSO are not
                                                          merely about
                                                          "the
                                                          industry." If
                                                          you wanted an
                                                          industry
                                                          facing program
                                                          or a dialogue
                                                          only with "the
                                                          industry", the
                                                          appropriate
                                                          place for that
                                                          would be the
                                                          GDD (Global
                                                          Domains
                                                          Division)
                                                          Summit.  As
                                                          the President
                                                          of an "NCPH
                                                          related group"
                                                          I can assure
                                                          you that our
                                                          concerns about
                                                          data
                                                          protection and
                                                          privacy are
                                                          not
                                                          "secondary" --
                                                          at least not
                                                          to us and our
                                                          stakeholder
                                                          community. 
                                                          This further
                                                          shows the
                                                          problem of
                                                          "perspectives"
                                                          as this panel
                                                          is being
                                                          planned.<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote
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                                                          <div>
                                                          <div
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                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:red"></span><br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> <br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal">*
                                                          Similarly, I
                                                          think the NCPH
                                                          should strive
                                                          for ~2
                                                          panelists. 
                                                          Again, I
                                                          apologize if
                                                          the
                                                          discussions
                                                          were already
                                                          headed in this
                                                          direction, as
                                                          I have lost
                                                          track of the
                                                          names proposed
                                                          in this
                                                          thread.<span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"> </span><span class="colour"
                                                          style="color:red"><span
                                                          class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:wingdings">à</span>
                                                          I really think
                                                          that if CPH
                                                          has one
                                                          panellist NCPH
                                                          should also
                                                          has to have 1
                                                          only because
                                                          of the
                                                          arguments
                                                          expressed
                                                          above.</span><br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><span class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:calibri,
                                                          sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="size"
                                                          style="font-size:11pt"> </span></span></span><br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg:
                                                          Peter, you may
                                                          not know it
                                                          (or perhaps
                                                          you may) but
                                                          the NCPH is an
                                                          umbrella over
                                                          two parts of
                                                          the GNSO --
                                                          the Commercial
                                                          Stakeholder
                                                          Group and the
                                                          Non-Commercial
                                                          Stakeholder
                                                          Group.  There
                                                          is no valid
                                                          way that a
                                                          single
                                                          panelist could
                                                          provide the
                                                          sharply
                                                          different
                                                          perspectives
                                                          of these two
                                                          stakeholder
                                                          groups.  Even
                                                          having a
                                                          single
                                                          panelist
                                                          representative
                                                          the different
                                                          perspectives
                                                          of IP
                                                          stakeholders,
                                                          ISPs and
                                                          Connectivity
                                                          Providers, and
                                                          the business
                                                          user community
                                                          is a stretch
                                                          (which
                                                          hopefully
                                                          would be
                                                          mitigated by
                                                          Q&A).  I
                                                          would say that
                                                          if only
                                                          panelist came
                                                          from the NCPH,
                                                          they should
                                                          come from the
                                                          CSG, as we
                                                          would offer a
                                                          more
                                                          distinguishable
                                                          perspective,
                                                          but frankly
                                                          that would be
                                                          unfair to the
                                                          Non-Commercial
                                                          side of the
                                                          house (which
                                                          itself
                                                          includes a
                                                          range of
                                                          viewpoints),
                                                          and I don't
                                                          want to be
                                                          unfair to the
                                                          NCSG and its
                                                          constituencies
                                                          either.<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote
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                                                          <div>
                                                          <div
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                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><span class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:calibri,
                                                          sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="size"
                                                          style="font-size:11pt"></span></span></span><br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:red"><span class="font" style="font-family:wingdings">à</span>
                                                          Therefore our
                                                          suggestion for
                                                          the panel:
                                                          Becky Burr,
                                                          Thomas
                                                          Schneider, Jim
                                                          Galvin</span><br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg:
                                                          This neatly
                                                          includes the
                                                          contracted
                                                          parties
                                                          (Registries
                                                          and
                                                          Registrars)
                                                          and excluded
                                                          the commercial
                                                          private sector
                                                          represented in
                                                          the NCPH. 
                                                          This is not
                                                          acceptable.
                                                           (Which is why
                                                          James, as
                                                          Chair of the
                                                          GNSO, wisely
                                                          suggested 2
                                                          panelists from
                                                          the NCPH.)<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">This
                                                          description
                                                          was provided
                                                          by Peter:<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote
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                                                          lang="EN-GB">
                                                          <div
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587gmail-m_-6066402398364144317gmail-m_-4559061870864558269gmail-m_4485284271700414672WordSection1">
                                                          <div
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587gmail-m_-6066402398364144317gmail-m_-4559061870864558269gmail-h5">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:red"> </span><br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="text-align:justify;text-indent:35.4pt"
class="MsoNormal"><span class="font" style="font-family:arial,
                                                          sans-serif">A
                                                          community-wide
                                                          event will be
                                                          organised on
                                                          13 March 2017
                                                          under the form
                                                          of a High
                                                          Interest Topic
                                                          “sponsored” by
                                                          the Generic
                                                          Names
                                                          Supporting
                                                          Organization
                                                          (GNSO) Council
                                                          (and possibly
                                                          by the
                                                          Governmental
                                                          Advisory
                                                          Committee
                                                          (GAC) as well)
                                                          which will
                                                          enable the
                                                          participation
                                                          of interested
                                                          ICANN
                                                          communities.</span><br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg:
                                                          We are an
                                                          interested
                                                          ICANN
                                                          community and
                                                          we have been
                                                          seeking to
                                                          participate
                                                          and/or to have
                                                          participation
                                                          from the
                                                          enforcement/cybercrime/infring<wbr>ement
                                                          side of the
                                                          roster.  So
                                                          far with no
                                                          success.<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          style="margin:0px
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class="gmail_quote">
                                                          <div
                                                          lang="EN-GB">
                                                          <div
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587gmail-m_-6066402398364144317gmail-m_-4559061870864558269gmail-m_4485284271700414672WordSection1">
                                                          <div
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587gmail-m_-6066402398364144317gmail-m_-4559061870864558269gmail-h5">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="text-align:justify;text-indent:35.4pt"
class="MsoNormal"><span class="font" style="font-family:arial,
                                                          sans-serif">The
                                                          session could
                                                          be jointly
                                                          opened by the
                                                          CEO of ICANN
                                                          Board and the
                                                          Director of
                                                          Information
                                                          Society and
                                                          Action against
                                                          Crime of the
                                                          Council of
                                                          Europe. During
                                                          the session
                                                          the United
                                                          Nations’
                                                          Special
                                                          Rapporteur on
                                                          the right to
                                                          privacy, the
                                                          co-Chair of
                                                          the Article 29
                                                          Working Group
                                                          and the
                                                          European Data
                                                          Protection
                                                          Supervisor
                                                          together with
                                                          high level
                                                          representatives
                                                          of registries’
                                                          group, the
                                                          registrars’
                                                          group and the
                                                          GAC will
                                                          address in 10
                                                          minutes each
                                                          the above
                                                          mentioned
                                                          topics. During
                                                          the session
                                                          the
                                                          involvement of
                                                          the audience
                                                          will be
                                                          guaranteed by
                                                          an open mike
                                                          slot.</span><br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><span class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:calibri,
                                                          sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="size"
                                                          style="font-size:11pt"> </span></span></span><br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><span class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:calibri,
                                                          sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="size"
                                                          style="font-size:11pt">I
                                                          think during
                                                          the last days,
                                                          weeks we have
                                                          reached an
                                                          agreement on
                                                          Ms Becky Burr
                                                          moderating the
                                                          panel and
                                                          having James
                                                          Galvin as
                                                          representative
                                                          for
                                                          registries’
                                                          group (both
                                                          seemed to
                                                          agree on
                                                          that). If we
                                                          follow this
                                                          logic we would
                                                          need one
                                                          representative
                                                          from the GAC
                                                          and one from
                                                          registrars’
                                                          group. (We
                                                          previously</span></span></span><br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">P<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>suggested
                                                          that the chair
                                                          of these
                                                          communities
                                                          could be
                                                          invited to
                                                          speak under
                                                          these two
                                                          slots).<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">Greg: Not to sound like a broken record, but
                                                          this emphasis
                                                          on including
                                                          the contracted
                                                          parties to the
                                                          exclusion of
                                                          the
                                                          non-contracted
                                                          parties really
                                                          runs counter
                                                          to
                                                          multistakeholder
                                                          sensibilities.</span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)"></span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">If the emphasis is on "high level
                                                          representatives"
                                                          and "chairs" I
                                                          would be
                                                          willing to
                                                          join the panel
                                                          as the chair
                                                          of my
                                                          community,
                                                          though we may
                                                          have better
                                                          candidates on
                                                          substance
                                                          (including
                                                          Vicky, who is
                                                          our vice
                                                          chair).</span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote
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                                                          lang="EN-GB">
                                                          <div
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                                                          <div
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587gmail-m_-6066402398364144317gmail-m_-4559061870864558269gmail-h5">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><span class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:calibri,
                                                          sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="size"
                                                          style="font-size:11pt"> </span></span></span><br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">In
                                                          response to my
                                                          email asking
                                                          what her goals
                                                          for the panel
                                                          were (and
                                                          which stated
                                                          much of what
                                                          I've restated
                                                          above),
                                                          Stephanie
                                                          Perrin wrote:
                                                          <span>Peter
                                                          and the COE
                                                          are organizing
                                                          this.  I will
                                                          let them
                                                          explain the
                                                          goals.  In my
                                                          personal
                                                          view....data
                                                          protection
                                                          commissioners
                                                          are not
                                                          present at
                                                          ICANN.  The
                                                          dialogue has
                                                          been anything
                                                          but robust,
                                                          although they
                                                          have been
                                                          attempting to
                                                          engage for
                                                          many many
                                                          years.</span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span></span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div><span
                                                          class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:arial,
                                                          helvetica,
                                                          sans-serif">Vicky
                                                          responded:</span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal">It
                                                          is clear we
                                                          need
                                                          additional
                                                          perspectives
                                                          to make this a
                                                          robust panel. 
                                                          I think james
                                                          is a good
                                                          addition and
                                                           we also need
                                                          someone with
                                                          Cathrin's
                                                          perspective,<br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal">Greg:
                                                          We still need
                                                          that
                                                          perspective.<br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Peter
                                                          responded with
                                                          COE's goals:<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:arial,
                                                          sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="size"
                                                          style="font-size:16px">The
                                                          panellists
                                                          will be
                                                          invited to
                                                          exchange views
                                                          on the privacy
                                                          and data
                                                          protection
                                                          implications
                                                          of processing
                                                          of WHOIS data,
                                                          third party
                                                          access to
                                                          personal data
                                                          and the issue
                                                          of
                                                          accountability
                                                          for the
                                                          processing of
                                                          personal data.
                                                          The expected
                                                          outcome of the
                                                          event is a
                                                          better mutual
                                                          understanding
                                                          of the
                                                          underlying
                                                          questions
                                                          related to the
                                                          protection of
                                                          privacy and
                                                          personal data
                                                          and the
                                                          strengthening
                                                          of an open and
                                                          inclusive
                                                          dialogue on
                                                          these issues,
                                                          to be carried
                                                          on anytime
                                                          deemed
                                                          necessary.</span></span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg:
                                                          We are among
                                                          those "third
                                                          parties" and
                                                          we are seeking
                                                          to be included
                                                          in an open and
                                                          inclusive
                                                          dialogue, and
                                                          to include the
                                                          perspective of
                                                          government as
                                                          among those
                                                          "third
                                                          parties" as
                                                          well.  I'm not
                                                          sure why this
                                                          has become
                                                          quite so
                                                          difficult.<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Prior
                                                          to that Peter
                                                          wrote: <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><span class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:calibri,
                                                          sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="size"
                                                          style="font-size:11pt"></span></span></span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><span class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:calibri,
                                                          sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="size"
                                                          style="font-size:11pt">I
                                                          really don’t
                                                          want to hurt
                                                          anybody
                                                          personally, I
                                                          find this
                                                          exchange of
                                                          mails rather
                                                          odd
                                                          [discussion of
                                                          the importance
                                                          of EDPS,
                                                          correction of
                                                          Ms.
                                                          Bauer-Bulst's
characterization of the EDPS as a "body that advises,"  and the relative
                                                          ranks of
                                                          various
                                                          potential
                                                          panelists
                                                          removed for
                                                          space]</span></span></span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><span class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:calibri,
                                                          sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="size"
                                                          style="font-size:11pt"></span></span></span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div><span
                                                          class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,
                                                          sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">Greg: I'm not sure why you find this exchange
                                                          of emails
                                                          "rather odd",
                                                          but perhaps it
                                                          traces back to
                                                          the mismatch
                                                          between a
                                                          community-planned
                                                          HIT and a
                                                          panel planned
                                                          by the CoE. 
                                                          These emails
                                                          are our
                                                          attempts at
                                                          community
                                                          planning --
                                                          again an
                                                          essentially
                                                          multistakeholder
                                                          effort.</span></span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">In
                                                          response to
                                                          Stephanie's
                                                          question to me
                                                          "Who would you
                                                          propose?"
                                                          (responding to
                                                          my view that
                                                          we needed a
                                                          panel that
                                                          represented
                                                          multiple
                                                          perspectives),
                                                          Peter wrote:<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:arial,
                                                          sans-serif"></span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:arial,
                                                          sans-serif">I
                                                          think we all
                                                          are on the
                                                          same
                                                          page...therefore
                                                          I suggest to
                                                          include Becky
                                                          Burr to this
                                                          panel. She was
                                                          recommended by
                                                          other
                                                          constituencies
                                                          as well so if
                                                          you agree we
                                                          can move
                                                          along.</span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:arial,
                                                          sans-serif"></span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div><span
                                                          class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,
                                                          sans-serif">Greg:
                                                          I respect
                                                          Becky
                                                          immensely and
                                                          already said
                                                          she was a
                                                          great choice
                                                          on many
                                                          counts.  Yet,
                                                          the response
                                                          above misses
                                                          my point --
                                                          that we need
                                                          perspectives
                                                          beyond data
                                                          protection
                                                          officials and
                                                          "the
                                                          industry."</span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote
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                                                          lang="EN-GB">
                                                          <div
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587gmail-m_-6066402398364144317gmail-m_-4559061870864558269gmail-m_4485284271700414672WordSection1">
                                                          <div
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587gmail-m_-6066402398364144317gmail-m_-4559061870864558269gmail-h5">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin-left:36pt"
class="MsoNormal"> <br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Any
                                                          more would be
                                                          piling on, but
                                                          I wanted to
                                                          note just a
                                                          couple more
                                                          things.  One
                                                          was Peter's
                                                          suggestion
                                                          that <i
style="text-align:justify;text-indent:35.4pt;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:black">The current state of preparation would imply the
                                                          following
                                                          meetings</span></i><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:black"><span class="font" style="font-family:arial,
                                                          sans-serif">-</span><span
                                                          class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:calibri,
                                                          sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="size"
                                                          style="font-size:7pt">      </span></span></span><i
style="text-align:justify;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:black">a session with the GAC plenary,</span></i><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:black"><span class="font" style="font-family:arial,
                                                          sans-serif">-</span><span
                                                          class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:calibri,
                                                          sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="size"
                                                          style="font-size:7pt">      </span></span></span><i
style="text-align:justify;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:black">a working lunch with the Board,</span></i><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:black"><span class="font" style="font-family:arial,
                                                          sans-serif">-</span><span
                                                          class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:calibri,
                                                          sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="size"
                                                          style="font-size:7pt">      </span></span></span><i
style="text-align:justify;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:black">community wide afternoon session possibly in the
                                                          format of an
                                                          “High Interest
                                                          Topic”.</span></i><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:black"><span class="font" style="font-family:arial,
                                                          sans-serif">-</span><span
                                                          class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:calibri,
                                                          sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="size"
                                                          style="font-size:7pt">      </span></span></span><i
style="text-align:justify;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:black">alternatively or subsequently a joint meeting with
                                                          GNSO Council
                                                          and ccNSO
                                                          Council </span></i><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:black"><span class="font" style="font-family:arial,
                                                          sans-serif">-</span><span
                                                          class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:calibri,
                                                          sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="size"
                                                          style="font-size:7pt">      </span></span></span><i
style="text-align:justify;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:black">bilateral meetings with NSCG, NCUC and ALAC</span></i><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><i
style="text-align:justify;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:black"></span></i><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg:
                                                          I would
                                                          suggest that a
                                                          bilateral
                                                          meeting with
                                                          the CSG (and
                                                          not merely
                                                          with the more
                                                          <i>simpatico</i>
                                                          community
                                                          groups) should
                                                          be considered,
                                                          to say the
                                                          least.  We
                                                          would be
                                                          honored to
                                                          have such a
                                                          meeting (and
                                                          we don't
                                                          bite).<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Peter
                                                          wrote, in
                                                          response to
                                                          Vicky:<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><span class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:calibri,
                                                          sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="size"
                                                          style="font-size:11pt">Separately,
                                                          please note I
                                                          anticipate
                                                          having some
                                                          additional
                                                          suggestions
                                                          for
                                                          consideration
                                                          for this panel
                                                          by the end of
                                                          next week. </span></span></span><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:red"><span class="font" style="font-family:wingdings"><span
                                                          class="size"
                                                          style="font-size:11pt">à</span></span><span
                                                          class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:calibri,
                                                          sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="size"
                                                          style="font-size:11pt">Please
                                                          do so, but you
                                                          have to
                                                          understand
                                                          that it is
                                                          rather strange
                                                          that 1 month
                                                          away of the
                                                          event we don’t
                                                          know who the
                                                          speakers would
                                                          be. We have
                                                          also made
                                                          suggestions
                                                          which we
                                                          believe enjoy
                                                          the support of
                                                          many in GNSO
                                                          (and beyond)
                                                          fellows and
                                                          follows the
                                                          idea of
                                                          multi-stakeholderism
                                                          and cover the
                                                          main issues
                                                          Victoria
                                                          suggested us
                                                          to take into
                                                          account
                                                          including
                                                          third party
                                                          access to
                                                          data. I would
                                                          recommend to
                                                          consider those
                                                          and come back
                                                          to us as
                                                          quickly as you
                                                          can…</span></span></span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:red"><span class="font" style="font-family:calibri,
                                                          sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="size"
                                                          style="font-size:11pt"></span></span></span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div><span
                                                          class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,
                                                          sans-serif"><span
                                                          class="colour"
style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">Greg: Given that this session was only
                                                          suggested as a
                                                          High Interest
                                                          Topic on
                                                          January 23,
                                                          it's not so
                                                          strange that
                                                          we have not
                                                          finalized the
                                                          speakers
                                                          list.  We
                                                          began
                                                          discussing the
                                                          other HIT
                                                          sessions quite
                                                          a bit
                                                          earlier.  That
                                                          said, the
                                                          sooner we can
                                                          bring the
                                                          necessary
                                                          people with
                                                          the necessary
                                                          perspectives
                                                          and the
                                                          necessary
                                                          protocol-sensitive
                                                          rank
                                                          (apologies for
                                                          our
                                                          insensitivity
                                                          to protocol
                                                          concerns; I
                                                          guess
                                                          Americans
                                                          don't do well
                                                          with rank, and
                                                          one of the
                                                          refreshing
                                                          aspects of the
                                                          ICANN milieu
                                                          is that rank
                                                          is generally
                                                          absent from
                                                          our
                                                          considerations).</span></span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div><span
                                                          class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,
                                                          sans-serif"></span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div><span
                                                          class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,
                                                          sans-serif">I
                                                          will once
                                                          again
                                                          emphasize that
                                                          GNSO is itself
                                                          a
                                                          multistakeholder
                                                          organization
                                                          so having "the
                                                          support of
                                                          many in GNSO"
                                                          does not mean
                                                          that your
                                                          suggestions
                                                          have the
                                                          support of our
                                                          part of the
                                                          GNSO (hence,
                                                          our attempts
                                                          since late
                                                          last month). 
                                                          Leaving out
                                                          the commercial
                                                          sector does
                                                          not quite
                                                          follow the
                                                          idea of
                                                          multistakeholderism....</span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div><span
                                                          class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,
                                                          sans-serif"></span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div><span
                                                          class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,
                                                          sans-serif">I
                                                          would love
                                                          nothing more
                                                          for us to
                                                          resolve this
                                                          to our
                                                          collective and
                                                          individual
                                                          satisfaction
                                                          and move on. 
                                                          I look forward
                                                          to doing so.</span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div><span
                                                          class="font"
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,
                                                          sans-serif"></span><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>Best
                                                          Regards,<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>Greg
                                                          Shatan<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>President<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>Intellectual
                                                          Property
                                                          Constituency<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
                                                          </div>
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                                                          </div>
                                                        </div>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div><br>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div>NCSG-PC
                                                        mailing list<br>
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                          </div>
                          <div><br>
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                          <div>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
                          </div>
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                    </div>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
              </blockquote>
              <div><br>
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