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<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">We don't have a time
slot yet, he is waiting for me to confirm that we have the
slot before he invites them all to the wednesday events. RDS
PDP already has a face to face meeting that day, David C would
know what time that is....CHuck merely asked if whoever was
still around could join that meeting. THere is a call for
volunteers to dream up questions for that PDP. I have already
volunteered just in case this gets thrown together hastily,
but if anyone else wants to volunteer I will step aside.</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">SP</font></font><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2017-02-15 00:28, Rafik Dammak
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAH5sThknne09OYGbW4Fsocava_rAsx_EBZeeAzxzEtkyLLXjCA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">Hi Stephanie,</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">I think what Farzaneh wanted to
highlight is that NCSG made a meeting request for NCSG-DPA
session but you are saying that DPA will go to RDS session
instead?</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">Best,</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">Rafik<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2017-02-15 14:12 GMT+09:00 Stephanie
Perrin <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca"
target="_blank">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">Wednesday
is still our day alone to use as we see fit.
Chuck is trying to get Mr Cannatucci to attend our
RDS meeting on Wednesday., I will forward that
thread to you as well. All the other sessions are
monday</font></font><br>
</p>
<div>
<div class="h5"> <br>
<div class="m_-9038760910269525731moz-cite-prefix">On
2017-02-14 23:59, farzaneh badii wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Hi
Stephanie,</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">We
both asked Maryam to follow up on NCSG session
with the UN special rapp. I think would be
helpful that Tapani also follows up since it's
an NCSG request and we still don't see it on
the schedule. Did I interpret it wrong that
you said Chuck was planning to turn that into
a GNSO meeting. Is the wednesday session only
NCSG meeting wtih the UN rapp?</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div
class="m_-9038760910269525731gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><font face="verdana, sans-serif">Farzaneh
</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at
11:23 PM, Stephanie Perrin <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca"
target="_blank">stephanie.perrin@mail.<wbr>utoronto.ca</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida
Grande">What happened is this:</font></font></p>
<ul>
<li><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida
Grande">GAC was asked to sponsor,
never got it done</font></font></li>
<li><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida
Grande">GNSO was asked to sponsor,
proposed instead to replace a
lapsed HIT with this panel</font></font></li>
<li><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida
Grande">Invitations went out for
the opening day of the conference
(they had to, these are busy guys)
<br>
</font></font></li>
<li><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida
Grande">IPC weighed in demanding
balanced HIT style panels
(Victoria sheckler their person on
this)<br>
</font></font></li>
<li><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida
Grande">Side meetings have
apparently been arranged</font></font></li>
<li><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida
Grande">only guy available for our
meeting on Wednesday is UN Special
Rapporteur for privacy (grateful
for this, this is a big deal and I
am trying to get his latest book
read prior to the event </font></font></li>
</ul>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida
Grande">Last version I saw of the
schedule we did not have a session.
You were checking on that. Chuck
Gomes was asking for time for the
PDP on RDS but Monday is only day,
he is trying for 8 am breakfast
meeting.</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida
Grande">cheers Steph<br>
</font></font></p>
<div>
<div class="m_-9038760910269525731h5">
<p><br>
</p>
<br>
<div
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116moz-cite-prefix">On
2017-02-14 23:09, farzaneh badii
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Hi
Stephanie,</div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div><span
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Can
you clarify something for me?
Is this the </span><font
face="verdana, sans-serif">Cross- </font><font
face="verdana, sans-serif">Community </font><span
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Discussion </span><span
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">wi<wbr>th
Data </span><span
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Protection </span><span
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Commissioners</span><span
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">?<wbr> </span></div>
<div><span
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">If
so, didn't we also submit a
session request ( NCSG
request)? Did that turn into
the above session? Where did
this session come from and
where is NCSG session?</span></div>
<div><span
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br
clear="all">
<div>
<div
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><font face="verdana,
sans-serif">Farzaneh </font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue,
Feb 14, 2017 at 10:43 PM,
Stephanie Perrin <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca"
target="_blank">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoront<wbr>o.ca</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
text="#000000">
<p>I am biting my tongue on
this. As some of you
heard, I raised this with
Goran. I am tempted to
just slide it along to
him. With of course a
mention of how the GAC and
ICANN staff sat on this
from Hyderabad until mid
January.</p>
<p>Suggestions welcome.
Pissed off, am I. <br>
</p>
<p>Steph<br>
</p>
<div
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587moz-forward-container"><br>
<br>
-------- Forwarded Message
--------
<table
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587moz-email-headers-table"
border="0"
cellpadding="0"
cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT"
nowrap="nowrap"
valign="BASELINE">Subject:
</th>
<td>Re: ICANN58 Data
Protection Session
Planning</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT"
nowrap="nowrap"
valign="BASELINE">Date:
</th>
<td>Tue, 14 Feb 2017
21:52:54 -0500</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT"
nowrap="nowrap"
valign="BASELINE">From:
</th>
<td>Greg Shatan <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank"><gregshatanipc@gmail.com></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT"
nowrap="nowrap"
valign="BASELINE">To:
</th>
<td>KIMPIAN Peter <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:Peter.KIMPIAN@coe.int" target="_blank"><Peter.KIMPIAN@coe.int></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT"
nowrap="nowrap"
valign="BASELINE">CC:
</th>
<td>Victoria
Sheckler <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:vsheckler@riaa.com" target="_blank"><vsheckler@riaa.com></a>,
James M. Bladel <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:jbladel@godaddy.com" target="_blank"><jbladel@godaddy.com></a>,
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:kathy@kathykleiman.com" target="_blank">kathy@kathykleiman.com</a>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:kathy@kathykleiman.com" target="_blank"><kathy@kathykleiman.com></a>,
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:donna.austin@neustar.biz" target="_blank">donna.austin@neustar.biz</a>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:donna.austin@neustar.biz" target="_blank"><donna.austin@neustar.biz></a>,
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:heather.forrest@acu.edu.au" target="_blank">heather.forrest@acu.edu.au</a>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:heather.forrest@acu.edu.au" target="_blank"><heather.forrest@acu.edu.au></a>,
Stephanie Perrin <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca" target="_blank"><stephanie.perrin@mail.utoront<wbr>o.ca></a>,
KWASNY Sophie <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:Sophie.KWASNY@coe.int" target="_blank"><Sophie.KWASNY@coe.int></a>,
Wilson,
Christopher <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:cwilson@21cf.com" target="_blank"><cwilson@21cf.com></a>,
Tony Holmes <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:tonyarholmes@btinternet.com" target="_blank"><tonyarholmes@btinternet.com></a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">All,</div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">
<div
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><font
face="verdana,
sans-serif"><i>First,
apologies for
the length of
this message and
a tone that is
more strident
than I intend it
to be. Another
pass through
this email could
smooth the rough
edges, but it is
2:45 am in
Reykjavik and I
have a 7:15
breakfast
meeting, so my
capacity is
exhausted (and
so am I).
Please read this
with a friendly,
collegial tone
in mind and
indulge me
where I have
failed to have
the tone of the
text match my
desire to be a
good working
partner (and to
"disagree
without being
disagreeable")
even where our
perspectives may
differ. (As
partial
explanation, my
sport of choice
in my youth was
rugby ("a
ruffian's game
played by
gentlemen"),
while fencing
probably would
have been more
apropos....)</i></font></div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><font
face="verdana,
sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I am quite concerned with where
we are in this
discussion. There
are either some
substantial
misunderstandings
about what this
session, as a
"High Interest
Topic", is
supposed to be --
or there is an
apparent intent to
exclude
perspectives that
will keep this
from being a
celebration of
data protection
principles. I
hope it's the
former, but even
that is
unfortunate.</span><br>
</div>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Perhaps
the root of the
problem is combining
the original idea for
a CoE-organized
presentation with the
High Interest Topic
(HIT) concept -- or
perhaps that just
highlighted the
inherent problem with
the session. HIT
doesn't just refer to
a level of interest --
it's supposed to be a
community-generated
proposal that is then
planned and presented
with multistakeholder
participation (and <u>not</u> merely
by the proposing
organization). One of
the problems we had
with the last round of
HITs was a proposal
for a HIT session to
be planned and
presented by a single
part of the community,
largely consisting of
a presentation by one
of its members and
only minor roles for
any sector not
sympathetic to the
views of this member
and community group.
This was inconsistent
with the idea that the
proposing organization
does not control the
content of a HIT
session. Fortunately,
the original planners
agreed to to expand to
a more diverse
planning team, with
the result being a
more diverse panel and
a very lively and
well-received
session. When
community leaders got
on the phone to
consider this round of
HITs, we wanted to
avoid a replay of this
situation (although it
ended well enough).</div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">When
this data protection
session was brought to
the community leaders
group as a late
suggestion for one of
the HIT slots, I was
concerned we might be
heading for a replay,
so the IPC specified
that one of our
members (Vicky) should
be added to the
planning group
(knowing that at least
one other constituency
shared very similar
concerns). Unlike the
last time, where we
were able to get a
hand on the tiller and
help turn the ship,
I've found our
attempts to be largely
rebuffed. This has
been increasingly
frustrating.</div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I'd
like to respond to
some of the specific
statements on this
thread since I last
had an opportunity to
respond:</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br
clear="all">
<div
class="gmail_quote">
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">Vicky
wrote: </div>
<span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">I
don’t see here
(but I am also
sleep deprived)
which panelist
will represent
public safety /
transparency /
enforcement
concerns.</span></div>
<div
class="gmail_quote"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><br>
</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<div
class="gmail_quote">
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline"></div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">Peter
responded: </div>
<span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Uuhhh,
if you are in US
it is quite early
for you…in my
sense usually the
governments are
responsible and
accountable for
the issues you
mentioned,
therefore it
seemed to me
logical that those
issues will be
taken care by a
representative of
the GAC. Besides
that, the PSWG is
a sub-group of the
GAC which is
deliberately
discussing those
issues you
mentioned…</span></div>
<div
class="gmail_quote"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><br>
</span></div>
<div
class="gmail_quote"><span
style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif"><font color="#000000">
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline"><span
style="font-size:11pt"></span>Greg: This misses the point of Vicky's
question and
perhaps misses
a fundamental
point about
ICANN -- that
it is a
multistakeholder
organization
and <i>not</i> a
multilateral
organization.
Governments
are not the
only ones
concerned with
investigation
and
enforcement --
there are also
significant
parts of the
private sector
deeply engaged
in
investigation
and
enforcement
(and not to
put too fine a
point on it,
but IPC (my
group and
Vicky's group)
represents one
of those parts
of the private
sector). As
such, at least
one voice from
these parts of
the private
sector should
be present on
the panel.
Even within
governments,
there are
parts that
deal with
public safety
and
enforcement.
The idea that
a
representative
of the GAC
will provide
this
perspective
seems
mistaken. As
fine a chair
as the GAC
chair is, I
don't believe
this is his
perspective,
and the
suggestion
this would be
within his
brief seemed
based more on
protocol than
practicality.
As revealed in
this thread,
Ms.
Bauer-Bulst is
the co-chair
of the PSWG,
so would be
more on point
for this
perspective
(though
apparently she
is not
sufficiently
august to
appear on the
panel, even if
she is a
Deputy Head of
Unit, and not
merely a Team
Leader as was
stated earlier
in this
exchange).</div>
</font></span></div>
<div
class="gmail_quote">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Peter
replied to James
Bladel in red
below:</div>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"></div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px
0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px
solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-GB">
<div
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587gmail-m_-6066402398364144317gmail-m_-4559061870864558269gmail-m_4485284271700414672WordSection1">
<div
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587gmail-m_-6066402398364144317gmail-m_-4559061870864558269gmail-h5">
<div>
<div
style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt
solid
rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt
0cm 0cm">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> <br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
<div
id="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587gmail-m_-6066402398364144317gmail-m_-4559061870864558269gmail-m_4485284271700414672compose">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Thanks,
Peter. Looks
like I did
miss this at
some point, so
please accept
my apologies
for the
confusion.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Generally,
I"m ok with
this, but a
few thoughts:</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">*
I'm not sure
what
"sponsored" by
the GNSO means
in this
context.
Maybe we could
say something
like
"convened" or
"supported"
jointly by the
GNSO &
GAC?<span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">
</span><span
style="font-family:wingdings;color:red">à</span><span
style="color:red"> this expression was used by ICANN staff but I can
only agree
that those you
suggested are
much better.<br>
</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg:
From my point of
view, this support
is predicated on
the panel
representing
multiple
perspectives.</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px
0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px
solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-GB">
<div
class="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587gmail-m_-6066402398364144317gmail-m_-4559061870864558269gmail-m_4485284271700414672WordSection1">
<div>
<div
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style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"></span></p>
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<div
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<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:red"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">*
I think we
need to keep
the number
panelists to
an absolute
minimum.<span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><span
style="font-family:wingdings;color:red">à</span><span
style="color:red"> I agree. 3+3 should be the maximum (!).</span> If we
strive to
represent all
seven GNSO
SG/Cs, plus
GAC, plus
COE/DPAs, then
this session
runs the risk
of becoming
"Death by
PowerPoint"
and dosn't
leave much
time for
Q&A. To
that end, I
will let
Graeme know
that we are
looking for a
RrSG panelist,
but would
encourage them
to reach out
to Jim Galvin
and see if he
is comfortable
representing
industry
generally. Or
if we need
another CPH
person that
can wear both
"hats."<span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">
</span> <span
style="font-family:wingdings;color:red">à</span><span style="color:red">
not
necessarily as
Jim could
represent it
quite well, I
am sure.
(Being said
that we would
have preferred
more focus on
the industry
itself and to
the different
players as
they are the
first level
data
controllers.
All NCPH and
GAC related
groups are
secondary
only) But if
the internal
dynamic of
GNSO is as
such, be it,
but in this
case we
suggest Becky
Burr to be on
the panel (and
not being
moderator).</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg:
ICANN and the
GNSO are not
merely about "the
industry." If you
wanted an industry
facing program or
a dialogue only
with "the
industry", the
appropriate place
for that would be
the GDD (Global
Domains Division)
Summit. As the
President of an
"NCPH related
group" I can
assure you that
our concerns about
data protection
and privacy are
not "secondary" --
at least not to us
and our
stakeholder
community. This
further shows the
problem of
"perspectives" as
this panel is
being planned.</div>
<blockquote
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<div>
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<div
id="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587gmail-m_-6066402398364144317gmail-m_-4559061870864558269gmail-m_4485284271700414672compose">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:red"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">*
Similarly, I
think the NCPH
should strive
for ~2
panelists.
Again, I
apologize if
the
discussions
were already
headed in this
direction, as
I have lost
track of the
names proposed
in this
thread.<span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">
</span><span
style="font-family:wingdings;color:red">à</span><span
style="color:red"> I really think that if CPH has one panellist NCPH
should also
has to have 1
only because
of the
arguments
expressed
above.</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg:
Peter, you may not
know it (or
perhaps you may)
but the NCPH is an
umbrella over two
parts of the GNSO
-- the Commercial
Stakeholder Group
and the
Non-Commercial
Stakeholder
Group. There is
no valid way that
a single panelist
could provide the
sharply different
perspectives of
these two
stakeholder
groups. Even
having a single
panelist
representative the
different
perspectives of IP
stakeholders, ISPs
and Connectivity
Providers, and
the business user
community is a
stretch (which
hopefully would be
mitigated by
Q&A). I would
say that if only
panelist came from
the NCPH, they
should come from
the CSG, as we
would offer a more
distinguishable
perspective, but
frankly that would
be unfair to the
Non-Commercial
side of the house
(which itself
includes a range
of viewpoints),
and I don't want
to be unfair to
the NCSG and its
constituencies
either.</div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
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<div
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<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:wingdings;color:red">à</span><span style="color:red">
Therefore our
suggestion for
the panel:
Becky Burr,
Thomas
Schneider, Jim
Galvin </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg:
This neatly
includes the
contracted parties
(Registries and
Registrars) and
excluded the
commercial private
sector represented
in the NCPH. This
is not acceptable.
(Which is why
James, as Chair of
the GNSO, wisely
suggested 2
panelists from the
NCPH.)</div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">This
description was
provided by Peter:</div>
<blockquote
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<div
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<div
id="m_-9038760910269525731m_-1196239896132014116m_-3173739836713035587gmail-m_-6066402398364144317gmail-m_-4559061870864558269gmail-m_4485284271700414672compose">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:red"> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify;text-indent:35.4pt"><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">A
community-wide
event will be
organised on
13 March 2017
under the form
of a High
Interest Topic
“sponsored” by
the Generic
Names
Supporting
Organization
(GNSO) Council
(and possibly
by the
Governmental
Advisory
Committee
(GAC) as well)
which will
enable the
participation
of interested
ICANN
communities. </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg:
We are an
interested ICANN
community and we
have been seeking
to participate
and/or to have
participation from
the
enforcement/cybercrime/infring<wbr>ement
side of the
roster. So far
with no success.</div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"></div>
<blockquote
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style="margin:0px
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<div lang="EN-GB">
<div
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<div
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<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify;text-indent:35.4pt"><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">The
session could
be jointly
opened by the
CEO of ICANN
Board and the
Director of
Information
Society and
Action against
Crime of the
Council of
Europe. During
the session
the United
Nations’
Special
Rapporteur on
the right to
privacy, the
co-Chair of
the Article 29
Working Group
and the
European Data
Protection
Supervisor
together with
high level
representatives
of registries’
group, the
registrars’
group and the
GAC will
address in 10
minutes each
the above
mentioned
topics. During
the session
the
involvement of
the audience
will be
guaranteed by
an open mike
slot.</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I
think during
the last days,
weeks we have
reached an
agreement on
Ms Becky Burr
moderating the
panel and
having James
Galvin as
representative
for
registries’
group (both
seemed to
agree on
that). If we
follow this
logic we would
need one
representative
from the GAC
and one from
registrars’
group. (We
previously </span></p>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">P</div>
suggested that
the chair of
these
communities
could be
invited to
speak under
these two
slots).</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><font
color="#000000">Greg:
Not to sound
like a broken
record, but this
emphasis on
including the
contracted
parties to the
exclusion of the
non-contracted
parties really
runs counter to
multistakeholder
sensibilities.</font></div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><font
color="#000000"><br>
</font></div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><font
color="#000000">If
the emphasis is
on "high level
representatives"
and "chairs" I
would be willing
to join the
panel as the
chair of my
community,
though we may
have better
candidates on
substance
(including
Vicky, who is
our vice
chair).<br>
</font></div>
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<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">In
response to my
email asking what
her goals for the
panel were (and
which stated much
of what I've
restated above),
Stephanie Perrin
wrote: <span>Peter
and the COE are
organizing
this. I will
let them explain
the goals. In
my personal
view....data
protection
commissioners
are not present
at ICANN. The
dialogue has
been anything
but robust,
although they
have been
attempting to
engage for many
many years.</span></div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span><br>
</span></div>
<div><font
face="arial,
helvetica,
sans-serif">Vicky
responded:</font></div>
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p
class="MsoNormal">It
is clear we
need
additional
perspectives
to make this a
robust panel.
I think james
is a good
addition and
we also need
someone with
Cathrin's
perspective,</p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><br>
</p>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Greg:
We still need
that
perspective.</p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Peter
responded with
COE's goals:</div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:16px;text-align:justify;text-indent:47.2px">The
panellists
will be
invited to
exchange views
on the privacy
and data
protection
implications
of processing
of WHOIS data,
third party
access to
personal data
and the issue
of
accountability
for the
processing of
personal data.
The expected
outcome of the
event is a
better mutual
understanding
of the
underlying
questions
related to the
protection of
privacy and
personal data
and the
strengthening
of an open and
inclusive
dialogue on
these issues,
to be carried
on anytime
deemed
necessary.</span></div>
<br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg:
We are among
those "third
parties" and we
are seeking to
be included in
an open and
inclusive
dialogue, and to
include the
perspective of
government as
among those
"third parties"
as well. I'm
not sure why
this has become
quite so
difficult.</div>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Prior
to that Peter
wrote: </div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><br>
</span></div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">I
really don’t
want to hurt
anybody
personally, I
find this
exchange of
mails rather odd
[discussion of
the importance
of EDPS,
correction of
Ms.
Bauer-Bulst's
characterization
of the EDPS as a
"body that
advises," and
the relative
ranks of various
potential
panelists
removed for
space]</span></div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><br>
</span></div>
<div><font
face="verdana,
sans-serif"
color="#000000">Greg:
I'm not sure why
you find this
exchange of
emails "rather
odd", but
perhaps it
traces back to
the mismatch
between a
community-planned
HIT and a panel
planned by the
CoE. These
emails are our
attempts at
community
planning --
again an
essentially
multistakeholder
effort.</font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">In
response to
Stephanie's
question to me
"Who would you
propose?"
(responding to my
view that we
needed a panel
that represented
multiple
perspectives),
Peter wrote:</div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">I think we all are on the same
page...therefore
I suggest to
include Becky
Burr to this
panel. She was
recommended by
other
constituencies
as well so if
you agree we can
move along.</span></div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div><font
face="verdana,
sans-serif">Greg:
I respect Becky
immensely and
already said she
was a great
choice on many
counts. Yet,
the response
above misses my
point -- that we
need
perspectives
beyond data
protection
officials and
"the industry."</font></div>
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<div>
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<div
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<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:36pt"> </p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Any
more would be
piling on, but I
wanted to note
just a couple more
things. One was
Peter's suggestion
that <i
style="text-align:justify;text-indent:35.4pt;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span
style="color:black">The current state of preparation would imply the
following
meetings</span></i><span
style="text-align:justify;font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:black">-</span><span
style="text-align:justify;font-size:7pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:black"> </span><i
style="text-align:justify;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span
style="color:black">a
session with
the GAC
plenary,</span></i><span
style="text-align:justify;font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:black">-</span><span
style="text-align:justify;font-size:7pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:black"> </span><i
style="text-align:justify;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span
style="color:black">a
working lunch
with the
Board,</span></i><span
style="text-align:justify;font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:black">-</span><span
style="text-align:justify;font-size:7pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:black"> </span><i
style="text-align:justify;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span
style="color:black">community
wide afternoon
session
possibly in
the format of
an “High
Interest
Topic”.</span></i><span
style="text-align:justify;font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:black">-</span><span
style="text-align:justify;font-size:7pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:black"> </span><i
style="text-align:justify;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span
style="color:black">alternatively
or
subsequently a
joint meeting
with GNSO
Council and
ccNSO Council </span></i><span
style="text-align:justify;font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:black">-</span><span
style="text-align:justify;font-size:7pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:black"> </span><i
style="text-align:justify;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span
style="color:black">bilateral
meetings with
NSCG, NCUC and
ALAC</span></i></div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><i
style="text-align:justify;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span
style="color:black"><br>
</span></i></div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg:
I would suggest
that a bilateral
meeting with the
CSG (and not
merely with the
more <i>simpatico</i>
community groups)
should be
considered, to say
the least. We
would be honored
to have such a
meeting (and we
don't bite).</div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Peter
wrote, in response
to Vicky:</div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"
lang="EN-US">Separately,
please note I
anticipate
having some
additional
suggestions for
consideration
for this panel
by the end of
next week.</span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:wingdings;color:red" lang="EN-US">à</span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:red"
lang="EN-US">Please
do so, but you
have to
understand that
it is rather
strange that 1
month away of
the event we
don’t know who
the speakers
would be. We
have also made
suggestions
which we believe
enjoy the
support of many
in GNSO (and
beyond) fellows
and follows the
idea of
multi-stakeholderism
and cover the
main issues
Victoria
suggested us to
take into
account
including third
party access to
data. I would
recommend to
consider those
and come back to
us as quickly as
you can…</span><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:red"
lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></div>
<div><font
face="verdana,
sans-serif"
color="#000000">Greg:
Given that this
session was only
suggested as a
High Interest
Topic on January
23, it's not so
strange that we
have not
finalized the
speakers list.
We began
discussing the
other HIT
sessions quite a
bit earlier.
That said, the
sooner we can
bring the
necessary people
with the
necessary
perspectives and
the necessary
protocol-sensitive
rank (apologies
for our
insensitivity to
protocol
concerns; I
guess Americans
don't do well
with rank, and
one of the
refreshing
aspects of the
ICANN milieu is
that rank is
generally absent
from our
considerations).</font></div>
<div><font
face="verdana,
sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font
face="verdana,
sans-serif">I
will once again
emphasize that
GNSO is itself a
multistakeholder
organization so
having "the
support of many
in GNSO" does
not mean that
your suggestions
have the support
of our part of
the GNSO (hence,
our attempts
since late last
month). Leaving
out the
commercial
sector does not
quite follow the
idea of
multistakeholderism....</font></div>
<div><font
face="verdana,
sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font
face="verdana,
sans-serif">I
would love
nothing more for
us to resolve
this to our
collective and
individual
satisfaction and
move on. I look
forward to doing
so.</font></div>
<div><font
face="verdana,
sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div>Best Regards,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Greg Shatan</div>
<div>President</div>
<div>Intellectual
Property
Constituency</div>
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